Let's not forget Madred's defense of a military government, "But we are feeding the people. We acquired territory during the wars. We developed new resources. We initiated a rebuilding programme. We have mandated agricultural programmes. That is what the military has done for Cardassia. And because of that, my daughter will never worry about going hungry."
I think an important factor about the early Federation-Cardassian conflict can be found in one of the terms for it: "border wars." Plural. A long string of skirmishes and occasional intense flare-ups like Setlik III, at the edges of both powers' sphere of influence & control. Something to be managed and contained, but not a primary focus of the Federation's attention. On the Cardassian side it may (even probably) wasn't their main focus either, but they were more inclined to pre-empt a power like the Federation oozing into territory they had an eye on. The "wars" didn't have the level of mobilization and threat to the home systems that the Romulan War and pre-Organian Klingon conflicts did, and was functionally more in line with conflicts with smaller powers like the Talarians. One of the drawbacks of the treaty was to try to make a peace in the style of the Klingon-Federation treaty without an Organian-like powerhouse to enforce it, or at least its major provisions. Without that, it was simply a matter of waiting for opportunities -- or making some -- to push the interests of Cardassia further.
The cardies were a smaller player trying to punch way above their weight. Frustration and fear set in after the obsidian order was lost, that allowed in turn the Dominion to manipulate both the cardies and the Klingons into a war weakening the entire quadrant. They were ignored by the fed then manipulated by the Dominion. They were nothing more than a weak failed state, the only way they were ever going to change direction was after a crushing defeat, and that's exactly what happened. Perhaps the federation could have done more in their early dealings, but appeasement which would have emboldened them even more and in the end would have been a bad idea. They were already set on course for self destruction probably a century or more before Starfleet even encountered them.
The Federation forgot the responsibility of a hegemon to keep the peace. Let Germany remilitarize the Rhineland and they'll ask for Austria. Let them have Austria and they'll ask for Czechoslovakia. And so on. And after Germany gets away with so much Russia wonders what he can get away with. Turns out all of Eastern Europe, all of China save Formosa, half of Korea, and all of Vietnam but not Afganistan. Then Al Qaeda and their successor ISIS start wondering what he can get away with... The hegemon must come down hard and stay in the fight until they can dictate terms of surrender for as many wars as it takes for the reputation of decadence to fade. Only thus can they restore the Pax Romana that is the only kind of real peace in this sinful world. If the great powers appear to be paper tigers every two bit tyrant is going to start trying to supplant them. Negotiating with the Cardassians told the Cardassians that the Federation thought they were an equal, and since they knew they were a newer power that meant they were rising and/or the Federation was falling and either way that's like chumming a pool of sharks.
Truth or Myth: "...it seemed like the Federation didn't care..." CDR Sisko: "The trouble is Earth-on Earth there is no poverty, no crime, no war. You look out the window of Starfleet Headquarters and you see paradise."
It' always interesting to see things from the point of view of what we may refer to as the "bad guy". There are two sides to every coin and people often forget that, especially during war time. We may see the Cardassians as the enemy but in the end, they only wanted the same thing we want. To protect and provide for their people. They did do some terrible things (cough, the Bajoran occupation), but the Federation isn't completely free from mistakes either.
There is a old saying, “Never Turn Your Back on a Cardassian”. The culture is always at odds with other races and is asking for trouble. They already lit a fuse with Bojor, then Earth and the rest of Federation, and with the Klingons. I would like to see the Massacre of Setlak III drama with the Rutledge.
Jesus, man! This is an absolutely wonderful analysis! The view of the Cardassian people is so rarely looked at, objectively and you hit the nail on the head. It's a point of view we, as a people, need to seriously start doing.
I think the most underappreciated part of star trek is in fact that it's not just some pew pew space show, it's about morality, about expanding your mind, being willing to accept a new idea that is contrary to your own, and it's about respecting each other no matter how different. That's why I love star trek. And I hope that happens in DISCO season 3 🤞
I expect it would take a long time for Cardassia to become a member of the federation. They may be allies like the Federation is with the Klingon Empire. But for them to join there is a lot of cultural difference that may make it difficult. The chats with Garak really helps shows the cultural differences, where many of the moral lessons are interpreted completely flipped This isn't saying that Cardassians are bad people but there are enough differences for it to take a few generations for cultures to merge.
I agree - the Cardassians being Federation members would be a hard pill for other Federation worlds to swallow. We can see in Picard what they are like with the Romulans. I think what will happen to Cardassia is like how Germany and Japan were treated after WW2 - occupied countries. The US kept huge military presence in the countries for almost 50 years. Today, they come under the sphere of American influence. So in the ST universe, it would be possible for them to be associate members, or something like the Klingon-Federation relationship.
Come to think of it, there may have more to DS9 establishing that Cestus III was once again a Federation world. Federation policymakers could easily have forgotten the lesson of the Cestus III massacre about not blindly expanding their territory outward without considering that certain unexplored regions of space already belong to someone.
The Cardassians were kind of "Nazi like" with their forced labor camps, Obsidian order, racial superiority, & the belief that they were entitled to expand into other species territory. So it's no suprise they choose to side with the Dominion to regain their empire by any means necessary. Yet I still loved Gul Dukat & Elim Garak. 😁
Your closing statement could not of been said better. That's why I am always trying to tell my children and grandchildren that if they want to make some form of positive impact, that it has to begin from within. But you can not just sit there, you have to take an active role in using your talents to help others as well. Great video my friend. It's nice being reminded of these simple truths and it really makes you think inward 🤔 Live long and prosper 🖖
Thank you for the video. One thing I have never got is how Dukat got to speak with the Dominion. I don't mean legally I mean literally. He was on a Bird-of-prey and didn't go through the wormhole.
Thank you for the support :) And Im not sure, but if I had to guess, he was in contact with a changeling stationed in the Alpha Quadrant! I always picture him raiding a Klingon Colony or ship and running in to a changeling there... He lets the Changeling live in exchange for letting the Dominion know he wants to talk!
TriAngulum Audio Studios Yeah that makes sense. The funny thing about Dukat was he seemed to miss what joining the Dominion meant. He thought he was TFC’s equal when he was under her. It explains why the Breen were treated better they were allies and not members.
Lucky me that on the day my dissertation is due a video is uploaded on my favourite star trek species :D Also, I always admired how the Cardassians kept trying to be the apex power in the quadrant despite being technologically behind then crushed time and again. Great video :)
I don't think they are that far behind. By the Dominion War their weapons technology was advanced and a match for anything the Klingons or Romulans had. The CU's problem was mismanagement of resources and moron Legates with poor strategic instincts.
You made the same point I had made in my own blogs about a post Dominion War Cardassia becoming a democracy... Similar to a post WW2 Germany. The only point I would leave to the writers of the TV shows is if Cardassia would've been allowed to retain their outlying territory, or would the Klingons be allowed to annex the world's they originally claimed in 2372, and retain the remainder, or if the only sovereign Cardassian territory would be their home system, and controlled by the Federation, while the Klingons would've claimed open season on the rest of their space..?
For a galactic federation that has the exploration of space as its number one goal, it certainly has gotten into numerous wars. In fact, has there been a race that the Federation hasnt been at war with at one tIme or another? The Klingons, The Romulans and the Cardassians. If only CGI had been around when the Best of both Worlds was made. Of course, they would have needed more than one cube.
A lot of great points and ideas in this video! I am also very curious about the Cardassians and what became of them. I also enjoy your not so subtle moral/political perspective at the end. These are trying time and I also believe that the dark dystopian future of Picard and the Federation reflect the fears and insecurities we all feel about our country and our world.
There would NEVER be a UTOPIA anywhere. SADLY...Not when anyone has FEELINGS. There for there will always be HATREDS and PREJUDICES towards others. This doesn't mean there will not be peace and prosperity. Just not 100% UTOPIA. But what do I know?
I never understood why the Dominion didn't simply set DS9 to auto destruct when they were forced to evacuate the station in S6 E6 "The Sacrifice of Angels". That certainly would have made a lot more sense than handing a well armed asset back to the federation (especially considering its strategic location). My only guess is that the female shape shifter simply wouldn't allow it since Odo was remaining aboard.
@@danielyeshe That's a great explanation too. Although there were probably other crude ways to destroy a station (like overloading the fusion reactor). Neither the female shape shifter, Gul Dukat, or Weyoun seemed like the type that would have any moral dilemma about killing a station full of people rather than letting "the most valuable peice of real estate in the Alpha quadrant" fall back into enemy hands. But obviously the writers couldn't blow up the centerpiece of the the show. 😁
Personally I think I'd prefer the cardassians to still be an independent power rather than a member of the federation. And I also find myself curious about what changes the dominion war brought. On a side note still love that scene of 2 galaxy class ships showing that cruiser not to mess with 'em. 🖖
Intriguing video! Have we seen any other species in Star Trek explored to such an extent? I think that even Vulcans, the "oldest species" in the TV shows history haven't been examined this much. Well done! More of this PLEASE! Peace and long life.
In many ways Cardassia is a great analogy for Germany. They fought a war that ended in their defeat and an unhappy treaty but kept the old ideology of militaristic autocracy. They later tried a new government that failed to provide for or protect the people, and then turned to a man promising to "make Cardassia strong again" in their desperate hour. This man then ushered in an era of fascism worse than what they had before and they fought another war that culminated in their utter devastation and occupation by foreign powers. The Federation really dropped the ball with them. Instead of just holding the line, the Federation should have used their full might on them to show the futility of their ideology and allow them to dictate terms from a position of strength. Then, after the treaty is signed, the Federation helps them develop their economy to not need war and conquest. This is why the American occupation of Germany and Japan worked while our occupation of Afghanistan failed: we not only toppled the old regime and ushered in a new one, but we also worked to fundamentally improve the lot of the people living there, thus legitimizing the new government in the eyes of the people and diminishing the appeal and propaganda of the previous one.
That was a good example of how the federation makes friends. It lets them make there own mistakes and then they do the right thing and help out.... Well that is unless your a romulan..... Also when is the next Trek At War coming out?
You are really doing such an excellent job! This video was incredible and held my attention from start to finish. I love your analysis and hope you continue down this path.
Lack of military preparedness towards Cardassia explained by TNG's first couple Seasons being absolute chaos for continuity, and Cardassians as a concept introduced this ep. Can't describe a war with a species who doesn't yet exist.
Bloody BRILLIANT episode dude!!!! You have my support and complete agreement in this, still having issues with patreon but as soon as they are resolved I will be a member.Tim.
I haven't watched any Trek in a long time, but I thought Discovery took place prior to DS9 in the 23rd century, and DS9 took place in the 24th century.
I know TNG is only a show with no overarching story as such, but a major war would be something that would get mentioned even if the Enterprise itself wasn’t directly involved. I have to agree that this makes it seem like the Cardassians were just a minor regional border problem that didn’t have much effect on the Federation in general. Yes there were sneak attacks on Setlik III and the Federation response, but it’s not like the civilians on Earth would have been preparing for air raids or anything. Makes you wonder why then that the Federation would allow such a messy treaty that took so long. I doubt the Cardassians could have done much if the Federation had said “this is the border now, tough shit if you don’t like it” And being more forceful in subduing the Cardassians in the 2360s would have probably prevented them making the alliance with the Dominion, or at least made them a much less tempting proposition for the Dominion. 13:17 Wow, is that like, only the second Lissepian we’ve ever seen!? I’d have thought they’d all have been 25% different and unrecognisable...
I think the Cardassian are the embodiment of a mouth writing checks their body couldn’t cash. They have so much pride as to be delusional. As you said, they couldn’t beat the Federation, Klingons or even the Bajorans but they thought they could use the Dominion to do it, then turn on them and beat them. Talk about pride and arrogance all in the same package, how efficient of them lol (name the series lol)
@@TriAngulumAudioStudios it’s a play off of Londo Mollari on Babylon 5 talking about humans. “Ah, arrogance and stupidity, all in the same package. How efficient of you”
I would like to see an biography of Miles O'Brien especially after DS9. I know he went on to teach at Starfleet but is there anymore after that like from online or comics like we how we knew Laforge was working at Mars shipyard before ST Picard.
Very interesting video and great to see one on the Cardassians who are my favourite Trek race. I'm not 100% in agreement of your analysis of the Federation/Cardassian border wars. I think it's more a question of scale with the Federation being so much bigger than the Cardassian Union. To them it's a minor war going on that a part of Starfleet can deal with. Their ships are already superior and they've broken the codes. In some ways, given that espionage is meant to be one of the Cardassians' major strengths this could be seen as a very major breakthrough by Starfleet and where they put most effort. It's not that they don't take the war seriously but they are not directly endangered by it and they have many other borders to defend. This is the same era when the Ferangi were an unknown and considered a threat afterall. Add to that the Romulan resurgence as an Alpha Quadrant player and then the Borg threat and it looks like the Federation ended the border wars quickly to free up resources and ships. Yes the CU wasn't a big threat but they had put up enough of a fight that the treaty signed wasn't one sided at all. Lastly is how the UFP and CU fight a war. The UFP isn't looking to conquer the CU and are content to defend their territory. The Cardassian strategy seems to be one of border attacks and fortifying their conquests with heavily armed space stations which seem much more formidable than their ships. Both methods leading to a very localised but bloody conflict. I do agree that the wwr would have had a much bigger impact on the Cardassian Psyche than the majority of the Federation citizens. Certainly more important to the Cardassians but being able to stand toe to toe with the bigger and technologically superior Starfleet may have actually given them an overinflated sense of their importance on the galactic stage leading to future mistakes.
I think this is partly right but in terms of the UFP spoonhead war I’d say there a couple of other factors in play. First I would liken the conflict to the Confrontation a small scale war Indonesia-Malaysia confrontation which saw a limited war that was really about gaining concessions at the peace talks and reluctance by both sides to escalate to much. 1. UFP is operating at the limit of it’s range in the 2360’s even by the start of DS9 ( well it’s deep space) so it a limited frontier style war 2. UFP does not care to some extent , at least fed council is like well it’s 200 light years away, were utopia everything is fine etc 3. There are perhaps a dozen other frontier scale wars or just constant threats going for the UFP at the same time, Sheliak, Tarlarins, Tholians, Gorn, ( even Klingon raids sometimes) and the big threat of Romulans at some point. Also just running and patrolling the whole 8000 light years 4. But most of all UFP approach is to deescalate any conflict especially at this time, we can win over the Klingons and get the romulans to isolate, we can resolve our conflicts with anyone. Spock and Sarek fell out over this 5. While finally the spoonheads are aware that they can’t provoke the UFP bear too much, they want to grab a few worlds and force the UFP to give up the effort of taking them, no side envisions any sought of total war
I think there are some tradition, and dubious, arguments made every time Cardassia is discussed. The bottom line is that the Cardassian Union was not as weak as many traditionally claim. It is my belief that Cardassia was smaller, but a much denser military power, that could hold its own, not unlike Prussia in the 19th Century. 1) Myth #1: Cardassia is small and poor compared to their neighbors: This is hard to really gauge. Clearly size and density are two different things. Whereas it is true the CU was smaller in physical size than the three other major powers, it does not follow that they were at a huge disadvantage by population. Dozens of Cardassian systems are referenced in the various series. It seems that Cardassian space was not vast, but dense. Cardassian worlds were lacking in resources... or were they? The Dominion was able to create enormous fleets from the resources of Cardassian space alone. Clearly technology, or better management, could mitigate some of the shortcomings. 2) Myth #2: Cardassian technology was greatly inferior: Cardassian technology was inferior to the Federation's. But that described everyone in the Alpha Quadrant. How far behind then? Cardassian weapons technology was favorably matched against anything the Klingons or Romulans could produce. A Galor Class cruiser was inferior to a Galaxy Class starship, but so were the vast majority of warships from other powers. In the years before the Dominion Alliance the Galor was more than capable of taking on the vast majority of Federation starships that weren't Galaxy, Nebula classes. They were a match for the larger Bird-of-Prey's of the Klingon fleet. Cardassian computer, replicator, transporter, bio related technology all seemed perfectly adequate compared to Klingon, Ferengi or even Romulan technology. It would seem that Cardassians were not as advanced as the Federation, but advanced enough to build a strong military. Ship for Ship, the Galor stacked up favorably. It was well armored and armed. And there were a great many of them. 100 Galor Class ships vs a mixed bag of Federation starships is favorable for the Cardassians. During the Dominion War, Cardassian ships continue to be armed with Cardassian weapons, which are shown to be very potent. Galor class ships can destroy Klingon BoPs, Breen warships and Dominion fighters with one shot. Spiral Wave disrupters are consistently shown wreaking havoc on even Galaxy Class ships. Cardassian plasma torpedoes are as potent as their Romulan counterparts. And the Cardassians even developed quantum torpedoes of their own. 3) Myth #3: The Cardassian Military was completely overmatched compared to the Great Powers: This is really not the case. Pre-Dominion, the Cardassians were sucker-punched by the Klingons and suffered heavy initial losses. And yet, the Cardassians were able to fight the Klingons to a standstill and force a stalemate. Klingon warriors grew to respect Cardassians and their tactics. Like Prussia, it seems the Cardassians had a disproportionately large military establishment with very good weapons technology and extremely proficient officers and men. The ubiquity of the Galor Class indicates a fleet that is perhaps smaller in number to their rivals, but in raw firepower and tactics they can hold their own. This is further supported by the results of the early Dominion War. The CU did not have the time to greatly increase their fleet, nor the time to refit all their ships with Dominion weapons. What we saw was that the addition of only 100 or so Dominion ships allowed the Cardassians to break the stalemate with the Klingons. Within three months they are able to launch a theater level offensive and beat the hell out of the Klingons and Federation with the Cardassian fleet operating in what appears to be parity with the Dominion fleet. Good tactics combined with a well armed fleet demonstrates that while Cardassia was a smaller power, that it was quite capable in its own right. It is entirely possible that the Cardassian-Federation War lasted as long as it did because the Cardassians were not pushovers and that the UFP was unwilling to engage in the all out war necessary to defeat them.
I think people overestimate the dire situations Cardassia found itself in after the War. Relative to the rest of the belligerents Cardassia may have lost 800,000,000 people, but in terms of raw destruction much of Cardassian space was spared any sort of destruction. According to what we saw, three systems were occupied or fought over during the War: Chintoka, Septimus and Cardassia Prime. The vast majority of the War was fought outside Cardassian space. Destruction on a mass scale visited Federation and Klingon worlds but not Cardassian ones. Moreover, the Dominion Alliance was very beneficial from a technological point of view. The Cardassians caught up with the UFP as a consequence and their traditional material disadvantage had been erased by Dominion technology and practices. Cardassian warships were now very much the equal of those of adversarial powers insofar as the Galor and Keldon classes were now much heavier hitters than they were previously. 800 million is a lot, but not for a spacefaring species that has colonized many dozens of worlds. Germany and the Soviet Union lost many people in WWII and it only took them 20 years to recover fully. Cardassia suffered losses, but in the long run their new outlook, and the technology inherited from the Dominion means they will be much stronger than they were.
Cardassia is basically the Star Trek version of contemporary China. Totalitarian rule, massive information censorship, state-affiliated press, huge focus on industry and thus problems with pollution, completely unjust law enforcement, no qualms with forced labor or virtual slavery, no qualms with vicious torture and barbaric prison conditions, huge cultural value placed on families, massive nationalism and homeland pride, belief that they will someday be the ruling superpower regardless of any reality. And of course, taken as a joke by America (The Federation), when it really shouldn't be.
The Cardassia union required sacrifice to a point of it's people, But realized the Dominion required Sacrifice was all of Cardassia for the founders and That is not the price The Cardassians were willing to pay!
The Cardassians greatest weaknesses, IMHO, was that the military government was run by delusional Legates engaged in Bonapartism wherein they generated meaningless conflicts to justify their complete control of society. Instead if concentrating their resources and using their military wisely, they seemingly sought conflicts that had no real value other than propaganda. Going to war over some border systems with a power you cannot defeat is criminally stupid. Their motivations seem like a version of Bonapartism where the Military needed conflict to justify their total control over everyone's daily lives, and to keep the populace distracted. Even playing the game of brinksmanship in betting the UFP would cough up a couple system to avoid war is a stupid diversion of resources. Even a low intensity war is far more costly than merely colonizing other planets away from potential conflict zones. Ultimately the Cardassian fleet would have been much more profitable engaged in expanding Cardassian space away from the UFP, or taking out weaker adversaries. In the hands of the Dominion, the Cardassian military infrastructure and its Fleet were very formidable.
With an estimated 800 million to 1 trillion Cardassians killed, it was most likely that they did not have the military population or citizens to fight or fully maintain order. It was most likely they resorted to rebuilding their lost prime and outreach worlds, culture, and population (that would take at least 2 to 5 generations) to meet the threshold of a 3rd world nation.
If I recall, the area of space where the Cardassian Union evolved from was resource starved. Their early expansionist policies was a reflection of this, and is why they really rely on the abilities of the Obsidian Order whose capable intelligence operatives almost rival Romulan's Tal'Shiar. A very difficult feet let alone for a power whose technological evolution is far behind all the other Alpha and Beta quadrant powers. By the end of DS9, I almost saw Dukat as a sort of anti-hero. A man who really wanted what's best for his people but made a lot of bad decisions for their sake. It made me wonder if he would have walked the path of Demar if he was still the Cardassian military commander, the anti-hero who finally made the right decision after decades of doing it all wrong. A good restospect "what if" scenario worth discussing if you ask me. It wouldn't surprise me if the Phrphets had intended for this to happen IF Sisko didn't force them their hand to wipe out that Doninion fleet. I forgot where I saw this but it was theorized that the Cardassians are a direct descendant of early Bajorans who had rudimentary warp capabilities years before humanity. So the Prophet's will would extend to the Cardassians as much as it does to Bajorans, because they are one and the same race.
The theory stemmed from how easily they could interbreed and no issues of sterility. Many species in Star Trek needed help to have children together. Bajorans and Cardassians don't.
After the dominion took over we never hear anything about the new cardassian civilian government ever again. It seems they went back to a military style dictatorship real fast. After we only see Damar as the leader of Cardassia but there must have been more.
Star Trek Picard kind of destroyed Star Trek for me. There was so much story to be told between all the different shows up until Voyager yet they didn't use much of it in the new show. I see no reason why Picard couldn't have visited DS9, this planet that the androids (synthetics) were on would have been best placed deep into the Gamma Quadrant. They could have even involved the Cardassians.
I know it's not canon, but the DS9 novels made a good case for the Bajorans to take the final step in healing the final wounds of the occupation by helping the Cardassians. I imagine that leading to a Bajoran/Cardassian union that strengthens both of them.
Maaan , .... screw Tha Cardies ' they had it coming , from all those years of the occupation ' and the needless slaughter of various colonies within they're borders but All in all , they are second only to the Romulans as my all time favorite militaristic race's of beings ever in Science fiction ' so consumed in their own superiority of the Bajorans . to be honest I believe if the Bajorans would've became just a little bit more ruthless and savage ' the Cardies wouldn't have stayed even half as long on Bajor " I believe they would have pulled up stakes and just left ' Literally overnight ! But man DS9 fleshed those guys out So , so well . made them so complexed and contradicting , and manipulating but sincere and thoughtful , the Cardassians are truly an interesting species of Humanoid .
Well why wrong? War always comes at a huge cost, which most of the time the people who aren't responsible for the problems have to pay. The only thing war is good for is to get the silent masses to think, to show them ways of change arent optional, but mandatory, maybe make them realize what was the issue in the frist place, but im very reluctant to accept, that war and all the suffering to the innocent, is needed for that. Of corse if they attack you, you hardly have a choice... But generally need to get closer togerher to solve problems, not further away.
When the space hippies laugh at you and don't even bother to send their flagship to the border skirmish that you call a war, and the space bro's, who consider Warhammer 40k a form of foreplay, smack you around, it's time to reconsider your position.
I’d like to NOT see Discovery ruin any more of the established canon. It’s too bad we can’t get good Star Trek. It doesn’t even look good on screen and the confused and busy flash and cgi just looks so boring. Maybe one day we’ll have real stories written by science fiction writers. Just my hope.
First, what you have here is a personal opinion that doesnt fit the majority, nothing more nothing less... Star Trek DSC is doing great, and in fact due to polls conducted on this channel, on twitter, through FB Star Trek groups (both hater and lover groups) have proven that 75% of old fandom loves the new shows... So Star Trek is doing what it always does... Updating itself for a new generation and ignoring those stuck in the past, making up reasons to dislike the show... The SAME exact arguments were made when TNG came out... So this is nothing new for trek... One need only look at the size of FB groups for DSC for example and compare them to groups like the main Trek group on FB which has been around for a decade, to see how incorrect you truly are, As the DSC groups have more members then ANY other trek series to date! And finally, your "Canon" argument is also incorrect! DSC has made NO changes to canon any more then any other series ever created for Trek! So in the end, you're welcome to dislike the show, but dont make up facts to support what is clearly your personal opinion... that wont fly here! Be happy in your own personal opinion, rather then trying to lace it with flimsy, untrue justifications, it just makes you look uniformed with a personal axe to grind!
Well Im ok with that, because you cant please everyone... And it's not political commentary, merely my views on my channel in my video, so it's odd for you expect anything else! Also I do find it pretty shady that you liked your own comment... Those that live in glass houses and all...
Let's not forget Madred's defense of a military government, "But we are feeding the people. We acquired territory during the wars. We developed new resources. We initiated a rebuilding programme. We have mandated agricultural programmes. That is what the military has done for Cardassia. And because of that, my daughter will never worry about going hungry."
The Cardassians were quite a proud people!
The Cardassian empire had some fair analogies to the Nazis. Just saying.
@@jacksonheathen2092 More the Chinese, the whole thing with Bajor was based on the Tibet invasion.
I think an important factor about the early Federation-Cardassian conflict can be found in one of the terms for it: "border wars." Plural. A long string of skirmishes and occasional intense flare-ups like Setlik III, at the edges of both powers' sphere of influence & control. Something to be managed and contained, but not a primary focus of the Federation's attention. On the Cardassian side it may (even probably) wasn't their main focus either, but they were more inclined to pre-empt a power like the Federation oozing into territory they had an eye on. The "wars" didn't have the level of mobilization and threat to the home systems that the Romulan War and pre-Organian Klingon conflicts did, and was functionally more in line with conflicts with smaller powers like the Talarians.
One of the drawbacks of the treaty was to try to make a peace in the style of the Klingon-Federation treaty without an Organian-like powerhouse to enforce it, or at least its major provisions. Without that, it was simply a matter of waiting for opportunities -- or making some -- to push the interests of Cardassia further.
The cardies were a smaller player trying to punch way above their weight. Frustration and fear set in after the obsidian order was lost, that allowed in turn the Dominion to manipulate both the cardies and the Klingons into a war weakening the entire quadrant. They were ignored by the fed then manipulated by the Dominion. They were nothing more than a weak failed state, the only way they were ever going to change direction was after a crushing defeat, and that's exactly what happened.
Perhaps the federation could have done more in their early dealings, but appeasement which would have emboldened them even more and in the end would have been a bad idea. They were already set on course for self destruction probably a century or more before Starfleet even encountered them.
The Federation forgot the responsibility of a hegemon to keep the peace.
Let Germany remilitarize the Rhineland and they'll ask for Austria. Let them have Austria and they'll ask for Czechoslovakia. And so on. And after Germany gets away with so much Russia wonders what he can get away with. Turns out all of Eastern Europe, all of China save Formosa, half of Korea, and all of Vietnam but not Afganistan. Then Al Qaeda and their successor ISIS start wondering what he can get away with... The hegemon must come down hard and stay in the fight until they can dictate terms of surrender for as many wars as it takes for the reputation of decadence to fade. Only thus can they restore the Pax Romana that is the only kind of real peace in this sinful world.
If the great powers appear to be paper tigers every two bit tyrant is going to start trying to supplant them. Negotiating with the Cardassians told the Cardassians that the Federation thought they were an equal, and since they knew they were a newer power that meant they were rising and/or the Federation was falling and either way that's like chumming a pool of sharks.
"To spur people into creating new weapons"
(Absolute glory shot of the Enterprise E)
Love it!! Yet another fantastic episode, keep it up!
Truth or Myth: "...it seemed like the Federation didn't care..."
CDR Sisko: "The trouble is Earth-on Earth there is no poverty, no crime, no war. You look out the window of Starfleet Headquarters and you see paradise."
Love DS9 more than any show in part to the on going story lines.
I think the stories and characters were some of the most well developed in such a short time characters and stories in all of Trek :)
What a wonderful analysis: especially when it comes to the interpretation of these events in terms of what we can learn from them.
Thank you so much Mirko! :)
It' always interesting to see things from the point of view of what we may refer to as the "bad guy". There are two sides to every coin and people often forget that, especially during war time. We may see the Cardassians as the enemy but in the end, they only wanted the same thing we want. To protect and provide for their people. They did do some terrible things (cough, the Bajoran occupation), but the Federation isn't completely free from mistakes either.
There is a old saying, “Never Turn Your Back on a Cardassian”.
The culture is always at odds with other races and is asking for trouble.
They already lit a fuse with Bojor, then Earth and the rest of Federation, and with the Klingons.
I would like to see the Massacre of Setlak III drama with the Rutledge.
Jesus, man! This is an absolutely wonderful analysis! The view of the Cardassian people is so rarely looked at, objectively and you hit the nail on the head. It's a point of view we, as a people, need to seriously start doing.
I think the most underappreciated part of star trek is in fact that it's not just some pew pew space show, it's about morality, about expanding your mind, being willing to accept a new idea that is contrary to your own, and it's about respecting each other no matter how different.
That's why I love star trek.
And I hope that happens in DISCO season 3 🤞
Star Trek, as futuristic and sci-fi as it is, in its true essence has always been a way to reflect upon on our own reality and lives.
I expect it would take a long time for Cardassia to become a member of the federation. They may be allies like the Federation is with the Klingon Empire. But for them to join there is a lot of cultural difference that may make it difficult. The chats with Garak really helps shows the cultural differences, where many of the moral lessons are interpreted completely flipped This isn't saying that Cardassians are bad people but there are enough differences for it to take a few generations for cultures to merge.
I agree - the Cardassians being Federation members would be a hard pill for other Federation worlds to swallow. We can see in Picard what they are like with the Romulans.
I think what will happen to Cardassia is like how Germany and Japan were treated after WW2 - occupied countries. The US kept huge military presence in the countries for almost 50 years. Today, they come under the sphere of American influence.
So in the ST universe, it would be possible for them to be associate members, or something like the Klingon-Federation relationship.
Come to think of it, there may have more to DS9 establishing that Cestus III was once again a Federation world. Federation policymakers could easily have forgotten the lesson of the Cestus III massacre about not blindly expanding their territory outward without considering that certain unexplored regions of space already belong to someone.
The Cardassians were kind of "Nazi like" with their forced labor camps, Obsidian order, racial superiority, & the belief that they were entitled to expand into other species territory.
So it's no suprise they choose to side with the Dominion to regain their empire by any means necessary. Yet I still loved Gul Dukat & Elim Garak. 😁
Your closing statement could not of been said better. That's why I am always trying to tell my children and grandchildren that if they want to make some form of positive impact, that it has to begin from within. But you can not just sit there, you have to take an active role in using your talents to help others as well.
Great video my friend. It's nice being reminded of these simple truths and it really makes you think inward 🤔
Live long and prosper 🖖
Thank you for the video. One thing I have never got is how Dukat got to speak with the Dominion. I don't mean legally I mean literally. He was on a Bird-of-prey and didn't go through the wormhole.
Thank you for the support :) And Im not sure, but if I had to guess, he was in contact with a changeling stationed in the Alpha Quadrant! I always picture him raiding a Klingon Colony or ship and running in to a changeling there... He lets the Changeling live in exchange for letting the Dominion know he wants to talk!
TriAngulum Audio Studios Yeah that makes sense. The funny thing about Dukat was he seemed to miss what joining the Dominion meant. He thought he was TFC’s equal when he was under her. It explains why the Breen were treated better they were allies and not members.
well he could have been contacted by a changeling already in the Alpha quadrant. We know they had already sent their spies by that point.
Lucky me that on the day my dissertation is due a video is uploaded on my favourite star trek species :D
Also, I always admired how the Cardassians kept trying to be the apex power in the quadrant despite being technologically behind then crushed time and again.
Great video :)
Thank you so much :) And good luck with your dissertation! Fingers crossed :)
I don't think they are that far behind. By the Dominion War their weapons technology was advanced and a match for anything the Klingons or Romulans had. The CU's problem was mismanagement of resources and moron Legates with poor strategic instincts.
You made the same point I had made in my own blogs about a post Dominion War Cardassia becoming a democracy... Similar to a post WW2 Germany. The only point I would leave to the writers of the TV shows is if Cardassia would've been allowed to retain their outlying territory, or would the Klingons be allowed to annex the world's they originally claimed in 2372, and retain the remainder, or if the only sovereign Cardassian territory would be their home system, and controlled by the Federation, while the Klingons would've claimed open season on the rest of their space..?
For a galactic federation that has the exploration of space as its number one goal, it certainly has gotten into numerous wars. In fact, has there been a race that the Federation hasnt been at war with at one tIme or another? The Klingons, The Romulans and the Cardassians. If only CGI had been around when the Best of both Worlds was made. Of course, they would have needed more than one cube.
A lot of great points and ideas in this video! I am also very curious about the Cardassians and what became of them. I also enjoy your not so subtle moral/political perspective at the end. These are trying time and I also believe that the dark dystopian future of Picard and the Federation reflect the fears and insecurities we all feel about our country and our world.
Great vid. I love the Cardassians, such a proud people who realise too late that their pride is what is ruining them.
There would NEVER be a UTOPIA anywhere. SADLY...Not when anyone has FEELINGS. There for there will always be HATREDS and PREJUDICES towards others. This doesn't mean there will not be peace and prosperity. Just not 100% UTOPIA. But what do I know?
I never understood why the Dominion didn't simply set DS9 to auto destruct when they were forced to evacuate the station in S6 E6 "The Sacrifice of Angels".
That certainly would have made a lot more sense than handing a well armed asset back to the federation (especially considering its strategic location).
My only guess is that the female shape shifter simply wouldn't allow it since Odo was remaining aboard.
Probably but also Rom deactivate the station's weapons so it could be that the self-destruct needs the weapons to operate.
@@danielyeshe That's a great explanation too. Although there were probably other crude ways to destroy a station (like overloading the fusion reactor).
Neither the female shape shifter, Gul Dukat, or Weyoun seemed like the type that would have any moral dilemma about killing a station full of people rather than letting "the most valuable peice of real estate in the Alpha quadrant" fall back into enemy hands.
But obviously the writers couldn't blow up the centerpiece of the the show. 😁
They thought they were coming back
@@demonprinces17 I suppose that's a decent explanation too.
No changeling has ever harmed another.
Personally I think I'd prefer the cardassians to still be an independent power rather than a member of the federation. And I also find myself curious about what changes the dominion war brought. On a side note still love that scene of 2 galaxy class ships showing that cruiser not to mess with 'em. 🖖
Intriguing video! Have we seen any other species in Star Trek explored to such an extent? I think that even Vulcans, the "oldest species" in the TV shows history haven't been examined this much.
Well done! More of this PLEASE!
Peace and long life.
A great video on the cautionary tale of ignoring a militaristic nation near your borders, this happens. Thanks for sharing, TAS!
Glad you enjoyed it Anti :) Can I call you Anti? :P
@@TriAngulumAudioStudios Sure. I'm used to it! Mind if I called you TAS?
In many ways Cardassia is a great analogy for Germany. They fought a war that ended in their defeat and an unhappy treaty but kept the old ideology of militaristic autocracy. They later tried a new government that failed to provide for or protect the people, and then turned to a man promising to "make Cardassia strong again" in their desperate hour. This man then ushered in an era of fascism worse than what they had before and they fought another war that culminated in their utter devastation and occupation by foreign powers.
The Federation really dropped the ball with them. Instead of just holding the line, the Federation should have used their full might on them to show the futility of their ideology and allow them to dictate terms from a position of strength. Then, after the treaty is signed, the Federation helps them develop their economy to not need war and conquest. This is why the American occupation of Germany and Japan worked while our occupation of Afghanistan failed: we not only toppled the old regime and ushered in a new one, but we also worked to fundamentally improve the lot of the people living there, thus legitimizing the new government in the eyes of the people and diminishing the appeal and propaganda of the previous one.
Outstanding analysis and this was a very good video.
Thank you so much William :)
That was a good example of how the federation makes friends.
It lets them make there own mistakes and then they do the right thing and help out....
Well that is unless your a romulan.....
Also when is the next Trek At War coming out?
You are really doing such an excellent job! This video was incredible and held my attention from start to finish. I love your analysis and hope you continue down this path.
Fabulous video and done in true Star Trek fashion with a relevant message for today.
Great video.
I especially liked you statement at the end, very motivational and sadly fitting nowadays
this is the the best video you have ever made dude, you should make one about the Klingons or Romulans.
Lack of military preparedness towards Cardassia explained by TNG's first couple Seasons being absolute chaos for continuity, and Cardassians as a concept introduced this ep. Can't describe a war with a species who doesn't yet exist.
Bloody BRILLIANT episode dude!!!! You have my support and complete agreement in this, still having issues with patreon but as soon as they are resolved I will be a member.Tim.
Thank you very much Tim! And Still, geez :( Sorry about that :)
Well said. Great and wonderful video. Cardassia was certainly a demon to Bajor and others enough for consideration. Bajor kicks some ass later!
I haven't watched any Trek in a long time, but I thought Discovery took place prior to DS9 in the 23rd century, and DS9 took place in the 24th century.
Well a) this video was made a LONG time ago for me, so Im not sure what you're referencing or talking about... And b) It does!
I know TNG is only a show with no overarching story as such, but a major war would be something that would get mentioned even if the Enterprise itself wasn’t directly involved. I have to agree that this makes it seem like the Cardassians were just a minor regional border problem that didn’t have much effect on the Federation in general. Yes there were sneak attacks on Setlik III and the Federation response, but it’s not like the civilians on Earth would have been preparing for air raids or anything. Makes you wonder why then that the Federation would allow such a messy treaty that took so long. I doubt the Cardassians could have done much if the Federation had said “this is the border now, tough shit if you don’t like it”
And being more forceful in subduing the Cardassians in the 2360s would have probably prevented them making the alliance with the Dominion, or at least made them a much less tempting proposition for the Dominion.
13:17 Wow, is that like, only the second Lissepian we’ve ever seen!? I’d have thought they’d all have been 25% different and unrecognisable...
8:08 - "Make Cardassia Great Again!"
I think the Cardassian are the embodiment of a mouth writing checks their body couldn’t cash. They have so much pride as to be delusional. As you said, they couldn’t beat the Federation, Klingons or even the Bajorans but they thought they could use the Dominion to do it, then turn on them and beat them. Talk about pride and arrogance all in the same package, how efficient of them lol (name the series lol)
LOL Ive never heard it put quite that way before! :) LOL And sorry no clue!
@@TriAngulumAudioStudios it’s a play off of Londo Mollari on Babylon 5 talking about humans. “Ah, arrogance and stupidity, all in the same package. How efficient of you”
You make some great points and great insights. Great video 👍
I would like to see an biography of Miles O'Brien especially after DS9. I know he went on to teach at Starfleet but is there anymore after that like from online or comics like we how we knew Laforge was working at Mars shipyard before ST Picard.
Another wonderful video and well thought out and presented very well
I hope we learn of what happen them as well as the Dominion just like what we are learning what happened in Picard with the romulans
Very interesting video and great to see one on the Cardassians who are my favourite Trek race. I'm not 100% in agreement of your analysis of the Federation/Cardassian border wars. I think it's more a question of scale with the Federation being so much bigger than the Cardassian Union. To them it's a minor war going on that a part of Starfleet can deal with. Their ships are already superior and they've broken the codes. In some ways, given that espionage is meant to be one of the Cardassians' major strengths this could be seen as a very major breakthrough by Starfleet and where they put most effort. It's not that they don't take the war seriously but they are not directly endangered by it and they have many other borders to defend. This is the same era when the Ferangi were an unknown and considered a threat afterall. Add to that the Romulan resurgence as an Alpha Quadrant player and then the Borg threat and it looks like the Federation ended the border wars quickly to free up resources and ships. Yes the CU wasn't a big threat but they had put up enough of a fight that the treaty signed wasn't one sided at all. Lastly is how the UFP and CU fight a war. The UFP isn't looking to conquer the CU and are content to defend their territory. The Cardassian strategy seems to be one of border attacks and fortifying their conquests with heavily armed space stations which seem much more formidable than their ships. Both methods leading to a very localised but bloody conflict. I do agree that the wwr would have had a much bigger impact on the Cardassian Psyche than the majority of the Federation citizens. Certainly more important to the Cardassians but being able to stand toe to toe with the bigger and technologically superior Starfleet may have actually given them an overinflated sense of their importance on the galactic stage leading to future mistakes.
I think this is partly right but in terms of the UFP spoonhead war I’d say there a couple of other factors in play. First I would liken the conflict to the Confrontation a small scale war Indonesia-Malaysia confrontation which saw a limited war that was really about gaining concessions at the peace talks and reluctance by both sides to escalate to much.
1. UFP is operating at the limit of it’s range in the 2360’s even by the start of DS9 ( well it’s deep space) so it a limited frontier style war
2. UFP does not care to some extent , at least fed council is like well it’s 200 light years away, were utopia everything is fine etc
3. There are perhaps a dozen other frontier scale wars or just constant threats going for the UFP at the same time, Sheliak, Tarlarins, Tholians, Gorn, ( even Klingon raids sometimes) and the big threat of Romulans at some point. Also just running and patrolling the whole 8000 light years
4. But most of all UFP approach is to deescalate any conflict especially at this time, we can win over the Klingons and get the romulans to isolate, we can resolve our conflicts with anyone. Spock and Sarek fell out over this
5. While finally the spoonheads are aware that they can’t provoke the UFP bear too much, they want to grab a few worlds and force the UFP to give up the effort of taking them, no side envisions any sought of total war
Well put we all the same species floating through space on the same Rock. And hopefully one day we'll realize it and much more..
If Sisco did not stop the evil coming. .. i think Cardasia would have been in trouble along with everyone else
I love your work it's so amazing
Thank you so much Badger!
I think there are some tradition, and dubious, arguments made every time Cardassia is discussed. The bottom line is that the Cardassian Union was not as weak as many traditionally claim. It is my belief that Cardassia was smaller, but a much denser military power, that could hold its own, not unlike Prussia in the 19th Century.
1) Myth #1: Cardassia is small and poor compared to their neighbors: This is hard to really gauge. Clearly size and density are two different things. Whereas it is true the CU was smaller in physical size than the three other major powers, it does not follow that they were at a huge disadvantage by population. Dozens of Cardassian systems are referenced in the various series. It seems that Cardassian space was not vast, but dense. Cardassian worlds were lacking in resources... or were they? The Dominion was able to create enormous fleets from the resources of Cardassian space alone. Clearly technology, or better management, could mitigate some of the shortcomings.
2) Myth #2: Cardassian technology was greatly inferior: Cardassian technology was inferior to the Federation's. But that described everyone in the Alpha Quadrant. How far behind then? Cardassian weapons technology was favorably matched against anything the Klingons or Romulans could produce. A Galor Class cruiser was inferior to a Galaxy Class starship, but so were the vast majority of warships from other powers. In the years before the Dominion Alliance the Galor was more than capable of taking on the vast majority of Federation starships that weren't Galaxy, Nebula classes. They were a match for the larger Bird-of-Prey's of the Klingon fleet. Cardassian computer, replicator, transporter, bio related technology all seemed perfectly adequate compared to Klingon, Ferengi or even Romulan technology. It would seem that Cardassians were not as advanced as the Federation, but advanced enough to build a strong military.
Ship for Ship, the Galor stacked up favorably. It was well armored and armed. And there were a great many of them. 100 Galor Class ships vs a mixed bag of Federation starships is favorable for the Cardassians. During the Dominion War, Cardassian ships continue to be armed with Cardassian weapons, which are shown to be very potent. Galor class ships can destroy Klingon BoPs, Breen warships and Dominion fighters with one shot. Spiral Wave disrupters are consistently shown wreaking havoc on even Galaxy Class ships. Cardassian plasma torpedoes are as potent as their Romulan counterparts. And the Cardassians even developed quantum torpedoes of their own.
3) Myth #3: The Cardassian Military was completely overmatched compared to the Great Powers: This is really not the case. Pre-Dominion, the Cardassians were sucker-punched by the Klingons and suffered heavy initial losses. And yet, the Cardassians were able to fight the Klingons to a standstill and force a stalemate. Klingon warriors grew to respect Cardassians and their tactics.
Like Prussia, it seems the Cardassians had a disproportionately large military establishment with very good weapons technology and extremely proficient officers and men. The ubiquity of the Galor Class indicates a fleet that is perhaps smaller in number to their rivals, but in raw firepower and tactics they can hold their own. This is further supported by the results of the early Dominion War. The CU did not have the time to greatly increase their fleet, nor the time to refit all their ships with Dominion weapons. What we saw was that the addition of only 100 or so Dominion ships allowed the Cardassians to break the stalemate with the Klingons. Within three months they are able to launch a theater level offensive and beat the hell out of the Klingons and Federation with the Cardassian fleet operating in what appears to be parity with the Dominion fleet.
Good tactics combined with a well armed fleet demonstrates that while Cardassia was a smaller power, that it was quite capable in its own right. It is entirely possible that the Cardassian-Federation War lasted as long as it did because the Cardassians were not pushovers and that the UFP was unwilling to engage in the all out war necessary to defeat them.
I think people overestimate the dire situations Cardassia found itself in after the War. Relative to the rest of the belligerents Cardassia may have lost 800,000,000 people, but in terms of raw destruction much of Cardassian space was spared any sort of destruction. According to what we saw, three systems were occupied or fought over during the War: Chintoka, Septimus and Cardassia Prime. The vast majority of the War was fought outside Cardassian space. Destruction on a mass scale visited Federation and Klingon worlds but not Cardassian ones.
Moreover, the Dominion Alliance was very beneficial from a technological point of view. The Cardassians caught up with the UFP as a consequence and their traditional material disadvantage had been erased by Dominion technology and practices. Cardassian warships were now very much the equal of those of adversarial powers insofar as the Galor and Keldon classes were now much heavier hitters than they were previously.
800 million is a lot, but not for a spacefaring species that has colonized many dozens of worlds. Germany and the Soviet Union lost many people in WWII and it only took them 20 years to recover fully. Cardassia suffered losses, but in the long run their new outlook, and the technology inherited from the Dominion means they will be much stronger than they were.
Wow, great analysis!
Please do more videos like this.
I will do my best :)
Very interesting!
"Peace loving space hippies"! Lol I always thought that the Cardassians were one of the most interesting races in the Star Trek universe.
I agree completely great video you hit it in nail with everything you said take care
Thank you Edgardo :)
Peace through superior fire power.
I agree, Make Cardassia Great Again
Cardassia is basically the Star Trek version of contemporary China. Totalitarian rule, massive information censorship, state-affiliated press, huge focus on industry and thus problems with pollution, completely unjust law enforcement, no qualms with forced labor or virtual slavery, no qualms with vicious torture and barbaric prison conditions, huge cultural value placed on families, massive nationalism and homeland pride, belief that they will someday be the ruling superpower regardless of any reality. And of course, taken as a joke by America (The Federation), when it really shouldn't be.
The Cardassia union required sacrifice to a point of it's people, But realized the Dominion required Sacrifice was all of Cardassia for the founders and That is not the price The Cardassians were willing to pay!
I have a new respect of the Spoon head.
their was a war with the klingons that lasted 18 years. according to garak
sorry a minor skirmish
LOL Indeed :)
Really good vid thank you
The Cardassians greatest weaknesses, IMHO, was that the military government was run by delusional Legates engaged in Bonapartism wherein they generated meaningless conflicts to justify their complete control of society.
Instead if concentrating their resources and using their military wisely, they seemingly sought conflicts that had no real value other than propaganda. Going to war over some border systems with a power you cannot defeat is criminally stupid. Their motivations seem like a version of Bonapartism where the Military needed conflict to justify their total control over everyone's daily lives, and to keep the populace distracted. Even playing the game of brinksmanship in betting the UFP would cough up a couple system to avoid war is a stupid diversion of resources. Even a low intensity war is far more costly than merely colonizing other planets away from potential conflict zones. Ultimately the Cardassian fleet would have been much more profitable engaged in expanding Cardassian space away from the UFP, or taking out weaker adversaries. In the hands of the Dominion, the Cardassian military infrastructure and its Fleet were very formidable.
War and peace are good for business.
Indeed they are :P
With an estimated 800 million to 1 trillion Cardassians killed, it was most likely that they did not have the military population or citizens to fight or fully maintain order. It was most likely they resorted to rebuilding their lost prime and outreach worlds, culture, and population (that would take at least 2 to 5 generations) to meet the threshold of a 3rd world nation.
Your Videos are my background :D
Im honored :)
Well said.
If I recall, the area of space where the Cardassian Union evolved from was resource starved. Their early expansionist policies was a reflection of this, and is why they really rely on the abilities of the Obsidian Order whose capable intelligence operatives almost rival Romulan's Tal'Shiar. A very difficult feet let alone for a power whose technological evolution is far behind all the other Alpha and Beta quadrant powers.
By the end of DS9, I almost saw Dukat as a sort of anti-hero. A man who really wanted what's best for his people but made a lot of bad decisions for their sake. It made me wonder if he would have walked the path of Demar if he was still the Cardassian military commander, the anti-hero who finally made the right decision after decades of doing it all wrong. A good restospect "what if" scenario worth discussing if you ask me. It wouldn't surprise me if the Phrphets had intended for this to happen IF Sisko didn't force them their hand to wipe out that Doninion fleet.
I forgot where I saw this but it was theorized that the Cardassians are a direct descendant of early Bajorans who had rudimentary warp capabilities years before humanity. So the Prophet's will would extend to the Cardassians as much as it does to Bajorans, because they are one and the same race.
The theory stemmed from how easily they could interbreed and no issues of sterility. Many species in Star Trek needed help to have children together. Bajorans and Cardassians don't.
After the dominion took over we never hear anything about the new cardassian civilian government ever again. It seems they went back to a military style dictatorship real fast. After we only see Damar as the leader of Cardassia but there must have been more.
Now that is something to think about.
I do try ;) :P
@@TriAngulumAudioStudios There is a story mision in Star Trek Online that detales the aftermath of the Dominon War.
Indeed there is, but of course STO is not canon... So Ill wait and see what happens in DSC :)
354th like
cardassians remind me of the korean war and it's effects afterwards
I didn't like that Damar died. He should have lived to become the new leader of Cardassia.
Every great political moment for change needs its martyr.
Star Trek Picard kind of destroyed Star Trek for me. There was so much story to be told between all the different shows up until Voyager yet they didn't use much of it in the new show. I see no reason why Picard couldn't have visited DS9, this planet that the androids (synthetics) were on would have been best placed deep into the Gamma Quadrant. They could have even involved the Cardassians.
I know it's not canon, but the DS9 novels made a good case for the Bajorans to take the final step in healing the final wounds of the occupation by helping the Cardassians. I imagine that leading to a Bajoran/Cardassian union that strengthens both of them.
There have been MANY great tie in novels, but as you said, unfortunately they are not canon! So we will waiting and see :)
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
Edmund Burke
War...war never changes.
Or
We
Are
Right
Sources needed but known
Maaan , .... screw Tha Cardies ' they had it coming , from all those years of the occupation ' and the needless slaughter of various colonies within they're borders but All in all , they are second only to the Romulans as my all time favorite militaristic race's of beings ever in Science fiction ' so consumed in their own superiority of the Bajorans . to be honest I believe if the Bajorans would've became just a little bit more ruthless and savage ' the Cardies wouldn't have stayed even half as long on Bajor " I believe they would have pulled up stakes and just left ' Literally overnight ! But man DS9 fleshed those guys out So , so well . made them so complexed and contradicting , and manipulating but sincere and thoughtful , the Cardassians are truly an interesting species of Humanoid .
Inevitable? Maybe... But I still keep it with this old quote...
I still prefer the most unfair peace, to the most rightous war. - Cicero
A great quote, but in my opinion, a wrong quote :)
Well why wrong? War always comes at a huge cost, which most of the time the people who aren't responsible for the problems have to pay. The only thing war is good for is to get the silent masses to think, to show them ways of change arent optional, but mandatory, maybe make them realize what was the issue in the frist place, but im very reluctant to accept, that war and all the suffering to the innocent, is needed for that.
Of corse if they attack you, you hardly have a choice...
But generally need to get closer togerher to solve problems, not further away.
0:33 just like France and Germany
When the space hippies laugh at you and don't even bother to send their flagship to the border skirmish that you call a war, and the space bro's, who consider Warhammer 40k a form of foreplay, smack you around, it's time to reconsider your position.
LOL I know right? :P
So Tragic
Agreed
I’d like to NOT see Discovery ruin any more of the established canon. It’s too bad we can’t get good Star Trek. It doesn’t even look good on screen and the confused and busy flash and cgi just looks so boring. Maybe one day we’ll have real stories written by science fiction writers. Just my hope.
First, what you have here is a personal opinion that doesnt fit the majority, nothing more nothing less... Star Trek DSC is doing great, and in fact due to polls conducted on this channel, on twitter, through FB Star Trek groups (both hater and lover groups) have proven that 75% of old fandom loves the new shows... So Star Trek is doing what it always does... Updating itself for a new generation and ignoring those stuck in the past, making up reasons to dislike the show... The SAME exact arguments were made when TNG came out... So this is nothing new for trek... One need only look at the size of FB groups for DSC for example and compare them to groups like the main Trek group on FB which has been around for a decade, to see how incorrect you truly are, As the DSC groups have more members then ANY other trek series to date!
And finally, your "Canon" argument is also incorrect! DSC has made NO changes to canon any more then any other series ever created for Trek! So in the end, you're welcome to dislike the show, but dont make up facts to support what is clearly your personal opinion... that wont fly here! Be happy in your own personal opinion, rather then trying to lace it with flimsy, untrue justifications, it just makes you look uniformed with a personal axe to grind!
Its a shame u gotta warn ppl how to be civil when they have indifference in opinion.
It is what it is right? :)
@@TriAngulumAudioStudios so true
As Gorkon said “I see we have a long way to go”.
@Shame nolan respect and civility is how we actually learn something from those differences
Yup.
Indeed :)
Hello
LLAP
o7
I was really enjoying this right up until the end before you interjected with what I'd say was your own political commentary.
Well Im ok with that, because you cant please everyone... And it's not political commentary, merely my views on my channel in my video, so it's odd for you expect anything else!
Also I do find it pretty shady that you liked your own comment... Those that live in glass houses and all...
And then, after the war they started a tv show. With "keeping up with the Cardiassians" life has never been the same
LOL