Would love to see you do another tier list where you grade them based on your opinion of their quality as far as how much they contribute to the game being good or bad (grading their design as opposed to their strength).
Zergling is S for the same reason siege tank is S. Lings give extreme map vision and reaction advantage to the zerg. Entire bases have to be constructed to circumnavigate ling floods. And games can just be instantly lost by the wall being down for 1 second too long with lings running in
Agreed. Almost no unit is more obviously S-tier than the zergling. Sure they're weak individually, but they're insanely useful and threatening throughout the entire game. Arguably they're just about the most efficient unit in the game in terms of "attention" and risk vs reward. When you split off a good-sized chunk of lings to hit a gap in the enemy's defenses, it costs you very little even if the mission fails utterly. But if it succeeds you often deal massive, crippling damage. To me, this is what makes zerglings OP--the fact that the zerg has this constant, relentless threat that's so cheap and easy to micro that the controlling player barely even needs to think about it. That, and being able to so rapidly and cheaply pump them out to reinforce/mop up a fight is just crazy. How many games has the zerg army and the opponent army ground themselves down against each other, only for a wave of lings to rush in and turn a stalemate into an overwhelming victory for the zerg? Terran and Protoss are so often forced to back off because of the inevitable ling wave that will follow-up every confrontation.
Tasteless has more exp with BW where the ling is way more powerful. In SC2 there's more splash damage, better walls. Lings are much more manageable for Toss and Terran in SC2. They're still good, but they have a lot of bite taken out of them. They really need Banes to bust walls, or deal with zealots or marines. I wouldn't say they're S either, maybe you can convince me of A, but B fits them well enough imho.
@@Zeuts85 mmm zerglings are not cheap. If you dun have 2 extra macro hatches in the main like Dark you dun have the larvae to build enough. And they are very easy to missmicro. Stray WMs on the field will kill 15 lings per shot, Toss and Terran can make really effective walls, if lings are sent to attack while a wall is in place you lose a third of them without damage. They're great If you have a clutch in the corner at all times that can counter attack, or cut off reinforcements. Most of the time you want to be more larvae efficient so you build roach hydra tho.
After watching the harstem/lambo/scarlett tier list it suddenly seems very silly to put the bc and the marine in the same tier. Same with the oracle and the ultralisk.
Mostly agree, although I'm with chat on the siege tank not being S tier. Even though it's crazy strong, you still see tank lines get absolutely rolled by zerg pretty regularly in a way that SC1 tanks don't. I think the Queen is the most broken unit, almost in a tier on its own.
Yeah tanks are required in tvt, good in tvz but is map dependent imo and mines are a great alternative. Vs P it has it's place but overall it's not that much used in that matchup
it is easily S tier in two matchups, I don't have to explain tvt, it is unimagineble without tanks. TvZ not 100% required, but absolutely insane, the inly unit that counters it is vipers and it is insane against every other zerg unit, there is few things that scare a zerg player more then a 2 base tank push. Against toss they fall of much quicker, but they are still very very powerful early on. You also need to build at least some tanks in every matchup. The only units that deserve S more is the ghost and queen imo.
Ultralisk is d tier for sure. Super expensive. Useless without both upgrades AND tier 3 carapace upgrade. Clunky. Too much supply. And if all that wasn't enough to deter you, it also has a shelf life.
Don't forget that proper positioning is also required or else they'll just derp behind zerglings because for some reason they can't step over tiny units.
How does Nick only have 25K subs? Should be 75K. I know he is on literally every social media platform but there should be a lot more support. Dan has 150K subs and almost 25K for his 2nd channel.
Interesting to compare this to the Tier list that Harstem, Scarlett, and Lambo made. Tasteless kinda takes each unit at face value but not necessarily in a pro meta game sense. While the other 3 took more of a modern 1v1 setting and how often and useful each unit is at a pro gaming level. Especially apparently with units like Tanks, Lurkers, Immortal that are incredibly strong at the "below pro gamer" level, but are more easily handled at the professional level which is why Harstem/Lambo/Scarlett rate it much lower compared to Tasteless.
True, but you HAVE to make them if you want to play the game, which by itself has to make it S tier imo, same as all the workers, you have to make them if you want to actually play the game since they have the most OP ability in the game, which is gather.
@@anonymousAJ Hmm, good point, it's true that my logic is kinda flawed if you want to be consistent, but either way I also don't think you should ignore what workers and overlords provide, gathering resources is definitely one of the most powerful things in an rts.
I feel like rating an overlord is like trying to rate a supply depot. I mean, it does its job. But i might say its A rank b/c unlike pylons and depots it can scout too haha
Hydras are expensive and require t2 and upgrades to be effettive, Also they're rather fragile so yeah I think it's Fair to pit them in B, even though I believe there's an argument to pit them in low A, due to their sheer dps and they absolutely shred protoss gateway units, aside HT with storm!
idk, seems kinda off to me. I'd set: S tier - dictates to the opponent how they must play Queen, Bane, Lurker, Viper, Changeling, Immortal, Prism, Carrier, Mine, Ghost, Mule, Medivac A tier - generally always want to build this (good against most things) Zergling, Hydra, Infestor, Pheonix, Oracle, Disruptor, Marine, Marauder, Viking, Liberator B tier - deals with only a specific problem or has a timer on when the units become less useful Ravager, Roach, Overseer, Broodlord, Infestor, Colossus, Tempest, Adept, MamaShip, Observer, Stalker, Sentry, HT, Hellion, Reaper, Raven, Thor C tier - niche/cheese only units Ultralisk, Mutalisk, Voidray, DTs, HellBat, Banshee, BC, F tier - actively try to avoid building this unit Zealot, Swarm Host
I agree with your criteria. This is a much more practical way to rank these than just how abstractly "strong" they are. Otherwise every zerg player is trying to figure out what the hell is wrong with someone who thinks hydras are good enough to even compare to marines. I do want to ask which zealot hurt you though.
@@justinLooper Thx! Honeslty, zerg is kinda weird just because of the "evolve" a unit route. Like, Lurkers are a ground game defining unit...so you kinda have to make hydra to get to lurker. And as a toss main, I freakin hate the zealot. Utter trash. Bodied by zergling and marine, absolutely destroyed the second ghost hit the field, yeet themselves into mines, and are barely useful as fodder ONLY AFTER a mid tier upgrade and then useless as soon as lurker or something else is out....just bad...Compared to any other mineral only unit or 2 supply unit it's a complete waste. Add to that, the number of SC2 games I've watched where a person going skytoss breaks their "interceptor" mineral bank by wasting trash zealots in pointless run by's... Simply put, zealot is too slow to be useful in early game, decent in the mid, and useless in the late game. Literally just a HP pool to put in front of literally any other unit. And the worst tool for a run by compared to marine drop or zergling runby or hellion or adept or widowmine.
I am thinking, the terran unit that can repair is not a positive for the units but a positive for scv. scv can repair has more health than other workers, can repair each others. So scv should be a B tier unit imo
Storm against tanks?? Strom sucks against terran in general bc of the ghost, but against tanks? Disruptors also don't counter tanks, broods are very expensive very high tech very slow units, the noly way broods are a problem is if you are on pure tank, ravagers are a soft counter, but with good micro and positioning they aren't nearly as effective, they are also really expensive and don't trade well with bio at all. Vipers are busted and hard counter tanks, but they are a t3 unit and ghosts exist. All in all tanks are easy S
In practice it only kills a couple of workers most games and stasis almost never comes into play, I think A is defensible on oracle but B does sit better with me.
Immortal shouldn't be in S, there are no "immortal builds" any more and you can just ignore it in every matchup and be totally fine. The marine, by comparison, should definitely be in S. Probably the zergling too but I think A is defensible for ling, B is not. Phoenix and cyclone should probably swap places, I don't think there's any way to argue that the phoenix isn't a considerably better unit than the cyclone. Battlecruisers should be down in B, they are not really that useful later in the game and mostly only see play in one matchup. Liberators could probably be argued to be A (for their use in actual armies, not harass potential), and I don't even see widow mine on here, but it has to be S tier surely.
Definitely correct about the phoenix, used in all matchups and causes PvP to be a phoenix war in many cases. I think Tasteless just hasn't played SC2 for a while.
I think SC2 has too many units designed to counter sieges tanks for it to be S. They're also 3 supply in this game compared to 2 in Broodwar, and that's a big difference nobody understands or talks about. Supply cost is a balancing tool Blizzard failed to use a lot during the life of SC2. Queens would be so much more balanced at 3 supply for example.
Increasing the queen's size would also have helped in making it less effective in fights. More body blocking and less effective concaves at larger numbers.
Even with all the units that counter siege tanks, it is such a staple in Terran vs anything that it overcomes all its faults. I'm not suggesting mass siege tank purely, but with other units like vikings for vision and being able to work in tandem with the MMM offensively and defensively, they make one of the greatest SC2 units. Queens at 3 supply would massively wreck early game zerg. With 1 queen at each base for injects, plus at least a couple more for creep spread and defense, early game zerg would just eat up too much supply for 3-supply queens. I actually think they're at a fair balance at the moment with removing the ability to transfuse off-creep. If there's a nerf to the queens, there must be a nerf to the early harass units that forces out the queens too in the first place, like hellion runbys, or early BC.
@@hetaresgaming7771 Yeah but the fact Zerg defends itself by just making 8 to 12 queens IS the problem, especially since they don't interact with larvaes at all, not the fact they need to do it to fend off harass. Forcing zerg to use larvaes in some ways ( be it units or using drones for more defensives structures ) would rebalance zerg economic power a lot. The source of thje problem has always been zerg getting an unit they can make outside of their intended balancing mechanism.
@@Nooctae Not really. Making 8-12 queens take a lot of time, and I'm pretty sure by the time 12 queens are made we would be getting into the mid-game, whereby queens fall off in usefulness. It also delays the lair- you cannot upgrade or get lair tech while making queens, which is also a limiting factor zergs have to consider. Say the standard first terran bio-tank push is happening- one would have to scout it about 2-3 minutes prior and get lair, baneling nest to prep for the attack. Queens on their own do terrible against stim-upgraded marines with tank/medvac support.
@@hetaresgaming7771 The thing is top Zerg has figured out how to defend that first tank push without full Lair tech, just speed ling and Queens is enough. You dont need to rush Lair tech for defensive purpose as Zerg anymore, hell they can even go with double evol upgrade before Lair and Bane Speed with 3 base full of economy without any fear of being punished. Thats all the because they have enough Queens to defend against any kind of early push from Terran.
I think Lings are too low. To be in the same tier as hydras seems wrong to me. They are so fast and can transform into bombs. Love lings so I’m biased lol
Yeah, he was clearly getting bored/tired with it by the time he got to zergling, so I think his brain didn't even process it. If he had done Zergling first, they would have been the easiest S-tier choice of all units.
My opinion about Queens is much more emotional than this 🤣 Muta in A?? Definitely disagree, it's got way too many counters to ever find a niche. WM and Phoenix almost completely shut them down. And they don't trade well against any unit that can shoot back at them 😆
Am I delusional, or are you ranking almost every Terran unit one rank below where they truly belong (except cyclone and the S tier). For instance, I'd never put marauders/marines on the same line as mutalisk. And lurker is super impactful, but they're not cheap either it's kind of a "critical mass" unit, except it's late game. and I can't understand the thought process behind Ultralisk and Zergling being on the same tier.
Stalker is too high, IMO. It's a well designed unit, but it loses to literally *every* other ground unit in the game pound-for-pound. By a lot in most cases. Don't get me wrong, it shouldn't be buffed, but it's just not very strong.
Thats exaggerated. It doesnt lose to reapers, hellions, hallbats, banelings, templar, or ultras. Its super strong early, can all-in, can kill off drops or retreating units, and still has a place lategame b/c it can snipe key units
This is a tier list made from a person living 20 patches in the past. Collosus above Zergling, Oracle, Hellion, DT is ridiculous. Immortal used to be a high S unit being completely Core in 2 of the 3 matchups, is now rarely used at all at high levels of play. Marine and Stalker are clearly S tier units. Core in all parts of the game in every matchup, can win games on their own. Most of S is right other than Immortal and Lurker. The Lurker is A at best. At the pro level it's B or C.
Disruptor is S for sure. 1 good hit can change the game entirely! And it happens so often. Same goes for widow mine. This should be in SS tier if possible because it just hits without micro. It regularly kills 20-30 zerlings in pro matches. Viper is no S. Maybe A. Viper is expensive and it takes a long time to be functional. If they had consume like defiler it's S tier for sure.
No way disruptor is S. The 1 in a 1000 shots don't make it S. It is very micro intensive, most shots don't hit anything, just zone the enemy. At high level people split so well it is quite mediocre, at low level people blow up more of their own units, then the enemy's. It also doesn't hit air and hard countered by vipers and to an extent phoenix. Widow mines is S on low level, but at high level people split well enough and doesn't get nearly as much value. Viper is the best spellcaster in the game after ghosts, it is insane. Every spellcaster is expensive and high tech. Consume is busted already, abduct is just free value, parasitic bomb pretty much single handedly destroyes air, and blinding cloud can be insane against terran and zerg, hard counters both tanks and lurkers, it is also really good against clumped up bio.
Overlord's are an S to high A, they move fast, great scouts can become overseers which can detect and drop, and you're always going to have a lot of them.
Reaper one of the worst units in the game? Yeah, checks out. Anyone else remember 2010 though? 3 rax Reaper rush mirrors all day, with the cliff-jumping plus the massive vs building damage. Makes me wonder how a version of the game with all the most OP versions of everything would look like.
I feel like you vastly overrated the immortal. It's not even that Meta right now. A minus tier. If you put it in B i wouldn't be insulted but I would just barely put it in A.
SC2 is inherently just a game where it's awkward to tier units because there have been so many balance patches where units have been tuned up or down by small numerical amounts like 5 health, so there's very few cases of "wow the numbers on this unit are just really high/low". For the most part it's not like brood war, where some units are noticeably overtuned, and other units are noticeably undertuned. With...a couple of exceptions, granted. Queens seem deliberately overtuned (to allow zerg to play defence). Maybe a couple of units that really got the nerf hammer like swarm host and reaper are undertuned now. But like...what's better SC2 marines or SC2 siege tanks? I don't think I could really tier that.
How is no one else losing it over immortal in s tier? I think that since both terran and zerg have a gap from 300-500 resources, they kind of class the immortal in with the 200-300 resource "mid price" units, but it costs 375, which is closer to a tempest than to a tank, lib, lurker, viper etc.
Yeah I have no idea why the immortal is in S tier. You could never make it in any matchup and be totally fine. It's not crucial, it isn't the linchpin of any major pushes, there are no builds that revolve around the immortal. It's just a filler unit you make if you build ALREADY HAS a robo and you need to make a fighting unit. The fact that the immortal is in S tier and the marine is in A tier is legitimately hilarious.
Because the Immortal beats every armored ground unit, meaning that their mere existence completely negates the ability to make several otherwise powerful units without the result being an auto-loss. Which is interesting because Immortals are fairly easy to counter, but their presence causes so many other units to become dead weight that they drastically effect the game even when they do nothing. They might have the biggest performance disparity of any unit, because they're laughable garbage vs massed high DPS light units but stopgap the viability of large armored heavy hitters. You can't feasibly make any expensive, high-tier armored ground units against them, and if you do then they can just be produced on reaction and automatically shut those units down anyways. It makes a weird situation where Zerg and Terran can't field armored frontliner units without losing so they do the inverse of practical tactics where their frontliners are the frail high DPS units and their backline units are the heavy, armored heavy hitters (aka why Ultralisks and Thors suck despite seeming very powerful on paper). Basically, Immortals have made other frontline armored tank units useless garbage so any unit within that role becomes useless garbage since that's how crazily strong the influence of Immortals is.
not sure about lurker in S. they are certainly a very sharp tool but not a very versatile one in my opinion. you can only really get them against specific styles and you only have a pretty short window to do damage with them before you have to stop building them, zerglings are definitely S tier as well as some have said. also infestor being higher than oracle is definitely a meme lol. I also think sentry might be a sleeper A, pretty much every protoss comp needs at least one sentry for guardian shield, 2 free armour upgrades is lit as hell
its the contrary about the Lurker, you want to build as MANY of them a you can during that short time period to maximize their effectiveness, aka trying to end the game with them. The same thing with Carriers, you want to get 5-6 Carriers out and start hitting before the opponent can make enough Viking/Corruptor to 1-shot them.
@@tigera6 this is completely wrong, maxed carrier armies are not countered by vikings or corruptors. In an ultra late game comp you would always want carriers as protoss and never want lurkers as zerg.
@@TheAzure4 Show me late game where Protoss can max out on Carrier and A-move into a lategame army of Terran and Zerg? Disruptor DESTROY Carriers on equal supply, and the only reason they cant is because of Storm-Archon, not the Carrier. And Viking can just kite Carriers forever while 1-shot them one-by-one. If Carriers was that OP, Protoss would have turtle on 3 base, drop down 2 Stargate and making Carriers non-stop already. Thats clearly not the case. I never said Lurker is the ultra lategame unit, but they have their timing and you want to push hard when that timing come. The same with the Carrier, you want to hit them when the opponent doesnt have enough counter for it.
@@tigera6 i never said carriers were op or that you would just max out on only carriers. all i'm saying is that comparing them to lurkers is dumb because a carrier is always usefull and lurkers are just not. basically the entirety of 2021 we had protoss players massing carriers, voidrays and batteries and never attacking. The carrier is just not a unit that has a usefulness window. as the game progresses you're always going to want them. lurkers are bad as soon as there is ghosts disruptors or carriers.
@@TheAzure4 You are talking about the build, which is the double Stargate opening straight into lategame Skytoss while skipping all the early tech transition. Thats work in PvZ because Zerg anti-air is awful until they get to the Spire with upgrade and lategame Spellcaster. If the Protoss play it right, they will hit the Zerg at 10 minutes mark with 4-5 Carriers, 7-8 Voirdays when Zerg has Queens, some Hydra and un-upgraded Corrupters, and thats a great timing for Skytoss to hit and win the game. Passing that point, its becoming stalled game for 30-40 minutes when neither side want to attack into each other. Doesnt matter how many Carriers you have by then, game will just slow down. Lurker tech, if used right, can win games. Especially against the pure Bio-Tank army from Terran, or the Gateway army from Protoss, which are the 2 most popular ground army composition. Its just like BLord in some sense, if you make the tech switch at the right time when enemy isnt ready, then you smash and win.
at first i thought you could only consider worker ranks based on themselves cause obviously they have nothing to do with a roach for example, cant compare the units its like comparing a book to a movie. but you are right if you think in a broader way, they are the core of everything so they must be the best unit
By that logic shouldn't lings, ovs, Hydra, roaches, corruptor all get upgraded ratings, since you need them to make bane, overseer, lurker, ravager, and brood lord? Also hellbats / DT would be upgraded since they can make hellion/archon
@@anonymousAJ The difference is the return on investment. Workers allow you to make everything and generates the ressources to do so, every worker you make pays off massively over the course of the game and that's why they are the most built unit (if they weren't worth building, like say they cost 500minerals instead of 50, then people would rush production facilities and not bother building an economy because worker would be bad units in that scenario). A zergling allows you to make a baneline but it doesn't generate the ressources to make a baneling, though I feel like for exemple with zergling the fact that they can get into good positions so efficiently before morphing into banelings plays in their favor, compared to say, hydra being allowed to become lurkers because they're much less flexible in doing so, so the transformation should still be taken into account there but the utility of the unit itself in combat is probably the most major thing it does. As for hellion I feel like it's weird to see hellbat and hellion as two different units, realistically the hellbat is an upgrade of the hellion, having two forms doesn't make them different units (vikings don't have two ranking for the two different modes right?) and the form switch being unlocked later doesn't make it a different unit either, blue flames hellion aren't a different unit to hellion (you could consider them as such but then you'd have to rank every unit with every upgrade combination that sounds very impractical, it's probably better to think more broadly about common use cases and how they scale into the late game). To come back to the initial point I think the idea of adjusting cost is a good way to think about a unit power. Like, if you increase zergling cost and decrease baneling mineral cost accordingly the zergling becomes far worse but the baneling is only marginally worse (slightly worse cause it requires building a bad unit but the general cost effectiveness of the unit is unchanged). If you remove the baneling morph cost entirely it *does* make the zergling stronger while making the baneling massively stronger because you can decide to build tons of zergling and you know if they end up not being useful you can morph them all into baneling for free so it's clear that the ability to morph into something else is part of a unit power, it's just not the only thing to consider. Interestingly if you reduce the price of the zergling and increase the cost of the baneling accordingly despite being the same cost effectiveness it probably make the baneling a lot worse because of the opportunity cost since you're paying a lot to only marginally increase the power of the unit compared to the cost which feels a bit inconsiistent with the first thing I said in that paragraph but I guess that's only true past a cost threshold where the cost isn't worth it compared to the cost of building an additionnal zergling so both can probably be true at once =p Anyway I'm rambling at this point, point is, yes the fact that units morph into others is relevant to their evaluation, it's just not as relevant as for worker because it's a much smaller part of their utility wheras building and gathering is almost the entire utility of workers.
@@machetas All three workers actually have pretty interesting advantages. SCV have a lot of base HP and repair is a very strong ability, but SCV building locks them and make them very vulnerable if defenses aren't done yet. Drones regenerating and having the ability to morph into buildings make them comparatively extremely resilient to harrasment, drones are fairly easy to save and a bruiser drone will go back to full health which means a situation with like, two failed hellion runby iin a row might lead very few casualty while the second attempt against a terran might lead to a lot more casualty as the already damaged scv will not have naturally regenerated. Dying to produce a building is a pretty nasty drawback though, even if the building cost are typically adjusted accordingly Probes have low health but regenerating shield making them pretty bad at combat and vulnerable to harrasment but very strong at early game harrasment and running around the map sometimes taking random shots. Their ability to warp buildings also make them a lot more versatile in that aspect and take much less risk than an SCV.
I feel like Harstem, Scarlett, and Lambo have a much better list. I think a lot of it has to do with them playing the game at a pro level rather than being an observer of the game tho.
This is interesting: Terran has 9 S/A tier units and completely dominates the top, yet Terran whiners will still say that Protoss (7) and Zerg (7) are overpowered and imba.
@@Zeuts85 Appreciate the discussion, but vehemently disagree. Tank is an S-tier ground unit. Its range, damage, and versatility win games. Take the siege tank away and Terran is the worst race. Zerglings themselves aren't a great unit. 3/3 lings aren't that good without banes. What makes zerglings good is the person controlling them, as Life showed. They're an incredibly versatile unit when used to their full potential, but they're also incredibly easy to stop with any splash damage, armor, or a supply depot. Would add that BCs should be S-tier
@@smantie You do know that the current TvZ meta are mainly Widow Mines and Ghost right? Terran dont even need to make Tanks unless Zerg went Roach early. Even when Zerg transition into Lurker, Terran can just fight them with Ghost and Libs instead of Tanks. They are totally fine without making Tanks AFAIK. And Tanks in TvP are great defensively, but they are not good offensively passing mid-game because of the lack of mobility. Terran would just make lots of Bio and doing drop everywhere instead of setting up Seige Tank to attack the Protoss in mid game, or they just replace them with Widow Mines. TvT is the onlyi matchup where Tanks are still used offensively because of the range unit nature of the race. So no, Tank is definitely NOT S-Tier, at least in the current Meta.
@@tigera6 this isn't a tier list of TvZ. What is the current TvT meta? It's highly reliant on tanks. Thanks are still generally built in TvZ for defense as they're the strongest ground unit when you account for range, damage, and splash.
@@smantie I am listing out all 3 match-ups, not just TvZ and clearly the unit cant be S-tier if its not very useful for 2 out of 3 matchups. Tanks are great support unit defensively, but they are not very good offensively. Mines deal better splash damage than tank, range are actually useless against Chargelot-Archon-Ling-Bane, they are also extremely slow during transformation and will 100% die when being out of position. Not to say Tank sucks, but they are not S-tier.
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Would love to see you do another tier list where you grade them based on your opinion of their quality as far as how much they contribute to the game being good or bad (grading their design as opposed to their strength).
Was just about to comment the same thing. Something like a viper would be polarizing.
Disruptor gets its own tier below all the others
Disruptor actually has counterplay, as opposed to vipers, investors, lurkers and queens.
I came here to say the same thing!
Zergling is S for the same reason siege tank is S. Lings give extreme map vision and reaction advantage to the zerg. Entire bases have to be constructed to circumnavigate ling floods. And games can just be instantly lost by the wall being down for 1 second too long with lings running in
Ling was really the only unit I strongly disagreed with. For sure S.
Agreed. Almost no unit is more obviously S-tier than the zergling. Sure they're weak individually, but they're insanely useful and threatening throughout the entire game. Arguably they're just about the most efficient unit in the game in terms of "attention" and risk vs reward. When you split off a good-sized chunk of lings to hit a gap in the enemy's defenses, it costs you very little even if the mission fails utterly. But if it succeeds you often deal massive, crippling damage. To me, this is what makes zerglings OP--the fact that the zerg has this constant, relentless threat that's so cheap and easy to micro that the controlling player barely even needs to think about it. That, and being able to so rapidly and cheaply pump them out to reinforce/mop up a fight is just crazy. How many games has the zerg army and the opponent army ground themselves down against each other, only for a wave of lings to rush in and turn a stalemate into an overwhelming victory for the zerg? Terran and Protoss are so often forced to back off because of the inevitable ling wave that will follow-up every confrontation.
Tasteless has more exp with BW where the ling is way more powerful. In SC2 there's more splash damage, better walls. Lings are much more manageable for Toss and Terran in SC2.
They're still good, but they have a lot of bite taken out of them. They really need Banes to bust walls, or deal with zealots or marines.
I wouldn't say they're S either, maybe you can convince me of A, but B fits them well enough imho.
@@Zeuts85
mmm zerglings are not cheap. If you dun have 2 extra macro hatches in the main like Dark you dun have the larvae to build enough.
And they are very easy to missmicro. Stray WMs on the field will kill 15 lings per shot, Toss and Terran can make really effective walls, if lings are sent to attack while a wall is in place you lose a third of them without damage. They're great If you have a clutch in the corner at all times that can counter attack, or cut off reinforcements.
Most of the time you want to be more larvae efficient so you build roach hydra tho.
You know BYUN is a legendary player when he got a reapers thats ranked D nerfed so many times because of how good he is with them
It's the other way around, the reaper got nerfed because it was too good before, A-tier at least.
After watching the harstem/lambo/scarlett tier list it suddenly seems very silly to put the bc and the marine in the same tier. Same with the oracle and the ultralisk.
That was the best tier list, they actually debated and analysed
Mostly agree, although I'm with chat on the siege tank not being S tier. Even though it's crazy strong, you still see tank lines get absolutely rolled by zerg pretty regularly in a way that SC1 tanks don't.
I think the Queen is the most broken unit, almost in a tier on its own.
Yeah tanks are required in tvt, good in tvz but is map dependent imo and mines are a great alternative. Vs P it has it's place but overall it's not that much used in that matchup
it is easily S tier in two matchups, I don't have to explain tvt, it is unimagineble without tanks. TvZ not 100% required, but absolutely insane, the inly unit that counters it is vipers and it is insane against every other zerg unit, there is few things that scare a zerg player more then a 2 base tank push. Against toss they fall of much quicker, but they are still very very powerful early on. You also need to build at least some tanks in every matchup. The only units that deserve S more is the ghost and queen imo.
Ultralisk is d tier for sure. Super expensive. Useless without both upgrades AND tier 3 carapace upgrade. Clunky. Too much supply. And if all that wasn't enough to deter you, it also has a shelf life.
It's a low tier unit in ZvP and ZvZ but not in ZvT and the main reason why it's seen as weaker is due to the nerfs to root fungal.
"I only make ultralisks when I'm really far ahead and I want to lose." - Destiny
Don't forget that proper positioning is also required or else they'll just derp behind zerglings because for some reason they can't step over tiny units.
I like these quicker edited tier lists with music, makes it much snappier.
I never wanted to fight Tasteless so much.
How does Nick only have 25K subs? Should be 75K.
I know he is on literally every social media platform but there should be a lot more support. Dan has 150K subs and almost 25K for his 2nd channel.
Interesting to compare this to the Tier list that Harstem, Scarlett, and Lambo made. Tasteless kinda takes each unit at face value but not necessarily in a pro meta game sense. While the other 3 took more of a modern 1v1 setting and how often and useful each unit is at a pro gaming level. Especially apparently with units like Tanks, Lurkers, Immortal that are incredibly strong at the "below pro gamer" level, but are more easily handled at the professional level which is why Harstem/Lambo/Scarlett rate it much lower compared to Tasteless.
And also stuff like the oracle, which provides extreme value up until the late game in pro games yet falls off quickly from low gm on
Love these kind of content, keep it coming!
3:00 Not only do ovies in SC2 not detect by default, you have to upgrade drop for each OV, unlike BW
True, but you HAVE to make them if you want to play the game, which by itself has to make it S tier imo, same as all the workers, you have to make them if you want to actually play the game since they have the most OP ability in the game, which is gather.
@@JN_Sc2 By that logic should zerglings be S tier since you have to have them to make Banelings?
@@anonymousAJ Hmm, good point, it's true that my logic is kinda flawed if you want to be consistent, but either way I also don't think you should ignore what workers and overlords provide, gathering resources is definitely one of the most powerful things in an rts.
I feel like rating an overlord is like trying to rate a supply depot. I mean, it does its job. But i might say its A rank b/c unlike pylons and depots it can scout too haha
Hydras are expensive and require t2 and upgrades to be effettive, Also they're rather fragile so yeah I think it's Fair to pit them in B, even though I believe there's an argument to pit them in low A, due to their sheer dps and they absolutely shred protoss gateway units, aside HT with storm!
Behold the power of Skytoss - Oh, wait...
I'm shocked that any Protoss air unit got above D tier.
Ghost used in 2/3 of the matchup still S-tier just how powerful it is in those matchup
idk, seems kinda off to me. I'd set:
S tier - dictates to the opponent how they must play
Queen, Bane, Lurker, Viper, Changeling, Immortal, Prism, Carrier, Mine, Ghost, Mule, Medivac
A tier - generally always want to build this (good against most things)
Zergling, Hydra, Infestor, Pheonix, Oracle, Disruptor, Marine, Marauder, Viking, Liberator
B tier - deals with only a specific problem or has a timer on when the units become less useful
Ravager, Roach, Overseer, Broodlord, Infestor, Colossus, Tempest, Adept, MamaShip, Observer, Stalker, Sentry, HT, Hellion, Reaper, Raven, Thor
C tier - niche/cheese only units
Ultralisk, Mutalisk, Voidray, DTs, HellBat, Banshee, BC,
F tier - actively try to avoid building this unit
Zealot, Swarm Host
I agree with your criteria. This is a much more practical way to rank these than just how abstractly "strong" they are. Otherwise every zerg player is trying to figure out what the hell is wrong with someone who thinks hydras are good enough to even compare to marines.
I do want to ask which zealot hurt you though.
@@justinLooper Thx! Honeslty, zerg is kinda weird just because of the "evolve" a unit route. Like, Lurkers are a ground game defining unit...so you kinda have to make hydra to get to lurker.
And as a toss main, I freakin hate the zealot. Utter trash. Bodied by zergling and marine, absolutely destroyed the second ghost hit the field, yeet themselves into mines, and are barely useful as fodder ONLY AFTER a mid tier upgrade and then useless as soon as lurker or something else is out....just bad...Compared to any other mineral only unit or 2 supply unit it's a complete waste.
Add to that, the number of SC2 games I've watched where a person going skytoss breaks their "interceptor" mineral bank by wasting trash zealots in pointless run by's...
Simply put, zealot is too slow to be useful in early game, decent in the mid, and useless in the late game. Literally just a HP pool to put in front of literally any other unit. And the worst tool for a run by compared to marine drop or zergling runby or hellion or adept or widowmine.
Gotta like the vid asap because I too put baneling as best unit.
Honestly creep tumor should have been a unit more than brooding. Creep tumors are absolutely insane
What is the background music?
Ranked based on what?
stormgate = like
I am thinking, the terran unit that can repair is not a positive for the units but a positive for scv. scv can repair has more health than other workers, can repair each others. So scv should be a B tier unit imo
What's the software he's using to build this rank list? this is awesome.
pretty sure it's tiermaker
tasteless how many games has zerg won with ZERGLINGS ONLY? its def A tier
Tank is S tier in a version of SC2 that never had vipers, ravangers, broodlords, disruptors, or storm
Storm against tanks?? Strom sucks against terran in general bc of the ghost, but against tanks? Disruptors also don't counter tanks, broods are very expensive very high tech very slow units, the noly way broods are a problem is if you are on pure tank, ravagers are a soft counter, but with good micro and positioning they aren't nearly as effective, they are also really expensive and don't trade well with bio at all. Vipers are busted and hard counter tanks, but they are a t3 unit and ghosts exist. All in all tanks are easy S
comparing this list to Harstem/Scarlett/Lambo's list is... interesting xD
this list is like almost perfectly backwards lol
Oracle in B? It can harass, give vision, and stasis whole armies. If that isn't at least an A tier unit idk man.
In practice it only kills a couple of workers most games and stasis almost never comes into play, I think A is defensible on oracle but B does sit better with me.
@@Junebug89 Hastem, Scarlet, and Lambo put it in S on their list today. I feel validated.
Immortal shouldn't be in S, there are no "immortal builds" any more and you can just ignore it in every matchup and be totally fine. The marine, by comparison, should definitely be in S. Probably the zergling too but I think A is defensible for ling, B is not. Phoenix and cyclone should probably swap places, I don't think there's any way to argue that the phoenix isn't a considerably better unit than the cyclone. Battlecruisers should be down in B, they are not really that useful later in the game and mostly only see play in one matchup. Liberators could probably be argued to be A (for their use in actual armies, not harass potential), and I don't even see widow mine on here, but it has to be S tier surely.
Definitely correct about the phoenix, used in all matchups and causes PvP to be a phoenix war in many cases. I think Tasteless just hasn't played SC2 for a while.
Marine is at worst the 2nd best unit in the game, let alone S tier. Pretty crazy to put it below immortal which is low C tier at best.
Love videos like this
Reaper D is insane
That's why protoss needs a buff
00s: age of BW
10s: age of SC2
20s: age of tierlists
helion should be C just for the fact that it can transofrm into a hellbat
Mothership was S-tier in WoL, then the devs said "no fun allowed," got rid of black hole, and made it F-tier
Then again it was fun only for protoss players, not so much for terrans or zergs.
I think SC2 has too many units designed to counter sieges tanks for it to be S. They're also 3 supply in this game compared to 2 in Broodwar, and that's a big difference nobody understands or talks about.
Supply cost is a balancing tool Blizzard failed to use a lot during the life of SC2. Queens would be so much more balanced at 3 supply for example.
Increasing the queen's size would also have helped in making it less effective in fights. More body blocking and less effective concaves at larger numbers.
Even with all the units that counter siege tanks, it is such a staple in Terran vs anything that it overcomes all its faults. I'm not suggesting mass siege tank purely, but with other units like vikings for vision and being able to work in tandem with the MMM offensively and defensively, they make one of the greatest SC2 units.
Queens at 3 supply would massively wreck early game zerg. With 1 queen at each base for injects, plus at least a couple more for creep spread and defense, early game zerg would just eat up too much supply for 3-supply queens. I actually think they're at a fair balance at the moment with removing the ability to transfuse off-creep. If there's a nerf to the queens, there must be a nerf to the early harass units that forces out the queens too in the first place, like hellion runbys, or early BC.
@@hetaresgaming7771 Yeah but the fact Zerg defends itself by just making 8 to 12 queens IS the problem, especially since they don't interact with larvaes at all, not the fact they need to do it to fend off harass.
Forcing zerg to use larvaes in some ways ( be it units or using drones for more defensives structures ) would rebalance zerg economic power a lot.
The source of thje problem has always been zerg getting an unit they can make outside of their intended balancing mechanism.
@@Nooctae Not really. Making 8-12 queens take a lot of time, and I'm pretty sure by the time 12 queens are made we would be getting into the mid-game, whereby queens fall off in usefulness. It also delays the lair- you cannot upgrade or get lair tech while making queens, which is also a limiting factor zergs have to consider. Say the standard first terran bio-tank push is happening- one would have to scout it about 2-3 minutes prior and get lair, baneling nest to prep for the attack. Queens on their own do terrible against stim-upgraded marines with tank/medvac support.
@@hetaresgaming7771 The thing is top Zerg has figured out how to defend that first tank push without full Lair tech, just speed ling and Queens is enough. You dont need to rush Lair tech for defensive purpose as Zerg anymore, hell they can even go with double evol upgrade before Lair and Bane Speed with 3 base full of economy without any fear of being punished. Thats all the because they have enough Queens to defend against any kind of early push from Terran.
Carrier under hydras lol
Excellent list with good reasoning.
Widow mines and queens are criminally violating their fantasy as offensive units.
Zerg so op so much S!
I think Lings are too low. To be in the same tier as hydras seems wrong to me. They are so fast and can transform into bombs. Love lings so I’m biased lol
Yeah, he was clearly getting bored/tired with it by the time he got to zergling, so I think his brain didn't even process it. If he had done Zergling first, they would have been the easiest S-tier choice of all units.
Now let the teirs fight eachother :p
It's interesting to see how much pro players' opinions differ in these tier lists.
Always diversity in thought- except Void Ray appears dead last in all.
My opinion about Queens is much more emotional than this 🤣
Muta in A?? Definitely disagree, it's got way too many counters to ever find a niche. WM and Phoenix almost completely shut them down. And they don't trade well against any unit that can shoot back at them 😆
Baneling higher than marine XD
Am I delusional, or are you ranking almost every Terran unit one rank below where they truly belong (except cyclone and the S tier). For instance, I'd never put marauders/marines on the same line as mutalisk. And lurker is super impactful, but they're not cheap either it's kind of a "critical mass" unit, except it's late game.
and I can't understand the thought process behind Ultralisk and Zergling being on the same tier.
Stalker is too high, IMO. It's a well designed unit, but it loses to literally *every* other ground unit in the game pound-for-pound. By a lot in most cases. Don't get me wrong, it shouldn't be buffed, but it's just not very strong.
I think A is good for it, because although everything you said is right, it's extremely versatile and gets used in every matchup for that reason.
Thats exaggerated. It doesnt lose to reapers, hellions, hallbats, banelings, templar, or ultras. Its super strong early, can all-in, can kill off drops or retreating units, and still has a place lategame b/c it can snipe key units
Gold tier take
Can't wait to get into ranked and get destroyed, hope the bots I face lvl up quickly, can't tell if liberator rush is good.
High templar is S.
This is a tier list made from a person living 20 patches in the past.
Collosus above Zergling, Oracle, Hellion, DT is ridiculous. Immortal used to be a high S unit being completely Core in 2 of the 3 matchups, is now rarely used at all at high levels of play.
Marine and Stalker are clearly S tier units. Core in all parts of the game in every matchup, can win games on their own.
Most of S is right other than Immortal and Lurker. The Lurker is A at best. At the pro level it's B or C.
7:30 I'd put obs in D because Oracle exists
It's not like BW where obs is the only choice for mobile detection
oracle can detect?
@@MrFaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa their revelation ability can
Disruptor is S for sure. 1 good hit can change the game entirely! And it happens so often.
Same goes for widow mine. This should be in SS tier if possible because it just hits without micro. It regularly kills 20-30 zerlings in pro matches.
Viper is no S. Maybe A. Viper is expensive and it takes a long time to be functional. If they had consume like defiler it's S tier for sure.
No way disruptor is S. The 1 in a 1000 shots don't make it S. It is very micro intensive, most shots don't hit anything, just zone the enemy. At high level people split so well it is quite mediocre, at low level people blow up more of their own units, then the enemy's. It also doesn't hit air and hard countered by vipers and to an extent phoenix.
Widow mines is S on low level, but at high level people split well enough and doesn't get nearly as much value.
Viper is the best spellcaster in the game after ghosts, it is insane. Every spellcaster is expensive and high tech. Consume is busted already, abduct is just free value, parasitic bomb pretty much single handedly destroyes air, and blinding cloud can be insane against terran and zerg, hard counters both tanks and lurkers, it is also really good against clumped up bio.
@@norberthiz9318 ua-cam.com/video/Vmh_IhcK1qY/v-deo.html
@@tsenguun the only thing they disaggreed with me was the viper, so im not sure what is your point
SCV should be A IMHO - repair is an insane ability, definitely way better than probe/drone
Probe is definitely the best worker
at least one guy in the chat needs to calm down
Is it the guy who said every single unit "used to be good"? haha
Overlord's are an S to high A, they move fast, great scouts can become overseers which can detect and drop, and you're always going to have a lot of them.
didnt watch the video yet, i dont play starcraft for many many years now, i will say the absolute best unit by very far are queens.
80% of the video is tasteless sayng it has his moments
Reaper one of the worst units in the game? Yeah, checks out. Anyone else remember 2010 though? 3 rax Reaper rush mirrors all day, with the cliff-jumping plus the massive vs building damage. Makes me wonder how a version of the game with all the most OP versions of everything would look like.
Immortal is a B At best how many times do you see someone mass Them And marine is clearly a S
I don’t think siege tank is that good, unplayable in tvp, easily countered in tvz. Only good in tvt
12:15 no way lurker is S this game, low A IMO
welp, disagree with almost every single one, but hey, i watched to the end
no
I feel like you vastly overrated the immortal. It's not even that Meta right now. A minus tier. If you put it in B i wouldn't be insulted but I would just barely put it in A.
SC2 is inherently just a game where it's awkward to tier units because there have been so many balance patches where units have been tuned up or down by small numerical amounts like 5 health, so there's very few cases of "wow the numbers on this unit are just really high/low". For the most part it's not like brood war, where some units are noticeably overtuned, and other units are noticeably undertuned.
With...a couple of exceptions, granted. Queens seem deliberately overtuned (to allow zerg to play defence). Maybe a couple of units that really got the nerf hammer like swarm host and reaper are undertuned now.
But like...what's better SC2 marines or SC2 siege tanks? I don't think I could really tier that.
DTs #1 for sure... only auto win unit
MY question is do all these units have ALL upgrades or is this a base tier list. Because a templar without storm ....
It's fitting you are wearing the feminine earring while talking about starcraft 2 units.
Baneling too high cost too much larvae and resources
Tanks definetly are not S tier unit.
Its crazy how different your list is compared to Hastrem/Scarlett/Guy who I dont remember his name.
Lambo. He is a German Zerg player.
bruh, zealot is the most op unit in the entire game.
Check the in game trailer in 2008. Its op since the very begining.
How is no one else losing it over immortal in s tier?
I think that since both terran and zerg have a gap from 300-500 resources, they kind of class the immortal in with the 200-300 resource "mid price" units, but it costs 375, which is closer to a tempest than to a tank, lib, lurker, viper etc.
Yeah I have no idea why the immortal is in S tier. You could never make it in any matchup and be totally fine. It's not crucial, it isn't the linchpin of any major pushes, there are no builds that revolve around the immortal. It's just a filler unit you make if you build ALREADY HAS a robo and you need to make a fighting unit. The fact that the immortal is in S tier and the marine is in A tier is legitimately hilarious.
Because the Immortal beats every armored ground unit, meaning that their mere existence completely negates the ability to make several otherwise powerful units without the result being an auto-loss. Which is interesting because Immortals are fairly easy to counter, but their presence causes so many other units to become dead weight that they drastically effect the game even when they do nothing. They might have the biggest performance disparity of any unit, because they're laughable garbage vs massed high DPS light units but stopgap the viability of large armored heavy hitters.
You can't feasibly make any expensive, high-tier armored ground units against them, and if you do then they can just be produced on reaction and automatically shut those units down anyways. It makes a weird situation where Zerg and Terran can't field armored frontliner units without losing so they do the inverse of practical tactics where their frontliners are the frail high DPS units and their backline units are the heavy, armored heavy hitters (aka why Ultralisks and Thors suck despite seeming very powerful on paper). Basically, Immortals have made other frontline armored tank units useless garbage so any unit within that role becomes useless garbage since that's how crazily strong the influence of Immortals is.
this list needed more ranks thats why it got so fucked i think
Oracle is an s for sure
I agree that tanks are not that good. They siege too slow, and disruptors actually outrange them. For me tank A, disruptor S.
not sure about lurker in S. they are certainly a very sharp tool but not a very versatile one in my opinion. you can only really get them against specific styles and you only have a pretty short window to do damage with them before you have to stop building them, zerglings are definitely S tier as well as some have said. also infestor being higher than oracle is definitely a meme lol. I also think sentry might be a sleeper A, pretty much every protoss comp needs at least one sentry for guardian shield, 2 free armour upgrades is lit as hell
its the contrary about the Lurker, you want to build as MANY of them a you can during that short time period to maximize their effectiveness, aka trying to end the game with them. The same thing with Carriers, you want to get 5-6 Carriers out and start hitting before the opponent can make enough Viking/Corruptor to 1-shot them.
@@tigera6 this is completely wrong, maxed carrier armies are not countered by vikings or corruptors. In an ultra late game comp you would always want carriers as protoss and never want lurkers as zerg.
@@TheAzure4 Show me late game where Protoss can max out on Carrier and A-move into a lategame army of Terran and Zerg? Disruptor DESTROY Carriers on equal supply, and the only reason they cant is because of Storm-Archon, not the Carrier. And Viking can just kite Carriers forever while 1-shot them one-by-one.
If Carriers was that OP, Protoss would have turtle on 3 base, drop down 2 Stargate and making Carriers non-stop already. Thats clearly not the case.
I never said Lurker is the ultra lategame unit, but they have their timing and you want to push hard when that timing come. The same with the Carrier, you want to hit them when the opponent doesnt have enough counter for it.
@@tigera6 i never said carriers were op or that you would just max out on only carriers. all i'm saying is that comparing them to lurkers is dumb because a carrier is always usefull and lurkers are just not. basically the entirety of 2021 we had protoss players massing carriers, voidrays and batteries and never attacking. The carrier is just not a unit that has a usefulness window. as the game progresses you're always going to want them. lurkers are bad as soon as there is ghosts disruptors or carriers.
@@TheAzure4 You are talking about the build, which is the double Stargate opening straight into lategame Skytoss while skipping all the early tech transition. Thats work in PvZ because Zerg anti-air is awful until they get to the Spire with upgrade and lategame Spellcaster. If the Protoss play it right, they will hit the Zerg at 10 minutes mark with 4-5 Carriers, 7-8 Voirdays when Zerg has Queens, some Hydra and un-upgraded Corrupters, and thats a great timing for Skytoss to hit and win the game.
Passing that point, its becoming stalled game for 30-40 minutes when neither side want to attack into each other. Doesnt matter how many Carriers you have by then, game will just slow down.
Lurker tech, if used right, can win games. Especially against the pure Bio-Tank army from Terran, or the Gateway army from Protoss, which are the 2 most popular ground army composition. Its just like BLord in some sense, if you make the tech switch at the right time when enemy isnt ready, then you smash and win.
Probe is s tier. Can single handledly end a game via cannon rush
Every worker has to be S tier, they are the only reason you can make the other units after all right.
at first i thought you could only consider worker ranks based on themselves cause obviously they have nothing to do with a roach for example, cant compare the units its like comparing a book to a movie. but you are right if you think in a broader way, they are the core of everything so they must be the best unit
By that logic shouldn't lings, ovs, Hydra, roaches, corruptor all get upgraded ratings, since you need them to make bane, overseer, lurker, ravager, and brood lord?
Also hellbats / DT would be upgraded since they can make hellion/archon
@@anonymousAJ The difference is the return on investment. Workers allow you to make everything and generates the ressources to do so, every worker you make pays off massively over the course of the game and that's why they are the most built unit (if they weren't worth building, like say they cost 500minerals instead of 50, then people would rush production facilities and not bother building an economy because worker would be bad units in that scenario).
A zergling allows you to make a baneline but it doesn't generate the ressources to make a baneling, though I feel like for exemple with zergling the fact that they can get into good positions so efficiently before morphing into banelings plays in their favor, compared to say, hydra being allowed to become lurkers because they're much less flexible in doing so, so the transformation should still be taken into account there but the utility of the unit itself in combat is probably the most major thing it does.
As for hellion I feel like it's weird to see hellbat and hellion as two different units, realistically the hellbat is an upgrade of the hellion, having two forms doesn't make them different units (vikings don't have two ranking for the two different modes right?) and the form switch being unlocked later doesn't make it a different unit either, blue flames hellion aren't a different unit to hellion (you could consider them as such but then you'd have to rank every unit with every upgrade combination that sounds very impractical, it's probably better to think more broadly about common use cases and how they scale into the late game).
To come back to the initial point I think the idea of adjusting cost is a good way to think about a unit power. Like, if you increase zergling cost and decrease baneling mineral cost accordingly the zergling becomes far worse but the baneling is only marginally worse (slightly worse cause it requires building a bad unit but the general cost effectiveness of the unit is unchanged). If you remove the baneling morph cost entirely it *does* make the zergling stronger while making the baneling massively stronger because you can decide to build tons of zergling and you know if they end up not being useful you can morph them all into baneling for free so it's clear that the ability to morph into something else is part of a unit power, it's just not the only thing to consider. Interestingly if you reduce the price of the zergling and increase the cost of the baneling accordingly despite being the same cost effectiveness it probably make the baneling a lot worse because of the opportunity cost since you're paying a lot to only marginally increase the power of the unit compared to the cost which feels a bit inconsiistent with the first thing I said in that paragraph but I guess that's only true past a cost threshold where the cost isn't worth it compared to the cost of building an additionnal zergling so both can probably be true at once =p
Anyway I'm rambling at this point, point is, yes the fact that units morph into others is relevant to their evaluation, it's just not as relevant as for worker because it's a much smaller part of their utility wheras building and gathering is almost the entire utility of workers.
SCV can repair and it puts it above other two workers.
@@machetas All three workers actually have pretty interesting advantages.
SCV have a lot of base HP and repair is a very strong ability, but SCV building locks them and make them very vulnerable if defenses aren't done yet.
Drones regenerating and having the ability to morph into buildings make them comparatively extremely resilient to harrasment, drones are fairly easy to save and a bruiser drone will go back to full health which means a situation with like, two failed hellion runby iin a row might lead very few casualty while the second attempt against a terran might lead to a lot more casualty as the already damaged scv will not have naturally regenerated. Dying to produce a building is a pretty nasty drawback though, even if the building cost are typically adjusted accordingly
Probes have low health but regenerating shield making them pretty bad at combat and vulnerable to harrasment but very strong at early game harrasment and running around the map sometimes taking random shots. Their ability to warp buildings also make them a lot more versatile in that aspect and take much less risk than an SCV.
I feel like Harstem, Scarlett, and Lambo have a much better list. I think a lot of it has to do with them playing the game at a pro level rather than being an observer of the game tho.
Definitely swap the Archon and Immortal. The Archon is clearly the better of the 2.
Putting a collosus higher than the carrier is illegal
This is interesting: Terran has 9 S/A tier units and completely dominates the top, yet Terran whiners will still say that Protoss (7) and Zerg (7) are overpowered and imba.
This tier list is just wrong. Tank should be A-tier, Immortal should be A-tier, Zergling should be S-tier.
@@Zeuts85 Appreciate the discussion, but vehemently disagree. Tank is an S-tier ground unit. Its range, damage, and versatility win games. Take the siege tank away and Terran is the worst race.
Zerglings themselves aren't a great unit. 3/3 lings aren't that good without banes. What makes zerglings good is the person controlling them, as Life showed. They're an incredibly versatile unit when used to their full potential, but they're also incredibly easy to stop with any splash damage, armor, or a supply depot.
Would add that BCs should be S-tier
@@smantie You do know that the current TvZ meta are mainly Widow Mines and Ghost right? Terran dont even need to make Tanks unless Zerg went Roach early. Even when Zerg transition into Lurker, Terran can just fight them with Ghost and Libs instead of Tanks. They are totally fine without making Tanks AFAIK.
And Tanks in TvP are great defensively, but they are not good offensively passing mid-game because of the lack of mobility. Terran would just make lots of Bio and doing drop everywhere instead of setting up Seige Tank to attack the Protoss in mid game, or they just replace them with Widow Mines. TvT is the onlyi matchup where Tanks are still used offensively because of the range unit nature of the race.
So no, Tank is definitely NOT S-Tier, at least in the current Meta.
@@tigera6 this isn't a tier list of TvZ. What is the current TvT meta? It's highly reliant on tanks. Thanks are still generally built in TvZ for defense as they're the strongest ground unit when you account for range, damage, and splash.
@@smantie I am listing out all 3 match-ups, not just TvZ and clearly the unit cant be S-tier if its not very useful for 2 out of 3 matchups. Tanks are great support unit defensively, but they are not very good offensively. Mines deal better splash damage than tank, range are actually useless against Chargelot-Archon-Ling-Bane, they are also extremely slow during transformation and will 100% die when being out of position.
Not to say Tank sucks, but they are not S-tier.
The best unit in the game is always whatever you need at that second lol
yikes Lings are B? artosis is somewhere really upset by that. Lings are A, maybe S.