Drum Preamp Upgrade! Does The Difference Matter To You?
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- Опубліковано 29 чер 2024
- Mix crits and rescues / Production coaching
mattgrou.com/store/consulting
I'm finally upgrading my drum preamps! First, we take a look at the whole gear list. Then we go and record some real drum tracks. Then it's time to listen to the results and compare them with the old ones. Can you appreciate the difference? Is it time for you to upgrade your preamps?
I'd love to know what you do when you need drum tracks! Let me know in the comments.
Thank you for watching!
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0:00 What this video is about
00:49 Preamps overview
03:07 Commute to drums and 100 subs!
03:38 Setting up
04:47 Recording setup
05:27 Lightly mixed drums
06:00 Tracks listen
11:18 Comparison with Midas DL32
12:20 Making rooms with no rooms
14:16 How much do preamps matter to you?
I tried an experiment a couple years ago with micing up my drums in my basement, which I assumed/knew would be terrible. Cheap mics into Behringer XR18 (18 in, 18 out USB interface).
Fresh heads tuned well, with good mic placement, and I was surprised how usable it was. I then ran the Lindell 80 (Neve plugin) on each input, and was shocked how great it sounded.
This extremely modest setup really opened my eyes to how important having the kit setup well and playing well is nearly everything.
Great vid, thanks!
Thanks for your comment! What you have to worry about with cheaper preamps is mostly not pushing them too much since most of them have less headroom and start being noisy at louder levels. Also, sometimes impedance can be less favorable for certain types of microphones, like ribbons.
Dude! The 19a is *such* a great bang for the buck! Have used it hundreds of times for live sound over the ~year+ I've had it. Love it.
At that price point, it's a no-brainer!
Interesting video! Hours of fun! Thank you!
Thank you Mike ! Indeed I'm not done having fun with these!
Sounds frickin great dude! Solid, solid drum sound
Thank you! I'm glad you like it! :)
Great video! The new preamps really do a better job of representing the drums potential sound in the final recording outcome. Well done, great demonstration on why you should have "better" preamps when recording in digital.
Great video! You have my wish list/future set up! Is it possible to do a video of what those RME preamps sound like!?
Glad you like it! The RME preamps are more clinical but totally reliable. In this video, the Hi hat and room mics are hooked to them. They do a fine job.
Back watching this video again because it's been super useful! Wondering what your thoughts are on the Audient ASP800 vs the ASP880. I know one is significantly more costly, but if pretending they were the same price, do you prefer one/the other?
Thanks for coming back! I'm glad my video is of help! The main thing you get from the 880 is a high pass filter, and line inputs on the back. They are both useful features for sure but in my case, not that much. I have a built-in high pass in my RME sound card on every channel so I can use that. As for the line inputs, I can do without them.
That being said, if they were the same price, I would go for the 880! The only thing you loose are the 2 saturation channel on 1 and 2.
Good comparison, thanks. However, I started to not really care about preamps anymore for drums; unless I was after some distortion. Even then I prefer a dedicated distortion device over distorting the preamp (eg. the old but still usable spl vitalizer or the newer Elektron heat). Reason being that preamps seem to have much more of an impact with delicate sound sources like voices or acoustic instruments. Drums are so loud that even quiet microphones give a healthy signal that just don't need much preamplification. If anything, it is about the transient which in turn (in our times) is mostly about the choice of the microphone. I agree that there is a difference in your comparison, but it is rather subtle. Over the years I've come to realize that these differences, while I do often care about them, are mostly not important for the vibe of a recording. It is more about the broad strokes and decisions and how things fit together, than about subtle differences in preamps, compressors etc. However, being a gearhead myself, I can totally see where your excitement comes from. Thanks again for the effort!
"thanks for the effort" you're a dick, bro lol
Thank you for your comment! The difference is definitely subtle between the two. I find myself going more towards the committing route in tracking. Embrassing the saturation, eq or compression I want on the way in. I find that most of the time, I don't regret my decisions. There's also something to be said about turning real knobs instead of a digital fader (which is what I had before). To me, these take part in the broad strokes decisions of how thing will sound in the end. I certainly did not need to upgrade my preamps to make my clients happy with my work. Toying with these make ME happy so it's bound to have a positive downstream effect on the work! :)
But as I mentioned : Get good at your instrument, tune it properly, use good mics for the job. After that, as long as you have clean gain, life is peachy!
Honestly such a good take, the less you need to gain in the preamp stage, the less colouration is actually being imprinted into the sound
@@chrissiemilnarskii Yes! If your don't want any saturation, clean preamps with conservative gain will get you there.
Similar rig here. A Camden EC1 with two saturation settings for kick. I have a GAP Pre 73 I use for snare top. Then the Audient ASP800 for toms, hats, overheads. So, it kind of goes from bottom to top in terms of how saturated/vintage the pres I use are. Looking to get a pair of API style pres, maybe CAPI, or Warm Audio WA-12 for toms. And maybe another GAP to use for snare bottom, Or snare top, so I can move the Camden over to room ribbon mic. I used to use the Behringer UMC1820m pres, and they were serviceable but yeah, no mojo, a bit flat.
I never tried the Camden preamps but I love Cranborne's product philosophy. I've had their 500ADAT for a few years and I love it!
@@mattgrou It's cool, probably my most used preamp. Because it's the cleanest/quietest, but also has those two colour options. And it's almost nice and small on so sit on my desk right in front of me. So it's the first thing I'll use as my vocal Mic, DI, mono guitar preamp but also a really good strong headphone amp. So just a really good frontend to an audio interface that brings it up a level. I use it so much, I think I'll get a second one to have a a stereo pair.
Definitely made an improvement in the sound. The drums sound full and more present with the new preamps. More 3d'ish if you will.
I totally agree. The more I use them, the more I appreciate the difference.
To me (meaning it's just some dude's opinion) I really prefer tracking drum mics all through the same topology. When you're doing the kick and snare through API 512s, the rooms through 1073's, the overheads through (etc etc etc), it's really hard to get everything to glue together in the mix. The slew rate of an IC-based pre like the Audient versus a 73-type with magnetic transformers and transistors are markedly different on percussive sources.
But again, that's just me.
Hey nice Rig.. it’s similar to mine. RME 802 Fireface, UA LA610. I have an Audient 800 but if i use this with the 802 it’ll act as Master - 800 AD etc & the RME converters won’t be active on tracking. Audient is good but I prefer RME converters etc. so the Audient is a spare.. I use various Pres etc and line into the RME… 👌
I'm sold on RME for sure. I remember when I upgraded from an id22 to a Babyface. I could hear the difference in the transient response right away.
Nice shirt!
I knew you'd like it! ;)
Nice shirt indeed!
Great video and great playing as well! I have a similar setup but I’m planning an upgrade of the main interface. I’m torn between RME UFX and UFX 2.
Would you recommend the UFX even if it’s getting a bit old?
Thank you 🥁
Hey Alex, thank you I'm glad you like the video! Depending on what you have right now, upgrading to RME is almost certainly an upgrade. The differences between the UFX and UFX2 are small but non trivial. It comes down to a budget consideration in the end. If you want to check the specs, this will tell you what you want to know: archiv.rme-audio.de/download/tech_info/RME_Fireface_UFX_II_Differences_UFX.pdf
@@mattgrou Much appreciated, thank you for your valuable feedback!
The comparisons should play the same thing
You jumped from one thing playing ride cymbal to something playing hihat....
Doesnt make for a good way to hear the differences
Thanks for your comment! It's true that the files are not the same. I mentioned at 6:07 that the comparison won't be perfect since it's not the same song. However, it's the same drums, drummer, and microphones. The ideal scenario would have been to play the same song on the same day, but switching preamps. That was not an option.
The jumping over to different sections is a common thing to do when referencing in mixing. You purposely listen to little bits of a song just so your ears get a glimpse of the vibe and frequency spectrum. I did this specifically to listen to the sum of the tracks instead on focusing on the details.
Fast and weak hits vs good groovy drum part? I think the opposite comparison would make more sense and probably having the groovy drum part still sounding better…
I get your point. However, as the one who has played both songs, I assure you I played as hard on the older pres. It's not a perfect comparison for sure but to me, the sum of all the preamps is different enough to be worth it.
Which mic pre did you end up using on snare top?
I used the Heritage Audio. The EQ really helped shape the tone and open up the 441 mic on there.
@@mattgrou It sounds amazing! I've been on the fence about purchasing one but now I need to!