No seriously. Where the hell was Felix? He would never put on an Alliance ring and his girlfriend and cousin, who he keeps trying to make sure are free, were literally imprisoned. What even was the point of his stupid abstract play? Did he just want Ladybug to do all the work for him?
Honestly, at this point, Chat Noir has every right to go villain if he wants. Everyone lies to him, treats him as a side piece with no autonomy, and considers him unimportant.
@@Kadel___ hope so; I could see him maybe going dark after the truth finally comes out that everyone was lying to him and ladybug never told him that his own father was the same villain they fought against nearly all year. I’d love if in this new multiverse special maybe they can start developing Adrien by having the evil cat noir get him to turn to the dark side by telling him the truth. Claw noir could convince the main Adrien to use and abuse his power so others will be forced to respect him.
@@rhaeasoul8531r maybe Lila will tell him everything and get him on her side. After all, she knows everything, and she'd be actually telling the truth this time, which will convince Adrien to become a villain. Maybe he might reject it the first time. But then when Lila gets a hold of the twin rings. He'd have no choice but to obey, and become a villain, this way Adrien will become akumatized and will become a villain. But before all of that I think Adrien will reveal to someone like his best friend Nino, who has been showing to get better throughout season 5, and atp I think he might renounce his miraculous and give it to him before he gives in to Lila. I think that could create for some very angsty plot, and then Ladybug and Nino with the Cat Miraculous. The two close people to Adrien are gonna try their best to save him. Because of that, Nino might still have Wayzz with him, but could only unify him with Plagg if absolutely necessary, but I don't think he'd normally do that. So Carapace could be missing for some time. However if people questions about Cat Noir's whereabouts, Nino could say that Cat Noir asked him to take on his place for a few days, as Cat Noir had to travel elsewhere. But bts Nino is trying to save Adrien who is Cat Noir, along with Ladybug, and he could alternatively switch from him with the cat, to Carapace, without raising suspicions about Carapace's whereabouts too.
I've argued in my own videos on the matter that Astruc has no interest in making Adrien a character beyond a certain narrow set of character traits. Astruc has repeatedly demonstrated the lengths he will go to write Adrien out of his own story to keep Adrien as a perfect doll. Felix honestly feels more like a protagonist because he got many stories where Adrien should have been relevant. Finding out Gabriel is Hawk Moth? Felix did that, not Adrien. Finding Emile's stasis pod? Felix did that, not Adrien. Revealing his family's history of Marinette? Felix did that, not Adrien. The irony in this is that Astruc treats Adrien as a perfect doll which is exactly what Gabriel does to Adrien.
I've only caught up on the show since the start of season 4 through reviews, but it seems like Felix to Adrien is what Zoe is to Chloe, they're there so that neither character could develop further
I honestly find it so funny that Astruc replaced Felix with Adrien only to re-replace Adrien with Felix. I wish he would left good enough alone and kept Felix the other protagonist.
@@victoriaescobedo5458wow you’re very right 😀 well I’m calling that bad writing because he’s just inserting more characters so his main character’s problems don’t need to be dealt with on screen, which is kind of dumb. It probably be easier to right a character development arc then create an entire new character and give them half the background.
@@Thehipsteremo You are right. They should have kept Felix as main character and never should have included Adrien in it. Seriously, this guy is so out of the loop, every relevant information for plot or his character development is kept from him. Now I'm starting to think that Astruc doesn't even care about the deuteragonist he wrote.
@@_Kazuto_Kirigaya_Im just saying the og Felix/Adrien being a self centered rich kid who has a persona as a lovesick dork is infinitely more intriguing than our current Adrien just as a character. I would have much preferred the whole will they won’t they if Felix didn’t like Marinette because he he didn’t think she that important but slowly going soft for her and unsure how to feel. Chat Noir being the very open about his feelings alter ego to someone who’s emotionally constipated is just more interesting to me.
the fact that gabriel getting a statue in his honor & is praised for his non-existent heroism while his son, whom he had emotionally abused throughout most of his life, is lied to & gaslighted into believing that his father was a great man and aspires to be like him in the future is the ending this trashfire of a show expects us to consider as 'good' is actually apalling & disgusting on multiple layers
While I agree, 2 things. 1, the show isn’t over yet so this could be done on purpose to give Adrien some trauma that he was lied to later on. And 2, the movie is coming out and since the movie is it’s own thing, I bet they’re gonna handle that reveal differently. I hope so at least.
Hopefully we get a statue tearing down scene and Lila is the one responsible for exposing Monarch. She'll also be the cause for Ladybug and Cat Noir to become enemies
“adrien being demoted from a sidekick to a damsel in distress would have been bad enough, but you know what? at least in the nightmare, he was there.” i’m crying😭😭
@@90lancasterAurora is the more accurate Disney Princess to compare him to because: 1. The entire story of Sleeping Beauty is caused by Aurora’s birth. 2. She doesn’t figure out what’s going on for the majority of her life (granted, she eventually does, unlike Adrien). 3. She’s shut out of the fight against the main villain. 4. She isn’t even the main character of her own story. That title goes to the Good Fairies.
They did Adrian so dirty that I don't think any other main character in history past and future will ever be dismissed as hard as Adrian got dismissed in this finale
@@moon4236 that's what I meant. Despite DB hasn't given Vegeta his dub over Frieza, they are getting close to. Plus, he's more to Goku than Chat Noir is to Ladybug. And Vegeta is given plenty of dubs regardless, despite Toriyama not liking him
Ikr😭😭😭 They just hate blonde caracters I mean Emily is in a coma You know what happened with Chleo Rose has a deadly sickness Felix was abused very bad And I don't even need to say something about adrien
One of the biggest issues in the show is how it fails Adrien. He's intelligent and cultured but has an abusive homelife, which essentially makes him a fascinating protagonist, as does him having the power to destroy--which could be a metaphor for his toxic homelife. But he's never allowed much screentime or development, and his hero persona (which I feel is way too OOC for him; I feel like Plagg influenced him significantly) is made into a replaceable sidekick. I hope Zag's movie gives him proper respect.
Yeah I feel we should’ve had a few more Adrien focused episodes like “Lies” as he’s more of an interesting character as his life is more connected to the main plot along with his dynamics having more potential
@@BlueBlazeKing I feel like this became a requirement for me the moment season 2 dropped and it was revealed that Gabriel was Hawk Moth. I feel like it allowed us to see more of the father-son dynamic, but the writing is very poor, as Gabriel is willing to manipulate and use Adrien to support his own needs one minute, and then guard and care about him the next. It was always disturbing that the writers fail to have anyone acknowledge this. It's just "your dad is too protective, man."
@@OpticalSorcerer Exactly, if we had more time developing the bond between Adrien and Gabriel we could’ve gotten a more realistic and well told story of how Gabriel’s quest to revive his wife is affecting him and how he treats those who are left. But instead we got that one episode where Mari has to steal Chloe phone to keep Adrien in school.
@@BlueBlazeKing Considering how Marinette's friends condone her obsessive behavior, I guess I shouldn't be shocked thatGabriel isn't seen as abusive. Weird how Gabriel gets sympathy, but not Chloe or Sabrina.
It honestly make zero sense on how Adrien's whole life, his BIRTH, is the catalyst for the ENTIRE show to happen, and yet he's being treated like nobody important. Dude, he's the freaking son of the MAIN villain, who's goal was to bring back HIS mother. Heck, even excluding him from the finale and all that happily ever after yada yada is bs. It's THE FINAL confrontation with the main villain, his father, not to mention the amount of abuse Gabe caused the poor guy over the years, and suddenly all that trauma is poof gone. Like what, treat him better, he deserves better than... whatever the show gave him
Adrien didn't suffer abuse over the years, he was really neglected when his mother "died"and it was like a year before. He was a loved child, a miracle child, sheltered by his parents. the parents of a miracle's child, or a child that had suffered in their childhood could be really protective with their children. The problem with Adrien and Gabe's relationship is we know basically nothin about the first 14 yo of Adrien's life.
I like most things about the show aside from Heroes United and Ladybug. I really like Alix, Juleka & a Liked Chloe before they screwed her over. Thomas just keeps making Marinette look so bad and then acts confused when people ask him why he's doing it.
Oh I BEEN lost hope ever since the second episode of this season happened. I'm just going along the ride atp.💀 But hey, for what it's worth, atleast we got the movie now. 😂
@@90lancaster“I like most things abt the show except from Ladybug“ The show is literally called Miraculous Ladybug💀 (Yeah yeah it’s actually Tales of Ladybug & Cat noir but come on, nobody calls it Miraculous Cat Noir)
One thing that always ticks me off is how at the beginning master Fu had to chose one person to carry the ladybug and cat miraculous because only a few were able to, however in recent chapters we have seen the miraculous changing owners or straight up having Marinette use both when we were told that can produce an incredible power. If miraculous are now being given like candy to any person, it makes me think they aren't so special because literally ANYONE can use them
Socqueline is better Qualified to be Ladybug she's a Grand Prix Gymnast and Martial artist and is also creative too & she's well "sensible headed and emotionally stable too", and Zoe was just as good as Cat Noir when she was Kitty Noir, and well Alya has proven in Senti-Bubbler she's as good as or even better tactician than Ladybug. Where as when Ladybug was given the Cat Miraculous she was flakey both times, Marinette should be in the show as Multi-Mouse as a background character LOL & Ladybug should be Alya or Chloe and you'd have a way better show then as both those girls have more interesting character flaws and good points than Marinette's amazing ability to be "random" with Lucky Charms and to fall over on her face.
@@90lancasterdon’t get me wrong, I actually agree with some of your points, Socqueline could be ladybug, but she is just like Marinette, not such a big difference, so Marinette was the chosen one, and not gonna lie she did a great job being ladybug, the only problem was that she neglected cat noir many times, about alya she wouldn’t be so responsible, and about Chloe, there is no way she is getting the miraculous of creation or any other, and about Zoe, she did a great job, but so does cat noir most of the times, when he is useless that is the fault of the stupid plot but he has many other better qualities, for example when he was cat walker, he even was better than ladybug, but as cat noir he just do a great job and also manages to maintain a good chemistry between all his partners
@@Vladic-po6yh Weirdly it is only the power of "Luck" that would enable Marinette to be the Chosen one. as it isn't like Fu stalked her he just gave it to the 1st person not to let him walk into traffic, by that Logic Mr. Ramier could be Ladybug.
@@JayRedGear Preach! I know with Marinette being a super hero she is probably under a lot of pressure but she has good parents, good friends, and I think good grades. Adrien is also under pressure from being a super hero (even if he doesn’t act like it because they give him nothing) but his mom is dead, he has an abusive father, Ladybug treats him like he is incompetent, and he never gets to have a normal life because he is famous. Never knowing who your friends are or who just wants the perks that come with being famous. He is a very tragic character which they apparently forgot that they made him that way. I just want him to have a villain arc or something.
@@molly_parker_1847I agree Adrien is a tragic character but never seen as one due to the crappy writing Everything about is just pure tragedy and what is the saddest thing about his tragedy is that it is not seen as one
It's the tales of Ladubyg and CAT NOIR, not merely the tales of Ladybug. I can't believe they locked Adrien in a cell for the entire finale while Su Han, the New York heroes, and even Fei Wu had more to do. And seriously, Felix and Kagami were also absent for the entire finale despite being the two most important side characters as they had a direct connection to the villains. They should have participated in the finale, and Cat Noir absolutely should have confronted his father. It would have been the perfect boss battle to wrap up Adrien's character arc, as he finally stands up to his father for the final time.
@@pixelmagicbeat8131 so at least let thomas astruc state that chat is just a sidekick and let the show not explicitly state that the ladybug and black cat miraculous arent opposites and equals
Adrien really needs a dark kwami or whatever this series equivalent of black suit Spider-Man would be; have him slowly start to go villiain as he’s tired of constantly being manipulated, lied to, and treated like some object everyone throws to the side.
I think it would be good if adrien got spiderman powers and invented web-shooters so that he would change his costume and become much faster, stronger and even smarter+ adrien as mc Ofc with the cat miraculous
@@djpegao I could definitely see him maybe not going full villain but start to care less and less what kind of damage cataclysm does; the final moment could be him purposely aiming for the villains head instead of their akuma object.
The show is called tales of ladybug and chat noir but if you were someone who didn’t know that, you’d think the show is about just ladybug. Even before this episode Adrien/Chat Noir has been sidelined over and over again. Even if Adrien being a senti-being was the reason he doesn’t fight, why didn’t he STILL find out about the truth?? I was genuinely excited at the beginning of this season thinking Adrien was finally going to be apart of the story but nope. This was utterly disappointing. The finale could have so many different ways but they chose the worst way possible.
I think even in past seasons Adrien/Chat have more impact on show... Yea even if this show is around Ladybug they could give him more place, especially at the end. 8 year family drama in 5 seasons, and not only they still don't know whos behind mask, but also he live in sweet lie that his father, one of worst I saw in fictional, end like hero.
So, fun fact… the show is NOT called this in it’s native French. It’s just called Ladybug. The added “cat noir” was a marketing ploy for America because executives didn’t think boys would be interested in the show if it didn’t feature a male protagonist in some way. So the fact that the show is more about Ladybug and treats Cat as a sidekick not an equal member is exactly how it’s supposed to be. So the people you should be angry at isn’t Astruc, but the American executives who lied to you.
When someone asked on twitter why Astruc was treating Adrien this way in the show, Astruc basically said that's how it's going to be and just deal with it.
What is Cat Noir's role in the Miraculous Team is he identical in rank to say Pigella or Caprikid lower rank than Rena Rouge (who is technically Ladybug's apprentice), lower than Luka who seems to be Su Han's apprentice so he Luka may at some point outrank Ladybug ! 'who knows'.
Tbh, if this show ACTUALLY has the balls to make Adrian an antagonist (or at least rebell against Marinette) in season 6 after he's learned everything (that is IF he ever learns everything 💀), then I'll take back ALLLL the bad things I've ever said about this show. 😂..... well, not everything, but you get the point.
@Evelyn.Schwarz She always called Marinette out.. not siding with just Lila. In that retrospect was truthful. And -- In Season 1: It was Marinette's fault that no girl stood a chance for Adrien. She ran off Lila first cause everybody practically worshiped her.. Am I right or wrong? That includes Kagami. Okay, Marinette.. If AdriCat changes his mind and heart about you; you keep your promise.. Adrien is free on what he gets to do with his life and whom to love!
I feel like Chat Noir's irrelevance could be fixed if they made him an essential part of destroying an akuma. Maybe they could change it so that while Ladybug can capture the akuma or create a barrier that the akuma can't escape, only Chat can destroy it. Ladybug would keep the akuma stable and from escaping so Chat gets the final blow. At least he'd have a purpose to always be there so he doesn't feel second fiddle to Ladybug. Creation and destruction are supposed to be balanced and need each other but this show has episodes where Chat isn't needed at all. Sounds pretty contradictory
I thought the exact same thing! There’s absolutely nothing concerning Ladybug’s power of Creation that states that it has the ability to remove evil from things. Chat Noir’s Destruction would be way better suited; the entire De-Evilisation process is completely unnecessary. Nobody even thinks of Akumas as butterflies anyway, and they wouldn’t have to worry about Chat disintegrating them if Thomas Astruc wasn’t such a shithead about making Ladybug the only one to ever do anything useful.
Correct me if I’m wrong, I haven’t seen season 1 in a while. But in the early episodes wasn’t that canon? That the akuma had to be destroyed by cataclysm. It might have been a throwaway like that they obviously forgotten or pushed away. Either way it’s an awesome concept that really pushes the partner not sidekick rhetoric.
I think Thomas has been wanting to use a Cat Bug for years (heck the Luckly Charm Mech is even called Cat bug and she kinda looks like it too as Bug Noire)
Adrien should’ve been the protagonist it is LITERALLY his story. His dad is the main villain, the cause of him being the main villain is because of his mom’s death, and the only reason his mom is dead is because of him, which is the only reason why this show exists. That’s not even including the exciting subplot that they could’ve done with Felix. Marinette should be side character, she is the outsider to this story, she shouldn’t even know any of this. This is like if we focused on Star Wars through the lens of Hans Solo instead of Luke or Leia and then tried to have the “I AM YOUR FATHER” scene. IT DOESNT WORK. And Astruc wants to act like he’s just a prize for Marinette to obtain. I’m not even an Adrien stan or anything this is just good common sense and something people learn in a college creative writing course. 😒
Agreed. If the writers don't want Adrien to do anything in the show, then why is HE the one with all actually interesting drama? Why is HE the one with the strongest and closest connection with the villain? Why is Adrien even IN the show in the first place? The writers don't seem to want to use him and have knowledged that they give him so little to do in several episodes. Why is he even here if they're not gonna use him? A lot of the issues with the show, like Marinette's creepy obsession with Adrien and scattered villain connections, wouldn't exist if Adrien wasn't there.
Annoys me that Astruc's whole thing with Adrien is "Oh Marinette is Barbie, while Adrien is Kent" Basically Adrien is JUST armcandy, nothing more, nothing less. Already expecting another Cat Blanc episode where he DOES find out about all the secrets she's keeping from him, resulting in her taking BACK the rings she gave him, aka his amok. To CONTROL him if he ever gets out of line. Definitely like how the movie changed things, made them as EQUALS. Learning the other's identity with, would you look at that... NO end of world scenario. Gabriel not making a wish at ALL, giving himself up, moving on from his wife, AND that scene with Emile's ghost hugging them both is just wow.. Dang it astruc, THAT is how the season should have ended. Honestly I was expecting FELIX would have broke his girlfriend out at least in the finale, and take his cousin's place in the prison, maybe even reveal he LEARNED his identity as cat noir. Causing Adrien to combine the Peacock AND the Black Cat, and through some plot craziness he couldn't be controlled since he was in control of the peacock. But NO.
I like your idea a whole lot more, and I hate the fact after all that not just Adrien but also Felix did basically nothing in the finale. His backstory and his motivations, along with his reasoning for his actions in the prior seasons made sense but still besides being self aware of how cruel he was becoming and trying to change by finding love in Kagami he didn't really do anything that counts as in redemption enough for him to join Ladybugs team. I feel like if he did help Adrien and Kagami out in the finale like you said, it would've given him an actual redemption arc because sad backstories don't excuse actions that endangered lives.
They do everything they can to avoid drama, the Cat Walker thing went nowhere, he essentially started acting like Catwalker while dressed like Cat Noir ! Felix never approached Adrien seriously he went to Ladybug instead, Hawkmoth is believed to be Gabriel and Master Fu never really even talks to him about it, it's always how can you make this about Marinette. Heck the show barely bothers to remember Marinette's interest in Fashion now they make her look like a hobbiest who has given it up for super heroing and to be the Guardian. The show is even a bit vague on how Adrien has so many potions too.
Well the difference between barbie and mlb is simply that THE STORY OF BARBIE IS REVOLVED AROUND BARBIE, whereas the mlb one is mainly abt Adrien considering the fact that HE HAPPENED TO BE THE MAIN REASON WHY EVERYTHING HAPPENED.
He later says it the executive’s fault Adrian gets less screen. While I can believe that somewhat, his statement about Barbie and Ken makes it seem like he doesn’t WANT to give Adrian the screen time needed.
Your final point about Chloe's dad being made the victim, is what I wanted to type when I was listening to your video: This show has a HORRIBLE take on how it handles abusive households! All the girls from abusive homes were demonized, or rather, akumatized, at some point in the show. Adrien is literally made to WORSHIP his abuser at the end of the Agreste arc thanks to Marinette lying. Felix was treated as a villainous character up until he fell for Kagami and explained his actions had a pretty good reason. Marinette abuses Adrien in their superhero forms all the time yet he's her loyal side kick and in civilian life became her boyfriend! This show, if anything, teaches kids to hate themselves for acting out for their abuse and teaches them to stick to partners who keep abusing them. It's this message that has me wanting to puke whenever Marinette is rewarded on screen, and why I believe this show is downright harmful to children. Yet the good bits get me hate-watching this piece of trash. I heard rumors Astruc was leaving after S5, and I better hope its true.
Chloe : "Has anyone seen my Daddykins?" The Fandom : "Zoe's stolen him honey like she stole you role in the show your love confession to Pigtails" Maybe they decided they had to many close intimates to Marinette, they didn't want Adrien and Chloe to ever be "actual friends" at any point as that would be a distraction from the blessed Marinette. If Chloe got to keep her plots rather than taking Lila's then they'd have Kagami, and Alya in the mix, and still be pushing Luka and Alix off into the weeds too no doubt as they do now with Zoe and Socqueline & the girlsquad in general. As for Max, Ivan, Marc, Nath etc.. they may as well not be on the show at all. Even Juleka and Rose (unfortunately) feel like set dressing at times of Rose is only there for the show to mock. Marinette's Parents are barely doing anything for like 2 seasons now either.
I agree To be fair catnoir was SAing ladybug but she wasn't a good partner either but at least he didn't get rewarded unlike Marinette who actually got Adrien AS Marinette not ladybug and literally stalking him I just can't agree with you more on this comment if I can just like it a thousand times I would I like stories with actually themes of abuse , stalking and trauma so miraculous doing them SOOO horribly is just sad for me
Also since we are talking about abusive realionships and bad parents Can I bring up Marinette 's parents Am I the only one that think they are horrible? They literally know nothing about their daughter Do they know she is a stalker And breaks the law? They KNOW she got bullied (the first episode of the show literally implies that)but they did nothing about it Miss bustier too is not a good teacher she seemed to know about the bullying chloe did yet did nothing about it Yes she believed chloe can be a better person but did she ever try to MAKE her a better person I don't know talk or something Also in season 2 Marinette tried to make up the realionship between chloe and Audrey and how alike they are but doesn't that seems f**ked up? Marinette should be trying to make chloe realise Audrey is a horrible person and shouldn't be a mother to anyone
Okay, so for the past 3 years I have been ranting to my friends about how metal (albeit a bit cringy) it would be if Adrienne became the new Hawkmoth in the name of bringing back Gabriel after Ladybug accidentally kills him. The fact that, after *three damn years* , the setup is finally there and yet I have *zero* expectations that this is the way the story will go, is mildly disappointing.
Isn't it foreshadowing AdriCat's Villain Arc.. In her nightmare it shows Maribug battling a red dragon that turns into Gabriel and is killed by her; Adrien asking Marinette or Ladybug why did she kill his father? Importanc of who did he say it to? Ladybug or Marinette?
But to do that Adrien would have to have a Personality, I suppose Cataclysm can sometimes cause electrical disruption but not like that. I do wonder where Felix got to in the ending though, as having him pinch the Butterfly and be up to no good would be an option too. I kinda Wish Lila does loose it for the time being though. Say she wakes up and it's gone and they don't show who took it, Maybe it's Adrien, Maybe Felix, Maybe Chloe, maybe Madam Tsuruge. Tomoe or even Amalie would be something I guess.
The fact that marinette is lying to Adrian about his dad being a hero and helping her defeat hawk moth just feels so gross like I was on bored with the relationship but now I hope Adrian breaks up with her
This show is doing Adrien dirty! It is absolutely infuriating! Things will most likely be bad between them if Marinette doesn't tell Adrien the truth. I also find it infuriating how she refrained from even telling Cat Noir that Gabriel was the villain! She is keeping WAY too many secrets from him! Adrien deserves to know the truth! He needs to stop being left in the dark!
I want them to break up it would be disappointing to many but in reality they never even made a good couple. They’re just two people in the same class that all of a sudden fell in love. One thing I don’t get is how for 4 seasons Marinette is “just a friend” but in some random episode Adrien just suddenly falls for her? 🤦🏼♀️ WTH! (Also another thing is they have to keep secrets from each other I wrote my own scene of them breaking up in the rain lol. Also sorry for how long it is)
“Adrien and Marinette are made for each other” me personally I wouldn’t wanna be made to be with someone who constantly lies to me and is currently lying to me right now😑
Well there is a lot of different sorts of it. He's hardly alone in the current trend of pushing males down as a means to rise female characters up, I don't think partnership, cooperation or trust instead as a means to build Ladybug up ever crossed his mind, much as Marinette has made little to no attempt at self-improvement unlike some of the others. The Miraculous improves your base skills so if your base skills are stronger you are a stronger holder. Except Marinette who seems to wing it based solely on luck and creativity / planning. Yet they actually showed she's NOT A PLANNER until 12 months previously. So Is that the self-improvement, I don't think so when they show her having panic attack out of anxiety because of it.
Exactly the worse outcome happened, the ending felt creepy in a waiting for the other shoe to drop! The way too happy ended felt unreal and unearned. This is wild no?
I issue with this is that they marketed the show as Duo Protagonists. And now MANY seasons later the show is ALL about Mari? And in a plot where it greatly involves ADRIEN'S family? I call Bullshit. It feels like the moment they gave Chloe a redemption arc in season two. They kicked out someone important without our knowledge, and the story went down hill from there. Who ever that was it's clear that they gave some importance to Chloe and Adrien that Thomas Heavily Disagreed with. And not only got rid of said person. But Thomas is SO petty, dude went out of his way to ruin what that person wanted to do. By ruining the characters they wanted to shine during this Saga.
An equal male and female duo is so much more interesting as it's not commonly done. Even Cardcaptor Sakura had a better relationship with her "sidekick/mentor"
@@90lancaster oh yeah. Sakura and Syaoran are GREAT examples. Despite coming in later episodes, and even though the show IS called Card Captor Sakura, Syaoran was treated very well as both a rival, a teammate, and a love interest. Everytime they are together they always worked as a team. Helping each other out. If one is in trouble the other saves them. They're even dating now for Pete sakes, and they have the most adorable interactions.🥰 Although I think the original pretty cure is the best example of having Duo protagonist. CCS is also a great one, especially with the romance plot aspect.
what really makes me mad is that season five was doing great with his character up until now. he got to unify the rabbit; he defeated safari; and we saw him grow more and more resilient against his father.
ye all thatfor the finale to be weak and just saying he can't do it, and marinette discovering more things about him, she basically knows him better than he does
This season is just a culmination of all the things Ive had a growing issue with this show as of season 3. Marinette and her writing, the exclusion and butchering of Adrien and the terrible treatment if Chloe cause the creator has a weird bias. This is just..........I cant anymore
Also having Luka find out their identities in secret and then just shipping him off instead of making him relevant to the story until the last episode. Like cmon Luka also had so much potential as a character and he was done so dirty. And I'm also pissed that Chloes fucking dad got a redemption arc and basically abandoned her for his new daughter instead of stepping up and trying to be the change she needs. Like bro what the fuck.
Thomas Astruc spends way too much of his time bashing a 14 year old fictional character. He literally calls you out if you say that Chloe is a good character, as if you had made a personal threat to him or something. Such a manchild
@@gabblebabbles2017ou see, that's what bugs me. Not only did they write off Chloé's development in place of a goody goody cookie cutter version of her, even her own father, knowing fully well how toxic his wife is, let's her take custody of their child in place of Zoé like what? Even if he didn't want to take responsibility as a father, did he have to give up his child to her emotionally abusive mother? If he really was a good father n cared about Chloé, he could have gotten her help. Get her a therapist, send her away to a boarding school or institution that'll straighten her. Literally anywhere else but Audrey yet even he couldn't do that. I feel awful for Adrien n Chloé. Their family failed them n yet they still get sidelined or completely written in place of 'perfect' replacements with little to no closure.
For me S3 was best, cuz of irony storyline. I liked that it, at the end, show that Mari and Adrien can be with other person and still be happy. Also episodes were more serious and still funny. I dont't watch whole S4, but some episodes were good. But in 5... I think after lose Miracolous some characters seem irrevelant to producers, like Alix or Luka. I have nothing bad for more Felix, but his sudden relationship with Kagami, take out from nowhere, only fact they sentis (i don't like that idea too...). Made Chloe redempt to at end treat her as villain? I woudn't have anything for that if she lost place after finale of S3 and then Lila take her place. OMG Lila is another example... from simple bully with easy lies she came to be super agent, with three ID/families, powerbase, time for conspiracy and magic wig.
Adrian’s story should be a tragedy. This man should be BROKEN. Everyone has lied to him, he’s been shut out by his closest friends, his family is the sole reason all this has happened, he lost his father with his most trusted partner being responsible for it. Adrian needs his Joker Arc, falling to despair and destroying France. And Ladybug would be forced to put an end to it, meaning Adrian must *DIE.*
Maybe not die but yes he needs a villain arc as he finally gets tired of it all and unknowingly becomes just like his father to force people to finally respect him. As I’ve said in another comment Assuming in his universe claw noir is still Adrien maybe claw could convince the main Adrien to start on that path by being the one person to treat him as an actual thinking, independent, autonomous living person. Yeah he and shadybug would still lose in the end but his words stick with the main Adrien and he starts to develop for the worst.
I agree with all of this except for the part about Marinette being responsible for Gabriel’s death. Gabriel brought his own death upon himself, and if anything, Adrien would most likely blame himself instead of Marinette, because it was his own cataclysm that sealed Gabriel’s fate.
My friend, same…. I’ve known a LOT of people for leaving the show…. I’ve left many times but also always came back because I’ve watched this show longer than any other show so I tried to give this a chance…. After S5, THE FINALE WAS THE FINAL STRAW FOR Me! I quit…… I’ll watch the movie… as a way of saying goodbye to a show that had SOO much potential.. but only left me with SOO much DISSAPOINTMENT! I blame Thomas….
Keeping Chat Noir out of the final fight is one thing, but not telling Adrien the truth about his father is just insane. And is something that should come back to bite everyone in the ass. The funny thing is Cats actually hunt moths. They ENJOY eating them; that is literally perfect symbolism of having Adrien take down his father, and they do nothing with it. It's like the writers enjoy making a bad story all in the name of "subversion."
I saw that tweet (well, I saw a screenshot of it) and it reminded me of Ryan Gosling, the guy playing Ken in the upcoming movie, going "Nobody cares about Ken," and I'm wondering if that's the attitude he wants us to take.
You’re right about Adrien being portrayed as weak-minded and fragile. And it’s annoying. He already touched monarch with his power and next episode he took it well, season 4 finale he was the one encouraging ladybug to keep fighting, he’s proven that he has what it takes to resist an akuma, this was his moment, this was meant to build him but nah, they continue lying to him over and over as if everyone in that show wants him to stay perfect.
I think, that the reason to exclude Adrien from the filnale was "woman empowerment". Astruc treats this as Marinette being a strong female character, who does not need a man to help. Some episodes ago he tweeted something like "Ladybug and Chat Noir are equal, but she is the leader. Do you have something against a girl being a leader?" I regret to say that, Astruc, but you are too late for the party. It's not as innovative anymore. When it comes to Adrien becoming Chat Blanc after realising the truth about his family, it can be easily solved. Marinette could just hug and comfort him to show, that he has someone, who cares for him and loves him even though he is a sentimonster.
That tweet of his honestly pissed me off because he is acting like people have a problem with Marinette as the leader and doesn't understand that Adrien (the other main character) should be given equal screentime and development. I've made a comparison to Kim Possible and that show did a better job with it's female lead. Kim is the leader and Ron is the sidekick, yet the show treats Ron with respect, having him help Kim out a lot in conflicts, having his own story and development and his relationship with Kim was more organic compared to Marinette and Adrien.
Well joke is on Astruc, cause yes I do often have an issue with a girl being the leader. Why? Because the writing usually sucks when the girl is a leader! Now, I don’t say that because I think a girl/gal leader can never work as a character or that a boy/guy as a leader is always good just because of their gender. It all comes down to character and execution. One of my favorite leader characters is Hiccup from How To Train Your Dragon. Why do I like him? Because he’s smart, intelligent, resourceful, cunning, a bit deviant when he wants to be, respectful, flawed, makes mistakes, and actively tries to improve himself. He’s always pushing himself to be better, learn from his wins and losses, never let’s himself be above anyone, and RESPECTS his friends/teammates, even though they hated him at first and drive each other up the wall. They will disobey and act up around him, of course, but when it counts they’ll fall to Hiccup for guidance and have his back because they know he has theirs. While I’m not into Legend of Zelda, I do get the sense from fans and general stuff I read that Princess Zelda is a wise, resourceful, good leader. She does what is best for others, respects Link and others, and is generally a pleasant person to be around. She sounds like a good representation of a female leader. Princess Peach is probably similar, as the Toads adore her and she has shown in various media that she’ll lay her life on the line to help and protect them. Then there’s various characters like Suki in Avatar: The Last Airbender, some of the girls from Code Name: Kids Next Door, various ponies/creatures from My Little Pony: FiM, and probably way more than I can think of right now. Those girl/gal leaders work because the writers made them worthy leaders to follow first, and didn’t place too much emphasis on their gender to the detriment of being a good character. Some are written naturally strong and well, some have to grow into their position, and others fall in a mix. Like good leaders who are boys/guys, the creator will let them grow and make mistakes if needed because it makes them more compelling as characters. And that’s the problem with girl/gal leaders like Marinette in modern media: they either don’t learn or grow from their journey and mistakes, or they are never allowed to make mistakes. There’s numerous times where Marionette/ Ladybug had the perfect opportunity to grow and develop, such as accepting advice from the Guardians or letting her teammates voice their opinions and lead. But no! The narrative won’t let her be anything less then perfect and the few times she does accept she messed up, it’s executed very poorly or quickly hand-waved away in an episode reset. She’s not a good leader not because of something stupid like her gender, but because of bad writing trying to make her seem like a good leader but revealing 99 reasons why she sucks!
Ya know, reading this made me remember a quote of Animal farm that said, "everybody is equal, but some are more equals than others" Is miraculous just animal farm XD
I think they didn't want Cat Noir to "mope" like he did in season 4, also it is yet another secret that everyone is keeping from Adrien to bite someone in the backside later on. I expect Adrienette will break up over this at some point.
Its also so sad how Adrien had absolutely 0 personality in season 5. Only he ever spoke about is Marrinette. He had absolutely nothing else in his life. No wishes, no goals. They ruined him
What he wrote on his college application was lowkey insane “I don’t know what I want to do in the future but I don’t care as long as I’m with Marinette Dupain Cheng”
The only reason why Adrien was akumatized was because Gabriel found out he is Cat Noir not because Adrien found out his father is the villain and his mother is in a cryogenic coma in the basement
We hit the rock bottom again. Adrien is the LEAST important character in this story despite having everything revolve around him. This series seriously makes the dumbest decisions. Maybe it's the times, maybe the author is somehow some kind of genius because he knows that as long as : "it's a girl's show" he can keep this merchandise selling. But honestly, I feel bad for every fan of Adrien. I hope they never get asked why they like this hamsel and what sets him apart from any other minor character with a miraculous. They will literally break down in a depression when they realize how insignificant he is.
They should re boot the show and make Adrien the main character honestly his story is A. A lot more interesting than Marinette’s B. His conflict with Gabe should take center stage I mean they have been building up the moment they would fight each other since season 2 with all the “can I call you grandpa” or “if I was your son” lines plus all the alternate timelines episodes. C. They could explore his character much more and play around with the senti monster thing a lot more rather then shoving it in Season 4 with no previous hints like they did in canon. D. I think they could make Felix and Adrien twins, could you imagine all the stuff Felix could have pulled imagine he finds out both Adriens and Hawk Moths identity and then is conflicted about what to do with that information. E. Adrien being Cat Noir is a lot more interesting then Ladybug and Mari, I mean Cat Noir is the only way for Adrien to be free and be able to actually express himself without needing to be perfect for his father, it’s also the only way he can get around without being bombarded by crazy fan girls. Meanwhile Lady Bug is just a braver and less clumsy version of Mari
"standing in the crowd with the rest of Ladybug's pokemon" holy shit that is the best way someone has ever explained the other heroes, god they just arent even characters at this point, may as well be cardboard cutouts running around
Every time I think about the finale I get mad all over again. Every solution you suggested is so much better. Yes, I know Adrien has been akumatised every time he's found out the truth, but either a) Gabe refuses to do it this time because of his own character growth (if they wanted a redemption arc this would have been better) or b) this time he breaks out of it because it's Marinette on the line and their love is stronger than ever. Either would have been way more in keeping with the show's attempt at themes. So much wasted potential and pointlessness...
I really wanted him to make an amazing development and to fight till the end, to hold it in himself with no emotions and to show that he is strong, but the finale was just awful
You know, a couple of years back, after being thoroughly let down by the show at the end of Season 3, I wrote an essay entitled, "Miraculous Ladybug is No Longer Worth Watching Until We Get to the End...And Let Me Tell You Why". I started out about the things I initially liked about the show, how it was a hodgepodge of Western action cartoons and Magical Girl anime, which, on paper, just shouldn't work. But somehow, it does. I also talked about a few of the things I liked about Adrien, as a character (which the show has evidently gone out of its way in the last two years to try and destroy, for the most part), and used him as an example of what made the show unique, how it took tropes from both Western cartoons and anime and put unique spins on them. But then, I went on to address the elephant in the room. Thomas Astruc may have been influenced by Magical Girl anime, but he clearly wasn't paying attention to one thing that ultimately has to happen in that genre. Specifically, how "the structure of a story arc inevitably has to shake things up by getting to the part where all the secrets between the characters are laid bare, the final battle with the big bad takes place and everything pretty much goes straight to hell before a happy ending is reached. But while that is AN ending, it's not THE ending, because after that, a NEW arc takes its place, which generally sees the main characters faced with new relationships, new responsibilities, and ultimately, a new, different, more powerful enemy who's inserted themselves into the picture and made it their life's mission to take away everything the good guys have. This helps, not only with world-building, but also to give the audience a chance to actually enjoy the payoffs that came from the previous story". Unfortunately, that was the rub. Even from the early days of Season 3, it was made PAINFULLY clear that Astruc and Crew didn't HAVE an idea for a story arc after this one (unless they had been sitting on plans for a follow-up movie or two, which would have been nice, but still not an outcome I'd bet money on). So they'd basically been left with no choice but to keep the show running in place, with all the characters left in their assigned little box and no one was allowed to move forward, "BEYOND-THIS-POINT", because no one on the creative side knew what that was supposed to look like, beyond how they wanted the series to end. Essentially, I ended my thesis by saying that I was more or less done with the show and would only MAYBE come back during the final three or four episodes when things would finally start moving forward. And for the most part, as I picked up little crumbs of information here and there, I was largely proven correct. Through Seasons 4 and 5, none of the moments that the show touted as being big, important events actually mattered, because they were just minor detours to eat up as much screen time as possible and ultimately, everything would just go right back to normal (or as normal as this show would get, anyway). But then I found out that this arc had FINALLY ended, and when I checked it out, all I got was, "WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT?!"🤯 I mean, never mind the fact that it isn't actually revealed what Gabriel wished for (Astruc dipping into yet another anime trope, this time, the one where the creator tries to APPEAR higher-minded than he actually IS, by using "cryptic obfuscation" as a substitute for not coming up a genuine ANSWER to give to the audience). But at literally the LAST-POSSIBLE-SECOND...he tries to give GABRIEL AGRESTE...the narcissistic, emotionally-stunted, neglectful-to-the-point-of-being-outright-ABUSIVE, MAIN VILLAIN that he just couldn't let go of for FIVE YEARS, because he couldn't think of anyone to FOLLOW him...an actual REDEMPTION?!?!?! WHAT in the blue HELL, people?! I mean, I know that, by accounts, Astruc is a vainglorious, self-aggrandizing, control freak, just like Gabriel is, so it makes sense that he'd identify with the prick. But that's hardly an excuse. Immediately, my thoughts turned back to Seasons 2 and 3, when Chloe was actually growing out of her role as a one-dimensional stock character (and, as I pointed out in my essay, when you’re three Seasons deep and the only one who’s shown ANY kind of overarching character development is “the bratty rich girl”, THAT should have been a signal right there that this thing had already been idling in Neutral for FAR too long). Then we got to end of Season 3, and what did they do? In one episode, they went and ERASED everything they had done with Chloe for the last Season-and-a-half. And when absolutely EVERYONE came after him for it, Astruc tried to justify himself by going, "Oh, but I don't like Chloe and you're not supposed to like her either and she doesn't deserve to have a redemption". 😩 Then why did you GIVE her one, Stupid?! And more to the point...just a minute. You're making it sound like that whole thing with Chloe was an ACCIDENT?! But this thing here with Gabriel was DELIBERATE?! What the HELL kind of ASS-BACKWARDS thinking is THAT?! And then, when Astruc realized that NO ONE was going to take his side on Chloe, he STILL tried to have his cake and eat it too, by introducing Zoe into the mix as a blatant attempt to pacify people and go, "Well, okay, I'll...I'll give you this character and...and she can be like...'Good...Chloe'. Will that make everyone happy?". NO!!! Because Chloe was the ONLY character that you were actually making INTERESTING!!! And to that point, I have to disagree with your video, ever-so slightly. You mentioned at a certain point that Marinette is actually dealing with all her problems, while Adrien isn't allowed to. But the thing about that is...has she REALLY? Yes, I agree that Adrien is still the one in the dark because he’s being neglected and lied to by the people he cares about the most (and we should certainly bemoan that fact, because it's just shady as all hell and he's always deserved better). But because Marinette's power has always been to reset everything back to zero, whenever she can't do that and there are actual CONSEQUENCES to be faced, her default response has always been to just cut and run (the way this Season ended was just another example of that). And while I get that this was by design, to keep AGONIZINGLY dragging out the central arc, it just makes her look SO weak and ineffectual, as the central hero. In fact, I can't help wondering if that's a primary reason as to why Chloe got shafted as badly as she did, because she was the only one showing legitimate growth and was actually getting to the point where she would have arguably overshadowed the two supposedly-main characters. The only thing that I would add here, is that as far as a better ending goes, my personal suggestion would be to just move in the direction the show was originally aiming at, back in Season 2, when Fu revealed the true nature of the Creation and Destruction Miraculous being used together...that it's not omnipotence as Gabriel believed, but equivalent exchange. In order to get what he wants, something else must be sacrificed, but Gabriel has no say over what that is. Meaning that to get his wife back...ADRIEN has to die. Faced with the loss of his son and a wife seeing him for the monster he's become, Gabriel becomes a deer in the headlights and just shuts down completely, leaving Marinette as the only one who can fix everything and bring Adrien back. How does she do it? Damned if I know. But doesn't that ALREADY sound like a better wrap-up to this mess than what we got? Anyway, that's enough of my ramblings. This has already gone on too long as it is, except to say that I think I'm about done with this series entirely. Enough is enough. I'm burned out. This show started out with so much potential, but all that goodwill has just been pissed away. I need to move on with my life. I think we ALL do. At least, that's just MY thinking on it.
Cat Noir has lost his sense of Humour as it seems Thomas can only write pratfalls and cringe and not puns or jokes. & it was winny that was giving him his charms in season 1-3.
@@90lancaster Well, here's the thing about that. This is another quote from my essay, regarding things I appreciated about Adrien... "What REALLY grabs you is when you look at the tropes they use throughout the show (both from western animation AND anime), and how they manage to put a unique spin on almost every single one of them. What has to be the greatest example is how Cat Noir, Ladybug’s partner on the show, is portrayed mostly in the “dopey sidekick” role, similar to what you see on shows like Kim Possible or Star vs. the Forces of Evil. Magical Girl anime also uses a similar element where, in order to keep the main female protagonist front and center, the male character is sometimes made the butt of a joke in order to keep them from stealing the show. However, with Miraculous Ladybug, Cat Noir isn’t portrayed as the goofball of the team because his abilities don’t measure up to those of the heroine. In truth, his abilities actually surpass Ladybug’s in many respects. The twist here is that Cat Noir is the goofball of the team because he WANTS to be the goofball…because any time he gets to spend, bouncing around Paris as this happy-go-lucky, devil-may-care superhero, is time he DOESN’T have to spend, thinking about the dreary circumstances of his normal life; the plight of a truly kindhearted soul in Adrien Agreste, who’s bursting with love to give, but gets none of it in return from those whom he needs it the most." The bottom line is, in Seasons 1-3, Adrien LOVED being Cat Noir. It was arguably the ONLY thing in his life (outside of going to public school with other kids his age) that he genuinely ENJOYED doing. But then Seasons 4 and 5 took that all away from him, and suddenly, he's JUST AS miserable being Cat Noir as he is being Adrien. And how is that just not WRONG, on EVERY conceivable level?
@@fictionlover695 Okay, I tried to link you to the essay, but the comment kept getting deleted. And the essay is too long to post in one go, so I have to split it in half and send it to you this way. Sorry, but it's the only thing I can think of. Hopefully, you still find it insightful... Miraculous Ladybug is No Longer Worth Watching Until We Get to the End...And Let Me Tell You Why This is really something that’s been on my mind for quite some time now. Something that’s been sticking in my craw, if you will. And over the last few weeks or so, it’s simply gotten to the point where I can no longer keep these thoughts to myself and I just HAVE to get them out of my head and out into the open. Of course, it’s taken me quite some time to finish this little thesis of mine, mostly because this kinda means a lot to me and I don’t want to be accused of expressing any half-formed thoughts on this matter. First of all, before we go any further, let me just say that, in NO way, am I a hater of the show, “Miraculous Ladybug”. In fact, I’m quite a big fan of it. I love everything about it, at least so far as the concept goes. I mean, let’s look at what it is…a French animated series which combines elements from North American cartoons, such as Danny Phantom and Kim Possible, and mixes them with elements from Magical Girl anime (Toei Animation also co-produces the show). And on top of that, you’ve got a main character who’s half-French/half-Chinese. I mean, could this BE any more international? Maybe if Colors by Benetton was sponsoring it (and with that statement alone, I realize I’m kind of carbon-dating myself). But it’s such a mishmash of styles that, when you think about it, there’s no way this should possibly work. Yet, for some reason, it just DOES. But that just gets the show’s foot in the door. What REALLY grabs you is when you look at the tropes they use throughout the show (both from western animation AND anime), and how they manage to put a unique spin on almost every single one of them. What has to be the greatest example is how Cat Noir, Ladybug’s partner on the show, is portrayed mostly in the “dopey sidekick” role, similar to what you see on shows like Kim Possible or Star vs. the Forces of Evil. Magical Girl anime also uses a similar element where, in order to keep the main female protagonist front and center, the male character is sometimes made the butt of a joke in order to keep them from stealing the show. However, with Miraculous Ladybug, Cat Noir isn’t portrayed as the goofball of the team because his abilities don’t measure up to those of the heroine. In truth, his abilities actually surpass Ladybug’s in many respects. The twist here is that Cat Noir is the goofball of the team because he WANTS to be the goofball…because any time he gets to spend, bouncing around Paris as the happy-go-lucky, devil-may-care superhero, is time he DOESN’T have to spend, thinking about the dreary circumstances of his normal life; the plight of a truly kindhearted soul in Adrien Agreste, who’s bursting with love to give, but gets none of it in return from those whom he needs it the most. Pretty deep, huh? I could list all the other examples, but I don’t have all day and this is going to be long enough as it is. My point is, as a sucker for anything that’s even MODERATELY original, I was immediately drawn in by all the twists they put on these classic, sometimes clichéd, tropes. It’s a fantastic hook and they should have me hanging on every episode. So what happened? Well…in a word…”nothing”. To be more specific, “a whole LOTTA nothing”. See, Season 3 has recently ended and we’re still in the same story arc we were in when the series began. For the most part, the show has been running in place and simply maintaining its status quo. Granted, that’s a formula that might work in the case of North American cartoons, where (depending on what show you’re watching) most changes are purely superficial. But when it comes to Magical Girl Anime, because of its formulaic nature, the structure of a story arc inevitably has to shake things up by getting to the part where all the secrets between the characters are laid bare, the final battle with the big bad takes place and everything pretty much goes straight to hell before a happy ending is reached. But while that is AN ending, it's not THE ending, because after that, a NEW arc takes its place, which generally sees the main characters faced with new relationships, new responsibilities, and ultimately, a new, different, more powerful enemy who's been inserted themselves into the picture and made it their life's mission to take away everything the good guys have. This helps, not only with world-building, but also to give the audience a chance to actually enjoy the payoffs that came from the previous story. The ultimate example of this is (and always will be) the anime/manga series, Sailor Moon. In the first "Dark Kingdom" arc, we see the team get together (particularly Sailor Moon and Tuxedo Mask, after which, their relationship blossoms throughout the rest of the series). After that, came the "Black Moon" arc, where we caught a glimpse into their future. From there, came the "Death Busters" arc, which saw the team expanded upon with new members, each coming to the party with their own emotional baggage. And then there was the "Dead Moon" arc, where, among other things, revelations were brought to light about Tuxedo Mask, of which, he was previously unaware. And through this discovery, he ultimately learns that he DOES, in fact, have a role to play on the team besides just being (LITERALLY) "the odd man out". I won’t get into the fifth (and aptly named) "Chaos" arc, since that was where everything more-or-less went completely off the rails. I also feel the series SHOULD have ended with the Dead Moon arc, since it was pretty much where the series peaked...at least as far as overall character development. But I digress. I'm pretty sure my point has been made. Taking into account the fact that Miraculous Ladybug borrows so heavily from Magical Girl Anime, I think a lot of people were hoping that this was the kind of upward trajectory the series would ultimately take, with characters and relationships evolving and growing and us getting to enjoy that journey. Obviously, I’m not saying we should be on a fifth arc by now, or anything. But after three Seasons and still not having moved past the FIRST one, a chance to finally turn the page and see the characters enter a new chapter of their lives wouldn’t go amiss. (Especially if you consider the fact that they pretty much spoon-fed to us how the climax of this arc was going to play out, way back in early-Season 2, even if it wasn’t revealed how it will ultimately be fixed.)
@@fictionlover695 Unfortunately, even from the early days of Season 3, it was made PAINFULLY clear that Thomas Astruc and his creative team don't HAVE an idea for a story arc after this one (unless they're sitting on plans for a follow-up movie or two, which would be nice, but not an outcome I'm betting money on). So they've basically been left with no alternative but to essentially take a knee and just run out the clock until the show ends. This means, in order to keep the balls in the air, all the characters have basically become ensconced in this little bubble of time, where everyone has to be kept in their assigned little box and no one is allowed to move forward, "BEYOND-THIS-POINT", because no one on the creative side knows what that’s supposed to look like, beyond how they want the series to end. Now, for anyone reading this and immediately wanting to argue, “What are you talking about?! Lots of things changed! What about all the new transformations Marinette and Adrien have had?!” What about them? I mean, that’s great for merchandising and potential toy sales, sure. But is that really anything more than just lipstick and mascara? Has it allowed either of them to change or grow as characters? Go back over the last three Seasons and seriously ask yourself…has either of them seriously progressed AT ALL? Marinette still tucks tail and runs whenever she’s faced with the prospect of having to deal with ACTUAL consequences that her powers can’t magically fix. And Adrien is still the one in the dark because he’s being neglected and lied to by the people he cares about the most. “What about all their friends becoming heroes, too?” Okay, as an olive branch, I’ll admit, that’s another thing about this show that I appreciate, because this is another one of those anime tropes I alluded to earlier that it put a unique spin on, as well (specifically, the one of the super team with “part-time” members, who each have specialized talents and are only called in for certain emergencies). But is this really a concept that couldn’t have begun in this arc, and then been expanded on in future ones? And again, is it still anything more than just lipstick and mascara? For all the other characters that have gotten to enjoy a “costumed hero” gig, it really didn’t change who any of them are, at the end of the day. They’re all still the same characters they were when the series started. They just get to...do this...every once in a while, now. Even Alya and Nino, for all the alterations to their circumstances over the course of the show (becoming a couple, becoming heroes, learning each others’ secret identities), it’s ultimately never meant anything, because there was never intended to be any consequence to them. I mean, it’s not like they’ve moved anywhere on the board, either. They’re still in their relegated roles as the supportive best friends…”the wingmen”, if you will. That was never going to change. Granted, it’s kind of nice (or frustrating, depending on how you want to look at it) that at least SOMEONE’S gotten that romantic switch-up that we really should have seen given to Marinette and Adrien by now. But once you realize that nothing Alya and Nino go through is supposed to matter, because they’re not the focus of the show…well…that’s pretty much what you call the definition of “low impact”. Arguably, the one character that could actually be said to have changed AT ALL, over the course of the show, was Chloe Bourgeois, who, from Season 2, had begun growing out of her role as a one-dimensional stock character and (in MY eyes, at least) was actually becoming INTERESTING. And to that point, let me just add, as a little side-note, when you’re three Seasons deep and the only one who’s shown ANY kind of overarching character development is “the bratty rich girl”, THAT should have been a signal right there that this thing had already been idling in Neutral for FAR too long. But to perfectly illustrate my earlier point about keeping all the characters in their assigned little cubicles, the Season 3 finale recently dropped. And what did they do? In one episode, they went and ERASED everything they had done with Chloe for the last Season-and-a-half. Really guys? The ONE character you were ACTUALLY building up and you went a tore her down? What was THAT about? I mean I COULD just be an out-and-out troll and accuse them of doing it, simply because they didn’t want Chloe to come too high and ultimately steal the spotlight away from Marinette and Adrien. But I’m DESPERATELY hoping that it wasn’t done for any reason THAT cynical. “But what about Master Fu? They wrote him out at the end of Season 3. Isn’t THAT a big deal?” Was it? Again, was this anything that a second or third story arc couldn’t have taken care of? And in any case, what was REALLY the loss? I mean, Marinette may have called him “Master”, but it’s not like he actually TAUGHT her…or Adrien…ANYTHING. He simply cherry-picked which secrets to divulge that were simply no longer convenient for him to keep. Even at the end, it was obvious that he hadn’t told them even HALF of what they NEEDED to know…and he was never GOING to. So it’s nothing to say he’s suddenly left them flying by the seat of their pants now, because that’s pretty much what he’d been doing this whole time. “But what about Hawk Moth? He’s…”…Oh, don’t even TRY! So he’s picked up an ally/henchperson along the way. So what? It’s not like he’s actually DONE anything with it, which is why that teaser at the end of Season 3 amounted to absolutely nothing. He’s just going to stick to formula and keep doing the same crap he’s been doing since the show began; a picture-perfect example of Einstein’s theory of insanity…doing the same thing over again, expecting a different result. All-in-all, I think my point’s been made, don’t you? Until we get to the final four or five episodes of the series, where things are ACTUALLY going to start moving and shaking, there’s just no point to it anymore. No one on the show is going to move forward, they’re all just going to be diverted sideways in these roundabout detours, only to end with them all right back to Start, while the writers simply tease us with a bunch of “should be’s”, “could be’s” and ultimately, “not’s”. Dangle as many carrots in front of us as you want guys. But how many laps around the track does it take before we start thinking we deserve a bite? So as much as it breaks my heart to say it, I’m getting off this merry-go-round right now. Yeah, there are still more of Marinette and Adrien’s friends who haven’t gotten their chance to wear the spandex yet. When that happens, I’ll watch the clips on UA-cam. But until the show actually GOES somewhere and DOES something, expect that to be the maximum amount of my attention span you’re going to get. Seriously…who’s with me?
I remember when I was in the fandom and I literally read/saw better comics with them than the actual show Like, people in fandom saw potential in BOTH of them and used them BOTH. I quit miraculous only because of the original plot - cause it sucks as hell
I appreciate this video a lot. People like to assume Miraculous Fans hate the show just for fun, just for no reason but it's way more complicated than that. You pointed out everything that is wrong with it very well.
Season 5 felt very strange to me in relation to other seasons. It was more fast-paced, not necessarily a bad thing. But the way that some of these decisions were written is just inexplicable for these characters. In particular the episode Derision stood out to be as really undermining Marinette's character and makes it very hard to believe that she would ever have anything to do with Kim again, give him a miraculous at any point, or even be able to cope with the stressors of being Ladybug in the first place. The "theme" of the show, and why I fell in love with it, was always "A chaque problemme, il y a un solution-- to every problem there is a solution". It was Marinette's creativity and ability to use Lucky Charm as the perfect puzzle piece to defeat the villain that made the show so appealing. Marinette's unbridled creativity, her dettermination, and her willingness to put in the work by hand to achieve what she wants. Season 5 felt like she was just getting kicked over and over, and that message was lost. The Bug Noir V. Monarch fight was very rad though, gotta say... Until Marinette's brain turned off and she detransformed right in front of her mortal enemy as a "show of good faith", of which there was clearly none. The Kwami's even tried to tell her so. What a joke.
I remember when I got into miraculous ladybug back in 2016 or 17 and I saw that there was a theory that hawk moth was Adrian's uncle and that hawk moth was Gabriel's twin brother who was secretly in love with Adrian's mom and that truly Adrian was really hawk moth son and Gabriel took over his brother's life when he realized he was evil and took Emily and Adrian away from him and that's why he was really a kooma ties in people and I honestly wish this have been the plot of the show at this point for his character cuz it would have made sense as to why Gabriel was kind of cold to him cuz Adrian's not his real son he's his evil brother's son and he just doesn't really know what to do with him or I don't really interact we could have had Gabriel to his own way trying to bring Adrian's mom back cuz he was in love with her but instead of him being hogmaul he could have just been the one making potions and different things are using all the money and resources he had trying to figure out how to save her alone the other end his brother would just went evil he never knew how to stop him
I kinda liked the idea that Gabriel was a Senti-Monster the entire time. Oh and anyone else notice Kagami doesn't make sense yet ? All Tomoe did was go blind, where as Mr. Fathom died and Emelie & Nathalie nearly so, why ? That is why I joke she's actually and Android and the real Tomoe died prior to them leaving Japan.
THE WRITERS SHOULD BE EMBARRASSED OF THIS WHOLE MESS!!! Adrien doesn’t deserve this treatment! Jeremy Zag was a better writer. But honestly, I don’t want Adrien to be a villain, I don’t want the kids to be upset.
I knew for a fact that after that horrendous finale made me lose any respect I had left for the show. Not only did they just cart Chloe off they also did to Adrien. Basically it's showing, Cat Noir is a sidekick he's not important compared to Lady Bug. And that redemption towards Gabriel, like what? Did the writers forget the abuse he made his son go through not to mention extorting people's emotions causing actual literal of thousands of dollars of damages to the city, risking people's lives, (you cannot tell me not one person has died during Akumatization attacks) and what he gets a damn statue? For what, because he didn't want Adrien to know what he did? I call BS. I heard supposedly Thomas left production, and if that's true, hopefully they can redeem this show. But at this point I don't know if I even wanna go back anymore.
Luka left and came back, Alix left & came back, so I guess Chloe will show up again too. even if only so they can keep being so horrible to her. Supposedly she does feel bad about Sabrina and does try to make up with her at some point.
@@90lancaster I would love that so much, honestly this would be a good opportunity to make her learn humility, being away from her friends and make her go through some self reflection and see if that's really the life she wants to have.
@@user-soneinewholazyforcontent I wanna say yes, (especially since I heard that supposedly Astruc left production) and there's since a chance that Chloe could come back after getting a taste of real life away from her pampered life in France and start developing. But at the same time I have so much doubt that she would, especially after what she did
You have really good comedic timing! Made me chuckle a few times. Great points too! ^_^ Yes, the show is very off base on who the focus should be on and excluding the one most involved in the conflict was a mistake.
I believe Adrien should’ve been the protagonist. He is closely related to the villain which makes it seem like that the build up to that fight between him and monarch would’ve been better than with the villain’s son’s girlfriend.
Astruc and his writing team feels like first time writers because Marinette feels like their first ever OC hence why her traits are impossibly OP and has an evergrowing list of people that fell in love with her; while Adrien is their secondly created character hence the sky high trauma list yet still has horrible writing due to their lack of experience. Its why I latched on to the Miraculous movie Jeremy made so quickly because even though the pacing is a bit off the concept of that alternate reality of the show makes much more sense to me especially character-wise.
Worst part is that I know how they could have solved the issue. If someone had freed a random akumatized warrior and the one was Adrien as he did activate the ring. They were able to teleport around and then with him back he can turn into Chat Noir those damned chuckle heads.
5:43 I asked Thomas austruc via twitter why she was so shocked abt Gabriel being Monarc even tho she knew it from the previous episode and all he said was that sometimes ppl don't believe or realize things until they see it with their own eyes well I had a little discussioun with him and some other ppl on twitter but after some more tweetes he just stopped answering but yeah idk austruc really makes the worst decisions but can't even logically explain them
If I could ask Thomas something it would be: after everything he's been through and all his convictions about not frivolously creating life... why did Felix make 'Once Upon A Time' in that episode?
@@JesseGolo That's what I was wondering abt like why did felix of all ppl created a sentimonster Wouldn't it be better if he and kagami confronted marinette in person and then we'd get to see some flashbacks? Like there were so many things that made absolutly zero sense just for the sake of the "bugnoir" storyline which is really sad I've been watching this show since I was 7 and now I'm 15 and the most important part of the show- the confrontation between Cat Noir and Hawkmoth just didn't exist The part I've been waiting for 8 full years was thrown out for a couple fighting sceens and some more relationship drama between the main ship (which we already had 5 seasons of) but yeah austruc really has a talent for destroying everything that has great potential
@@JesseGolo I think he made it as brainless as possible on purpose o he'd feel less guilty about killing it, he wasn't especially pleased about them killing Strike Back either though.
The only way to make this finale work is to make adrien either become a villain or anti hero He would start hating marinette and even join lila The chat noir villain/antihero arc He also needs to get a major power up He has to become untrusting and paranoid kinda like batman since EVERYBODY lied to him i wouldnt be surprised if a dog start lying to him next season bro HAS to developp major trust issues
One of the scenes I can't believe was when Cat Noir went to London he decided to say his identity to Marinette and when he is about to her room. He said that I can't disappoint my father. Like.. what are you saying a father who don't care about his son, a father imprisoning his son in a white cube room, a father who takes his son away from the love of his life. If I had a father like that I'd ratherdisappoint him and tell the truth to Marinette
I totally agree, Adrienne should have in this finale, he was part of Gabe's story. Lady Bug and Cat Noir fighting against Hawk Moth would allow the fight to be even more powerful and epic and after defeating the two, making his son watch as he gives his life for the mother even more heartbreaking. Just imagine the lines said to Adrienne instead, "Don't remember me for the villain I became but the father who always loved you." That would have been more epic than "Girlfriend of my Son, keep my secret to keep him happy." Adrienne gave up his protagonist role and was shuffled off screen as the maguffin in Gabe's story. I can only guess this was done to keep more loose ends open for the following seasons, like when Adrienne finds out the truth.
That is likely why the showed Cat Blanc so much saying Adrien is to easily manipulated due to his lack of Freewill into being akumatised and then that resulting in doom for everyone.
At this point I'm over the main characters. Marinette is creepy, Adrien never does anything and now that they're finally, romantically together, I can't find many fans that actually care.
I would love it if Adrien discovers who Monarch is, let his anger take over and kills his father. That would be more satysfying than hearing lies about making Gabriel looked like a hero when he; destroyed the town multiples times by turning citizens into villains, never cared about his son untill he got cataclysmed which is selfish; when your healthy your not with him but when your dying now your nice? That doesn't make sense! Also, he tried to kill Adrien because he didn't know that his kid was Chat noir. Sacrificing his life to revive Emilie is NOT enough to erase all the horrible things the adult did. I can't forgive him and Adrien too shouldn't. His father deserved a punishment, dying in his wife's arms is less painful than being killed by Chat noir. It would be more satisfying plus Adrien would realise how horrible his father was and won't want to be like him 🙂
It's sad how they miused Chat/Adrien. I know the story roll around Marinette, but he's also titular hero. He's good example how even "rich kid" can have bad enviroment (like family) and still fight to be better and for himself (and not bully like Chloe). And damn, what they do to him in finale was idiotic, not even involving him in his family story... this show writing is such a mess...
It's funny to me that Adrien Agreste is the same character type as Chibiusa from Sailor Moon, they both have the same roll on their stories but Adrien, sadly, doesn't have something like Chibiusa's Black Lady thing. They both feel lonely, they both have sassy irreverent personalities, they're both related to a villain important plot, they're both very close to the protagonist and both characters best friend is a black cat (one is a ball and the other is Plagg), it's disappointing considering that Black Lady is one of the most memorable things on Sailor Moon and the fact that Chat Noire has even MORE reasons to become a villain than the Small Lady. Adrien is always pushed aside, ignored, no one trust him, his teammate hides more and more secrets from him every day, his dad was the villain, all that madness is to resurrect his mom and absolutely everything that is happening is because he was born, can you imagine what they could've done with that feeling of guilt and loneliness? Black Lady would be terrified if Chat Blanc was something properly written.
It would off been cool if Adrien/ Cat Noir had been present to help Ladybug defeat Hawkmoth an arc for season six could off been Adrien constantly worry that he could be come just like his father.
A plotline that isn't about his relationship with Marinette? Are you kidding? This is the character who, on the form to figure out what he wants to do with his life was like: "I don't know. I love Marinette."
In my opinion I think they should've gone with the original dual protagonist thing like constantly switching point of views and giving both Adrien and Marinette equally important scenes and roles. Adrien is more connected to the lore of the story but in day to day things he couldn't exactly be out for 5 seasons unless Gabriel approved, and Marinette is a lot more proactive in that regard . All and all, the show would've benefitted if they gave equality to both protagonists instead of just Mari
I feel like most of the fandom agrees with you man. Adrien was done dirty. The only hope for season 6 is if Thomas stays away from the show and has no say in anything
I agree with you Astruc is good at worldbuilding but he isn't that good at writing narratives, compare that to the movie where Astruc wasn't involved with it at all, if we got a movie style direction by giving both Adrien and Mari equal roles in the next season I'd be down for it
Part of me hopes Adrien will find out the truth about his father in season 6. Possibly hold some resentment toward Marinette/Ladybug for keeping it from him and depriving him of the chance to say goodbye.
My idea for the season 5 finale. Felix frees Adrian and Kagami from their imprisonment. Felix explain how Monarch basically is using the alliance rings to trap people in a dazed state and currently Ladybug is facing off against him. Adrian powers up into his astral cat form to get back to Paris. Adrian arrives and helps Ladybug fight Monarch. Monarch is too powerful and manages to knock out cat noir. As Gabriel is about to take the cat miraculous Marinette grabs the unconscious Cat noir and tries to wake him up. Noticing that she can't beat Monarch alone she gets the idea to take the cat miraculous and powers up to Bug Noir. The 2 battle and while this happens Adrian wakes up noticing he's detransformed. He noticed Ladybug unified the cat and Ladybug miraculouses and is fighting hawkmoth so goes to see if anyone else was safe in the house. He finds Natalie's corpse and finds a video message from his mother on her tablet. He watches the video and realises the identity of Hawkmoth. He goes off to stop hawkmoth from fighting Ladybug. He tells Gabriel to stop this since this wasn't what Emily wanted and that they could still be a family together. Gabriel tells Adrian that he needs to do this and reveals the cataclysm mark on Gabriel. He apologized to his son and uses second chance. He fights Ladybug and gets the upper hand on her this time around. Adrian arrives and sees Ladybug detransform back to Marinette. Gabriel uses venom on both Marinette and Adrian. He detransforms and faces his son one final time before apologizing for everything he's done and hopes this will make up for it. He makes his wish and Gabriel dies, the public is aware of his villainy, Marinette and Adrian are dating fully aware of each other's secret identities but in the shadows Lyla takes the butterfly miraculous as she takes the title of the next hawkmoth. Now there are a couple of plot holes here and I did take some of your ideas but hopefully this would be a desired ending everyone would like.
To be honest putting Adrien in London would be considered responsible move considering that Gabriel and Nathalie were on their death beds, so in that role would go to his aunt who lives in London. That's what I thought, but he put him in isolation room 💀
16:09 Istg though, instead of making Gabriel want Adrien to end up with Kagami, just make Gabriel hate Marinette. It makes significantly more sense and would probably work better for the plot anyway.
I hope adrien gets a villain arc from this (i have no faith). Like he deserves it. Honestly after this, he should not trust anyone anymore. I really want him to bergrugingly work with laila. I feel like they could have a cool dynamic. And adrien literally has the power of distruction and can use it unlimitedly now. That is super op (not like the show will let him be) But obviously the writers wont let the villain arc happen. 😞
I hate the "wait for next season" excuses. They've used it this whole arc, now we're at the very end of it, and some fans will still justify any plothole with "it's too soon to judge, let's see season 6, then 7, then 8..."
Exactly and what does that even make of news fans who want to watch the show? That they have to wait and slog through 5 seasons of mediocrity until season 6 and 7 suddenly gets good??? Screw that
Doesn’t lila know everything about Adrien and his father being hawkmoth/monarch? I guess a major reveal in season 6 would be where lila tells Adrien the whole truth (sentimonster) and he just feels betrayed and goes crazy lol maybe Cat blanc 2.0? Idk for me personally season 1-2 were the best. Everything was simple only 5 guys had a miraculous. Ladybug and Chat Noir duo was present. And not everything was so complicated. But since we have a new villain now (I’m sure Lila will also somehow find out who’s ladybug) the show could go a route that no one would expect. I just hope that the show will end in like maybe 2-3 seasons with marinette taking all the miraculous back and only chat noir and her being left as miraculous holders. And of course the identity reveal needs to happen WITHOUT someone setting the time back.
I don’t understand why they nuked Adrien & Gabe’s final confrontation when they were CLEARLY building up to it in part 1 of the finale when Cat Noir was beating down on Gabe when he was “akumatized” when trying to find Adrien. Like the writers clearly see the drama there but then they just….don’t do anything with it. And now it’s going to just continue to be never addressed, or be used as trauma porn for his storyline in the future because he never got a proper confrontation.
THIS IS SO MEEEEE literally you took the words out of my mind with this video (with the difference adrien is my favorite character so this finale just was 100 times worst)
The guy making the movie version isn’t he coming back and I hope he reboots the whole show well actually season 3 and the rest of the season after that.
Sebastian and Jeremy are supposed to be more in charge of Season 6, but they are supposedly doing a Miraculous Movie Sequel so they might wander off to do that at some point.
Wanna know something? Even the chorus of the German intro of miraculous doesn’t include chat noir. They don’t say 'miraculous, simply the best' etc.. they say 'i am ladybug, I bring you luck and strongly believe that it succeeds' instead and even in chat noirs part it’s all about ladybug 😭 so yeah it’s all about her
To be fair, "Miraculous Ladybug" actually IS the original title of the show. The "Tales of Ladybug and Chat Noir" part only came when it was dubbed to the other languages, probably to attract boy viewers since there is this idea that boys don´t watch shows about girls which unfortunately can be still true. So based on that, Ladybug/Marinette was always meant to be the one and only true protagonist. It´s just weird how the story and even the entire characterization of Marinette was designed to revolve around Adrien.
I’ve said it on another video but I’ll say it again Adrien is one of the most tragic characters in the whole show. Abused by everyone including his friends, marionette, ladybug (I’m saying these two separately because he doesn’t know they are the same person so he has different experiences with both ladybug and Marinette) the writers and his own father. Adrien was pretty much a sheltered trophy boy who couldn’t even be himself because of his fears and insecurities and desire to make his parents proud to compensate all he asked for was friends and a normal life. Instead he encounters a girl who thought he was an bad guy before getting to know him, being stalked and harassed by her so much that he views her as a friend and gets gaslit by everyone that everything is completely normal. Then he becomes a hero and gets to be his true self only to have his limelight stolen by Ladybug who he falls for and let’s walk all over him because no one told him how love works and what’s wrong or right in it so he’s pushy but tries to do everything to make sure she succeeds even when she makes mistakes she’s forgiven no conquenses, meanwhile he gets scolded and beaten down for every little thing he does wrong. He’s abused and neglected so bad he even akumatizes because all he wants is for all the pain to stop. He becomes a sidekick even though he’s been put to the side his whole life and if anything gets worse when he finally falls for marionette she lies and gaslights him to view his own terrible father as a hero. So all that abuse from long ago? Nah can’t be bad turns out his dads a good guy all along. I really hope Adrien snaps and gives marionette what she deserves. I would rather have a whole season from his perspective. If I missed anything feel free to add to how badly adrien was treated in this show.
honestly they could have made this work if they just let gabe be nuanced. arguably the man has a understandable plan. pretend to be a villian by creating a 'villian' to create chaos so the ladybug and chat miraculous will be forced to be activated to stop it since he couldnt track it down a different way(since fu was in hiding). if he wins he knows he will free the victim and reverse all the damage with the newly aquired ladybug miraculous. then he will use the wish to wake up and cure his wife from the damage she had from using the broken peacock to have a child who can then just return to regular wife since they have the 'missing' cover story. probably saying she went away to get treatment she didn't know would work or not where she didnt want to get her families hope's up or be seen if she died...but yay she's back and healed. have it where they don't know all the details about the wish since they didnt have a translated version of the book(since fu and the guardians were gone and everything). and so its not like he had professionals to go to for a alternate way to save her since teh guardians were gone and its clear they had already tried science and other routes to fix her. and him showing he was the mastermind as hawkmoth to the public keep the blame on him and not the akuma victim. the victim won't remember what they did. which can minimize the trauma and he has teh illusion of consent since they have to agree for him to akumatize them. and if he wins he will reverse the damage and if he loses ladybug reverses the damage...so gabe has the illusion that no one would REALLY get hurt. AND he has the illsuion of contrl as hawkmoth since he can take away powers and talk to the victim so he probably thoight he could control things enough he knew no one was in actual danger. this is actually PERFECT because a normal person could actually easily convince themselves of this pretend to be a villian plan to lure out the thing to save a loved one..especially if there is something so no damage is permanent..and him seeing this from afar would increase that sense of distance...what he's doing IS still bad...but its also at its core a pretty simple understandable plan that does have safty features. If they make it that while gabe APPEARS unreasonable and mean...it turns out its all a act to get under people's skins to create akumas for a chance to save his wife and give his son his mother back it creates way more nuance where we can judge him for it but its raises more questions...like in collector...gabe made a show of making a mess t set up a scenerio of akumatizing himself over a book he wasnt actually that angry about but was a good way to take suspicion off himself logically...and we saw him genuinely worried about adrien when he came too from collector and he apologized to adrien properly and spelled out how gaeb was thoroughly in the wrong even though adrien did steal and lose the book. and when mari returned it...gabe actually was imressed and acknowledged that took bravery for her to come forward about it after adrien was already in trouble and he didn't shout or berate her...he was understanding. even agreeing not to tell adrien she took it when she asked. was proud she admired his son adrien and even answered her question about where he got the book even though it was sensative information. alot of moments change once you relize gabe might act mean or do something bad to get a akuma specifcially and it might not ACTUALLY be what the thinks. like point out that gabe and the mom had roles they relied on...like how she was better at emotions and gabe was more disipline and rules like some dad and moms are as parents,....but he wasnt ready for her to be gone so doesnt know how to be a single parents for adrien and fill that void...and instea dof getting better at it wanst to bring her out of her coma since he thinks that best for adrien. assuming himself(gabe) is bad at emotion stuff ratehr than it just being about lack of practice. how technically gabe's issue was that he knew the mom was alive(in a coma but aive) and that he was busy trying to save her but he forgot that adrien DOES NOT have that context and taht from adrien's perspective the mom went missing after being very sick and most likly disappeared to die away from her family and that his dad is probably in denial about it and is throwing himself into work to distract himself in his grief. adrien wants to support his dad and have his dad's support through the grief but he thinks his dad is in denial and that his dad is both distancing himself andbeing controling at times as a unhealthy way of handing his emotions. the set up is THERE for nuanced Gabe. heck even him being so much worse could have been addressed properly EASILY if they just connected it to the side affects from using the miraculous. they had established that a Major side affect was literally going INSANE. gabe was not chosen OR trained to use the miraculous nor screenedfor mental strength. they made a point of showing your mental state while using the miraculous has a significant affect on the miraculous, the wearer and the power. even just a LITTLE bit of off emotions can throw off the balance as just master fu's resenment toward tehr order mixed with his honesly innocent intention of getting food while knowing he wasn't supposed to result in a sentimonster that ate all the guardians and had a singleminded focus on eating all the miraculi which scared fu to the point of taking the miraculouses and trying to flee again despite decades of silence.
your telling me gabe using the miraculous DIRECTLY affecting emotions for personal reasons due to his grief, desperation, justified anger that his wife was hurt, fear if his son being without the mom and with his 'i can fix it' mentality where he was amplifying his OWN goal of saving his wife and getting the miraculouses and putting that singlminded goal with his amplified negative emotions into all the akumas who's anger and hurt he could sense and ALSO feel Daily, if not multiple times a week WOULDN'T have a affect on his untrained unvetted mind? considering akumas can seem like they are incontrol or think they are when in reality they are very difficult to reason with, volatile over stuff(even just their name) and not thinking clearly due to akuma influence. and we saw that you are almost compelled to agree... where even marinette struggled to resist? Gabe's bad writing ends up looking a BIT more compelling once I noticed he was showing the same symptoms as the akuma victims. hyper fixation where it was a struggle for them to see other options to their problems or that what they were doing wasn't actually helping them and normally something thye would never do(like a grandmoth trying to blaster her granddaughter and her friends for example). getting more agressive. could get oddly simpleminded or miss pretty obvious options. like the dude didnt think to use the timetravel miraculous for hsi wife which nathalie roasted him on?(like I want to believe he didn't becuase he knew that for adrien to exist teh wife needed to do use but couldn't tell nathalie that and didn't want to risk adrien's life)(but it honestly still works as his weird fixation on the miraculouses where he missed a obvious fix not using the wish. how the dude did stuff weridly out of character and way mroe evil which made NO sense for his character motivations that were careless...like the WHOLE newyork debacle (freak NUKES and the MOON were in danger but even more the permanent damage to the city when he could have just had the sentimonster go around til ladybug and chat actually appeared so all the damage would reverse like he normally would)or hongkong. him putting his loved ones in danger without really thinking about it when normally he gives off protective vibes which we know was athink before hawkmoth and we saw on startrain. like we've seen some akumas snap ot of it a bit. santa getting distracted by a present for him trap, melanie refusing to attack ivan cuz she loves him even in horrificator, nate seemingly convinced to not attack choe due to a date with mari, darkcupid realizing theres no point in hitting chloe but still attacking other people. not to mention using it the wrong way but also using multiple miraculouses all at the same time...like yes he found a loop hole that wasnt tried before but that doesnt mean its perfect and we saw mari struggle even with her own but also that it wasnt tried before like that and that people have literall gone insane. heck how gabe is more agressive/volitile as hawkmoth/in the suit....like gabe definitly wasnt great with his son but actually if you look closely he DOES actually give in to adrien more often then you'd think. letting adrien go to school, in collector with his apology and owning up he was in the wrong and needs to trust adrien more, letting adrien go to the music festival after he actually talked with adrien properly for a bit, letting evertone stay for a christmas party during the christmas special, letting adrien go to marinettes birthday and giving advice on the charm, it was a lie but he did let adrien go to newyork and let himself be 'convinced'. apologized and did sit down with adrien about the mom's movie...but its usyually only after having actual moment or mire time with adrien as gabe....but only when gabe actually hangs with adrien for a bit...which might actually remind gabe properly of his proper emotions unlike as hawkoth where he is seperated the most from adrien even more...like how evenwhen your trying to talk or distract a akuma you need specific people...but even then akumas can turn agressive and justify that aspect of themselves. just have the show ACTUALLY point out that gabe was getting worse and worse and thinking less clearly due to having used the miraculous wrong and amplifying his own negative emotions and using multiple at the same time... so he is LITERALLY more unstable...still responsible for what he's doing of course but it gives a extra sense fo tradgedy once you realize that gabe might not know about those side affects...even more nathalie who helped enable this man so he could save his wife...unknowling seeing him get worse and worse due to the miraculous but not realizing she was enabling someone she cared about to destroy himself...like someone suing a drug or alcohol pushing themselves toward burning while thinking more was teh answer to their problems. that way we see that gabe WASN'T always this bad/abusive piece of shit and it can be affect just like how some adults lose themselves due to grief and struggle to come out of that. it would even have a hint like back in simon says when gabe was literally willing to almost die where the akuma turned him into a airplane were he was going to jump off a rooftop...but also in how adrien hd tried convincing his dad of the danger and to go to safty and chat noir and gabe's interaction hinted that gabe is stubborn and doesn't take care of himself. which can also touch on his pride becuase gaeb thinks no one is in actual danger and that he is in control...like rememerb when adrien jumped off the tower with akuma gorilla...on the surface its easy to say gabe is horrible and abusive and almsot killed his son...but gabe GENUINELY never actually thought his won was in danger there becuase he thought his son was chat noir and that he;s transform...but once it occured to him he might ACTUALLY be wrong he released ladbug to save adrien...but til then gabe genuinely never thought he was actually putting adrien in danger. even the newyork gaslighting shit.....TERRIBLE of GABE 100%. but also from gabe's perspective he was keeping his son safe by sending him back to Paris and just wanted to do it quickly and efficently which wasn't entirely wrong...and consideringthat town did also still have villians..gabe was thedanger and horrible...but he was using his reputation to be unreasonable...just as he using his reputation as a greiving isolated weirdo to get away with being a ass and people thinking he's just bad when he is being that bad purposfully to get akumas to save his wife.
I hate gabe to bits but if they had just NOT undercut every nuanced moment the man had by undermineing his feelings toward his wife and son he could still be terrible but it would at least logically make sense where you understand where he got like this where he genuinely thinks he means well..with te tradgedy that his grief and him amplifying tryingt to get the miraculous and his negative emotions and feeling like he was failing his family it could REALLY work. even him being a ass if you realize he might be acting that way on purpose to cause akumas it calls some of that into question...and were the more outlandish agressive stuff is due to the insane affects from the miraculous. honesly I don't hate marinette. the problem is what they show us doesn;t match what they tell us we are seeing and what they are implying how we are suppoused to interprete her...which understandable will get under people's skins because if they tell us she's super nice and perfect and emans well all the time then it makes her flaws we CLEARLY see stand out becuase she honestly ISN'T that nice. so like you...its easy to say she's horrible since its not being called out and we don''t want that behaviour considered as good or unproblamatic when it clearly IS a issue.....but then other people will think she is being written wrong becuase they are telling us she's perfect and nice and good at other times but its not matching what she shows. and then otehr parts it can seem like only her flaws ro issues are notice or adressed since thats what the show says its gioal is with her learning lessons. honestly mari actually is written pretty consistant ...once you throw out the idea she has to be a perfect rollmodel and we aren;t suppoused to see her as 'right' and justsee her as a flawed character she is actually great. I actually LOVE more selfish/self focused flaws. like I've seen people say she is forgiving to a fault and puts up with so much...but its atcually WAY more interesting because she isn;t inerently good....but she also isnt inherently bad either. she tends to suck at reading other people or accurately guessing how they are feeling. she can be good at sympathy sometimes but not empathy most of the time and she does GENUINELY care about her friends and will go out of her way to help them...but she also sometimes wont handle it the best. like I think one of the best cases what guiltrip. she assumed the issue was about her with julieka and made it more abot her at first and unlike adrien who was a good listener and let julieka vent and who wanted to follow what julieka wanted(which was to keep it private fromthe rest mari brought everyone else over). mari was focused on "FIXING' the promlem. a problem solver type...while not the best at the emotion part with julieka and rose as we saw marinette was also one fo the big ons who couldn't hide that she knew and couldnt act natural at all. mari was 100 percent good intentioned and some stuff did work out...but we also clearly saw her flaw in her method as well compared to adrien who was softer about his approach and actually DID treat rose normally and didn;t dismiss what julieka had wanted. its true keeping it secert wasstressing julieka out and if mari hadnt outed alot fo it some of the stuff might hev been resolved for a while...but arguably adrien was more considerate about keeping the power in julieka's court. Marinette cared about alya's stress baout not telling Nino and tried to give them time for a date and all that and had listened...but we also saw her problem solving habit kick in because she was influenced by her own view a bit too much that alya didnt REALLY feel listened to/that her feelinsg were being validated by mari becuase mri was focused on just reminding her that nino couldn't know logically and comparing it to her situation with her parents...like it was mari's attemt to relate to her but it did come across unintentionally on her part as dismissing alya's issues a little which was WHY alya was still stressed enough with guilt that nino picked up on it. heck mari never finds out that mari telling alya to strait up lie to nino directly about not being rena anymore did amplify the issue when ladybug could have told him herself first...or even just said the secert hero thing..since it made alya feel more guilt which nino picked up and misunderstood...but it also had nino think it was fine to tell civilian adrien about alya's identity since she wasn't rena anymore. the thing is mari isn't bad. we see her worried about chat and ask if something was wrong after rockateer. has a list about how to handle chat that shows she thinks about him alot and some of it was genuinely sweet. we see her worry about her friends and want to help and genuinely feel bad when she messes up. and she does value chat...the issue is she doesn't actually think from the other persons perspective well especially when she's in a stressful situation/has her iwn thing going on..which is honestly like most teenagers. she understandably rightly judges choe alot because chloe bullies her and she doesnt have to see things from her perspective.... but it never occurs to her chloe might be going through stuff that makes her like this(the retconning/destroying chloeto be unredeemable we are outtng aside cuz thats trash). she is understandably distracted by akumas and hr own stress but it doesnt make her bad/abusive...just kindof thoughtless.... like she berated chat because understandably chat had agreed to stay in newyork and assured her thats where he'd be...just for her to find him in newyork while knowing there is a attack on paris they are stuggling to get to because a villian is getting in their way and unlike him she is used to having more information due to master fu and tikki and due to how to cope with stress she collects info. more over chat didn't immedatly tell her what he was doing in newyork...logically we know its tied to his identity so he can't tell her...but especially because chat is acting normal/a bit goofy and just going to fight the villian infront of them she MISINTERPRUTS Chat noir as not taking the situation/the danger seriously. WE can tell he is trying to focus on defeating this villian because logically the faster they beat it the faster they can go to paris and that this talk wouldnt help right ow because he DID genuinely mess up by not telling her and not watching the news closer. but mari saw it as him being goofy/not taking thedanger and her anger seriously which is why she exagerated her anger and hurt more to make a point not realizing he WAS taking things seriously and just comparmentalizing...and chat normally has very thick skin and is the confident one. remember he was fine with offering a friendship flower and said he'd get some for himself and was the one who inspired her in origins even when they both messed up and were strangers. the chat she knows has thick skin and bounces back and he is normally able to take her stress in strdeand knows when she really means something or if she's exagerating to make a point and to take it as exageration and salt(like in gamer 2.0 and bubbler she was snappish but he didnt take iit personally and knew it was stress. chat is the confident one who always bounces back and doesnt give up even when things were really bad(like the loss of master fu and origins when she was spiralling). like she's lifted him before quite a few times even in antibug...but normally its just cuz she feels like it or a response to someone else...chat/adriem himself is pretty confident in himself and showed that aspect to her...like she's shown a bit of vulnerable sides here and there but usually undercut with a joke eventually to cover it up abit. he can normally take it and SHE knows she doesnt REALLY REALLY mean it and that she's angry at him and stressed...which normally he DOES know.
Mari doesnt really realize the impact she has on other people and uptl now chat HAS goofed off a bit when it comes to akumas were it IS easy to forget how serious he is about it. and she trusted him to stay which he broke. the RIGHT answer would have been to putaside her anger for lter and focus on the villian infront of them so they could solve it quickly and then speed to paris...but mari is a teen and its the first big attack while she's not there and where not even chat was there and mari is known to spiral and snap when stressed. then the adults chase after them after chat ends up catacyminganon due to being distracted by ladybug's words and she fixed it. and then she had to face she wasn't able to fix thedamage for the first time...and she's never actually SEEN chat noir spiral with context by that point. like.... there WAS simon says but she didn't know his personal connection and she could keep a cool head since she wasn't thrown off her game. in newyork she was spiralling herself and he's normally the one who snapps out of it. sowhen chat spiralled she was unable to stop it/didnt properly react to stop it in time cuzhe moved fast that by the time it hit her how serious he had stopped listening and booked it. she's not bad...its just a weakness she needs to work on under pressure. like chat/adrien is better at it. like he is understanding and sooths her weven henthey make a mistake and makes sure she feels supported andcalms her down but he also isnt spiralling himself during most fo those and empathy/putting himself in other people's shows is a strength of his even with his lack of socialization an its true...unlike mari he doesnt assume the worst and doesn't assume from the get go that she has a bad reason...it doesnt accure to her chat has a valid reason to be there in newyork because she struggles to picture people outside of the bix she sees which is normal for a teen. and she was immediately horrified by the loss of chat...but its not like plagg told her it was plagg;s idea for chat not to tell her. he was just gone. she still doesnt really understand the impact of her words but she did do her best to let him know she needs him in the video from anon.
and again with adrien...mari doesnt realize how highly adrien obviously values her words...which is honestly obvious but was stronger becuase unlike everyone else mari had validated his want to go on the trip and helped make it happen. and he was already feeling at fault and like he made a mistake coming and that he was a horrible chat and that there was permanent damage to paris so he had looked to mari to validate that she felt he should stay orthat she wanted him to ar at least that the time he spent there wasnt wasted...but due to her emotional stress in general and nt realizing how much adrien values her words she was slow to respond and held back again. mari mean well...she's slow to respond. even later like in wishmaker...yes she can sound a bit dissmissive of chat saying he didn't have a childhood wish...but mari tends t project her OWN expereinces on things and chat generally seems happy and social n how he portrays himself AND she is stressed from her own risk of her wish making her maskless and the akuma in general so didn't realize how he was serious. she did try to sooth him a little but it makes sense fro a teen to not get it. with max she was distracted by her own want which was the train with adrien in videogames that she convinced herself it was fine despite alya reminding mari that maz had been training for months and looking forward to the tournament and she trusted max that he was fine. but she did eventually her motive wasn't good and offered her own spot to make nce she was confronted how negative he had been feeling.and she felt genuinely terrible about it. even alya when she told alya to lie to nino about not being rean anymore....mari was genuinely trying to be there for her and relate bringing up her own experiences...but kept getting side tracked at reminding alya just to keep the secert and aving logical reasons which didnt actually make alya feel listened to...and she asked alya to lie instead of just telling nino herself as ladybug. mari meant well...just wasn't connecting entirely... same in guiltrip mari had assumed mari was the problem with julieka burtsing into tears which was very self focused...but she did genuinely want to cheer her up...but her fix it mentality kicked in where she brought in everyone despite the fact julikea wante to keep it on the downlow and told her so...adrien was better at listening to julieka and keeping the power in julieka's court...and adrien was better at actually treating rose and julieka normally unlike mari who couldnt help meddling and who did not have a good pokerface. chat has a life outside of being chat bt mari forgets that sometimes because she only sees chat noir as chat becuase that is something she struggles with. needing to be told how someone feels more directly to understand better is needed for mari in a different way that adrien. mari tends to judge a bit quickly and have assumptions already made where it can be a struggle for her to adjust it a bit to the change...lieknhow mari assumed chat's feelings were just him bantering and joking all the way til darkcupid where sometimes she needs a bit of a reminder he's serious....but also sometimes eh projects how she handles her OWN crush onto chat.... not realizing that chat genuinely did mean the flower platonically and was actually interested in kagami. or how sometime chat just wants to express his feelings and doesnt actaully expect her to change her mind or anything like that when unlike him mari is very goal oriented when it comes to her confessions and wanting the feelinsg returned. girl isn't abusive..just a bit thoughtless...especially because she is busy AND because chat DOES actually purposefully hides/doesnt approach his problems with her much....first is cuz adrien is considerate and like with his father he knows she is under alot of stress and wants to lift the weight for her so he does what he can. but that has a issue where mari tends to need someone to directly tell her the issue. how is she suppoused to knwo if chat doesnt't tell her...and chat/adrien has a bad habit of hiding how much something bothers him fro a while before he blows up. like plagg had no idea how much adrien disliked being left out of the master fu loop in siren until adrien blew up...and we were also surprised because adrien didn't show it. but she did still approached master fu about it like he asked her to do. chat was ALSO purposefully hiding how affected he was by arriving late to akumas or after it was over. everytime she DID notice something he assured her things were fineso how is she suppoused to know? even in kuroneko her answer was to sooth the public clearly...how was she she suppoused to think he forgot about her answer in the newyork special? she thought she already gpt across how important he was to her.
simple asnswer - Astruc is on crack witht eh writers and has favourtisim over a good story and lore..relies on fanfics and theories for future plot...etc. excuses and ignores valid criticism..Like dang-with Chloe..Luka and Chat Noir's downfall..Felix and Kagami ohh my...just bad
I read the miraoclus bible last year. (the one leaked all the story up to season 5) but the fact that the bible was an old script makes me sick. I remember reading the last episodes script and even the old scripts said he wasnt going to learn he wasnt going to be in the fight, bugnoir etc. I thought it was STC. It should have been STC.
It’s crazy being able to watch the downfall of a show that is definitely reboot worthy. I’ve only ever been on the other side of reboots. This is great.
What truly amazes me is that this is literally adrians father!! I somewhat understand that mari doesn’t want chat blanc to happen but its possible for that to not happen, it sucks..i really expected adrian to have more light to stop his father.
at this point, it kinda just feels like they want to erase adrien out of the entire show completely but if they did that then they know that no one would be watching the show at all because he's a fan favorite, and i feel like i know the reason why they are doing this in the first place and it's because miraculous is supposed to be a show for "only girls" therefore, Marinette is the main character and shes the only main character and she can't have anyone on her side that's a boy that's actually competent, because girls need "Strong female characters". and that's not what a strong female character is! we need to teach young girls that are EQUAL to boys not that they are SUPERIOR. And what about the boys watching this show? where's their role models? and if ya'll wanted this to be a show only for girls, THEN WHY IS ADRIEN IN THE SHOW IN THE FIRST PLACE? oh, so marinette can have a romance of course. but then why is he a superhero? oh, so they can have the dramatic love square of course.
You know what else pisses me off other than finale the fact thay felix trusted RANDOM PERSON (aka Marinette) tells her the whole truth but hides it from HIS COUSIN adrien yes i get it he doesn't know that adrien is cat noir and he wanted lb to help but still! This is so messed up many of them including nathalie felix and Marinette talk about adrien being free while they trap him in a lie just like gabriel did
hawkmoth was literally a terrorist. remember when he threatened to launch nuclear missiles in the new york special to start a world war? and they still excuse his actions???
No seriously. Where the hell was Felix? He would never put on an Alliance ring and his girlfriend and cousin, who he keeps trying to make sure are free, were literally imprisoned. What even was the point of his stupid abstract play? Did he just want Ladybug to do all the work for him?
I guess 🥲
Thomas sayed Felix keept a
Out of it as its humen affairs and he doesnt see himself as a Humen. Henry also only joins the Team at the end for Kagami.
@@indedgames4359 wait, did he really said that.
@@indedgames4359 Okay. And he didn't care that Gabriel still had Adrien's amok?
@@JesseGolo what r u talking about?
Honestly, at this point, Chat Noir has every right to go villain if he wants. Everyone lies to him, treats him as a side piece with no autonomy, and considers him unimportant.
Maybe that's what the writers are actually building towards.
@@Kadel___ hope so; I could see him maybe going dark after the truth finally comes out that everyone was lying to him and ladybug never told him that his own father was the same villain they fought against nearly all year.
I’d love if in this new multiverse special maybe they can start developing Adrien by having the evil cat noir get him to turn to the dark side by telling him the truth. Claw noir could convince the main Adrien to use and abuse his power so others will be forced to respect him.
U mean if somebody lies to u, so they have the right to be a villain!?😏😏
@@BabitaKumari-hk9ci in a fictional story where it'll make for more interesting content with consequences, I say yes, let's do it!
@@rhaeasoul8531r maybe Lila will tell him everything and get him on her side. After all, she knows everything, and she'd be actually telling the truth this time, which will convince Adrien to become a villain.
Maybe he might reject it the first time. But then when Lila gets a hold of the twin rings. He'd have no choice but to obey, and become a villain, this way Adrien will become akumatized and will become a villain.
But before all of that I think Adrien will reveal to someone like his best friend Nino, who has been showing to get better throughout season 5, and atp I think he might renounce his miraculous and give it to him before he gives in to Lila. I think that could create for some very angsty plot, and then Ladybug and Nino with the Cat Miraculous. The two close people to Adrien are gonna try their best to save him. Because of that, Nino might still have Wayzz with him, but could only unify him with Plagg if absolutely necessary, but I don't think he'd normally do that. So Carapace could be missing for some time. However if people questions about Cat Noir's whereabouts, Nino could say that Cat Noir asked him to take on his place for a few days, as Cat Noir had to travel elsewhere. But bts Nino is trying to save Adrien who is Cat Noir, along with Ladybug, and he could alternatively switch from him with the cat, to Carapace, without raising suspicions about Carapace's whereabouts too.
I've argued in my own videos on the matter that Astruc has no interest in making Adrien a character beyond a certain narrow set of character traits. Astruc has repeatedly demonstrated the lengths he will go to write Adrien out of his own story to keep Adrien as a perfect doll. Felix honestly feels more like a protagonist because he got many stories where Adrien should have been relevant.
Finding out Gabriel is Hawk Moth? Felix did that, not Adrien.
Finding Emile's stasis pod? Felix did that, not Adrien.
Revealing his family's history of Marinette? Felix did that, not Adrien.
The irony in this is that Astruc treats Adrien as a perfect doll which is exactly what Gabriel does to Adrien.
I've only caught up on the show since the start of season 4 through reviews, but it seems like Felix to Adrien is what Zoe is to Chloe, they're there so that neither character could develop further
I honestly find it so funny that Astruc replaced Felix with Adrien only to re-replace Adrien with Felix. I wish he would left good enough alone and kept Felix the other protagonist.
@@victoriaescobedo5458wow you’re very right 😀 well I’m calling that bad writing because he’s just inserting more characters so his main character’s problems don’t need to be dealt with on screen, which is kind of dumb. It probably be easier to right a character development arc then create an entire new character and give them half the background.
@@Thehipsteremo You are right. They should have kept Felix as main character and never should have included Adrien in it. Seriously, this guy is so out of the loop, every relevant information for plot or his character development is kept from him. Now I'm starting to think that Astruc doesn't even care about the deuteragonist he wrote.
@@_Kazuto_Kirigaya_Im just saying the og Felix/Adrien being a self centered rich kid who has a persona as a lovesick dork is infinitely more intriguing than our current Adrien just as a character. I would have much preferred the whole will they won’t they if Felix didn’t like Marinette because he he didn’t think she that important but slowly going soft for her and unsure how to feel. Chat Noir being the very open about his feelings alter ego to someone who’s emotionally constipated is just more interesting to me.
the fact that gabriel getting a statue in his honor & is praised for his non-existent heroism while his son, whom he had emotionally abused throughout most of his life, is lied to & gaslighted into believing that his father was a great man and aspires to be like him in the future is the ending this trashfire of a show expects us to consider as 'good' is actually apalling & disgusting on multiple layers
Exactly
Well at least it is realistic I guess...
While I agree, 2 things. 1, the show isn’t over yet so this could be done on purpose to give Adrien some trauma that he was lied to later on. And 2, the movie is coming out and since the movie is it’s own thing, I bet they’re gonna handle that reveal differently. I hope so at least.
Hopefully we get a statue tearing down scene and Lila is the one responsible for exposing Monarch. She'll also be the cause for Ladybug and Cat Noir to become enemies
Pfft! Gabriel is no hero.😒
“adrien being demoted from a sidekick to a damsel in distress would have been bad enough, but you know what? at least in the nightmare, he was there.” i’m crying😭😭
Adrien = Repunsel (i.e. he's literally a Disney Princess) and not a good one like Jasmin or Belle but a less active one like Princess Aurora.
@@90lancasterat least princess Aurora knows what happened, Adrien doesn't even get that.
@@90lancastereven rapunzel was in her own story and confronted her abuser
@@90lancasterAurora is the more accurate Disney Princess to compare him to because:
1. The entire story of Sleeping Beauty is caused by Aurora’s birth.
2. She doesn’t figure out what’s going on for the majority of her life (granted, she eventually does, unlike Adrien).
3. She’s shut out of the fight against the main villain.
4. She isn’t even the main character of her own story. That title goes to the Good Fairies.
They did Adrian so dirty that I don't think any other main character in history past and future will ever be dismissed as hard as Adrian got dismissed in this finale
This is pain not even VEGETA fans know. VEGETA FANS OF ALL PEOPLE
@@foam3132 At least Vegeta gets to fight the villains lmao
@@moon4236 that's what I meant. Despite DB hasn't given Vegeta his dub over Frieza, they are getting close to. Plus, he's more to Goku than Chat Noir is to Ladybug. And Vegeta is given plenty of dubs regardless, despite Toriyama not liking him
@@foam3132Adrien literally got dissed harder than Vegeta was in the Resurrection of 'F' movie. BECAUSE AT LEAST VEGETA WAS THERE.
@@diarawisteria2218 I know. That what mean't
In miraculous, the worst thing is to be blonde.
True even of Rose, and Emelie too.
Ikr😭😭😭
They just hate blonde caracters
I mean Emily is in a coma
You know what happened with Chleo
Rose has a deadly sickness
Felix was abused very bad
And I don't even need to say something about adrien
The best is probably having blue coloured hair bc they always get their way usually 💀
Except you‘re Zoe and you‘re there to replace the character that was inspired by Asstruc‘s pre school bully💀
@@nicolas._.2294 what about that one npc or the weather girl
One of the biggest issues in the show is how it fails Adrien. He's intelligent and cultured but has an abusive homelife, which essentially makes him a fascinating protagonist, as does him having the power to destroy--which could be a metaphor for his toxic homelife. But he's never allowed much screentime or development, and his hero persona (which I feel is way too OOC for him; I feel like Plagg influenced him significantly) is made into a replaceable sidekick. I hope Zag's movie gives him proper respect.
Yeah I feel we should’ve had a few more Adrien focused episodes like “Lies” as he’s more of an interesting character as his life is more connected to the main plot along with his dynamics having more potential
@@BlueBlazeKing I feel like this became a requirement for me the moment season 2 dropped and it was revealed that Gabriel was Hawk Moth. I feel like it allowed us to see more of the father-son dynamic, but the writing is very poor, as Gabriel is willing to manipulate and use Adrien to support his own needs one minute, and then guard and care about him the next. It was always disturbing that the writers fail to have anyone acknowledge this. It's just "your dad is too protective, man."
@@OpticalSorcerer Exactly, if we had more time developing the bond between Adrien and Gabriel we could’ve gotten a more realistic and well told story of how Gabriel’s quest to revive his wife is affecting him and how he treats those who are left. But instead we got that one episode where Mari has to steal Chloe phone to keep Adrien in school.
@@BlueBlazeKing Considering how Marinette's friends condone her obsessive behavior, I guess I shouldn't be shocked thatGabriel isn't seen as abusive. Weird how Gabriel gets sympathy, but not Chloe or Sabrina.
@@OpticalSorcererI agree
"Adrian will get a bigger role next season" Yeah, we say that since the end of season 3
Last season where he was actaully main character and important maybe not fully but you get the point
Thomas Astruc is disgusting
@@user-soneinewholazyforcontentMain character?where , Adrien Begin to be left in the dark ever since season 3
@@justarandomperson8561 that is what I said...
@@user-soneinewholazyforcontentNice profile pic 💚💚🐈⬛🐈⬛
It honestly make zero sense on how Adrien's whole life, his BIRTH, is the catalyst for the ENTIRE show to happen, and yet he's being treated like nobody important. Dude, he's the freaking son of the MAIN villain, who's goal was to bring back HIS mother. Heck, even excluding him from the finale and all that happily ever after yada yada is bs. It's THE FINAL confrontation with the main villain, his father, not to mention the amount of abuse Gabe caused the poor guy over the years, and suddenly all that trauma is poof gone. Like what, treat him better, he deserves better than... whatever the show gave him
He should be the main character instead
Honestly we needed more Chat Noir moments with Gabriel
Adrien didn't suffer abuse over the years, he was really neglected when his mother "died"and it was like a year before. He was a loved child, a miracle child, sheltered by his parents. the parents of a miracle's child, or a child that had suffered in their childhood could be really protective with their children. The problem with Adrien and Gabe's relationship is we know basically nothin about the first 14 yo of Adrien's life.
The fact that people still have hope in this show is astonishing.
I like most things about the show aside from Heroes United and Ladybug.
I really like Alix, Juleka & a Liked Chloe before they screwed her over.
Thomas just keeps making Marinette look so bad and then acts confused when people ask him why he's doing it.
Oh I BEEN lost hope ever since the second episode of this season happened. I'm just going along the ride atp.💀
But hey, for what it's worth, atleast we got the movie now. 😂
As long as the show still has episodes and seasons to release there is still hope
@@90lancaster“I like most things abt the show except from Ladybug“
The show is literally called Miraculous Ladybug💀 (Yeah yeah it’s actually Tales of Ladybug & Cat noir but come on, nobody calls it Miraculous Cat Noir)
@@Jpx0999Agreed.
Yeah. The show writers and Thomas asstruc are disgusting for treating Adrien like this.
I agree
They probably left him out for something they have planned for s6
@@camila254there were leaks that Adrian will never know the truth about his father
@@StarLight-wd6nr That's awful! That means Adrien is never going to have closure with his horrible excuse of a father!
@@FeligamiAdrizoeSworaDooplivian I know right
One thing that always ticks me off is how at the beginning master Fu had to chose one person to carry the ladybug and cat miraculous because only a few were able to, however in recent chapters we have seen the miraculous changing owners or straight up having Marinette use both when we were told that can produce an incredible power.
If miraculous are now being given like candy to any person, it makes me think they aren't so special because literally ANYONE can use them
Socqueline is better Qualified to be Ladybug she's a Grand Prix Gymnast and Martial artist and is also creative too & she's well "sensible headed and emotionally stable too", and Zoe was just as good as Cat Noir when she was Kitty Noir, and well Alya has proven in Senti-Bubbler she's as good as or even better tactician than Ladybug.
Where as when Ladybug was given the Cat Miraculous she was flakey both times, Marinette should be in the show as Multi-Mouse as a background character LOL & Ladybug should be Alya or Chloe and you'd have a way better show then as both those girls have more interesting character flaws and good points than Marinette's amazing ability to be "random" with Lucky Charms and to fall over on her face.
@@90lancasterdon’t get me wrong, I actually agree with some of your points, Socqueline could be ladybug, but she is just like Marinette, not such a big difference, so Marinette was the chosen one, and not gonna lie she did a great job being ladybug, the only problem was that she neglected cat noir many times, about alya she wouldn’t be so responsible, and about Chloe, there is no way she is getting the miraculous of creation or any other, and about Zoe, she did a great job, but so does cat noir most of the times, when he is useless that is the fault of the stupid plot but he has many other better qualities, for example when he was cat walker, he even was better than ladybug, but as cat noir he just do a great job and also manages to maintain a good chemistry between all his partners
@@Vladic-po6yh Weirdly it is only the power of "Luck" that would enable Marinette to be the Chosen one. as it isn't like Fu stalked her he just gave it to the 1st person not to let him walk into traffic, by that Logic Mr. Ramier could be Ladybug.
@@90lancaster kinda true
Adrien should’ve been the main character anyways he’s literally the reason why everything happens.
Everything about Adrien is more interesting than Marinette.
@@JayRedGear Preach! I know with Marinette being a super hero she is probably under a lot of pressure but she has good parents, good friends, and I think good grades. Adrien is also under pressure from being a super hero (even if he doesn’t act like it because they give him nothing) but his mom is dead, he has an abusive father, Ladybug treats him like he is incompetent, and he never gets to have a normal life because he is famous. Never knowing who your friends are or who just wants the perks that come with being famous. He is a very tragic character which they apparently forgot that they made him that way. I just want him to have a villain arc or something.
@@molly_parker_1847I agree Adrien is a tragic character but never seen as one due to the crappy writing
Everything about is just pure tragedy and what is the saddest thing about his tragedy is that it is not seen as one
@@JayRedGear Every character is more interesting than Marinette.
@@BlackCroft666 Very true.
It's the tales of Ladubyg and CAT NOIR, not merely the tales of Ladybug. I can't believe they locked Adrien in a cell for the entire finale while Su Han, the New York heroes, and even Fei Wu had more to do. And seriously, Felix and Kagami were also absent for the entire finale despite being the two most important side characters as they had a direct connection to the villains. They should have participated in the finale, and Cat Noir absolutely should have confronted his father. It would have been the perfect boss battle to wrap up Adrien's character arc, as he finally stands up to his father for the final time.
Yh but the show's name is miraculous ladybug sooo
@@pixelmagicbeat8131 so at least let thomas astruc state that chat is just a sidekick and let the show not explicitly state that the ladybug and black cat miraculous arent opposites and equals
@@pixelmagicbeat8131no it’s called miraculous tales of Ladybug AND CAT NOIR
They changed into Miraculous Ladybug and it was when i stopped watching
@@Gabriel__Marquesno it’s always been “Miraculous: The Tales of Ladybug and Cat Noir”
Adrien really needs a dark kwami or whatever this series equivalent of black suit Spider-Man would be; have him slowly start to go villiain as he’s tired of constantly being manipulated, lied to, and treated like some object everyone throws to the side.
Like Chat Blanc? he could be like antivenom
I think it would be good if adrien got spiderman powers and invented web-shooters so that he would change his costume and become much faster, stronger and even smarter+ adrien as mc
Ofc with the cat miraculous
@@djpegao I could definitely see him maybe not going full villain but start to care less and less what kind of damage cataclysm does; the final moment could be him purposely aiming for the villains head instead of their akuma object.
Agree
The show is called tales of ladybug and chat noir but if you were someone who didn’t know that, you’d think the show is about just ladybug. Even before this episode Adrien/Chat Noir has been sidelined over and over again.
Even if Adrien being a senti-being was the reason he doesn’t fight, why didn’t he STILL find out about the truth??
I was genuinely excited at the beginning of this season thinking Adrien was finally going to be apart of the story but nope. This was utterly disappointing. The finale could have so many different ways but they chose the worst way possible.
Yeah. If anything, Gabriel gets way more focus and development than Adrien does, so the show should be called "Tales of Ladybug versus Hawkmoth".
I think even in past seasons Adrien/Chat have more impact on show... Yea even if this show is around Ladybug they could give him more place, especially at the end. 8 year family drama in 5 seasons, and not only they still don't know whos behind mask, but also he live in sweet lie that his father, one of worst I saw in fictional, end like hero.
So, fun fact… the show is NOT called this in it’s native French. It’s just called Ladybug. The added “cat noir” was a marketing ploy for America because executives didn’t think boys would be interested in the show if it didn’t feature a male protagonist in some way.
So the fact that the show is more about Ladybug and treats Cat as a sidekick not an equal member is exactly how it’s supposed to be. So the people you should be angry at isn’t Astruc, but the American executives who lied to you.
(not so) Fun fact: in the spanish dub, the show is just called Miraculous: The Adventures of Ladybug. Chat Noir is not mentioned.
@@jimlight5137 To be fair, the show did treat Ladybug and Chat Noir as equals until midway through season 3, then he's demoted to a sidekick.
When someone asked on twitter why Astruc was treating Adrien this way in the show, Astruc basically said that's how it's going to be and just deal with it.
Thomas is looking for a kick in the fucking balls!
I’d tell him that I don’t like his tone, and let Adrien have more time! Think about the kids who love Cat Noir too! Does he hate kids or something!?
What kind of writer is he?
@@disneyparksstarwarslover7638not a really good one that’s for sure
@@disneyparksstarwarslover7638An unstable one?
Remember how in the season 4 finale they said it would be chat and ladybug together against monarch... Yeah that aged badly
What is Cat Noir's role in the Miraculous Team is he identical in rank to say Pigella or Caprikid lower rank than Rena Rouge (who is technically Ladybug's apprentice), lower than Luka who seems to be Su Han's apprentice so he Luka may at some point outrank Ladybug !
'who knows'.
Tbh, if this show ACTUALLY has the balls to make Adrian an antagonist (or at least rebell against Marinette) in season 6 after he's learned everything (that is IF he ever learns everything 💀), then I'll take back ALLLL the bad things I've ever said about this show. 😂..... well, not everything, but you get the point.
@Evelyn.Schwarz IKR? That's what I was thinking! 😂
Nah, he was treated as a doll until the end. Why would Thomas "Male Feminist" Astruc break Adrien out of his glass castle?
@Evelyn.Schwarz She always called Marinette out.. not siding with just Lila. In that retrospect was truthful. And -- In Season 1: It was Marinette's fault that no girl stood a chance for Adrien. She ran off Lila first cause everybody practically worshiped her.. Am I right or wrong? That includes Kagami. Okay, Marinette.. If AdriCat changes his mind and heart about you; you keep your promise.. Adrien is free on what he gets to do with his life and whom to love!
@@PRISMSHOWERS_P 👏🏾💯
@@RKNancy *sigh* true 😪
I feel like Chat Noir's irrelevance could be fixed if they made him an essential part of destroying an akuma. Maybe they could change it so that while Ladybug can capture the akuma or create a barrier that the akuma can't escape, only Chat can destroy it. Ladybug would keep the akuma stable and from escaping so Chat gets the final blow. At least he'd have a purpose to always be there so he doesn't feel second fiddle to Ladybug. Creation and destruction are supposed to be balanced and need each other but this show has episodes where Chat isn't needed at all. Sounds pretty contradictory
I thought the exact same thing! There’s absolutely nothing concerning Ladybug’s power of Creation that states that it has the ability to remove evil from things. Chat Noir’s Destruction would be way better suited; the entire De-Evilisation process is completely unnecessary. Nobody even thinks of Akumas as butterflies anyway, and they wouldn’t have to worry about Chat disintegrating them if Thomas Astruc wasn’t such a shithead about making Ladybug the only one to ever do anything useful.
Correct me if I’m wrong, I haven’t seen season 1 in a while. But in the early episodes wasn’t that canon? That the akuma had to be destroyed by cataclysm. It might have been a throwaway like that they obviously forgotten or pushed away.
Either way it’s an awesome concept that really pushes the partner not sidekick rhetoric.
No, it is cannon that Ladybug has to cleanse the Akuma so the victim can be cured. If Chat Noir uses cataclism, then the victim won't be cleansed.
@@heatherh4294 That's more like the concept of purification than creation.
The reason why mari had to De- Transform was because she was too over powered for them to think of a realistic way hawky could get the miraculous.
I think Thomas has been wanting to use a Cat Bug for years (heck the Luckly Charm Mech is even called Cat bug and she kinda looks like it too as Bug Noire)
Adrien should’ve been the protagonist it is LITERALLY his story. His dad is the main villain, the cause of him being the main villain is because of his mom’s death, and the only reason his mom is dead is because of him, which is the only reason why this show exists. That’s not even including the exciting subplot that they could’ve done with Felix. Marinette should be side character, she is the outsider to this story, she shouldn’t even know any of this. This is like if we focused on Star Wars through the lens of Hans Solo instead of Luke or Leia and then tried to have the “I AM YOUR FATHER” scene. IT DOESNT WORK. And Astruc wants to act like he’s just a prize for Marinette to obtain. I’m not even an Adrien stan or anything this is just good common sense and something people learn in a college creative writing course. 😒
Agreed. If the writers don't want Adrien to do anything in the show, then why is HE the one with all actually interesting drama? Why is HE the one with the strongest and closest connection with the villain?
Why is Adrien even IN the show in the first place? The writers don't seem to want to use him and have knowledged that they give him so little to do in several episodes. Why is he even here if they're not gonna use him? A lot of the issues with the show, like Marinette's creepy obsession with Adrien and scattered villain connections, wouldn't exist if Adrien wasn't there.
Ass-truck be like: I love both my protagonists! Marinette and...
*Looks at blurry writing on wrist.*
...Apricot...?
Annoys me that Astruc's whole thing with Adrien is "Oh Marinette is Barbie, while Adrien is Kent"
Basically Adrien is JUST armcandy, nothing more, nothing less.
Already expecting another Cat Blanc episode where he DOES find out about all the secrets she's keeping from him, resulting in her taking BACK the rings she gave him, aka his amok.
To CONTROL him if he ever gets out of line.
Definitely like how the movie changed things, made them as EQUALS.
Learning the other's identity with, would you look at that... NO end of world scenario.
Gabriel not making a wish at ALL, giving himself up, moving on from his wife, AND that scene with Emile's ghost hugging them both is just wow..
Dang it astruc, THAT is how the season should have ended.
Honestly I was expecting FELIX would have broke his girlfriend out at least in the finale, and take his cousin's place in the prison, maybe even reveal he LEARNED his identity as cat noir.
Causing Adrien to combine the Peacock AND the Black Cat, and through some plot craziness he couldn't be controlled since he was in control of the peacock.
But NO.
I like your idea a whole lot more, and I hate the fact after all that not just Adrien but also Felix did basically nothing in the finale.
His backstory and his motivations, along with his reasoning for his actions in the prior seasons made sense but still besides being self aware of how cruel he was becoming and trying to change by finding love in Kagami he didn't really do anything that counts as in redemption enough for him to join Ladybugs team.
I feel like if he did help Adrien and Kagami out in the finale like you said, it would've given him an actual redemption arc because sad backstories don't excuse actions that endangered lives.
They do everything they can to avoid drama, the Cat Walker thing went nowhere, he essentially started acting like Catwalker while dressed like Cat Noir !
Felix never approached Adrien seriously he went to Ladybug instead, Hawkmoth is believed to be Gabriel and Master Fu never really even talks to him about it, it's always how can you make this about Marinette.
Heck the show barely bothers to remember Marinette's interest in Fashion now they make her look like a hobbiest who has given it up for super heroing and to be the Guardian.
The show is even a bit vague on how Adrien has so many potions too.
Well the difference between barbie and mlb is simply that THE STORY OF BARBIE IS REVOLVED AROUND BARBIE, whereas the mlb one is mainly abt Adrien considering the fact that HE HAPPENED TO BE THE MAIN REASON WHY EVERYTHING HAPPENED.
He later says it the executive’s fault Adrian gets less screen. While I can believe that somewhat, his statement about Barbie and Ken makes it seem like he doesn’t WANT to give Adrian the screen time needed.
Your final point about Chloe's dad being made the victim, is what I wanted to type when I was listening to your video: This show has a HORRIBLE take on how it handles abusive households! All the girls from abusive homes were demonized, or rather, akumatized, at some point in the show. Adrien is literally made to WORSHIP his abuser at the end of the Agreste arc thanks to Marinette lying. Felix was treated as a villainous character up until he fell for Kagami and explained his actions had a pretty good reason. Marinette abuses Adrien in their superhero forms all the time yet he's her loyal side kick and in civilian life became her boyfriend! This show, if anything, teaches kids to hate themselves for acting out for their abuse and teaches them to stick to partners who keep abusing them. It's this message that has me wanting to puke whenever Marinette is rewarded on screen, and why I believe this show is downright harmful to children. Yet the good bits get me hate-watching this piece of trash. I heard rumors Astruc was leaving after S5, and I better hope its true.
THIS!!
Chloe : "Has anyone seen my Daddykins?"
The Fandom : "Zoe's stolen him honey like she stole you role in the show your love confession to Pigtails"
Maybe they decided they had to many close intimates to Marinette, they didn't want Adrien and Chloe to ever be "actual friends" at any point as that would be a distraction from the blessed Marinette.
If Chloe got to keep her plots rather than taking Lila's then they'd have Kagami, and Alya in the mix, and still be pushing Luka and Alix off into the weeds too no doubt as they do now with Zoe and Socqueline & the girlsquad in general. As for Max, Ivan, Marc, Nath etc.. they may as well not be on the show at all. Even Juleka and Rose (unfortunately) feel like set dressing at times of Rose is only there for the show to mock.
Marinette's Parents are barely doing anything for like 2 seasons now either.
I agree
To be fair catnoir was SAing ladybug but she wasn't a good partner either but at least he didn't get rewarded unlike Marinette who actually got Adrien AS Marinette not ladybug and literally stalking him
I just can't agree with you more on this comment if I can just like it a thousand times I would
I like stories with actually themes of abuse , stalking and trauma so miraculous doing them SOOO horribly is just sad for me
Also since we are talking about abusive realionships and bad parents
Can I bring up Marinette 's parents
Am I the only one that think they are horrible?
They literally know nothing about their daughter
Do they know she is a stalker And breaks the law?
They KNOW she got bullied (the first episode of the show literally implies that)but they did nothing about it
Miss bustier too is not a good teacher she seemed to know about the bullying chloe did yet did nothing about it
Yes she believed chloe can be a better person but did she ever try to MAKE her a better person
I don't know talk or something
Also in season 2 Marinette tried to make up the realionship between chloe and Audrey and how alike they are but doesn't that seems f**ked up?
Marinette should be trying to make chloe realise Audrey is a horrible person and shouldn't be a mother to anyone
marinette abuses chat noir by nagging sometimes😭? i get your point but the exaggerating is crazy
Okay, so for the past 3 years I have been ranting to my friends about how metal (albeit a bit cringy) it would be if Adrienne became the new Hawkmoth in the name of bringing back Gabriel after Ladybug accidentally kills him. The fact that, after *three damn years* , the setup is finally there and yet I have *zero* expectations that this is the way the story will go, is mildly disappointing.
Isn't it foreshadowing AdriCat's Villain Arc.. In her nightmare it shows Maribug battling a red dragon that turns into Gabriel and is killed by her; Adrien asking Marinette or Ladybug why did she kill his father? Importanc of who did he say it to? Ladybug or Marinette?
ilove this idea
But to do that Adrien would have to have a Personality, I suppose Cataclysm can sometimes cause electrical disruption but not like that. I do wonder where Felix got to in the ending though, as having him pinch the Butterfly and be up to no good would be an option too. I kinda Wish Lila does loose it for the time being though. Say she wakes up and it's gone and they don't show who took it, Maybe it's Adrien, Maybe Felix, Maybe Chloe, maybe Madam Tsuruge. Tomoe or even Amalie would be something I guess.
The fact that marinette is lying to Adrian about his dad being a hero and helping her defeat hawk moth just feels so gross like I was on bored with the relationship but now I hope Adrian breaks up with her
This show is doing Adrien dirty! It is absolutely infuriating! Things will most likely be bad between them if Marinette doesn't tell Adrien the truth. I also find it infuriating how she refrained from even telling Cat Noir that Gabriel was the villain! She is keeping WAY too many secrets from him! Adrien deserves to know the truth! He needs to stop being left in the dark!
She didn't say he was a hawkmoth but was manipulated for that and according to this logic Marinette would leave Adrien first
I want them to break up it would be disappointing to many but in reality they never even made a good couple. They’re just two people in the same class that all of a sudden fell in love. One thing I don’t get is how for 4 seasons Marinette is “just a friend” but in some random episode Adrien just suddenly falls for her? 🤦🏼♀️ WTH! (Also another thing is they have to keep secrets from each other I wrote my own scene of them breaking up in the rain lol. Also sorry for how long it is)
“Adrien and Marinette are made for each other” me personally I wouldn’t wanna be made to be with someone who constantly lies to me and is currently lying to me right now😑
@@KaylaRogers-ng6zt exactly.
Mlb and thomas in particular has a BIG problem with understanding feminism.. and it’s very obvious w this terrible ass finale
THIS
A bunch of male feminists who don't touch grass. The USA superhero movie was the dealbreaker for me. It's stoopid.
Well there is a lot of different sorts of it. He's hardly alone in the current trend of pushing males down as a means to rise female characters up, I don't think partnership, cooperation or trust instead as a means to build Ladybug up ever crossed his mind, much as Marinette has made little to no attempt at self-improvement unlike some of the others. The Miraculous improves your base skills so if your base skills are stronger you are a stronger holder.
Except Marinette who seems to wing it based solely on luck and creativity / planning.
Yet they actually showed she's NOT A PLANNER until 12 months previously. So Is that the self-improvement, I don't think so when they show her having panic attack out of anxiety because of it.
Exactly the worse outcome happened, the ending felt creepy in a waiting for the other shoe to drop! The way too happy ended felt unreal and unearned. This is wild no?
Adrienette is a very creepy relationship and Ladynoir is just low key tragic and sad & remains borderline abusive now.
I issue with this is that they marketed the show as Duo Protagonists.
And now MANY seasons later the show is ALL about Mari? And in a plot where it greatly involves ADRIEN'S family?
I call Bullshit.
It feels like the moment they gave Chloe a redemption arc in season two. They kicked out someone important without our knowledge, and the story went down hill from there.
Who ever that was it's clear that they gave some importance to Chloe and Adrien that Thomas Heavily Disagreed with.
And not only got rid of said person. But Thomas is SO petty, dude went out of his way to ruin what that person wanted to do.
By ruining the characters they wanted to shine during this Saga.
An equal male and female duo is so much more interesting as it's not commonly done.
Even Cardcaptor Sakura had a better relationship with her "sidekick/mentor"
@@90lancaster oh yeah. Sakura and Syaoran are GREAT examples.
Despite coming in later episodes, and even though the show IS called Card Captor Sakura, Syaoran was treated very well as both a rival, a teammate, and a love interest.
Everytime they are together they always worked as a team. Helping each other out. If one is in trouble the other saves them.
They're even dating now for Pete sakes, and they have the most adorable interactions.🥰
Although I think the original pretty cure is the best example of having Duo protagonist.
CCS is also a great one, especially with the romance plot aspect.
People would notice they would work better as a team propably. Or people would notice that basically nothing interesting happens with Marinette.
what really makes me mad is that season five was doing great with his character up until now. he got to unify the rabbit; he defeated safari; and we saw him grow more and more resilient against his father.
ye all thatfor the finale to be weak and just saying he can't do it, and marinette discovering more things about him, she basically knows him better than he does
This season is just a culmination of all the things Ive had a growing issue with this show as of season 3. Marinette and her writing, the exclusion and butchering of Adrien and the terrible treatment if Chloe cause the creator has a weird bias. This is just..........I cant anymore
Also having Luka find out their identities in secret and then just shipping him off instead of making him relevant to the story until the last episode. Like cmon Luka also had so much potential as a character and he was done so dirty. And I'm also pissed that Chloes fucking dad got a redemption arc and basically abandoned her for his new daughter instead of stepping up and trying to be the change she needs. Like bro what the fuck.
Thomas Astruc spends way too much of his time bashing a 14 year old fictional character. He literally calls you out if you say that Chloe is a good character, as if you had made a personal threat to him or something. Such a manchild
Adrien and Chloe deserve to be part of a better show.
@@gabblebabbles2017ou see, that's what bugs me. Not only did they write off Chloé's development in place of a goody goody cookie cutter version of her, even her own father, knowing fully well how toxic his wife is, let's her take custody of their child in place of Zoé like what?
Even if he didn't want to take responsibility as a father, did he have to give up his child to her emotionally abusive mother? If he really was a good father n cared about Chloé, he could have gotten her help. Get her a therapist, send her away to a boarding school or institution that'll straighten her. Literally anywhere else but Audrey yet even he couldn't do that.
I feel awful for Adrien n Chloé. Their family failed them n yet they still get sidelined or completely written in place of 'perfect' replacements with little to no closure.
For me S3 was best, cuz of irony storyline. I liked that it, at the end, show that Mari and Adrien can be with other person and still be happy. Also episodes were more serious and still funny. I dont't watch whole S4, but some episodes were good. But in 5... I think after lose Miracolous some characters seem irrevelant to producers, like Alix or Luka. I have nothing bad for more Felix, but his sudden relationship with Kagami, take out from nowhere, only fact they sentis (i don't like that idea too...).
Made Chloe redempt to at end treat her as villain? I woudn't have anything for that if she lost place after finale of S3 and then Lila take her place. OMG Lila is another example... from simple bully with easy lies she came to be super agent, with three ID/families, powerbase, time for conspiracy and magic wig.
The show should have been called
Miraculous ladybug tales of Marinette and once in a blue moon Adrian
Adrian’s story should be a tragedy. This man should be BROKEN. Everyone has lied to him, he’s been shut out by his closest friends, his family is the sole reason all this has happened, he lost his father with his most trusted partner being responsible for it.
Adrian needs his Joker Arc, falling to despair and destroying France. And Ladybug would be forced to put an end to it, meaning Adrian must *DIE.*
D R A M A !!!! I am here for it!
Maybe not die but yes he needs a villain arc as he finally gets tired of it all and unknowingly becomes just like his father to force people to finally respect him.
As I’ve said in another comment Assuming in his universe claw noir is still Adrien maybe claw could convince the main Adrien to start on that path by being the one person to treat him as an actual thinking, independent, autonomous living person. Yeah he and shadybug would still lose in the end but his words stick with the main Adrien and he starts to develop for the worst.
If literally everyone died at the end of Miraculous, it would actually be a very satisfying ending.
I agree with all of this except for the part about Marinette being responsible for Gabriel’s death. Gabriel brought his own death upon himself, and if anything, Adrien would most likely blame himself instead of Marinette, because it was his own cataclysm that sealed Gabriel’s fate.
@@eon1014 he’d blame himself then likely turn that hatred towards ladybug / Marinette for not telling him who his father was.
Season 5 disappointed me so bad, I’m done with the show now! The movie’s my only hope!
FR
My friend, same…. I’ve known a LOT of people for leaving the show…. I’ve left many times but also always came back because I’ve watched this show longer than any other show so I tried to give this a chance….
After S5, THE FINALE WAS THE FINAL STRAW FOR Me! I quit…… I’ll watch the movie… as a way of saying goodbye to a show that had SOO much potential.. but only left me with SOO much DISSAPOINTMENT! I blame Thomas….
Oh, I voted your ninjago channel
@@Harumi27282 Yeah, I remember you! Hi! Thank you for voting on my polls on my channel! Hope you’ve been enjoying them! 😄
The movie is literally everything we wanted in the series in literally an hour
Keeping Chat Noir out of the final fight is one thing, but not telling Adrien the truth about his father is just insane. And is something that should come back to bite everyone in the ass. The funny thing is Cats actually hunt moths. They ENJOY eating them; that is literally perfect symbolism of having Adrien take down his father, and they do nothing with it. It's like the writers enjoy making a bad story all in the name of "subversion."
Cat Blanc and Ephemeral be like:
Seriously, it would really sting him in the heart. And possibly leave him vulnerable to an akuma.
@@JackTheProJTP no if adrien descoveres the truth now it would be better than later
@@AarnaAmbardar-n5d and let himself be vulnerable to Lila and make him depressed?
Thomas Astruc compared Marinette and Adrien to Barbie and Ken, and that for me kills the show.
I saw that tweet (well, I saw a screenshot of it) and it reminded me of Ryan Gosling, the guy playing Ken in the upcoming movie, going "Nobody cares about Ken," and I'm wondering if that's the attitude he wants us to take.
@@JesseGolo It probably is but I maintain my opinion that Thomas has internalized misogyny even if he cant see it.
@@Trixster009internalized misandry is the more accurate term
@@JesseGolo He says Marinette is his surrogate daughter but writes he not far off being an abusive spouse now.
You’re right about Adrien being portrayed as weak-minded and fragile. And it’s annoying.
He already touched monarch with his power and next episode he took it well, season 4 finale he was the one encouraging ladybug to keep fighting, he’s proven that he has what it takes to resist an akuma, this was his moment, this was meant to build him but nah, they continue lying to him over and over as if everyone in that show wants him to stay perfect.
I think, that the reason to exclude Adrien from the filnale was "woman empowerment". Astruc treats this as Marinette being a strong female character, who does not need a man to help. Some episodes ago he tweeted something like "Ladybug and Chat Noir are equal, but she is the leader. Do you have something against a girl being a leader?" I regret to say that, Astruc, but you are too late for the party. It's not as innovative anymore.
When it comes to Adrien becoming Chat Blanc after realising the truth about his family, it can be easily solved. Marinette could just hug and comfort him to show, that he has someone, who cares for him and loves him even though he is a sentimonster.
That tweet of his honestly pissed me off because he is acting like people have a problem with Marinette as the leader and doesn't understand that Adrien (the other main character) should be given equal screentime and development.
I've made a comparison to Kim Possible and that show did a better job with it's female lead. Kim is the leader and Ron is the sidekick, yet the show treats Ron with respect, having him help Kim out a lot in conflicts, having his own story and development and his relationship with Kim was more organic compared to Marinette and Adrien.
Well joke is on Astruc, cause yes I do often have an issue with a girl being the leader.
Why? Because the writing usually sucks when the girl is a leader! Now, I don’t say that because I think a girl/gal leader can never work as a character or that a boy/guy as a leader is always good just because of their gender.
It all comes down to character and execution.
One of my favorite leader characters is Hiccup from How To Train Your Dragon. Why do I like him? Because he’s smart, intelligent, resourceful, cunning, a bit deviant when he wants to be, respectful, flawed, makes mistakes, and actively tries to improve himself. He’s always pushing himself to be better, learn from his wins and losses, never let’s himself be above anyone, and RESPECTS his friends/teammates, even though they hated him at first and drive each other up the wall. They will disobey and act up around him, of course, but when it counts they’ll fall to Hiccup for guidance and have his back because they know he has theirs.
While I’m not into Legend of Zelda, I do get the sense from fans and general stuff I read that Princess Zelda is a wise, resourceful, good leader. She does what is best for others, respects Link and others, and is generally a pleasant person to be around. She sounds like a good representation of a female leader. Princess Peach is probably similar, as the Toads adore her and she has shown in various media that she’ll lay her life on the line to help and protect them. Then there’s various characters like Suki in Avatar: The Last Airbender, some of the girls from Code Name: Kids Next Door, various ponies/creatures from My Little Pony: FiM, and probably way more than I can think of right now.
Those girl/gal leaders work because the writers made them worthy leaders to follow first, and didn’t place too much emphasis on their gender to the detriment of being a good character. Some are written naturally strong and well, some have to grow into their position, and others fall in a mix. Like good leaders who are boys/guys, the creator will let them grow and make mistakes if needed because it makes them more compelling as characters.
And that’s the problem with girl/gal leaders like Marinette in modern media: they either don’t learn or grow from their journey and mistakes, or they are never allowed to make mistakes. There’s numerous times where Marionette/ Ladybug had the perfect opportunity to grow and develop, such as accepting advice from the Guardians or letting her teammates voice their opinions and lead. But no! The narrative won’t let her be anything less then perfect and the few times she does accept she messed up, it’s executed very poorly or quickly hand-waved away in an episode reset.
She’s not a good leader not because of something stupid like her gender, but because of bad writing trying to make her seem like a good leader but revealing 99 reasons why she sucks!
Ya know, reading this made me remember a quote of Animal farm that said, "everybody is equal, but some are more equals than others"
Is miraculous just animal farm XD
I think they didn't want Cat Noir to "mope" like he did in season 4, also it is yet another secret that everyone is keeping from Adrien to bite someone in the backside later on. I expect Adrienette will break up over this at some point.
@@moredelvalle7928Good one 😂
Remember how Marinette said that she hates liers? And now proceds to her boyfriend and keep him in a cristal box 🙄
Its also so sad how Adrien had absolutely 0 personality in season 5. Only he ever spoke about is Marrinette. He had absolutely nothing else in his life. No wishes, no goals. They ruined him
What he wrote on his college application was lowkey insane “I don’t know what I want to do in the future but I don’t care as long as I’m with Marinette Dupain Cheng”
The only reason why Adrien was akumatized was because Gabriel found out he is Cat Noir not because Adrien found out his father is the villain and his mother is in a cryogenic coma in the basement
Gabriel manipulated the situation to use the maximum shock of Adrien seeing his mother in the cryogenic coma to akumatizate him.
We hit the rock bottom again. Adrien is the LEAST important character in this story despite having everything revolve around him.
This series seriously makes the dumbest decisions. Maybe it's the times, maybe the author is somehow some kind of genius because he knows that as long as : "it's a girl's show" he can keep this merchandise selling.
But honestly, I feel bad for every fan of Adrien. I hope they never get asked why they like this hamsel and what sets him apart from any other minor character with a miraculous. They will literally break down in a depression when they realize how insignificant he is.
They should re boot the show and make Adrien the main character honestly his story is A. A lot more interesting than Marinette’s B. His conflict with Gabe should take center stage I mean they have been building up the moment they would fight each other since season 2 with all the “can I call you grandpa” or “if I was your son” lines plus all the alternate timelines episodes. C. They could explore his character much more and play around with the senti monster thing a lot more rather then shoving it in Season 4 with no previous hints like they did in canon. D. I think they could make Felix and Adrien twins, could you imagine all the stuff Felix could have pulled imagine he finds out both Adriens and Hawk Moths identity and then is conflicted about what to do with that information. E. Adrien being Cat Noir is a lot more interesting then Ladybug and Mari, I mean Cat Noir is the only way for Adrien to be free and be able to actually express himself without needing to be perfect for his father, it’s also the only way he can get around without being bombarded by crazy fan girls. Meanwhile Lady Bug is just a braver and less clumsy version of Mari
I am so glad you think so
I have the same opinion
Everyday, this show becomes more and more like RWBY
@@howardyates4848 what is RWBY??
@@Artistacreates_ a web series by rooster teeth
@@Artistacreates_ for your sake, never ask that question again
Astruc be like "The key to a good relationship is LIES, just lie and everything will be all sunshine and rainbows like with Marinette."
"standing in the crowd with the rest of Ladybug's pokemon" holy shit that is the best way someone has ever explained the other heroes, god they just arent even characters at this point, may as well be cardboard cutouts running around
Every time I think about the finale I get mad all over again. Every solution you suggested is so much better. Yes, I know Adrien has been akumatised every time he's found out the truth, but either a) Gabe refuses to do it this time because of his own character growth (if they wanted a redemption arc this would have been better) or b) this time he breaks out of it because it's Marinette on the line and their love is stronger than ever. Either would have been way more in keeping with the show's attempt at themes.
So much wasted potential and pointlessness...
I really wanted him to make an amazing development and to fight till the end, to hold it in himself with no emotions and to show that he is strong, but the finale was just awful
At this point I hope Adrien goes full villain mode when he finds out the truth of everything and how Ladybug had hid things from him
Still, what would Cat Nior even do as a villain? I get it he'd become evil because no one trusted him but what would he even be doing?
You know, a couple of years back, after being thoroughly let down by the show at the end of Season 3, I wrote an essay entitled, "Miraculous Ladybug is No Longer Worth Watching Until We Get to the End...And Let Me Tell You Why". I started out about the things I initially liked about the show, how it was a hodgepodge of Western action cartoons and Magical Girl anime, which, on paper, just shouldn't work. But somehow, it does. I also talked about a few of the things I liked about Adrien, as a character (which the show has evidently gone out of its way in the last two years to try and destroy, for the most part), and used him as an example of what made the show unique, how it took tropes from both Western cartoons and anime and put unique spins on them.
But then, I went on to address the elephant in the room. Thomas Astruc may have been influenced by Magical Girl anime, but he clearly wasn't paying attention to one thing that ultimately has to happen in that genre. Specifically, how "the structure of a story arc inevitably has to shake things up by getting to the part where all the secrets between the characters are laid bare, the final battle with the big bad takes place and everything pretty much goes straight to hell before a happy ending is reached. But while that is AN ending, it's not THE ending, because after that, a NEW arc takes its place, which generally sees the main characters faced with new relationships, new responsibilities, and ultimately, a new, different, more powerful enemy who's inserted themselves into the picture and made it their life's mission to take away everything the good guys have. This helps, not only with world-building, but also to give the audience a chance to actually enjoy the payoffs that came from the previous story".
Unfortunately, that was the rub. Even from the early days of Season 3, it was made PAINFULLY clear that Astruc and Crew didn't HAVE an idea for a story arc after this one (unless they had been sitting on plans for a follow-up movie or two, which would have been nice, but still not an outcome I'd bet money on). So they'd basically been left with no choice but to keep the show running in place, with all the characters left in their assigned little box and no one was allowed to move forward, "BEYOND-THIS-POINT", because no one on the creative side knew what that was supposed to look like, beyond how they wanted the series to end.
Essentially, I ended my thesis by saying that I was more or less done with the show and would only MAYBE come back during the final three or four episodes when things would finally start moving forward. And for the most part, as I picked up little crumbs of information here and there, I was largely proven correct. Through Seasons 4 and 5, none of the moments that the show touted as being big, important events actually mattered, because they were just minor detours to eat up as much screen time as possible and ultimately, everything would just go right back to normal (or as normal as this show would get, anyway). But then I found out that this arc had FINALLY ended, and when I checked it out, all I got was, "WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT?!"🤯
I mean, never mind the fact that it isn't actually revealed what Gabriel wished for (Astruc dipping into yet another anime trope, this time, the one where the creator tries to APPEAR higher-minded than he actually IS, by using "cryptic obfuscation" as a substitute for not coming up a genuine ANSWER to give to the audience). But at literally the LAST-POSSIBLE-SECOND...he tries to give GABRIEL AGRESTE...the narcissistic, emotionally-stunted, neglectful-to-the-point-of-being-outright-ABUSIVE, MAIN VILLAIN that he just couldn't let go of for FIVE YEARS, because he couldn't think of anyone to FOLLOW him...an actual REDEMPTION?!?!?!
WHAT in the blue HELL, people?! I mean, I know that, by accounts, Astruc is a vainglorious, self-aggrandizing, control freak, just like Gabriel is, so it makes sense that he'd identify with the prick. But that's hardly an excuse.
Immediately, my thoughts turned back to Seasons 2 and 3, when Chloe was actually growing out of her role as a one-dimensional stock character (and, as I pointed out in my essay, when you’re three Seasons deep and the only one who’s shown ANY kind of overarching character development is “the bratty rich girl”, THAT should have been a signal right there that this thing had already been idling in Neutral for FAR too long). Then we got to end of Season 3, and what did they do? In one episode, they went and ERASED everything they had done with Chloe for the last Season-and-a-half. And when absolutely EVERYONE came after him for it, Astruc tried to justify himself by going, "Oh, but I don't like Chloe and you're not supposed to like her either and she doesn't deserve to have a redemption". 😩
Then why did you GIVE her one, Stupid?! And more to the point...just a minute. You're making it sound like that whole thing with Chloe was an ACCIDENT?! But this thing here with Gabriel was DELIBERATE?! What the HELL kind of ASS-BACKWARDS thinking is THAT?! And then, when Astruc realized that NO ONE was going to take his side on Chloe, he STILL tried to have his cake and eat it too, by introducing Zoe into the mix as a blatant attempt to pacify people and go, "Well, okay, I'll...I'll give you this character and...and she can be like...'Good...Chloe'. Will that make everyone happy?".
NO!!! Because Chloe was the ONLY character that you were actually making INTERESTING!!! And to that point, I have to disagree with your video, ever-so slightly. You mentioned at a certain point that Marinette is actually dealing with all her problems, while Adrien isn't allowed to. But the thing about that is...has she REALLY? Yes, I agree that Adrien is still the one in the dark because he’s being neglected and lied to by the people he cares about the most (and we should certainly bemoan that fact, because it's just shady as all hell and he's always deserved better). But because Marinette's power has always been to reset everything back to zero, whenever she can't do that and there are actual CONSEQUENCES to be faced, her default response has always been to just cut and run (the way this Season ended was just another example of that). And while I get that this was by design, to keep AGONIZINGLY dragging out the central arc, it just makes her look SO weak and ineffectual, as the central hero. In fact, I can't help wondering if that's a primary reason as to why Chloe got shafted as badly as she did, because she was the only one showing legitimate growth and was actually getting to the point where she would have arguably overshadowed the two supposedly-main characters.
The only thing that I would add here, is that as far as a better ending goes, my personal suggestion would be to just move in the direction the show was originally aiming at, back in Season 2, when Fu revealed the true nature of the Creation and Destruction Miraculous being used together...that it's not omnipotence as Gabriel believed, but equivalent exchange. In order to get what he wants, something else must be sacrificed, but Gabriel has no say over what that is. Meaning that to get his wife back...ADRIEN has to die. Faced with the loss of his son and a wife seeing him for the monster he's become, Gabriel becomes a deer in the headlights and just shuts down completely, leaving Marinette as the only one who can fix everything and bring Adrien back. How does she do it? Damned if I know. But doesn't that ALREADY sound like a better wrap-up to this mess than what we got?
Anyway, that's enough of my ramblings. This has already gone on too long as it is, except to say that I think I'm about done with this series entirely. Enough is enough. I'm burned out. This show started out with so much potential, but all that goodwill has just been pissed away. I need to move on with my life. I think we ALL do.
At least, that's just MY thinking on it.
Cat Noir has lost his sense of Humour as it seems Thomas can only write pratfalls and cringe and not puns or jokes. & it was winny that was giving him his charms in season 1-3.
@@90lancaster Well, here's the thing about that. This is another quote from my essay, regarding things I appreciated about Adrien...
"What REALLY grabs you is when you look at the tropes they use throughout the show (both from western animation AND anime), and how they manage to put a unique spin on almost every single one of them. What has to be the greatest example is how Cat Noir, Ladybug’s partner on the show, is portrayed mostly in the “dopey sidekick” role, similar to what you see on shows like Kim Possible or Star vs. the Forces of Evil. Magical Girl anime also uses a similar element where, in order to keep the main female protagonist front and center, the male character is sometimes made the butt of a joke in order to keep them from stealing the show. However, with Miraculous Ladybug, Cat Noir isn’t portrayed as the goofball of the team because his abilities don’t measure up to those of the heroine. In truth, his abilities actually surpass Ladybug’s in many respects. The twist here is that Cat Noir is the goofball of the team because he WANTS to be the goofball…because any time he gets to spend, bouncing around Paris as this happy-go-lucky, devil-may-care superhero, is time he DOESN’T have to spend, thinking about the dreary circumstances of his normal life; the plight of a truly kindhearted soul in Adrien Agreste, who’s bursting with love to give, but gets none of it in return from those whom he needs it the most."
The bottom line is, in Seasons 1-3, Adrien LOVED being Cat Noir. It was arguably the ONLY thing in his life (outside of going to public school with other kids his age) that he genuinely ENJOYED doing. But then Seasons 4 and 5 took that all away from him, and suddenly, he's JUST AS miserable being Cat Noir as he is being Adrien. And how is that just not WRONG, on EVERY conceivable level?
Hey...can I get a link to your essay? I wanna see the full version of it. I like your thinking style and insights.
@@fictionlover695 Okay, I tried to link you to the essay, but the comment kept getting deleted. And the essay is too long to post in one go, so I have to split it in half and send it to you this way. Sorry, but it's the only thing I can think of. Hopefully, you still find it insightful...
Miraculous Ladybug is No Longer Worth Watching Until We Get to the End...And Let Me Tell You Why
This is really something that’s been on my mind for quite some time now. Something that’s been sticking in my craw, if you will. And over the last few weeks or so, it’s simply gotten to the point where I can no longer keep these thoughts to myself and I just HAVE to get them out of my head and out into the open. Of course, it’s taken me quite some time to finish this little thesis of mine, mostly because this kinda means a lot to me and I don’t want to be accused of expressing any half-formed thoughts on this matter.
First of all, before we go any further, let me just say that, in NO way, am I a hater of the show, “Miraculous Ladybug”. In fact, I’m quite a big fan of it. I love everything about it, at least so far as the concept goes. I mean, let’s look at what it is…a French animated series which combines elements from North American cartoons, such as Danny Phantom and Kim Possible, and mixes them with elements from Magical Girl anime (Toei Animation also co-produces the show). And on top of that, you’ve got a main character who’s half-French/half-Chinese. I mean, could this BE any more international? Maybe if Colors by Benetton was sponsoring it (and with that statement alone, I realize I’m kind of carbon-dating myself). But it’s such a mishmash of styles that, when you think about it, there’s no way this should possibly work. Yet, for some reason, it just DOES.
But that just gets the show’s foot in the door. What REALLY grabs you is when you look at the tropes they use throughout the show (both from western animation AND anime), and how they manage to put a unique spin on almost every single one of them. What has to be the greatest example is how Cat Noir, Ladybug’s partner on the show, is portrayed mostly in the “dopey sidekick” role, similar to what you see on shows like Kim Possible or Star vs. the Forces of Evil. Magical Girl anime also uses a similar element where, in order to keep the main female protagonist front and center, the male character is sometimes made the butt of a joke in order to keep them from stealing the show. However, with Miraculous Ladybug, Cat Noir isn’t portrayed as the goofball of the team because his abilities don’t measure up to those of the heroine. In truth, his abilities actually surpass Ladybug’s in many respects. The twist here is that Cat Noir is the goofball of the team because he WANTS to be the goofball…because any time he gets to spend, bouncing around Paris as the happy-go-lucky, devil-may-care superhero, is time he DOESN’T have to spend, thinking about the dreary circumstances of his normal life; the plight of a truly kindhearted soul in Adrien Agreste, who’s bursting with love to give, but gets none of it in return from those whom he needs it the most.
Pretty deep, huh? I could list all the other examples, but I don’t have all day and this is going to be long enough as it is. My point is, as a sucker for anything that’s even MODERATELY original, I was immediately drawn in by all the twists they put on these classic, sometimes clichéd, tropes. It’s a fantastic hook and they should have me hanging on every episode. So what happened?
Well…in a word…”nothing”. To be more specific, “a whole LOTTA nothing”. See, Season 3 has recently ended and we’re still in the same story arc we were in when the series began. For the most part, the show has been running in place and simply maintaining its status quo. Granted, that’s a formula that might work in the case of North American cartoons, where (depending on what show you’re watching) most changes are purely superficial. But when it comes to Magical Girl Anime, because of its formulaic nature, the structure of a story arc inevitably has to shake things up by getting to the part where all the secrets between the characters are laid bare, the final battle with the big bad takes place and everything pretty much goes straight to hell before a happy ending is reached.
But while that is AN ending, it's not THE ending, because after that, a NEW arc takes its place, which generally sees the main characters faced with new relationships, new responsibilities, and ultimately, a new, different, more powerful enemy who's been inserted themselves into the picture and made it their life's mission to take away everything the good guys have. This helps, not only with world-building, but also to give the audience a chance to actually enjoy the payoffs that came from the previous story.
The ultimate example of this is (and always will be) the anime/manga series, Sailor Moon. In the first "Dark Kingdom" arc, we see the team get together (particularly Sailor Moon and Tuxedo Mask, after which, their relationship blossoms throughout the rest of the series). After that, came the "Black Moon" arc, where we caught a glimpse into their future. From there, came the "Death Busters" arc, which saw the team expanded upon with new members, each coming to the party with their own emotional baggage. And then there was the "Dead Moon" arc, where, among other things, revelations were brought to light about Tuxedo Mask, of which, he was previously unaware. And through this discovery, he ultimately learns that he DOES, in fact, have a role to play on the team besides just being (LITERALLY) "the odd man out".
I won’t get into the fifth (and aptly named) "Chaos" arc, since that was where everything more-or-less went completely off the rails. I also feel the series SHOULD have ended with the Dead Moon arc, since it was pretty much where the series peaked...at least as far as overall character development. But I digress. I'm pretty sure my point has been made. Taking into account the fact that Miraculous Ladybug borrows so heavily from Magical Girl Anime, I think a lot of people were hoping that this was the kind of upward trajectory the series would ultimately take, with characters and relationships evolving and growing and us getting to enjoy that journey. Obviously, I’m not saying we should be on a fifth arc by now, or anything. But after three Seasons and still not having moved past the FIRST one, a chance to finally turn the page and see the characters enter a new chapter of their lives wouldn’t go amiss.
(Especially if you consider the fact that they pretty much spoon-fed to us how the climax of this arc was going to play out, way back in early-Season 2, even if it wasn’t revealed how it will ultimately be fixed.)
@@fictionlover695
Unfortunately, even from the early days of Season 3, it was made PAINFULLY clear that Thomas Astruc and his creative team don't HAVE an idea for a story arc after this one (unless they're sitting on plans for a follow-up movie or two, which would be nice, but not an outcome I'm betting money on). So they've basically been left with no alternative but to essentially take a knee and just run out the clock until the show ends. This means, in order to keep the balls in the air, all the characters have basically become ensconced in this little bubble of time, where everyone has to be kept in their assigned little box and no one is allowed to move forward, "BEYOND-THIS-POINT", because no one on the creative side knows what that’s supposed to look like, beyond how they want the series to end.
Now, for anyone reading this and immediately wanting to argue, “What are you talking about?! Lots of things changed! What about all the new transformations Marinette and Adrien have had?!” What about them? I mean, that’s great for merchandising and potential toy sales, sure. But is that really anything more than just lipstick and mascara? Has it allowed either of them to change or grow as characters? Go back over the last three Seasons and seriously ask yourself…has either of them seriously progressed AT ALL? Marinette still tucks tail and runs whenever she’s faced with the prospect of having to deal with ACTUAL consequences that her powers can’t magically fix. And Adrien is still the one in the dark because he’s being neglected and lied to by the people he cares about the most.
“What about all their friends becoming heroes, too?” Okay, as an olive branch, I’ll admit, that’s another thing about this show that I appreciate, because this is another one of those anime tropes I alluded to earlier that it put a unique spin on, as well (specifically, the one of the super team with “part-time” members, who each have specialized talents and are only called in for certain emergencies). But is this really a concept that couldn’t have begun in this arc, and then been expanded on in future ones? And again, is it still anything more than just lipstick and mascara? For all the other characters that have gotten to enjoy a “costumed hero” gig, it really didn’t change who any of them are, at the end of the day. They’re all still the same characters they were when the series started. They just get to...do this...every once in a while, now.
Even Alya and Nino, for all the alterations to their circumstances over the course of the show (becoming a couple, becoming heroes, learning each others’ secret identities), it’s ultimately never meant anything, because there was never intended to be any consequence to them. I mean, it’s not like they’ve moved anywhere on the board, either. They’re still in their relegated roles as the supportive best friends…”the wingmen”, if you will. That was never going to change. Granted, it’s kind of nice (or frustrating, depending on how you want to look at it) that at least SOMEONE’S gotten that romantic switch-up that we really should have seen given to Marinette and Adrien by now. But once you realize that nothing Alya and Nino go through is supposed to matter, because they’re not the focus of the show…well…that’s pretty much what you call the definition of “low impact”.
Arguably, the one character that could actually be said to have changed AT ALL, over the course of the show, was Chloe Bourgeois, who, from Season 2, had begun growing out of her role as a one-dimensional stock character and (in MY eyes, at least) was actually becoming INTERESTING. And to that point, let me just add, as a little side-note, when you’re three Seasons deep and the only one who’s shown ANY kind of overarching character development is “the bratty rich girl”, THAT should have been a signal right there that this thing had already been idling in Neutral for FAR too long. But to perfectly illustrate my earlier point about keeping all the characters in their assigned little cubicles, the Season 3 finale recently dropped. And what did they do? In one episode, they went and ERASED everything they had done with Chloe for the last Season-and-a-half.
Really guys? The ONE character you were ACTUALLY building up and you went a tore her down? What was THAT about? I mean I COULD just be an out-and-out troll and accuse them of doing it, simply because they didn’t want Chloe to come too high and ultimately steal the spotlight away from Marinette and Adrien. But I’m DESPERATELY hoping that it wasn’t done for any reason THAT cynical.
“But what about Master Fu? They wrote him out at the end of Season 3. Isn’t THAT a big deal?” Was it? Again, was this anything that a second or third story arc couldn’t have taken care of? And in any case, what was REALLY the loss? I mean, Marinette may have called him “Master”, but it’s not like he actually TAUGHT her…or Adrien…ANYTHING. He simply cherry-picked which secrets to divulge that were simply no longer convenient for him to keep. Even at the end, it was obvious that he hadn’t told them even HALF of what they NEEDED to know…and he was never GOING to. So it’s nothing to say he’s suddenly left them flying by the seat of their pants now, because that’s pretty much what he’d been doing this whole time.
“But what about Hawk Moth? He’s…”…Oh, don’t even TRY! So he’s picked up an ally/henchperson along the way. So what? It’s not like he’s actually DONE anything with it, which is why that teaser at the end of Season 3 amounted to absolutely nothing. He’s just going to stick to formula and keep doing the same crap he’s been doing since the show began; a picture-perfect example of Einstein’s theory of insanity…doing the same thing over again, expecting a different result.
All-in-all, I think my point’s been made, don’t you? Until we get to the final four or five episodes of the series, where things are ACTUALLY going to start moving and shaking, there’s just no point to it anymore. No one on the show is going to move forward, they’re all just going to be diverted sideways in these roundabout detours, only to end with them all right back to Start, while the writers simply tease us with a bunch of “should be’s”, “could be’s” and ultimately, “not’s”. Dangle as many carrots in front of us as you want guys. But how many laps around the track does it take before we start thinking we deserve a bite? So as much as it breaks my heart to say it, I’m getting off this merry-go-round right now. Yeah, there are still more of Marinette and Adrien’s friends who haven’t gotten their chance to wear the spandex yet. When that happens, I’ll watch the clips on UA-cam. But until the show actually GOES somewhere and DOES something, expect that to be the maximum amount of my attention span you’re going to get.
Seriously…who’s with me?
I remember when I was in the fandom and I literally read/saw better comics with them than the actual show
Like, people in fandom saw potential in BOTH of them and used them BOTH. I quit miraculous only because of the original plot - cause it sucks as hell
Can I get fanfic recommendations?
I appreciate this video a lot. People like to assume Miraculous Fans hate the show just for fun, just for no reason but it's way more complicated than that. You pointed out everything that is wrong with it very well.
Season 5 felt very strange to me in relation to other seasons. It was more fast-paced, not necessarily a bad thing. But the way that some of these decisions were written is just inexplicable for these characters. In particular the episode Derision stood out to be as really undermining Marinette's character and makes it very hard to believe that she would ever have anything to do with Kim again, give him a miraculous at any point, or even be able to cope with the stressors of being Ladybug in the first place. The "theme" of the show, and why I fell in love with it, was always "A chaque problemme, il y a un solution-- to every problem there is a solution". It was Marinette's creativity and ability to use Lucky Charm as the perfect puzzle piece to defeat the villain that made the show so appealing. Marinette's unbridled creativity, her dettermination, and her willingness to put in the work by hand to achieve what she wants. Season 5 felt like she was just getting kicked over and over, and that message was lost.
The Bug Noir V. Monarch fight was very rad though, gotta say... Until Marinette's brain turned off and she detransformed right in front of her mortal enemy as a "show of good faith", of which there was clearly none. The Kwami's even tried to tell her so. What a joke.
I remember when I got into miraculous ladybug back in 2016 or 17 and I saw that there was a theory that hawk moth was Adrian's uncle and that hawk moth was Gabriel's twin brother who was secretly in love with Adrian's mom and that truly Adrian was really hawk moth son and Gabriel took over his brother's life when he realized he was evil and took Emily and Adrian away from him and that's why he was really a kooma ties in people and I honestly wish this have been the plot of the show at this point for his character cuz it would have made sense as to why Gabriel was kind of cold to him cuz Adrian's not his real son he's his evil brother's son and he just doesn't really know what to do with him or I don't really interact we could have had Gabriel to his own way trying to bring Adrian's mom back cuz he was in love with her but instead of him being hogmaul he could have just been the one making potions and different things are using all the money and resources he had trying to figure out how to save her alone the other end his brother would just went evil he never knew how to stop him
Yeah I agree
Same here
Would have made a lot more sense for Gabriel to be reddemed if this theory was true. It actually sounds better than what actually happened
I kinda liked the idea that Gabriel was a Senti-Monster the entire time.
Oh and anyone else notice Kagami doesn't make sense yet ?
All Tomoe did was go blind, where as Mr. Fathom died and Emelie & Nathalie nearly so, why ?
That is why I joke she's actually and Android and the real Tomoe died prior to them leaving Japan.
@@90lancaster ooh it all makes sense now
THE WRITERS SHOULD BE EMBARRASSED OF THIS WHOLE MESS!!! Adrien doesn’t deserve this treatment! Jeremy Zag was a better writer. But honestly, I don’t want Adrien to be a villain, I don’t want the kids to be upset.
I knew for a fact that after that horrendous finale made me lose any respect I had left for the show. Not only did they just cart Chloe off they also did to Adrien. Basically it's showing, Cat Noir is a sidekick he's not important compared to Lady Bug. And that redemption towards Gabriel, like what? Did the writers forget the abuse he made his son go through not to mention extorting people's emotions causing actual literal of thousands of dollars of damages to the city, risking people's lives, (you cannot tell me not one person has died during Akumatization attacks) and what he gets a damn statue? For what, because he didn't want Adrien to know what he did?
I call BS.
I heard supposedly Thomas left production, and if that's true, hopefully they can redeem this show. But at this point I don't know if I even wanna go back anymore.
Luka left and came back, Alix left & came back, so I guess Chloe will show up again too. even if only so they can keep being so horrible to her.
Supposedly she does feel bad about Sabrina and does try to make up with her at some point.
@@90lancaster I would love that so much, honestly this would be a good opportunity to make her learn humility, being away from her friends and make her go through some self reflection and see if that's really the life she wants to have.
Ok they say chloe is going to be back but idk anymore if she will be back will she change?
@@user-soneinewholazyforcontent I wanna say yes, (especially since I heard that supposedly Astruc left production) and there's since a chance that Chloe could come back after getting a taste of real life away from her pampered life in France and start developing. But at the same time I have so much doubt that she would, especially after what she did
@@darkyami12141 yes I agree too
You have really good comedic timing! Made me chuckle a few times.
Great points too! ^_^ Yes, the show is very off base on who the focus should be on and excluding the one most involved in the conflict was a mistake.
Omg hiii
@@lexxlikesart hiiii! 😁
@@TheArtisticAloubell huge fan
@@lexxlikesart ❤️ thank you ❤️
I believe Adrien should’ve been the protagonist. He is closely related to the villain which makes it seem like that the build up to that fight between him and monarch would’ve been better than with the villain’s son’s girlfriend.
Astruc and his writing team feels like first time writers because Marinette feels like their first ever OC hence why her traits are impossibly OP and has an evergrowing list of people that fell in love with her; while Adrien is their secondly created character hence the sky high trauma list yet still has horrible writing due to their lack of experience. Its why I latched on to the Miraculous movie Jeremy made so quickly because even though the pacing is a bit off the concept of that alternate reality of the show makes much more sense to me especially character-wise.
Worst part is that I know how they could have solved the issue. If someone had freed a random akumatized warrior and the one was Adrien as he did activate the ring. They were able to teleport around and then with him back he can turn into Chat Noir those damned chuckle heads.
5:43 I asked Thomas austruc via twitter why she was so shocked abt Gabriel being Monarc even tho she knew it from the previous episode and all he said was that sometimes ppl don't believe or realize things until they see it with their own eyes
well I had a little discussioun with him and some other ppl on twitter but after some more tweetes he just stopped answering but yeah idk austruc really makes the worst decisions but can't even logically explain them
If I could ask Thomas something it would be: after everything he's been through and all his convictions about not frivolously creating life... why did Felix make 'Once Upon A Time' in that episode?
@@JesseGolo That's what I was wondering abt like why did felix of all ppl created a sentimonster
Wouldn't it be better if he and kagami confronted marinette in person and then we'd get to see some flashbacks?
Like there were so many things that made absolutly zero sense just for the sake of the "bugnoir" storyline which is really sad
I've been watching this show since I was 7 and now I'm 15 and the most important part of the show- the confrontation between Cat Noir and Hawkmoth just didn't exist
The part I've been waiting for 8 full years was thrown out for a couple fighting sceens and some more relationship drama between the main ship (which we already had 5 seasons of) but yeah austruc really has a talent for destroying everything that has great potential
@@JesseGolo I think he made it as brainless as possible on purpose o he'd feel less guilty about killing it, he wasn't especially pleased about them killing Strike Back either though.
@@90lancaster Still doesn't make it any better, though.
The only way to make this finale work is to make adrien either become a villain or anti hero
He would start hating marinette and even join lila
The chat noir villain/antihero arc
He also needs to get a major power up
He has to become untrusting and paranoid kinda like batman since EVERYBODY lied to him i wouldnt be surprised if a dog start lying to him next season bro HAS to developp major trust issues
One of the scenes I can't believe was when Cat Noir went to London he decided to say his identity to Marinette and when he is about to her room. He said that I can't disappoint my father. Like.. what are you saying a father who don't care about his son, a father imprisoning his son in a white cube room, a father who takes his son away from the love of his life. If I had a father like that I'd ratherdisappoint him and tell the truth to Marinette
I totally agree, Adrienne should have in this finale, he was part of Gabe's story. Lady Bug and Cat Noir fighting against Hawk Moth would allow the fight to be even more powerful and epic and after defeating the two, making his son watch as he gives his life for the mother even more heartbreaking. Just imagine the lines said to Adrienne instead, "Don't remember me for the villain I became but the father who always loved you." That would have been more epic than "Girlfriend of my Son, keep my secret to keep him happy." Adrienne gave up his protagonist role and was shuffled off screen as the maguffin in Gabe's story. I can only guess this was done to keep more loose ends open for the following seasons, like when Adrienne finds out the truth.
That is likely why the showed Cat Blanc so much saying Adrien is to easily manipulated due to his lack of Freewill into being akumatised and then that resulting in doom for everyone.
i absolutely love the fact you consistently use the term sentibeing and not the derogatory term most people use for them
At this point I'm over the main characters. Marinette is creepy, Adrien never does anything and now that they're finally, romantically together, I can't find many fans that actually care.
I would love it if Adrien discovers who Monarch is, let his anger take over and kills his father. That would be more satysfying than hearing lies about making Gabriel looked like a hero when he; destroyed the town multiples times by turning citizens into villains, never cared about his son untill he got cataclysmed which is selfish; when your healthy your not with him but when your dying now your nice? That doesn't make sense! Also, he tried to kill Adrien because he didn't know that his kid was Chat noir. Sacrificing his life to revive Emilie is NOT enough to erase all the horrible things the adult did. I can't forgive him and Adrien too shouldn't. His father deserved a punishment, dying in his wife's arms is less painful than being killed by Chat noir. It would be more satisfying plus Adrien would realise how horrible his father was and won't want to be like him 🙂
I agree with you! It would also be more satisfying if he had gone to jail
@@blancacarrascolopez7305 In the words of Buttercup in Toy Story 4: “Dad’s totally going to jail!”
It's sad how they miused Chat/Adrien. I know the story roll around Marinette, but he's also titular hero. He's good example how even "rich kid" can have bad enviroment (like family) and still fight to be better and for himself (and not bully like Chloe). And damn, what they do to him in finale was idiotic, not even involving him in his family story... this show writing is such a mess...
It's funny to me that Adrien Agreste is the same character type as Chibiusa from Sailor Moon, they both have the same roll on their stories but Adrien, sadly, doesn't have something like Chibiusa's Black Lady thing. They both feel lonely, they both have sassy irreverent personalities, they're both related to a villain important plot, they're both very close to the protagonist and both characters best friend is a black cat (one is a ball and the other is Plagg), it's disappointing considering that Black Lady is one of the most memorable things on Sailor Moon and the fact that Chat Noire has even MORE reasons to become a villain than the Small Lady. Adrien is always pushed aside, ignored, no one trust him, his teammate hides more and more secrets from him every day, his dad was the villain, all that madness is to resurrect his mom and absolutely everything that is happening is because he was born, can you imagine what they could've done with that feeling of guilt and loneliness? Black Lady would be terrified if Chat Blanc was something properly written.
Tbh I'm not surprised because they kept casting Adrian/Chat Noir away for 2 seasons focusing on Marinette/ladybug instead.
Kagami had more happen with her in a few episodes than the protagonists did in 5 seasons.
@@90lancasterikr😭
It would off been cool if Adrien/ Cat Noir had been present to help Ladybug defeat Hawkmoth an arc for season six could off been Adrien constantly worry that he could be come just like his father.
A plotline that isn't about his relationship with Marinette? Are you kidding? This is the character who, on the form to figure out what he wants to do with his life was like: "I don't know. I love Marinette."
In My opinion. Adrian should have been the real protagonist. He actually has more Protagonist story
In my opinion I think they should've gone with the original dual protagonist thing like constantly switching point of views and giving both Adrien and Marinette equally important scenes and roles.
Adrien is more connected to the lore of the story but in day to day things he couldn't exactly be out for 5 seasons unless Gabriel approved, and Marinette is a lot more proactive in that regard .
All and all, the show would've benefitted if they gave equality to both protagonists instead of just Mari
@@ishashifar it would if Astruc actually knows how to write characters properly
@@BloodEdgeExtreme2000The day that happens is when Disney finally stops doing reboots
@@jojomuppet1820 the day Disney stops making lifeless reboots is when Hollywood stops blackwashing redheads and white skinned characters
@@BloodEdgeExtreme2000the day that happens is when racism ends and people start to be emotional healthy
💀Adrian be here and that's all😡
💀Adrian' s mother be sweet & that's all😡
💀New Hawk Moth be same story😒
12:01 Remember! They both became “adults” in revolution, yet that means NOTHING to Adrian’s character whatsoever.
Miraculous: Tales of Ladybug and that one other guy
Well the “London” special just reenforced it.
I feel like most of the fandom agrees with you man. Adrien was done dirty. The only hope for season 6 is if Thomas stays away from the show and has no say in anything
I agree with you Astruc is good at worldbuilding but he isn't that good at writing narratives, compare that to the movie where Astruc wasn't involved with it at all, if we got a movie style direction by giving both Adrien and Mari equal roles in the next season I'd be down for it
Part of me hopes Adrien will find out the truth about his father in season 6. Possibly hold some resentment toward Marinette/Ladybug for keeping it from him and depriving him of the chance to say goodbye.
The more I watch videos on Miraculous, the more satisfied I am with my decision to stop watching the show.
My idea for the season 5 finale. Felix frees Adrian and Kagami from their imprisonment. Felix explain how Monarch basically is using the alliance rings to trap people in a dazed state and currently Ladybug is facing off against him. Adrian powers up into his astral cat form to get back to Paris. Adrian arrives and helps Ladybug fight Monarch. Monarch is too powerful and manages to knock out cat noir. As Gabriel is about to take the cat miraculous Marinette grabs the unconscious Cat noir and tries to wake him up. Noticing that she can't beat Monarch alone she gets the idea to take the cat miraculous and powers up to Bug Noir. The 2 battle and while this happens Adrian wakes up noticing he's detransformed. He noticed Ladybug unified the cat and Ladybug miraculouses and is fighting hawkmoth so goes to see if anyone else was safe in the house. He finds Natalie's corpse and finds a video message from his mother on her tablet. He watches the video and realises the identity of Hawkmoth. He goes off to stop hawkmoth from fighting Ladybug. He tells Gabriel to stop this since this wasn't what Emily wanted and that they could still be a family together. Gabriel tells Adrian that he needs to do this and reveals the cataclysm mark on Gabriel. He apologized to his son and uses second chance. He fights Ladybug and gets the upper hand on her this time around. Adrian arrives and sees Ladybug detransform back to Marinette. Gabriel uses venom on both Marinette and Adrian. He detransforms and faces his son one final time before apologizing for everything he's done and hopes this will make up for it. He makes his wish and Gabriel dies, the public is aware of his villainy, Marinette and Adrian are dating fully aware of each other's secret identities but in the shadows Lyla takes the butterfly miraculous as she takes the title of the next hawkmoth.
Now there are a couple of plot holes here and I did take some of your ideas but hopefully this would be a desired ending everyone would like.
YOU ARE A BETTER WRITER THAN ASTRUC! GREAT IDEA!
To be honest putting Adrien in London would be considered responsible move considering that Gabriel and Nathalie were on their death beds, so in that role would go to his aunt who lives in London. That's what I thought, but he put him in isolation room 💀
I stopped watching Miraculous a while ago but its so fun to watch people tearing that show apart
16:09 Istg though, instead of making Gabriel want Adrien to end up with Kagami, just make Gabriel hate Marinette. It makes significantly more sense and would probably work better for the plot anyway.
I hope adrien gets a villain arc from this (i have no faith).
Like he deserves it.
Honestly after this, he should not trust anyone anymore.
I really want him to bergrugingly work with laila. I feel like they could have a cool dynamic. And adrien literally has the power of distruction and can use it unlimitedly now. That is super op (not like the show will let him be)
But obviously the writers wont let the villain arc happen. 😞
I hate the "wait for next season" excuses. They've used it this whole arc, now we're at the very end of it, and some fans will still justify any plothole with "it's too soon to judge, let's see season 6, then 7, then 8..."
In all honesty i feel enough time has passed. 5 seasons, 8 years, that was more than enough time for anything to had been fixed by now.
Exactly and what does that even make of news fans who want to watch the show? That they have to wait and slog through 5 seasons of mediocrity until season 6 and 7 suddenly gets good??? Screw that
Doesn’t lila know everything about Adrien and his father being hawkmoth/monarch? I guess a major reveal in season 6 would be where lila tells Adrien the whole truth (sentimonster) and he just feels betrayed and goes crazy lol maybe Cat blanc 2.0? Idk for me personally season 1-2 were the best. Everything was simple only 5 guys had a miraculous. Ladybug and Chat Noir duo was present. And not everything was so complicated. But since we have a new villain now (I’m sure Lila will also somehow find out who’s ladybug) the show could go a route that no one would expect. I just hope that the show will end in like maybe 2-3 seasons with marinette taking all the miraculous back and only chat noir and her being left as miraculous holders. And of course the identity reveal needs to happen WITHOUT someone setting the time back.
I don’t understand why they nuked Adrien & Gabe’s final confrontation when they were CLEARLY building up to it in part 1 of the finale when Cat Noir was beating down on Gabe when he was “akumatized” when trying to find Adrien. Like the writers clearly see the drama there but then they just….don’t do anything with it. And now it’s going to just continue to be never addressed, or be used as trauma porn for his storyline in the future because he never got a proper confrontation.
THIS IS SO MEEEEE literally you took the words out of my mind with this video (with the difference adrien is my favorite character so this finale just was 100 times worst)
The guy making the movie version isn’t he coming back and I hope he reboots the whole show well actually season 3 and the rest of the season after that.
Sebastian and Jeremy are supposed to be more in charge of Season 6, but they are supposedly doing a Miraculous Movie Sequel so they might wander off to do that at some point.
Wanna know something? Even the chorus of the German intro of miraculous doesn’t include chat noir. They don’t say 'miraculous, simply the best' etc.. they say 'i am ladybug, I bring you luck and strongly believe that it succeeds' instead and even in chat noirs part it’s all about ladybug 😭 so yeah it’s all about her
To be fair, "Miraculous Ladybug" actually IS the original title of the show. The "Tales of Ladybug and Chat Noir" part only came when it was dubbed to the other languages, probably to attract boy viewers since there is this idea that boys don´t watch shows about girls which unfortunately can be still true. So based on that, Ladybug/Marinette was always meant to be the one and only true protagonist. It´s just weird how the story and even the entire characterization of Marinette was designed to revolve around Adrien.
Thomas is a sadistic man who likes to torture his creations.
I’ve said it on another video but I’ll say it again
Adrien is one of the most tragic characters in the whole show. Abused by everyone including his friends, marionette, ladybug (I’m saying these two separately because he doesn’t know they are the same person so he has different experiences with both ladybug and Marinette) the writers and his own father.
Adrien was pretty much a sheltered trophy boy who couldn’t even be himself because of his fears and insecurities and desire to make his parents proud to compensate all he asked for was friends and a normal life. Instead he encounters a girl who thought he was an bad guy before getting to know him, being stalked and harassed by her so much that he views her as a friend and gets gaslit by everyone that everything is completely normal. Then he becomes a hero and gets to be his true self only to have his limelight stolen by Ladybug who he falls for and let’s walk all over him because no one told him how love works and what’s wrong or right in it so he’s pushy but tries to do everything to make sure she succeeds even when she makes mistakes she’s forgiven no conquenses, meanwhile he gets scolded and beaten down for every little thing he does wrong. He’s abused and neglected so bad he even akumatizes because all he wants is for all the pain to stop.
He becomes a sidekick even though he’s been put to the side his whole life and if anything gets worse when he finally falls for marionette she lies and gaslights him to view his own terrible father as a hero. So all that abuse from long ago? Nah can’t be bad turns out his dads a good guy all along.
I really hope Adrien snaps and gives marionette what she deserves. I would rather have a whole season from his perspective.
If I missed anything feel free to add to how badly adrien was treated in this show.
honestly they could have made this work if they just let gabe be nuanced. arguably the man has a understandable plan. pretend to be a villian by creating a 'villian' to create chaos so the ladybug and chat miraculous will be forced to be activated to stop it since he couldnt track it down a different way(since fu was in hiding). if he wins he knows he will free the victim and reverse all the damage with the newly aquired ladybug miraculous. then he will use the wish to wake up and cure his wife from the damage she had from using the broken peacock to have a child who can then just return to regular wife since they have the 'missing' cover story. probably saying she went away to get treatment she didn't know would work or not where she didnt want to get her families hope's up or be seen if she died...but yay she's back and healed. have it where they don't know all the details about the wish since they didnt have a translated version of the book(since fu and the guardians were gone and everything). and so its not like he had professionals to go to for a alternate way to save her since teh guardians were gone and its clear they had already tried science and other routes to fix her. and him showing he was the mastermind as hawkmoth to the public keep the blame on him and not the akuma victim. the victim won't remember what they did. which can minimize the trauma and he has teh illusion of consent since they have to agree for him to akumatize them.
and if he wins he will reverse the damage and if he loses ladybug reverses the damage...so gabe has the illusion that no one would REALLY get hurt. AND he has the illsuion of contrl as hawkmoth since he can take away powers and talk to the victim so he probably thoight he could control things enough he knew no one was in actual danger.
this is actually PERFECT because a normal person could actually easily convince themselves of this pretend to be a villian plan to lure out the thing to save a loved one..especially if there is something so no damage is permanent..and him seeing this from afar would increase that sense of distance...what he's doing IS still bad...but its also at its core a pretty simple understandable plan that does have safty features.
If they make it that while gabe APPEARS unreasonable and mean...it turns out its all a act to get under people's skins to create akumas for a chance to save his wife and give his son his mother back it creates way more nuance where we can judge him for it but its raises more questions...like in collector...gabe made a show of making a mess t set up a scenerio of akumatizing himself over a book he wasnt actually that angry about but was a good way to take suspicion off himself logically...and we saw him genuinely worried about adrien when he came too from collector and he apologized to adrien properly and spelled out how gaeb was thoroughly in the wrong even though adrien did steal and lose the book. and when mari returned it...gabe actually was imressed and acknowledged that took bravery for her to come forward about it after adrien was already in trouble and he didn't shout or berate her...he was understanding. even agreeing not to tell adrien she took it when she asked. was proud she admired his son adrien and even answered her question about where he got the book even though it was sensative information. alot of moments change once you relize gabe might act mean or do something bad to get a akuma specifcially and it might not ACTUALLY be what the thinks.
like point out that gabe and the mom had roles they relied on...like how she was better at emotions and gabe was more disipline and rules like some dad and moms are as parents,....but he wasnt ready for her to be gone so doesnt know how to be a single parents for adrien and fill that void...and instea dof getting better at it wanst to bring her out of her coma since he thinks that best for adrien. assuming himself(gabe) is bad at emotion stuff ratehr than it just being about lack of practice.
how technically gabe's issue was that he knew the mom was alive(in a coma but aive) and that he was busy trying to save her but he forgot that adrien DOES NOT have that context and taht from adrien's perspective the mom went missing after being very sick and most likly disappeared to die away from her family and that his dad is probably in denial about it and is throwing himself into work to distract himself in his grief. adrien wants to support his dad and have his dad's support through the grief but he thinks his dad is in denial and that his dad is both distancing himself andbeing controling at times as a unhealthy way of handing his emotions.
the set up is THERE for nuanced Gabe. heck even him being so much worse could have been addressed properly EASILY if they just connected it to the side affects from using the miraculous. they had established that a Major side affect was literally going INSANE. gabe was not chosen OR trained to use the miraculous nor screenedfor mental strength. they made a point of showing your mental state while using the miraculous has a significant affect on the miraculous, the wearer and the power. even just a LITTLE bit of off emotions can throw off the balance as just master fu's resenment toward tehr order mixed with his honesly innocent intention of getting food while knowing he wasn't supposed to result in a sentimonster that ate all the guardians and had a singleminded focus on eating all the miraculi which scared fu to the point of taking the miraculouses and trying to flee again despite decades of silence.
your telling me gabe using the miraculous DIRECTLY affecting emotions for personal reasons due to his grief, desperation, justified anger that his wife was hurt, fear if his son being without the mom and with his 'i can fix it' mentality where he was amplifying his OWN goal of saving his wife and getting the miraculouses and putting that singlminded goal with his amplified negative emotions into all the akumas who's anger and hurt he could sense and ALSO feel Daily, if not multiple times a week WOULDN'T have a affect on his untrained unvetted mind? considering akumas can seem like they are incontrol or think they are when in reality they are very difficult to reason with, volatile over stuff(even just their name) and not thinking clearly due to akuma influence. and we saw that you are almost compelled to agree... where even marinette struggled to resist? Gabe's bad writing ends up looking a BIT more compelling once I noticed he was showing the same symptoms as the akuma victims. hyper fixation where it was a struggle for them to see other options to their problems or that what they were doing wasn't actually helping them and normally something thye would never do(like a grandmoth trying to blaster her granddaughter and her friends for example). getting more agressive. could get oddly simpleminded or miss pretty obvious options. like the dude didnt think to use the timetravel miraculous for hsi wife which nathalie roasted him on?(like I want to believe he didn't becuase he knew that for adrien to exist teh wife needed to do use but couldn't tell nathalie that and didn't want to risk adrien's life)(but it honestly still works as his weird fixation on the miraculouses where he missed a obvious fix not using the wish.
how the dude did stuff weridly out of character and way mroe evil which made NO sense for his character motivations that were careless...like the WHOLE newyork debacle (freak NUKES and the MOON were in danger but even more the permanent damage to the city when he could have just had the sentimonster go around til ladybug and chat actually appeared so all the damage would reverse like he normally would)or hongkong. him putting his loved ones in danger without really thinking about it when normally he gives off protective vibes which we know was athink before hawkmoth and we saw on startrain. like we've seen some akumas snap ot of it a bit. santa getting distracted by a present for him trap, melanie refusing to attack ivan cuz she loves him even in horrificator, nate seemingly convinced to not attack choe due to a date with mari, darkcupid realizing theres no point in hitting chloe but still attacking other people.
not to mention using it the wrong way but also using multiple miraculouses all at the same time...like yes he found a loop hole that wasnt tried before but that doesnt mean its perfect and we saw mari struggle even with her own but also that it wasnt tried before like that and that people have literall gone insane.
heck how gabe is more agressive/volitile as hawkmoth/in the suit....like gabe definitly wasnt great with his son but actually if you look closely he DOES actually give in to adrien more often then you'd think. letting adrien go to school, in collector with his apology and owning up he was in the wrong and needs to trust adrien more, letting adrien go to the music festival after he actually talked with adrien properly for a bit, letting evertone stay for a christmas party during the christmas special, letting adrien go to marinettes birthday and giving advice on the charm, it was a lie but he did let adrien go to newyork and let himself be 'convinced'. apologized and did sit down with adrien about the mom's movie...but its usyually only after having actual moment or mire time with adrien as gabe....but only when gabe actually hangs with adrien for a bit...which might actually remind gabe properly of his proper emotions unlike as hawkoth where he is seperated the most from adrien even more...like how evenwhen your trying to talk or distract a akuma you need specific people...but even then akumas can turn agressive and justify that aspect of themselves.
just have the show ACTUALLY point out that gabe was getting worse and worse and thinking less clearly due to having used the miraculous wrong and amplifying his own negative emotions and using multiple at the same time... so he is LITERALLY more unstable...still responsible for what he's doing of course but it gives a extra sense fo tradgedy once you realize that gabe might not know about those side affects...even more nathalie who helped enable this man so he could save his wife...unknowling seeing him get worse and worse due to the miraculous but not realizing she was enabling someone she cared about to destroy himself...like someone suing a drug or alcohol pushing themselves toward burning while thinking more was teh answer to their problems. that way we see that gabe WASN'T always this bad/abusive piece of shit and it can be affect just like how some adults lose themselves due to grief and struggle to come out of that.
it would even have a hint like back in simon says when gabe was literally willing to almost die where the akuma turned him into a airplane were he was going to jump off a rooftop...but also in how adrien hd tried convincing his dad of the danger and to go to safty and chat noir and gabe's interaction hinted that gabe is stubborn and doesn't take care of himself. which can also touch on his pride becuase gaeb thinks no one is in actual danger and that he is in control...like rememerb when adrien jumped off the tower with akuma gorilla...on the surface its easy to say gabe is horrible and abusive and almsot killed his son...but gabe GENUINELY never actually thought his won was in danger there becuase he thought his son was chat noir and that he;s transform...but once it occured to him he might ACTUALLY be wrong he released ladbug to save adrien...but til then gabe genuinely never thought he was actually putting adrien in danger. even the newyork gaslighting shit.....TERRIBLE of GABE 100%. but also from gabe's perspective he was keeping his son safe by sending him back to Paris and just wanted to do it quickly and efficently which wasn't entirely wrong...and consideringthat town did also still have villians..gabe was thedanger and horrible...but he was using his reputation to be unreasonable...just as he using his reputation as a greiving isolated weirdo to get away with being a ass and people thinking he's just bad when he is being that bad purposfully to get akumas to save his wife.
I hate gabe to bits but if they had just NOT undercut every nuanced moment the man had by undermineing his feelings toward his wife and son he could still be terrible but it would at least logically make sense where you understand where he got like this where he genuinely thinks he means well..with te tradgedy that his grief and him amplifying tryingt to get the miraculous and his negative emotions and feeling like he was failing his family it could REALLY work. even him being a ass if you realize he might be acting that way on purpose to cause akumas it calls some of that into question...and were the more outlandish agressive stuff is due to the insane affects from the miraculous.
honesly I don't hate marinette. the problem is what they show us doesn;t match what they tell us we are seeing and what they are implying how we are suppoused to interprete her...which understandable will get under people's skins because if they tell us she's super nice and perfect and emans well all the time then it makes her flaws we CLEARLY see stand out becuase she honestly ISN'T that nice. so like you...its easy to say she's horrible since its not being called out and we don''t want that behaviour considered as good or unproblamatic when it clearly IS a issue.....but then other people will think she is being written wrong becuase they are telling us she's perfect and nice and good at other times but its not matching what she shows. and then otehr parts it can seem like only her flaws ro issues are notice or adressed since thats what the show says its gioal is with her learning lessons.
honestly mari actually is written pretty consistant ...once you throw out the idea she has to be a perfect rollmodel and we aren;t suppoused to see her as 'right' and justsee her as a flawed character she is actually great. I actually LOVE more selfish/self focused flaws. like I've seen people say she is forgiving to a fault and puts up with so much...but its atcually WAY more interesting because she isn;t inerently good....but she also isnt inherently bad either.
she tends to suck at reading other people or accurately guessing how they are feeling. she can be good at sympathy sometimes but not empathy most of the time and she does GENUINELY care about her friends and will go out of her way to help them...but she also sometimes wont handle it the best. like I think one of the best cases what guiltrip. she assumed the issue was about her with julieka and made it more abot her at first and unlike adrien who was a good listener and let julieka vent and who wanted to follow what julieka wanted(which was to keep it private fromthe rest mari brought everyone else over). mari was focused on "FIXING' the promlem. a problem solver type...while not the best at the emotion part with julieka and rose as we saw marinette was also one fo the big ons who couldn't hide that she knew and couldnt act natural at all. mari was 100 percent good intentioned and some stuff did work out...but we also clearly saw her flaw in her method as well compared to adrien who was softer about his approach and actually DID treat rose normally and didn;t dismiss what julieka had wanted. its true keeping it secert wasstressing julieka out and if mari hadnt outed alot fo it some of the stuff might hev been resolved for a while...but arguably adrien was more considerate about keeping the power in julieka's court. Marinette cared about alya's stress baout not telling Nino and tried to give them time for a date and all that and had listened...but we also saw her problem solving habit kick in because she was influenced by her own view a bit too much that alya didnt REALLY feel listened to/that her feelinsg were being validated by mari becuase mri was focused on just reminding her that nino couldn't know logically and comparing it to her situation with her parents...like it was mari's attemt to relate to her but it did come across unintentionally on her part as dismissing alya's issues a little which was WHY alya was still stressed enough with guilt that nino picked up on it. heck mari never finds out that mari telling alya to strait up lie to nino directly about not being rena anymore did amplify the issue when ladybug could have told him herself first...or even just said the secert hero thing..since it made alya feel more guilt which nino picked up and misunderstood...but it also had nino think it was fine to tell civilian adrien about alya's identity since she wasn't rena anymore.
the thing is mari isn't bad. we see her worried about chat and ask if something was wrong after rockateer. has a list about how to handle chat that shows she thinks about him alot and some of it was genuinely sweet. we see her worry about her friends and want to help and genuinely feel bad when she messes up. and she does value chat...the issue is she doesn't actually think from the other persons perspective well especially when she's in a stressful situation/has her iwn thing going on..which is honestly like most teenagers. she understandably rightly judges choe alot because chloe bullies her and she doesnt have to see things from her perspective.... but it never occurs to her chloe might be going through stuff that makes her like this(the retconning/destroying chloeto be unredeemable we are outtng aside cuz thats trash). she is understandably distracted by akumas and hr own stress but it doesnt make her bad/abusive...just kindof thoughtless....
like she berated chat because understandably chat had agreed to stay in newyork and assured her thats where he'd be...just for her to find him in newyork while knowing there is a attack on paris they are stuggling to get to because a villian is getting in their way and unlike him she is used to having more information due to master fu and tikki and due to how to cope with stress she collects info. more over chat didn't immedatly tell her what he was doing in newyork...logically we know its tied to his identity so he can't tell her...but especially because chat is acting normal/a bit goofy and just going to fight the villian infront of them she MISINTERPRUTS Chat noir as not taking the situation/the danger seriously. WE can tell he is trying to focus on defeating this villian because logically the faster they beat it the faster they can go to paris and that this talk wouldnt help right ow because he DID genuinely mess up by not telling her and not watching the news closer.
but mari saw it as him being goofy/not taking thedanger and her anger seriously which is why she exagerated her anger and hurt more to make a point not realizing he WAS taking things seriously and just comparmentalizing...and chat normally has very thick skin and is the confident one. remember he was fine with offering a friendship flower and said he'd get some for himself and was the one who inspired her in origins even when they both messed up and were strangers. the chat she knows has thick skin and bounces back and he is normally able to take her stress in strdeand knows when she really means something or if she's exagerating to make a point and to take it as exageration and salt(like in gamer 2.0 and bubbler she was snappish but he didnt take iit personally and knew it was stress. chat is the confident one who always bounces back and doesnt give up even when things were really bad(like the loss of master fu and origins when she was spiralling). like she's lifted him before quite a few times even in antibug...but normally its just cuz she feels like it or a response to someone else...chat/adriem himself is pretty confident in himself and showed that aspect to her...like she's shown a bit of vulnerable sides here and there but usually undercut with a joke eventually to cover it up abit. he can normally take it and SHE knows she doesnt REALLY REALLY mean it and that she's angry at him and stressed...which normally he DOES know.
Mari doesnt really realize the impact she has on other people and uptl now chat HAS goofed off a bit when it comes to akumas were it IS easy to forget how serious he is about it. and she trusted him to stay which he broke. the RIGHT answer would have been to putaside her anger for lter and focus on the villian infront of them so they could solve it quickly and then speed to paris...but mari is a teen and its the first big attack while she's not there and where not even chat was there and mari is known to spiral and snap when stressed. then the adults chase after them after chat ends up catacyminganon due to being distracted by ladybug's words and she fixed it. and then she had to face she wasn't able to fix thedamage for the first time...and she's never actually SEEN chat noir spiral with context by that point. like.... there WAS simon says but she didn't know his personal connection and she could keep a cool head since she wasn't thrown off her game. in newyork she was spiralling herself and he's normally the one who snapps out of it. sowhen chat spiralled she was unable to stop it/didnt properly react to stop it in time cuzhe moved fast that by the time it hit her how serious he had stopped listening and booked it. she's not bad...its just a weakness she needs to work on under pressure.
like chat/adrien is better at it. like he is understanding and sooths her weven henthey make a mistake and makes sure she feels supported andcalms her down but he also isnt spiralling himself during most fo those and empathy/putting himself in other people's shows is a strength of his even with his lack of socialization an its true...unlike mari he doesnt assume the worst and doesn't assume from the get go that she has a bad reason...it doesnt accure to her chat has a valid reason to be there in newyork because she struggles to picture people outside of the bix she sees which is normal for a teen. and she was immediately horrified by the loss of chat...but its not like plagg told her it was plagg;s idea for chat not to tell her. he was just gone. she still doesnt really understand the impact of her words but she did do her best to let him know she needs him in the video from anon.
and again with adrien...mari doesnt realize how highly adrien obviously values her words...which is honestly obvious but was stronger becuase unlike everyone else mari had validated his want to go on the trip and helped make it happen. and he was already feeling at fault and like he made a mistake coming and that he was a horrible chat and that there was permanent damage to paris so he had looked to mari to validate that she felt he should stay orthat she wanted him to ar at least that the time he spent there wasnt wasted...but due to her emotional stress in general and nt realizing how much adrien values her words she was slow to respond and held back again. mari mean well...she's slow to respond.
even later like in wishmaker...yes she can sound a bit dissmissive of chat saying he didn't have a childhood wish...but mari tends t project her OWN expereinces on things and chat generally seems happy and social n how he portrays himself AND she is stressed from her own risk of her wish making her maskless and the akuma in general so didn't realize how he was serious. she did try to sooth him a little but it makes sense fro a teen to not get it.
with max she was distracted by her own want which was the train with adrien in videogames that she convinced herself it was fine despite alya reminding mari that maz had been training for months and looking forward to the tournament and she trusted max that he was fine. but she did eventually her motive wasn't good and offered her own spot to make nce she was confronted how negative he had been feeling.and she felt genuinely terrible about it.
even alya when she told alya to lie to nino about not being rean anymore....mari was genuinely trying to be there for her and relate bringing up her own experiences...but kept getting side tracked at reminding alya just to keep the secert and aving logical reasons which didnt actually make alya feel listened to...and she asked alya to lie instead of just telling nino herself as ladybug. mari meant well...just wasn't connecting entirely...
same in guiltrip mari had assumed mari was the problem with julieka burtsing into tears which was very self focused...but she did genuinely want to cheer her up...but her fix it mentality kicked in where she brought in everyone despite the fact julikea wante to keep it on the downlow and told her so...adrien was better at listening to julieka and keeping the power in julieka's court...and adrien was better at actually treating rose and julieka normally unlike mari who couldnt help meddling and who did not have a good pokerface.
chat has a life outside of being chat bt mari forgets that sometimes because she only sees chat noir as chat becuase that is something she struggles with. needing to be told how someone feels more directly to understand better is needed for mari in a different way that adrien. mari tends to judge a bit quickly and have assumptions already made where it can be a struggle for her to adjust it a bit to the change...lieknhow mari assumed chat's feelings were just him bantering and joking all the way til darkcupid where sometimes she needs a bit of a reminder he's serious....but also sometimes eh projects how she handles her OWN crush onto chat....
not realizing that chat genuinely did mean the flower platonically and was actually interested in kagami. or how sometime chat just wants to express his feelings and doesnt actaully expect her to change her mind or anything like that when unlike him mari is very goal oriented when it comes to her confessions and wanting the feelinsg returned.
girl isn't abusive..just a bit thoughtless...especially because she is busy AND because chat DOES actually purposefully hides/doesnt approach his problems with her much....first is cuz adrien is considerate and like with his father he knows she is under alot of stress and wants to lift the weight for her so he does what he can. but that has a issue where mari tends to need someone to directly tell her the issue. how is she suppoused to knwo if chat doesnt't tell her...and chat/adrien has a bad habit of hiding how much something bothers him fro a while before he blows up. like plagg had no idea how much adrien disliked being left out of the master fu loop in siren until adrien blew up...and we were also surprised because adrien didn't show it. but she did still approached master fu about it like he asked her to do. chat was ALSO purposefully hiding how affected he was by arriving late to akumas or after it was over. everytime she DID notice something he assured her things were fineso how is she suppoused to know? even in kuroneko her answer was to sooth the public clearly...how was she she suppoused to think he forgot about her answer in the newyork special? she thought she already gpt across how important he was to her.
simple asnswer - Astruc is on crack witht eh writers and has favourtisim over a good story and lore..relies on fanfics and theories for future plot...etc. excuses and ignores valid criticism..Like dang-with Chloe..Luka and Chat Noir's downfall..Felix and Kagami ohh my...just bad
Hmm has it been confirmed he steal fan fics ?
I read the miraoclus bible last year. (the one leaked all the story up to season 5) but the fact that the bible was an old script makes me sick. I remember reading the last episodes script and even the old scripts said he wasnt going to learn he wasnt going to be in the fight, bugnoir etc. I thought it was STC. It should have been STC.
It’s crazy being able to watch the downfall of a show that is definitely reboot worthy. I’ve only ever been on the other side of reboots. This is great.
Just so long as nobody lets that manchild who couldnt write to save his own life anywhere near it!
What truly amazes me is that this is literally adrians father!! I somewhat understand that mari doesn’t want chat blanc to happen but its possible for that to not happen, it sucks..i really expected adrian to have more light to stop his father.
Why is he life like that?!! Cracked me up and had me dead! You are so real for this video! I finally dont feel crazy!!
at this point, it kinda just feels like they want to erase adrien out of the entire show completely but if they did that then they know that no one would be watching the show at all because he's a fan favorite, and i feel like i know the reason why they are doing this in the first place and it's because miraculous is supposed to be a show for "only girls" therefore, Marinette is the main character and shes the only main character and she can't have anyone on her side that's a boy that's actually competent, because girls need "Strong female characters". and that's not what a strong female character is! we need to teach young girls that are EQUAL to boys not that they are SUPERIOR. And what about the boys watching this show? where's their role models? and if ya'll wanted this to be a show only for girls, THEN WHY IS ADRIEN IN THE SHOW IN THE FIRST PLACE? oh, so marinette can have a romance of course. but then why is he a superhero? oh, so they can have the dramatic love square of course.
You know what else pisses me off other than finale the fact thay felix trusted RANDOM PERSON (aka Marinette) tells her the whole truth but hides it from HIS COUSIN adrien yes i get it he doesn't know that adrien is cat noir and he wanted lb to help but still! This is so messed up many of them including nathalie felix and Marinette talk about adrien being free while they trap him in a lie just like gabriel did
hawkmoth was literally a terrorist. remember when he threatened to launch nuclear missiles in the new york special to start a world war? and they still excuse his actions???