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Top 50 Best Melee Players of ALL-TIME, #50-1 Showcase!
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- Опубліковано 13 сер 2024
- With Melee getting a new Top Players of All-Time list, I decided to see how the rankings went for the players in the Top #50-1!
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Hugs talking about himself in the 3rd person gets me LOL. "I know a lot about this player." "He beat chillindude in his first ever match with him, and that's just the start of this guy's career"
I totally agree with those old-school players being ranked WAY too high. M2K should have been 4th, leffen 5th, pp 6th. Ken could still be top 10 but like, M2K being top 5 for over a decade beats ken imo.
@PowerNO Grief how long will it take for leffen to be over ken?
Leffen has been top 4 since 2015 top 6 since 2014.
He has 3 s tier wins.
Ken was the best player in the world for 2 year's when there were like 200 competitive players.
@PowerNO Grief how is it in question if leffen is top level currently
And you should form your opinions instead of just typing “ what mango said”
@PowerNO Grief captainjack was the best player in the world 2004.
Nobody knows about 2003
I'd say ken was the best in the world 2005 and 2006.
Captainjack was 30 something and ken was 4th.
Ken was getting bad results at locals in 2014 when leffen was top top 10 proving that he doesn't stand a chance in the modern era.
@PowerNO Grief what is top level to you? Only the top 10 players in the world? Out of however many play melee?
11th best player rn is not a top player?
@PowerNO Grief are you an old school player?
"S2J was perennially top 25, then perennially top 15, then perennially top 10, then perennially top 5." Hugo, I hate to break it to you, but I don't think you know what the word "perennial" means.
Perennial improver
was looking for this one lmao
I mean top 5 is within the top 25, so technically he was perennially top 25
silentwolf put out a video a couple years back talking about how he'd pretty much fixed his hand issues, but he wanted to focus on speedrunning and didn't have any plans to return to melee at that time. Assuming his hand issues haven't come back since then, there is still a possibility of him coming back to the game sometime if he finds the motivation.
WAIT, a Top 100 Skill List actually sounds like a hilarious video idea.
gonna have to bust out the google sheets for this one
A chess-like title for elite Melee players actually sounds dope, and it'd be cool to figure out where the "godgamer" threshold is.
Top 8 at Genesis.
we would need some form of rating, but since melee is non transitive (fox beats sheik beats marth beats fox) stuff like ELO and glicko would not work
Incorrect about Mango being #2 whenever Armada was 1 since Hbox was often 2 behind him. But would be interesting if there’s any vids really diving into what the tournament result breakdown is between Armada Mango.
I think its kinda weird to have Ken over m2k and leff because of his peaks but then have mango over armada for longevity
Not that I don't think mangos the goat but its just inconsistent
I think the reasoning is not only longevity. Mang0 has the peaks as well, he has the longevity, and he has the recency. Mang0 has peaked and has had arguments for #1 in the world in every era he's been in. I think Armada ONLY has peak over Mang0, but man0 has everything else over Armada.
@@Supertaldo916 that might take leffen out of the argument for top 5 but m2k also has peaks and longevity where Ken only has peaks and pretty bad longevity. So even if you look at it that way its still inconsistent lol
The thing is, I don't think m2k or leff were ever the best in the world for a significant period of time. Like you can literally just make the top spots filled with people who were the best in the world for a significant portion of time for at some point and it would be justified
@@harpot6782007-2009 M2K???
I disagree with Hugs on Wizzy’s achievement being the best smash achievement. Mew2king was the best At two smash games twice (2008 Melee and Brawl, and again in 2013 Project M and Brawl). After he lost in Genesis 2 about hours later M2K won Genesis 2 in Brawl in the same day.Mew2king is unquestionably the most dominant smash player by being the most Successful in Smash in various games rather than just one specific game while being top 6 in melee for 15 years.
Not to mention Sm4sh even, Hugs said it wasn't as good, which is true. But iirc the last ranking of Sm4sh M2k was either top 15 or top 20 having so many strong wins and placements. M2K is hands down the best overall smasher of all time. Definitely deserves that spot over Ken too
@percival It’s actually hard to say for some people because M2K apparently was ranked in #1 in 2008 because he generated more points than Mango. Mango has also said that M2K was #1 in 2008
This is Melee stfu
@@MJVanD I was just making a rebuttal towards hugs claim regarding Wizzrobe that wasn’t melee good sir
@@adamquenano8563 I barely watched the video, sorry man. All I saw was PM and Brawl results, which shouldn't matter in this case.
Love to see Wizzy already being the greatest Falcon of all-time and you know he's only reaching higher⭐️
But has Wizzy ever faced B0nd?
@@BoredImagination His matched against Wizzyfan don't count because of nerves.
Once Wizzrod gets bonded he will retire for bond is eternal
Armada should’ve been first. #1 in 2011-2012, first half of 2013, 2015-2016, first half of 2017 and wouldve been #1 in 2018 miom rankings if he didn’t retire before the year fully finished. Also was #2 ranked in 2009, 2013, 2017-2018. Never lost to someone outside of top 6 for 8 years. He was also mangos and hbox’s kyrptonite before he retired. Had a winning record vs everyone. Basically was top 2 for 10 years straight as well 2009-2018 Lmaoo literally goat 🐐 shit.
i wouldnt say he was a kryptonite to hbox but he and leffen were the only 2 to contest him
Mango won majors before Armada and after Armada and DURING Armada. Thats why hes the GOAT.
Armada retired because he was scared of losing.
Since it’s the greatest of all time and not the best of all time, it’s so interesting to see where people put oldschool players like Ken and Azen. Just like a Pele or Maradona, they were undisputed in their era, but if they played today they would be throughly outclassed. How far should we acknowledge their accomplishment in the context of the time? It’s so subjective and cool to think about. I’d probably rate the old school players a bit lower than this list, but that’s just from my limited casual viewer perspective
I completely understand weighting a player's dominance in their own era to make things more fair for old-school players, but it just seems absurd to weigh the early days AS heavily as they did in this list. The "majors" back then were the size of some locals now, and the meta was so under-developed, it's just tough to justify. I think Ken should probably be 10, Azen 12, and Isai maybe high teens or low 20s? Being consistently top 10 for 8+ years post 2010 is so much harder than being top 3 for half that time pre-2008. If it wasn't for the Doc I think the OGs would probably be placed a lot lower.
38:00 I love that we're still talking about the hugs diss track 5 years later lol, it makes me very happy
I’ve been waiting for this! Didn’t even wanna know the list w/o this analysis.
The skill seeding vs results seeding is hilarious 😂
how can people say "oh yeah, he was one of the best for three years, but then he didnt really play for the next decade" and think that means that person is one of the best of ALL time. like, sure, best of an era, but this is the ALL TIME list. you almost by definition have to have been good in MULTIPLE eras.
1 Mang0 (finally surpassing Armada with last years results)
2 Armada
3 Hbox (whenever he wins a supermajor/gets ranked top 3 again I think he goes above Armada)
4 Mew2King of course
5 Leffen
6 PPMD (did it in a more challenging era + had longevity comparable to that of Ken, with less dominant fashion but again, more challenging era)
7 KEN (one of those days he'll be out of top 10 guys)
8 Zain (dominance in the most challenging era so far until Mang0's recent performance, less longevity than all above and some below him but still)
9 Plup (of course Plup)
10 ChuDat (truly passing the test of time, winning a major in both 2005 and 2017, being a threat for top players all this time)
11 Axe
12 Wizzrobe
13 SFAT (all 11-13 are debatable)
15 Azen (doing great for a short period of time)
14 S2J (always doing good/very good AND doing great for a short period of time in a more challenging era)
I agree with this more a lot more than pgstats
Good list. I'd bump ken down to like 12th, remove azen entirely, and pop s2j up to 10th in front of chu
@@FlamingZelda3 no that’s terrible?
Ken and Armada are the only players with real reigns. I think u rank leffen way too high on ur list. Other people in comments saying put Ken down in 12th. Like how?! They obv were not around in that era, why have an opinion on it then?
I think you’re one of the most qualified for this
We as a community need to get over the doc nostalgia. The further we get from the release of the doc the more obvious it is the game has evolved solo much and gotten more difficult. I don't think anyone pre 2008 should even be considered above top 15 at this point
If the only time period that you value is post-documentary, Hbox is literally the GOAT. No.1 Rank in SSBM rank and MPGR: mang0: 2013, 2014. Armada: 2015, 2016. Hbox: 2017, 2018, 2019. The Smash Brothers documentary was released in 2013, and everything before then should be disregarded.
@@harpot678 documentary doesn't really cover brawl era except for a little bit about mango and hbox during 2012 so the brawl era shouldn't be disregarded. The thing with the mlg era (2002-2006) is not anyone that dominated during this period ever did anything since on melee (isai is still a great 64 player) and the only one left were the challenger of the best (hugs, chillin, mew2king who started his own era, chudat who really was a top player at the time) while top player during the brawl era were the top players for almost every other eras of the game except maybe the very recent one. (and even then mango still arguably top 2 , Hungrybox not as dominant as before the pandemic but still strong, axe maybe top 10 this year ...)
Take a shot every time Hugo says "perennial"
The year is 20🥕🥕. Zain has fallen. Mango has fallen. Leffen has visa issues or he would compete. There is only one player on the top. Sfat has won.
1:01:40 Did you mean it the other way around? Armada's had years at number 1 where Mango was as low as 4th, but Armada was top 2 in the world every year of his career.
hugs gonna have to redo this whole video soon with how melee has been moving and the rate these players have been evolving their game/claiming titles
I enjoyed this video, but does anyone else notice how Hugs says that 80% of the players in the top 50 got robbed and should be higher? How does that work when there are only 5-10 players that should be placed lower.
Ken was terrified to play M2K when he came into the scene even though he didn't say it coming from the doc. Seeing Ken placed over M2K is complete cringe
I enjoy hearing melee stories, great vid
Yes Azen is ranked to high but I bet you didn’t know that Azen was the last non God to win a major tournament before Leffen in 2015.
Ken over M2k is the most egregious of the choices
Nah
Ken top 10 is a MAJOR L imo. People really highly overvalue being good in 2005 lmao. I think being solidly (not even dominating) 1st for 2 years in the modern era is worth more than dominating for 2 years in the game's infancy. Obviously Ken dominated a few years but you can extrapolate.
@@yScribblezHD Without Ken, we wouldn't be here. We can't just look at the past through the lens of the present. Ken was bonkers and paved the way for so much.
Ken played a big part of it but without a lot of other people, we wouldn't be here. I will ofc credit Ken for being 1st for as long as he did up until late 2007 while lacking resources because smash resources, guides and mentoring is definitely very limited at that time. Still, you can't really justify Ken over M2K. M2K definitely had the innovation with expansive knowledge on the game, was 1st for a few years and guess what, he was 1st in Melee and Brawl in 2008 at the same time. M2K's longevity far surpasses Ken, Ken have one of the highest peaks but M2K is still pretty close. Even if we disregard all the works and data he provided on Melee's intricacies,
M2K is Top 5 for 11 years, 1st in 2007 and 2008
Ken is Top 5 for 5 years, 1st in 2003 to 2006
@@Dysphoros You don't know what you're talking about. Ken won more majors in 3 years than m2k did in 12.
purposely didn't look it up because I wanted to see this feature motion picture
Take a shot every time Hugo says perennial
I don't think it would be too hard to create some form of Melee title. Maybe ranking in just one linear list is just the wrong approach. After all, there's no sense of "gap". We're trying too hard to quantify something that can't be scored in a way everyone will agree with.
The fact that Armada and Mango are so close in the rankings that it was decided by a single point, I think that proves that there is no single GOAT after all. There are several. That's why we even came up with the term "the 5 gods", because there just isn't an undisputed best.
The main problem with adopting titles, however is that we get called pretentious by other communities. I say worth, with 20 years under our belt we've earned the right to be pretentious
The gods are all gods, lffn is god slayer, Ken is king of smash. Thats all the titles we need imo what else do we need? or maybe I am not understanding "melee tittle"
This video is perennial top 10
i get choked up when these players get talked about..
plup , axe, amsa, zain, mang0, armada
Yoooo I really needed this video right now. Thanks HugS.
great vid hugo
Chudat is top 10 in my heart. Also, our top 3 players all time are so much higher than the rest, it is wild to me. Absolute gods.
I like how hugs says about 40 of the top 50 should've been ranked higher. Like where are you gonna put them?
peaks longevity eras yes but must consider impact and influence
players at #1 specifically no matter how short like kdj should weigh heavier than longevity/eras b/c #1 player specifically drives whole scene + meta
think about it, if sfat was missing from melee story, story would feel very similar
if in alt universe ken never played melee, melee story entirely different
I fully agree that PC Chris, Korean DJ, Isai, Ken, Azen are all ranked too high. Zain would utterly fuck all of them up, for any of their versions.
Ken should be 5th every one else is ranked to high tho?
that is not how all time rankings work
I feel like we lend too much to era difficulty. I know that difficulty ultimately makes consistency in an era more impressive, but these old school players could only compete in the scene that existed, there was no alternative for them. What's more, is that running with faster people makes you faster. If Ken was the best at his time (ie. there was nobody better than him to help him improve), then he could not have become better. It feels like we're ultimately judging Ken for the faults of his scene not for his own faults.
even if there is nobody better than you, there are still some areas to improve. for example, picture if the best player in the world would 4 stock everyone, but they couldn't pressure shields well. you can still practice things like that that don't always depend on the opponent.
Ken gets hit by lack of longevity not strength of era imo
Yeah, I'm with this. The Ken worship is like saying George Mikan is your GOAT. Nobody says it. Everyone picks Jordan/Lebron/Kareem, a player that dominated an era of the game that was developed and tough. And, the disparity is even WIDER in something like Melee, where the growth is allowed to be exponential because there isn't a cap on how many people can enter an EVO or a Genesis. Melee went from like a several hundred player nation-wide community to a multi-thousand person international scene.
Ken is more like the bill russel of of the game. The first player to win a shit ton of majors in a 4 year stretch.
I do think he's ranked too high but I would still place him around 8 to 10 range.
My list would pretty much be:
1-6 The Five gods plus leffen (leffen above ppmd)
7-10 Axe, s2j, wizzrobe, sfat in no particular order
11-20 All the badasses who've been whooping the game since 2011ish (plup, westballz, and friends)
21-50 Big name sidekicks (luigi players, ganon players, ect.)
51-100 pretty much everyone of note who weren't big enough to make top 50
101 Chillindude
yeahp, that’s my list too, and i think generally what’s in everyone’s head: 3 gods, 1 devil, zain + ppmd, axe / pulp / amsa / wizzy / sfat unordered bracket luck. After that it’s the main stays.
so u were not around in the classic era of melee
@@MRkriegs Coming back a year later I don't agree with my old list. There seems to have been something to bias me away from classical/golden era melee.
But yes, I began watching melee in 2014. (which actually makes this list really embarrassing.)
@@FlamingZelda3 LOL you can tell. No harm no foul. 😁
I’m honored to be in the presence of god gamer hugs
35 minutes in and i havent hear him say that
The skill ranking part kills me, I can’t believe it was like that lmaooo
Not gonna lie Zain at 9 is outrageous. To put him above Plup? No. In no world. Maybe in a few years, but right now? In what world! Outrageous!
Zain and leffen paid off some judges to get ranked so high.
Why is no one talking about dashizwiz not being ranked?
Apparently he did bad things an the past so they didn’t put him an the list he has change tho
its interesting how culturally diverse the top melee list is, just the top 10 has: costa rica, sweden, argentina, chinese, german, palestine, scotland
Who in the top ten is German and Scottish?
Okay this list is insane. There’s no way in hell Mango is ranked above Armada and HBox. Just look at their win records from their time playing. During the god era and even during the modern one, HBox won 9 more majors than Mango with 28 between 2008 and 2018 and is still winning more than him today with 6 major wins since 2019 started to mango’s 3. Armada is a whole other story. From 2008-2018, Armada won 18 majors to Mango’s 19 all while entering less tournaments, and he never had a bad tournament. Armada was insanely consistent for his entire career and spent more time at the top than Mango did. The argument here should be HBox vs Armada for #1. Mango isn’t even in the discussion.
This was just marketing at this point
it’s just bias prime hbox clears mango yes mango beat hbox 90 percent of the time before 2015 but hbox wasn’t that great at the time their was a period where mango ghosted for a year of tournaments
I still can't believe hugo charged mang 25 bucks for a ride from mike haze's house. he was stuck there a whole week!
There should be a melee hall of fame
I don't think that it makes sense to look at the past through the lens of the present. Yes, Ken left before an era that would have challenged him, but the same could be said of Armada. Does that mean that Armada should be rated lower? Absolutely not! Legacy is extremely important. Being inactive should not disqualify a player from being ranked highly. Similarly, being active shouldn't bump you up the list.
Respect the legacy, respect the eras of dominance.
I think HBox is the goat but he just had different life priorities. This honestly I think happens a lot like Ken or whoever who reached the top and just said "yeah I don't have that drive anymore" I get it. What's the point of climbing Mt. Everest and than sitting there for 10 years and kicking anyone else who climbs that high in the face. So to me HBox, Armada, Ken I have mores respect that they hit the top and started looking at other life journeys and not just the summit they already reached.
Zain was on Winners Side GF on that three 2nd placings at supermajors... T.T
Every european on the list except maybe zgetto is underrated imo
Kindoff annoying european tourney results and legacies aren't taken seriously for this and only seem to care about US tourneys
only one underrated is ice imo everyone else is accurate.
You havent played against #24
Plup over zain all time
Change my mind
Plup’s had far more longevity and successes I feel
And they aren’t even counting online tournaments
Maybe after a few years zain could but currently no way zain is over
I think they are close but I would count rollback online which would give it to Zain. Otherwise you could go either way.
agree with your points. fyi they dont call each other grandmaster in chess.
oooooo, THIS IS THE PERFECT CONTENT for you dawg
I just feel like Hugs is missing the point of the list. The list is ranking greatness, and eras aren’t really a factor in that. It doesn’t matter when he played, Ken was the best player in the world for 3 straight years, and it’s absurd to put anyone without a period as world number 1 above him. I certainly don’t think he’s number 4 due to how short his career is, but outside the top 10 is just a bad take. It’s hard to make it past top 15 without major wins, and I think that’s fine. Sfat is amazing, but he’s never had a breakthrough, and that has to be held against him in this conversation.
People have been trying to tell Hugs this exact point for like 5 years and he still doesn't get it
I agree, I also believe the list wanted to show how many great players have shaped melee over the past 20 years. I think it is beautiful to shoutout these old-school players because it shows how special the game is. Melee had so many eras and they all deserve some highlights on the list, at least to show how competitive melee has been a obsessive thing for 20 fucking years!
PS: I also feel like we don't give enough shout-out to old-school players for actually discovering everything in a party game :). It's way easier to get good when you can easily learn what's optimal!
No. Ken would never have even taken a game off of any of the modern top 5 players. The old era is ridiculously overrated.
Eras are definitely a factor since how high zain is on the list
@@evadekiryu5060 not really, Zain has 2 supermajor wins already not even counting online. I still think he was a little high, but you can’t put someone with 2 majors more than a couple spots down from where he is.
Nice one old man hugs
Anyone who thinks mang0 is above Armada is clearly smoking crack. Mang0 had more than 400-500days without winning a tournament while attending multiple a month. Armada was consistently dominant and had to come from Sweden, stay in the US and when he went back, didn’t have training partners or good tournaments locally, had to keep going back and forth.
If COVID and Ultimate didn’t happen I don’t think Hungrybox falls off and he’s easily number 2 all time possibly number 1 if he kept dominating til now. Think PPMD should be above m2k and Leffen around there, I think all those guys are equal just like mango hbox and armada are equal. You guys act like mango winning summit is like winning the 20tournamenfs that didn’t take place before that because of Covid canceling them all. It feels you guys are weighing it like that.
You’re trippin
Mango won before, during and after Armada.
@@SoppyBiscuityeah this guy is just saying words that are wrong tbh. Like PP definitely had a higher peak than M2K but thinking M2Ks far longer legacy doesn’t make up for that is a fools erand. If PP was able to be kept around longer he probably would be significantly up there, maybe even way up there (like higher than even hungrybox) but that’s not what we got and that matters. I agree it’s unfortunate, in fact all I think of when I think of PP retiring is how much of an unfair tragedy it is that that all happened to him, but still.
Hugs put like 30 people in Top 10
Armada at #2 is the most insane thing i have ever seen, people are way too biased
Uhh instead of first?
@@shady8045yes are you kidding someone who watches melee mango hasn’t been the best player since 2014 bruh hbox dominated 2017 2018 2019 hbox won majors consistently while mango had a period of not winning anything the real goat is armade and hbox second mango third m2k th 5th ken 6th leffen if leffen took melee seriously again he’s takes over ken
@@captainfalconmain6576 I asked that way because tbh its debatable enough to not be "the most bias thing you have ever seen" but at the same time any lower than 2 would honestly be egregious, hence the confusion on both ends.
God Gamer or Melee Grand Master, which one sounds better?
@14:56 mEU2king
Ken being 4th is just not right. And also armada is 1 for me.
Nice fade
39:46
Yeah, SFAT deserves much better. At one point in time Shroomed, KirbyKaze, Fly Amanita, Hax, Westballz were so good they were called gatekeepers, because just under the 5 gods status... SFAT was always the second gatekeeper.
And then he stayed in this position after 2015, just outside of gods+Leffen, and then outside of top6 with Plup's rise.
In the most modern era, he's still there.
At this very moment, when I think best of the best, there are the usual suspects: Mang0, Zain, Plup, Leffen, iBDW, Wizzrobe, Hbox. And then gatekeepers like SFAT, S2J, Axe and aMSa.
SFAT deserves top 15, no question
Sfat is over isai definitely not azen
I put sfat 15th
well… hugs86 is MY #1
"perennial"
Reading CrimsonBlurs comments in twitch chat gave me brain damage.
Nice 👍🏾
Top 50: Melee Grand Masters
Top 10: Melee Gods
Top 1: Melee GOAT
Ibdw and kdj are definitely too high.
You're high thinking sfat over ken, who ran an era.
Ikr
wizzy top 3 rn
Lucky shoulda been top 10 easy.
I still think of him as a top 10 player, obvs he's not quite there still but goddamn
has zain beat axe? isnt his record like 1-20ish
Zain is now up 3-1 an sets this year😂 and he lost to kodrein now too
Putting Ken above Plup is a joke tbh. I respect the past but Plup's results in the hardest melee meta ever are better than Ken dominating in the easiest meta. Chudat should be above Ken too tbh
Ken over plup makes sense ?
I heard darkrain lost to snex in a tournament.
manu wasn't the 6th best player, he was the best 6th player haha
Plup over Zain. M2K over Ken.
Armada should have been over mang0
Where’s hanky panky? Where’s Aklo?
Aklo is new school so it be weird to rank him an all time this year his gonna be his first time being ranked at all probably but the thing he needs to start travel
Where’s Mitchell Tang, the greatest player in the world?
Wobbles way too low with a 2nd at evo and 4th at battle of the five gods
Bro Ken didn’t have any resources at all to become the undisputed nr. 1 in the world, «harder era» doesnt matter in terms off in game technique, its basically all about rising above the rest of the field. Ken did what armada and mango basically couldnt do. Stay the nr 1 for 4 years.
yeah but it's easier if that field is much smaller
Mew2king=GOAT of Smash
Mango=GOAT of Melee
No. Mew2king has never been the #1 of any of the most competitive smash games, smash 4, melee and ultimate.
@@joseph_kenyon Mew2king was ranked twice in 2 smash games at different times(in 2008 he was the best in melee and Brawl and in 2013 he was #3 in melee,#1 in Brawl and PM) and made the most successful and broken character in all of Smash Brawl MetaKnight.When he was #1 in 07 by winning 3 majors and discovered frame data that forever changed Smash and in 08 for having higher placements aside from Pound 3. Even in all games and had a presence in minus 64 and Ultimate.that further extended his legacy while being top 6 in melee for 15 years.
Plus he coached the best players ever in smash 4 and ultimate + wizzrobe and armada. Also has the highest number of tournament wins all of E-sports
#justiceforchu
I disagree with Zain over Plup.
Rankings based off "Skill"
#1. M2K (duh)
#2. Leffen
#3. Hax$
#4. Westballz
#5. Sfat
#6 Isai
#7 IBDW
#8 Plup
#9 Ben
#10 PPMD
#11 Armada
#12 Mang0
(Someone else can figure out how to fit in Amsa, Axe, & wizzrobe this is just a joke list)
#24 is ranked too high
It’s the old school era that carries his ranking lol?
Without the doc no one would remember ken
Ever heard of the Ken Combo
That is blatantly false. I knew of Ken long before the doc.
Every Marth from 2008-2015 was compared to Ken. Mew2King was straightup called "the New Ken." The doc didn't invent Ken's fame; it depicted it.
Johny was robbed
1
This list wasn't even that good