I recorded this video the day before Donald Sutherland died 😔 RIP (similar to when Cormac McCarthy died the day before I released my video for No Country for Old Men!)
And my mom never saw this movie so that wrong has been rectified. She loved it & totally agrees with pretty much all of us that he deserved an Oscar nod for this performance
Something that a modern viewer won't get (but I do, because, well, I'm old) is that several of the main actors were known almost exclusively for their comedy work. The fact that Mary Tyler Moore, Judd Hirsch and Donald Sutherland were cast in such a poignant drama was mind-blowing. I remember specifically for MTM that her casting was questioned before the movie came out and she won a whole new huge group of fans for having pulled it off so well.
ORDINARY PEOPLE was one of my mother's favorite books. She was obsessed with it even before the movie. My mother and I were very close and both shared a love of books and films together. I was a freshman in high school when the film was released, and my mother made us go see it the first weekend it was released. She liked it, but she felt the book was better, but she did really like it. I loved the movie, and it inspired me to then read the book. And then several months later we went to see it again, and she was able to just give over and love it, free of how she felt about the book. it was a special and favorite movie and book between us both. I am now in my mid-50's, and my mother has alzheimers and no longer knows who I am. She's lived in the midwest my whole adult life, while I have lived on the east coast in the big city. I miss her very much. but I had many good times with her, over the years and I know how much she loved me, and she knows how much I loved her. she also loved that section of the book you wrote about Beth saving Conrad's drawings. she thought that was beautiful. thank you. I am thrilled to see anyone extolling the virtues of this wonderful book and this wonderful film. thanks for posting.
"Buck never would have been in the Hospital". 44 years later I still remember these hurtful words the Mother says to Conrad when she's angry at him. This movie gutted me. Saw it in the theater in 1980 as a sophomore in High School when one teacher made it a homework assignment. When Conrad's finds out his friend Karen killed herself soon after they met at a restaurant after she seemed so cheerful devastated me. Maybe because I was the same exact age when I saw film as the Conrad character that this movie had an enormous impact on me as a teenager. Great job once again Laura breaking things down. RIP Donald Sutherland. Highly recommend watching some UA-cam clips of him on various talk shows which I've done since his death. Such a lovely man.
I think Donald Sutherland should have been nominated for an Oscar, as I thought his acting performance in the film was great. I would imagine it is difficult for an actor to give a great performance in a film that wins Best Picture and not be nominated for an Oscar, especially when three of his fellow cast mates were given Oscar nominations for their acting in this amazing film.
I think we’ve all said that it’s odd he never got an Oscar nod here along with Mary and Timothy, but maybe it’s cause Hutton was up for Supporting Actor and the Academy didn’t want to have choose between them
Thanks! I have thought of focusing on a specific genre as a way to target a more niche audience, but I haven't done that because I love covering a variety of topics!
I have never read the book but watched the movie so many times since i was a teenager it has aged very well to me because many people can understand this film im glad it won best picture Robert Redford did a great job directing and mary Tyler moore was terrific in the film i was shocked seeing how diffrent she is along with the late Donald Sutherland
It’s like the polar opposite of his performance in “Don’t Look Now” where he plays a father who loses his daughter in a tragic accident (weirdly similar to the inciting incident for this movie here), but kinda behaves like Beth in this film with DLN’s John Baxter wanting to just accept Christine (the daughter) is gone and help his wife, the wonderful Julie Christie’s Laura, move on and rebuild their life. However that one has a much more downbeat ending; if you know, you know 😉
My personal DS performance is (in Italian!), the little known 1900,@@LucyLioness100... It also has SterlingHayden, RobertDeniro, & GerardDeipardu, in a 4 hr spectacular!
I will never forget the night I went to see Ordinary People. I don't think I had read the book yet and went in knowing nothing about what I going to see. Growing up with emotionally distant parent myself I definitely connected with Conrad and his struggle to reach out to his mother and getting nothing. I was about 16 at the time I saw the film. Films targeted at my age range never really appealed to me and gravitated towards more mature films. I exited the theatre and walked home in a state of shock at what I had just watched. It was a real emotional beating, but I don't recall it being a depressing experience. Maybe if the film had ended differently it might have been but there is a bit of hope. What Conrad fails to find with his mother he rediscovered with his father. The performances by everyone in the cast is outstanding. But as I grew older I started to understand how tragic Calvin was. Not only did he lose a son, but now he was watching what remains of his family drifting apart. The most devastating scene is in the garage between Calvin and Beth. He's suddenly beginning to see the nature of his relationship with his wife as he recalls an incident when they were dressing for Bucky's funeral. Donald Sutherland's performance is heartbreaking and I see him as the centerpiece of the story. Mary Tyler Moore is not Laura Petrie or Mary Richards and is a sliver of ice. It's been a long since I've read the book and cannot recall if it explores anything of her background. Usually people like this come from similar environments, another link in a chain that they refuse to address as a flaw and copy that behavior. I imagine one or both of her parents were like this. But sometimes even if one comes from a loving home there is something that triggers this behavior. The one scene that was like a punch to my gut was when Conrad calls the girl he was in the mental hospital with and discovers that she had just killed herself. Like I said, the experience left me wrung out and I probably spent the rest of the evening trying to process it. It certainly deserved the awards, although I think The Elephant Man was just as worthy that year.
Thanks for sharing! Such an amazing movie with something new to notice and appreciate on each viewing. Neither book or movie go too much into Beth's upbringing but the movie has that scene when her parents are watching Conrad while they are out of town. And Conrad goes in his room and Beth's mom can tell something is wrong but she just peeks out her door and then goes back in without talking to him. So I think that tells us how her parents also avoided difficult conversations.
Well, they both end up on the "Banned List" every year and they both deal with very observant, yet self-destructive adolescents. Conrad in OP is just back from a mental hospital (after a messy suicide attempt) and Catcher's Holden is telling his story to an unnamed person at a mental hospital. Since Holden's meltdown took place after the main body of his story, we are not told what brought him to confinement in a California sanitarium, but it just had to be something big. Conrad attempted to kill himself because neither he nor his parents knew how to deal with their grief, sense of helplessness and anger at the death of the star offspring of the family (Buck) who was the ultra-extrovert, beloved jock whose privilege as the indulged, first-born led him into some reckless and dangerous behavior. Salinger's novel (not really intended for teenagers) was a contemporary answer to Twain's Adventures of Huckleberry Finn. It's moral was that a certain amount of hypocrisy was necessary to function in society. The similarities between the two books (Catcher in The Rye and Ordinary People) ends about there. Ordinary people is not an indictment of hypocritical American society as Twain or Salinger saw it. It is far more personal than that. Ordinary People is about how many of us choose to shield ourselves from the unpleasantness of our lives with good manners, fake cheerfulness and the meaningless things money can buy. People at the bottom may use street drugs to escape the pain, those in the middle may choose Martinis, book clubs and pain meds, but those at the top of the heap take trips to Europe, buy houses and cars and conduct discreet extramarital affairs. As the old joke goes "Money can't buy happiness, but you'll have fun trying..." Holden Caulfield wants to stay himself, not become a grown-up, he does not at all wish to step into a polluted adulthood and we sense J.D. Salinger is on his side. Conrad wants to grow--he is trying to grow, but he doesn't know how. He has a limited emotional vocabulary. His father has little and his mother has none. In Judy Guest's Ordinary People, we have the benefit of seeing deeply into the protagonists homelife. The novel alternates point of view chapter by chapter between Conrad and his father, Calvin. We only encounter the person of the mother, Beth through the eyes of her husband and son. Beth gets less than a page near the conclusion of the book hinting at why she is the emotional cripple she has become. Her upbringing and class background demanded that she be perfect in all things--in every possible situation. She has spent her life trying to transform herself into what others expect of her. This family of three hasi its problems, but Beth's might be the most intractable. In Huck Finn and Catcher in The Rye, the authors both have a great deal of fun satirizing the American bourgeoise of the day. Guest plays fair with the Jarretts in OP; money isn't their problem and they are conservative in their display of affluence. They are tasteful. Perhaps too tasteful... In the end of Salinger's novel, Holden doesn't have a clue about his future. He imagines running away, but to where? Conrad in Ordinary People can see the light at the end of the tunnel. His sympathetic psychotherapist has taught him how to express emotions in a serviceable way. OP has an epilogue set some months after the action in the narrative concludes. Conrad has, not surprisingly, become the person he should have always been. Now, that's not a spoiler, is it?
This movie is way too overlooked by the general public. Film snobs hate on it only cause it beat “Raging Bull” for Picture and Director at the Oscars which is completely unfair to Redford and his talented cast’s hard work on this film. Timothy Hutton is just heartbreaking as Conrad, Mary Tyler Moore as Beth was probably her best film performance ever, Donald Sutherland as the caring yet grieving father often gets overlooked but is always fantastic & Judd Hirsch as Dr. Burger does a great job as the voice of reason to this dysfunctional family
@@WhytheBookWins it’s an okay movie, but not Scorsese’s best IMO. This one tackles tough subjects in a tasteful way & doesn’t trivialize what the characters are going through or allowing Conrad to get therapy and not be judged for it compared to how even today’s real world, movies or shows will still treat therapy
Not you calling me out in the first sentence I used to have that mindset until I saw ordinary people and it’s understandable why it won the best picture Oscar
I think Beth is the most complex and misunderstood character is this drama. The way I interpret Beth's behavior is she was a woman from a very upper-middle class family that was extremely aware of their class status, and she was raised in a family where family members were expected to act according to their roles. Now, I think it's vital that we remember this film was made in 1979-1980, and the book was written in 1976. This means, if Beth was 38 to 42 years old in this story, she was born in the late 1930's while the country was still going through the Great Depression and raised through WW2. If her father had a business, or was a high-status professional, then it was very important for him to project competence and professionalism, and for the family to project an under-stated classiness (large home in an upper-class neighborhood, well-mannered, and nicely dressed - but in an inconspicuous way) to ensure and secure their status and income. I think the reason Beth reacted to the loss of Buck the way she did was because Kalvin showed and expressed his feelings and emotions, which is something she probably didn't see men do when she was growing up. She expected Kalvin to be the stoic patriarch, which would have made her feel safe to reveal and show her feelings and emotions. Instead, Kalvin reacted emotionally, which she perceived as weakness. As a result, Beth reacted stoically to "hold the family together" in an attempt to move the family through the crisis, get Kalvin back to work, and get Conrad back to school. I think she was raised to understand that wealth and status aren't ensured; that the slightest missteps can destroy careers and erase years of hard work. While that may sound shallow, that she would place such importance on status and material possessions, I think she also understood that losing a home and possibly enduring a personal bankruptcy can be almost as devastating to a family's survival as the loss of a family member. Although she was just a little girl when the depression and WW2 was ongoing, I'm sure she was raised hearing stories of families that lost everything during those years. I think Kalvin's reaction to Buck's death frightened her because she didn't expect Kalvin to handle the loss of Buck the way he did, and she was worried it would spill over into his professional life and jeopardize his career which she depended on for their survival. While the loss of Buck was difficult enough for her, she almost lost her other son, Conrad, when he attempted to take his own life. I think Beth perceived Conrad's attempt as a selfish act. In her mind, she was doing everything she could to "hold the family together," to restore order and normalcy again for their survival, then Conrad purposefully inflicted another trauma on the family. I think she took that very personally, as though Conrad was being ungrateful; ungrateful for his survival, ungrateful for his family's survival, ungrateful for his home, and ungrateful for her effort to maintain what they still had after losing Buck. Because Kalvin was not the stoic patriarch she thought she married, she felt she had to step up and fill that roll; a roll that was unnatural for her, but a roll she felt was necessary for someone to fill. In her mind, they all couldn't succumb to their emotions because that could be dangerous to the family's long-term survival. If there is a person to blame the most for the family falling apart, it's Kalvin. Had Kalvin reacted to the loss of Buck with the patriarchal strength and stoicism Beth needed, it would have freed Beth to be the nurturer, and both Beth and Conrad would have felt safer to really feel and express their emotions together. Is it fair to expect men to "suck it up and man up" through a family crisis? No, but leaderless families are often the most chaotic families, and chaotic families are rarely healthy families; many do not survive intact. Beth understood this; unfortunately, Kalvin did not.
I watched this movie again today, probably my fifth or sixth time watching it. It is just so good. The family reminds me of my family growing up. Everything was compartmentalized. My parents would make things appear ok in the 80s and 90s sometimes even when they weren’t, to keep up appearances. I think part of the reason was because they were part of the Silent Generation, where people didn’t talk about deep things openly. I will say also that this movie always felt like it inspired Good Will Hunting. Tonight watching it, I could see that it also most likely inspired the movie American Beauty. Both of those movies also won multiple Oscars.
Interestedly much of the commentary at the original reviews ( Im very old) that Berger is Jewish bringing the WASP vs. Other cultures approach to death.
@@WhytheBookWins You're probably right. If they do remake it, they will sure replace the father and child with a DEI cast. In order to win an Oscar/Awards, movies now will need to comply with the new compulsory DEI pre-requisites before even thinking about getting a nomination.
@TheNinjaMarmot considering this is a very universal story of the human experience, it would be just as effective regardless of what race plays these characters.
@@WhytheBookWins Unfortunately, inevitably, with these types of cast changes comes race baiting and ideology. We'll wait and see, but I'm usually disappointed that this is pursued in many remakes even overriding the messages or tone in the original material. What I loved about the movie (I haven't read the book) was there was no superheroes, no supernatural/freak event. It was sincere and quite hard hitting. There is no easy way to say it. There is no deux ex machina, no wonder drug. It is what it is. And life is like that.
this is a real issue for you this DEI diversity stuff isn't it? so much so that you are even complaining here about a situation that hasn't actually happened (a remake of ORDINARY PEOPLE). You know how many actresses of color have won the Oscar in the 96 years that the Oscar has been given? 10. 10. it's been given 96 times. only 2 times has the best actress award gone to a woman of color (Michelle Yeoh and Halle Berry) the other 8 wins were best supporting. 10 women out of 96. why do you feel it is so mis-weighted? do you need every movie to only be about white people? why does this matter so much to you? were you robbed of the Oscar one year by Hattie McDaniel? I am confused why this bee is buzzing so strongly in your bonnet. if you look around-there are more than enough white artists winning awards over the years, and certainly even today. why do you worry about all this to this degree? also the Supreme Court turned DEI and affirmative action around and effectively off for the u.s. now. shouldn't you just be celebrating? instead of still being frustrated by potential scenarios that don't even exist around diversity.
I recorded this video the day before Donald Sutherland died 😔 RIP
(similar to when Cormac McCarthy died the day before I released my video for No Country for Old Men!)
Talk about sad irony. He was one of the best character actors
And my mom never saw this movie so that wrong has been rectified. She loved it & totally agrees with pretty much all of us that he deserved an Oscar nod for this performance
Something that a modern viewer won't get (but I do, because, well, I'm old) is that several of the main actors were known almost exclusively for their comedy work. The fact that Mary Tyler Moore, Judd Hirsch and Donald Sutherland were cast in such a poignant drama was mind-blowing. I remember specifically for MTM that her casting was questioned before the movie came out and she won a whole new huge group of fans for having pulled it off so well.
Definitely! First time I watched this was when I was a teen and I remember my parents talking about how different this was for her in particular.
ORDINARY PEOPLE was one of my mother's favorite books. She was obsessed with it even before the movie. My mother and I were very close and both shared a love of books and films together. I was a freshman in high school when the film was released, and my mother made us go see it the first weekend it was released. She liked it, but she felt the book was better, but she did really like it. I loved the movie, and it inspired me to then read the book.
And then several months later we went to see it again, and she was able to just give over and love it, free of how she felt about the book. it was a special and favorite movie and book between us both.
I am now in my mid-50's, and my mother has alzheimers and no longer knows who I am. She's lived in the midwest my whole adult life, while I have lived on the east coast in the big city. I miss her very much. but I had many good times with her, over the years and I know how much she loved me, and she knows how much I loved her. she also loved that section of the book you wrote about Beth saving Conrad's drawings. she thought that was beautiful. thank you. I am thrilled to see anyone extolling the virtues of this wonderful book and this wonderful film. thanks for posting.
Thank you so much for sharing this! I love how books and movies can provide such powerful connections for us to loved ones.
"Buck never would have been in the Hospital". 44 years later I still remember these hurtful words the Mother says to Conrad when she's angry at him. This movie gutted me. Saw it in the theater in 1980 as a sophomore in High School when one teacher made it a homework assignment. When Conrad's finds out his friend Karen killed herself soon after they met at a restaurant after she seemed so cheerful devastated me. Maybe because I was the same exact age when I saw film as the Conrad character that this movie had an enormous impact on me as a teenager. Great job once again Laura breaking things down. RIP Donald Sutherland. Highly recommend watching some UA-cam clips of him on various talk shows which I've done since his death. Such a lovely man.
Yeah so many gut wrenching scenes in this movie! I don't know Sutherland wasn't at least nominated for his performance.
I think Donald Sutherland should have been nominated for an Oscar, as I thought his acting performance in the film was great. I would imagine it is difficult for an actor to give a great performance in a film that wins Best Picture and not be nominated for an Oscar, especially when three of his fellow cast mates were given Oscar nominations for their acting in this amazing film.
Yeah it makes no sense why he didn't get nominated!
I think we’ve all said that it’s odd he never got an Oscar nod here along with Mary and Timothy, but maybe it’s cause Hutton was up for Supporting Actor and the Academy didn’t want to have choose between them
Really appreciated your tackling different genres, it's a great chance for me (and others, I am sure) to discover something new.
Thanks! I have thought of focusing on a specific genre as a way to target a more niche audience, but I haven't done that because I love covering a variety of topics!
I saw this and said "I don't know anything about Ordinary People". Truer words have never been spoken by me.
I have never read the book but watched the movie so many times since i was a teenager it has aged very well to me because many people can understand this film im glad it won best picture Robert Redford did a great job directing and mary Tyler moore was terrific in the film i was shocked seeing how diffrent she is along with the late Donald Sutherland
Yeah she was such a great casting choice because people were so unsettled to see her in this way. Totally agree that it has aged very well.
RIP DonaldSutherland! What an excellent Calvin.
It’s like the polar opposite of his performance in “Don’t Look Now” where he plays a father who loses his daughter in a tragic accident (weirdly similar to the inciting incident for this movie here), but kinda behaves like Beth in this film with DLN’s John Baxter wanting to just accept Christine (the daughter) is gone and help his wife, the wonderful Julie Christie’s Laura, move on and rebuild their life. However that one has a much more downbeat ending; if you know, you know 😉
My personal DS performance is (in Italian!), the little known 1900,@@LucyLioness100... It also has SterlingHayden, RobertDeniro, & GerardDeipardu, in a 4 hr spectacular!
@@fredkrissman6527 I’ll put it on my watchlist 😄
I will never forget the night I went to see Ordinary People. I don't think I had read the book yet and went in knowing nothing about what I going to see. Growing up with emotionally distant parent myself I definitely connected with Conrad and his struggle to reach out to his mother and getting nothing. I was about 16 at the time I saw the film. Films targeted at my age range never really appealed to me and gravitated towards more mature films. I exited the theatre and walked home in a state of shock at what I had just watched. It was a real emotional beating, but I don't recall it being a depressing experience. Maybe if the film had ended differently it might have been but there is a bit of hope. What Conrad fails to find with his mother he rediscovered with his father. The performances by everyone in the cast is outstanding. But as I grew older I started to understand how tragic Calvin was. Not only did he lose a son, but now he was watching what remains of his family drifting apart. The most devastating scene is in the garage between Calvin and Beth. He's suddenly beginning to see the nature of his relationship with his wife as he recalls an incident when they were dressing for Bucky's funeral. Donald Sutherland's performance is heartbreaking and I see him as the centerpiece of the story. Mary Tyler Moore is not Laura Petrie or Mary Richards and is a sliver of ice. It's been a long since I've read the book and cannot recall if it explores anything of her background. Usually people like this come from similar environments, another link in a chain that they refuse to address as a flaw and copy that behavior. I imagine one or both of her parents were like this. But sometimes even if one comes from a loving home there is something that triggers this behavior. The one scene that was like a punch to my gut was when Conrad calls the girl he was in the mental hospital with and discovers that she had just killed herself. Like I said, the experience left me wrung out and I probably spent the rest of the evening trying to process it. It certainly deserved the awards, although I think The Elephant Man was just as worthy that year.
Thanks for sharing! Such an amazing movie with something new to notice and appreciate on each viewing.
Neither book or movie go too much into Beth's upbringing but the movie has that scene when her parents are watching Conrad while they are out of town. And Conrad goes in his room and Beth's mom can tell something is wrong but she just peeks out her door and then goes back in without talking to him. So I think that tells us how her parents also avoided difficult conversations.
This story always gave me Catcher in the Rye vibes.
Oh interesting, I didn't think of that connection but it has been a while since reading that one.
Well, they both end up on the "Banned List" every year and they both deal with very observant, yet self-destructive adolescents. Conrad in OP is just back from a mental hospital (after a messy suicide attempt) and Catcher's Holden is telling his story to an unnamed person at a mental hospital. Since Holden's meltdown took place after the main body of his story, we are not told what brought him to confinement in a California sanitarium, but it just had to be something big.
Conrad attempted to kill himself because neither he nor his parents knew how to deal with their grief, sense of helplessness and anger at the death of the star offspring of the family (Buck) who was the ultra-extrovert, beloved jock whose privilege as the indulged, first-born led him into some reckless and dangerous behavior. Salinger's novel (not really intended for teenagers) was a contemporary answer to Twain's Adventures of Huckleberry Finn. It's moral was that a certain amount of hypocrisy was necessary to function in society. The similarities between the two books (Catcher in The Rye and Ordinary People) ends about there.
Ordinary people is not an indictment of hypocritical American society as Twain or Salinger saw it. It is far more personal than that. Ordinary People is about how many of us choose to shield ourselves from the unpleasantness of our lives with good manners, fake cheerfulness and the meaningless things money can buy. People at the bottom may use street drugs to escape the pain, those in the middle may choose Martinis, book clubs and pain meds, but those at the top of the heap take trips to Europe, buy houses and cars and conduct discreet extramarital affairs. As the old joke goes "Money can't buy happiness, but you'll have fun trying..." Holden Caulfield wants to stay himself, not become a grown-up, he does not at all wish to step into a polluted adulthood and we sense J.D. Salinger is on his side. Conrad wants to grow--he is trying to grow, but he doesn't know how. He has a limited emotional vocabulary. His father has little and his mother has none.
In Judy Guest's Ordinary People, we have the benefit of seeing deeply into the protagonists homelife. The novel alternates point of view chapter by chapter between Conrad and his father, Calvin. We only encounter the person of the mother, Beth through the eyes of her husband and son. Beth gets less than a page near the conclusion of the book hinting at why she is the emotional cripple she has become. Her upbringing and class background demanded that she be perfect in all things--in every possible situation. She has spent her life trying to transform herself into what others expect of her. This family of three hasi its problems, but Beth's might be the most intractable. In Huck Finn and Catcher in The Rye, the authors both have a great deal of fun satirizing the American bourgeoise of the day. Guest plays fair with the Jarretts in OP; money isn't their problem and they are conservative in their display of affluence. They are tasteful. Perhaps too tasteful...
In the end of Salinger's novel, Holden doesn't have a clue about his future. He imagines running away, but to where? Conrad in Ordinary People can see the light at the end of the tunnel. His sympathetic psychotherapist has taught him how to express emotions in a serviceable way. OP has an epilogue set some months after the action in the narrative concludes. Conrad has, not surprisingly, become the person he should have always been. Now, that's not a spoiler, is it?
You've made me want to read the book!
I've not read it, but the movie was fantastic. The performances are so powerful in this movie.
Yes! So incredible!
This movie is way too overlooked by the general public. Film snobs hate on it only cause it beat “Raging Bull” for Picture and Director at the Oscars which is completely unfair to Redford and his talented cast’s hard work on this film. Timothy Hutton is just heartbreaking as Conrad, Mary Tyler Moore as Beth was probably her best film performance ever, Donald Sutherland as the caring yet grieving father often gets overlooked but is always fantastic & Judd Hirsch as Dr. Burger does a great job as the voice of reason to this dysfunctional family
Well said! It has been a long time since I saw Raging Bull, but I just remember bits and pieces so I guess it didn't make much of an impact on me...
@@WhytheBookWins it’s an okay movie, but not Scorsese’s best IMO. This one tackles tough subjects in a tasteful way & doesn’t trivialize what the characters are going through or allowing Conrad to get therapy and not be judged for it compared to how even today’s real world, movies or shows will still treat therapy
Not you calling me out in the first sentence I used to have that mindset until I saw ordinary people and it’s understandable why it won the best picture Oscar
I think Beth is the most complex and misunderstood character is this drama. The way I interpret Beth's behavior is she was a woman from a very upper-middle class family that was extremely aware of their class status, and she was raised in a family where family members were expected to act according to their roles.
Now, I think it's vital that we remember this film was made in 1979-1980, and the book was written in 1976. This means, if Beth was 38 to 42 years old in this story, she was born in the late 1930's while the country was still going through the Great Depression and raised through WW2. If her father had a business, or was a high-status professional, then it was very important for him to project competence and professionalism, and for the family to project an under-stated classiness (large home in an upper-class neighborhood, well-mannered, and nicely dressed - but in an inconspicuous way) to ensure and secure their status and income.
I think the reason Beth reacted to the loss of Buck the way she did was because Kalvin showed and expressed his feelings and emotions, which is something she probably didn't see men do when she was growing up. She expected Kalvin to be the stoic patriarch, which would have made her feel safe to reveal and show her feelings and emotions. Instead, Kalvin reacted emotionally, which she perceived as weakness. As a result, Beth reacted stoically to "hold the family together" in an attempt to move the family through the crisis, get Kalvin back to work, and get Conrad back to school. I think she was raised to understand that wealth and status aren't ensured; that the slightest missteps can destroy careers and erase years of hard work. While that may sound shallow, that she would place such importance on status and material possessions, I think she also understood that losing a home and possibly enduring a personal bankruptcy can be almost as devastating to a family's survival as the loss of a family member. Although she was just a little girl when the depression and WW2 was ongoing, I'm sure she was raised hearing stories of families that lost everything during those years. I think Kalvin's reaction to Buck's death frightened her because she didn't expect Kalvin to handle the loss of Buck the way he did, and she was worried it would spill over into his professional life and jeopardize his career which she depended on for their survival.
While the loss of Buck was difficult enough for her, she almost lost her other son, Conrad, when he attempted to take his own life. I think Beth perceived Conrad's attempt as a selfish act. In her mind, she was doing everything she could to "hold the family together," to restore order and normalcy again for their survival, then Conrad purposefully inflicted another trauma on the family. I think she took that very personally, as though Conrad was being ungrateful; ungrateful for his survival, ungrateful for his family's survival, ungrateful for his home, and ungrateful for her effort to maintain what they still had after losing Buck. Because Kalvin was not the stoic patriarch she thought she married, she felt she had to step up and fill that roll; a roll that was unnatural for her, but a roll she felt was necessary for someone to fill. In her mind, they all couldn't succumb to their emotions because that could be dangerous to the family's long-term survival.
If there is a person to blame the most for the family falling apart, it's Kalvin. Had Kalvin reacted to the loss of Buck with the patriarchal strength and stoicism Beth needed, it would have freed Beth to be the nurturer, and both Beth and Conrad would have felt safer to really feel and express their emotions together. Is it fair to expect men to "suck it up and man up" through a family crisis? No, but leaderless families are often the most chaotic families, and chaotic families are rarely healthy families; many do not survive intact. Beth understood this; unfortunately, Kalvin did not.
I have seen the movie but didn’t know this was based on a book 😭.
I always forget it is
I watched this movie again today, probably my fifth or sixth time watching it. It is just so good. The family reminds me of my family growing up. Everything was compartmentalized. My parents would make things appear ok in the 80s and 90s sometimes even when they weren’t, to keep up appearances. I think part of the reason was because they were part of the Silent Generation, where people didn’t talk about deep things openly.
I will say also that this movie always felt like it inspired Good Will Hunting. Tonight watching it, I could see that it also most likely inspired the movie American Beauty. Both of those movies also won multiple Oscars.
Thanks for sharing!
It has been a long time since I watched Good Will Hunting, I should give it another watch and look for the comparisons!
Have seen the movie; have never read the book. I have read Guest's Second Heaven.
Interestedly much of the commentary at the original reviews ( Im very old) that Berger is Jewish bringing the WASP vs. Other cultures approach to death.
Hm interesting.
They will never make a movie like this. The white father will be replaced or be the bad guy. So I'm happy to see this movie. Hope they dont remake it.
I don't think they would make him the bad guy if they remade it... But I agree that I hope they never do remake it!
@@WhytheBookWins You're probably right. If they do remake it, they will sure replace the father and child with a DEI cast.
In order to win an Oscar/Awards, movies now will need to comply with the new compulsory DEI pre-requisites before even thinking about getting a nomination.
@TheNinjaMarmot considering this is a very universal story of the human experience, it would be just as effective regardless of what race plays these characters.
@@WhytheBookWins Unfortunately, inevitably, with these types of cast changes comes race baiting and ideology.
We'll wait and see, but I'm usually disappointed that this is pursued in many remakes even overriding the messages or tone in the original material.
What I loved about the movie (I haven't read the book) was there was no superheroes, no supernatural/freak event. It was sincere and quite hard hitting. There is no easy way to say it. There is no deux ex machina, no wonder drug. It is what it is. And life is like that.
this is a real issue for you this DEI diversity stuff isn't it? so much so that you are even complaining here about a situation that hasn't actually happened (a remake of ORDINARY PEOPLE). You know how many actresses of color have won the Oscar in the 96 years that the Oscar has been given? 10. 10. it's been given 96 times. only 2 times has the best actress award gone to a woman of color (Michelle Yeoh and Halle Berry) the other 8 wins were best supporting. 10 women out of 96. why do you feel it is so mis-weighted?
do you need every movie to only be about white people? why does this matter so much to you? were you robbed of the Oscar one year by Hattie McDaniel? I am confused why this bee is buzzing so strongly in your bonnet. if you look around-there are more than enough white artists winning awards over the years, and certainly even today. why do you worry about all this to this degree? also the Supreme Court turned DEI and affirmative action around and effectively off for the u.s. now. shouldn't you just be celebrating? instead of still being frustrated by potential scenarios that don't even exist around diversity.