Just saying you most likely got horrible performance on the Phoenixes because you were firing in active pause and weren't giving a speed advantage to the missiles.
Correct. That’s why you see such a dramatic difference on Phoenix shot #1 vs Bandit #1 compared to the ones fired on Bandit #2 - because I got distracted chatting and forgot to toggle active pause off again before engaging bandit #2.
@@ShakespeareSims You might have hit with the second Phoenix, you launched at that SU-27, if you had aimed for him by centering the turned around 'T' in your HUD or VDI, as this would have given your Phoenix the best lead to the flight path of the enemy fighter. On a sidenote, I never hit with more than the first Phoenix, for what reason ever.
That is simply not true. If it were, those missiles would've popped out of the sky BEFORE reaching the target, but as you can see, the first Phoenix fired at the second Flanker went all the way to the sea (and was WAY ABOVE the target when it was supposed to hit), and the second Phoenix visibly flied by the Flanker. My best bet is the second Flanker simply defeated them. After all, the Phoenix is a very heavy missile, not very maneuverable (at least compared to Sparrows, Sidewinders and, of course, even early AMRAAMs). It's not very effective against 4th gen fighters.
I think that the bad phoenix performance is rather explained by the low launch altitude and lack of manual lofting. Firing below 30k feet and without pitching up is a recipe for suboptimal phoenix performance.
Just a tip, I don't know why you were measuring distance on F10 map for the second bandit, you had precise info on your TID repeater display. Also you can judge the range for non-highlighted (hooked) targets by the dashed spokes denoting azimuth limits of your radar sweep. The interval for each segment is 20nm, so starting from the bottom, the end of first dash is at 20nm, the start of the next one is at 40nm and it ends at 60nm and so on.
“I don’t know why you’re measuring distance on the F10 Map.” - For demonstration purposes. To give the viewer a birds eye view of the engagement. The intended audience isn’t those of us who are very familiar with the AWG-9 and engaging targets in the Tomcat. It’s for people new to these concepts. It’s a visual aid for the demonstration - just a real time Tacview.
@@ShakespeareSims If you were "very familiar" with the AWG-9, you did a cracking job of pretending you were a rookie. The video contains several rookie mistakes and incorrect information about the AWG-9 and Jester.
@@PolarBearSeal I basically called his bluff, if that offended you, I don't know what to tell you. The awg-9 had clearly lost track, which was indicated by that x, from 7:20 onward, the awg-9 was telling him "dude, I lost track of that bandit". This is basic stuff and he missed it, even though he kept checking the TID and moving the cursor around the crossed out contact, explaining how the awg-9 was doing stuff that it actually wasn't doing, it was hard to not notice that the missile wasn't tracking anymore. He also missed it during the video editing process. If he hadn't claimed to be very familiar with the awg-9, there would've been no bluffs for me to call. He bluffed, I called it, no hard feelings, end of the story. Use me as your punching bag if you will, but I'm not the one claiming to be an expert on the awg-9 just so people watch my videos, and then failing to recognize basic TID symbology. Cheers
7:20 When you switched to the back seat, the radar lost track of that flanker, as indicated by the small X below the caret. That's why the phoenix missed, the bandit wasn't soft locked, it simply wasn't being tracked. Your altitude was too low anyway, if the AI had adopted preemptive defensive measures (like beaming or notching) instead of flying towards you, those phoenixes wouldn't have hit.
well thank you for that this will help me i have a love hate relationship with Jester and his compass thingy and i didn't realise that this could be done.
Actually Jester doesnt do much with radar. In TWS Auto radar scan elevation or azimuth, its all automatic, hands off RIO doesnt do anything. AIM 54 launch will make radar go into TWS auto every time and again, Jester doesnt do anything there, he only IFF stuff. Target prioritization is also automatic and set by AWG 9, RIO can only overrule that (but not Jester, he doesnt know how). So most of the time when you lose track (like with second bandit - his track was cross out) its because AWG9 itself lost track and its not Jester fault
Yup. I do believe the first 30 seconds of the video opened with the phrase “…to demonstrate just how little you have to use Jester to employ Phoenixes.” As in - people are commonly under the impression you have to undertake a lot of interaction with the Jester AI to employ Phoenixes. Which you do not. And I guess if we wanna be extra pedantic I could also point out “Jester” doesn’t do ANYTHING with the radar. Or any other system in the Tomcat model. Jester is not actually a RIO. Jester is a bit of clever video game theater giving a little voice and personality to some otherwise dull player interface menus and automations. So. There’s that. My point is - any references to Jester doing anything at all in this video is flavor text, my man. Or put another way … *sigh … thanks for nitpicking a bit of fun showcasing that flying the Tomcat solo and engaging targets isn’t as daunting as many new DCS players think it is.
If you want to get the best out phoenixes when playing (on pvp servers like Growling Sidewinders infamous 2) you have to configure the aircraft with these steps. Go to BVR 1. Tell Jester to turn TWS to auto even though it’s supposed to be default. 2. Set your radar scan elevation to low or middle + low at 25 to 20,000 ft and below. 3. Set scan distance to to 75 nautical miles 4. Set TID range to 100 nautical miles. 5. Change scan size to small (because everyone is in a small fighter jet) 7. Set up your counter measures with jester controlling your flares, he can’t be trusted with either and since the only way you are going to get a phoenix to track and hit its target is releasing at 45-30 nautical miles at angels 35-40,000. You’ll need to be pumping out that aluminum. *The reason I choose to control chaff is because at that altitude you will normally only be engaged by F15s,16,14’s and rarely an 18. Disclaimer this is for pvp servers .I always configure the jet to what I know, that I know, that I know is happening. If you do the mission “Hunting Jeff” you are faced with 4 Chinese J11’s while you have one wing man flying F14’s of course. With the difficulty turned on it’s highest setting, you have a 50-60% chance after firing on all to down 1-2 enemy aircraft at 45-50 miles at angels 40, On Pvp servers you’ll almost definitely be engaged by an incompetent missile fired by the enemy that’s outside of RMax or by another that is at least within Rmin. When you break to drag the incoming missile to a 90 degrees and dump your load you will be pumping a ton of chaff because before you break you’ll more than likely be at 350 KNTS. I personally have it configured to toggle between flares and chaff super quick, because once you are below the hard deck you definitely want to switch back to flares. As you l’ll be flying low and in the mountains usually being engaged my HS missiles. I’ve learned that the F14 it’s not a simple jet, if you want to splash 3 or 4 bandits per CAP and actually land back at home you have to constantly be scanning all zones and constantly working your radar.
@@Partsnotshown Great tips! I haven’t tried some of these in PVP before so I’ll definitely give it a whirl. I like where you’re thinking is at on this!
@@Partsnotshown and yeah - man - “cannot trust Jester with countermeasures” is big true facts. How many times have we all been shot down looking in the mirror at Jester going “Bro… were you even chaffing???” And Jester’s like: “I dunno. Maybe. I was pretty busy making Star Wars references and giving you grief for flying too fast, Mr Earnhardt.” 😂
@@ShakespeareSims yeah it’s pretty funny…. I hate flying the F14 in pvp because everyone is T 500 meters flying in the trenches 🫣… Thanks a lot Top Gun 2 lolol.
My biggest issue is that you cant easily swap priority targets. If they just add that ability it'd be so much better, (without having to do black magic)
True, but keep in mind that the AWG-9 can always change the priority back at any time. I would love to see priority from the front seat for sorting as well.
@@grenadespoon Yeah! I was mainly talking about the front seat (if you're working with Jester) Jester's a bit finicky. If we had more direct control it'd help when we're about to engage. Especially when sorting targets within a flight.
@@Th3Orange i hope chatgpt enters DCS and just tell the idiot jester what you want and he would understand..like, target inbound targets, closest and also try to hit the group that is closest and track all targets ready for launch phoenix..seriously this would be a blast
There are several crucial things this video doesn't tell you (or tells you incorrectly). For example, Jester doesn't set azimuth, elevation or priorities in TWS Auto, the AWG-9 does that automatically. TWS Auto has several weaknesses, for instance, it might not pick up contacts at all, like it happened to you. This might be because the bandits are masking with terrain or jamming, or maybe because the AWG-9 has the wrong elevation setting and/or the wrong aspect setting, or maybe because closure rate isn't suitable for detection / tracking, etc. I recommend that you always ask AWACS / GCI / EWR network for picture and remember the range, altitude and aspect of the bandits you want to engage. You have options in the Jester wheel menu to set radar elevation based on the bandit's range and altitude, this is what you should be using. Before switching to TWS, I always start my sweeps in RWS, which picks up contacts faster, it's a good way of getting a general picture. Once RWS has picked up the contacts, I switch to TWS, it should pick up the contacts right away. If the AWG-9 refuses to hook up contacts in TWS, despite having the correct elevation, tell Jester to change the aspect setting, If you still get no hooks, chances are that the bandit is either jamming or masking with terrain (or both), either bug out or risk a lower altitude engagement (which you might lose, since phoenixes have appalling performance below 30k feet).
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
"see this what happens when you do this when you been drinking"
Ahh a man of culture I see
smashed like and sub as soon as i heard your trailing 'ahhhh' like you spend more time on atc than in real life
I love the commentary.
Great video, thank you
love this video🤣❤!!
Just saying you most likely got horrible performance on the Phoenixes because you were firing in active pause and weren't giving a speed advantage to the missiles.
Correct. That’s why you see such a dramatic difference on Phoenix shot #1 vs Bandit #1 compared to the ones fired on Bandit #2 - because I got distracted chatting and forgot to toggle active pause off again before engaging bandit #2.
@@ShakespeareSims You might have hit with the second Phoenix, you launched at that SU-27, if you had aimed for him by centering the turned around 'T' in your HUD or VDI, as this would have given your Phoenix the best lead to the flight path of the enemy fighter.
On a sidenote, I never hit with more than the first Phoenix, for what reason ever.
Any weapons you fire in active pause get your speed from when you paused.
That is simply not true. If it were, those missiles would've popped out of the sky BEFORE reaching the target, but as you can see, the first Phoenix fired at the second Flanker went all the way to the sea (and was WAY ABOVE the target when it was supposed to hit), and the second Phoenix visibly flied by the Flanker.
My best bet is the second Flanker simply defeated them. After all, the Phoenix is a very heavy missile, not very maneuverable (at least compared to Sparrows, Sidewinders and, of course, even early AMRAAMs). It's not very effective against 4th gen fighters.
I think that the bad phoenix performance is rather explained by the low launch altitude and lack of manual lofting.
Firing below 30k feet and without pitching up is a recipe for suboptimal phoenix performance.
Just a tip, I don't know why you were measuring distance on F10 map for the second bandit, you had precise info on your TID repeater display. Also you can judge the range for non-highlighted (hooked) targets by the dashed spokes denoting azimuth limits of your radar sweep. The interval for each segment is 20nm, so starting from the bottom, the end of first dash is at 20nm, the start of the next one is at 40nm and it ends at 60nm and so on.
“I don’t know why you’re measuring distance on the F10 Map.” - For demonstration purposes. To give the viewer a birds eye view of the engagement. The intended audience isn’t those of us who are very familiar with the AWG-9 and engaging targets in the Tomcat. It’s for people new to these concepts. It’s a visual aid for the demonstration - just a real time Tacview.
@@ShakespeareSims
If you were "very familiar" with the AWG-9, you did a cracking job of pretending you were a rookie.
The video contains several rookie mistakes and incorrect information about the AWG-9 and Jester.
@@hardcard254you don't seem very concerned with correcting the record though, for all your bluster.
@@hardcard254well if it isn't the armchair ace. Cool your jets. I don't see you trying to help anyone.
@@PolarBearSeal
I basically called his bluff, if that offended you, I don't know what to tell you.
The awg-9 had clearly lost track, which was indicated by that x, from 7:20 onward, the awg-9 was telling him "dude, I lost track of that bandit".
This is basic stuff and he missed it, even though he kept checking the TID and moving the cursor around the crossed out contact, explaining how the awg-9 was doing stuff that it actually wasn't doing, it was hard to not notice that the missile wasn't tracking anymore.
He also missed it during the video editing process.
If he hadn't claimed to be very familiar with the awg-9, there would've been no bluffs for me to call.
He bluffed, I called it, no hard feelings, end of the story.
Use me as your punching bag if you will, but I'm not the one claiming to be an expert on the awg-9 just so people watch my videos, and then failing to recognize basic TID symbology.
Cheers
7:20 When you switched to the back seat, the radar lost track of that flanker, as indicated by the small X below the caret.
That's why the phoenix missed, the bandit wasn't soft locked, it simply wasn't being tracked.
Your altitude was too low anyway, if the AI had adopted preemptive defensive measures (like beaming or notching) instead of flying towards you, those phoenixes wouldn't have hit.
Is there a video about the standard procedure of how you flight and where you should be when you fire those missiles to maximise chance of hit?
well thank you for that this will help me i have a love hate relationship with Jester and his compass thingy and i didn't realise that this could be done.
thx very much. i only wanted to know how to see what jester sees but. still very helpful.
Very good explanation
I'm sold...
Actually Jester doesnt do much with radar. In TWS Auto radar scan elevation or azimuth, its all automatic, hands off RIO doesnt do anything. AIM 54 launch will make radar go into TWS auto every time and again, Jester doesnt do anything there, he only IFF stuff. Target prioritization is also automatic and set by AWG 9, RIO can only overrule that (but not Jester, he doesnt know how). So most of the time when you lose track (like with second bandit - his track was cross out) its because AWG9 itself lost track and its not Jester fault
Yup. I do believe the first 30 seconds of the video opened with the phrase “…to demonstrate just how little you have to use Jester to employ Phoenixes.”
As in - people are commonly under the impression you have to undertake a lot of interaction with the Jester AI to employ Phoenixes. Which you do not.
And I guess if we wanna be extra pedantic I could also point out “Jester” doesn’t do ANYTHING with the radar. Or any other system in the Tomcat model. Jester is not actually a RIO. Jester is a bit of clever video game theater giving a little voice and personality to some otherwise dull player interface menus and automations.
So. There’s that.
My point is - any references to Jester doing anything at all in this video is flavor text, my man.
Or put another way … *sigh … thanks for nitpicking a bit of fun showcasing that flying the Tomcat solo and engaging targets isn’t as daunting as many new DCS players think it is.
If you want to get the best out phoenixes when playing (on pvp servers like Growling Sidewinders infamous 2) you have to configure the aircraft with these steps.
Go to BVR
1. Tell Jester to turn TWS to auto even though it’s supposed to be default.
2. Set your radar scan elevation to low or middle + low at 25 to 20,000 ft and below.
3. Set scan distance to to 75 nautical miles
4. Set TID range to 100 nautical miles.
5. Change scan size to small (because everyone is in a small fighter jet)
7. Set up your counter measures with jester controlling your flares, he can’t be trusted with either and since the only way you are going to get a phoenix to track and hit its target is releasing at 45-30 nautical miles at angels 35-40,000. You’ll need to be pumping out that aluminum.
*The reason I choose to control chaff is because at that altitude you will normally only be engaged by F15s,16,14’s and rarely an 18.
Disclaimer this is for pvp servers .I always configure the jet to what I know, that I know, that I know is happening.
If you do the mission “Hunting Jeff” you are faced with 4 Chinese J11’s while you have one wing man flying F14’s of course. With the difficulty turned on it’s highest setting, you have a 50-60% chance after firing on all to down 1-2 enemy aircraft at 45-50 miles at angels 40,
On Pvp servers you’ll almost definitely be engaged by an incompetent missile fired by the enemy that’s outside of RMax or by another that is at least within Rmin. When you break to drag the incoming missile to a 90 degrees and dump your load you will be pumping a ton of chaff because before you break you’ll more than likely be at 350 KNTS.
I personally have it configured to toggle between flares and chaff super quick, because once you are below the hard deck you definitely want to switch back to flares. As you l’ll be flying low and in the mountains usually being engaged my HS missiles.
I’ve learned that the F14 it’s not a simple jet, if you want to splash 3 or 4 bandits per CAP and actually land back at home you have to constantly be scanning all zones and constantly working your radar.
@@Partsnotshown Great tips! I haven’t tried some of these in PVP before so I’ll definitely give it a whirl. I like where you’re thinking is at on this!
@@Partsnotshown and yeah - man - “cannot trust Jester with countermeasures” is big true facts. How many times have we all been shot down looking in the mirror at Jester going “Bro… were you even chaffing???”
And Jester’s like: “I dunno. Maybe. I was pretty busy making Star Wars references and giving you grief for flying too fast, Mr Earnhardt.” 😂
@@ShakespeareSims yeah it’s pretty funny…. I hate flying the F14 in pvp because everyone is T 500 meters flying in the trenches 🫣… Thanks a lot Top Gun 2 lolol.
9:06 😂
My biggest issue is that you cant easily swap priority targets. If they just add that ability it'd be so much better, (without having to do black magic)
True, but keep in mind that the AWG-9 can always change the priority back at any time. I would love to see priority from the front seat for sorting as well.
@@grenadespoon Yeah! I was mainly talking about the front seat (if you're working with Jester)
Jester's a bit finicky. If we had more direct control it'd help when we're about to engage. Especially when sorting targets within a flight.
@@Th3Orange i hope chatgpt enters DCS and just tell the idiot jester what you want and he would understand..like, target inbound targets, closest and also try to hit the group that is closest and track all targets ready for launch phoenix..seriously this would be a blast
@@Th3OrangeI wishJester could try to find and prioritize hostile targets passed through Link 4 instead of staying focused on friendly contacts 😅
💙🥰
Jester doesnt work at all i set him into tws auto and does nothing.....absolutely nothing he doesnt lock them and when i fire he doesnt switch target
There are several crucial things this video doesn't tell you (or tells you incorrectly).
For example, Jester doesn't set azimuth, elevation or priorities in TWS Auto, the AWG-9 does that automatically.
TWS Auto has several weaknesses, for instance, it might not pick up contacts at all, like it happened to you.
This might be because the bandits are masking with terrain or jamming, or maybe because the AWG-9 has the wrong elevation setting and/or the wrong aspect setting, or maybe because closure rate isn't suitable for detection / tracking, etc.
I recommend that you always ask AWACS / GCI / EWR network for picture and remember the range, altitude and aspect of the bandits you want to engage.
You have options in the Jester wheel menu to set radar elevation based on the bandit's range and altitude, this is what you should be using.
Before switching to TWS, I always start my sweeps in RWS, which picks up contacts faster, it's a good way of getting a general picture.
Once RWS has picked up the contacts, I switch to TWS, it should pick up the contacts right away.
If the AWG-9 refuses to hook up contacts in TWS, despite having the correct elevation, tell Jester to change the aspect setting,
If you still get no hooks, chances are that the bandit is either jamming or masking with terrain (or both), either bug out or risk a lower altitude engagement (which you might lose, since phoenixes have appalling performance below 30k feet).
i still have no idea how to do anything i should have never bought f14 its the most confusing thing ever i just suck
If you are still having issues join me and my buddy we fly the f18 and 14 all the time
ED needs to nerf the AI abilities. Sucks when physics apply to you but not the AI
Great video, thank you