When you transmute you can only find a spell of the card's cmc, not the transmute cost, so dizzy spell wouldn't be able to get spellseeker or solve the equation.
I’m a huge Orvar fan and an owner of a severe times played so edh deck. Since it seems that you dug into this commander I would be interested in your opinion on some cards and why you don’t run them. Also I categorized your deck into the base edh deckbuilding categories like ramp, draw etc. I really appreciate your video as well as the deck in generall. I’m super interested in getting your opinion in the following questions (I know It’s a whole lot). So the following questions are to be seen as no bashing or criticizing your deck or build choices you made but just me being super interested from an Orvar fan to an Orvar fan. 1) You only play 34 Lands. Why is that or are you fine running that few lands, do you miss landdrops often? I personally start at 37 lands and cut if the deck is cheap and has a lot of ramp/draw and add if the opposite is the case. Also I can’t miss my 4th land drop for the turn after orvar. 2) Why aren’t you running any MDFCs in a mono colored deck? Especially Jwari Disruption is a „free“ (replaces a basic land) counterspell Glasspool Mimic is another copy card which it seems so you are generally interested in considering the Phyrexian Metamorph, Silundi Vision is obv. synergistic with the deck and not considering budget Sea Gate Restoration is an auto include for me. 3) Why Phyrexian Metamorph instead of a 2 cost Clone like Flesh Duplicate or Phantasmal Image or even a commander clone like Irenicus's Vile Duplication 4) Why not Swarmyard (budget?) or Riptide Laboratory since you care about protecting Orvar? Maybe instead of Reliq Tower since choosing the best out of 7 cards doesn’t call for more than 7 cards in hand? 5) Have you considered Micromancer since you run a lot of tutors? And then 6) Why not Merchant Scroll instead of Solve the Equation? In my opinioin there is almost no situation where I would want a Sorcery instead of an Instant and then might as well run a cheaper spell. 7) Considering ramp: You don’t run Sceptre of Eternal Glory which easily replaces Gilded Lotus power wise. Why? (Again, not considering budget) Also have you tried out Throne of Eldraine? Super busted like Coveted Jewel because it functions as a draw engine and a mana engine as well. Some cards I really love in the Ramp package are Machine God’s Effigy, Powerstone Shard and As Foretold because they are very efficient at what they do and also cool tech. Especially the last one makes your first 1-2 cmc Cantrips free every turn which is great so I have more mana for other things. And how ar 8) Do you have an experience with Cloud Faeries? I know they are no Peregrine Drake but they sure do a similar thing and often helped me get infinite a serious amount of times. 9) Considering Control: You have no board whipes in here? Why is that? I like to run Scourge of Fleets which I can copy and then my opponents tend to give up since I can copy it at least twice every turn cycle. Also I try out Raise the Palisade where I can name a card type of one of my creatures and then this creature plus orvar since it’s that creature type as well doesn’t get bounced. So it’s sometimes a board whipe that doesn’t affect you without being the in my opinion way too broken Cycl. Rift (also cheaper). 10) Why not Teferi’s Ageless Insight? It’s hard to remove (Enchantment) and also it makes every cantrip a draw 2, In my opinion games run a lot better when I have this card. Thank you for reading and thank you even more for an answer in any length (if that is the case). Of course I’m happy to hear the thoughts of other Orvar players as well.
Cant believe how few subscribers you have. These videos are amazing and I love all the crazy combos this deck can produce 😂 I rarely comment on videos but I hope the algorithm shows these videos to as many people as possible, keep it up Kyle 🙏🏻
Awesome video and tech man, I quickly learned that Orvar is the accidentally infinite commander and have quickly swayed everyone in my pod to instakill him. Really like the discussions of combo pathways, Ill be sending this video to my friend to show them why he's insane and must be stopped. Keep up the great work man!
Best deck tech video I've seen so far. Very informative and in depth. Explanation of the interactions and ways he can be used is something I haven't seen yet. Talking about how you can make it work on the stack etc. Great job. Hope you keep making videos. I think you could go far. Subbed
For me after now having played a lot and done some doctoring on my deck I feel like those should be a must include: Roaming Throne Just use wizzard as a type and you will have an easy time. You can also clone Roaming Throne creating gazillion copies of each creature. Halimar Depths For good preparation of your turns Seat of the Synod So it is easier to get Urzas Workshop going Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx Never anything wrong with Nykthos shrine but with sakashima you can even copy it Trenzalore Clocktower no downsite and can even get your cards back from the graveyard. With sakashima it can be done repeatedly
Another great deck tech! With so few lands, what do you typically look for in a mulligan? What do you do in the first turns of the game other than play your rocks? I assume you try to spend some of the cantrip spells to start drawing through your deck and begin assembling your combos and play Orvar once you can leave up mana for protection? Keep up the great work!
Yes, this is mostly correct. Orvar is going to be tricky to stick in certain play groups. Ramping is crucial in the early game. So if you have a Jeweled lotus for instance, I would definitely run it to get Orvar out ASAP. Ideally, we have a piece of ramp/fast mana in our hand, + 2ish lands, + something to enable a little draw. And if we have a free counterspell, even better! If I can hold up those cantrip spells in my hand, I will because their value can double/triple, etc with orvar out. So don't waste them RIGHT away if you can help it. And I absolutely don't use our buyback spells without buyback unless we are in a dire situation and need the orvar trigger. A good 5 is always better than a *meh* 7. So don't be afraid to mulligan into a better ramping/protection hand so you can make your game plan happen.
I've just opened Orvar in alternative foil and say myself that need to make a Commander deck with him ! I'm glad you've make this vidéo it make really clearer sense to me ! You make a great work, really good at explanation :) (even for a french dude) keep make that good video
A hint I just discovered for the Precursor Golem: Orvar is a Golem as well. So you play a Precursor Golem, target it with a cantrip, make another one which also enters with two tokens and voilà you drew 7 cards for {U}.
I'm glad it is working well for you! I will take a look into Abbadon. I have looked into the deck before but I think some new cards could be interesting to critique!
@@Tempest-Official I’m confused on how you can deck yourself out with the precursor golem combo? Where are you drawing cards? I thought the 2nd text basically says it copies the spell you cast for each golem? I don’t see where you draw anything? Do you mind explaining
have you tried using irenicus's Vile duplication to create nonlegendary flying clones of orvar then creating clones of those tokens, sure it takes some time to start up since (other permanent line) slows it down early but it can get out of control
I bounced a little in excitement when you mentioned precursor golem. Its a card ive loved since i built a modern deck around it around 15 years ago but it always gets so much flack because "they all die to one removal spell"
Brilliant deck and video. Not my style of deck, because I'm fearing it would be another of my "I play the game alone" builds, which I usually only enjoy once. But definitely cool to see what would be possible. 👍🏻 Keep up the good work!
Shipwreck drowser, twiddle and a cantrip like wisps, end of opponents turn, make infinite mana and drawers, cause you will hit a target spell that doesn't haven't draw on it. If played this deck a lot now, and there are still new lines appearing time and time again
Mystic sanctuary definitely is a combo. Sanctuary + 2 cantrips that are 1mv and can target it = infinite tapped mystic sanctuary. Which is infinite mana next turn
I was looking to replace my Urza cause he puts me to sleep, but this looks insane! A friend of mine mentioned him and holy shit does this effective and explosive!
If you could explain the interaction with precursor golem and how there are 17 copies of the spell (in the scenario where you cast it again) Would greatly appreciate it :)
So, I see you prioritized pretty hard having one drops. What's the main factor for that decision and what do you think of something like 'hidden string' over 'trait doctoring'?
Yes. I played this exact deck list in cedh pods with some limited success. And in the higher power pods I tend to do very well. I would recommend adding in a jeweled lotus or a couple other pieces of fast mana though
Thanks alot for the replies, gonna do a very similar deck then, was asking because i noticed alot of the newer lists moved away from peregrine and drake and such and play a much more reactive value lists, but this one seems interesting.@@Tempest-Official
A bit late. But I’m 99% sure copied spells don’t count as casting. So all the stuff about precursor golem won’t work right? And if not, a question, why do magecraft abilities specify cast or copy a spell? Chain of smog + witherbloom apprentice for instance.
The Orvar combo does work because there are two different lines of text. Precursor golem says: Whenever you cast a spell that targets, copy it for each other golem. Orvar says: make a copy of a targeted creature. It's just the way you stack the triggered abilities. As the active player you choose which goes on the stack first, making the extra golem with orvar followed by the resolution of the golem effect to copy the spell. Magecraft is a totally separate ability. You can't really compare the two, as orvar and the golem specify only as cast. I think it's just a bit confusing to understand the combo.
I love orvar, but definitely really hard to make him a casual deck. My first iteration would go infinite so easily, I decided to nerf the deck to be more on the same playing field as my playgroup. Def hard to find the sweet spot, the deck feels way too slow now
I'm really surprised you did not go into the "make a copy but its not legendary" spells. These get really out of hand quickly, because from this point on, you are in the position to make copys of Orvar and get crazy.
why no thasa's oracle or laboratory maniac? also just copy a crap ton of rhystic study or mystic remora and draw stupid amounts of cards until you draw the aforementioned thasa's or maniac and play them
When you transmute you can only find a spell of the card's cmc, not the transmute cost, so dizzy spell wouldn't be able to get spellseeker or solve the equation.
Precursor Golem Combo: I want to mention that ORVAR also is a Golem, so instead of 6 cerulean whisps, 7 will resolve
This content is so well made I literally just assumed you have thousands of subscribers
💯 same
One of the best and most complete guides ive seen, keep them comming!
@18:18 don't forget that Orvar has Changeling, so he is also a Golem when Precursor Golem is in play.
I’m a huge Orvar fan and an owner of a severe times played so edh deck. Since it seems that you dug into this commander I would be interested in your opinion on some cards and why you don’t run them. Also I categorized your deck into the base edh deckbuilding categories like ramp, draw etc. I really appreciate your video as well as the deck in generall. I’m super interested in getting your opinion in the following questions (I know It’s a whole lot). So the following questions are to be seen as no bashing or criticizing your deck or build choices you made but just me being super interested from an Orvar fan to an Orvar fan.
1) You only play 34 Lands. Why is that or are you fine running that few lands, do you miss landdrops often? I personally start at 37 lands and cut if the deck is cheap and has a lot of ramp/draw and add if the opposite is the case. Also I can’t miss my 4th land drop for the turn after orvar.
2) Why aren’t you running any MDFCs in a mono colored deck? Especially Jwari Disruption is a „free“ (replaces a basic land) counterspell Glasspool Mimic is another copy card which it seems so you are generally interested in considering the Phyrexian Metamorph, Silundi Vision is obv. synergistic with the deck and not considering budget Sea Gate Restoration is an auto include for me.
3) Why Phyrexian Metamorph instead of a 2 cost Clone like Flesh Duplicate or Phantasmal Image or even a commander clone like Irenicus's Vile Duplication
4) Why not Swarmyard (budget?) or Riptide Laboratory since you care about protecting Orvar? Maybe instead of Reliq Tower since choosing the best out of 7 cards doesn’t call for more than 7 cards in hand?
5) Have you considered Micromancer since you run a lot of tutors? And then
6) Why not Merchant Scroll instead of Solve the Equation? In my opinioin there is almost no situation where I would want a Sorcery instead of an Instant and then might as well run a cheaper spell.
7) Considering ramp: You don’t run Sceptre of Eternal Glory which easily replaces Gilded Lotus power wise. Why? (Again, not considering budget) Also have you tried out Throne of Eldraine? Super busted like Coveted Jewel because it functions as a draw engine and a mana engine as well. Some cards I really love in the Ramp package are Machine God’s Effigy, Powerstone Shard and As Foretold because they are very efficient at what they do and also cool tech. Especially the last one makes your first 1-2 cmc Cantrips free every turn which is great so I have more mana for other things. And how ar
8) Do you have an experience with Cloud Faeries? I know they are no Peregrine Drake but they sure do a similar thing and often helped me get infinite a serious amount of times.
9) Considering Control: You have no board whipes in here? Why is that? I like to run Scourge of Fleets which I can copy and then my opponents tend to give up since I can copy it at least twice every turn cycle. Also I try out Raise the Palisade where I can name a card type of one of my creatures and then this creature plus orvar since it’s that creature type as well doesn’t get bounced. So it’s sometimes a board whipe that doesn’t affect you without being the in my opinion way too broken Cycl. Rift (also cheaper).
10) Why not Teferi’s Ageless Insight? It’s hard to remove (Enchantment) and also it makes every cantrip a draw 2, In my opinion games run a lot better when I have this card.
Thank you for reading and thank you even more for an answer in any length (if that is the case). Of course I’m happy to hear the thoughts of other Orvar players as well.
I enjoy the experience and insight that comes with playing the deck over and over.
YESS I made an Orvar deck about a year ago and it’s easily my best deck. Great to hear your opinions and your way to build around Orvar great video!
The quality is outstanding. Thank you so much for this video, it really helps me a lot
Cant believe how few subscribers you have. These videos are amazing and I love all the crazy combos this deck can produce 😂
I rarely comment on videos but I hope the algorithm shows these videos to as many people as possible, keep it up Kyle 🙏🏻
Awesome video and tech man, I quickly learned that Orvar is the accidentally infinite commander and have quickly swayed everyone in my pod to instakill him. Really like the discussions of combo pathways, Ill be sending this video to my friend to show them why he's insane and must be stopped. Keep up the great work man!
😂😂😂
Excellent video, I appreciate the detailed explanations to help us get the rules right. Your channel is awesome!
Best deck tech video I've seen so far. Very informative and in depth. Explanation of the interactions and ways he can be used is something I haven't seen yet. Talking about how you can make it work on the stack etc. Great job. Hope you keep making videos. I think you could go far. Subbed
Thank you! I really appreciate it. :)
For me after now having played a lot and done some doctoring on my deck I feel like those should be a must include:
Roaming Throne
Just use wizzard as a type and you will have an easy time. You can also clone Roaming Throne creating gazillion copies of each creature.
Halimar Depths
For good preparation of your turns
Seat of the Synod
So it is easier to get Urzas Workshop going
Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
Never anything wrong with Nykthos shrine but with sakashima you can even copy it
Trenzalore Clocktower
no downsite and can even get your cards back from the graveyard. With sakashima it can be done repeatedly
Another great deck tech! With so few lands, what do you typically look for in a mulligan? What do you do in the first turns of the game other than play your rocks? I assume you try to spend some of the cantrip spells to start drawing through your deck and begin assembling your combos and play Orvar once you can leave up mana for protection?
Keep up the great work!
Yes, this is mostly correct.
Orvar is going to be tricky to stick in certain play groups. Ramping is crucial in the early game. So if you have a Jeweled lotus for instance, I would definitely run it to get Orvar out ASAP.
Ideally, we have a piece of ramp/fast mana in our hand, + 2ish lands, + something to enable a little draw. And if we have a free counterspell, even better!
If I can hold up those cantrip spells in my hand, I will because their value can double/triple, etc with orvar out. So don't waste them RIGHT away if you can help it.
And I absolutely don't use our buyback spells without buyback unless we are in a dire situation and need the orvar trigger.
A good 5 is always better than a *meh* 7. So don't be afraid to mulligan into a better ramping/protection hand so you can make your game plan happen.
Any spell that lets you target your lands is huge ramp in an Orvar deck.
A recommendation I'd make is to consider tribute mage. The deck runs several important 2 mana rocks, so being able to tutor for them is very impactful
I've just opened Orvar in alternative foil and say myself that need to make a Commander deck with him ! I'm glad you've make this vidéo it make really clearer sense to me !
You make a great work, really good at explanation :) (even for a french dude) keep make that good video
Just found your channel yesterday, loved the last deck tech
Incredible quality!
Lovely presentation! Thanks for the dope content!
I can't remember if it was mentioned but orvar is also a golem (changeling) so you'll get an additional card when you do that combo
Very nice decktech! I love my Orvar deck.
Thank you! Love this commander and been looking how to take it further! Now I can thx to you
Totally amayzing Video! I always wanted to build this deck but i kinda forgot about it and you made me remember! Thank you!!!
Awesome, Orvar has the chance to be one of the best mono blue commanders (besides Urza of course). Great Video
Great video, keep up the awesome work!
A hint I just discovered for the Precursor Golem: Orvar is a Golem as well. So you play a Precursor Golem, target it with a cantrip, make another one which also enters with two tokens and voilà you drew 7 cards for {U}.
Sounds pretty broken. Strictly better ancestral recall. ;)
Your decks are awesome. I made few weeks ago your xyris deck and I love it. Could you make an abbadon, the despoiler deck tech in future? 😊
I'm glad it is working well for you! I will take a look into Abbadon. I have looked into the deck before but I think some new cards could be interesting to critique!
@@Tempest-Official I’m confused on how you can deck yourself out with the precursor golem combo? Where are you drawing cards? I thought the 2nd text basically says it copies the spell you cast for each golem? I don’t see where you draw anything? Do you mind explaining
Dude, I love your long form content! You need to be on more players radar!
have you tried using irenicus's Vile duplication to create nonlegendary flying clones of orvar then creating clones of those tokens, sure it takes some time to start up since (other permanent line) slows it down early but it can get out of control
Great video. Thanks buddy. That precursor golem interaction is hurting my head. 😅
I bounced a little in excitement when you mentioned precursor golem. Its a card ive loved since i built a modern deck around it around 15 years ago but it always gets so much flack because "they all die to one removal spell"
Brilliant deck and video. Not my style of deck, because I'm fearing it would be another of my "I play the game alone" builds, which I usually only enjoy once. But definitely cool to see what would be possible. 👍🏻 Keep up the good work!
You should try Imoti, I play this Deck just as a new person is joining our playgroupe and evryone is fucked up from the first second every time 😅
Shipwreck drowser, twiddle and a cantrip like wisps, end of opponents turn, make infinite mana and drawers, cause you will hit a target spell that doesn't haven't draw on it.
If played this deck a lot now, and there are still new lines appearing time and time again
Mystic sanctuary definitely is a combo. Sanctuary + 2 cantrips that are 1mv and can target it = infinite tapped mystic sanctuary. Which is infinite mana next turn
I was looking to replace my Urza cause he puts me to sleep, but this looks insane! A friend of mine mentioned him and holy shit does this effective and explosive!
I’m using orvar deck techs to build my orvar auras deck. Thanks!
im gonna echo these comments, like holy fucking shit dude. some of the best magic content ive seen period
Just don’t forget orvar has changeling, so precursor golem trigger +1
Great vid!
The decklist still shows Gilded Lotus. Wondering if it wasn't worth the swap with Throne of Eldraine? What do you think of adding Ojer Pakpatiq?
If you could explain the interaction with precursor golem and how there are 17 copies of the spell (in the scenario where you cast it again)
Would greatly appreciate it :)
So, I see you prioritized pretty hard having one drops. What's the main factor for that decision and what do you think of something like 'hidden string' over 'trait doctoring'?
Mystic sanctuary = infinite lands with two one blue cost instants that can target it and have draw card text
I recommend bad river to fetch for mystic sanctuary
A question, if i chiper a card on a creature, and i copy that crature, che encore is also on the token?
The new creature that you make a copy of WILL NOT have the ciphered card.
It is only the original creature you choose that gets the cipher.
don’t forget orvar is a changeling so it would also be targeted with precursor golem.
18:09 actually 7 since orvar is a golem
How can you tutor spell seeker with Dizzy spell, you can only tutor a card with cmc 1
Hey, powerlvl wise what would you classify this deck? Able to hang with high power non cedh decks?
Yes. I played this exact deck list in cedh pods with some limited success. And in the higher power pods I tend to do very well.
I would recommend adding in a jeweled lotus or a couple other pieces of fast mana though
Thanks alot for the replies, gonna do a very similar deck then, was asking because i noticed alot of the newer lists moved away from peregrine and drake and such and play a much more reactive value lists, but this one seems interesting.@@Tempest-Official
Throne unfortunately doesn't work due to the legend rule as when the original is destroyed there's no longer a valid target for Orvar
what? why?
A bit late. But I’m 99% sure copied spells don’t count as casting. So all the stuff about precursor golem won’t work right? And if not, a question, why do magecraft abilities specify cast or copy a spell? Chain of smog + witherbloom apprentice for instance.
The Orvar combo does work because there are two different lines of text. Precursor golem says: Whenever you cast a spell that targets, copy it for each other golem. Orvar says: make a copy of a targeted creature.
It's just the way you stack the triggered abilities. As the active player you choose which goes on the stack first, making the extra golem with orvar followed by the resolution of the golem effect to copy the spell.
Magecraft is a totally separate ability. You can't really compare the two, as orvar and the golem specify only as cast. I think it's just a bit confusing to understand the combo.
I love orvar, but definitely really hard to make him a casual deck. My first iteration would go infinite so easily, I decided to nerf the deck to be more on the same playing field as my playgroup. Def hard to find the sweet spot, the deck feels way too slow now
i dont get how you can "easily" cost reduce temporal mastery? Am I missing something?
Youre wrong about percursor golem because orvar has changling!
Guess it's time to take Orvar out of my 99 and make it command its own deck
I wanna see norin the weary
I'm really surprised you did not go into the "make a copy but its not legendary" spells. These get really out of hand quickly, because from this point on, you are in the position to make copys of Orvar and get crazy.
why no thasa's oracle or laboratory maniac? also just copy a crap ton of rhystic study or mystic remora and draw stupid amounts of cards until you draw the aforementioned thasa's or maniac and play them
You dont need winmore cards(thassa, maniac). These cards do nothing until you already winning.