Woodworking Fact or Fiction! Do Zero Clearance Table Saw Inserts Make Better Cuts?
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- Опубліковано 8 вер 2024
- In my first episode of woodworking fact or fiction, we're going to look at zero clearance table saw inserts.
There is a long-held belief that zero clearance throat plates in tables saws give better cuts because they reduce tearout on the bottom side of the cut - I decided to put this to the test to see if it made any difference - the results, minimal at best.
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Very interesting test. I've been making ZCI's so long it never occurred to me to question their efficacy, so thanks for thinking out of the box. Don't non-carbide tooth blades have some tooth set? The dramatic difference in cut quality of a typical North American circ saw and a Festool tracksaw, whether ripping or crosscutting, is due mostly to the zero clearance features of the Festool track and saw I assume, so it seems intuitively that the same would apply to table saw cuts. Of course (as others here mention), not getting thin strips down in the saw or blocking dust collection is sufficient reason to use ZCI's.
Thank you for clearly and elegantly explaining what these are about.
One of the main uses of zero clearance inserts I would assume is safety? I use them on my router table so that nothing gets down between the tool and the insert. This however was a very useful exercise and providing the teeth are sharp and in good shape generally, shows the worth of making zero clearance inserts. Interesting as ever Colin. Regards.
I agree, the main reason I use Zero clearance plates on my table saw is for really thin cutoffs. it keeps things from falling down beside the blade. for tear-out prevention I use a layer or two of blue tape. I have also found that the colder and drier it is in the shop the more likely tearout is.
It's wasn't that long ago that quality blades were out of the reach of most hobby woodworkers, so zero clearance inserts did help with tear-out of lower quality blades.
A great video. I made and used a ZCI for ripping very thin pieces from wider boards for making strip canoes. More for safety then to prevent tear out. I did see where using a ZCI helped prevent(reduce) tear out when cutting plywood.
Thanks for taking the time and effort to show us the differences. Great job... Well done and very informative.
That was a great test and the results were surprising to me. Thank you!
With a sharp carbide blade there is no need for a zero clearance insert. However, I use one for my blades because I don't want strips of wood sucked down into the saw causing harm.
Summers Woodworking I agree! I noticed a bit of improvement with cuts after making a ZCI, but the main reasons I made one were to provide more support (the stock insert was thin and flimsy) and the close the gap next to the blade.
Summers Woodworking I have seen a definite difference using the same blade (a Freud Fusion Premier), especially when cross-cutting thin veneered plywood. All of his tests were either ripping or a using a grainless material.
Michael Gross like I said sharp... but in a productive shop a zc insert is a must when crosscutting because blades dull and tear out increases. Anyway how anyone puts it. IMO a zc is a great investment and improvement.
Thank you Colin, even the way you present the end of the video is well done, I work with European type sliding saw and it comes with a small second blade that is used to prevent the tear out from the back of the panel, but at home I have done my own zero clearance throte plates, it make a difference.
The results will definitely vary on topics like these depending on a lot of variables. I've just never noticed much of a difference. Thanks for watching!
Excellent work, as usual, Colin.......but you omitted the conclusion in the video! I see it in your comments ("the results, minimal at best"), but surely it deserved saying after all that work?
Rip cuts will rarely tear out. Cross cuts are where you will find tear out.
bingo. now try cross-cutting pine boards or oak plywood.
Great video and well explained Colin!Thanks for taking the time to share the experience!All the best on your projects :)!
Great video. Once I finally buy a table saw I'm going to have to buy the different blade types. Thanks for posting.
Yup, have a good set of different blades is definitely a good choice. Thanks for watching!
Very clear explanation. Thanks Colin for all your videos I have learnt so much from you. John from County Durham England uk
Colin, I appreciate your presentation and your reasoning for using melamine but, most often rip cuts in wood seldom have tear out! Also I would like to see a similar presentation for cross cut using blades made for cross cut in different woods to see if zero clearance plates work there as a backer board and also the benefit of safety with the slim pieces not dropping down between saw blade and saw!
I've always used double-sided tape to lay down a flat board, and raised the blade through it. It's a one-off technique. It doesn't work as well if I try to re-use it.
Bit confused, still learning, thanks for sharing
You are welcome.
It would be more interesting to see the test on cross grain plywood. For crosscut I see a significant difference.
I might do that in a future video. I haven't noticed much for a difference myself. Thanks for watching!
Might give it a go, might help reduce the dust and small pieces falling in. Cheers
You're welcome Mark
That was very interesting, Colin...thanks for doing all of those blade changes for us and making those cuts....bet that took some time..!! The insert that came with my table saw has a significant gap on the side that faces the fence. My saw tilts left...away from the fence...so that's why my gap is on the fence side. Quite often I need to make a handful of thin strips all the same size so I am feeding the wood between the blade and the fence. With the original insert I had a dangerous situation of those thin strips wanting to get pulled down into that gap or get flung up and into the blade...and back at me...both very dangerous. So I made a ZCI and that solved that problem. I had never considered the tear out aspect of a wide-gapped insert....interesting...thanks.
Yes, Zero Clearance Inserts can be a big help when dealing with thin strips. Thanks for watching!
do zero clearance inserts make a difference to dust extraction, help or hinder?
yes they hinder a bit above the saw. unless you have dust extraction above the saw.
Really interesting - I love it when the results debunk commonly-held beliefs! I wonder if you'll get the same results with cross-cuts? But then 95% of my crosscuts are done on a sled, which by definition is zero-clearance. Very important message at the end of you video - test on your own gear too.
Yes, there are just so many variables when doing tests like these. Although these are my results and my experience, others may find that it helps with tear-out.
Thanks Colin. I find all of your videos informative and enjoyable. Keep up the good work. Greetings from Australia
You're welcome. Thanks for watching Robert!
Great video , but even your default insert is more "zero clearance" than most OEM inserts i've seen. I have an older Delta Unisaw , and gaps on each side of the blade are significantly larger. The tearout different is quite noticeable without a zero clearance insert.
Your results may differ, these are just mine. Thanks for watching!
Yes. With the amount of movement your zero clearance had in the video, it wasn't really zero clearance. Also, You would technically need a different zero clearance insert for each blade. Also, inserts made out of wood have a very short lifespan and turn nonzero very quickly. Phenolic would be best. Great video though!
Agreed . I made a perfectly fit oak insert early spring (New England). In the summer I couldn't take it out without opening up the case and banging it from the underside with a mallet. sanded the sides down a little and now in the winter i had to put tape on both sides to stop it from wiggling. Working on some plenolic ones now.
I can see a benefit with the zero clearance as long as you will never make angle cuts, yes, you are correct, zero clearance does not allow for angle cuts. Then again in cabinet working, you very seldom use a table saw for angle cuts.
Thank you Colin. I think we should use zero clearance inserts because it is safe regardless of the cutting quality.
Yes, they do provide some added safety when working with smaller pieces. Thanks for watching Saad!
Well thanks, this helped me decide on a portable saw purchase. Was concerned about the one I was leaning towards because it didn't have a OEM ZC insert available and was told making one was going to be difficult because of the saw's table design. Seems buying an extra 80 or higher tooth blade is the answer if the material chip out concern, which would be doing anyway even with a ZC. On that point I seem to remember a long time ago using a high cut blade and installing it backwards to get a better cut on chip prone material; am I remembering incorrectly or is that a thing.
There is a technique where you can score the wood with a backwards blade before you cut, to get a cleaner cut. It's not something I've tried. Thanks for watching.
Thank you. Very good information.
Why don't you make the same test using miter saws? There is also the belief that zero clearance works wonders for that.
Hi Colin. It would be interesting to know the tooth geometry of the best and worst blade. I believe that makes a heck of a difference when cutting melamine. Great video! :)
What was the feed rate? I find feed rate had a big impact on tear out as well, especially on cross cuts.
Darrin Larson Very true!
Thanks: VERY interesting....sadly, I have spent money on a zero clearance throat plate (my saw has challenges for making my own!)!
Larry B you have a saw stop don't you? Just make one from 1/2 inch stock works great I had to put some screws in the bottom to level it.
You're welcome!
A meaningful test would involve a variety of blades (number of teeth, tip configuration, hook angle...) in a variety of hardwoods, softwoods, and plywood.
He didn't do cross cuts, which is where tearout usually occurs. I think the other board he used doesn't make tear out like a normal board, it's more like chip out. Plyeood is especially susceptible. I would need to see a cross cut test, preferably with plywood.
Does your ZCI rock and roll like it was early in the video during normal use indicating that it is improperly sized or fitted? For a backer board or ZCI to support the fibres preventing tearout, it must be actually pressed hard up against the workpiece. Being pretty close won't support the fibres but it may reduce the length of the tearout fibres. And it would have been better to crosscut the piece of ply rather than ripping. It is rare to get any significant tear out when ripping, but is as common as dirt when crosscutting. For what it is worth, on my sliding panel saw, I do not use ZCI's. There is the best part of 3-4mm (1/8"-3/16") clearance between the saw blade and table. I get plenty of underside tearout when crosscutting. When I need to prevent the tearout, I will install the scoring blade if the quantity of work allows for it. Otherwise I use a piece of 3mm mdf above the table which was part way ripped creating a temp ZCI and it gives near perfect results every time.
"And it would have been better to crosscut the piece of ply rather than ripping."
What do you mean by this? Plywood has each ply at 90-deg so you are simultaneously ripping and cross-cutting no matter which direction you cut.
J Will the outer layer of plywood has a grain direction. For the purpose of proving tearout, it would have been a much better example to make sure to cut across the grain on the two outer layers.
Okay, that makes sense. Thanks for the clarification.
Kuffys Woodwork:- I think the ZCI was rocking because the blade was set a little too high when he was demo-ing it.
That's a really good idea about using a small sheet of mdf or something else as a temporary zero clearance. I am about 3/4 of the way through making my first ZCI of which I'm proud how it's gone so far but I'm still dialing the size in. It seems to be most valuable for safety purposes expecially if you're taking small pieces off your stock or ripping really thin stuff to begin with.
Thank you for the tips.
You're Welcome!
All 0C inserts do are stop thin strips from dropping and also mess up your dust extraction if, like most saws, the main extraction point is under the table. 0C inserts kill the airflow down from the blade needed.
I'm certain that zero clearance can be much safer than gaps large enough to allow thin off-cuts to get access.
Quality of cut I've never found to be an issue but I am paranoid about changing & sharpening blades frequently!
Yes, when cutting thin materials, it can be safer to use them.
I always enjoy your videos. Thanks for sharing.
You're Welcome!
Interesting results ...
Thanks for watching!
Hello Mr wed how to fix Makita circular saw blade not straight?
Thanks for the info. What type of blade do you use most?
What Freud blade has a flare kerf cut? Thanks for the great videos.
Colin That was a great explanation thank you
You're welcome, Frank!
I think Materials and size of cut have a big impact,
Thanks!!!
You're welcome!
Zero clearance and zero suckingeffect under the table are identical:-).
It really depends on your saw! not so much the blades I have a ridged job site saw or construction saw ... err something and it’s Superbad at tear out with all blades . I made a zero clearance insert and it improved the cuts but 99% your nice big fancy cabinet makers saw is designed for good cuts mines designed for getting the job done because it’s all going to be covered . That’s my two cents on it .
Cheers and stay warm
Good to know! There's a lot of variables that can cause tear-out. Thanks for watching!
I believe there will be less tearout if you try it cross cut instead of ripping. Cross cutting is where I get most chip out anyway.
Great vid!
Thanks!
wonder what a strip of tape on the underside would do.
be a cleaner cut
I'll be doing that test soon!
Cool!!
stick to the bottom, that's about all
It may work better on wood that has longer grains. If the blade is sharp, less of an issue of course
agreed!
Interesting. I thought zero clearance insert is a blade specific.
I use zero clearance to prevent small pieces from going down, never to prevent/reduce tearout
Yes, that are other legit reasons to use them. Thanks for watching!
So then, we see that it comes down to blade. Tape and zero clearance isn't very beneficial. So then, let's go back to a typical hand-held circular saw. Will a circular saw with a good 90 tooth blade have tear out?
OK, gracias por sus videos, thanks for your videos
J.M.Castilla@2018
You are welcome!
your insert is not flush with the table
Do you take requests?
I Do! But, I do get a lot of them, so I can't promise I'll do the video.
So, what I took from this is that zero clearance throat plates are pointless.
I'm surprised.
Is that good or bad?
Like...
Thanks!
The title to the video implies a conclusion: fact or fiction.... however, you do not provide any conclusion.... so, the video fails because it is click bait... You need to rename the video more accurately to " Difference between zero tolerance vs. standard factory inserts"... after all you purport to be WoodWork aficionado...
@al pet His conclusion is in his comments.
@al pet. Bet you’re fun at parties....