can you get both Huton and Katon in one TCJ? wouldn't any Huton sequence have to END on Ten? You'd always have either Raiton or...Hyoton, I think, in the middle
@@booshalmighty also kind of raises the question of whether they're going to make New!Huton trigger snakeyboys - but the Huton tooltip already has some pretty glaring errors so that may just be a translation oversight
@AruthaSilverthorn I don't understand what you mean. Doton still does way more potency than Huton, so you'd still use it whenever it's not up during trash.
@AruthaSilverthorn If anything it forces out Katon uses. When starting a pull it would be Huton, then when gathered up TCJ (Doton) > Huton + Meisui, with every mudra after that likely being Doton unless trash is nearly dead. For 1 minute pulls Huton + Meisui becomes a Katon.
@AruthaSilverthorn They'll never make Doton last a minute since it would force pre-pull shenanigans in raids. It's why they reduced it from 21s to 18s in EW
風遁 (Huton/Fuuton) dealing FIRE damage in that tooltip is WILD. I hope it's fixed for the final release. LOL (The name means Wind Trap, hence the wind animations)
It’s nice having Ninja release in a functional state on day 1 for once-which cannot be said for the last several expansions lol. NIN looks to be eating quite well (even if I wish they reworked Raijus to be more interesting).
I wish they would change Mug/Dokumuri so the debuff adds to the counter of existing debuff rather than overlaps. It sucks how its a ninki generator in your opener but if you overlap with other ninja's on it then its a big raid-wide dps loss. They need to either make it not generate ninki, or make it extend the debuff if someone else already applied it.
I think using Huton in TCJ is gonna end up being a massive loss for AoE, since you lose out on Katon and replace it with fuggin' Hyoton lmao. I think the play I will go for will be to Huton the pack as I'm running, and once the tank stops, do AoEgcd + Mug+Trick > AoEgcd + TCJ > Fuma>Katon>Doton > Kass+Goka into everything else. That will make things stay more or less comfortably aligned for bosses, and also buy a little time to properly judge if the tank stops or not by prioritzing using Mug and Trick before TCJ.
Thanks for this video, very few people are talking about the great changes to NIN AoE in DT. I always considered NIN to be one of the most interesting jobs when it comes to AoE for all the different tools you are offered and how they work off of each other, but there were some strange elements in it that are being effectively addressed now. Also, ARR NIN doesn't suck anymore, thank goodness. Some other points I would like to have addressed are the following: -Make Phantom Kamaitachi give you a kazematoi. It'd make sense considering it already extended Huton by 10 seconds, and would allow you to start the opener with Aeolian Edge instead of Armor Crush, which I find a bit awkward. I also think it goes well with the ability of Phantom Kamaitachi to be "stored" for uptime or handling positionals. -I wish Dokumori were an AoE. I think you are on the money on how it granting Higi makes it feel less bad, but ultimately, unless the debuff affects every enemy like Kunai's Bane does it is still going to feel like you are being unfairly punished when compared to the other jobs' raid buffs. Speaking of Higi... -I'm surprised it's Dokumori granting Higi instead of Mesui. It just feels like it makes more sense to turn the potency buff on Mesui into Higi. That would make it so that Mesui feels better on AoE instances, instead of feeling like I have to maybe workshop an optimized Bhavacakra into the encounter. But also, if the opener remains similar to how it is now, you wouldn't be using Bhavas anyway until after Mesui, so it's not like Dokumori in particular granting High changes anything (potency numbers aside). -Finally, I wish they found a way to make Hyoton useful. I've been trying to come up with ways an extra ninjutsu would be integrated and I'm sad they actually found one but they added it to Huton instead because the ninjutsu slot freed up. -A very small note, but I am going to miss downtime Huton. Not like we need a downtime tool, but it'd be neat to get something like Samurai's Meditate. Btw, this is my current plan for AoE pulls in dungeon for Dawntrail: you start with Huton, then once the pull stops, you Doton, Kunai's bane, and then TCJ as Shuriken-Katon-Huton (plus all the other stuff like kassatsu, dokumori, etc). Does that sound good?
As someone else pointed out in the comments, you can't actually katon huton. Both ninjutsu currently end on ten, which means if you katon, you're forced to suiton (CTJ) or doton (JTC), and if you want huton, you have to start with raiton (JCT) or hyoton (CJT).
Thank you! I like your editing style! Also help you get straight to the meat, no clickbait bullshit, well-paced voice, and useful guides! Yeah, finally, Leveling/Sync Ninja will no longer be a crippled old shinobi who suddenly pulls fireworks out of their ass at the most random levels
After playing for a bit in 7.0 removal of Huton gauge make playing ninja more enjoyable. I wish "kunais" were used more frequently like in AoE combo rather than only to boost 1 ability. Also I find getting kunais and spending thema little weird: you get 2 per armor crush you spent 1 per Aeolian edge you can hold max 5
I don't see how Huton>Meisui>Hellfrog is a gain over Katon+Nozuchi with current known potencies. I suppose it would often be if some targets aren't in your Doton but would be hit by Huton and Hellfrog, and I feel like there's a good chance Huton will be made to trigger Hollow Nozuchi, but as it is now... what am I missing?
You are right that in perfect circumstances where everything is in doton then snakey bois makes katon the same potency, and is actually higher pps due to one less mudra. Cirumstances are rarely perfect though and if doton drops or if some trash is outside it then huton meisui is a gain. We'll see how final potencies work out though.
honestly surprised it took this long for huton to get the axe considering how monk's greased lightning got turned into a trait back at the start of EW for many of the same reasons
Turns out maintaining a default buff that the game balance expects you to always have up is a really, really terrible game mechanic. I'm glad even WoW and FFXIV have slowly realized that it's not engaging, it's not difficult, it's just tedious. It's also why I was shocked at how many people were upset about Samurai's removal of... whatever the ability was that you had to use by default before every spender. People acted like it was "dumbing the game down" and it's like no, there was NO optimization opener or other scenario where you would EVER not use it. Now do I wish they baked the little animation into spenders? Yes. But whatever. When buttons / buffs are just "mandatory, you ALWAYS use this", they shouldn't exist. Better gameplay choices or at least more interesting rotations should exist instead. I remember playing Rogue in WoW when they removed Slice & Dice, and all of a sudden there was no more having to do a stupid finisher that does nothing except get you up to your "normal" dps output every. single. fight. God it was so dumb. They added it as a talent later but at least then it was optional if you wanted to bother with that stupidity. (And before anyone says it, short term buffs that you have to think about "when should I use this" are not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about mandatory buffs, whether it's a "you have this up 24/7" or "you always click it before a spender". Those are lame and create useless button bloat.)
With EW, they made Doton end when you Hide, presumably to put an end to prepull Dotons, but if we don't need to reset our mudras anymore, I suppose those prepull Dotons might be back on the table. I still won't participate in that nonsense, though.
Honestly I'm just gonna miss the Huton buff timer and its old animation. I thought it was cool to have a Ninjutsu that was totally unique and not just AoE Suiton. Additionally, everyone complains about Armor Crush at 54, but I thought it was cool to have the gameplay be different at lower levels than higher, it makes unlocking Armor Crush feel super satisfying, and pre 54 gameplay encouraging you to delay reapplication of a buff until the last second is something that we don't really see in many classes in the game anymore. I don't get the criticism of "It felt bad" because using Huton to reapply itself was just objectively correct and the best thing to do for your damage. But the new system seems...fine. I hope that next expansion Ninja gets something else to do in between bursts as I can't really imagine the burst window getting any more busy.
I still believe all melee jobs need to have cone or line aoes or ranged aoes like hellfrog...it's way too easy for players to die greeding aoes during wall pulls and not paying attention to the layers upon layers of aoes the mobs are casting
They need to fix fucking shukuchi. It's a shitty gap/distance compared to rpr etc. He'll you can't even do the quest how orobo wants you to do in bronze lake. You just hit the ground...
If you want Shukuchi to function more like a dash, you can us a "/ac Shukuchi gtoff" macro. This will skip the ground targeting portion and dash either to where your mouse is pointing, or to where you last pointed the pseudo mouse on controller. For controller this effectively gives you a dash in the direction your camera is facing. Shukuchi is weird. It is simultaneously the best and worst movement tool. If you just want to dash back in to the edge of the bosses hitbox, it is awful, but for precise quick movement it is the best, great for adjusting for other's mistakes.
@@StriderZessei You can, although it will teleport you to the centre of the bosses hitbox, not the edge, which can sometimes cause problems. If I recall correctly, using it to gap close in dog 2 in P8S teleported you into the deathwall for instance.
can you get both Huton and Katon in one TCJ? wouldn't any Huton sequence have to END on Ten? You'd always have either Raiton or...Hyoton, I think, in the middle
Shit I think you're right
@@booshalmighty also kind of raises the question of whether they're going to make New!Huton trigger snakeyboys - but the Huton tooltip already has some pretty glaring errors so that may just be a translation oversight
@AruthaSilverthorn I don't understand what you mean. Doton still does way more potency than Huton, so you'd still use it whenever it's not up during trash.
@AruthaSilverthorn If anything it forces out Katon uses. When starting a pull it would be Huton, then when gathered up TCJ (Doton) > Huton + Meisui, with every mudra after that likely being Doton unless trash is nearly dead. For 1 minute pulls Huton + Meisui becomes a Katon.
@AruthaSilverthorn They'll never make Doton last a minute since it would force pre-pull shenanigans in raids. It's why they reduced it from 21s to 18s in EW
風遁 (Huton/Fuuton) dealing FIRE damage in that tooltip is WILD. I hope it's fixed for the final release. LOL
(The name means Wind Trap, hence the wind animations)
It’s nice having Ninja release in a functional state on day 1 for once-which cannot be said for the last several expansions lol. NIN looks to be eating quite well (even if I wish they reworked Raijus to be more interesting).
I wish they would change Mug/Dokumuri so the debuff adds to the counter of existing debuff rather than overlaps. It sucks how its a ninki generator in your opener but if you overlap with other ninja's on it then its a big raid-wide dps loss. They need to either make it not generate ninki, or make it extend the debuff if someone else already applied it.
I remember hearing someone make the joke that the upgrades Hellfrog Medium is Hellfrog Large
I think using Huton in TCJ is gonna end up being a massive loss for AoE, since you lose out on Katon and replace it with fuggin' Hyoton lmao. I think the play I will go for will be to Huton the pack as I'm running, and once the tank stops, do AoEgcd + Mug+Trick > AoEgcd + TCJ > Fuma>Katon>Doton > Kass+Goka into everything else. That will make things stay more or less comfortably aligned for bosses, and also buy a little time to properly judge if the tank stops or not by prioritzing using Mug and Trick before TCJ.
Thanks for this video, very few people are talking about the great changes to NIN AoE in DT. I always considered NIN to be one of the most interesting jobs when it comes to AoE for all the different tools you are offered and how they work off of each other, but there were some strange elements in it that are being effectively addressed now. Also, ARR NIN doesn't suck anymore, thank goodness.
Some other points I would like to have addressed are the following:
-Make Phantom Kamaitachi give you a kazematoi. It'd make sense considering it already extended Huton by 10 seconds, and would allow you to start the opener with Aeolian Edge instead of Armor Crush, which I find a bit awkward. I also think it goes well with the ability of Phantom Kamaitachi to be "stored" for uptime or handling positionals.
-I wish Dokumori were an AoE. I think you are on the money on how it granting Higi makes it feel less bad, but ultimately, unless the debuff affects every enemy like Kunai's Bane does it is still going to feel like you are being unfairly punished when compared to the other jobs' raid buffs. Speaking of Higi...
-I'm surprised it's Dokumori granting Higi instead of Mesui. It just feels like it makes more sense to turn the potency buff on Mesui into Higi. That would make it so that Mesui feels better on AoE instances, instead of feeling like I have to maybe workshop an optimized Bhavacakra into the encounter. But also, if the opener remains similar to how it is now, you wouldn't be using Bhavas anyway until after Mesui, so it's not like Dokumori in particular granting High changes anything (potency numbers aside).
-Finally, I wish they found a way to make Hyoton useful. I've been trying to come up with ways an extra ninjutsu would be integrated and I'm sad they actually found one but they added it to Huton instead because the ninjutsu slot freed up.
-A very small note, but I am going to miss downtime Huton. Not like we need a downtime tool, but it'd be neat to get something like Samurai's Meditate.
Btw, this is my current plan for AoE pulls in dungeon for Dawntrail: you start with Huton, then once the pull stops, you Doton, Kunai's bane, and then TCJ as Shuriken-Katon-Huton (plus all the other stuff like kassatsu, dokumori, etc). Does that sound good?
As someone else pointed out in the comments, you can't actually katon huton. Both ninjutsu currently end on ten, which means if you katon, you're forced to suiton (CTJ) or doton (JTC), and if you want huton, you have to start with raiton (JCT) or hyoton (CJT).
@@Jay-mx5ky you're right, thanks for the answer. Guess you would doton through TCJ then.
Thank you! I like your editing style! Also help you get straight to the meat, no clickbait bullshit, well-paced voice, and useful guides! Yeah, finally, Leveling/Sync Ninja will no longer be a crippled old shinobi who suddenly pulls fireworks out of their ass at the most random levels
After playing for a bit in 7.0 removal of Huton gauge make playing ninja more enjoyable. I wish "kunais" were used more frequently like in AoE combo rather than only to boost 1 ability. Also I find getting kunais and spending thema little weird:
you get 2 per armor crush
you spent 1 per Aeolian edge
you can hold max 5
I agree on the AoE thing, but I guess they don't want to do a branching combo for AoE
I don't see how Huton>Meisui>Hellfrog is a gain over Katon+Nozuchi with current known potencies. I suppose it would often be if some targets aren't in your Doton but would be hit by Huton and Hellfrog, and I feel like there's a good chance Huton will be made to trigger Hollow Nozuchi, but as it is now... what am I missing?
You are right that in perfect circumstances where everything is in doton then snakey bois makes katon the same potency, and is actually higher pps due to one less mudra.
Cirumstances are rarely perfect though and if doton drops or if some trash is outside it then huton meisui is a gain. We'll see how final potencies work out though.
honestly surprised it took this long for huton to get the axe considering how monk's greased lightning got turned into a trait back at the start of EW for many of the same reasons
Turns out maintaining a default buff that the game balance expects you to always have up is a really, really terrible game mechanic. I'm glad even WoW and FFXIV have slowly realized that it's not engaging, it's not difficult, it's just tedious. It's also why I was shocked at how many people were upset about Samurai's removal of... whatever the ability was that you had to use by default before every spender. People acted like it was "dumbing the game down" and it's like no, there was NO optimization opener or other scenario where you would EVER not use it. Now do I wish they baked the little animation into spenders? Yes. But whatever.
When buttons / buffs are just "mandatory, you ALWAYS use this", they shouldn't exist. Better gameplay choices or at least more interesting rotations should exist instead.
I remember playing Rogue in WoW when they removed Slice & Dice, and all of a sudden there was no more having to do a stupid finisher that does nothing except get you up to your "normal" dps output every. single. fight. God it was so dumb. They added it as a talent later but at least then it was optional if you wanted to bother with that stupidity.
(And before anyone says it, short term buffs that you have to think about "when should I use this" are not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about mandatory buffs, whether it's a "you have this up 24/7" or "you always click it before a spender". Those are lame and create useless button bloat.)
With EW, they made Doton end when you Hide, presumably to put an end to prepull Dotons, but if we don't need to reset our mudras anymore, I suppose those prepull Dotons might be back on the table. I still won't participate in that nonsense, though.
Honestly I'm just gonna miss the Huton buff timer and its old animation. I thought it was cool to have a Ninjutsu that was totally unique and not just AoE Suiton. Additionally, everyone complains about Armor Crush at 54, but I thought it was cool to have the gameplay be different at lower levels than higher, it makes unlocking Armor Crush feel super satisfying, and pre 54 gameplay encouraging you to delay reapplication of a buff until the last second is something that we don't really see in many classes in the game anymore. I don't get the criticism of "It felt bad" because using Huton to reapply itself was just objectively correct and the best thing to do for your damage. But the new system seems...fine. I hope that next expansion Ninja gets something else to do in between bursts as I can't really imagine the burst window getting any more busy.
I still believe all melee jobs need to have cone or line aoes or ranged aoes like hellfrog...it's way too easy for players to die greeding aoes during wall pulls and not paying attention to the layers upon layers of aoes the mobs are casting
And the fact that large mobs tend to block the AOE's they produce if there is more than one of them.
Sounds like they need to use bloodbath more.
sounds like a skill issue tbh, if its a constant problem just play a ranged dps. Stop advocating for homogenization
@@Daimaza If anything, Drg needs to have the line aoes changed back to circles. Still miss ring of thorns.
@@DaimazaDude shut your elitist trap
They need to fix fucking shukuchi. It's a shitty gap/distance compared to rpr etc. He'll you can't even do the quest how orobo wants you to do in bronze lake. You just hit the ground...
I hate auto correct...
If you want Shukuchi to function more like a dash, you can us a "/ac Shukuchi gtoff" macro. This will skip the ground targeting portion and dash either to where your mouse is pointing, or to where you last pointed the pseudo mouse on controller. For controller this effectively gives you a dash in the direction your camera is facing.
Shukuchi is weird. It is simultaneously the best and worst movement tool. If you just want to dash back in to the edge of the bosses hitbox, it is awful, but for precise quick movement it is the best, great for adjusting for other's mistakes.
@booshalmighty you can also macro Shukuchi to the target, no?
@@StriderZessei You can, although it will teleport you to the centre of the bosses hitbox, not the edge, which can sometimes cause problems. If I recall correctly, using it to gap close in dog 2 in P8S teleported you into the deathwall for instance.
@@booshalmighty Oh, gotcha. Yeah I use M+KB, so I don't use the macro often, so that's good to know.