Great content! I recently felt something in my joint click while using pockets and it’s been inflamed and reduced the mobility. This is the first place I’ve heard this type of finger injury discussed. After using a massage ring on the finger it softens things up and helps me get full rang of motion in the pip joint. Thanks for the great content.
Yeah. I've been climbing with some non-specific joint pain & stiffness for 6 months now, which is slowly getting better. My physio recommended light joint stretching for a few minutes a day which seems to help a lot. But it's great to get some more info, have found very very little online otherwise.
Just found this, and it's perfect timing! Saw my physio yesterday for a pulley strain, but he wasn't confident about prescribing rehab. He said these injuries are just not seen in the general public. So this has been super helpful!
Thank you so much for this video!! Im a new climber and continue to have vague discomfort/pain and stiffness in my fingers and everything I found on Google was article after article about pulley injuries but it just didn't seem right. Its obvious from the video it's joint irritation and I can start icing and doing the tendon slides and working on getting that range of motion back! I will share this with my other new climber friends
Just realised i might have a joint soreness instead of a pulley strain since I can't exactly pinpoint the area. I also can't do the full range of motion with the fingers on that hand. Very insightful, thanks!
Hmmm, at 31:00 you talk about range of movement and that's exactly what has happened to my ring finger after a few months of regular climbing. Good to know it's not super serious and there's something I can do about it! Thanks!
I just recently injured my fingers and this video actually made me feel better about my injury. Taking a couple weeks off and will slowly work my way back. Thank you very much for this video.
Great info on the synovitis. I'm struggling to rehab mine, it's super annoying. Is it ok to continue climbing on it or should there be an element of rest?
Very interesting but what I really want to know is how to minimize the risk of getting any of these injuries so maybe some best practice advice and if there are any things to avoid.
Just another amazing content... I was thinking i had a injury in my a4 pulley but now im pretty sure its just a joint issue... But its taking me 4 weeks without any climb training on the wall or fingerboard and im still not recovered... Maybe one more week and ill back slowly to the wall... Cheers for always share knowledges...
I also thought I had a a3 or a4 pulley but his comment about the pain not being very specific in joint pain was spot on my case. May I ask you how did your rehab go afterwards?
the problem with joints and tendons is that bloodflow is limited so fully resting for a few weeks won't help you as they won't get any nutrients to repair the injury. Tendons get their nutrients when you move them. That means if you want to heal, you need to move those joints and tendons as soon as possible once the accute pain has reduced. Start with little to no load on the injured part and use a range of motion so that little to no pain is experienced. Then slowly build up from there. I would never stop for a few weeks after a simple strain. Just deload and tape the finger properly and slowly build back.
@@hyau23 lol, you didnt even finish your thought - and what did he conclude? What method, theory, results did he use or find? You just came to a video and left a half-thought xD
So we agree with Tyler in the sense that high frequency tendon glides (30 reps x 2-3 per day) can potentially further irritate the surfaces of the joint and joint capsule of an already irritated joint. We're more suggesting that you think about them as range of movement exercises. Stiffness in a joint can affect its ability to function so restoring the active and passive movement through these type of exercises can be beneficial, the focus should be on improving the movement rather than just repetitively gliding the fingers. Progressively loading the fingers using a fingerboard is absolutely beneficial with almost all finger injuries however it needs to be done in the correct way, as similarly to these simple finger gliding/range of movement exercises, if done incorrectly it can be detrimental to the injury. Hope that helps!
@@LittleMur410that's much better, now why didn't you say that in the first place? See above for a better explanation that I would have given by Sheffield climbing clinic
This is incredible, a really nice vid. I ruptured an A4 ring finger pulley in December and have really struggled to get info on this. I was becoming very frustrated with the limited info on this type of injury. I was even told i would never be able to climb again by a specialist! :) Any way, no doubt this will become a fantastic starting point for people in similar shoes in the future. Thank you.
😱 yeah the idea of never being able to climb again after a A4 rupture is just not correct. We get most climbers back to full crimping after around 3 months after a A4 rupture. Even in rare cases of multiple pulley ruptures that require surgery (very uncommon thankfully) the climbers are able to get back to climbing. 👍
Is it possible to have a tear or rupture in your A2 without hearing a pop? My ring finger is acting up. At first it was sore to the touch but not while climbing. And now I can not crimp while climbing without pain.
Are there other stretches for treating PIP synovitis? I've been doing tendon glides and have regained my ROM but still have a thickened PIP joint and pain when climbing. Seems to be a never ending cycle, resting to let it cool down and then climbing and getting synovitis again. Great video!
There’s lots of potential factors as to why you might be stuck in this cycle, it’s tricky to know without knowing more information unfortunately. We do find that most PIP issues can be resolved though 👍
I'm pretty convinced I only have swollen and irritated joints, so doing tendon glides is what I'm doing for rehab. But I hear a bit of a clicking (I think it's my tendon?) When I do them in the morning. Do I have an additional injury on top of a swollen joint?
It’s tricky to know the cause of the clicking without an assessment however it could be either coming from the joint itself or could be a condition called trigger finger
I had to stop the climb that I started late (24-25 years old) because for three years I have had joint swelling at the level of the pips of each major visible on the MRI and by ultrasound diagnosed as synovitis ...however despite an ultrasound-guided injection of corticosteroids in each middle finger, the problem never seems to have gone away from my left middle finger and the right one which seemed healed is starting to hurt again after I resumed climbing this year . I have so to speak no more medical follow-up because my official doctor tells me himself that he does not know enough about this field.. so I went "into the hands" of two rheumatologists and several hand specialists. .and the result is not clear. For some, it may result from an inflammatory problem but vague and undefined because everything is OK in rheumatological biology (NSA prescriptions to be taken and bone scan to be done to look for something .....) and for the hand doctors it's purely mechanical (a result of climbing.) but when it comes to the way of dealing with or even knowing if I can still climb or even adopt certain strategies, I haven't learned anything concrete so far. So far I have had various pains which have appeared in both knees, foot and back which suggest an inflammatory problem but nothing on the imaging, no inflammatory schedules or swelling and warmth, only a diagnosis of patellar syndrome for knees. I'm getting a bit saturated in a spiral without a solution where the problems seem to add up as I struggle to practice an activity that does me good at all levels as well as mentally. Inflammatory or not, I have the I feel like my pips don't want to flare up. I am currently in Lyon in France and no real solution. thanks for reading 😉
I've had the dreaded pop from an A4 rupture, but wonder if there are also other causes of quieter less serious pops that can be confused with the pulley rupture pop.
There’s potential that you could have what’s called a joint cavitation where the joint clicks/produces a sound however this wouldn’t produce symptoms at the area of the A4 pulley after so the easiest way to differentiate is to assess what symptoms you get after the pop
Does anyone else experienced a loud pop without a pulley rupture? Are there any other reasons this sound may occur? 2 weeks ago I injured my middle finger during warmup for whatever reason.. I heard a loud pop and immediate soreness in my A4 pulley region. I already had an ultrasonic exam and everything seems fine. I can load my finger to some extend without paint but it does not feel good enough yet to climb. I do some mobility daily and will also see another physiotherapist next week..
Heard a crunch not a pop some slight soreness when I press into the a4 area and some discomfort when I try a half crimp on a surface but not sore generally is this a tear or a strain do you think 🤔
didn't hear anything about ligaments? I recently had an xray on my index finger (last joint) as I thought I has pulled a tendon but the doctor said it looked like a ligament. they x-rayed to see if it had pulled of the bone but it hadn't. Now in a splint but is it worth getting an ultrasound to see what the actual damage is?
Is it common to see a pulley and a joint injury at the same time? Tweaked my middle finger on Sunday. A2 pulley is sore and the second knuckle is super stuff.
It’s common to get associated joint stiffness with a pulley injury. Often the joint isn’t actually injured. It’s important to keep the joint mobile through range of movement exercises whilst the pulley injury heals 👍
I recently heard the infamous pop in my left index. Bit of an odd scenario. Left hand was on a great gaston and it popped when I put all the pressure on it. Maybe I was loading my fingers wrong :/
I feel you, I had a knarly forearm flexor/flexor tendon tear a couple years back, my forearm was bruised from my wrist half way to the elbow and I could find 0 info on rehabing.
Hey my one of my middle finger on my right hand is pointing to the right due to some poorly performed gripper training I did. It was months ago and I just rested it, but every time I try to go do it again, the finger aches again and points to the right, as in being angled to the right where there is blatantly more distance between that middle finger and the index finger compared to the distance between the left hand's middle and index fingers. I already paid way too much just to have it checked by physiotherapists who gave general advice but nothing specific so hopefully you know what I could do, I probably didn't give enough details but I figure you can ask and I'll explain it as best as possible. Would appreciate some method for this. Thanks
Any tips on Hyper Mobile Fingers or Double Jointed Fingers. I find my finger strength to be insanely weak compared to others, and my ability to do crimps while not hyper extending really hard (painful or uncomfortable). All I have found was some posts on Reddit and they aren't that helpful. Cheers!
Hey guys, I've got a quick question about training for power endurance with the crimpd app. If I'm powering out on long routes, I want to work my anaerobic capacity right? Or do I want to work my aerobic power to help balance things out a bit more?
In reality, it'll almost certainly be a blend of both. As you reach failure it's a compound indicator, so in effect, it's not a "single" thing. We can dive in a bit deeper through our assessments (work capacity, aerocap, strength etc) if you need to get a bit more context :-)
For pulley strains I understand the “two weeks off from climbing to start” approach. Advice on what a climber should be doing during those two weeks? Light hangs, bands, finger glides, things like that?
If it’s just a strain then during that period you should be aiming to maintain some of your climbing strength through activities such as pull ups, dumbbell work, core work, TRX as well as optimising the movement of the finger through range of motion exercises or finger glides. Keeping fitness up through other cardio activities and working on flexibility is also useful too. In certain cases, some light hangs are appropriate, but we tend to decide this case by case. Hope that helps!
We do see some extensor finger issues in the clinic such as extensor tendon injury, extensor hood strain or growth plate injuries in youth climbers but just not enough to cover in an over view video like this. More than happy to answer any questions if you want to get in touch 👍
What I want to know is, can you become really strong or a professional climber without ever having joint issues like synovitis? I was talking to another climber and he said it was basically a prerequisite to have synovitis if you want to become really strong or turn professional. Also my ring finger makes a popping sound in the pip joint whenever i fully straighten it out. anyone know what it is? it's painless, just annoying
Long-awaited and much needed video !! Big up Lattice :)
There's another one coming on the same topic more or less! :-)
Great content! I recently felt something in my joint click while using pockets and it’s been inflamed and reduced the mobility. This is the first place I’ve heard this type of finger injury discussed. After using a massage ring on the finger it softens things up and helps me get full rang of motion in the pip joint. Thanks for the great content.
in a few years, this video's gonna have a million views.
Nice to learn about joint irritation and treatment. Great video
Finally some info on PIP synovitis
Yes! I feel this is very overlooked by professionals and they only focus on tendon and pulley injuries
Yeah. I've been climbing with some non-specific joint pain & stiffness for 6 months now, which is slowly getting better. My physio recommended light joint stretching for a few minutes a day which seems to help a lot. But it's great to get some more info, have found very very little online otherwise.
Yes!! Too quick though.. Could have talked a bit more about time frame for recovery, ice bathing and other methods into more details.
As someone with a history of DIP synovitis I would still like to hear about this one. Everything I can find is about PIP.
Top quality video, thanks guys. Would love to see a vid on prevention of finger injuries!
Just found this, and it's perfect timing! Saw my physio yesterday for a pulley strain, but he wasn't confident about prescribing rehab. He said these injuries are just not seen in the general public. So this has been super helpful!
This is so well explained!
Thank you so much for this video!! Im a new climber and continue to have vague discomfort/pain and stiffness in my fingers and everything I found on Google was article after article about pulley injuries but it just didn't seem right. Its obvious from the video it's joint irritation and I can start icing and doing the tendon slides and working on getting that range of motion back! I will share this with my other new climber friends
always a pleasure to listen to a professional. Great video! Great guided too
I am so thankful for injury series. Its so hard to find some information about joint issues.
As someone who heard a "pop" in their finger earlier this week, this is very timely.
Yikes.... well good luck with the recovery. Take it steady and make sure you're super consistent with loading... avoid those spikes!
Same here this past week. It was more like a "clack" sound in my case.
Just realised i might have a joint soreness instead of a pulley strain since I can't exactly pinpoint the area. I also can't do the full range of motion with the fingers on that hand. Very insightful, thanks!
Good video ! It would have been nice though to have visual support / scheme of the anatomy during the explanations.
Hmmm, at 31:00 you talk about range of movement and that's exactly what has happened to my ring finger after a few months of regular climbing. Good to know it's not super serious and there's something I can do about it! Thanks!
Very useful! Would’ve loved to hear about preventive measures for these injuries.
needed this!
Thanks! That was really useful!
Great video thanks very much! Gutted to have injured myself again but really appreciate the content to help get through the time out!
I just recently injured my fingers and this video actually made me feel better about my injury. Taking a couple weeks off and will slowly work my way back. Thank you very much for this video.
Great info on the synovitis. I'm struggling to rehab mine, it's super annoying.
Is it ok to continue climbing on it or should there be an element of rest?
I have join irritation in the PIP,
thanks for the tips!
Very interesting but what I really want to know is how to minimize the risk of getting any of these injuries so maybe some best practice advice and if there are any things to avoid.
This is an excellent and very informative video!
Thank you 🙏
Damn interesting and informative. Thanks James and Lattice!
Just another amazing content... I was thinking i had a injury in my a4 pulley but now im pretty sure its just a joint issue... But its taking me 4 weeks without any climb training on the wall or fingerboard and im still not recovered... Maybe one more week and ill back slowly to the wall... Cheers for always share knowledges...
I also thought I had a a3 or a4 pulley but his comment about the pain not being very specific in joint pain was spot on my case. May I ask you how did your rehab go afterwards?
Would it be possible for James to address exercises or methods to help with finger osteoarthritis in an upcoming episode? Thanks for the great video!
the problem with joints and tendons is that bloodflow is limited so fully resting for a few weeks won't help you as they won't get any nutrients to repair the injury. Tendons get their nutrients when you move them. That means if you want to heal, you need to move those joints and tendons as soon as possible once the accute pain has reduced. Start with little to no load on the injured part and use a range of motion so that little to no pain is experienced. Then slowly build up from there. I would never stop for a few weeks after a simple strain. Just deload and tape the finger properly and slowly build back.
When is the next video coming out? This is some really good content right here :)
Great information. Thanks.
Thx for the great content! 👍
Forward to 28:30
Tyler Nelson has argued tendon glides are not that beneficial for healing the finger joints and recommended use of fingerboard instead
and?
@@LittleMur410 wow, you must have really good conversations with people in real life...
@@hyau23 lol, you didnt even finish your thought - and what did he conclude? What method, theory, results did he use or find? You just came to a video and left a half-thought xD
So we agree with Tyler in the sense that high frequency tendon glides (30 reps x 2-3 per day) can potentially further irritate the surfaces of the joint and joint capsule of an already irritated joint. We're more suggesting that you think about them as range of movement exercises. Stiffness in a joint can affect its ability to function so restoring the active and passive movement through these type of exercises can be beneficial, the focus should be on improving the movement rather than just repetitively gliding the fingers.
Progressively loading the fingers using a fingerboard is absolutely beneficial with almost all finger injuries however it needs to be done in the correct way, as similarly to these simple finger gliding/range of movement exercises, if done incorrectly it can be detrimental to the injury.
Hope that helps!
@@LittleMur410that's much better, now why didn't you say that in the first place? See above for a better explanation that I would have given by Sheffield climbing clinic
Great content! Next video yesterday please 😜
can you please do another one of these but for wrist injuries?
This is incredible, a really nice vid. I ruptured an A4 ring finger pulley in December and have really struggled to get info on this. I was becoming very frustrated with the limited info on this type of injury. I was even told i would never be able to climb again by a specialist! :) Any way, no doubt this will become a fantastic starting point for people in similar shoes in the future. Thank you.
😱 yeah the idea of never being able to climb again after a A4 rupture is just not correct. We get most climbers back to full crimping after around 3 months after a A4 rupture. Even in rare cases of multiple pulley ruptures that require surgery (very uncommon thankfully) the climbers are able to get back to climbing. 👍
Hey, would you mind sharing how your rehab went?
did you guys ever do a part 2 for this?
Is it possible to have a tear or rupture in your A2 without hearing a pop? My ring finger is acting up. At first it was sore to the touch but not while climbing. And now I can not crimp while climbing without pain.
This is very helpful! (also i want those khaki orange pants)
Might have helped to have some basic descriptive diagrams to accompany the discussion! I like the detail though, much appreciated :)
Are there other stretches for treating PIP synovitis? I've been doing tendon glides and have regained my ROM but still have a thickened PIP joint and pain when climbing. Seems to be a never ending cycle, resting to let it cool down and then climbing and getting synovitis again. Great video!
There’s lots of potential factors as to why you might be stuck in this cycle, it’s tricky to know without knowing more information unfortunately. We do find that most PIP issues can be resolved though 👍
I'm pretty convinced I only have swollen and irritated joints, so doing tendon glides is what I'm doing for rehab. But I hear a bit of a clicking (I think it's my tendon?) When I do them in the morning. Do I have an additional injury on top of a swollen joint?
It’s tricky to know the cause of the clicking without an assessment however it could be either coming from the joint itself or could be a condition called trigger finger
I had to stop the climb that I started late (24-25 years old) because for three years I have had joint swelling at the level of the pips of each major visible on the MRI and by ultrasound diagnosed as synovitis ...however despite an ultrasound-guided injection of corticosteroids in each middle finger, the problem never seems to have gone away from my left middle finger and the right one which seemed healed is starting to hurt again after I resumed climbing this year . I have so to speak no more medical follow-up because my official doctor tells me himself that he does not know enough about this field.. so I went "into the hands" of two rheumatologists and several hand specialists. .and the result is not clear. For some, it may result from an inflammatory problem but vague and undefined because everything is OK in rheumatological biology (NSA prescriptions to be taken and bone scan to be done to look for something .....) and for the hand doctors it's purely mechanical (a result of climbing.) but when it comes to the way of dealing with or even knowing if I can still climb or even adopt certain strategies, I haven't learned anything concrete so far. So far I have had various pains which have appeared in both knees, foot and back which suggest an inflammatory problem but nothing on the imaging, no inflammatory schedules or swelling and warmth, only a diagnosis of patellar syndrome for knees. I'm getting a bit saturated in a spiral without a solution where the problems seem to add up as I struggle to practice an activity that does me good at all levels as well as mentally. Inflammatory or not, I have the I feel like my pips don't want to flare up. I am currently in Lyon in France and no real solution. thanks for reading 😉
I've had the dreaded pop from an A4 rupture, but wonder if there are also other causes of quieter less serious pops that can be confused with the pulley rupture pop.
There’s potential that you could have what’s called a joint cavitation where the joint clicks/produces a sound however this wouldn’t produce symptoms at the area of the A4 pulley after so the easiest way to differentiate is to assess what symptoms you get after the pop
Hey, would you mind sharing how your rehab went?
Does anyone else experienced a loud pop without a pulley rupture? Are there any other reasons this sound may occur? 2 weeks ago I injured my middle finger during warmup for whatever reason.. I heard a loud pop and immediate soreness in my A4 pulley region. I already had an ultrasonic exam and everything seems fine. I can load my finger to some extend without paint but it does not feel good enough yet to climb. I do some mobility daily and will also see another physiotherapist next week..
being suffering from synovitis for 6 month already. I would rather had a pulley injury instead. Synovitis doesn't appear to heal for me
Same here 🙋🏻
Heard a crunch not a pop some slight soreness when I press into the a4 area and some discomfort when I try a half crimp on a surface but not sore generally is this a tear or a strain do you think 🤔
didn't hear anything about ligaments? I recently had an xray on my index finger (last joint) as I thought I has pulled a tendon but the doctor said it looked like a ligament. they x-rayed to see if it had pulled of the bone but it hadn't. Now in a splint but is it worth getting an ultrasound to see what the actual damage is?
Is it common to see a pulley and a joint injury at the same time? Tweaked my middle finger on Sunday. A2 pulley is sore and the second knuckle is super stuff.
It’s common to get associated joint stiffness with a pulley injury. Often the joint isn’t actually injured. It’s important to keep the joint mobile through range of movement exercises whilst the pulley injury heals 👍
My fingers hurt after listening to that!!
I recently heard the infamous pop in my left index. Bit of an odd scenario. Left hand was on a great gaston and it popped when I put all the pressure on it. Maybe I was loading my fingers wrong :/
Another video, about pulleys... Had lots of problems with flexor tendons, mainly in the hand, but there's not much to find about that anywhere.
I feel you, I had a knarly forearm flexor/flexor tendon tear a couple years back, my forearm was bruised from my wrist half way to the elbow and I could find 0 info on rehabing.
Cool video, maybe some pictures would have been helpful
Talk about wrists next!
Hey my one of my middle finger on my right hand is pointing to the right due to some poorly performed gripper training I did. It was months ago and I just rested it, but every time I try to go do it again, the finger aches again and points to the right, as in being angled to the right where there is blatantly more distance between that middle finger and the index finger compared to the distance between the left hand's middle and index fingers.
I already paid way too much just to have it checked by physiotherapists who gave general advice but nothing specific so hopefully you know what I could do, I probably didn't give enough details but I figure you can ask and I'll explain it as best as possible. Would appreciate some method for this.
Thanks
Any tips on Hyper Mobile Fingers or Double Jointed Fingers. I find my finger strength to be insanely weak compared to others, and my ability to do crimps while not hyper extending really hard (painful or uncomfortable). All I have found was some posts on Reddit and they aren't that helpful. Cheers!
Hi, does h taping help during the immobilisation phase, immediately after a (A4) pulley rupture, or is it just for climbing?
Hey, would you mind sharing how your rehab went?
Hey guys, I've got a quick question about training for power endurance with the crimpd app. If I'm powering out on long routes, I want to work my anaerobic capacity right? Or do I want to work my aerobic power to help balance things out a bit more?
In reality, it'll almost certainly be a blend of both. As you reach failure it's a compound indicator, so in effect, it's not a "single" thing. We can dive in a bit deeper through our assessments (work capacity, aerocap, strength etc) if you need to get a bit more context :-)
Collateral ligament in the next video please
We talk about collateral ligament injuries in part 2 so keep an eye out for that 👍
For pulley strains I understand the “two weeks off from climbing to start” approach. Advice on what a climber should be doing during those two weeks? Light hangs, bands, finger glides, things like that?
If it’s just a strain then during that period you should be aiming to maintain some of your climbing strength through activities such as pull ups, dumbbell work, core work, TRX as well as optimising the movement of the finger through range of motion exercises or finger glides. Keeping fitness up through other cardio activities and working on flexibility is also useful too. In certain cases, some light hangs are appropriate, but we tend to decide this case by case. Hope that helps!
You could go for a hike. Eat an orange, sing a song
@@iangleaves hahahaha, underrated comment this one :-D
Too bad there isn't too much to find about those rare extensor finger problems.
We do see some extensor finger issues in the clinic such as extensor tendon injury, extensor hood strain or growth plate injuries in youth climbers but just not enough to cover in an over view video like this.
More than happy to answer any questions if you want to get in touch 👍
Who else is watching this next to a google image of "hand anatomy" ? :)
had an injury by being dumb during a warm up and thought it was a pulley. Good to know it was probably just a strain
What I want to know is, can you become really strong or a professional climber without ever having joint issues like synovitis? I was talking to another climber and he said it was basically a prerequisite to have synovitis if you want to become really strong or turn professional.
Also my ring finger makes a popping sound in the pip joint whenever i fully straighten it out. anyone know what it is? it's painless, just annoying
We are the ape that propels itself by walking and running. There is a remnant instinct to climb. Problematic.