It's always neat to debate preferences and experiences because there's always something to learn from other riders, wether it is about MTB in general or about themselves. Experimenting with setups is something all riders should do every once in a while
I'm actually glad to hear someone else say they want a stiff fork. I constantly setup my forks to recommended and then keep adding air because it never feels right. I usually end up in the 18% sag range
I don't think you can honestly go by SAG on the fork, just doesn't work. I prefer to get the bike feeling balanced which I do by bashing into a 6" curb doing about 12-15mph, standing up, pedals levels, weight even and seeing how much travel the shock and fork use. Once I get them to be using about the same percentage of between 40-50% travel, then it's time on the trail to adjust further, but yeah, I have older versions of the Fox from 2014 and hate when/if they dive easily.
I relate to this, although right now i'm stuck at 30% on my fork because i need to keep the balance with the rear shock and i'm running a 550 that still feels too soft
I’d like to see a follow up episode to this. Have each guy set your bike up how they would set it up and then judge your own bike. Who knows maybe you will take something away from that as far as bike set up.
Kind of wish the round table was done at the trail after the ride with the bikes on hand to point out the parts and stuff that is being discussed. Kind of like the daily ride bike checks that are done.
I roll my bars so backsweep aligns with the angle of my arms but Dario’s theory that forward roll is compensating for insufficient stack/rise is compelling. BMX bars ordered.
rolled forward bars are usually complimented with brake levers angled to the floor and riding with your shoulders hunched up. Because it feels right doesn't mean its helping anything....
Sweet idea doing this. Honestly I am surprised that you all ride bikes that are THAT much travel and THAT capable. It speaks volumes to how versatile they really are. I would be interested to hear how the Ohlins felt against the Fox.
Buyng an enduro or similar is 100% the safe option because you should be able to ride close to anything. With a DH bike you'll end up regretting it when you get to the hills often XD but once they're going they're amazing, plus IMO you can't beat the looks of a double crown fork
Dario right with the bar roll. But it totally depends on the bike. Kaz and Henry’s bars were looking a touch forward of neutral. Personally it starts to feel weird once it gets steep.
Maybe there's a correlation between forks too hard and bars rolled too far forward? I reckon Henry could improve his setup by rolling his bars back more, softening the forks a touch, and maintaining the same bar height by adding a 5mm spacer under the stem. Like Dario said, i used to run my bars rolled forward until better riders ridiculed and taunted me. Rolling your bars back helps to lower your CofG so is better. Obvs.
My personal experience does say that having the bars forward is a mistake, you get a lot more feel from the front wheel with the bars straight up or slightly going back, although i didn't notice if it affected how the fork behaves
The Ohlins 38 doesn’t look overly stiff to me. It looks about right. I also rolled my OneUp bars forward. I don’t like bars that bend down. The bend should be pointed towards your shoulders.
The Spire does look very handsome- for a test mule, looks like a show piece. Dario's art work would look good on a complete frame wrap. Kaz' Trek with the Cane Creek progressive spring, would be good to have other white color bits on the bike.
Curious about the bar roll ... are you guys trying to add reach, if that is the case why not a longer stem? that's the one thing that sounded odd on this interesting exercise.
It's interesting how there's no "perfect" setup, everyone is physically different and ride different, so what is perfect for yourself may not be right for the next person. I have my bars rolled forward and I am a bit ocd in setting up my bars and controls so that they are exactly the same left and right side (I use a tape measure to ensure everything is dimensionally exact). I tried to ride a friend's bike, but because of his bar roll and his controls were positioned so differently than my bike, I almost crashed because I couldn't stop. I ride with my hands all the way to the ends of my grips with my brake levers set inward to where I can only get one finger on. My friend's brake levers were so far outward, that when I went to squeeze, the lever hit my middle finger and I couldn't get full stopping power. Resulting in me riding into the brush to stop on a downhill section. I actually thought at first that his brakes had cease to work, talk about panicking. 😅
Loving your channel but would love to know how you came up with those choices Am a Yeti fan from the late 90s. Have had one. Own a 2007 carbon fibre Ibis Mojo with all the lightweight bits to boot and still going in 2023! As the Ridley never cut it with me I stick with what I know. I also have an Ellsworth Epiphany and a Titanium Moots Mountaineer XC trail bike which just won’t die! Now I’d like to see some classics stuff and component chit chat when you guys are not putting the fun and wind between your legs!
I’m interested what you have to say about those Hunt wheels on your spire. I’m debating whether to go for the XC or Enduro version for my Spark 900 which I ride quite hard
They have a trail that’s In between. I put the XC on my hardtail “grountain” bike and got some trails for my… trail bike. Haven’t ridden with the trail set yet but been very happy with the XC all last season.
can you tell more about the mazza tires. tried them onece and loved the feel in the mud and on trails but they drifted in hardpack flatcorners like crazy. predictable and safe but surprisingly early
So from you tube I get the impression that there are only downhill grades out west but how did these bikes handle climbing? Any nitpicks there? Fugly yeti for me please.
I like a lot of upsweep on my bars. It just seems to interface with my hands better, but when that is combined with a lot of backsweep, like with the PNW bar I'm currently running, the bars look horrendously rolled forward just in a neutral position to achieve the 5 degree upsweep. A bar with much less backsweep but the same upsweep, like the renthal bars, will look much more "correct" when rolled to the same upsweep position. The PNW feel great, I think I prefer them, but the way the bends work looks very awkward.
Having tried a lot of other people’s bikes I’ve encountered some objectively bad setups. One of my friends runs his levers tilted down at 45 degrees, I couldn’t reach them at that angle. My other buddy runs his rebound fully closed in the rear, feels about as dead as you’d expect but he somehow boosts off it.
Im curious what is a soft and traction focused setup psi and clickers on Darios 38, at his weight. All of fox standard setup recomendations seem so stiff and fast these days.
Could you guys give me some tips please. My wrists start to hurt after 30 mins of rising my new Orbea Occam. Any ideas what I could do to fix this. I bought the bike during pandemic and set it up myself. Thanx in advance
Many factors go into that. Bar height/roll, grip thickness, brake lever positioning, fork tuning, etc. I’d start with lever position tho and make sure your wrist is straight when you’re in the “attack” position with your finger on the brakes
Hard to say which one is my favourite given that the Fuel EX and the Spire are quite differently capable. Both of them look like a great spec. Not a fan of the Yeti though, don't like Fox suspension.
Is there a specific reason why you don't like Fox? I'm asking because most of the time i see people say stuff like that they don't give a logical reason for it. I have only ever tried Fox and RockShox, and most of the times the bikes weren't mine so i treated them nicely, but i never felt any differences that couldn't be related to tunning or maintenance.
@@Ferrari255GTO I spent the last season on my enduro on a Fox 38 Performance Elite. I thus think I have good understanding of how this fork feels and what I don't like about their dampers (that work the same from Fox 34 to 40). In comparison, the Manitou Dorado in my downhill feels like a blessing.
I feel like that is a trek wide problem. I have similar issues on my slash, and tons of others do as well in the forums. My buddy's new fuel ex also has the issue
It went together easily in less than an hour. ua-cam.com/users/postUgkxHL1v1R3NE5x4KiYfyt8dnQmyNYz7qi5L Make sure the front fork is forward or the pedals will hit the front tire. Tires are both a little soft so it needs air before I ride it. The rear wheel didn't come with a clamp regular bolts hold it on. The front had the clamp. No scratches out of box. Rims are a little off with a slight wobble. They could have spent more time with the spoke tool fixing the run out. So far out of the box I'm happy with it. I did replace the pedals with a nice aftermarket set. After riding it a bit my A$$ is a bit sore so I ordered another seat. Overall I'm nearly 60 and didn't ride a bike in 30 years. I like my new 29" Schwinn. It will be used for casual rides with my friend.
Hi Guys, great content, made me laugh and learnt a lot as well. I'm 5' 11" and you didn't mention what sizes the bikes were. I'd be interested as I'm close to your heights.
You guys are riding big whips these days. Even the 'trail bike' is coiled and over-forked. Do you think Fraser Valley BC trails for example warrant that burly of a bike or is a regular trail bike enough for the tech rugged blue trails here?
Very interesting video, but man oh man, you can tell Dario doesn't like to do any real "flat/rolling" pedaling, not with the angle of that saddle - my arms and shoulders would be so sore if I rode that.
I'm surprised they are all on sram brakes and axs. Axs is what it is, but there are lots of interesting quality brake options, basically all of which are better than Sram
Dario is a great addition to the Pink Bike family. It’s great to have you brother!
agree, I may be biased (coached him in HS track/cross-country in lil calistoga, ca)
Yep he’s great
Good to see I am not the only one who transitioned from xc running to bikes! Easier on the old body haha
Couldn't be happier to be here!
@@bikenapa505 Ha! Hey Jason
Kaz’ rotor bolts being loose makes me feel SO much better about the many many….many disasters I discovered on my bike due to poor maintenance 😂
First time seeing Dario in a video after hearing him on the podcast...fits the vibe.
I think Henry needs to get himself a transition patrol and actually follow through on that mixed wheel bike curiosity.
I love the whole PinkBike staff, but this trio is 🔥🔥🔥, please keep this format going
I’ve become more invested in the character development of the pinkbike crew than series 4 of ‘Lost’. So good.
You three holding hands is my new lock screen, so thanks for that
I think you guys are on point with more and more of this format; just people talking bikes - freeform
well, mostly freeform
It's always neat to debate preferences and experiences because there's always something to learn from other riders, wether it is about MTB in general or about themselves. Experimenting with setups is something all riders should do every once in a while
I'm actually glad to hear someone else say they want a stiff fork. I constantly setup my forks to recommended and then keep adding air because it never feels right. I usually end up in the 18% sag range
Same.
I don't think you can honestly go by SAG on the fork, just doesn't work. I prefer to get the bike feeling balanced which I do by bashing into a 6" curb doing about 12-15mph, standing up, pedals levels, weight even and seeing how much travel the shock and fork use. Once I get them to be using about the same percentage of between 40-50% travel, then it's time on the trail to adjust further, but yeah, I have older versions of the Fox from 2014 and hate when/if they dive easily.
Ohlins recommends 10-15. I can't remember mine. Running a coil.
I relate to this, although right now i'm stuck at 30% on my fork because i need to keep the balance with the rear shock and i'm running a 550 that still feels too soft
Henry in more and more videos 👍
Dario as a new face 👍
Kaz seemly coming out of his shell 👍
I like the vibe of this trio
Will Levy ever return..?
Dario seems the most relatable
I do agree with Dario's point about the saddle, I inclined mine as much and it feels soooo good in steep climbs in Bromont Quebec!
I’d like to see a follow up episode to this. Have each guy set your bike up how they would set it up and then judge your own bike. Who knows maybe you will take something away from that as far as bike set up.
This is a great idea.
Happy to see Henry in a video, I swear he hasn’t been in any I’ve watched the last year but I love his commentary, both technical and jokes.
Kind of wish the round table was done at the trail after the ride with the bikes on hand to point out the parts and stuff that is being discussed. Kind of like the daily ride bike checks that are done.
The OneUp bar has handy dandy marks that tell you how much roll to put on your bars relative to your head angle.
The marks give you a wide range of roll. Not just one position.
I roll my bars so backsweep aligns with the angle of my arms but Dario’s theory that forward roll is compensating for insufficient stack/rise is compelling. BMX bars ordered.
Ah yes the future of mtb, all the older bikes will have bmx bars and the new ones will look like choppers 😂
Aren't BMX bars super narrow tho? That'd be super inconvenient on the trails
rolled forward bars are usually complimented with brake levers angled to the floor and riding with your shoulders hunched up. Because it feels right doesn't mean its helping anything....
Sweet idea doing this. Honestly I am surprised that you all ride bikes that are THAT much travel and THAT capable. It speaks volumes to how versatile they really are. I would be interested to hear how the Ohlins felt against the Fox.
Buyng an enduro or similar is 100% the safe option because you should be able to ride close to anything. With a DH bike you'll end up regretting it when you get to the hills often XD but once they're going they're amazing, plus IMO you can't beat the looks of a double crown fork
Yesss Dario Man! Bar backsweep plane ought to be horizontal. This is the way.
I love seat of the of the pants comparisons like this.
The seatpost mounted gps is a great idea
I do that for my BMX bike, but otherwise I want to see my numbers during the ride.
Henry’s bike is the best. I may be biased as my main bike is a patrol.
Dario right with the bar roll. But it totally depends on the bike. Kaz and Henry’s bars were looking a touch forward of neutral. Personally it starts to feel weird once it gets steep.
Love the natural real time style. Looks amazing too
Agree with Dario on the rotated forward bars a bit. Good video, good content
That was a cool idea for the show. It would be fun to try the same with my friends.
Transition Spire is such a great bike that cool music starts with it 10:25 😎
Maybe there's a correlation between forks too hard and bars rolled too far forward?
I reckon Henry could improve his setup by rolling his bars back more, softening the forks a touch, and maintaining the same bar height by adding a 5mm spacer under the stem.
Like Dario said, i used to run my bars rolled forward until better riders ridiculed and taunted me. Rolling your bars back helps to lower your CofG so is better. Obvs.
My personal experience does say that having the bars forward is a mistake, you get a lot more feel from the front wheel with the bars straight up or slightly going back, although i didn't notice if it affected how the fork behaves
The Ohlins 38 doesn’t look overly stiff to me. It looks about right. I also rolled my OneUp bars forward. I don’t like bars that bend down. The bend should be pointed towards your shoulders.
What dropper is on the fuel?
The Spire does look very handsome- for a test mule, looks like a show piece. Dario's art work would look good on a complete frame wrap. Kaz' Trek with the Cane Creek progressive spring, would be good to have other white color bits on the bike.
Pure gold content!
Curious about the bar roll ... are you guys trying to add reach, if that is the case why not a longer stem? that's the one thing that sounded odd on this interesting exercise.
That spire is gorgeous 🫶
Dario keeps looking around like somebody is pointing a gun at him off camera
9:27 - Lucky Rays!
I didn't know Quinney had a Transition Spire; he should mention it more often.
It's interesting how there's no "perfect" setup, everyone is physically different and ride different, so what is perfect for yourself may not be right for the next person.
I have my bars rolled forward and I am a bit ocd in setting up my bars and controls so that they are exactly the same left and right side (I use a tape measure to ensure everything is dimensionally exact).
I tried to ride a friend's bike, but because of his bar roll and his controls were positioned so differently than my bike, I almost crashed because I couldn't stop. I ride with my hands all the way to the ends of my grips with my brake levers set inward to where I can only get one finger on. My friend's brake levers were so far outward, that when I went to squeeze, the lever hit my middle finger and I couldn't get full stopping power. Resulting in me riding into the brush to stop on a downhill section. I actually thought at first that his brakes had cease to work, talk about panicking. 😅
Would love to ride the spire. Just to try Ohlins lol
Loving your channel but would love to know how you came up with those choices
Am a Yeti fan from the late 90s.
Have had one. Own a 2007 carbon fibre Ibis Mojo with all the lightweight bits to boot and still going in 2023!
As the Ridley never cut it with me I stick with what I know.
I also have an Ellsworth Epiphany and a Titanium Moots Mountaineer XC trail bike which just won’t die!
Now I’d like to see some classics stuff and component chit chat when you guys are not putting the fun and wind between your legs!
Dario is just an awesome real life example of doing things as I would do 😅😅 (GPS where it does not break, never measures sag)
I’m interested what you have to say about those Hunt wheels on your spire. I’m debating whether to go for the XC or Enduro version for my Spark 900 which I ride quite hard
They have a trail that’s In between. I put the XC on my hardtail “grountain” bike and got some trails for my… trail bike. Haven’t ridden with the trail set yet but been very happy with the XC all last season.
can you tell more about the mazza tires. tried them onece and loved the feel in the mud and on trails but they drifted in hardpack flatcorners like crazy. predictable and safe but surprisingly early
Full floating rotors have been a thing on motorcycles for decades. Cool mod. 😂
So from you tube I get the impression that there are only downhill grades out west but how did these bikes handle climbing? Any nitpicks there? Fugly yeti for me please.
Where’s that yellow and black mudguard from?
Fun video, I really enjoyed it.
I always had a hunch that henry was a genius then he said he rides with his bars rolled forward and i knew for sure.
Disappointed not to see some basket case down country bike from Levy not featured.
SPIRE ! Also, this is a great video concept!
I like a lot of upsweep on my bars. It just seems to interface with my hands better, but when that is combined with a lot of backsweep, like with the PNW bar I'm currently running, the bars look horrendously rolled forward just in a neutral position to achieve the 5 degree upsweep. A bar with much less backsweep but the same upsweep, like the renthal bars, will look much more "correct" when rolled to the same upsweep position. The PNW feel great, I think I prefer them, but the way the bends work looks very awkward.
You all have some interesting tyre setups as well, def keen to hear each others thoughts on those too! che che!
Having tried a lot of other people’s bikes I’ve encountered some objectively bad setups. One of my friends runs his levers tilted down at 45 degrees, I couldn’t reach them at that angle. My other buddy runs his rebound fully closed in the rear, feels about as dead as you’d expect but he somehow boosts off it.
Im curious what is a soft and traction focused setup psi and clickers on Darios 38, at his weight. All of fox standard setup recomendations seem so stiff and fast these days.
Henry has the new phrase for the day = "meat shield" 😆Kaz wasn't riding the Trek on Saturday when I saw him..... 🤔🤫😁
He's on something else every day from what I've seen!
I’m also team forward roll on bars haha.
I had bolts back out on my HS2 rotor that I swore were torqued… hmm
Mullet FTW 🤘
I love the “burnt” bars
Could you guys give me some tips please.
My wrists start to hurt after 30 mins of rising my new Orbea Occam. Any ideas what I could do to fix this.
I bought the bike during pandemic and set it up myself.
Thanx in advance
Many factors go into that. Bar height/roll, grip thickness, brake lever positioning, fork tuning, etc.
I’d start with lever position tho and make sure your wrist is straight when you’re in the “attack” position with your finger on the brakes
@@Slvrx7 thanx for the advice. I’ll give it all a try 🤙
Wifi can be way gnarlier than you might think. Especially 5 G.
Hard to say which one is my favourite given that the Fuel EX and the Spire are quite differently capable. Both of them look like a great spec. Not a fan of the Yeti though, don't like Fox suspension.
Is there a specific reason why you don't like Fox? I'm asking because most of the time i see people say stuff like that they don't give a logical reason for it. I have only ever tried Fox and RockShox, and most of the times the bikes weren't mine so i treated them nicely, but i never felt any differences that couldn't be related to tunning or maintenance.
@@Ferrari255GTO I spent the last season on my enduro on a Fox 38 Performance Elite. I thus think I have good understanding of how this fork feels and what I don't like about their dampers (that work the same from Fox 34 to 40).
In comparison, the Manitou Dorado in my downhill feels like a blessing.
Wow Mike looks like Alex Honnold
All right, now all of you (yes Levy you too) get some ‘Comedic Coaching on Camera’ with Ben Cathro.
Great video idea
I only roast people who dont maintain their rig. Breaks my heart 😢
Great video!
Quality content. Run it back with 3 new people.
love this idea!
Good thing levy wasnt there. the grim donut would have been too much of a step in to the future.
I’ve rolled my bars forward until my palms naturally make full contact. They’re pretty forward but my hands and arms last forever now
I get an annoying sound in my headset on my fuel ex too. My only complaint on that bike.
I feel like that is a trek wide problem. I have similar issues on my slash, and tons of others do as well in the forums. My buddy's new fuel ex also has the issue
I also have the new fuel ex and the headset is making cracking noises
best reviews ever..ish
It went together easily in less than an hour. ua-cam.com/users/postUgkxHL1v1R3NE5x4KiYfyt8dnQmyNYz7qi5L Make sure the front fork is forward or the pedals will hit the front tire. Tires are both a little soft so it needs air before I ride it. The rear wheel didn't come with a clamp regular bolts hold it on. The front had the clamp. No scratches out of box. Rims are a little off with a slight wobble. They could have spent more time with the spoke tool fixing the run out. So far out of the box I'm happy with it. I did replace the pedals with a nice aftermarket set. After riding it a bit my A$$ is a bit sore so I ordered another seat. Overall I'm nearly 60 and didn't ride a bike in 30 years. I like my new 29" Schwinn. It will be used for casual rides with my friend.
Is Kaz's upcoming "weirdness" perhaps the new Push inverted fork?
Hi Guys, great content, made me laugh and learnt a lot as well. I'm 5' 11" and you didn't mention what sizes the bikes were. I'd be interested as I'm close to your heights.
Off the top of my head, they usually ride large-sized bikes.
You guys are riding big whips these days. Even the 'trail bike' is coiled and over-forked. Do you think Fraser Valley BC trails for example warrant that burly of a bike or is a regular trail bike enough for the tech rugged blue trails here?
I have a bike from 2005 that’s completely stock with all the original parts 😂
Still wanting to know what happened to Mike Levy?
Shorter legs help to lower your CofG too.
Henry 😎
Henry has the bike is want of the 3, but kaz's trek is a close second place.
in terms of bar roll, aaron gwin made a video out of it. most ppl these days roll there bar way more forwarded than they should
Very interesting video, but man oh man, you can tell Dario doesn't like to do any real "flat/rolling" pedaling, not with the angle of that saddle - my arms and shoulders would be so sore if I rode that.
Seems like Kaz is shredding steeper stuf, hence the setup and issues with parts.
Dario's stem looks fuckin sick
Where is Levy these days?
I'm surprised they are all on sram brakes and axs. Axs is what it is, but there are lots of interesting quality brake options, basically all of which are better than Sram
Beautiful men in bike it's ferocious have that bike👏👌💚🔥🔥🇵🇭
So from what I've understood. My bike is the best.
I think people that have their gps on the stem should be taken to the psyche ward
that fuel is so nice... wow
Just goes to show that us Brits are just better at setting up a bike!
Can you guys just frickin talk about your bikes for hours? Thanks 😄 - Sincerely a biker dad who never had time to ride.
Bikes need color. Lifes too short to ride bland black bikes
Last car was all black. New car is all black. 3 out of four bikes are black, and I'll be getting rid of that non black bike soon.
Ed Pratt's come a long way since unicycling around the world...
Its not "how bad can they be?" But rather "how can they be bad?"
Spire is so cool
You guys didn't talk about components at all, spent most of the time talking about bar roll and how far out the bite point on the brakes are.
I feel like Henry held back a little, hopefully get a little more brilliant criticism next time. 😂