What Neil deGrasse Tyson Gets Wrong About God (and Atheism)
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- Опубліковано 10 лип 2024
- In this episode, Trent engages astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson’s arguments against God as well as his critiques of atheism.
Support this podcast: trenthornpodcast.com
00:00 Intro
02:06 Tyson on Atheism
04:36 God of the Gaps
07:13 Which god?
11:10 Lack of Evidence
16:02 Conclusion - Розваги
Best quote I’ve seen on NDT is they he’s the kind of guy that wakes you up to tell you that he’s going to sleep.
😂🤣😅🥰
😂🤣😅
He is definitely the biggest victim of the Dunning Krueger effect.
I really can’t get over the hubris of the modern man thinking that just because we do happen to live in our current age means that we’re fundamentally so much more advanced than everyone else who has ever lived before us, like as if our intelligence comes from our discoveries/inventions and not the other way around.
I am a music major. In his theory of harmony, Schoenberg always praised our ancestors for their insights. Tyson should do the same, but he doesn't.
What do you mean “not the other way around”
Next time you get very ill, make sure you test your theory by going to a Voodoo Doctor.
surrounded by arrogance.
@CaptainFantastic222 Intelligent people in the past made all the discoveries and inventions that we use, but we assume because we have the fruits of their intellectual labor that we're more intelligent than them, when in reality the average person today wouldn't have been able to figure out anything that we take for granted. If you don't believe me, look up PDFs of American textbooks from the 1800s. Children in the Victorian Era were taught English and Mathematics at a level thar we call "college level" today--we've dumbed down.
Categorizing God with deities is like saying space-time is your favorite superhero.
god just IS. god is “is”
Not really. How many times has the Bible attributed deific qualities to “God” only for us to eventually realize there is an actual explanation that makes sense only for religious apologists to back off and change their view of what they think “God” is. Sure, you can claim that ok, maybe we can’t observe God in any real way, but he still exists way off in some dimension that we can never reach. But you’d be hard pressed to claim he exists way over there and still say he loves us, intervenes in our life, etc
@@Dutchbrother07 actually, never
@@rothgang might wanna read your Bible, specifically the Old Testament. Lot of stuff in there that isn’t possible that people used to believe
@@Dutchbrother07 I don't think your premise or terms are defined quite adequately.
Trent Horn is truly a treasure to us. This dude is wise and knowledgeable. He's a massive credit to Christianity!!
You’re also a treasure to me as you are to God, and thank you for your stance against the fake God of the Quran and false prophet Muhammad.
So true!
@@audioprowess9208 Thank you sir
Hey I see you around a lot in David Woods videos and CP and Sam’s videos. Without lies…. Islam dies.
@@audioprowess9208 both worship YHWH
Tyson "I don't call myself an Atheist because Atheists do things that I don't do."
Funny, because agnostics do things that he doesn't do either, like say "maybe God exists," "I don't know" or "there's good evidence for the existence of God, but there's also good evidence against the existence of God."
It’s a silly argument, but I do have to agree with his other proposition that “atheist” isn’t a really a coherent category. And atheists routinely hide behind that proposition, thinking it’s a strength: “I’m not making a positive claim, so I don’t need to prove anything”. But that’s nothing to celebrate, it is easy to point problems, much harder to build something new that doesn’t feature problems. A lot of them will hide behind “humanism”, which is itself ill-defined and incredibly shallow, and it’s very telling they identify with the label “atheist” primarily and hide behind the bailey of “humanism” when confronted.
I dislike NDT but I’m with him on this one. It’s just not the argument he thinks it is.
@@michaelsokolnicki7028 As a humanist, it is not that hard.
If you have any questions of confusion about what humanism is i can answer them for you.
The most common confusion is that christianity is a complete worldview it has an answer for every question.
Atheism only answer 1 part of a worldview (the part about religion/gods).
Humansism is similar in that way as humanism only answers moral and ethical parts.
Lots of christians find that hard to understand. When they think atheism they picture a full worldview (usually some woke leftist thing).
But this is not how that works.
@@aidanya1336 Exactly. A very good distinction to make. I think we all like to add other attributes to Atheism, but many, if not most are: A. not exclusive to Atheists, B. not shared by all Atheists. There is no Atheist doctrine to follow or glean from.
This isn't something that Atheists use as some sort of "gotcha" tactic, or something to hide behind. They literally just find the arguments for a God or Gods unconvincing. Some Atheists may also belong to other identifiable groups (Antitheists, Secular Humanists, Spiritualist, Evolutionists, heck even Flat Earthers!) some may not.
What should really annoy you @michaelsokolnicki7028, are Agnostics like me! I make no assertions, other than dispute the claims of the Bible and to question the attributes given to the God of Abraham that conflict with the actions depicted by this God.
What is the evidence for god?
I'm not like other scientists vibe 😂
Terry Pratchett has a quote that I think is the perfect refutation of the logic of God of The Gaps and other arguments:
“It doesn’t stop being magic just because you understand how it works”.
In our world, it does.
That's why we call magicians now illusionist. Because we understand that what they do is trickery.
Magic is only magic as long as you believe it is. Of course, that doesn't mean this has to apply to the meaning the word can carry in a fictional world, but it certainly makes things confusing when the meaning of words differs so drastically from reality.
A better example in our world would be a miracle. Even once we understand how a miracle works, like the miracle of birth, it doesn't stop being a miracle.
Not directly related to this particular video, but just wanted to thank you, Trent, for your content and apologetics works in general. I was an atheist for years, then came to Christ two years ago; starting out in an evangelical church. Thanks in large part to your 'The Case for Catholicism', your debates with protestant apologists and your helpful videos, I am currently going through the RCIA, looking to become Catholic. God bless you 🙏
I don't want to stunt your search for the church God has for you, but before going to Catholicism, I would definitely check out well thought out videos like William Lane Craig's on why he is not Catholic. And of course, the most important, is to pray that God leads you to the correct teachings, since if you are truly open to His guidance, He will lead you to the truth.
@@mattm7798 Thanks for your response, it's really appreciated. I spent so much of the past year praying to the Lord to guide me into truth and am convinced that it's by his wisdom that I've been brought to this decision. I've never felt more love for Him and His presence has never been more tangible in my life. I genuinely thank you for your concern, brother.
William Lane Craig is a fantastic apologist and many of his arguments helped cure me of my atheism.
It might be worth noting Craig's own comments regarding Catholicism in an interview on the 'Reasonable Faith' website, under the discussion 'What about Catholicism?'. He says:
"the fact that I have some disagreements with Catholics, and therefore could not, I think, in all good conscience be a Catholic myself, isn’t to say that I regard Catholics as somehow sub-Christian or un-Christian anymore than I think Presbyterian and Episcopalians are. So we could talk if you wanted to about some of the areas where I myself cannot in good conscience affirm Catholic doctrine. But on the other hand, I do want to affirm that my fundamental goal with Reasonable Faith is to defend what C. S. Lewis called “mere Christianity” which is the Christianity that is common to all of the great branches of Christendom whether they be Catholic, Protestant, or Orthodox, or Coptic. That is my burden, is what unites us rather than what divides us."
Peace be with you, brother.
@@mattm7798he is fine, he found God in the Catholic church. You should be praying to God to guide you in the right direction!
Um, so your saying DON'T look at both sides of an argument before making a decision? If Catholicism is the true church, then it will survive the argument.
Also, I have prayed to God to guide me in the right direction...Catholicism has alot of troubling issues which are very apparent to non-Catholics.@@glennyskitchen9491
@@mattm7798Those sort of videos have been debunked by multiple Catholics on this app. They usually have the same conspiracies through and through
I lost what little respect I had for Neil when he deceptively declared on his “Cosmos” series that Giordano Bruno was a martyr for science, when in fact he was executed for countless theological heresies.
and most importantly for breaking the exile. 100% of states at the time executed people that, came back after being formally exiled
He also incited a popular revolt that killed a significant number of people, among other things. Giordano was a trouble-maker and Neil is just parroting tired old clichés instead of doing some historical studies.
Tyson is at his best when he's enjoying the sound of his own voice.
He's an intellectually lazy wannabe celebrity.
Bet you wish you were has smart has him.
@@user-ls4lx3qt3h Him being smart has nothing to do with him also being an arrogant ass. They're not mutually exclusive.
@user-ls4lx3qt3h projecting much?
@@user-ls4lx3qt3h What does that mean?
“Smug and Condescending”-yep, that pretty much describes Neil deGrasse Tyson!
I'd like to point out that Trent starts this video by doing what's called "Poisoning the Well". This is where he tries to pre-establish a negative view of a subject or person before the main argument by showing negative examples of that subject or person to prime a viewer to think a certain way.
It's considered a bad practice and is disappointing to say the least.
@@capcaptainmycaptain4771 The majority (50% and higher) of people who watch this channel know who Neil DeGrasse Tyson is and are aware of his recent inflammatory (to say the least) comments on sex and gender.
To repeat something well known and public and true, does not constitute poisoning the well unless there is a serious attempt by NDT to improve the way he communicates with opposition. If NDT was seriously trying to improve his manner of speech, then you'd be correct of accusing Trent of what you did. For now, it appears that you are trying to construct a wholly insufficient fig leaf for NDT.
@capcaptainmycaptain4771 This is how discourse works: state a position, present a case to substantiate it, then summarize to bring it back to the original position. Trent is very methodical and professional when he presents his cases. He didn't poison the well. You should look up that type of informal fallacy before accusing people of it willy nilly.
That said, as a tenured physicist myself, I will tell you that NGT is a laughing stock among my colleagues - and most of them are atheists. NGT has an abysmal research record, he is evasive and manipulative, and he has no business representing actual professional scientists.
@@enshala6401 What is said is literally the definition of it, go look it up.
@capcaptainmycaptain4771 Wrong. He stated a premise, namely that NGT fails to use logic properly. Then, he provided us with ample evidence of how NGT fails to use logic properly. It's not that hard to understand. >.>
Also, perhaps you should familiarize yourself with the concept of argument from fallacy - which is actually a /formal/ type of fallacy. See this is exactly why NGT is so bad for society - he is producing little tykes like yourself who use big words without understanding what they mean.
Neil is the poster child for the difference between intelligence and wisdom.
Not really, he desperately lacks both.
@@michaelcolthart4006yep
@@michaelcolthart4006 I find the guy annoying, but he's objectively smart. Not one-of-the-great-thinkers-of-our-age smart, but smart.
Post of the year bro
He's intellectually lazy and wisdom deficient.
It’s particularly painful to listen to NDT as I was exactly that sort of angry online atheist. It was only when I realised that I didn’t actually have any arguments myself, and was merely parroting what atheist celebrities said, that I decided to open my mind and actually study, and it was Summa Contra Gentiles that finally broke my armour, and “Theology for Beginners” by Frank Sheer that made me change my mind and realise “oh wait this actually makes sense”.
I’ll pray that NDT has his conversion moment. It was painful for me as it will be for him… I was known as the firey anti theist to all my friends and I had to eat humble pie. I know he can do it too.
Everyone can do it...question is whather they wana do it
It's tedious for me to watch NDT even with the sound turned off. There's something very cringey about him or his mannerisms. The thought that this guy is a respected 'scientist' makes me wonder what happened to science over the last 2 decades. Like, are we still talking about the same thing as when Niels Borh, Einstein & Werner Heisenberg were considered smart people? He seems more like a large 4 year old 'wanna-be' smart person, who has learned to mimic celebrities from talk shows.
If it is so painful to watch someone be an atheist, and you pray that people convert, I'll give you the chance to provide me (an atheist) reasons to believe god exists. I'm open to any questions you may have, or any arguments you are willing to provide. You could save me, so I suppose it would definitely be worth your time. Provide good reason to believe in god, and I will listen.
@@jessec4443 I have a question for you - is your life fulfilling, as an atheist? Ever look around and wonder why some people are genuinely happy?
@@bernardokrolo2275that is in fact the question
It's very hard to take Neil deGrasse Tyson seriously as a man of science or reason. As evidenced by his recent (and very well publicised) rants in support of gender ideology, he's all too happy to suspend objectivity when it suits him.
The fact is that without God at the foundation, there is no reason for anything. Reason ceases to be a virtue and truth becomes meaningless.
His evidence to support transgender ideology is to say “We KNOW this is true now” and that’s it.
Someone needs to question NDT about how "feeling" one is the opposite gender than their chromosomes indicate, and "feeling" Pluto is a planet, or that God exists.
Tyson has NEVER been a "man of science".
-His PhD thesis (Which tend to be 100+ pages long) was 3 pages long, one of the pages containing a caricature of an Amerindian hunter. His advisors had to dissolve the committee behind the dissertation, which led to him essentially failing and leaving university.
-Don Barry, a PhD in the Astronomical Department of Cornell University, has confirmed that Tyson has NOT worked on any major publications or had gotten any important awards. There is even an astounding lack of evidence for him spending time on telescopes. His only written works include a "bizarre theory of an asteroid hitting Uranus" and very minor mentions on important works.
-According to Barry, Tyson became best buds with Bush (Yes, George Bush), who has since inserted him into most projects despite other scientists complaining about his non-existent work ethic and lack of contributions. This is where he gets his money from.
-He claimed in an autobiographical interview that he spent more time in dance and boxing classes than in the laboratory during university. He got in trouble with the school administration, then blamed everything on "racial discrimination". He only got through likely due to affirmative action, until his PhD.
-He considers philosophy, particularly metaphysics (The building blocks of science), to be meaningless. He has publicly mocked philosophers for wondering what the meaning of meaning itself is, and disregarded all of philosophy as useless.
About as capable as his white counterpart, William Nye.
Edit: This is without mentioning his Twitter, where he posts such marvelous statements as "Almost all armed conflict in the history of the world came about because opposing sides believed different things to be true." & "In a mirror, you can kiss yourself only on the lips." Truly, the Aristotle of our times.
@@memememe609 I'm not surprised but a 3 page PhD thesis..? Lol, lmao even.
@@memememe609 "According to Barry, Tyson became best buds with Bush (Yes, George Bush), who has since inserted him into most projects"
I'm not going to accept that on faith. Proof or I'm calling BS on it.
"He considers philosophy, particularly metaphysics (The building blocks on science), to be meaningless. "
And Stephen Hawking considered it Dead. So?
I stopped taking Tyson seriously on religious views when he made his comment about transgender.
He wants evidence for God but ignores the evidence of the fundamental component that makes a person a man or a woman.
The two issues are not related.
@@russell2910
What am I comparing for you to say they're not related?
@@vtaylor21 there's zero evidence for God, belief in God is based on faith. You refuse to use reason as a response to a person having no faith. That's stupid. You are mad, so you respond by being unreasonable. You tell me how that makes sense.
@@russell2910
You aren't making sense.
@@russell2910 1. There is evidence for God, as defined in Classical Theism.
2. Beliefs are impossible to be grounded on faith. Faith can be grounded on Reason, but faith can't be the ground of anything. Saying that is a misunderstanding of what faith means.
I hope the whatever podcast gives Trent the audience he deserves. I think a debate with Destiny on the existence of God ( even though Destiny isn’t educated on this subject like Trent) on the whatever podcast would be interesting or maybe Matt dillahunty. His porn debate already has like Half a million views, so people are definitely interested in listening to Trent. Trent is a great mix of a regular guy who can talk contemporary issues but also deep philosophical concepts and is always super prepared for everything. Mad respect for Trent
Trent has already debated Matt Dilahunty on the Resurrection if my memory serves me well a out 2-3 years ago, hosted by Pints With Aquinas.
It's a very interesting debate, and one where Matt Dilahunty rejected ALL historical writings because he didn't think any of them were reliable 😂
@@alisterrebelo9013 Yeah so matt dillahunty should change his argument from "You have no evidence", to "You have no proof". Proof =/ evidence.
@@AquinasBased I don't think Matt would make a distinction between the words 'evidence' or 'proof'.
His definition for either words would be words to the effect of, 'knowledge that can be verified by the conclusive exclusion of all other possibilities within a materialist framework'.
I know that's a mouthful, but that appears to me to be the way he views the world. He's an anti-thiest because he accepts immaterial things like logic, numbers, philosophy, thought etc. but when it comes to God, suddenly, nothing outside of that materialist definition is sufficient for him and then he actively attacks the idea of God.
I rember hearing a debate between Dillahunty and Trent was planned but recently fell through.
We've already had the best dillahaunty debate possible.
Matt doesn't care about arguments for God, he only cares about insulting Christian values. Therefore the only possible fair argument with Matt is one in which you force him to defend his moral values.
I like Trent, but he's not up for that
Although Neil DeGrasse Tyson is an atheist, I do love how he defends the scientific advancements the Church has made. For example, he still uses BC and AD, and has much respect for the Gregorian Calendar. He'll defend astronauts saying "Godspeed". He may not believe in God, but he will defend tradition and the truth.
I actually really like NDT. Yes hes smug, arrogant, and defintely that "actually" guy. But hes passionate about learning and makes learning fun.
Edit: I wrote this before I watched the entire video. Trent covered everything👍
Yeah I think he gets a bad rap these days.
Tbh, Christianity (especially Catholicism) does not get enough credit in the history books. Modern science itself is a product of Christianity
I find his irrelevant concessions petty and passive aggressive. So he gets to demean Christianity as ridiculous, but it's fine because he gives credit to the calendar. Pure hypocrisy on his end.
@@sharkinator7819 it is a matter of what "Christian science" is used, IMO. Young Earth Creationists make wildly absurd claims on carbon dating, crazy theories about evolution (Creation Mueseum) that goes against traditional science and is often strictly peer reviewed through Christian universities.
@@ShiniGuraiJoker that’s not what I’m referring too. Also, the Catholic Church does not teach young Earth creationism. We are allowed to believe in evolution. That’s more of a modern day evangelical thing. The church actually fostered scientific progress in the Middle Ages
TRENT STAY COOKING
I actually quite enjoy when people say “C.E.”, because we DO live in Christ’s Era.
Good one, I'll be using this for sure if challenged on the use of BC/AD.
He also bought into gender ideology, which destroys any credibility he might have had
I was gonna type this exact comment, you beat me to it.
Did it destroy his credibility in everything or just social issues?
@@cromi4194 Everything. If a scientist can't accept basic reality, what good is he?
I remember one comment he made ablut trans women in particular but not much past that. What are his reasons for accepting it?
@@paradisecityX0 hm would you doubt his credibility in astrophysics based on his views on gender?
Unfortunately I'm not really smart in any subject. And my intellectual reasoning has gotten worse due to cancer treatments in the past.
Please keep me in prayer. Thanks and God bless everyone.
God bless you John!
@@alisterrebelo9013 Thanks for your kind response. And God bless you and your family.
@@johnbrzykcy3076 I wanted to let you know that you're in my prayers and Rosary. I forgot to add that in!
Don't fear if you struggle to follow the intellectual debates etc. God is raising up mighty defenders like Trent Horn and William Albrecht (a mighty defender of our Blessed Mother) to protect the flock.
I was an athiest and experienced the intercession of Mary (my mom and dad prayed for me for years) which led Jesus to heal me twice while I was terribly sick earlier in the year. Each of these challenges are opportunities to model Christ in our lives. If he could have himself beaten, pierced, nailed, bleed for us, then I can face the rest of my life with my failing lungs with grace for Him.
God is real, Jesus is real, I'm a witness to his awesome power and love for us all. Jesus has already saved us through the sacraments. God bless you again and may he give you the good health you seek.
I think it's difficult for people who are authority figures in a certain area and are used to the attention that this receives to not view themselves as having an authoritative voice that people should be listening to.
Almost like actors
There are no authority figures in science
@@rarelycold6618 Exactly like....
Tyson is a good storyteller but I could never take him for a seriously critical thinker
@user-gs4oi1fm4l
And no one could ever take you for a seriously critical thinker.
He's not a thinker. He's a intellectually lazy and arrogant wanna-be intellectual.
Yah that's why he is an astrophysicist
@@nyakabb2472 his degree must be from a cracker-jack box. Oh wait.....we needed a black "science" rep to appease academia, the NAACP & the media.
you wouldn't be a critical thinker either if you think this "god" exists lol
It occurs to me that a non-Christian using "B.C." and "A.D." is like a non-pagan referring to days of the week named after pagan gods.
I caught Niel's video the other day. Didn't expect Trent would pick up on it, but glad its so soon.
"Otherwise we should call all faiths, evidence... but we don't" - the genius of Tyson 😂
Faith is belief without evidence! No?
@@CaptainFantastic222 No, that is blind faith. As Trent says, it means trust and that can be built up and bolstered by evidence. We cannot even do science in the first place if one does not have faith as it still rests upon presuppositions. One such is that we can use reason to observe and hypothesize about an objective world. There is no empirical evidence that can prove this true, but it is something we must take for granted as a metaphysical truth if we wish to do science in the first place.
@@CaptainFantastic222 As @jaysuero6263 states that is blind faith to believe without evidence. And it is never something that the Bible envisages. The Bible repeatedly indicates to us that we believe because of the evidence. Neil deGrasse Tyson presents very simplistic arguments in which he misrepresents the Christian faith. For such an intelligent man I think that he's not taken the time to fully understand what Christians believe and why they believe it.
@@alastaircooper953 Gotcha. Thanks for the clarification on faith
@@CaptainFantastic222no.
He said that having girls and boys bathrooms is segregation, like having black and white water fountains...🤣
Thank you Trent! Keep up the amazing coverage! God Bless you and your family!
Half in--great video, Trent!
Thank you, Trent, we watched this together as a family after dinner and it triggered some interesting reflections, especially the final remarkable statement .. how often God talks to us not only through what others say to us, but even more through what we say to others!
As John Lennox said of Richard Dawkins "I don't believe in the god you don't believe in either." Dawkins, Tyson, and others seem to think Christians use the God of the Gaps arguements, and they do not. The God of the Gaps arument applies to pagan-style gods. The god of lightning, fertility, sea... Greek gods.
Christians embrace science and say, "The more we learn about nature and reality, the more it becomes apparent that it is impossible for materialism to explain its genesis."
I really like your 2nd paragraph and I tend to agree with you. God bless...
Materialism is the best explanation tbh
What you described is the definition of an argument from ignorance…
Put simply, "we don't know, therefore we do know: God did it".
The God of the Gaps argument was originally coined by Christian and it was a warning to fellow Christians to not use God as a means for explaining ignorance.
Revert catholic here trent horn can you doo 🎉 video on Goa inquisition in India. Here in India many Goa hindu acuse st Xavier's Francis for genocide and they don't have any evidence to back there claim for the genocide can you pls make some video about it .
Thank you. This absolutely needed to be done.
It is simply true that just because someone is an expert, even a genius, in one area (science), it doesn’t automatically make them an authority in another area (theology, philosophy, etc.).
"I believe that a scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy."
-Richard Feynman
"Statements by scientists are not necessarily statements of science."
-John C. Lennox
“The trouble is that scientists in our contemporary world have such authority that any[time] a scientist makes a statement, people tend to think it’s got the authority of science behind it. We need to learn to distinguish [science and scientists].”
-John C. Lennox
How does Neil scientifically prove his wife loves him?
He measures the toxins in her brain after a conversation with him.
Wait I forgot he is an astrophysicist. Idk, he looks at the stars or something.
@@ERROR-uk9uc lol
Love this episode! Great job Counsel of Trent Team!!!
Correction: It's a rock opera. Source: my 5th grade music teacher Sr. Kathleen
Was that an "akshually..." I just made? 😁
Epic use of his master class quote to show he is the epitome of the Dunning Kruger effect.
Love your videos Trent! Thank you for what you do.
Trent's problem is that he cannot give rational explanation about any of the questions he mentioned at point 6:25.
Hey Trent, please remind people to push the bell button on your channel. I've been missing your videos because they get lost in the UA-cam subscription feed
Respect for keeping this under 5 hours long. 😅
I used to like Neil deGrasse Tyson but then I got older and realized that he's an insufferable narcissist. Also, if you look at his tweet history, the number of times he's tweeted about kissing oneself in the mirror is hilarious and disturbing. And each tweet is NOT word-for-word either, so it's not just the same tweet recycled.
I haven't started watching, yet. I'm hesitant whenever I see God and Neil deGrasse Tyson mentioned in the same space.
I have to pray for peace of mind, patience and the strength to refrain from yelling at my screen before I press play...
Sounds like you just don’t have an open mind if you get angry when you hear opposing viewpoints
Someone really needs to send this video to him. Great job as always Trent!
Really appreciate this video.
I love your citations in all videos, it helps individuals like us to grow in resource and knowledge. I especially loved your usage of Greek Philosphers, that was phenomenal
Using evil as a tool to discount God is tragic considering that has been explained ad nauseam by many many people. Evil exists because God chose to give us free will. Because without free will love would be impossible. For it to be love it has to be freely given. And with the ability to choose many will choose evil and it’s naive to think that evil only affects the perpetrators of said evil. But rather it affects everyone at all places. When Adam and Eve decided to do their own thing and we subsequently chose the same chaos and evil fills the void.
One of the double standards of atheism that always strikes me hardest is how they view the very same things in opposing terms, depending on whether God exists. All is negative if there is a God, but positive, or at least neutral or unproblematic as long as there is no God.
All tragedy magically converts to "just life as it is, that "grown-ups" who don't need a 'Magical Sky Daddy' to lean on, accept" but revert to unbearable, unforgiveable cruelty if God exists, even though God's existence implies immortality and restitution from all of our suffering [they always manage to leave that out of the equation, to intentionally make it sound so much worse].
Under the assumption that God is a myth, we should, as mature individuals, accept death as a relief from what could be a prolonged, boring or suffering existence. If your child dies, you should not need mythical feel-good beliefs to cope, but have the fortitude and realistic view of life to accept that this is how this wonderful evolutionary manifestation has played out.
However, if a Great Intelligence created us, then we must view all the very same events & conditions as the cruelty and injustice of this jealous monster who maliciously designed the Universe as a place of torment for us... and probably 'get's off 'on our suffering.....even though [by this view] mortal tragedy is only temporary, that Intelligence has created us as immortal, destined for a great transformation into a state of eternal bliss after our schooling in mortality is finished.
Such an easily interchangeable script, or narrative of existence, demonstrates a determined internal bitterness worse than anything we could accuse such a God of.
@@jameseverett4976 I don’t know of any atheist or agnostic that thinks you shouldn’t be sad if your kid dies. Everyone acknowledges that suffering exists and hurts
Great stuff Trent. Very good and very clear.
Thanks for this video. 😊
Notice how people always ask astronomers and astrophysicists their opinions on the great questions, such as the existence and nature of God. People are less likely to ask botanists or marine biologists for some reason.
I am curious. What would any scientist know about the nature of mythological deities?
Tyson discounted the ability of the human mind to understand reality through categorization (the very heart of science) in favor of the gross subjectivism of radical gender theory. I honestly wouldn't trust anything he says about the stars if there were any cultural/political importance to it.
nice point. and it's harder and harder to imagine any stance not having that (cultural/political implications)
Even a chaotic Universe needs a first cause.
That reasoning by Neil would really have impressed me in junior high
You never made it past elementary school, huh? Yep, well, it would have.
Nobody loves the sound of their own voice more than NDT
Neil is the type of guy that when you are solving a problem he doesn't know how to fix, he will simultaneously explain to you how to solve it
Pray for Neil before he gets humbled by God
Now what's your imaginary friend going to do about Neil?
@@lennoxnderitu3659 "For all who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted."
@@lennoxnderitu3659hell do more for Neil than Neil has ever done for science
@@georgerafa5041or that Neil has ever done for himself.
"I don't care about what the problem means. I can measure the problem, I can calculate the percentage of danger of the problem, I can even compare to other problems like it. But why would I care about what it means or what to do about it? That doesn't matter to me."
-NDT, probably
Great video!
awesome vid bro
Trent horn hits it out of the park again! Home run!!
Accept this whole video is an argument from ignorance 😂😅
At this point I’m just watching for Trent’s incredible segues into asking us to subscribe (don’t worry man I’m subbed)
"Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." ~Hebrews 11 Numbers fit this definition. Faith is not unfounded or unwarranted.
"Faith is believing what you know ain't so" Mark Twain
You said something: faith is trust. Mind blown. Such a simple definition.
BCE - Before Christian Era
CE - Christian Era
I have no problem with that, plus it'll drive the militant loonies crazy! 😁
I always think of it the same way. The idea of a "common" era itself is fallacious.
@@bigfootapologeticsits colonizing and a symptom of cultural imperialism
@@gavasiarobinssson5108
🤣😂🤣😂🤣
@@gavasiarobinssson5108 And that's crazy, because the people who are trying to erase history by using terms like "common era" are the people who try to use "colonizing" and "cultural imperialism" as pejoratives.
I think CE stands for Common Era and BCE Before the Common Era
I used to enjoy his lectures and topics concerning his specialty I guess. The cosmos. He's recently been saying things about transgenderism and politics that have in my opinion destroyed his scientific credibility. Nice video Trent.
Hey, Trent. New atheist subscriber here! I really like your style and I'll have a video commenting on one of your videos shortly. Would love to get your input, if you think whatever I'm saying is worth it. Keep up the good work ;)
Trent Horn
You have
A Very 🙌 Blessed 🙌 Good 🙌 Day Too!
"The stronger amongst you can be the most foolish here. Those who claim to have certainty and power and who assert themselves and who admonish others with such certainty and self-righteousness, they are the weakest amongst you. Their foolishness now has taken on destructive manifestations. Their ignorance is hidden to them. They do not know how foolish they really are."
*The New Message from God*
God sent a new message? When? My understanding is that Jesus was the last revelation
@@thebitterrootranger4405 The process of Revelation began in 1982. and continues to this day. Marshall Vian Summers is the person bringing the New Message into the world. God didn't stop speaking to humanity. Now we need God more than ever.
I'm not contesting whether or not God speaks to us before, now, or in the future. We're in accord on that, He is still speaking. But I'm confused by the concept of a 'new' message. If Jesus's words when He walked the earth were authoritative and true then, why would He need to change His message?
@@oneworldonehome
🤣
@@thebitterrootranger4405 It is not that the message has changed, it is just that it needs to be given anew in a new context. The world of today is not what the world was 2000 years ago, and great change is just beginning. I recommend exploring The New Message and its countless teachings and see for yourself what God has to say to humanity today.
I wish Trent Horn could have been on a Big Bang Theory episode !!!
Leftist script writers letting a well adjusted Christian apologist on to present an accurate view of Christianity.... sure.
What has.
This is a really well organized video. I had no idea atheistic philosophers were so close to accepting the existence of God.
Neil is hardly a philosopher.
Trent horn and frank turek should have a conversation or debate on a selected topic. Would be a tremendous discussion IMO.
My suggestion, explore why Frank Turek abandoned his Catholic upbringing for his Calvinist (though I dont have 100% proof of it) beliefs.
A movie Peter O'Toole , was in had a good quote... when science unlocks that last door they will find God behind it saying what took so long ? Well that's how I remember it anyway.
I don't think he's a "smart" scientist. There's nothing really special about what he speaks about science. Dude literally got famous because of a meme template.
Now that I know Trent scripts these out with a teleprompter, I try to over analyze his eyes lol. Still, excellent content as always sir!
This is a wonderful touch-point, clear and competent.
Niel just needs to stick to astrophysics and not make crappy twitter takes.
Thank you, Trent Horn, for using logic and reason to show that Scientism is not able to add anything to the quest for God.
What is 'scientism'?
@@Theo_Skeptomai the irrational belief that the scientific method can be used to answer philosophical questions. It's provably an untenable position.
@@tafazzi-on-discord And which segment of the population _believes_ that the scientific methodologies can answer philosophical questions?
@@Theo_Skeptomai the believers in scientism. Tyson being one of them. This video responds to Dr. Tyson, can you admit he's wrong?
@@tafazzi-on-discord Wrong about _which_ proposition?
Trent, when you only have one of a thing, as in one universe, you cannot do a probability calculation at all. You can’t demonstrate that it could be any different. Which is why your assertion that the universe is fine tune is without evidence, nor merit. It’s just an assertion. First you have to demonstrate that the universe can be fine tuned then you have to demonstrate that there is something that can twist those knobs and tune it. That is why the fine-tuning argument is nothing more than a bad argument that is nothing more than An assertion.
Under Atheism there's no Universe, and if miracoulously there is one, nothing determines what the constants are, therefore the rational assumption is that they could have been anywhere in a range of possibilities.
Recently started to get a lot of Neil deGrasse Tyson video recommendation. So it's nice to have your view on it.
Are those really arguments that Neil has for not calling himself an atheist. Those are beyond infantile
He's not like other atheists 😆
Neil is beyond infantile.
I find Tyson to be one of the most self absorbed narcissistic obnoxious people I have ever witnessed. He knows everything and doesn’t listen to anyone. I find him unbearable.
Same. I don't get his popularity, but then I don't get most of the way people think today. Everything seems to be more about virtue signaling than anything else. Any decent honest person who doesn't constantly toot his/her own horn, doesn't get far in todays world.
He’s become more obstinate the older he gets. I miss young humble Niel
loved that ending!
Thank God! I thought i was the only one who found Tyson smug and condescending. I have gotten into the habit of changing the channel when i see his face. Thank you Trent. Your ability to verbalize what i am feeling is greatly appreciated.
That’s a great point about electrons. Yeah we don’t have any way of directly observing them, but literally our entire physical understanding of the universe falls apart if they do not exist. If there are no electrons then everything we know about physics, chemistry, astronomy, geology, and many other subjects is wrong. The same argument makes a lot of sense if you swap electrons for God.
Our fundamental understanding of the inner workings of the government also fall apart if we remove lizard people from the mix
The comparison between electrons and God falters on the grounds of empirical evidence and falsifiability. Electrons, while unseen, are consistently detectable through their predictable interactions and effects, which are empirically demonstrable and integral to technologies we use every day. The existence of God, in contrast, is not similarly evidenced by repeatable empirical observation and does not offer the same predictive utility in scientific terms. If we applied the rigorous standards of science to the hypothesis of God, as we do with electrons, we would expect testable predictions and observable evidence unique to a divine being, which we do not have.
I appreciate your gentle treatment of arguments and their proponents
Trent is on fire. First Destiny, now Tyson.
To answer Tyson the name for non golfers is athletes. Just kidding 😅
😂😂
I subscribe to Mr. Tyson's channel and I've expressed the same concern You have made on this episode. It would be a great debate between you two guys on the topic of religion or faith.
The variation of topics you cover makes this channel very interesting. Keep up the good work, Mr. Trent Horn!
It would be a waste of time, Tyson is a notoriously bad conversationalist/debater. You should know this. Watch his talk with rogan.
Great video Trent! It’s amazing to me after 2020 any scientist would dare to make fun of people who believe things on faith
If Niel vanished from the internet tomorrow I don’t think anyone would complain.
I for one would yes I may not agree with Neil in some parts but I love how he’s able to show science and space to a younger crowd especially to children.
To be fair, NDT is wrong about ALOT!
Trent is so much smarter than Neil.
About theology and philosophy.
@@misterkittyandfriends1441 no he is just plain smarter, Neil may know about many scientific questions, but Trent is far smarter in just general intelligence.
@@misterkittyandfriends1441I think he is referring to Trent staying in his lane on what he knows vs Neil talking as though he is an expert on things he knows nothing about as though he has considered all aspects
*Wiser, this whole thing is intelligence vs wisdom
When a Muslim says he has faith God exists, is that trust in god (for salvation? for protection? for health?), or trust in the people who have taught him about god?
According to every Muslim I've heard from, it's all of the above.
I've always appreciatedhisbdefense of BC/AD
One second in and I love this video already. I used to be influenced by Neil deGrasse Tyson when I was agnostic over 6 years ago, and what you said in the first few seconds is literally paraphrasing the argument I thought of that finally brought me from agnosticism back to Catholicism! (My exact argument was, "everyone is a genius at one thing and an idiot at another.")
What is your reason to believe in god?
Never really understood who gave Neil deGrasse any credit for knowing anything. He’s been saying stupid things for quite a while.
How old is the earth?
@@CaptainFantastic222 13.7 billion years. Why? He invent that?
When I was 8 I thought the arguments of NDT and TJ Kirk and their ilk were quality. As a teen I started punching holes in them. As a 27 year old I find they are arguments intended to mislead 8 year olds, and are fit not for adult conversation.
its hard for me to believe that you even listened to, let alone comprehended, let alone was able to accept ANY arguments about these topics when you were 8 years old, especially since tj kirks first video came out when you were 11, and when you were 8 youtube hadnt even been started yet...but yeah sure, you watched ndt and tj kirk when you were 8....totally believable....
Can you do one about Tyson’s simulation theory? Basically the argument that we don’t have free will because we’re living in a simulation created by an external force.
Neil is not the brightest when it comes to common sense.
I sincerely believe Tyson is a scam artist. He doesn't conduct himself as a smart person at all, I don't know of any accomplishments of his in his own field and the things he believes other people will find impressive are pedestrian at best. The only way I can fathom this man actually got his degrees other than forging fakes is riding the participation trophy train all the way to the top, sliding his way onto co authoring credit for articles, etc.
You can research him and learn about his achievements..... He may not have wisdom or know philosophy well, but he knows astronomy and astrophysics and he a great science communicator. Its just that when he strays away from his expertise of astrophysics he maintains his know-it-all personality on things he doesn't know about.
@@kevinjohnson4498
"Science communicator" is one of those titles I've seen applied to other distinguished luminaries like Bill Nye. Just because these people were on TV when millennials were children, that doesn't make them intelligent.
@@Qwerty-jy9mj Bill Nye was also a good communicator of science to children, or at least he was a good host for a show about science that targeted children. He only had a BA in Mechanical Engineer, so he knew a little bit about a lot of things, which makes him very qualified for a broad children's science show.
Tyson has PhD in astrophysics and has been the Director of Hayden Planetarium for nearly 30 years, if he was a fraud then he would have ran it into the ground by now. Pluto is no longer considered a planet because of him, he stopped referring to it as a planet at the Planetarium and eventually the international community agreed and officially removed it as a planet.
@@kevinjohnson4498
So his achievements are being the face of an institution and pop science drama....
Nothing about this conveys competence.
@@Qwerty-jy9mj No one is saying that he is on the front lines of cutting edge research into Dark Energy or something, not even him. But they dont just hand out astrophysics Phds and Directorships of major respected planetariums to any bum off the street and few people are better than him at explaining astrophysics in an interesting and engaging way.
Thank you for your wonderful videos. I am a later in life revert and appreciate your calm and very informative commentary and debates. God bless you! 🙌🙏
Hey Trent, are you really going to debate James White. I saw White saying you two are going to soon