UnFairchild Shootout 2023!
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- Опубліковано 20 вер 2023
- This not an official episode but I though it might be interesting for you all! I do a comparison of the UnFairchild against all the new crop of Fairchild copies. There is lots of info about how the Fairchild circuit is recreated and you get to hear some cool Fairchild drum compression!!
even shady competition can't make EV go full tilt. What a legend.
you are a legend. you inspire audio people like no one has ever done. your true and kind approach to everything even tho is bad acting from other people is remarcable. all my respect and admiration to you sir. thank you forever man!
Thank you very much Eric for taking the time to test our Herchild 660, it sounds great in your skilled hands and ears. Actually both units sound great.
Although we really appreciate you as an incredibly talented engineer and producer, it looks like electronics engineering is not one of your skills and someone else designed this unit for you, which is totally fine. Due to this fact, there are some technical aspects of your speech that not only are not accurate but actually the opposite is true. Let me briefly go through them:
- You state that using the NOS 6BA6 varimu tube is a problem because, as double the number of tubes is needed, heat dissipated is double. In fact, the opposite is true: as you are undoubtedly aware, the main issue with the original Fairchild is the high plate power dissipation in the 6386 tubes, very close or even exceeding the actual rate of the tubes, which means literally that those tubes are frying and a yearly $1500 retubing process is mandatory. With the 6BA6, as there is only one triode per bottle, the maximum plate dissipation is much higher (actually double) and the life expectancy is way higher, not to mention that retubing the unit will cost a tenth.
- You go on saying that because 6386s have 2 triodes in the same bottle, matching is easier. Again, the opposite is exactly true, as JJ 6386 triodes in the same bottle are often poorly matched and there is no way to remedy this, as JJ wont take any responsibility. This is a big issue during production as I’m sure you have experienced but is a much bigger one if a customer needs to service a unit, as replacing one single defective tube won’t be enough. Poorly matched 6386s can’t simply be used and this and the sound quality factor made us discard their use at a very early stage. You will never have this problem with 6BA6s. We use our own test jigs to match tubes down to +-0.2dB in the 0-20dB range of compression.
- You try to insinuate that customers buying our units are at a risk because we will eventually run out of NOS tubes and the investment will be lost. ( I guess the same applies for U47, M49, U67, etc buyers in your opinion…and buyers of Unfairchild 670 MK1s btw). Again, the opposite is true: We secured tubes for a lifetime, customers can obtain a tube set at cost within the first 2 years of purchase and military tubes are fantastic. With 6386s you are at the mercy of the JJ company and if they decide to stop making the tube, your unit will be the anchor boat. I sincerely hope this will never be the case. Our customers can get a full set of 22 extra tubes when purchasing the unit at cost. Of course, eventually NOS tube supply will disappear, JJ factory will close and the earth will collapse against the sun, but thats another matter.
- It is interesting that you defend the JJ 6386s tube as the “holy grail” and THE way to go whilst the original Unfairchild MK1 did not use them in favor of NOS tubes. We concur with your former opinion on this though: NOS tubes are far superior than JJ 6386s.
- You go further and spread a list of features that the Herchild is “missing”. Firstly, none of those features are present in the Fairchild 670 and, to be honest, are not that interesting in our humble opinion. We appreciate your creativity when designing your unit, but our criteria was to simply recreate the legendary sound of the original. You can get a slow attack and fast release with almost any compressor nowadays without having to spend nowhere near 10 grand. It was a great technical achievement at the time to be able to get the fast attack the 670 has, and that is the sound it is reknowned for. On another side, our unit has all the gain calibration points you state it doesn’t have, only that they are on the inside of the unit. We wonder why a final user being able to misalign the unit is a desired feature.
- Lastly, we simply welcome competition. It is in the sole interest of customers to be able to access so many great products from different manufacturers. You made your recreation, we did ours. We congratulate you for this and wish you the best in the pro audio manufacturing business.
Peter R.
Hey Peter! Thank you for chiming in! I look forward to responding to these comments :) I am traveling this weekend, but should have time on Monday to respond. This will be fun! I'll do a follow up video! Have a great weekend!
Excited for the follow up! This information, even whatever back-and-forth there may be by virtue of market competition, is only good for the customer! Thanks for investing your time in this.
I could listen to EV talk all day..
I love my UnFairchild! I can’t really imagine not having the variable attack and release. Maybe if it was dedicated to a vocal insert, but not for drums or bus work.
Dude- wonderful way to respond to potentially questionable marketing techniques.I always appreciate your candor and insight into the tweaky-ness. Thanks, also, for putting your stuff out there. It makes a big difference to all of us who are searching for more. Cheers!
got a pomchild a year ago. you can add everything you want - i have attack and release control, side chain and best of all: vintage transformers (triad?). i think those transformers really make these old units (not just fairchilds) shine. that really sold me on his. he doesnt use a tube power supply which makes sense to me in 2023 and of course uses 6386 tubes.
Thank you sooo much for making this video Eric. Really informative.
WOW! that feed forward thing is the absolute bomb!!!! that would become so addictive on drums!
Great to hear John Bonham's drum groove going through both so we can really hear the dynamic characteristics of both. Sadly I still can't afford an UNFAIRCHILD. One day ....
This is exactly the information and format that was needed to navigate the Fairchild market 👍 brilliant
Fantastic video and information Eric, thanks for sharing your time and knowledge!
"I have a bias here" 😏
Just saw CLA use an Unfairchild on room mics, in a MWTM video, cheers!
Zarpado, sos un genio!!
Great as always Eric! 🤘
Spiffs were in full effects back in the 90's - 2000's. I worked at Guitar Center and West LA Music; if you sold Roland, or Yamaha or Digidesign and MANY other companies the salesperson would get a spiff. Some salespeople had AMAZING studios because of it! 🤣
Right out of the gate, the sound is great!
Great video 👍
I coulda listened to you doing a bunch of different sources for a few hours.....pretty serious investment, and it's been on the short list if big bucks comps for a few years. Would definitely need to demo one for at least a few hours to see if I jive with the thing.
Also, man, those crash cymbals are killer. Pocket full of gold good!
EV's a genius. Thanks for the full intake into this comparison.
Thanks EV. I built a drip electronics fairchild and it's become a bit of a doorstop for the reasons you explained such as Attack and Release and sidechain with feed forward balance. It's also a great tracking compressor as the Beatles found out. Very interesting the 6386 vs 6BA6 comparison. It's expensive, it's worth it.
Well done Eric.
I hear some difference on the drum loop certainly with my amphions. Unfairchild is blooming in the lowend like the room is more exciting. It is kinda like the PAF bloom sound after the attack that gets bigger, that the all internet is chasing after :). Also since I heard the comparison on the mix video of by the sword from Slash, that is the same thing i hear. Glad you shared this video. Although i dont have the money or near future intension to buy one, if i do, that will be certainly unfairchild.
This is some serious nerdery and it’s awesome
"I have a bias here..." -- I got it!
There is only one Fairchild clone that had a nude promotional video.
6BA6 tubes are used in the T-Bar Mod Manley uses for the Variable Mu Compressors, and they have to be matched, very close or its just a pain in the ass. And yes, I have backstock :-)
RESPECT. 1000 kudos for calling out this bullshit.
Would have loved to see the Pomchild included. But great video!
Hi Eric, Acustica just released a Fairchild plugin called MIDNIGHT. They seem to have sampled the Unfairchild, the Stamchild, an RS660 and what i guess is a vintage unit.
The Unfairchild seems to have been sampled in a pretty aggressive setting compared to the other models. Each of those deliver some quite different attack, release and knee/ratio settings so it covers a pretty wide range of use-cases for a Fairchild sound in the box.
I would be very interested in your opinion if you have the time to check it out.
Cheers !
the hammer smashing the piggy bank on the spif is pretty funny 😂
That Unfairchild is sexy. That would be the one I would get, maybe one day. Unfortunately, one of my Heritage Audio 1073's eq/preamp just failed after one year. I just shipped it to RAD Distribution to be repaired. Hopefully I will not get screwed on this deal.
With both at preset 2, the unfairchild sounds like its set with a slower attack (i prefer) and a little longer release. (bias setting ?) The added features on the Unfairchild are super useful and i'd love to be able to adjust attack and release etc but also, unsurprisingly, those old tubes sounds a little more alive and musical. Different units.
damn man the unfairchild sounds so good
these videos just remind me that i always need to need to know more.. can someone link me on a good resource to crash course electronics and circuitry specifically as they relate to audio?
just got to the audio part - EV being super fair over the broad similarities of sound but when it comes to features it's just an unfair(child) comparison - variable attack and release, FF which you can blend into FB if you have the accessory box, plus HPF, blend etc. I am biased - I've owned an Unfairchild for 4 years and I've mixed multiple dance and contemporary records through it, big low end, transients, it which I just couldn't do without the features UTA have added to vastly open up the range of applications. I'm glad I got mine at 2019 prices though ;)
getting tweaky with it. nananananananah
Wow, that slow attack fast release sounds gorgeous. Is there any plugin out there that can do that?
Im working on it ;)
UAD Manley
Making me wanna spend money I don't have!
Imo the unfairchild is clearly the winner here. I love all the extra options, but even without the options I still like it better. I’d absolutely love to see a comparison with the stam sa670
I picked up the new SA mk2 version simply because of the price point difference compared to the unfairchild but might swing it if the comparison was out of this world..
At 4:00 mins in, i think you mean dual pentodes manufuctured into the same case, dual triode to make a triode. :)
Let’s goooo
The herchild sounds all over the place😂😂😂
Is there a way to get these audio files going through both and without to see the differences instead of through UA-cam? Thanks
If I do another one of these I'll setup a link where you can download them. Good idea!!
Would be interesting to hear your thoughts on the Chandler RS660 in that context.
I was also curious about that! Since their whole design process on that was based about recreating the sound with available parts
Hmmm yeah I'll have to check that out. It looks like he strayed pretty far from the original design but he may have figured out a way to capture the sound a different way.@@acrylicrecording
@@mrwevHi Eric! Wade did a fantastic interview with produce like a pro a few weeks ago. It’s an interesting insight to his design process. I can try and find the time stamp to that part if you’d like?
@@mrwev Yeah check out the Produce Like A Pro Chander shop tour, it added some good insight to the redesign process. Kind of how the old AR engineers rebuilt the Altecs into the RS124. He took the same approach to the RS660. I was originally very surprised and kind of let down when they came out with that because it seemed like they we're just jumping on the Fairchild trains.
I think I remember hearing wade say how impossible it is to properly recreate a Fairchild with modern parts so I think his take on it is pretty interesting! (huge chandler fan here)
Everyone glazing this thing around the time it released earlier in the year makes a lot more sense now. I really wonder if the spiff applied to youtube creators online as well. Sound preference aside its missing so much of what makes the UNFAIR special to me. I was blown away to find out they were the same price because you couldnt pay me to swap out the UNFA for the Herchild. 2 years in and still finding new ways to use the UNFA, which ultimately is the sign an exceptionally well thought out design.
Based on these examples, I'm sure I could do the Herchild thing with a plugin. The UnFairchild sound is just unattainable any other way. GADDAM.
There's never dishonesty in the audio industry marketing is there?! 😂
Would love to hear a shootout against Stam and others.
As someone that worked for a successful pro audio company for a few years, I can attest to seeing ‘spiffs’ being used as a tactic to increase sales. Not a fan myself, and thankfully wasn’t directly involved in that aspect of the job, but it didn’t feel right, even all those years ago.
🙋♂Question.. How do you keep your ears "fresh" when mixing/mastering for hours? I constantly start getting ringing in my ears and then just end up in a rabbit hole of "does this sound good?" or not.
Good question! I am a huge advocate of having a mix that you are referencing as you are working through creating a new mix. I always have something I can pull up that I know I LOVE the sound of. I can switch to it and if it is sounding duller, harsher, or shittier than I am used to than I know my ears are tired and its time to go outside and through the ball for Max (my dog) for 10 mins :) Without a reference it is very easy for me to get lost in my own ear fatigue.
@@mrwev Thanks! Love the channel.
I also heard that UTA didn’t have anymore Unfairchilds. I live in Italy and no one has an Unfairchild. Thomann has the Herchild. Thank god I have never pulled the trigger on the HC. I know SXpro sells UTA. Where can I buy the Unfairchild in Italy? 50:17
Wide Range Audio in Italy. ARDA Supplier in Portugal and Germany.
You should come to our lab in Rome to check the Stam
MIDI Music has a 670 in Italy right now and we are sure they will be more than happy to run a demo test for you.
un Fairchild is thicker more punchy. holds it tight and round on that kick
Imagine making a plug-in without some of those basic compressor features.
The future unavailability of tube types in the others isn't really a concern for me, personally (though I understand it definitely is for others). If I buy 10 or even 5 sets now, it'll last my life and my kid's. I'm not a heavy user. However, the other features and design choices definitely are concerns for me and the UnFairchild ticks the right boxes and sounds great. The most compelling reason I choose an UnFairchild over any other similarly equipped and well built units? Eric Valentine is awesome! Freely sharing information, educating others, showing the work behind the scenes, making amazing hardware, and making amazing music. My "Fairchild fund" gets spent with Eric's unit. Every time an UnFairchild crushes a drum, it lifts up a community of musicians by the same amount.
Maybe hugely “limiting” is the point 😂
I’m a huge ev fan. However the unfairchild advantages put forth in this video, have nothing to do with the OG fairchild design. Heritage can just say “we wanted to honor the original design without any mods” and that’s that. I’m sure some will love the extra flexibility but if I wanted to buy a Fairchild recreation, my focus would be on authenticity rather than flexibility. Having said that, I’m not taking anything away from the unfairchild’s authenticity - I just wish there was a real 660/670 in this shootout and more settings with various sources were compared, instead of all the extra non-Fairchild features the unfairchild has.
Agreed that most if not all of the advantages were not present in the original Fairchild, and Heritage Audio responded the same in their comment. However, I think Eric's point is that at a practically the same price point (~$100 difference on a $10k item) there are clearly many more sounds available on the UnFairchild as demonstrated in the video.
Interesting video! My experience with JJ's 6386s are not that great from a quality standpoint plus really expensive...not ok with that marketing stunt though.
Yes I wish there was a perfect solution for varimu tubes but right now JJ is the best we got. They ain't as reliable as the GE 5-stars used to be but at least we can get em for the foreseeable future :)
That is very true!@@mrwev
There's plenty of nos Tesla 63F1 soviet valves that are 6ba6 equivalent out there. I tested about 150 and got 3 exact matching sets. The new 6386's are really bad for matching and incredably expensive. For now the t-bar option is way cheaper.
I am curious to know how many tubes were in each of your matched sets? Was it 16 or 8? We have had pretty good luck matching the JJ 6386s with the test data they provide but I agree that the overall quality is not as good as the original GE 5stars. Thank you for chiming in!
@@mrwev full 16 as a set.
@@mrwev Also curious how many 6386's you have to test to get a match. I think you mentioned 20 to get 16, but seems strangely low. I got told it's more in the region of 50 or 60 to get a matching 16 set with new JJ. Maybe different tolrences for the builder. hmmm interesting.
@@mrwev Also thanks for your incredable videos, you're amazing!
The "20 to 16" reference was me speculating how many 6BA6 tubes you might have to go through to get a set of 16. It sounds like it is more like 50 for each set of 16. Becuase I was making a total guess, I didn't want to be overly pessimistic but it seems I was a bit too generous in my guess :) The JJ tubes really have been good. Again, I cant say they are as consistent or reliable as a mil spec GE from the 60s but they are working really good. My experience has been that there is a rare circumstances when you would really need extremely exact matching of the tube sets. You will start to hear differences between the two channels if you are trying to do 15 or 20+ dB of compression in stereo. That is a somewhat uncommon application. Certinaly in the first 10dB of compression most any combination of JJ tubes will match up great. that has been my experience :) @@MrJasonsanderson
Just wont your glasses 👓 👓
this comparison doesn't really seem FAIR..... oh. yeah, ok I get it now.
i love EV hes a hero of mine, but man there is absolutely no reason for us to be hearing that 1k test tone, that was not preferable to me
Ugh?
Haha! Sorry about that. I though I had turned it down far enough to not be annoying. Lesson learned. I'll just mute it next time :). Thanks for the feedback!
Unununnotfairlyfairokthankokfair
EVs brought back a classic design to be used not only classically but as a new tool. These other repros seems like a cynical cash grab.
Eric Dodd
Eric Dodd