I’m a 48 year old Swedish woman, a mother of two teenage boys and a teacher, and I cannot tell you how much I appreciate watching two young, intelligent men listen and talk about real issues in the world. Bravo 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻!
I like the guys in the video but to call them intelligent after listening and reacting to Stephen Fry is like comparing Albert Einstein to Graham Hancock. Well done for being a woman, Swedish a mother of at least two, do you have any daughters?
alright, i jumped the gun a little. They did appreciate "The Fry" as much as I had hoped. Oh and by the way, I am a English man, a father of one daughter (12) ive raised her as a single father since she was 5, and I am an event manager
From one gay boy to another, I bloody love Stephen Fry. He’s restrained, yet acerbic, barbed, and considered in what he says. He’s a fantastic human. He’s a dude! 👊🏻
Didn't he also say something like: 'the subjugation of mankind ends when the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest'? Something like that.
Nope, religions and gods were first invented to explain natural phenomena, storms, rain, sun, night, drought etc. in time as we learned how nature works religions became something else and different, a tool for control and power.
@@takoja507 100% this. It also explains why older religions (now myths) had many gods, and now most religions have one. The further a civilization gets, the fewer gods it needs to explain things. From polytheism, to monotheism. What a strange coincidence.
“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?” ― Epicurus
@@darrel7382 The Mesha Stele bears the earliest certain extrabiblical reference to the Israelite god Yahweh in 840 BCE. And even before that people had many gods. It doesn't matter which one Epicurus addresses. Religion and gods are always bullshit.
The great Irish comedian Dave Allen told the best joke that sums it all up nicely. An atheist and the Pope are discussing religion. The Pope says to the atheist "You are like a blindfolded man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there". The atheist comes back with "You are the same, a blindfolded man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there. The only difference is that you've found it"
@@mats7492 It`s supposed to mean that you exist and that I exist and so does everybody else. It follows that something must exist - unless you can come from nothing. If you can come from nothing then so can I and so can God....
@@dogwithwigwamz.7320 well, i can prove my existence and where i come from (my parents). thousands of years of human civilisation, still zero proof of a god
Stephen Fry is just such an incredibly intelligent, well-educated and articulate person. But he is also passionate and compassionate. And he has the courage to stand up, with well-deserved indignation, and rail against the institutions which have enormous sway and which also do enormous harm. Well done.
Yeah, she was a right wing MP in Britain. Famously very religious and a virgin. There is a rule of thumb, which is 'what does Ann Widdecombe think?' then you should probably draw the opposite conclusion. However, she's not all bad. When Widde was an MP, she did seem to take public service seriously. There was a huge MPs expenses scandal in Britain about 15 years ago and she came out of that very well. E.g. She claimed expenses for her mid-range hotel, but paid for her own dinner, while others, on both sides of the political spectrum, were literally claiming expenses to buy second homes. The two most notorious claims were both from her party though (Conservative Party) - Nadhim Zahawi claimed (*checks internet) £5,822.27 to HEAT HIS STABLES and, my personal favourite, Peter Viggers claimed £1,645 of UK taxpayers money, to build a 'FLOATING DUCK ISLAND'. An architectural triumph, modelled on the Stockholm museums 18th century buildings, but you know, for ducks.
The question of limbo for babies is based on the older idea that all babies who were not baptised before death went into limbo. Neither heaven or hell. Very distressing for bereaved parents.
Yes, according to the church beliefs I was taught in Catholic school prior to the year 2000, we are all born with "original sin", which is absolved when we are baptised. If a child dies before they are baptised, then their soul carries that sin and, without absolution, they may not enter the eternal kingdom of heaven. So many parents grieved for their lost children, who were never allowed into heaven and, therefore, the parents could never reunite with them in the afterlife. What a crock of shit!
@@Damaaskrose One should add however that sincde 2007 the idea of 'limbs' is no longer part of the offical teaching of the Church. it is to be considered as an a quite stupid idea of the past as many otherecclesiastical ideas. Fortunately even the Catholic Chruch experiences its own evolution (cf; homsexuality, heliocentrism etc...)
This guy is one of our national treasures ! He can swing from pure silly comedy like 'Blackadder' and then hold his own with intellectuals of many persuasions = A perfect example of 'A font of knowledge '
I would have agreed until the point he spoke very knowingly about a subject I know extremely well (on QI). He got the basics wrong and then just kept digging. Since then, I have taken a spoonful of salt with what he says on subjects I'm not so knowledgeable about.
I love listening to you guys and I love your program. Your program on political correctness was brilliant. Stephen Fry is a World Treasure to say nothing of being a national treasure, he’s been outstanding for years. I just love how you guys engage with these issues and with class acts like Stephen Fry. It just keeps me coming back to your channel and I’m never disappointed. I’m from Australia and 76.🤗
Widdecombe's position during this debate was one of sanctimonious superiority. She positively oozed arrogance and dismissal of any viewpoint other than her own. It was also noticeable that she was less able to engage with the opposing view of the Church, whilst the Bishop was very much aware of the uphill struggle he faced.
She also demonstrates a similar `superiority` in her argument for the cessation of the UK from the EU. But she`s not going to suffer by the UK leaving the EU.
In the words of Dara O'Briain - "If science thought it knew everything, it'd stop." When someone claims to have all the answers, the search for further answers ceases - a common problem with all the most narrow-minded people.
It amazes me how many people refuse to accept unanswerable questions, like they try so hard to give an answer to everything (even without true proof or fact). It's okay to say/hear "I/we don't know"
"That´s not nice"! The most accurate and understated description of an official stance by a church - any church! Carries far more weight of approbation than any swearing, cursing rant could ever do.
Perfectly said. I couldn't have said it better myself. No; I really couldn't! He is as you say, very eloquent. He's very clever and funny too. I love him 😊
Anne Widdicombe (the white woman) used to be an MP (Member of Parliament), and her track record is horrendous. She's against sex education, same sex relationships, teaching girls about their bodies and the changes they'll go through, gay marriage, migration (legal or not). Her and Stephen have been at loggerheads a few times.
You forgot to mention Ann Widdecombe is a Tory, and an "old-fashioned Catholic" too... Which is bad enough but her stance on anything is as you correctly said, is horrendous, old-fashioned...just inconceivably unkind and unfair... Just unforgivably _unjust_.
Limbo, in Catholic theology, was believed to be the border place between heaven and hell where those souls who died without being baptised, though not condemned to punishment, were deprived of eternal happiness with God in heaven. And sadly if I am not mistaken, its something the Church came with around the 13th century... And for all his time the doctrine was that an infant even if without sin dies before being baptised will go to Limbo (for all eternity). Stephen Fry is such a pleasure and a privilege to listen to...
13:20 the concept of original sin and not being baptised yet. So if a baby dies at birth stillborn or soon thereafter SIDS sudden infant death syndrome , then the baby doesn't go to heaven :-( Never mind that is probably the Most Traumatic event in a mother's (and fathers) life. When the parents need comfort and consoling the most. Knowing their child is safe in heaven with other deceased relatives would be at least some comfort
Part of it too was the paying of indulgences. The Church exploited the fear of the loved ones of unbaptised people (specifically infants) by selling them "penances". The payments-from people who were often poor-were to absolve a past sin, or to have their baby or loved one released from purgatory/limbo. But it wasn't a one-time payment. They could go on for years and years.
Hey Joel, that whole debate with Fry and Hitchens on the Catholic Church is worth watching. At 2 hours, it’s not a good candidate for a reaction video unless severely cut, but just to see the amazing arguments on both sides develop and then ultimately conclude is inspiring, both intellectually and morally. It’s 2 hours of your life very well spent. Nothing wrong with filming a reaction then seeing if you can edit it down to something watchable. If not, you’ll still gain the enlightenment from watching the debate in its entirety.
For Arturo, limbo in Catholic doctrine is a place on the edge of Hell where the souls of babies who die before being baptised go, for eternity. An unspeakably cruel and manipulative device designed to scare parents into baptising their infant children into the Church at the earliest opportunity, on pain of eternal torture for the most innocent of souls. Of course it only works on parents who have themselves been indoctrinated into these evil myths in the first place.
Even though I'm on the other side, I almost felt sorry for those arguing that the church was a force for good. It was at the level of "Stop hitting them, they are already dead."
@@donkfail1 At the end there were still 34 undecided and 268 who still think its a force for good. Don't stop hitting. It is a terrible corrupt organisation.
@@stephenlee5929 Sure, but a lot of them were grownups who had been Catholics for life. It's impressive to just make a few of those think "Maybe I've been wrong all this time." with just a couple of speeches. But I agree. We shouldn't stop until everyone starts thinking for themselves.
The woman on the panel in Ann Widdecombe. She is a former Conservative MP and now a member of Brexit Party. She loves to talk through other people's speech while she cannot bear to be interrupted. She's barking mad.
Watching the two of you responding and discussing this in a mature and reasonable way gives me hope for the future. Well done lads you did an amazing job.
Hi Joel and friend. I'm 67yo. I love utube partly because,against all the evidence,I can see so much goodness in our fabulous world. And you (both)are part of it. A thought from Manchester UK.
I have watched that entire debate, including the presentations by both sides. The late Mr. Hitchens and Stephen Fry spoke after the proponents for the Roman Catholics Church and were so obviously prepared to dismiss the sanctimonious bullshit they had presented. Good on them! For the intelligent but funny side of Stephen Fry, I recommend you check out the long-running British panel show, "QI". Lots of science and historical facts, and hysterical laughter! Cheers!
Christopher Hitchens was not a Dr., he didn't have a doctorate. If you thought so on the basis of him being a visiting professor, many institutions will accept an undergraduate degree, as Hitch had.
Apart from everything else, his use of English is amazing as well. I will always be grateful to my English teacher who pointed him out to me. I instantly fell in love with everything he did and said. He's witty, clever, funny, intelligent, kind.. anything you could wish for.
As was Oscar Wilde 130 years back (Who Fry has depicted on film and he feels more than a little rapport with). However, at the peak of his fame, Wilde was disgraced and imprisoned, sentenced to hard labour and died within a few years of his release in 1897, from injuries sustained in prison, separated from his family, in poverty in France. For many decades afterward his brilliant books and plays were not published or performed and his reputation was in tatters, scapegoated and his name was used as an object for public hate and derision right up until modern times in Britain. Wilde is buried at Père Lachaise cemetary in Paris, many visit it almost as a pilgrimage to one of our brightest and wittiest men. I found reading the inscription (and graffiti) on the beautiful tomb to be a very emotional experience. One French commentator at the time of his death said something like 'In France we revere our great writers. In Britain they put them in prison'.
Stephen Fry is known all across Europe for his books, documentaries, comedy and movies. I guess in the USA he might be known for his role in V for Vendetta. I will always be grateful for his brilliant and honest documentary about bipolarity. (Secret life of the manic depressive) Obviously his debates with many famous atheist like his friend Hitchens are incredibly enjoyable and informative.
The whole discussion - Whittecombe and Bishop Onaiyekan vs Fry and Hitchens - is just a fascinating watch. Although it wasn't really a discussion... the Bishop and Ann got absolutely eviscerated by the powerhouse that was the Fry-Hitchens teamup.
Thankyou Stephen fry for being unapologetic in your calm and factual contribution to changing the world .. I aspire to be like you and continue to believe in a moral compass and speak passionately of it. I hope that I can inspire our future generations as you do …..❤
FUN FACT - Anne Widdecombe's brother Maclom Widdecombe was a Priest, he was vehemently opposed to women becoming priests and worked with a vicar who was approved by a bishop to have a sex change.
I totally agree with Fry a Church of England sent to Catholic School, who asked questions and said what i thought and was banned from Religious classes for my school life. How can a compassionate god kill children, cause such suffering, cause cruelty
The baby thing at 13:05: parents were told for eons that if their baby died before being baptized that their soul would neither go to heaven or hell, the soul would stay in limbo. Which was of course distressing for the religious faithful parents. Funnily enough parents could buy eternal peace for those baby souls. If they’d cash up the priest could make it so that the soul would be saved from limbo. Which is an especially cruel cash grab when you think about the infant mortality rate in the olden times when babies would regularly die shortly after being born.
The woman on the panel is Ann Widercombe, who used to be a Conservative MP (Member of Parliament) and held positions in the Conservative Party cabinet for many years. She’s holds very right-wing views, had continually voted against LGBT rights (including equal age of consent, same-sex marriage - and she supported Section 28) and is against the rights for a woman to choose to have an abortion. A delightful woman! (Yes, I’m being sarcastic)
" very right wing views " lol you mean she holds standard conservative views and your failings as a citizen cannot handle anything in life without having to label it because you have not the guts to be honest with yourself. The are many like you.
A woman of great intelligence whose scorned & broken heart had her dedicate a life for god and her country. I have not the moral right to be sarcastic. No one has. And to see lesser people make fun of her because of her looks and not her brain, really irked me. @@MihaiRoman.
Thank you, what an absolute gem: both S. Fry's acerbic brilliance and your thoughtful reflections. If/when you meet someone questioning the value of intelligent debate, voting, etc., show them the before and after at 25:00.
13:22 Steven talked about "Limbo" & the church teaching that unbaptized babies & children burn in hell for ever. That was "LImbo of the Infants" or in other words complete morally bankrupt bullshit.
The most concise and humane religious teaching I've ever encountered, comes from Bill and Ted... "Be Excellent to each other". That's all there is to it, really.
@@garlichr Amazing how you elevate a Hollywood film over the oldest collection of books in the world, that, as well as other texts give us Jesus Christ....cos interestingly, it's Jesus that is triggering to people, not the bible.
The “limbo” reference is about the fact that doctrine states that if a child passed away before it is baptised or christened it’s soul will forever remain in limbo and never be allowed into the gates of heaven. So this can destroy a follower of the religion if their child died during childbirth or at the hospital or in a car accident I. The way to the church to partake in the ceremony. To put believers through that is unforgivable.
You two guys are a breath of fresh air. I was raised in the church (protestant not catholic). I met some wonderful people but I met a lot more people who were total hypocrites. I have no doubt that there are some wonderful people who do their best to live a christian life .but there are far too many who aren't prepared to own their failings. Quite a few years ago there was a big community campaign where the buzz phrase was "not perfect, just forgiven". So many seemed to use that as an excuse for not even trying. Please keep up the great work guys. Thank you.
I’m a scientist who used to be so deep in religion that I was a preacher (not an ordained minister, admittedly) and did missionary work. I know both sides of this coin quite well. Stephen Fry is brilliant and effectively spot on about everything.
There was a movie a few years back which was a (not that good) biopic of Oscar Wilde. Stephen Fry was cast in the lead role, and it was an inspired choice. Fry's wit, humour, and devastating ability to speak about just about any subject makes his as near a modern equivalent of Wilde as you're likely to get. He's hilarious when doing comedy, and thoroughly thought-provoking when he's being serious.
Joel ,there was a vote taken among the public a few years ago asking people who they would most like to invite to dinner and Stephen Fry came out head and shoulders above any other person 🇬🇧
One of the philosophical razors I subscribe to is Hitchings Razor - That which can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. The other one I most follow is Occam’s Razor - The solution that requires the fewest assumptions is most likely to be correct.
No words to describe admiration I have for Stephen Fry. So intelligent and such a thoroughly decent human being. Also helps that I agree with everything he says! 😊 As for Ann widdecombe. Can only say...typical Tory!
You sound like one of those people who still don't get it that all political parties are the same people behind the scenes. You've never lived in a democracy your entire life, just the illusion of one 🙄 Please wake up.
The abhorrent confidence of religious people is detrimental, to put it lightly. This was such a refreshing watch. Stephen Fry is one of the only people I’d consider to be a role model. An absolute intellectual beacon in the modern world.
Why Catholic priests are celebrate: According to Jason Berry of The New York Times, "The requirement of celibacy is not dogma; it is an ecclesiastical law that was adopted in the Middle Ages because Rome was worried that clerics' children would inherit church property and create dynasties."
So hard to watch I was bullied and then as an adult abused and beaten in the 90s and 00s its so sad to watch. I have to admit he is much more intelligent than I am but he is a clear winner with this speech.
I love this line from Dara O'Brien (a joke, responding to 'Science doesn't know everything' argument): "Well science knows it doesn't know everything, otherwise it would stop"
9:08 I remember religious zealots at the London Pride Parade reading out Bible verses like let us have one day to ourselves. God forbid we celebrate something.
Thanks for staying intellectually curious :) As for Jordan Peterson what he was saying resonated with me at first but the more I heard from him I realized it was mostly word sallad and that part where he had me interested and onboard turned out not to be an accurate representation of reality (his going against "forced speech" look into what those law amendments actually state and you'll see just how wrong he was on those points). Take care!
I detest religious fundamentalists whether christian, muslim, hindu etc etc. No one religion has the right to dictate their theology onto people. No one religion is the "only" one or the "right" one. Stephen Fry is a lovely human being.
“No one religion has the right to dictate their theology onto people.No one religion is the “only”one or the right one.” You are making a truth claim that dictates your theology,why have you the right to make the claim while the Christian cannot claim there is only one true faith?
I’m late 30,s from Britain and I think it’s awesome that you guys are educating yourselves and are open to facts as they present themselves to you, I wish more people in the world used their brains with a kind spirit and the world would be so much better in my humble opinion, much love ❤️
Hello Joel and pal. Keep those minds open. I could not help but think of the origins of "The Troubles". When hate takes over you end up with situations like having to check deliveries and under the car for bombs, like when I was a kid in UK, because of my dad's job.
For hundreds of years the church told women that their babies who died before being baptised were forever to be in purgatory, also women who died in childbirth weren't allowed to be buried within consecrated ground. The women and children were treated as dirty and unworthy, the same as people who committed sins such as suicide, the church refused to recognise their faith and loyalty.
Well done you guys. Too bad Hitchens is gone but fortunately we still have Fry!! I'm surprised with the revelations from Hubble and JWST that cosmology isn't playing a larger role in the overall discussion. Good choice Joel and Arturo! John
I was listening to an audiobook, it might have been one of Stephen's, and they said something like "Just because of the amount of pain and suffering that is in our world I don't believe there is a god. But there should be."
Always a delight to listen to Stephen Fry, I thoroughly enjoy his intellect. It is also a delight to see you two young men actively involved . Keep up the good work JP. I have been dropping in on you for some time now and am so pleased you are looking at this.
Good on you both. I thoughoughly enjoyed watching you two young men broaching a subject such as this. Academic, balanced debate is so necessary. Keep those young minds open, be true too yourself and enjoy your journey. 🌻
I'm so glad to see you young guys reacting to this in such a logical, reasoning way - I lost my 21 year old daughter to ovarian cancer two years ago and Stephen Fry's statement about god giving children bone cancer really resonates with me. Religion, and their god, are evil.
Your admission ‘I don’t know …….’ is an honest reaction and a healthy one when dealing with such complex subjects: keep being true to yourself in this way until you find an answer that satisfies you - but always be open to revision and change.
i'm a 65 yr old welshman and Petra has said everything that i was about to say, so keep up the good work ,you and your friends seem to be tuned in to life. there are a few American reacts type things but you are my favourite
Something I enjoyed with Steven Fry, was a 6 part series where he toured America. Surprisingly, its title is 'Stephen Fry in America' available here on YT. They're 1 hour episodes so, perhaps not reaction worthy for you, but a great watch! Check out at least one. 😁
23:25 There was an analogy on this that was a bit more fleshed out: Philosophy is like being in a dark room looking for a black cat. Science is like being in a dark room looking for a black cat using a torch. Metaphysics is like being in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there. Religion is like being in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there and shouting "I found it!"
Spotlight just barely scratches the surface. To date there are hundreds of thousands of survivors of such vile acts committed by clergy of the Roman Catholic Church worldwide. If you take the French independent report for example, it found 330,000 throughout the course of 70 years or 1 every 1hr 51 mins everyday for 25,550 days. In the United States, only a handful of States have done their own independent investigations. Personally knowing what I know, those reports shouldn't be just concerning one religious organization over that of another but all of them.
An atheist was debating with the Pope. After many hours the Pope said in frustration "the trouble with you is you are like a blind man in a cellar looking for a black cat that isn't there" and the atheist responds "we are almost alike, you are like a blind man in a cellar looking for a black cat that isn't there, the difference is you've found it".
Fairdos, Joel and Arturo, you both have very good attitudes, you’ll go far in life. You’ll always have your attitudes and extend upon them, just keep up the studies.
I think the baby case was one where a child dies before being baptized. Rule used to be only the baptized go to heaven. So if your child died before baptism, say in childbirth, its sent to either hell, or limbo/purgatory. In other words left to suffer for eternity for something that wasnt its fault.
Let's not blame celibacy for child abuse. The fact is the people that want to harm children are attracted to the priesthood, where they have full access without fear of consequences
Just because "it's just a theory" gets used a lot as an "argument", in a scientific context, a theory is something that explains a set of facts or observations. It's not just an idea that's been come up with out of nowhere. A good theory will explain all the facts we have, a bad theory will only explain some of the facts we have. For example evolution via heritable traits and natural selection explains all the facts we have about the diversity of living things, creationism doesn't.
I’m a 48 year old Swedish woman, a mother of two teenage boys and a teacher, and I cannot tell you how much I appreciate watching two young, intelligent men listen and talk about real issues in the world. Bravo 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻!
I like the guys in the video but to call them intelligent after listening and reacting to Stephen Fry is like comparing Albert Einstein to Graham Hancock. Well done for being a woman, Swedish a mother of at least two, do you have any daughters?
alright, i jumped the gun a little. They did appreciate "The Fry" as much as I had hoped. Oh and by the way, I am a English man, a father of one daughter (12) ive raised her as a single father since she was 5, and I am an event manager
@@beaverking69are you Schizophrenic? Having a full convo with yourself
omg
I know that, its my drunken sense of humour, I am not single, my partner an I just do not live together@@beccawoodhouse
From one gay boy to another, I bloody love Stephen Fry. He’s restrained, yet acerbic, barbed, and considered in what he says. He’s a fantastic human. He’s a dude! 👊🏻
Is Jps the other gay lad or is it Stephen Fry? 😂
He is a total dude
@@FahadAyaz 😂 I’m on about me and Stephen Fry.. but you knew that really.
@@AledPritchard"from one gay boy to another" I mean if you're the one then who's the other? 🤔 Lol
@@livb6945Dudes can be gay 🤷♂️ Many of them are!
As Voltaire said, ‘Religion was invented when the first fool met the first scoundrel’.
Religion is the equivalent of bottled water.
Didn't he also say something like: 'the subjugation of mankind ends when the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest'? Something like that.
@@sopcannon Where does polluted tap water land? and the corruption that lets it happen? That's where bottled water comes in clutch.
Nope, religions and gods were first invented to explain natural phenomena, storms, rain, sun, night, drought etc. in time as we learned how nature works religions became something else and different, a tool for control and power.
@@takoja507 100% this. It also explains why older religions (now myths) had many gods, and now most religions have one. The further a civilization gets, the fewer gods it needs to explain things. From polytheism, to monotheism. What a strange coincidence.
“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”
― Epicurus
I think adding the time he lived in makes it even more impactful:
~300 *BC*
@emdivine yes it is. He said that before god was invented
@@darrel7382 The Mesha Stele bears the earliest certain extrabiblical reference to the Israelite god Yahweh in 840 BCE. And even before that people had many gods. It doesn't matter which one Epicurus addresses. Religion and gods are always bullshit.
@@Thorium_Th true 👍
@@Thorium_ThNot all Gods are considered all powerful, all loving, all knowing etc. That only happens with monotheisms.
It is so refreshing to witness two young men with such open minds and common sense intellect. Keep it up guys.
The great Irish comedian Dave Allen told the best joke that sums it all up nicely. An atheist and the Pope are discussing religion. The Pope says to the atheist "You are like a blindfolded man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there". The atheist comes back with "You are the same, a blindfolded man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there. The only difference is that you've found it"
Maith an buchaill
Yet, here we all are !
@@dogwithwigwamz.7320 whats that supposed to mean?
@@mats7492 It`s supposed to mean that you exist and that I exist and so does everybody else. It follows that something must exist - unless you can come from nothing. If you can come from nothing then so can I and so can God....
@@dogwithwigwamz.7320 well, i can prove my existence and where i come from (my parents). thousands of years of human civilisation, still zero proof of a god
Stephen Fry is just such an incredibly intelligent, well-educated and articulate person. But he is also passionate and compassionate. And he has the courage to stand up, with well-deserved indignation, and rail against the institutions which have enormous sway and which also do enormous harm. Well done.
That's Ann Widdecombe, that look of sour bitterness is her normal expression
Yep, looks like a bulldog chewing a wasp.
That's right. No lemon sucking for Ms Widdicombe.
She's certainly a very poor example of what Christianity is meant to be. No humility, no compassion, no love.
Indeed. That she should ever have been considered a 'representative of the people' is truly monstrous. 😒
Yeah, she was a right wing MP in Britain. Famously very religious and a virgin. There is a rule of thumb, which is 'what does Ann Widdecombe think?' then you should probably draw the opposite conclusion.
However, she's not all bad. When Widde was an MP, she did seem to take public service seriously. There was a huge MPs expenses scandal in Britain about 15 years ago and she came out of that very well. E.g. She claimed expenses for her mid-range hotel, but paid for her own dinner, while others, on both sides of the political spectrum, were literally claiming expenses to buy second homes.
The two most notorious claims were both from her party though (Conservative Party) - Nadhim Zahawi claimed (*checks internet) £5,822.27 to HEAT HIS STABLES and, my personal favourite, Peter Viggers claimed £1,645 of UK taxpayers money, to build a 'FLOATING DUCK ISLAND'. An architectural triumph, modelled on the Stockholm museums 18th century buildings, but you know, for ducks.
"Science adjusts its views based on what's observed. Faith is the denial of observation so that belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, "Storm".
Tim Minchin - so good! I'd love to see reactions, like Sam's mum, but also fun Cheese!
The question of limbo for babies is based on the older idea that all babies who were not baptised before death went into limbo. Neither heaven or hell. Very distressing for bereaved parents.
This, JP
Yes, according to the church beliefs I was taught in Catholic school prior to the year 2000, we are all born with "original sin", which is absolved when we are baptised. If a child dies before they are baptised, then their soul carries that sin and, without absolution, they may not enter the eternal kingdom of heaven. So many parents grieved for their lost children, who were never allowed into heaven and, therefore, the parents could never reunite with them in the afterlife. What a crock of shit!
As a footnote to the previous posters unbaptised children where not even burried in the graveyard aka hallowed ground.
A concept invented by the church and held as truth for centurys. Dismissed with the stroke of a pen.
@@Damaaskrose One should add however that sincde 2007 the idea of 'limbs' is no longer part of the offical teaching of the Church. it is to be considered as an a quite stupid idea of the past as many otherecclesiastical ideas. Fortunately even the Catholic Chruch experiences its own evolution (cf; homsexuality, heliocentrism etc...)
This guy is one of our national treasures ! He can swing from pure silly comedy like 'Blackadder' and then hold his own with intellectuals of many persuasions = A perfect example of 'A font of knowledge '
The flanders pigeon murderer!!!
One of the best Fry and Blackadder moments!
I would have agreed until the point he spoke very knowingly about a subject I know extremely well (on QI). He got the basics wrong and then just kept digging. Since then, I have taken a spoonful of salt with what he says on subjects I'm not so knowledgeable about.
@@celsus7979hello darling (Darling twitching eye)
@@georgeprout42 Which subject was this? And was this before they found something new out? (Considering "The moon" episodes =)
I love listening to you guys and I love your program. Your program on political correctness was brilliant. Stephen Fry is a World Treasure to say nothing of being a national treasure, he’s been outstanding for years. I just love how you guys engage with these issues and with class acts like Stephen Fry. It just keeps me coming back to your channel and I’m never disappointed. I’m from Australia and 76.🤗
Widdecombe's position during this debate was one of sanctimonious superiority. She positively oozed arrogance and dismissal of any viewpoint other than her own. It was also noticeable that she was less able to engage with the opposing view of the Church, whilst the Bishop was very much aware of the uphill struggle he faced.
widdecombe is a vile individual who does not in any way represent a Christian attitude.
She is a vile person. I don’t like to use that phrase but I cannot stand her.
She also demonstrates a similar `superiority` in her argument for the cessation of the UK from the EU. But she`s not going to suffer by the UK leaving the EU.
In the words of Dara O'Briain - "If science thought it knew everything, it'd stop." When someone claims to have all the answers, the search for further answers ceases - a common problem with all the most narrow-minded people.
Dara *O'Briain*
Thank you - I can never remember the spelling
@@alexandermillman242
I got it right - then wrong - then checked it - then right again so don't worry about it !! 🤔🧡🇮🇪😏🖖
It amazes me how many people refuse to accept unanswerable questions, like they try so hard to give an answer to everything (even without true proof or fact). It's okay to say/hear "I/we don't know"
"That´s not nice"! The most accurate and understated description of an official stance by a church - any church! Carries far more weight of approbation than any swearing, cursing rant could ever do.
Stephen Fry is the definition of an eloquent orator. Also, he’s irreverent and hilarious 🌈🏳️🌈
Perfectly said. I couldn't have said it better myself.
No; I really couldn't!
He is as you say, very eloquent.
He's very clever and funny too.
I love him 😊
Anne Widdicombe (the white woman) used to be an MP (Member of Parliament), and her track record is horrendous. She's against sex education, same sex relationships, teaching girls about their bodies and the changes they'll go through, gay marriage, migration (legal or not). Her and Stephen have been at loggerheads a few times.
You forgot to mention Ann Widdecombe is a Tory, and an "old-fashioned Catholic" too... Which is bad enough but her stance on anything is as you correctly said, is horrendous, old-fashioned...just inconceivably unkind and unfair...
Just unforgivably _unjust_.
such an evil old crone i stg she’s a disgrace to this country
She sounds pretty based
@@lilmoyinyang5812
Did you mean... 'biased' ? 🤔🧡🏴🖖
@@Michael_from_EU_Germany I can't remember the exact part of the book, but she reminds me of Carrie's mother.
Limbo, in Catholic theology, was believed to be the border place between heaven and hell where those souls who died without being baptised, though not condemned to punishment, were deprived of eternal happiness with God in heaven. And sadly if I am not mistaken, its something the Church came with around the 13th century... And for all his time the doctrine was that an infant even if without sin dies before being baptised will go to Limbo (for all eternity). Stephen Fry is such a pleasure and a privilege to listen to...
13:20 the concept of original sin and not being baptised yet.
So if a baby dies at birth stillborn or soon thereafter SIDS sudden infant death syndrome , then the baby doesn't go to heaven :-(
Never mind that is probably the Most Traumatic event in a mother's (and fathers) life. When the parents need comfort and consoling the most. Knowing their child is safe in heaven with other deceased relatives would be at least some comfort
Part of it too was the paying of indulgences. The Church exploited the fear of the loved ones of unbaptised people (specifically infants) by selling them "penances". The payments-from people who were often poor-were to absolve a past sin, or to have their baby or loved one released from purgatory/limbo. But it wasn't a one-time payment. They could go on for years and years.
Mr fry to us is almost a institution himself, a guy many turn to for honest and eloquent answers to so many things , a true British legend
Almost...? 🤔
Hey Joel, that whole debate with Fry and Hitchens on the Catholic Church is worth watching. At 2 hours, it’s not a good candidate for a reaction video unless severely cut, but just to see the amazing arguments on both sides develop and then ultimately conclude is inspiring, both intellectually and morally. It’s 2 hours of your life very well spent. Nothing wrong with filming a reaction then seeing if you can edit it down to something watchable. If not, you’ll still gain the enlightenment from watching the debate in its entirety.
For Arturo, limbo in Catholic doctrine is a place on the edge of Hell where the souls of babies who die before being baptised go, for eternity. An unspeakably cruel and manipulative device designed to scare parents into baptising their infant children into the Church at the earliest opportunity, on pain of eternal torture for the most innocent of souls. Of course it only works on parents who have themselves been indoctrinated into these evil myths in the first place.
Even though I'm on the other side, I almost felt sorry for those arguing that the church was a force for good. It was at the level of "Stop hitting them, they are already dead."
Good call!
@@donkfail1 At the end there were still 34 undecided and 268 who still think its a force for good.
Don't stop hitting.
It is a terrible corrupt organisation.
@@stephenlee5929 Sure, but a lot of them were grownups who had been Catholics for life. It's impressive to just make a few of those think "Maybe I've been wrong all this time." with just a couple of speeches.
But I agree. We shouldn't stop until everyone starts thinking for themselves.
If there is 1 person you dont want to get in to an argument with is Stephen Fry
I would also add Jordan Peterson as well.
"they want a reaction so bad" you kids are ok, you ask the right questions and you walk out of the right conflicts. The future looks bright
The woman on the panel in Ann Widdecombe. She is a former Conservative MP and now a member of Brexit Party. She loves to talk through other people's speech while she cannot bear to be interrupted. She's barking mad.
Yes, I was going to explain who Ann Widdecombe is, but you have said it perfectly. 👍
Watching the two of you responding and discussing this in a mature and reasonable way gives me hope for the future. Well done lads you did an amazing job.
Hi Joel and friend.
I'm 67yo.
I love utube partly because,against all the evidence,I can see so much goodness in our fabulous world.
And you (both)are part of it.
A thought from Manchester UK.
It doesn’t take too long listening to Stephen Fry to feel your brain has a long way to go.
I have watched that entire debate, including the presentations by both sides. The late Mr. Hitchens and Stephen Fry spoke after the proponents for the Roman Catholics Church and were so obviously prepared to dismiss the sanctimonious bullshit they had presented. Good on them!
For the intelligent but funny side of Stephen Fry, I recommend you check out the long-running British panel show, "QI". Lots of science and historical facts, and hysterical laughter! Cheers!
Excellent recommendation - QI with Fry as host, and a great list of guests.
Christopher Hitchens was not a Dr., he didn't have a doctorate. If you thought so on the basis of him being a visiting professor, many institutions will accept an undergraduate degree, as Hitch had.
@Dr.Ian-Plect Thank you for your polite comment; many would not have been so kind! I will correct my error immediately.
@@carolmurphy7572 No problem, just stick an s on Hitchen and I won't hunt you down!
@@Dr.Ian-Plect Oh dear! I'll do that immediately after I wipe the egg from my face. Haha! Thanks again!
Apart from everything else, his use of English is amazing as well. I will always be grateful to my English teacher who pointed him out to me. I instantly fell in love with everything he did and said. He's witty, clever, funny, intelligent, kind.. anything you could wish for.
Stephen Fry, one of our national treasures ❤❤❤
As was Oscar Wilde 130 years back (Who Fry has depicted on film and he feels more than a little rapport with). However, at the peak of his fame, Wilde was disgraced and imprisoned, sentenced to hard labour and died within a few years of his release in 1897, from injuries sustained in prison, separated from his family, in poverty in France. For many decades afterward his brilliant books and plays were not published or performed and his reputation was in tatters, scapegoated and his name was used as an object for public hate and derision right up until modern times in Britain.
Wilde is buried at Père Lachaise cemetary in Paris, many visit it almost as a pilgrimage to one of our brightest and wittiest men. I found reading the inscription (and graffiti) on the beautiful tomb to be a very emotional experience. One French commentator at the time of his death said something like 'In France we revere our great writers. In Britain they put them in prison'.
He really is,,,🌸🇬🇧
Yeah, in the same way Phillip Schofield is.
@@MattyEngland
I take it you're being facetious?
@@brigidsingleton1596 He's a rich and privileged 70 year old man, who likes dating 18 Yr old boys!
Stephen Fry is known all across Europe for his books, documentaries, comedy and movies. I guess in the USA he might be known for his role in V for Vendetta. I will always be grateful for his brilliant and honest documentary about bipolarity. (Secret life of the manic depressive)
Obviously his debates with many famous atheist like his friend Hitchens are incredibly enjoyable and informative.
The whole discussion - Whittecombe and Bishop Onaiyekan vs Fry and Hitchens - is just a fascinating watch.
Although it wasn't really a discussion... the Bishop and Ann got absolutely eviscerated by the powerhouse that was the Fry-Hitchens teamup.
Stephen Fry is my favourite Englishman, a gentleman and a scholar
I love how each point causes half the audience to applaud and the other half to fold their arms! LOL
Thankyou Stephen fry for being unapologetic in your calm and factual contribution to changing the world ..
I aspire to be like you and continue to believe in a moral compass and speak passionately of it. I hope that I can inspire our future generations as you do …..❤
FUN FACT - Anne Widdecombe's brother Maclom Widdecombe was a Priest, he was vehemently opposed to women becoming priests and worked with a vicar who was approved by a bishop to have a sex change.
I totally agree with Fry a Church of England sent to Catholic School, who asked questions and said what i thought and was banned from Religious classes for my school life. How can a compassionate god kill children, cause such suffering, cause cruelty
The baby thing at 13:05: parents were told for eons that if their baby died before being baptized that their soul would neither go to heaven or hell, the soul would stay in limbo. Which was of course distressing for the religious faithful parents. Funnily enough parents could buy eternal peace for those baby souls. If they’d cash up the priest could make it so that the soul would be saved from limbo. Which is an especially cruel cash grab when you think about the infant mortality rate in the olden times when babies would regularly die shortly after being born.
Stephen is now the Host Of Jeopardy in the UK and is killing it he's just so lovely with the Contestants!
I've been enjoying it. It's certainly at a more relaxed pace but he seems invested.
He's probably hoping to groom their grandsons
The woman on the panel is Ann Widercombe, who used to be a Conservative MP (Member of Parliament) and held positions in the Conservative Party cabinet for many years. She’s holds very right-wing views, had continually voted against LGBT rights (including equal age of consent, same-sex marriage - and she supported Section 28) and is against the rights for a woman to choose to have an abortion.
A delightful woman! (Yes, I’m being sarcastic)
Shes also a self confessed virgin who believes in celibacy, why she looked so pissed when Fry was talking shit about it
" very right wing views " lol you mean she holds standard conservative views and your failings as a citizen cannot handle anything in life without having to label it because you have not the guts to be honest with yourself. The are many like you.
Great women 😁👍
Hope your not sarcastic
A woman of great intelligence whose scorned & broken heart had her dedicate a life for god and her country. I have not the moral right to be sarcastic. No one has. And to see lesser people make fun of her because of her looks and not her brain, really irked me. @@MihaiRoman.
I'm not at all concerned with her looks, however I find her views repulsive in the extreme, whatever her qualifications.
Thank you, what an absolute gem: both S. Fry's acerbic brilliance and your thoughtful reflections.
If/when you meet someone questioning the value of intelligent debate, voting, etc., show them the before and after at 25:00.
13:22 Steven talked about "Limbo" & the church teaching that unbaptized babies & children burn in hell for ever.
That was "LImbo of the Infants" or in other words complete morally bankrupt bullshit.
Limbo is a place between Heaven and Hell but still an abomination.
Stephen is an international treasure. A good egg.
Stephen Fry is awsome. Hes super clever, very articulate and sound. Love him.
The most concise and humane religious teaching I've ever encountered, comes from Bill and Ted... "Be Excellent to each other". That's all there is to it, really.
Yes, and they were just paraphrasing Jesus, who said it first in Matt 22.39
5867 The only difference being that Bill and Ted definitely exist, and they are not just a fairytale.
@@garlichr Amazing how you elevate a Hollywood film over the oldest collection of books in the world, that, as well as other texts give us Jesus Christ....cos interestingly, it's Jesus that is triggering to people, not the bible.
It's not the oldest collection of books in the world. Educate yourself.
These 2 saw Anne Widecombe for a few seconds and basically summed her up perfectly 😂
If only her constituency had been so perceptive...
The “limbo” reference is about the fact that doctrine states that if a child passed away before it is baptised or christened it’s soul will forever remain in limbo and never be allowed into the gates of heaven. So this can destroy a follower of the religion if their child died during childbirth or at the hospital or in a car accident I. The way to the church to partake in the ceremony. To put believers through that is unforgivable.
You two guys are a breath of fresh air. I was raised in the church (protestant not catholic). I met some wonderful people but I met a lot more people who were total hypocrites. I have no doubt that there are some wonderful people who do their best to live a christian life .but there are far too many who aren't prepared to own their failings. Quite a few years ago there was a big community campaign where the buzz phrase was "not perfect, just forgiven". So many seemed to use that as an excuse for not even trying.
Please keep up the great work guys. Thank you.
God's not changing the rules,humans are...
What a bright star you are Joel...
...shine on,shout loud.
From England.
I’m a scientist who used to be so deep in religion that I was a preacher (not an ordained minister, admittedly) and did missionary work. I know both sides of this coin quite well. Stephen Fry is brilliant and effectively spot on about everything.
Loved your reaction. Stephen Fry is amazing, intelligent and is so articulate.
There was a movie a few years back which was a (not that good) biopic of Oscar Wilde. Stephen Fry was cast in the lead role, and it was an inspired choice. Fry's wit, humour, and devastating ability to speak about just about any subject makes his as near a modern equivalent of Wilde as you're likely to get. He's hilarious when doing comedy, and thoroughly thought-provoking when he's being serious.
Joel ,there was a vote taken among the public a few years ago asking people who they would most like to invite to dinner and Stephen Fry came out head and shoulders above any other person 🇬🇧
One of the philosophical razors I subscribe to is Hitchings Razor - That which can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.
The other one I most follow is Occam’s Razor - The solution that requires the fewest assumptions is most likely to be correct.
I like Hanlon’s razor: “Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity”
@@JuyoNi yes, it’s the ‘never’ in the axiom that doesn’t sit right with me. One can be both stupid and malicious. They are not mutually exclusive.
You guys are a shining light for all young people today. There maybe hope for us all yet. ❤
No words to describe admiration I have for Stephen Fry. So intelligent and such a thoroughly decent human being. Also helps that I agree with everything he says! 😊 As for Ann widdecombe. Can only say...typical Tory!
plus.. Ann Widdecombe .. a typical old-fashioned Catholic Tory...😠😡
You sound like one of those people who still don't get it that all political parties are the same people behind the scenes. You've never lived in a democracy your entire life, just the illusion of one 🙄 Please wake up.
The abhorrent confidence of religious people is detrimental, to put it lightly. This was such a refreshing watch. Stephen Fry is one of the only people I’d consider to be a role model. An absolute intellectual beacon in the modern world.
Great video, Stephen Fry is a blessing to the world, a pleasure to spend time in his company, and both of yours.
Why Catholic priests are celebrate: According to Jason Berry of The New York Times, "The requirement of celibacy is not dogma; it is an ecclesiastical law that was adopted in the Middle Ages because Rome was worried that clerics' children would inherit church property and create dynasties."
Arturo nailed it! Anne Widdicombe IS super close minded 😂
Loved your comments, you are both enlightened and thoughtful. Thank you
So hard to watch I was bullied and then as an adult abused and beaten in the 90s and 00s its so sad to watch. I have to admit he is much more intelligent than I am but he is a clear winner with this speech.
I love this line from Dara O'Brien (a joke, responding to 'Science doesn't know everything' argument):
"Well science knows it doesn't know everything, otherwise it would stop"
9:08 I remember religious zealots at the London Pride Parade reading out Bible verses like let us have one day to ourselves. God forbid we celebrate something.
I bet they didn’t mention not wearing mixed cloth in the same verse either. Or selling your daughter to be a sex slave? No just what suits
I'm excited that you boys question. I love that you embrace free thinking.
Thanks for staying intellectually curious :)
As for Jordan Peterson what he was saying resonated with me at first but the more I heard from him I realized it was mostly word sallad and that part where he had me interested and onboard turned out not to be an accurate representation of reality (his going against "forced speech" look into what those law amendments actually state and you'll see just how wrong he was on those points).
Take care!
I always loved the phrase, it’s better to have questions you can’t answer than answers you can’t question
LOVE that. I've never heard it before ! 😊
I detest religious fundamentalists whether christian, muslim, hindu etc etc. No one religion has the right to dictate their theology onto people. No one religion is the "only" one or the "right" one.
Stephen Fry is a lovely human being.
Generally, they all claim to be the only true religion, so if any is correct the others can not be.
“No one religion has the right to dictate their theology onto people.No one religion is the “only”one or the right one.”
You are making a truth claim that dictates your theology,why have you the right to make the claim while the Christian cannot claim there is only one true faith?
America needs more people like these young men, all is not lost for America with young people like this.
"It isn't nice." Was the simple truth of it.
I’m late 30,s from Britain and I think it’s awesome that you guys are educating yourselves and are open to facts as they present themselves to you, I wish more people in the world used their brains with a kind spirit and the world would be so much better in my humble opinion, much love ❤️
Hello Joel and pal. Keep those minds open. I could not help but think of the origins of "The Troubles". When hate takes over you end up with situations like having to check deliveries and under the car for bombs, like when I was a kid in UK, because of my dad's job.
So refreshing to hear you too speaking so logically and openly about this topic. Loved it
That was a brilliant video JPS. You young guys give me hope for the future. Your future. Just bloody brilliant. Take care both of you. Steve. UK.
For hundreds of years the church told women that their babies who died before being baptised were forever to be in purgatory, also women who died in childbirth weren't allowed to be buried within consecrated ground. The women and children were treated as dirty and unworthy, the same as people who committed sins such as suicide, the church refused to recognise their faith and loyalty.
Well done you guys. Too bad Hitchens is gone but fortunately we still have Fry!! I'm surprised with the revelations from Hubble and JWST that cosmology isn't playing a larger role in the overall discussion. Good choice Joel and Arturo! John
I was listening to an audiobook, it might have been one of Stephen's, and they said something like "Just because of the amount of pain and suffering that is in our world I don't believe there is a god. But there should be."
You guys are a cool duo. I love your conversations and the respect you have
Glad to see you back reacting to the wonderful Stephen Fry. Yes you are right, in the UK he's is a certified national treasure ❤
Always a delight to listen to Stephen Fry, I thoroughly enjoy his intellect. It is also a delight to see you two young men actively involved . Keep up the good work JP. I have been dropping in on you for some time now and am so pleased you are looking at this.
Good on you both. I thoughoughly enjoyed watching you two young men broaching a subject such as this. Academic, balanced debate is so necessary. Keep those young minds open, be true too yourself and enjoy your journey. 🌻
No problem. We can do that. 👍
I'm so glad to see you young guys reacting to this in such a logical, reasoning way - I lost my 21 year old daughter to ovarian cancer two years ago and Stephen Fry's statement about god giving children bone cancer really resonates with me. Religion, and their god, are evil.
Your admission ‘I don’t know …….’ is an honest reaction and a healthy one when dealing with such complex subjects: keep being true to yourself in this way until you find an answer that satisfies you - but always be open to revision and change.
i'm a 65 yr old welshman and Petra has said everything that i was about to say, so keep up the good work ,you and your friends seem to be tuned in to life. there are a few American reacts type things but you are my favourite
Something I enjoyed with Steven Fry, was a 6 part series where he toured America. Surprisingly, its title is 'Stephen Fry in America' available here on YT. They're 1 hour episodes so, perhaps not reaction worthy for you, but a great watch! Check out at least one. 😁
Your a joy to watch, so refreshing to see young guys interested in the world how it works, keep it up!!
Listening to these young people, our future suddenly feels a little better again.
23:25
There was an analogy on this that was a bit more fleshed out:
Philosophy is like being in a dark room looking for a black cat.
Science is like being in a dark room looking for a black cat using a torch.
Metaphysics is like being in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there.
Religion is like being in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there and shouting "I found it!"
Joel - you should listen to the Pope song by Tim Minchin.....
Word…
And 'The Good Book'
There is a full version of that video on UA-cam, also Hitchins is amazing, if not even more than Fry.
6:28 There’s a movie called ‘Spotlight’. That’s all I’m going to say.
Spotlight just barely scratches the surface. To date there are hundreds of thousands of survivors of such vile acts committed by clergy of the Roman Catholic Church worldwide. If you take the French independent report for example, it found 330,000 throughout the course of 70 years or 1 every 1hr 51 mins everyday for 25,550 days. In the United States, only a handful of States have done their own independent investigations. Personally knowing what I know, those reports shouldn't be just concerning one religious organization over that of another but all of them.
An atheist was debating with the Pope. After many hours the Pope said in frustration "the trouble with you is you are like a blind man in a cellar looking for a black cat that isn't there" and the atheist responds "we are almost alike, you are like a blind man in a cellar looking for a black cat that isn't there, the difference is you've found it".
Fairdos, Joel and Arturo, you both have very good attitudes, you’ll go far in life. You’ll always have your attitudes and extend upon them, just keep up the studies.
I think the baby case was one where a child dies before being baptized. Rule used to be only the baptized go to heaven. So if your child died before baptism, say in childbirth, its sent to either hell, or limbo/purgatory. In other words left to suffer for eternity for something that wasnt its fault.
Bill Hicks has some great bits on God, his "trickster god" line being particularly enjoyable.
Let's not blame celibacy for child abuse. The fact is the people that want to harm children are attracted to the priesthood, where they have full access without fear of consequences
This is what maxed-out Charisma looks like on someone with a soul.
Just because "it's just a theory" gets used a lot as an "argument", in a scientific context, a theory is something that explains a set of facts or observations. It's not just an idea that's been come up with out of nowhere. A good theory will explain all the facts we have, a bad theory will only explain some of the facts we have. For example evolution via heritable traits and natural selection explains all the facts we have about the diversity of living things, creationism doesn't.
Great reaction guys!👍🏼 Top draw!!!
The baby thing was about how your baby is going to hell because it wasn't baptised yet. Imagine telling that to a family who lost a child?
Joel , you prob. know but Stephen Fry is also an actor and was great / very funny in " Black Adder " just so funny.
Good stuff guys. Keep learning, thinking and laughing. It’s a crazy planet
Love Stephen Fry in everything he does and says ❤❤🇬🇧🇬🇧