It's funny how the budget cap is meant to make things more competitive, but what we're getting is teams already giving up the season after the 3rd round of 23 and switching focus to next year.
the problem is that with the budget cap it's likely that far fewer teams get it "right". and if one does, the others can't catch up quickly enough in the span of a season. that's exactly what happened. the worst thing is: only ONE team got it right. they should make sure that "poor" teams get more money instead of making sure that the "rich" teams can't spend more.
@@racecarrikbut it doesn’t matter if you don’t have the money. Like haas. It does not matter if they had a cap at 150M or 1B. But for higher teams, it’s a good idea
The budget cap isn't designed to make it more competitive at the front but instead to bring the whole grid closer together. It has mostly achieved this. It does mean that the top teams cannot just spend their way out of trouble but will instead have to come up with other ways to get back to the front. The development restrictions should do more to bring the front of the grid closer together than the budget cap will but this will take time. It will be interesting to see if merc and Aston can catch up this season or if it'll take till next season to do that
It’s impossible for these teams (especially the top teams) to know before the preseason testing if they have a good or bad car. Obviously Ferrari assumed that if they developed their 2022 car they’d be in a great spot, but they can’t know what Red Bull and Aston Martin have come up with even past testing. Fred’s face each week has said it all. It’s like he doesn’t want to use words to say “I would’ve never been so quick to take this job had I known that the car was going to take a step backward, while RB takes one forward.”
maybe keeping the porpoising work better on their concept, u can kinda see it with Mercs try to rinse their floor once to minimize it last year, and it's turn out their car have really slow pace that race. This year with the new floor regulation, Red Bull, who doesn't suffer from porpoising last season, and Aston Martin, who has similar design, seem to benefit the most from it
Ferrari said last year that they are struggling with developing this concept. They said the Red Bull car from the beginning of 22 was amazing but extremely heavy. Red Bull’s development path was therefore mostly just a case of removing weight from each element - the aero didn’t develop much from the initial concept.
@@JakeM218 Source? Did you really really think the aero doesn't developed much where we can see they didn't use the same exact sidepods from RB18? 🤣 RB19 being 0.9 seconds faster than RB18 shouldn't be possibly achieved with only reducing weight..
Not even half a season, and we already saw 2 of the big 3 already give up on the championship. So sad but seems like it was just ordinary F1. I got spoiled by 2021 and get my hopes too high
Same... I started watching in 2021 and when I try to complain to my friends who are long time fans about this season they laugh at me; "you think this is bad, you havent watch the entire hybrid era"
@@chuza_97 it’s not even the hybrid era. Before Merc it was RB and Vettel. Before that the Schumacher years, before then the Marlboro McLaren. It’s just how it is
@Ash Dont forget the 90s Williams brother. Those were incredible cars. The 70s and early 80s had the most parity but that's mainly because the cars wouldn't finish half the races allowing other teams to sneak in to the title fight. Only modern equivalent would be 2012
@@QuotidianStupidity Also the Williams domination in the 90's. Mansell easily won in 1992 and Prost in 1993. Senna joined Williams in 1994 and they were 2 seconds per lap faster than anyone else in pre-season testing. Scared by that, the FIA changed the rules on the fly, hoping to stop the Williams. That led to the infamous Imola grand prix, the third race of the season, in which the Williams broke down, Senna crashing and losing his life.
Ironically for the pinnacle of motorsports, F1 is a very slow sport to follow, as most of the interesting narratives take months or years to develop and given its manufacturer nature teams tend to take turns to dominate different eras. Usually one team will nail regulation changes and run with the championship for years, if this new era of limited development actually works, we could still see Red Bull dominating for another year or two. You can take some comfort in the midfield, though, if that interests you, that does change year by year. F2 and F3 offer greater entertainment value than F1 quite often as well, as it's a spec series everyone gets the same chance, and the only difference is each driver's pace. And if you're willing to venture out of F1 and its feeder series', usually the slower racing the better, Formula E, Mazda MX5 cup, TCR, there's plenty out there and some of it is even free here on youtube
I believe that after LeClerc's DNF, they have turned down the power unit again. Look at the customer teams and their lack of speed also. It is not all aero concept that is behind the lack of performance.
It was very clear in jeddah, in Bahrain Ferrari showed a good pace in quali and was the second best team , after the dnf of Leclerc, they choose to finish in points rather than compete for win and end up dnf
@@michaeltrumph121 i don't think that should be the way tho, they will take too many penalty for each race and also has to start last if they always turn it up
@@sorakey4005 So what if they take penalties, they can't win the championship anyway. At least they will win some races. And it's irrelevant if they finish 3rd or last at the constructors.
Leclerc’s DNF was caused by a control unit issue. Not a ICE problem. Y’all really built a whole theory around this without actually knowing what happened
This season I don't think there was as much hype. Ferrari did not set the fire a light in pre season unlike previous years and red bull looked clearly firm favourite unlike 2022, 2019 where there was talk Ferrari could challenge for title. Instead Id say the hype was all with Aston and for me they have met the expectations.
@@lukealvarez3744 I agree, the hype was definitely more at Aston Martin once pre-season test had begun. But there was still hype, or rather hope, that Ferrari would be resurgent this year, and challenge RB again almost for redemption. As a Ferrari fan this season start has been hugely disappointing but I'm glad Alonso and AM have become unlikely front runners who could possibly challenge for wins later in the season as they bring more upgrades. I like Alonso too so let's hope AM can bring the fight to RB
Yeah, Ferrari's development fell off compared to their rivals and their reliability issues hamstrung their existing potential. The SF1000 was the fastest car overall at the start of the year but stagnated. They also seem to have been the only team significantly hurt by the ruling over plank flexing which came in to effect at Spa which suggests that that was a key part of their early season success.
Charles had 2 podiums and even had qualifying magic moments: 4 P4's in a car that wasn't even good enough to get to Q3 on paper. Seb had that magical podium finish in a wet/damp Turkish GP, even holding off Lewis for 14-15 laps. I can't shake off the "winless 2023" vibes I've thought of since the launch dates.
The worst part about the budget cap is that teams have no choice but to mail it in 3 races into the season. I know there will be upgrades an midfield battles but the best we can hope for is that maybe, by the end of the season, one of the top teams will be challenging RB for wins. If this was 2020, Mercedes would have a B spec car on track next month and the fight would be on.
Well, according to the Italian press, they have already reported Ferrari will be copying Red Bull for at least the 2024 car. As for 2023, it has also been reported that there will be major upgrades by the time we get to Imola and the word is it will be so significant whereby the sidepods might even look completely different. If that is indeed the case, then my read is Ferrari has already started moving away from the original F1-75 "bath tub" concept and its subsequent evolution to this year's SF-23. In other words, from this point on, it will be kind of like a work-in-progress if you will as we make and test upgrades based on the 2024 "copy Red Bull" concept. It makes perfect sense because it would be absolutely futile to continue to produce upgrades based on the "bath tub" concept at this point when it has now been proven that it is a complete failure or at least one that cannot compete with Red Bull. Plus, it costs a ton to develop a brand a new concept even when you are trying to copy Red Bull, so using the rest of the 2023 cost cap as the test bed for the 2024 car will be a smart move.
What really bothers me is that in the early 2022 season, the bath tub/scallop concept worked and the downfall was engine reliability. How can you make a backward step?
@@justaname9544 It isn't a backward step. While the F1-75 was good to begin with, it simply wasn't "good enough" even if you discard engine reliability issues. Let's be honest here, the RB18 was better than the F1-75 at the very least on 2 fronts, namely 1) straight line speed and 2) tire deg. On both of those issues, Ferrari is now lagging even further behind than last year. Why? Because the SF-23 is a lemon. That is also why David Sanchez decided to get a job at McLaren because he probably would have got fired for such a major screw-up.
@@paulbugoni2846 There is no such thing as "first". They have to work on everything all at once. Besides, engine reliability has nothing to do with aero, they are 2 different departments. In any case, you don't have the luxury to only work on 1 thing at a time. This is F1, time waits for no one.
I would love for the budget cap to work but apparently all it did is assuring that whatever team (of the big 3) nails the regs is sure to win the first few seasons of the era as there are not much ressources left to outengineer during a season with the cost cap in effect.
A lot of new reg development happened at the big 3 before the cost cap was in place giving them a significant leg up. 2026 could be very different when it's all down to efficient management of resources, even if the big 3 may still have a disproportionate amount of the most talented engineers.
It’s tricky because it’s hard to know whether Ferrari’s idea is wrong or if it’s their ability to make it work that’s letting them down. Like if Redbull had the same concept, would they be faster? I think Aston gaining so much and Redbull being so clear this year will cement to Ferrari and Mercedes that they should just suck it up and copy Redbull’s concept so they can learn why it’s good, maybe have a better shot of getting it right in 2026, and can at least get 2nd until then
I remember 2004 when Williams abandoned his 'walrus' nose design concept, reverted to a traditional one, and even won a race at the end of the season. But then is tough to ditch something you have worked so hard to make it work.
As Ed has said in a previous video, and this year's car is a perfect example of it, one of Ferrari's repeated failures over the years has been using designs that were once competitive, but lost their competitiveness as they were left behind by others
The concept was competitive until Toto and Lewis managed the FIA to boycott it with TD39. But it backfired to them because RedBull took a bigger advantage from it. The mistake Ferrari did was to think that their concept can survive with small adjustments, but clearly this is not the case.
Ferrari fans under 45 were spoiled by the Michael Schumacher years and later by the time Kimi, Seb, and Alonso were at the team. But while the Tifosi had a number of good years, they often had years where they didn't live up to expectations.
@@soundscape26 well if you ignore Kimis 2007 win by 1 point over 2nd/3rd due to mistakes of Ham/Alo in the last race, it's been a while since Ferrari won a championship in convincing fashion, in fact it's almost 20 years.
I really hope Ferrari can make this car concept work. It was cool seeing 3 very different looking cars from the big 3. It just sucks that Mercedes concept is trash and Ferrari's might not be good enough to keep up with Red Bull's concept long term. I was hoping to see a 3 way battle between Max, charles, and Lewis with 3 different concepts but as Red Bull dominates it feels less and less likely that the other teams will keep using their concepts
It’s too bad really. I always enjoyed the low rake vs high rake concepts and how they played out over different tracks before the last reg change. Also the Ferrari looks stunning. I remember people quoting “If this was a beauty contest we’d already lost”…
In jeddah ferrari was like 0.7 seconds slower than in 2022 I thought, even though ferrari developed towards straight line speed they were slower on a track that needs straight line speed, honestly the ferrari paradox is that the car becomes slower at tracks it was designed to be faster at. Car feels good, much slower than before. Amazing.
Last year Ferrari seemed superior at firing up the tires and managing degradation on longer stints … albeit a little draggy. This year Ferrari seems to have prioritized the drag issue but at the cost of tire management … red bull who were low drag last year seems to have found a way to maintain low drag but improve tire degradation Ferraris lap times at the overlap tracks so far suggest they would be better running last years car for overall pace
It's still very early days. The balance might shift slightly or even somewhat. But performance so far does suggest that Ferrari are at best competing with Mercedes this year, and even that's only happening when Ferrari manage to hook up their car to perform at its best. And Mercedes themselves are rear guarding (and sometimes front fighting) against Aston. No one is anywhere near Red Bull except when Red Bull have an exceptionally bad day. It'll be controversial if Mercedes comprehensively beat Ferrari into the floor if the reason for Ferrari's downfall stems from the contentious oscillation limits rule change that Mercedes pushed for. Will be interesting to see what the fight for 5th place in the constructors will turn out like, given that the top 4 teams may effectively end up locking out all of the higher points paying positions (at least once Ferrari's drivers stop making mistakes!). Can Mclaren hang in there and take something positive away despite a dog of a car? And what the heck happened to Alphatauri? They've gone from regular top 10s at the beginning of 2022 to struggling to get out of Q1. Red Bull's second team is not going so well (Which is a shame because I wanted De Vries to do well and become like a new version of Gasly, back when he was pushing that team forward in 2019-2021).
I think it’s down to engine performance. I know that Bahrain is a strong track for Ferrari, and obviously the car is no RB19. But the significant drop off in performance since leclerc’s dnf and issues points to the engine being turned down. Ferrari has also been really low in the speed traps while they were the fastest in Bahrain.
People accuse Redbull and Mercedes of sandbagging but they don't know that it's actually Ferrari. It's working so far. Just hope they don't stretch this into the next season.
Alonso and Mercedes pace was pretty much exactly the same in Australia. But once Aston finds some straight line speed they're guaranteed 2nd best car rest of the season.
Not really finding straight line speed isn’t that easy plus the Mercedes is easy 4kph faster than Aston Martin Mercedes I will find gains in the corner now the can run the car at the proper ride height
Alonso's car is faster due to better tyre deg on the car. In any other circuit Alonso would be way faster in 10-15 laps on same tyres and overtake without much issues. But in melbourne there is practically no tyre deg.
@@jb-y1487 Performance is track specific and with Merc they have had a Bahrain performance where Alonso and Leclerc left them in the dust and Stroll beat Russell and a Melbourne performance where both were level to Alonso so I wouldn't jump on the Merc bandwagon yet. Aston, like the comment above says, has better tyre wear and more consistent pace while Merc are pretty much bipolar in comparison with worse tyre wear. They could be 2nd one weekend and 4th the next depending on the track
@Nt I mean they've got the most time in the windtunnels than any of the top teams. It's not their own tunnel yet but it's still the Mercedes one. They showed in 2022 they can find little loopholes like their high downforce wing.
I don't believe it's the concept. I want to turn your attention to the technical management who chose to stay loyal to Mattia and left with him after Ferrari's senior management failed to show faith in him.
Don't remember where I read it (possibly a Duchessa twitter post), but Ferrari is ditching the current side pods and are going towards something similar to Red Bull. I think it is coming to Imola.
4:40 that's not the only explanation ... it could be that the Ferrari team of engineers is simply less competent thatn redbull's so they can't extract all the potential even if Ferrari concept has more potential. 8:30 changing concept will do everything but help them take the fight to redbull. See Aston Martin can't take the fight to redbull for a reason, a team with 2 years of understanding a concept can't be beat by a team that just started experimenting with the concept. changing the concept now will only mean they are settling for fighting for P2 in championship. The problem in Ferrari is that the car is not even faster than last year. the Ferrari 2023 is half a second faster than the 2022 car in melbourne and that's purely because of the changes on track (chicane eliminated and an additional DRS zone and stretching another DRS Zone). which is the same as the other struggling teams like Maclaren and Alfa-romeo (a team like alpine gained 1.2 seconds, mercedes 2 seconds, RB 1.5s etc)
Honestly they must have had some idea in testing. The most important statistic to look at post-testing was the equivalent run improvement each team made compared to the previous season. Ferrari, Mclaren and Mercedes all lurked near the bottom of that list. (In fact Ferrari and Mclaren were the only two teams to _lose_ time across the board IIRC, where Red Bull vaulted up around half a second and Aston Martin an astonishing 1-1.5) Also, I don't think it was the porpoising ruling that hurt htem the most. Ferrari's loss of speed after the loopholes around flexing skidblocks were closed (Spa) was immediate and conspicuous. They went from winning in Austria and throwing away a potential win on pace in France Hungary to just not being able to touch Max's pace thereafter.
I think Ferrari also misjudged the situation by not taking into account that the RB was overweight at the start of last year, but that's my sideline observation. And lets be honest everybody is surprised by the relative big improvement RB made over the winter.
The cost cap/testing quotas etc seemed like a good idea in principle, but when introduced at the same time as major regulation changes, has had the effect of allowing one team (who picked the best concept to develop) to become uncatchable. Red Bull are the new Mercedes.
I will never understand Ferraris decision to bring in Fred Vasseur. His previous stints with both Renault and Alfa Romeo have been mediocre, at best. Can't help but feel the move to bring him in was to keep Leclerc happy, after he and Binotto's breakdown in relationship last year. If that was the main driver that led Ferrari to bring in Vasseur, then it doesn't bode well for the team as long as Charles has so much power within the team.
It seems people misunderstand Ferrari's real place on the grid, they're a midfield team that sometimes gets race wins, that's it, that's all you should ever expect from them. They had that weird period durin the early 2000's where they over performed, but otherwise it's been the mid field for the last 40 or so years. Why would anyone reasonably think they'd do better than that when that's all they've really done before.
I kind of hate the cost cap. If teams are so far behind with initial concepts, the year is effectively written off because they can't close the gap with a b spec car or massive redesign.
@@michaelironsights8347 I agree. I do love the midfield racing I just wish the racing was like that at the front too. I think the cost cap envisioned a much closer grid on race pace than we have. I initially loved the idea, because it's supposed to mean more different teams winning, but it locks in an advantage like red bull has and causes the opposite of what was intended imo.
@@skiran6316 iirc Renault spent as much as Mercedes. I could be wrong about that. But I remember reading a few years ago that Renault had the same budget as Mercedes. With that imo it's incorrect to imply Mercedes "bought the titles" Also look at Toyota back in the 2000s they had an insane budget and nothing came of it. Money alone buys nothing. But freezing spending locks in advantages
Ferrari built a car concept around the 2022 regs and it showed it was a great concept, reliability issues were the problem that year. Reliability aside, what killed them were the rules changes for 2023. The car was built around running low to the ground and teams mostly fixed their porpoising issues, but the FIA jumped the gun in driver safety with the reg change instead of letting the team's handle it which they mostly did in the end anyways and just disqualify those that fail the oscillation metric they introduced. That would keep the drivers safe from their own selves. Small changes like that disproportionally hurt teams depending on how they designed their car. The low rake concept of Mercedes was the better choice for the regulation set from 2017 onwards that was more adaptable, but the floor changes for 2021 severely slowed the car's progress down which allowed Red Bull to leap frog them with their development as the floor changes affected the high rake concept cars much less. The same story is here, Red Bull's car was built to handle higher ride heights better, while Ferrari's went with the closest to the ground approach. When you make them raise the car, RB won't feel much difference while for Ferrari that was a big loss they had to make up for. This doesn't excuse Ferrari from being overtaken by other teams behind them previously, but in regards to Red Bull they would always end up one leg down. This mess of a championship, just like the Aussie GP, is F1's own making. All props to RB for building an incredible car, but the FIA killed two concepts with this change, both the Ferrari and the Mercedes one, leaving only one team's concept as the viable one. The beauty of F1 is being able to take two different approaches and come to a similar output, then the driver and the week by week setup can decide the actual race results. If only one team's concept is the way to go, you essentially bake in an advantage for that team in the rules. I fear the teams will not be able to catch up to the Red Bull next year as well since now they have an inherent advantage and with 2025 being the final year of these regs the convergence diminishing returns just might give us an actual close championship fight again.
There is always something working against Ferrari. If they have a great car, flawless drivers, good strategy and good pit stops, reliability doesn't work. If they fixed the reliability, the strategy gets bad. Then they have good strategies, but the pit stops don't work. On a different race where the pit stop work, the drivers make mistakes. And if the drivers are running the best performance of their life, the car is not good enough. If, for some miracle, all 5 things work in harmony, the FIA fucks Ferrari with TD's or rule changes against them. And if that doesn't work, there's still bad timing, bad luck or other drivers and teams that ruin their race. Their first three races have been a mirror of how things work for Ferrari since 10 years. Pace was there in Bahrain, but reliability wasn't which fucked Leclerc not only for Bahrain, but for the next race in Saudi Arabia as well. There, they had a good first stint, changed tyres on both cars, only for a safety car to come out and offer free pit stops, even though the retired car was not even on track anymore. And then Australia where Leclerc had another DNF that wasn't his fault, Sainz pitting before the red flag came out, then being the only one penalised in a race where NOBODY ELSE was penalised, not Stroll for putting out Leclerc, not Hamilton for pushing Verstappen off-track, not Russell for slowing down massively at the first SC restart and nearly causing collisions because of that, not Gasly for murdering Ocon and ESPECIALLY NOT Sargeant plowing into the back of De Vries. And to top it all off, the penalty, although only 5 seconds, put Sainz last because of the last lap being behind the SC. At this point, the sheer amount of bad luck is almost comical. It's like Dark Mini is living in the Ferrari pits. As a tifoso, you're going into the weekend thinking "What will go wrong this time?"
Yet no mention about the ride height rule changes to appease Merc's whining which sabotaged Ferrari's concept mid last year?? Or how about the piss poor yellow and red flag decisions which robbed them of potential podiums so far this year.
Tbf, Binotto focused on making the car more neutral and understeery, slower. The car was fine and quick when it was oversteering at the start of last year. Let Leclerc lead the feedback and not Sainz
The Ferrari concept was absolutely fine until the TD39 after Spa last year totally destroyed it's mechanical grip advantage. The irony being Mercedes complaining about red bull dominance which they themselves actually caused by calling for that TD. There is also talk about a new sidepod and floor design coming in Imola
Okay that's true but the RB was arguably always the better design in terms of how it limited porpoising and used aero to seal the ground effect tunnels. The Ferrari was faster in the corners but also much less stable, and in the long run I think that would have contributed to RB making better development gains.
Nothing last year hinted at Ferrari having the best car concept when RedBull got their car sorted. With the new regs and budget cap it was always going to be a gamble to deviate completely from those who looked like being right on the mark. My impression is the big wags struggle to assign their ressources to the right development directions. Merc and Ferrari maybe are used to put a lot of ressources into alleys which turn out to be less effective. Without budget cap this was not hurting them apart from being costly and reducing their effectiveness, but these days you need to identify separate and get rid of lesser ideas earlier so it does not hurt overall performance. Red Bull seems to have it right and somehow Aston Martin as well...
Ferrari's concept is that of a true ground effect car, while Red Bull's concept works more like that of flat bottom cars. You work with a lot of vortices in the underbody area and feed air from above the floor into the diffuser to energize the vortices. Virtually the same way the flat-bottom cars have worked. That Ferrari's concept, based on a true ground effect floor that is maximally "driven" by a better flowed (thanks to small airbox and narrow hood) rear end and beamwing, is actually that much worse I dare to doubt, even if the TD39 and the changes for 2023 have reduced the ground effect. Properly implemented (which simply didn't happen at Ferrari because the people who were responsible, i.e. Binotto and Sanchez, were kicked out in November or decided to leave, which of course meant that they didn't really develop the car properly anymore - maybe even intentionally, which wouldn't be surprising), a higher downforce is theoretically still possible than with Red Bull's concept. But you need the right people to do it, and unfortunately Ferrari doesn't have them now, because others decided to pull the plug in November after what happened with Binotto. People who were crucial to how the F1-75 looked and performed in early 2022....
It's a weird one because I feel it heavily relies on the drivers. AM should be closer to Mercedes but Stroll can't compare to Russell Hamilton or Alonso. Alpine were faster than Haas KMag was nowhere compared to Hulk, Gasly and Ocon and Mclaren were faster than AlphaTauri and maybe the Williams but Albon DNFd so it's hard to say
Im glad Ferrari tried to stick with there concept tbh, dont wanna see 20 cars that look the same,. They Still don't understand how there car was effected by the TD39. The car is too stiff now, The front wing flexed and disrupts the air flow making the floor not work. Fixable but is it worth it long term
Guys, stop referring to the sidepod shape as "the concept". Of all the aerodynamic performance of the new regs cars, 75% comes from underneath, where you can't see it, and sidepods only do part of the upper body downforce and downwash. The issue is somewhere else, often in the floor packaging and execution. Last year's Mercedes was struggling, but not really because of the sidepods, otherwise they would have changed them earlier (and changed them for this season too). They were still far ahead with their slim bodywork from Aston Martin with their bluff walls and RB copycat at the end of the season. We just have to accept that we mostly cannot see what produces downforce in this year's cars, and stop focusing on quite unimportant things like the sidepods.
I think no one should have assumed that Vasseur would be an instant fix to Ferrari's strategy problems. Of course the problems were deeper than Binotto, but Binotto definitely also was problematic. He was almost always denying the problems in interviews, I can't imagine that kind of attitude is very helpful in fixing any underlying issues. If Vasseur is competent in fixing these things, well start seeing changes next year, or maybe already later this year.
While the top runners debate plan A vs B , Ferrari already plans for E and D. Driver errors can be covered if the team stand up , Ferrari seems to be in serious over estimation of its own capabilities. Development race gain or starting with the best car , throughout 2010 till now Ferrari has proven it can throw away all the possible advantages to make a fool at the end.
Then Mercedes cried about building a crap car for the Ground Effect era, pressured the FIA to raise ride heights and let RB run away with the championship. MB should just be thrown out of the sport tbh
Is it possible with the rule in charge now to debut a true new car during the season? This is not for the Ferrari specific case, but I was thinking that if you debut a new car during the season, you could at least have a lot of free practices during gp to test it. In a sense, with only three days of pre-season testing, it is a big risk nowdays to debut a car at the beginning of the season if you develop the wrong concept. But if you debut a new car during mid season, you can test it a lot more and make even additional changes during the winter season before the season stars again. I undestrand this means a complete reworking of development timing and process for the teams, but I think it could work (if it is possible ofc). What do you think guys?
I disagree with the opening statement about mercedes.... somewhat. They do need to change their car, but I dont think it needs to be an entire philosophy change. I am not a fan of Mercedes, but I think they are onto something with their design, it was just such a big change that they need to dial it in to get competitive and the drivers may need to change the way they drive to take advantage of the new package. Ferrari's biggest problem IMHO is its lack of loyalty to teammembers. I am just super happy to see Astin Martin making waves. The last race was a welcome shakeup, and although we saw max take the 🏁, he had to work for it. Happy to see new teams moving into the points tho. Good season so far, we have a long way left to go. Can we also Bitch a little bit about the THREE red flags in a single race. Seems the race directors are a little too jumpy right now.
This is kind of sad in a way, it seems like it's all indicative that we've reached that inevitable point where the diversity of concepts seen in the first season has to go away, now that a superior concept has been identified.
top 3 for going off circuit more like it, he'll never be the legend you hope, not in that class what so ever, I'm old enough to have watched Senna and Mansell race, so I know a thing about F1.
The problem with Ferrari and has been since their golden era they've had a revolving door of TP's. You cant expect anything to grow if every few seasons you change the hierarchy. In the budget cap era, the concept and the idea of Kaizen is so much more important and getting rid of the guys that dev'd the original car to be a championship candidate doesn't make sense to me... I'm sure there are many points in the mid to late 2010's when RB was falling into the midfield that if it were Ferrari, Horner would of been sacked, but he wasn't, and its paid dividends again.
Remember, how people complain that ferrari fast only after saw it on "showcase of the car". But also Sainz pace was one of the fastest. Maybe, if Leclerc not have dnf, he would be contender for p3.
We need to get rid of grid penalties for mechanical issues. Charles was already punished when his car broke down. The repair of the car should not be punishable
Would be good to do more on this amorphous term “car concept”. Is this just fixed points like ride height and wheelbase? or is this just a convenient way to say the other car has better components operating in a system? It suggests that concept drives performance whereas surly this comes from the sum of the parts systems working together. Not really buying you cannot change those systems to improve the car or that somehow a concept drives performance top down. Usually caveats apply.
The Ferrari concepts low development potential was very evident even last season . Throughout the whole 22 season they only brought front wing and rear wing changes, while the whole padock was refining the engine cover sidepods and lot more parts of the car. A point to note is that, the Ferrari team sacrificed their whole 2021 season to develop the 22 car, they had more time to develop the car ,so when the 22 car was revealed it was already on its full potential unlike the merc and redbull
3:07 2003 Average Pace: how is this calculated? Is it simply the time taken from lights out to the checkered flag? Is it adjusted for pit stops? Is it adjusted for drivers (is the Alfa 101.791% regardless of whether Bottas is driving it or Zhou)?
I also think that firing Binotto was a big mistake. Yes he made errors as a teamboss, but he was great at the technical side and had a lot of experience. They should've repositioned Binotto as head of development and recruited someone just for the team boss job. Fred Vasseur may chance some things here and there, but it's not going to change the fundamental problems at Ferrari. I'm afraid they're not winning a title anytime soon, only a matter of time before Mercedes catches up to RB and Aston Martin becomes even stronger.
As a new casual fan(can't get enough of the history tho) sure Max will prob be first, but 2-5th could be interesting with Mercedes and Alsonso, and Ferrari being a ? Right now.
It means that it has a very small optimal performance window. So when you are operating in that range, the car is very fast, but to get it there a lot of things have to be right like tier temps, aero, engine mode, setup and driving style. It's like a peak on a graph, takes time to get there, lasts very small time and then decline starts.
Don’t see Ferrari challenging for race wins until mid season at best and next year at worst. In today’s era of F1 getting it wrong from day 1 means you’re basically screwed for the rest of the year and carry it to next year. Even in this new generation of cars,you basically just need a few races to tell whether to focus for next year or keep doing it for this year.
If they don't change soon they themselves risk been pushed further back. Surely it won't be long before the likes of Alpine,alpha tuari etc change to the favoured concept.
The only thing I would say is they haven't really got their concept that wrong, they just haven't nailed it like RB has. Take Redbull out of the series and all the teams are highly competitive. More so than we have seen in a long time with Merc/AM/Alp/Ferrari is 4 teams where over the last few years its only ever been two teams. I really think RB is skewing the results so much which I don't think is fair to the other 4 teams.
Ferrari the 4th fastest car, really? I saw a post on reddit where based on GPS they elaborated the average race pace of every car, and saonz was just behind max. I don't know where your data comes from, as GPS is the only source of you haven't got the team's data, which I don't think you posses.
Downforce + tyre grip combination seemingly not right, because of the high tyre wear (compared to RBR). Maybe. 🤔 After this: reduce drag for straight line speed, with maintaining the same downforce level. After this: it's almost 2024, so hurry up! 😉
I refuse to believe this concept has limited development potential and can’t be fast. Their in-season development has always been weak compared to Merc and especially RB (king of in-season development). Start ahead, finish behind is their MO. They may understand their issues but continue to not know how to fix them without creating issues elsewhere. Also, has anyone questioned whether or not that “innovative” PU design they decided to go with, instead of adopting the split turbo, could be a cause of their reliability issues?
@@ryanjonathanmartin3933 the same as now. But if a team can proof and give a good reason why they need some more money that could make things a little more interesting again.
Nobody really calls McLaren out even though they've fucked up much much more than Ferrari have in the 21st century. It was just masked somewhat during the early 2010s because Hamilton is an easy scapegoat for a lot of fans.
This is nothing new. In the 2017 and 2018 season Ferrari not only lost the championships due to Vettel failing under pressure, as the Team not being able to keep up with Mercedes, the development of the car. Same as with the 2022 season.
It was mainly because of Vettel though. In 2018 he made mistakes in Baku, Austria, France, Germany, Italy, USA (×2) which cost many many points. Yes Ferrari got outdeveloped but the car didn't become slow - Raikkonen was still able to win in Austin. Had Vettel kept it cold and clean he would have pushed Hamilton all the way to Abu Dhabi.
@@manusiaganteng2753 Vettel was racing under pressure with a Mercedes in progressive rise in competitiveness. Adding to that a very motivated and regular Hamilton. Doubt even if Vettel was in top form, he would be able to keep up with Hamilton through the season. The same almost happened with Verstappen in the 2021 season.
2017 Vettel was great, the Asian leg of the season killed their chances. Everyone remembers the Vettel-Kimi incident but forget that they also had a mechanical retirement for Vettel shortly after. Against a Mercedes that was equally as fast and bulletproof in reliability, it was pretty much impossible to catch up. It's also Ferrari's failure how they managed their drivers, a driver that's out of title contention should never jeopardize his colleague that still has something to lose. In 5 years Bottas never collided with Hamilton at the start even when they were actual title rivals. 2018 they simply got outdeveloped and Hamilton was in his best form. Vettel's DNF at Hockenheim was seen as some great turning point towards a downwards spiral, but forget to mention that he was very competitive in the next two races and won Spa if I recall correctly. He made mistakes precisely because the car wasn't good enough anymore and he tried to push it past what it could realistically achieve which resulted in mistakes. You can see the same in 2021 both for Max and Lewis in parts of the season when their car became worse than their opponent's. I mean to have an upgrade package that takes you several race weekends to figure out isn't working and makes you slower and you go instantly faster when you take them off is embarrassing for a title contending team. Drivers don't just forget how to drive or handle pressure, the man was a veteran with 4 titles to his name. 2017 was their best shot but they blew it with their team management and reliability issues, 2018 was a car development disaster. I'm not saying Vettel was perfect during those two years, but Vettel was not why they failed to win those titles.
It's funny how the budget cap is meant to make things more competitive, but what we're getting is teams already giving up the season after the 3rd round of 23 and switching focus to next year.
the problem is that with the budget cap it's likely that far fewer teams get it "right". and if one does, the others can't catch up quickly enough in the span of a season. that's exactly what happened. the worst thing is: only ONE team got it right.
they should make sure that "poor" teams get more money instead of making sure that the "rich" teams can't spend more.
They should honestly just adjust the cost cap the same way they adjust wind tunnel time, that way teams that are behind could spend more and catch up.
@@racecarrikbut it doesn’t matter if you don’t have the money. Like haas. It does not matter if they had a cap at 150M or 1B. But for higher teams, it’s a good idea
The budget cap isn't designed to make it more competitive at the front but instead to bring the whole grid closer together. It has mostly achieved this.
It does mean that the top teams cannot just spend their way out of trouble but will instead have to come up with other ways to get back to the front.
The development restrictions should do more to bring the front of the grid closer together than the budget cap will but this will take time. It will be interesting to see if merc and Aston can catch up this season or if it'll take till next season to do that
@@remphey RB didn’t even adhere to the cap, won, and suffered no meaningful consequences. It’s a joke
First. Unlike Ferrari.
Or Mercedes 😢
violation fr
Or anyone not in red bull
😂😂😂
This is the first time I actually like a 'first' comment
This car defies the first law of physics: things that are red go faster
Alfa Romeo taking notes furiously only to realise who it was following...
Add stripes.
@@groundedgaming add also side stripes and rear wing vinyl on it.
@@thelegendformula6695 add also a vinyl and Brembo decal on the rear wing.
RGB underfloor = 13% aerodynamic efficiency!
0:57 Ferrari even scored more points in the first three races in 2020 compared to this season 💀
IKR?
It’s impossible for these teams (especially the top teams) to know before the preseason testing if they have a good or bad car. Obviously Ferrari assumed that if they developed their 2022 car they’d be in a great spot, but they can’t know what Red Bull and Aston Martin have come up with even past testing. Fred’s face each week has said it all. It’s like he doesn’t want to use words to say “I would’ve never been so quick to take this job had I known that the car was going to take a step backward, while RB takes one forward.”
Agree man
maybe keeping the porpoising work better on their concept, u can kinda see it with Mercs try to rinse their floor once to minimize it last year, and it's turn out their car have really slow pace that race. This year with the new floor regulation, Red Bull, who doesn't suffer from porpoising last season, and Aston Martin, who has similar design, seem to benefit the most from it
Ferrari said last year that they are struggling with developing this concept. They said the Red Bull car from the beginning of 22 was amazing but extremely heavy. Red Bull’s development path was therefore mostly just a case of removing weight from each element - the aero didn’t develop much from the initial concept.
Becoming Ferrari CEO is a career suicide in F1
@@JakeM218 Source? Did you really really think the aero doesn't developed much where we can see they didn't use the same exact sidepods from RB18? 🤣
RB19 being 0.9 seconds faster than RB18 shouldn't be possibly achieved with only reducing weight..
Ed has an uncanny talent of making me feel like im hearing the same sentence over and over again.
Its his cadence. He repeats same ups n downs in his speech
@@captaintoyota3171 ya hear Ed, vary it up!
@@captaintoyota3171 he learned his speech pattern from How it's Made
One might call it... how it's madence
Not even half a season, and we already saw 2 of the big 3 already give up on the championship. So sad but seems like it was just ordinary F1. I got spoiled by 2021 and get my hopes too high
Lanzhu Zhong to Ferrari: Ferrari Ambition outweight your talent.
Same... I started watching in 2021 and when I try to complain to my friends who are long time fans about this season they laugh at me;
"you think this is bad, you havent watch the entire hybrid era"
@@chuza_97 it’s not even the hybrid era. Before Merc it was RB and Vettel.
Before that the Schumacher years, before then the Marlboro McLaren.
It’s just how it is
@Ash Dont forget the 90s Williams brother. Those were incredible cars. The 70s and early 80s had the most parity but that's mainly because the cars wouldn't finish half the races allowing other teams to sneak in to the title fight. Only modern equivalent would be 2012
@@QuotidianStupidity Also the Williams domination in the 90's. Mansell easily won in 1992 and Prost in 1993. Senna joined Williams in 1994 and they were 2 seconds per lap faster than anyone else in pre-season testing. Scared by that, the FIA changed the rules on the fly, hoping to stop the Williams. That led to the infamous Imola grand prix, the third race of the season, in which the Williams broke down, Senna crashing and losing his life.
Its crazy that this season is basically over. Hard to get into a sport where the outcome has been determined for the top spot 3 races in.
Ironically for the pinnacle of motorsports, F1 is a very slow sport to follow, as most of the interesting narratives take months or years to develop and given its manufacturer nature teams tend to take turns to dominate different eras. Usually one team will nail regulation changes and run with the championship for years, if this new era of limited development actually works, we could still see Red Bull dominating for another year or two. You can take some comfort in the midfield, though, if that interests you, that does change year by year. F2 and F3 offer greater entertainment value than F1 quite often as well, as it's a spec series everyone gets the same chance, and the only difference is each driver's pace. And if you're willing to venture out of F1 and its feeder series', usually the slower racing the better, Formula E, Mazda MX5 cup, TCR, there's plenty out there and some of it is even free here on youtube
I believe that after LeClerc's DNF, they have turned down the power unit again. Look at the customer teams and their lack of speed also. It is not all aero concept that is behind the lack of performance.
It was very clear in jeddah, in Bahrain Ferrari showed a good pace in quali and was the second best team , after the dnf of Leclerc, they choose to finish in points rather than compete for win and end up dnf
They should crank it up again. Better to win once in a while and DNF some other times than to always finish 5 or 6
@@michaeltrumph121 i don't think that should be the way tho, they will take too many penalty for each race and also has to start last if they always turn it up
@@sorakey4005
So what if they take penalties, they can't win the championship anyway.
At least they will win some races.
And it's irrelevant if they finish 3rd or last at the constructors.
Leclerc’s DNF was caused by a control unit issue. Not a ICE problem. Y’all really built a whole theory around this without actually knowing what happened
Huge disappointment especially with pre-season hype
This season I don't think there was as much hype. Ferrari did not set the fire a light in pre season unlike previous years and red bull looked clearly firm favourite unlike 2022, 2019 where there was talk Ferrari could challenge for title. Instead Id say the hype was all with Aston and for me they have met the expectations.
Not just for Ferrari fans but for race fans too..... One consolation: we've got A.M. to take their place ...
Never put your faith in a bunch of Italians 🤣
@@lukealvarez3744 I agree, the hype was definitely more at Aston Martin once pre-season test had begun. But there was still hype, or rather hope, that Ferrari would be resurgent this year, and challenge RB again almost for redemption. As a Ferrari fan this season start has been hugely disappointing but I'm glad Alonso and AM have become unlikely front runners who could possibly challenge for wins later in the season as they bring more upgrades. I like Alonso too so let's hope AM can bring the fight to RB
@@lukealvarez3744 as always from Ferrari F1. Ferrari F1 Expectation: 👍 but in reality: Big Thumbs Down. 👎
Binotto, missed never forgotten 😢
When you realize even the SF1000 had one podium finish in its first three races in 2020.
Agree. So SF-23 basically singlehandedly carried the legacy from SF1000.
Damn we going out sad
Yeah, Ferrari's development fell off compared to their rivals and their reliability issues hamstrung their existing potential. The SF1000 was the fastest car overall at the start of the year but stagnated. They also seem to have been the only team significantly hurt by the ruling over plank flexing which came in to effect at Spa which suggests that that was a key part of their early season success.
Don’t forget Sebastian Vettel
Charles had 2 podiums and even had qualifying magic moments: 4 P4's in a car that wasn't even good enough to get to Q3 on paper. Seb had that magical podium finish in a wet/damp Turkish GP, even holding off Lewis for 14-15 laps.
I can't shake off the "winless 2023" vibes I've thought of since the launch dates.
The worst part about the budget cap is that teams have no choice but to mail it in 3 races into the season. I know there will be upgrades an midfield battles but the best we can hope for is that maybe, by the end of the season, one of the top teams will be challenging RB for wins. If this was 2020, Mercedes would have a B spec car on track next month and the fight would be on.
lol true. Merc would create 3 sets of cars with different design ideas just so they don't even miss 0.00001 seconds per lap of performance.
How much were the big teams spending before the cap?
@@natefoster I’m sure someone will correct me here if I’m wrong but I believe RB and Merc were spending north of 400 million
Well, according to the Italian press, they have already reported Ferrari will be copying Red Bull for at least the 2024 car. As for 2023, it has also been reported that there will be major upgrades by the time we get to Imola and the word is it will be so significant whereby the sidepods might even look completely different. If that is indeed the case, then my read is Ferrari has already started moving away from the original F1-75 "bath tub" concept and its subsequent evolution to this year's SF-23. In other words, from this point on, it will be kind of like a work-in-progress if you will as we make and test upgrades based on the 2024 "copy Red Bull" concept. It makes perfect sense because it would be absolutely futile to continue to produce upgrades based on the "bath tub" concept at this point when it has now been proven that it is a complete failure or at least one that cannot compete with Red Bull. Plus, it costs a ton to develop a brand a new concept even when you are trying to copy Red Bull, so using the rest of the 2023 cost cap as the test bed for the 2024 car will be a smart move.
Ferrari need to improve reliability desperately first.
What really bothers me is that in the early 2022 season, the bath tub/scallop concept worked and the downfall was engine reliability. How can you make a backward step?
Last year Australia Leclrec was racing against himself and winning every lap.
@@justaname9544 It isn't a backward step. While the F1-75 was good to begin with, it simply wasn't "good enough" even if you discard engine reliability issues. Let's be honest here, the RB18 was better than the F1-75 at the very least on 2 fronts, namely 1) straight line speed and 2) tire deg. On both of those issues, Ferrari is now lagging even further behind than last year. Why? Because the SF-23 is a lemon. That is also why David Sanchez decided to get a job at McLaren because he probably would have got fired for such a major screw-up.
@@paulbugoni2846 There is no such thing as "first". They have to work on everything all at once. Besides, engine reliability has nothing to do with aero, they are 2 different departments. In any case, you don't have the luxury to only work on 1 thing at a time. This is F1, time waits for no one.
I would love for the budget cap to work but apparently all it did is assuring that whatever team (of the big 3) nails the regs is sure to win the first few seasons of the era as there are not much ressources left to outengineer during a season with the cost cap in effect.
A lot of new reg development happened at the big 3 before the cost cap was in place giving them a significant leg up. 2026 could be very different when it's all down to efficient management of resources, even if the big 3 may still have a disproportionate amount of the most talented engineers.
It’s tricky because it’s hard to know whether Ferrari’s idea is wrong or if it’s their ability to make it work that’s letting them down. Like if Redbull had the same concept, would they be faster?
I think Aston gaining so much and Redbull being so clear this year will cement to Ferrari and Mercedes that they should just suck it up and copy Redbull’s concept so they can learn why it’s good, maybe have a better shot of getting it right in 2026, and can at least get 2nd until then
see copying some one you are already one step behind top three doesn't want that
I remember 2004 when Williams abandoned his 'walrus' nose design concept, reverted to a traditional one, and even won a race at the end of the season. But then is tough to ditch something you have worked so hard to make it work.
i remember when these guys were gaining 30 horsepower during the winter 😂😂😂😂
they gained but what we can say is very sad
As Ed has said in a previous video, and this year's car is a perfect example of it, one of Ferrari's repeated failures over the years has been using designs that were once competitive, but lost their competitiveness as they were left behind by others
The concept was competitive until Toto and Lewis managed the FIA to boycott it with TD39. But it backfired to them because RedBull took a bigger advantage from it. The mistake Ferrari did was to think that their concept can survive with small adjustments, but clearly this is not the case.
They've turned th PU down again surely given the struggles already. The cars set up window is too small
Ferrari just being Ferrari: all hype and no beef.
All cock, no balls.
Ferrari expectation: 👍
Reality: Always big thumbs down. 👎
Ferrari fans under 45 were spoiled by the Michael Schumacher years and later by the time Kimi, Seb, and Alonso were at the team. But while the Tifosi had a number of good years, they often had years where they didn't live up to expectations.
@@jazzrockr And before Michael's titles they went almost 20 years trophyless, which means that era was a bit of an oasis for them.
@@soundscape26 well if you ignore Kimis 2007 win by 1 point over 2nd/3rd due to mistakes of Ham/Alo in the last race, it's been a while since Ferrari won a championship in convincing fashion, in fact it's almost 20 years.
Aston Combined both concepts and it works
Don't worry, I'm sure that firing the team principle yet again is the key to success because that's been working for Ferrari (sarcasm).
I really hope Ferrari can make this car concept work. It was cool seeing 3 very different looking cars from the big 3. It just sucks that Mercedes concept is trash and Ferrari's might not be good enough to keep up with Red Bull's concept long term. I was hoping to see a 3 way battle between Max, charles, and Lewis with 3 different concepts but as Red Bull dominates it feels less and less likely that the other teams will keep using their concepts
It’s too bad really. I always enjoyed the low rake vs high rake concepts and how they played out over different tracks before the last reg change. Also the Ferrari looks stunning. I remember people quoting “If this was a beauty contest we’d already lost”…
@@markhazard3176 yeah I really like the new Ferrari. Very different and the side pods look so good with the livery
Ferrari really spent the whole winter developing a car merely hundredths of second faster than last year🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Yes. But for me more like only 0.0000000001 seconds faster than even in 2020! LOL.
In jeddah ferrari was like 0.7 seconds slower than in 2022 I thought, even though ferrari developed towards straight line speed they were slower on a track that needs straight line speed, honestly the ferrari paradox is that the car becomes slower at tracks it was designed to be faster at.
Car feels good, much slower than before. Amazing.
5:00 Is there any area left??
Last year Ferrari seemed superior at firing up the tires and managing degradation on longer stints … albeit a little draggy.
This year Ferrari seems to have prioritized the drag issue but at the cost of tire management … red bull who were low drag last year seems to have found a way to maintain low drag but improve tire degradation
Ferraris lap times at the overlap tracks so far suggest they would be better running last years car for overall pace
Even last year, tire deg was a major issue for Ferrari
Can't spell Ferrari without a massive F.
More like Error.
LOL
It's still very early days. The balance might shift slightly or even somewhat. But performance so far does suggest that Ferrari are at best competing with Mercedes this year, and even that's only happening when Ferrari manage to hook up their car to perform at its best. And Mercedes themselves are rear guarding (and sometimes front fighting) against Aston. No one is anywhere near Red Bull except when Red Bull have an exceptionally bad day. It'll be controversial if Mercedes comprehensively beat Ferrari into the floor if the reason for Ferrari's downfall stems from the contentious oscillation limits rule change that Mercedes pushed for.
Will be interesting to see what the fight for 5th place in the constructors will turn out like, given that the top 4 teams may effectively end up locking out all of the higher points paying positions (at least once Ferrari's drivers stop making mistakes!). Can Mclaren hang in there and take something positive away despite a dog of a car? And what the heck happened to Alphatauri? They've gone from regular top 10s at the beginning of 2022 to struggling to get out of Q1. Red Bull's second team is not going so well (Which is a shame because I wanted De Vries to do well and become like a new version of Gasly, back when he was pushing that team forward in 2019-2021).
I think it’s down to engine performance.
I know that Bahrain is a strong track for Ferrari, and obviously the car is no RB19. But the significant drop off in performance since leclerc’s dnf and issues points to the engine being turned down.
Ferrari has also been really low in the speed traps while they were the fastest in Bahrain.
People accuse Redbull and Mercedes of sandbagging but they don't know that it's actually Ferrari. It's working so far. Just hope they don't stretch this into the next season.
Ferrari will be 200 points down and reveal their true pace 🥶🥶
@@gamingnoah9807 nope. 666 pts down actually.
Alonso and Mercedes pace was pretty much exactly the same in Australia. But once Aston finds some straight line speed they're guaranteed 2nd best car rest of the season.
Not really finding straight line speed isn’t that easy plus the Mercedes is easy 4kph faster than Aston Martin
Mercedes I will find gains in the corner now the can run the car at the proper ride height
Alonso's car is faster due to better tyre deg on the car. In any other circuit Alonso would be way faster in 10-15 laps on same tyres and overtake without much issues. But in melbourne there is practically no tyre deg.
@@jb-y1487 Performance is track specific and with Merc they have had a Bahrain performance where Alonso and Leclerc left them in the dust and Stroll beat Russell and a Melbourne performance where both were level to Alonso so I wouldn't jump on the Merc bandwagon yet. Aston, like the comment above says, has better tyre wear and more consistent pace while Merc are pretty much bipolar in comparison with worse tyre wear. They could be 2nd one weekend and 4th the next depending on the track
@Nt I mean they've got the most time in the windtunnels than any of the top teams. It's not their own tunnel yet but it's still the Mercedes one. They showed in 2022 they can find little loopholes like their high downforce wing.
I don't believe it's the concept. I want to turn your attention to the technical management who chose to stay loyal to Mattia and left with him after Ferrari's senior management failed to show faith in him.
i thought Mattia got different position at Ferrari
@@hellohumans175 unfortunately no he worked 23 year over there
Ferrari had a race winning car with engine issues and decided nahhh we want a worse car with engine issues
Don't remember where I read it (possibly a Duchessa twitter post), but Ferrari is ditching the current side pods and are going towards something similar to Red Bull. I think it is coming to Imola.
Good. Maybe they will be closer to RB before the engine fails during the race.
4:40 that's not the only explanation ... it could be that the Ferrari team of engineers is simply less competent thatn redbull's so they can't extract all the potential even if Ferrari concept has more potential.
8:30 changing concept will do everything but help them take the fight to redbull. See Aston Martin can't take the fight to redbull for a reason, a team with 2 years of understanding a concept can't be beat by a team that just started experimenting with the concept. changing the concept now will only mean they are settling for fighting for P2 in championship.
The problem in Ferrari is that the car is not even faster than last year. the Ferrari 2023 is half a second faster than the 2022 car in melbourne and that's purely because of the changes on track (chicane eliminated and an additional DRS zone and stretching another DRS Zone). which is the same as the other struggling teams like Maclaren and Alfa-romeo (a team like alpine gained 1.2 seconds, mercedes 2 seconds, RB 1.5s etc)
I think that’s a possibility as well. Ferrari has started to personify “arrogance” since the early 2010’s
Honestly they must have had some idea in testing. The most important statistic to look at post-testing was the equivalent run improvement each team made compared to the previous season. Ferrari, Mclaren and Mercedes all lurked near the bottom of that list. (In fact Ferrari and Mclaren were the only two teams to _lose_ time across the board IIRC, where Red Bull vaulted up around half a second and Aston Martin an astonishing 1-1.5) Also, I don't think it was the porpoising ruling that hurt htem the most. Ferrari's loss of speed after the loopholes around flexing skidblocks were closed (Spa) was immediate and conspicuous. They went from winning in Austria and throwing away a potential win on pace in France Hungary to just not being able to touch Max's pace thereafter.
I think Ferrari also misjudged the situation by not taking into account that the RB was overweight at the start of last year, but that's my sideline observation. And lets be honest everybody is surprised by the relative big improvement RB made over the winter.
The cost cap/testing quotas etc seemed like a good idea in principle, but when introduced at the same time as major regulation changes, has had the effect of allowing one team (who picked the best concept to develop) to become uncatchable. Red Bull are the new Mercedes.
“ all these resources and you can up with this shit box…..”
Yes. Ferrari chokebox actually.
I will never understand Ferraris decision to bring in Fred Vasseur. His previous stints with both Renault and Alfa Romeo have been mediocre, at best. Can't help but feel the move to bring him in was to keep Leclerc happy, after he and Binotto's breakdown in relationship last year. If that was the main driver that led Ferrari to bring in Vasseur, then it doesn't bode well for the team as long as Charles has so much power within the team.
bravo!
"despite suffering from back pain in australia..." 1:51
what... how or why is this even relevant lmaoooo
Noticed that too... wtf? 😄
Binotto was never the issue.
Yes and no he was smart on car performance but he was not a good leader for the whole team. Improvement doesn’t change over night
@@thatandrew2439 Ferrari themselves is the main problem.
Yeah he was
Change management is hard…it starts at the top….I think the change was needed but they may have to take a step back before going forward.
It seems people misunderstand Ferrari's real place on the grid, they're a midfield team that sometimes gets race wins, that's it, that's all you should ever expect from them.
They had that weird period durin the early 2000's where they over performed, but otherwise it's been the mid field for the last 40 or so years.
Why would anyone reasonably think they'd do better than that when that's all they've really done before.
I kind of hate the cost cap. If teams are so far behind with initial concepts, the year is effectively written off because they can't close the gap with a b spec car or massive redesign.
At least the midfield is closer than ever. But true its sad the the top three teams cant challenge each other at all for race wins now
Without cost cap Mercs outspent everybody else and bought the championships
@@michaelironsights8347 I agree. I do love the midfield racing I just wish the racing was like that at the front too. I think the cost cap envisioned a much closer grid on race pace than we have. I initially loved the idea, because it's supposed to mean more different teams winning, but it locks in an advantage like red bull has and causes the opposite of what was intended imo.
As if the pre-cost cap era was better
@@skiran6316 iirc Renault spent as much as Mercedes. I could be wrong about that. But I remember reading a few years ago that Renault had the same budget as Mercedes. With that imo it's incorrect to imply Mercedes "bought the titles"
Also look at Toyota back in the 2000s they had an insane budget and nothing came of it. Money alone buys nothing. But freezing spending locks in advantages
Ferrari built a car concept around the 2022 regs and it showed it was a great concept, reliability issues were the problem that year. Reliability aside, what killed them were the rules changes for 2023. The car was built around running low to the ground and teams mostly fixed their porpoising issues, but the FIA jumped the gun in driver safety with the reg change instead of letting the team's handle it which they mostly did in the end anyways and just disqualify those that fail the oscillation metric they introduced. That would keep the drivers safe from their own selves.
Small changes like that disproportionally hurt teams depending on how they designed their car. The low rake concept of Mercedes was the better choice for the regulation set from 2017 onwards that was more adaptable, but the floor changes for 2021 severely slowed the car's progress down which allowed Red Bull to leap frog them with their development as the floor changes affected the high rake concept cars much less. The same story is here, Red Bull's car was built to handle higher ride heights better, while Ferrari's went with the closest to the ground approach. When you make them raise the car, RB won't feel much difference while for Ferrari that was a big loss they had to make up for. This doesn't excuse Ferrari from being overtaken by other teams behind them previously, but in regards to Red Bull they would always end up one leg down.
This mess of a championship, just like the Aussie GP, is F1's own making. All props to RB for building an incredible car, but the FIA killed two concepts with this change, both the Ferrari and the Mercedes one, leaving only one team's concept as the viable one. The beauty of F1 is being able to take two different approaches and come to a similar output, then the driver and the week by week setup can decide the actual race results. If only one team's concept is the way to go, you essentially bake in an advantage for that team in the rules. I fear the teams will not be able to catch up to the Red Bull next year as well since now they have an inherent advantage and with 2025 being the final year of these regs the convergence diminishing returns just might give us an actual close championship fight again.
Spot on, yet no one mentions this. The FIA are to blame and they're poor flag calling this year hasn't helped. FIA=Ferrari Interference Association
fia and their golden boy max
@@lolbots This has nothing to do with any one driver or team event, the FIA is just very incompetent as a governing body of the sport.
Ferrari underperformance: traditions.
Yes. Ferrari has been underperformed since 2020.
@@purwantiallan5089 Make that since 2009
There is always something working against Ferrari.
If they have a great car, flawless drivers, good strategy and good pit stops, reliability doesn't work. If they fixed the reliability, the strategy gets bad. Then they have good strategies, but the pit stops don't work. On a different race where the pit stop work, the drivers make mistakes. And if the drivers are running the best performance of their life, the car is not good enough.
If, for some miracle, all 5 things work in harmony, the FIA fucks Ferrari with TD's or rule changes against them. And if that doesn't work, there's still bad timing, bad luck or other drivers and teams that ruin their race.
Their first three races have been a mirror of how things work for Ferrari since 10 years. Pace was there in Bahrain, but reliability wasn't which fucked Leclerc not only for Bahrain, but for the next race in Saudi Arabia as well. There, they had a good first stint, changed tyres on both cars, only for a safety car to come out and offer free pit stops, even though the retired car was not even on track anymore. And then Australia where Leclerc had another DNF that wasn't his fault, Sainz pitting before the red flag came out, then being the only one penalised in a race where NOBODY ELSE was penalised, not Stroll for putting out Leclerc, not Hamilton for pushing Verstappen off-track, not Russell for slowing down massively at the first SC restart and nearly causing collisions because of that, not Gasly for murdering Ocon and ESPECIALLY NOT Sargeant plowing into the back of De Vries. And to top it all off, the penalty, although only 5 seconds, put Sainz last because of the last lap being behind the SC.
At this point, the sheer amount of bad luck is almost comical. It's like Dark Mini is living in the Ferrari pits. As a tifoso, you're going into the weekend thinking "What will go wrong this time?"
Yet no mention about the ride height rule changes to appease Merc's whining which sabotaged Ferrari's concept mid last year?? Or how about the piss poor yellow and red flag decisions which robbed them of potential podiums so far this year.
Classic Merc. They have been doing since the start of the hybrid era. Always screwing them.
oh great let’s blame mercedes as if aston martin, alpine and williams haven’t benefited from that sand rule change.
@@Nutelko8 Ferrari’s fault since 08. They couldn’t win against rb, they whined a gained red bull all the time. Since 2014 they whined against merc
Ok Joe explain their bottle since 2008 then?
Brawn defeated them then red bull and the Mercedes and then red bull again. Keep crying Joe
Tbf, Binotto focused on making the car more neutral and understeery, slower. The car was fine and quick when it was oversteering at the start of last year. Let Leclerc lead the feedback and not Sainz
The Ferrari concept was absolutely fine until the TD39 after Spa last year totally destroyed it's mechanical grip advantage. The irony being Mercedes complaining about red bull dominance which they themselves actually caused by calling for that TD. There is also talk about a new sidepod and floor design coming in Imola
Okay that's true but the RB was arguably always the better design in terms of how it limited porpoising and used aero to seal the ground effect tunnels. The Ferrari was faster in the corners but also much less stable, and in the long run I think that would have contributed to RB making better development gains.
Nothing last year hinted at Ferrari having the best car concept when RedBull got their car sorted. With the new regs and budget cap it was always going to be a gamble to deviate
completely from those who looked like being right on the mark. My impression is the big wags struggle to assign their ressources to the right development directions. Merc and Ferrari maybe are used to put a lot of ressources into alleys which turn out to be less effective. Without budget cap this was not hurting them apart from being costly and reducing their effectiveness, but these days you need to identify separate and get rid of lesser ideas earlier so it does not hurt overall performance. Red Bull seems to have it right and somehow Aston Martin as well...
Ferrari's concept is that of a true ground effect car, while Red Bull's concept works more like that of flat bottom cars. You work with a lot of vortices in the underbody area and feed air from above the floor into the diffuser to energize the vortices. Virtually the same way the flat-bottom cars have worked. That Ferrari's concept, based on a true ground effect floor that is maximally "driven" by a better flowed (thanks to small airbox and narrow hood) rear end and beamwing, is actually that much worse I dare to doubt, even if the TD39 and the changes for 2023 have reduced the ground effect. Properly implemented (which simply didn't happen at Ferrari because the people who were responsible, i.e. Binotto and Sanchez, were kicked out in November or decided to leave, which of course meant that they didn't really develop the car properly anymore - maybe even intentionally, which wouldn't be surprising), a higher downforce is theoretically still possible than with Red Bull's concept. But you need the right people to do it, and unfortunately Ferrari doesn't have them now, because others decided to pull the plug in November after what happened with Binotto. People who were crucial to how the F1-75 looked and performed in early 2022....
Hey, would you mind sharing the source of "speed of car" and how is it calculated....like I find it one of the best data shown in this channel
Yes. Ferrari F1 expectation this year imo is far too high.
It's a weird one because I feel it heavily relies on the drivers. AM should be closer to Mercedes but Stroll can't compare to Russell Hamilton or Alonso. Alpine were faster than Haas KMag was nowhere compared to Hulk, Gasly and Ocon and Mclaren were faster than AlphaTauri and maybe the Williams but Albon DNFd so it's hard to say
Im glad Ferrari tried to stick with there concept tbh, dont wanna see 20 cars that look the same,. They Still don't understand how there car was effected by the TD39. The car is too stiff now, The front wing flexed and disrupts the air flow making the floor not work. Fixable but is it worth it long term
Guys, stop referring to the sidepod shape as "the concept". Of all the aerodynamic performance of the new regs cars, 75% comes from underneath, where you can't see it, and sidepods only do part of the upper body downforce and downwash. The issue is somewhere else, often in the floor packaging and execution. Last year's Mercedes was struggling, but not really because of the sidepods, otherwise they would have changed them earlier (and changed them for this season too). They were still far ahead with their slim bodywork from Aston Martin with their bluff walls and RB copycat at the end of the season. We just have to accept that we mostly cannot see what produces downforce in this year's cars, and stop focusing on quite unimportant things like the sidepods.
Is Mattia still available?
I’m still waiting for this engine which is the “most powerful” in f1’s v6 turbo hybrid history
I think it might be. But if you have to always turn it down to avoid it comitting die you don't really gain much.
I think no one should have assumed that Vasseur would be an instant fix to Ferrari's strategy problems. Of course the problems were deeper than Binotto, but Binotto definitely also was problematic. He was almost always denying the problems in interviews, I can't imagine that kind of attitude is very helpful in fixing any underlying issues.
If Vasseur is competent in fixing these things, well start seeing changes next year, or maybe already later this year.
While the top runners debate plan A vs B , Ferrari already plans for E and D.
Driver errors can be covered if the team stand up , Ferrari seems to be in serious over estimation of its own capabilities. Development race gain or starting with the best car , throughout 2010 till now Ferrari has proven it can throw away all the possible advantages to make a fool at the end.
I think Ferrari already turned down their engine seeing how far RB is ahead. It’s quite sad really..
If they turn up their engine they might run in podium positions but only for a while
It blows my mind how obsessed The Race are with sidepods. Completely obsessed with sidepods.
3 races in last year we all thought Ferrari was running away with it.
@Nt both cars had speed and rb had reliability issues during the early season but they sorted it out and ferrari didn't.
Then Mercedes cried about building a crap car for the Ground Effect era, pressured the FIA to raise ride heights and let RB run away with the championship. MB should just be thrown out of the sport tbh
Is it possible with the rule in charge now to debut a true new car during the season? This is not for the Ferrari specific case, but I was thinking that if you debut a new car during the season, you could at least have a lot of free practices during gp to test it. In a sense, with only three days of pre-season testing, it is a big risk nowdays to debut a car at the beginning of the season if you develop the wrong concept. But if you debut a new car during mid season, you can test it a lot more and make even additional changes during the winter season before the season stars again. I undestrand this means a complete reworking of development timing and process for the teams, but I think it could work (if it is possible ofc). What do you think guys?
I disagree with the opening statement about mercedes.... somewhat. They do need to change their car, but I dont think it needs to be an entire philosophy change. I am not a fan of Mercedes, but I think they are onto something with their design, it was just such a big change that they need to dial it in to get competitive and the drivers may need to change the way they drive to take advantage of the new package. Ferrari's biggest problem IMHO is its lack of loyalty to teammembers. I am just super happy to see Astin Martin making waves. The last race was a welcome shakeup, and although we saw max take the 🏁, he had to work for it. Happy to see new teams moving into the points tho. Good season so far, we have a long way left to go.
Can we also Bitch a little bit about the THREE red flags in a single race. Seems the race directors are a little too jumpy right now.
This is kind of sad in a way, it seems like it's all indicative that we've reached that inevitable point where the diversity of concepts seen in the first season has to go away, now that a superior concept has been identified.
We all now understand why rbr didn't reveal their concept during the launch. No one had time to reverse engineer it and now they are dominating
One of the biggest problems is Leclerc. Over rated.
Your drivers are irrelevant if the car isn't there for them. Hamilton and Max wouldn't be much farther up the road in this thing.
The car's shortcomings aren't surely because of Charles.
lol...Charles is in the top 3 fastest of this generation. I hope your benchmark isn't Sainz
top 3 for going off circuit more like it, he'll never be the legend you hope, not in that class what so ever, I'm old enough to have watched Senna and Mansell race, so I know a thing about F1.
The problem with Ferrari and has been since their golden era they've had a revolving door of TP's. You cant expect anything to grow if every few seasons you change the hierarchy. In the budget cap era, the concept and the idea of Kaizen is so much more important and getting rid of the guys that dev'd the original car to be a championship candidate doesn't make sense to me...
I'm sure there are many points in the mid to late 2010's when RB was falling into the midfield that if it were Ferrari, Horner would of been sacked, but he wasn't, and its paid dividends again.
Ferrari, like most Italians, live in the past. And can't comprehend why their historic reputation of greatness no longer applies to today...
Remember, how people complain that ferrari fast only after saw it on "showcase of the car". But also Sainz pace was one of the fastest. Maybe, if Leclerc not have dnf, he would be contender for p3.
Yes. Ferrari 2023 kinda reminded me a lot to Williams 2019.
Low key, everyone should stop being stubborn and just admit RB have the best car concept and just follow them. Aston did it and look where they are.
We need to get rid of grid penalties for mechanical issues. Charles was already punished when his car broke down. The repair of the car should not be punishable
I could spend years listening to why ferrari fails... Well i guess i can 😅
but tbf they would have been in contention for 2nd in australia
Would be good to do more on this amorphous term “car concept”. Is this just fixed points like ride height and wheelbase? or is this just a convenient way to say the other car has better components operating in a system? It suggests that concept drives performance whereas surly this comes from the sum of the parts systems working together. Not really buying you cannot change those systems to improve the car or that somehow a concept drives performance top down. Usually caveats apply.
The Ferrari concepts low development potential was very evident even last season . Throughout the whole 22 season they only brought front wing and rear wing changes, while the whole padock was refining the engine cover sidepods and lot more parts of the car.
A point to note is that, the Ferrari team sacrificed their whole 2021 season to develop the 22 car, they had more time to develop the car ,so when the 22 car was revealed it was already on its full potential unlike the merc and redbull
Yes this does seem to be the issue. Everything will converge to imitate Red Bull until the next reg change
3:07 2003 Average Pace: how is this calculated? Is it simply the time taken from lights out to the checkered flag? Is it adjusted for pit stops? Is it adjusted for drivers (is the Alfa 101.791% regardless of whether Bottas is driving it or Zhou)?
It’s an average , and I think they consider qualifying times and not race. Times from both team drivers, probably just the best times
I also think that firing Binotto was a big mistake. Yes he made errors as a teamboss, but he was great at the technical side and had a lot of experience. They should've repositioned Binotto as head of development and recruited someone just for the team boss job. Fred Vasseur may chance some things here and there, but it's not going to change the fundamental problems at Ferrari. I'm afraid they're not winning a title anytime soon, only a matter of time before Mercedes catches up to RB and Aston Martin becomes even stronger.
As a new casual fan(can't get enough of the history tho) sure Max will prob be first, but 2-5th could be interesting with Mercedes and Alsonso, and Ferrari being a ? Right now.
i dont think its all about the concept. rb must have something fishy to achieve this much development difference.
🤣, you 🤡
perennial cheats
What's 'peaky' car mean?
Its like a turbo when its on boost its FAST but when it building boost its very slow. Basically its not consistent.
It means that it has a very small optimal performance window. So when you are operating in that range, the car is very fast, but to get it there a lot of things have to be right like tier temps, aero, engine mode, setup and driving style. It's like a peak on a graph, takes time to get there, lasts very small time and then decline starts.
Ferrari were looking for podium in the last two races but got unlucky with safety car
Don’t see Ferrari challenging for race wins until mid season at best and next year at worst. In today’s era of F1 getting it wrong from day 1 means you’re basically screwed for the rest of the year and carry it to next year. Even in this new generation of cars,you basically just need a few races to tell whether to focus for next year or keep doing it for this year.
If they don't change soon they themselves risk been pushed further back.
Surely it won't be long before the likes of Alpine,alpha tuari etc change to the favoured concept.
The only thing I would say is they haven't really got their concept that wrong, they just haven't nailed it like RB has. Take Redbull out of the series and all the teams are highly competitive. More so than we have seen in a long time with Merc/AM/Alp/Ferrari is 4 teams where over the last few years its only ever been two teams.
I really think RB is skewing the results so much which I don't think is fair to the other 4 teams.
An energy drink company makes a faster car than a super car manufacturer says something.
Give Lando a shot at them
Give Lanzhu Zhong and Mia Taylor a shot at Ferrari man.
Ferrari the 4th fastest car, really? I saw a post on reddit where based on GPS they elaborated the average race pace of every car, and saonz was just behind max. I don't know where your data comes from, as GPS is the only source of you haven't got the team's data, which I don't think you posses.
they need to develop the redbull way into the 2024 car and if possible try and bring this year on track
Sainz's list of Ferrari weaknesses
1. Quali pace
2. Race pace
...so everything important then 😂😂
Downforce + tyre grip combination seemingly not right, because of the high tyre wear (compared to RBR). Maybe. 🤔
After this: reduce drag for straight line speed, with maintaining the same downforce level.
After this: it's almost 2024, so hurry up! 😉
I refuse to believe this concept has limited development potential and can’t be fast. Their in-season development has always been weak compared to Merc and especially RB (king of in-season development). Start ahead, finish behind is their MO. They may understand their issues but continue to not know how to fix them without creating issues elsewhere.
Also, has anyone questioned whether or not that “innovative” PU design they decided to go with, instead of adopting the split turbo, could be a cause of their reliability issues?
Considering you said the same thing about Mercedes a couple weeks ago, I now have a lot of hope for Ferrari:)
They should add some exceptions to the budget cap. Also for safety reasons. But especially for Teams not giving up the whole year after a few races.
Then what's the point of a budget cap?
@@ryanjonathanmartin3933 the same as now.
But if a team can proof and give a good reason why they need some more money that could make things a little more interesting again.
Lets talk about McLaren's horse pulled carriage after this.
Nobody really calls McLaren out even though they've fucked up much much more than Ferrari have in the 21st century. It was just masked somewhat during the early 2010s because Hamilton is an easy scapegoat for a lot of fans.
I'm just sad everyone is copying RB car style. I really like to see different approaches and designs.
i thought i heard ferarri already was planning on bringing a sidepod upgrade package. said to not look like anything on the grid atm
This is nothing new. In the 2017 and 2018 season Ferrari not only lost the championships due to Vettel failing under pressure, as the Team not being able to keep up with Mercedes, the development of the car. Same as with the 2022 season.
It was mainly because of Vettel though. In 2018 he made mistakes in Baku, Austria, France, Germany, Italy, USA (×2) which cost many many points. Yes Ferrari got outdeveloped but the car didn't become slow - Raikkonen was still able to win in Austin. Had Vettel kept it cold and clean he would have pushed Hamilton all the way to Abu Dhabi.
100%. The 2018 car just seemed to get slower and slower after Spa.
@@manusiaganteng2753 Vettel was racing under pressure with a Mercedes in progressive rise in competitiveness. Adding to that a very motivated and regular Hamilton. Doubt even if Vettel was in top form, he would be able to keep up with Hamilton through the season. The same almost happened with Verstappen in the 2021 season.
2017 Vettel was great, the Asian leg of the season killed their chances. Everyone remembers the Vettel-Kimi incident but forget that they also had a mechanical retirement for Vettel shortly after. Against a Mercedes that was equally as fast and bulletproof in reliability, it was pretty much impossible to catch up. It's also Ferrari's failure how they managed their drivers, a driver that's out of title contention should never jeopardize his colleague that still has something to lose. In 5 years Bottas never collided with Hamilton at the start even when they were actual title rivals.
2018 they simply got outdeveloped and Hamilton was in his best form. Vettel's DNF at Hockenheim was seen as some great turning point towards a downwards spiral, but forget to mention that he was very competitive in the next two races and won Spa if I recall correctly. He made mistakes precisely because the car wasn't good enough anymore and he tried to push it past what it could realistically achieve which resulted in mistakes. You can see the same in 2021 both for Max and Lewis in parts of the season when their car became worse than their opponent's. I mean to have an upgrade package that takes you several race weekends to figure out isn't working and makes you slower and you go instantly faster when you take them off is embarrassing for a title contending team.
Drivers don't just forget how to drive or handle pressure, the man was a veteran with 4 titles to his name. 2017 was their best shot but they blew it with their team management and reliability issues, 2018 was a car development disaster. I'm not saying Vettel was perfect during those two years, but Vettel was not why they failed to win those titles.
It's clear, they need a big change of concept
The current season cannot be saved now, they should shift their focus to next season
They’ve been doing that year after year