a Fantastic and comprehensive Explanation regarding this Wonderful instrument. The Player displays GREAT virtuosity and I LOVE that he plays a tradition song celebrating the victory of the Hungarians over the Turkish invaders at the Castle and city of Eger... EVERY Hungarian should be aware of this battle and the Heroism of their countrymen and of Captain Dobo. The driving rythym of this song so accurately evokes a desperate battle. WELL DONE!!!!
Wonderful sound! and what a good performer. Also a lot of memories. I visited Hungary quite a few times, staying at the house of a family in Somály north of Eger (mentioned in the last song) I had contact with via a Hungarian man who had been residential in ours family home in the Netherlands for many years while working here to earn money for his family. The first time was in the early 70s and then several times during the 1980-1996 period. But I never encountered this instrument, as most traditional music you could hear in Hungary was on violin, flute, guitar and Bayan and had Gipsy roots. This instrument and the music however clearly have a more central Asian (Turkey, Anatolia Georgia) roots. I remeber from my visit in 1981 that the local youth almost jumped on me to hear the latest western music on the cassettes which I brought with me. But when I had my next visit in 1986 they had MTV before we had, and free access to western music, and now, 34 years on young people are trying to preserve the past in music, which is nice too see. Sadly the man which lived so long with us passed away in 1996 and since I had no contact with his family anymore, they moved to an unknown destination and the little village, Somály, is very much in decline now, with the church, school and community hall I visited all now in rubble or demolished, and half of the little houses gone as well. Fair to say that living conditions in these houses weren't the best back then, let alone now, having a tiny living room, 1 bed room and a small kitchen were a bath tub had to fit in as well. A whole family of 5 had to live in, and I could sleep at grandma's house a bit down the road, she lived alone. The toilet was a outhouse with a latrine and there was no warm water either, water had to be boiled in a kettle for a bath. Despite everything the hospitality of these people was great, and that was what did give such a warm feel to me there, and also made me appreciate everything we may take for granted in our lives. Now things have changed a lot since then, so most people have moved away to places with better job opportunities and more modern houses.
In Romania, this instrument is called the Cobzǎ, and is slightly different than the one(s) played here, with a larger body, gut strings, and oftentimes more strings. It is mainly used as a rhythmic accompaniment instrument, along with the țambal (cimbalom in English, if you're ever in Romania and can find a good țambalagiu you should DEFINITELY do a video). I would not venture so far as to even call the Cobzǎ the same instrument as the Koboz, mainly because of the geographical displacement (the Cobzǎ comes from the far southeast of Romania), and the differences in construction and ethnomusical tradition. They are, however, definitely related, and both share a common ancestor in the Turkish Kopuz.
Koboz = Cobza, and the ones he plays here are identical to Romanian ones (except maybe that Romanians use steel strings). The instrument you are describing (larger body, more strings) sounds rather like an ud (oud) instead.
@@plusexpenses3471 Well that comparison is not incorrect, as all the pear-shaped string instruments descend from the Arabic Oud, from the Lute in the West (al'oud) to these instruments here. Romanian Cobza uses gut strings, has a different shape, and the playing tradition and style is very different. So I suppose your comparison would be like calling the Great Highland Pipes and the Irish Uillean Pipes "the same instrument", because they're both mechanically similar and they share a common ancestor. Technically kind of accurate, just misleading and reductive.
@@celtic.runesinger2481 good points, though I don't think it's entirely accurate to say they all descended from the Arabian oud: the European lute definitely did, but it's likely the oud descends from something earlier, probably from the Afghanistan region in the Gandharan kingdom. The oud and kobuz come from the same instrument(s) that the Chinese pipa and Japanese biwa come from after all, to think that such different 'species' as it were all came from the oud is also highly reductive! More likely they came from several different closely related types that traveled in different directions.
I think you're coping, in Romania is the same instrument whith no visual diferences. A bigger instrument whith more strings is an oud, which is not played in the area. I think you just don't want to admit that we Romanians have the same instrument as the Hungarians. This is exactly how a cobză looks
Again a very interesting instrument. That's a pretty big string spacing ^^ Maybe you could do parallel recordings with small collar mics? That could increase the audibility of the talk whereas you could optimize the room mic for the music.
Harry Chrome thanks for watching! Yes I know it's less than ideal, especially when you have a big room and a softly spoken guest. It's next on the list of upgrades hehe.
Thanks for doing these very interesting videos. Really dig the show and that you and your guests don't only demonstrate and explain the instruments in a technical way, but also try to put them in context of history, culture and songs.
Interestingly the name of the instrument is same in Turkish as well. But I think this connection is not related to Ottoman times. I think this relation goes way back earlier that "Hungarian- Ongary- On Oguré" people and Turkic nomads were same. I am saying that they have both same root. These people come from nomadic culture. The Hungarians mixed with slavs, thats why they looked very alike to them. Whatever. ln Turkish every instrument called "Kopuz".
I’ve long thought it interesting that this instrument is called Koboz in light of the fact that a) two turkic people, the Turks and Kyrgyz, have (long-necked) lutes called Kopuz and Komuz, respectively and b) how similar the instrument is to the oud. I am by no means an authority on Hungarian organology, language, or history, so perhaps someone with more region-specific knowledge could either correct or confirm my intuition, but it seems likely to me that the Ottoman occupation of a large part of Hungary from 1541 to 1699 may have played a part in the development of this instrument or at least its name. Empires tend to leave their footprints in the cultures they conquer, even if their control is temporary.
I totally agree! I've noticed this as well, particularly with the Cimbalom-santur-yangqin connection right across Eurasia. I decided not to comment to heavily on these sorts of things in the videos because I'm in no way a scholar or ethnomusicologist. The safest bet to avoid a flame war was for me to just let each musician share their relationship with the instrument and the music. But I'm sure the Ottoman connection surely had an influence, and perhaps the silk road before that!
It's possible that the koboz/kobza in Hungary and Romania comes from further east in Central Asia and Ukraine or Russian steppes regions. Gergely K. is right, as Laci also says in the video, the first notice of the instrument and name in Hungary is from the 13th century; there's a few old reliquary cups that have sculpted musicians on them playing a short necked lute. It's hard to say what the original Turkic kobuz/kopuz looked like, if it was long or short necked, but instrument names are slippery things and it could have been like the Slavic term gusle or gusli that just means 'string instrument' and is used for different kinds of psalteries, bowed instruments and some plucked lutes, depending on which country you're in. In Ukraine, kobza or cobza was used interchangeably with bandura for a plucked lute, although different from this one. Now bandura is used for a zither with dozens of strings. Variants of kobza/kopuz/kobyz etc. are also used in Kazakhstan for a jaw harp and fiddles, so one can't place too much weight on the names to show historical connection between specific instruments! It is interesting however that the earliest depictions of short necked oud- or lute-like instruments come from the 1st-4th centuries AD in what's now northern Afghanistan and Pakistan, in the ancient kingdom of Gandhara during the Kushan Empire. The Kushan Empire was eventually destroyed by a tribe called the White Huns in the 5th century, and Hunnish tribes were of course very powerful in the Danube and central European areas at that time. Could be a connection idk...?
It's amazing right! It's actually called a utogardon. It looks like a cello but it's actually a percussion instrument. Wild hey! I saw one played but I ran out of time to line up an interview. Next time I pass through for sure!
I've come to think the oud itself comes from an earlier instrument, that probably had 'cousins' in Central Asia that were the ancestors of lutes like the kobza here. :)
Kat Karsecs You are probably right. Because the word “kobza” derives from antique Turkic word “kobuz or kopuz”. Which means “instrument” but it was not used as a particular name of an instrument. They called a buch of instrument as “kopuz”. For example they have bowed instrument called as “kil kopuz” (kil means horsehair), another example is baglama like instrument which named kopuz. There are much of instruments named as kopuz. Maybe when Central Asian nomadic people came to the west, they brought their instruments as well. The settled people of Asia Minor and Europe saw these instruments and they configurated according to their musical needs. I am not saying “These nomadic people brought all of the instruments in Europe and Asia”. Of course they have instruments already in that time. But maybe these nomadic people influenced their musical perspective.
@@cristi37 Definetly. But Oud is another instrument from Turkic/Nomadic Kopuz. It has different background. It is designed for Arabic or Middle east musical needs. The quarter tones etc. Kopuz is a Central asian and northwest siberian instrument. Definetly designed dfor Turkic/mongolic throat singing. It has no armonic capacity. It has generally two strings which is usually horse hair. And when Turkic tribes migrated to the west, they brought a variety of kopuzs with them. Then Ottomans (That they were no longer nomadic) carried these instruments to Balkan Peninsula and Central Europe. By this reason, we can see musical and cultural influences on these former Ottoman states.
Cobza is a Romanian instrument not a Hungarian. The guy playing the cobza is Hungarian. And that is ok if a Hungarian plays a Romanian instrument. But that doesn't make cobza Hungarian. Romania exists and cobza originates from Romania. Search up cobza and it says that
the original Djent machine right here, great instrument
a Fantastic and comprehensive Explanation regarding this Wonderful instrument. The Player displays GREAT virtuosity and I LOVE that he plays a tradition song celebrating the victory of the Hungarians over the Turkish invaders at the Castle and city of Eger... EVERY Hungarian should be aware of this battle and the Heroism of their countrymen and of Captain Dobo. The driving rythym of this song so accurately evokes a desperate battle. WELL DONE!!!!
I’m not a string player but I really loved this video and want to go to Budapest now and listen to this!
Wonderful sound! and what a good performer.
Also a lot of memories.
I visited Hungary quite a few times, staying at the house of a family in Somály north of Eger (mentioned in the last song) I had contact with via a Hungarian man who had been residential in ours family home in the Netherlands for many years while working here to earn money for his family.
The first time was in the early 70s and then several times during the 1980-1996 period.
But I never encountered this instrument, as most traditional music you could hear in Hungary was on violin, flute, guitar and Bayan and had Gipsy roots.
This instrument and the music however clearly have a more central Asian (Turkey, Anatolia Georgia) roots.
I remeber from my visit in 1981 that the local youth almost jumped on me to hear the latest western music on the cassettes which I brought with me.
But when I had my next visit in 1986 they had MTV before we had, and free access to western music, and now, 34 years on young people are trying to preserve the past in music, which is nice too see.
Sadly the man which lived so long with us passed away in 1996 and since I had no contact with his family anymore, they moved to an unknown destination and the little village, Somály, is very much in decline now, with the church, school and community hall I visited all now in rubble or demolished, and half of the little houses gone as well.
Fair to say that living conditions in these houses weren't the best back then, let alone now, having a tiny living room, 1 bed room and a small kitchen were a bath tub had to fit in as well.
A whole family of 5 had to live in, and I could sleep at grandma's house a bit down the road, she lived alone.
The toilet was a outhouse with a latrine and there was no warm water either, water had to be boiled in a kettle for a bath.
Despite everything the hospitality of these people was great, and that was what did give such a warm feel to me there, and also made me appreciate everything we may take for granted in our lives.
Now things have changed a lot since then, so most people have moved away to places with better job opportunities and more modern houses.
Fantastic player! Loved the piece at the end.
The plectrum seems quite similar to that which are used with baglama or oud...
Fascinating! Thank you.
Wonderful sound!
Rediscovering Hyperborean Antiquitech!!! 🙏💕 Thank you for this excellent presentation of this ancient instrument.
In Romania, this instrument is called the Cobzǎ, and is slightly different than the one(s) played here, with a larger body, gut strings, and oftentimes more strings. It is mainly used as a rhythmic accompaniment instrument, along with the țambal (cimbalom in English, if you're ever in Romania and can find a good țambalagiu you should DEFINITELY do a video). I would not venture so far as to even call the Cobzǎ the same instrument as the Koboz, mainly because of the geographical displacement (the Cobzǎ comes from the far southeast of Romania), and the differences in construction and ethnomusical tradition. They are, however, definitely related, and both share a common ancestor in the Turkish Kopuz.
Koboz = Cobza, and the ones he plays here are identical to Romanian ones (except maybe that Romanians use steel strings). The instrument you are describing (larger body, more strings) sounds rather like an ud (oud) instead.
@@plusexpenses3471 Well that comparison is not incorrect, as all the pear-shaped string instruments descend from the Arabic Oud, from the Lute in the West (al'oud) to these instruments here. Romanian Cobza uses gut strings, has a different shape, and the playing tradition and style is very different. So I suppose your comparison would be like calling the Great Highland Pipes and the Irish Uillean Pipes "the same instrument", because they're both mechanically similar and they share a common ancestor. Technically kind of accurate, just misleading and reductive.
@@celtic.runesinger2481 good points, though I don't think it's entirely accurate to say they all descended from the Arabian oud: the European lute definitely did, but it's likely the oud descends from something earlier, probably from the Afghanistan region in the Gandharan kingdom. The oud and kobuz come from the same instrument(s) that the Chinese pipa and Japanese biwa come from after all, to think that such different 'species' as it were all came from the oud is also highly reductive! More likely they came from several different closely related types that traveled in different directions.
I think you're coping, in Romania is the same instrument whith no visual diferences. A bigger instrument whith more strings is an oud, which is not played in the area. I think you just don't want to admit that we Romanians have the same instrument as the Hungarians. This is exactly how a cobză looks
What a blast! Salute! Hope u enjoyed BP!
When he played the strings at 1:20 I thought I was going to hear Black Hole Sun
A type of old time fiddle and mtn dulcimer mix tuning sound.
How about trying Oud?! :D
this instrument is like the Middle Eastern and Turkish Oud
Yes it's on the list! 😁
The Stringdom will you do about the romanian Țambal? (Cimbalom)
Again a very interesting instrument. That's a pretty big string spacing ^^
Maybe you could do parallel recordings with small collar mics? That could increase the audibility of the talk whereas you could optimize the room mic for the music.
Harry Chrome thanks for watching! Yes I know it's less than ideal, especially when you have a big room and a softly spoken guest. It's next on the list of upgrades hehe.
Thanks for doing these very interesting videos. Really dig the show and that you and your guests don't only demonstrate and explain the instruments in a technical way, but also try to put them in context of history, culture and songs.
@@TheStringdom cobza is Romanian but it's ok if anyone plays it. Do nyckelharpa next if u didnt already
Nice oud!
Interesing instrument! IT seems to me to be a hybrid instrument between oud and cobza,which sounds very good
Interestingly the name of the instrument is same in Turkish as well. But I think this connection is not related to Ottoman times. I think this relation goes way back earlier that "Hungarian- Ongary- On Oguré" people and Turkic nomads were same. I am saying that they have both same root. These people come from nomadic culture. The Hungarians mixed with slavs, thats why they looked very alike to them. Whatever. ln Turkish every instrument called "Kopuz".
I’ve long thought it interesting that this instrument is called Koboz in light of the fact that a) two turkic people, the Turks and Kyrgyz, have (long-necked) lutes called Kopuz and Komuz, respectively and b) how similar the instrument is to the oud.
I am by no means an authority on Hungarian organology, language, or history, so perhaps someone with more region-specific knowledge could either correct or confirm my intuition, but it seems likely to me that the Ottoman occupation of a large part of Hungary from 1541 to 1699 may have played a part in the development of this instrument or at least its name. Empires tend to leave their footprints in the cultures they conquer, even if their control is temporary.
Medieval european instrument ... :)West and east
I totally agree! I've noticed this as well, particularly with the Cimbalom-santur-yangqin connection right across Eurasia. I decided not to comment to heavily on these sorts of things in the videos because I'm in no way a scholar or ethnomusicologist. The safest bet to avoid a flame war was for me to just let each musician share their relationship with the instrument and the music. But I'm sure the Ottoman connection surely had an influence, and perhaps the silk road before that!
I think this comes from before the ottoman occupation, when Hungarian and Turkic tribes lived close to each other, but I cant back it up.
It's possible that the koboz/kobza in Hungary and Romania comes from further east in Central Asia and Ukraine or Russian steppes regions. Gergely K. is right, as Laci also says in the video, the first notice of the instrument and name in Hungary is from the 13th century; there's a few old reliquary cups that have sculpted musicians on them playing a short necked lute.
It's hard to say what the original Turkic kobuz/kopuz looked like, if it was long or short necked, but instrument names are slippery things and it could have been like the Slavic term gusle or gusli that just means 'string instrument' and is used for different kinds of psalteries, bowed instruments and some plucked lutes, depending on which country you're in. In Ukraine, kobza or cobza was used interchangeably with bandura for a plucked lute, although different from this one. Now bandura is used for a zither with dozens of strings. Variants of kobza/kopuz/kobyz etc. are also used in Kazakhstan for a jaw harp and fiddles, so one can't place too much weight on the names to show historical connection between specific instruments!
It is interesting however that the earliest depictions of short necked oud- or lute-like instruments come from the 1st-4th centuries AD in what's now northern Afghanistan and Pakistan, in the ancient kingdom of Gandhara during the Kushan Empire. The Kushan Empire was eventually destroyed by a tribe called the White Huns in the 5th century, and Hunnish tribes were of course very powerful in the Danube and central European areas at that time. Could be a connection idk...?
What did it was played on 0:53 and on 8:41?
Music reminded me Witcher 3 really.
much like the oud
I would have thought that you took care to select the quietest room to present the sound of an instrument...
Weird screaming in background at 2:53
Most likely children playing
what is that big beautiful bastard leaning against the couch on the right??
It's amazing right! It's actually called a utogardon. It looks like a cello but it's actually a percussion instrument. Wild hey! I saw one played but I ran out of time to line up an interview. Next time I pass through for sure!
Also all these Lute like instruments originating from Arabic Oud.
I've come to think the oud itself comes from an earlier instrument, that probably had 'cousins' in Central Asia that were the ancestors of lutes like the kobza here. :)
Kat Karsecs You are probably right. Because the word “kobza” derives from antique Turkic word “kobuz or kopuz”. Which means “instrument” but it was not used as a particular name of an instrument. They called a buch of instrument as “kopuz”. For example they have bowed instrument called as “kil kopuz” (kil means horsehair), another example is baglama like instrument which named kopuz. There are much of instruments named as kopuz. Maybe when Central Asian nomadic people came to the west, they brought their instruments as well. The settled people of Asia Minor and Europe saw these instruments and they configurated according to their musical needs. I am not saying “These nomadic people brought all of the instruments in Europe and Asia”. Of course they have instruments already in that time. But maybe these nomadic people influenced their musical perspective.
That's even where the renaissance lute originated
@@cristi37 Definetly. But Oud is another instrument from Turkic/Nomadic Kopuz. It has different background. It is designed for Arabic or Middle east musical needs. The quarter tones etc. Kopuz is a Central asian and northwest siberian instrument. Definetly designed dfor Turkic/mongolic throat singing. It has no armonic capacity. It has generally two strings which is usually horse hair. And when Turkic tribes migrated to the west, they brought a variety of kopuzs with them. Then Ottomans (That they were no longer nomadic) carried these instruments to Balkan Peninsula and Central Europe. By this reason, we can see musical and cultural influences on these former Ottoman states.
It’s a oudzinho
Cobza is a Romanian instrument not a Hungarian. The guy playing the cobza is Hungarian. And that is ok if a Hungarian plays a Romanian instrument. But that doesn't make cobza Hungarian. Romania exists and cobza originates from Romania. Search up cobza and it says that
Stoopid me. They actually do say about cobza being Romanian
It is not only a Romanian instrument. The first users of koboz are in szekelyföld(Transylvania) Cobza is a different instrument. Cobza is not a Koboz