Well actually I've done the opposite, I still admire you Sprometheus, but I was hooked a little more... It's like choosing beetween a Ferrari and a Maserati 😉
Pro tip: Don’t preheat Flair Pro with water. Use the steam from your kettle. I take the lid off my kettle, and stick my V60 brewer on top and sit the brewhead in it. The temperature strip shows it heating up to the correct temp in seconds once the water starts boiling. Even Flair recommends this method.
I think preheating with water is ok, but you'll need to do it twice with boiling water. After that, the water temperature would drop to around 93C after pouring fresh boiling water for the third time, which is usually a pretty good temperature for espresso.
@@BkunS That’s the way I, and most people were doing it. But using the steam from your kettle heats it up in seconds. It cuts your workflow time down by a significant amount.
Thank you, thank you, thank you! I've been hovering my brew chamber on top of my stovetop Hario Buono V60 kettle with a pair of tongs - such a pain. I hadn't even thought to put my V60 brewer on top of it - so simple, so genius! This tip needs to be broadcast to the Flair Espresso masses!
Watching videos like this I wish there was a coffee "tool hire" company out there that I could rent all these wonder machines from for a day/week/month just to try them all. I'm envious of vloggers like yourself Spro who get to play with these toys while I can only sit, watch and drool...
Mine arrives today. I'm ready. I resurrected my old ROK in order to get my game back a bit. The work flow blows with the tiny portafilter and lack of a funnel. Pressures are all over the board. I'm psyched to put my new station to use with couple of new toys that you mentioned and just a smoother grind to shot process.
Was waiting eagerly for this review, soon after its announcement by flair, thought it would take time like with the Neo because of its availability and such. Then again always had a feeling it might happen here for no reason. Also for the nano foamer review, lastly for latte tasting video with James Hoffman enjoyed everyone one of the released videos. Thus thankyou for the time and effort put into everyone one them.
Thank you my friend! I appreciate the kind words and support. Being a UA-camr is a lot harder than I ever thought it would be, glad the effort comes through.
I was pretty stoked to see the announcement of the 58. I was about to pull the trigger on a used rancilio Silvia but now I’m pretty torn being a flair pro 2 user atm.
Good luck everyone! I am still using the Pro 2 kinda wish they retro fit something that will heat it up. A bit turn off by the price of this to be honest, it sits higher in price than some of the Breville machines new. They can pull reasonable shots, and can steam milk.
it's interesting how cafelat and flair went in opposite directions in fixing difficulties with brew temperatures. robot arguable is a smart solution to minimize the heat loss in the first place, while flair seems to have picked the band aid solution here.
I think an option for the future would be to have the preheat control being able to stay on a previous selected setting. That way you could use a timer/smart plug to have the machine ready to go in the morning etc.
Great balanced review as always! I ordered one this week which I’m very excited about. I feel like the speed of preheat and workflow for back to back espresso is a huge upside, arguably on a semi-auto in some cases. It has a lot of hype to live up to but seems solid
This video pretty well sums up what I have thought about the 58 so far. Can’t wait to get mine in May! I already have a new Decent v3 tamper waiting to be used with it
Thanks for great review. If I get one in get away I will sell my La Pavoni pro. As this one does the same job plus have much bigger head, which allows grind smaller, roast lighter and overall better extraction.
If this is the pinnacle of Flair, it will be similar to La Pavoni or Olympia Cremina: no major upgrades but can be treasured for many years to come! I certainly hope they find something to surprise us though.
I “upgraded” from the Aeropress to the Flair Signature. Wow, what a jump, from a wanna be to the real deal. Not sure what more I will get from the 58 but if you want to send me one to review, well, I will give it a shot. Sorry for the pun. Nice review of the 58 BTW. I want one.
1980 Pontiac Trans Am For sale on eBay it’s white with TTOPS has a la motor in it done by Petrie performance out of Alabama good for a collector car as well as a driver
Every one of us in /r/cafelatrobot was triggered by the paper bag and preheat comments, guaranteed. XD Great review, Spro! We anxiously await the Flair Robot shootout...
Exactly. Cafelatrobot still seems more user friendly for someone who is not Sprometheus or James. I also just saw Flair's hand grinder that also missed inclusion in shoot outs, as did my Feld47.
@@Sprometheus super excited! Will you do a round without electronics? I feel like the electronic preheat is quite the advantage for the 58. Re: Flair grinder. I didn’t even know it existed.
Great review! Love your honest opinion about it. I just bought the Flair Signature after the new year and upgraded it to Pro2 a month after with the accessories. Doesn't look like it's gonna worth it getting a whole new machine. Plus, I much prefer the shiny chrome look of my Signature than this dark, all-black 58. I'll save my money for a Kinu hand grinder.
I have the pro in flat black I love it, it doesn’t stick out like a sore thumb in the kitchen. My drink of choice is a cappuccino or a latte so I’m not sure if a La Pavoni would serve me better. Flair is making milk steamer too though
Realizing this review is.. by ‘net standards, ANCIENT…it is a concise yet thoroughly informative and entertaining video. In no way should Flair have an issue with it. I’ve owned 7 manual and spring levers over the years. It might now be 8… with the newest 58plus iteration in mind.
I don't see how Flair could be upset with that. I own a flair pro and it's wonderful for what it is but it won't replace my Rocket Appartamento. I do love watching their growth and I hope that they can hit the another milestone that might make me want to upgrade again. (for the most part I use my fair for pulling cold shots and it's wonderful for that)
@@Sprometheus hahaha I commented before finishing the video as a whole, so I will say the rest of the video was great. I will say, another alternative to unlocking the pf to fill the headspace is, if you have the mesh screen, simply popping out the shower screen so it functions a little more like a Pro with it's drop-in screen (no trapped air). I have reliably gotten 20:60 and 15:70 with a few (admittedly super light filter roast) coffees with this workflow. ✌️
Great review. Yes extra gaskets and seals will help akot to enjoy it longer. The brew basket power looks like a laptop adapter. Might not last long enough.... We will see in half a year. ☕☕
Nice review. If you have used one, how does it compare to an olympia lever or la pavoni levers? Since that is what it is getting close to Without adding a boiler.
Hello all. UPS dropped off a 58LE about 20 minutes ago, and my engineer's mind immediately assessed the quality of the material. When putting the stand and base together, here is an idea to make sure everything is aligned. Put the two bolts in and run them down most of the way, but don't snug them. I fashioned a simple harness from meat twine, finished snugging down the bolts. There is a little play in the lever, but I don't think it will be an issue.
I would be really interested to hear how you feel this stacks up against your Linea Mini! Also, I was thinking/wondering the same thing. I obviously haven’t worked with the 58, but I’m not sure how Flair could improve on a newer model.
@@Sprometheus curious to understand why you say that? The Linea Mini pulls shots at 9 bar constant. If you use the same grind size on both and pull the Flair at 9 bars constant, and same water temperature (checked by thermocouple) wouldn’t that be a fair way to compare both shots?
Great review!! I would love to know more about dialing in. Can you use the same grind setting with the Linea Mini? If so, is it hard to push around 9 bar with the flair 58?
I found myself usually even a slightly finer grind with the 58 than mini with the ability to use low pressure pre-infusion and profiling. But there is no different there with the grind size.
I have been into specialty coffee for six months now, using a V60, and tea bags and a mason jar for cold brew. I have been dying to get into espresso, if I win this giveaway I’ll cry lol
Hi Spro, Do you still recommend it after one year? I never buy anything when it comes out hut rather wait until i have full conviction. I usually make 2-4 espressos per week, and I don't mind at all foaming milk with a french press so getting a machine might be overkill, for me. I got a picopresso but want something better
Definitely seems like a lot of quality of life improvement over their previous offerings. I think one easy improvement would be to have a mirror under the flair so you could see how it's extracting as you pull your shot. Could open the door to adjusting your pressure as the shot starts to blonde. (This is also something that could be modded pretty easily)
Thank you for making this. Yes a handled portafilter is nice and I like things that are easy to clean, but I also don't care for the look of the preheater or the price tag. I wish they'd make a fully manual 58mm without all the grey plastics or any bell and whistles really. Grey plastic on black machines bugs me. The grip on the pro bugs me, compared to the more affordable models. Especially in this price range, which is still affordable by espresso machine standards, but not by what is essentially a piston, a lever and a basket.
@@pantac4493 The brew head is black. I was talking about the GREY plastics. You do you, but I said what I mean. Home cafes are as much about aesthetics as functionality for some which is why the customization market exists.
Ive been using a flair classic with the pressure gauge for a year with pretty good results and I am really happy with the results but I still really wonder how this bigger flair 58 compares to like a gaggia classic pro or a good pump machine because you're now much closer to their price range.
The big difference is the reliability. When the Gaggia breaks this will keep going even if electronics stop working if you preheat the brew head with water like the other models because of its simplicity
I got into the Flair Pro 2 because I wanted a simple manual experience producing espresso; the only things I like about the 58 is the longer T handle and the basket. It doesn't seem worth it to upgrade when I already have a perfectly functioning machine and this new model looks like the company's stepping away from their initial goals. Simplicity is King.
Thank you for such an informative review of the Flair 58… I just purchased mine recently and I’m in the still playing around and dialing in my shot using the Niche Zero grinder. I see that you have your Niche set to 12. Are you getting a 1:2 ratio with that setup? Also, did you experience any issues with channeling?
About espresso maker, is flair 58 the best espresso maker for traveling? Flair 58 might be not as good as the real espresso machine but after i see the workflow, maybe flair 58 is the only espresso maker which can be nearly good as machine compared to any portable espresso maker.
Great review, I got the Flair 58 and I am new to espresso tinkering. Do you vary the temperature of the the water you pour in according to roast type (light, medium, and dark)?
I think the temperature for the high setting is wrong. The low and high were listed as 185F. What’s the temp for highest setting? Also, is it possible to use a scace and see what the temp is at the grouphead? Thank you for a great video!
Wow almost 26,000 entries, I’m pretty glad they limited the entries to 6 and not in a referral way where someone could possibly get hundreds of entries
Full water submersion preheating the Pro2 chamber works fine for me. Anyone else use a long skinny spoon to place/lift the chamber in/out of the kettle?
That’s a good question. Honestly, there is something about the texture and depth of a shot on a pump machine. Not sure if it’s the consistent pressure, or more thermal stability, but the Flair shots are just a bit different. I’d say 90.
You didn't say exactly why it's not a good idea to heat your brew water with the heating element of the 58. What happens if you try this? It seems like a good idea to me.
Just noting a small typo at 2:06 on the Fahrenheit temp for high heat, but otherwise great video and a super exciting addition to the manual espresso world! As for how they could improve, you're right that if they add the ability to heat water directly and steaming capabilities, then it is basically a La Pavoni competitor, but perhaps La Pavoni needs some competition? If they can add the functionality, keep the 58 mm portafilter, and keep the price under $800-900, then I think it'd be super compelling.
In your video, you mentioned flair pro owners shouldn't necessarily upgrade immediately. What about if you were considering getting a flair pro 2? I've been eyeing the flair pro 2 for a couple of weeks now and have been thinking about jumping into manual pressing. Would it be better to go ahead and start with the flair pro 2 or should I just jump in with the the 58?
I’d say there isn’t massive differences between Pro and Pro 2. But if you’re looking to make the plunge into manual espresso, have the budget and don’t mind waiting a little bit I’d go straight to the 58. If you end up not liking it, you can likely quickly resell it. But if you want something right now that makes great espresso and just doesn’t have all the bells, whistles, and accessory options you won’t be disappointed with the Pro 2.
I suppose the direction they could go from here is not up, but down. They could bring as much of the improvements to the lower end models as feasible over time. Having a cheaper 45mm portafilter and a less robust build could probably get this down in price. That and no preheating. I waited forever for this thing because I am used to standard 58mm handled holders and wasn't willing to futz with the existing design. I know the Pro can deliver quality, but that brew chamber was a no for me. Would have bought a Robot if this didn't come out.
That's a fair point but to me it still seems odd to spend more money on something with less function and more work load. It just looks like they are tweaking the design to make it function more like an espresso machine.
I get a sweeter, more balanced shot using 20-30 seconds of pre-infusion at 2-3 bars on my Pro 2.. is it possible with the 58, as you pointed out there’s an air gap between the shower-screen and puck? And more importantly, is there any significant difference in taste (besides 3rd party gadgets) in using the 58mm portafilter?
could you give the dimensions for the drip tray? I ordered a 58; my current scale is on the larger size and if it won't fit I would like to go scale shopping before the 58 arrives. my scale is 7.2" by 5.2"
The Flair 58 giveaway is now closed! Good luck to everyone who entered!
Wow, what a Friday. First the much anticipated Aeropress video by James and now the Flair 58 by Sprometheus. It's a lot to absorb, I need a coffee.
hahaha exactly!!
A busy day for coffee UA-cam it would appear!
I thought the same thing!
J Hoffman finally releases an Aeropress video? Will have to wait, Sprometheus and his Flair 58 video goes first.
I’m sure he’ll be fine, haha.
Well actually I've done the opposite, I still admire you Sprometheus, but I was hooked a little more... It's like choosing beetween a Ferrari and a Maserati 😉
@@MAXXFIGO Who is Ferrari ? Is there Aston Martin somewhere ...
Coffee UA-cam is on fire today! First James starts his aeropress series, and now Sprom reviews the Flair 58!!
The world needs coffee now, more than ever!
Pro tip: Don’t preheat Flair Pro with water. Use the steam from your kettle. I take the lid off my kettle, and stick my V60 brewer on top and sit the brewhead in it. The temperature strip shows it heating up to the correct temp in seconds once the water starts boiling. Even Flair recommends this method.
I think preheating with water is ok, but you'll need to do it twice with boiling water. After that, the water temperature would drop to around 93C after pouring fresh boiling water for the third time, which is usually a pretty good temperature for espresso.
@@BkunS That’s the way I, and most people were doing it. But using the steam from your kettle heats it up in seconds. It cuts your workflow time down by a significant amount.
Thank you, thank you, thank you! I've been hovering my brew chamber on top of my stovetop Hario Buono V60 kettle with a pair of tongs - such a pain. I hadn't even thought to put my V60 brewer on top of it - so simple, so genius! This tip needs to be broadcast to the Flair Espresso masses!
Let me explain how excited I am for this product: James’s Aeropress video and this video were right next to each other... I watched this one first.
The highest honor one can bestow
I've been so impatient for this video I checked your channel a good 15 times today.
Love it, great video, great brewer imo!
Thanks for watching! If you’re subscribed with notifications on it should let you know as soon as new videos drop. Could save you a little time, haha,
@@Sprometheus Yup, I never turn on notifications because I hate having my mailbox full, but I'll turn them on for this channel
Watching videos like this I wish there was a coffee "tool hire" company out there that I could rent all these wonder machines from for a day/week/month just to try them all. I'm envious of vloggers like yourself Spro who get to play with these toys while I can only sit, watch and drool...
Preheating and a standard 58mm basket/pf are game changers. I'm itching to preorder. Itching. Thanks for great review!
thanks for another awesome review! I’m one of those who will upgrade 🤣
Sprometheus, how about reviewing a La Pavoni once?
Cannot wait to receive mine! Great review Sprometheus, thank you as always
Thank you friend! I appreciate you.
Thanks ! I am adding this to my wishlist!
Mine arrives today. I'm ready. I resurrected my old ROK in order to get my game back a bit. The work flow blows with the tiny portafilter and lack of a funnel. Pressures are all over the board. I'm psyched to put my new station to use with couple of new toys that you mentioned and just a smoother grind to shot process.
Love it! Went to buy one as soon as I got the email and the presale had already sold out. Great piece of kit!
Yeah I was sure they would sell out quick! I’m sure they’ll be making more though.
Was waiting eagerly for this review, soon after its announcement by flair, thought it would take time like with the Neo because of its availability and such. Then again always had a feeling it might happen here for no reason.
Also for the nano foamer review, lastly for latte tasting video with James Hoffman enjoyed everyone one of the released videos. Thus thankyou for the time and effort put into everyone one them.
Thank you my friend! I appreciate the kind words and support. Being a UA-camr is a lot harder than I ever thought it would be, glad the effort comes through.
Wow! Super nice and honest review! Hats off Sprometheus, cheers from Prague :) What coffee did you brew?
Good show, ive entered the comp, so good luck everyone🤞🤞👏😎🇬🇧
Good luck!
Good luck to you too!
I was pretty stoked to see the announcement of the 58. I was about to pull the trigger on a used rancilio Silvia but now I’m pretty torn being a flair pro 2 user atm.
Good luck everyone! I am still using the Pro 2 kinda wish they retro fit something that will heat it up.
A bit turn off by the price of this to be honest, it sits higher in price than some of the Breville machines new. They can pull reasonable shots, and can steam milk.
I've been waiting for this! 😍
Glad it’s finally here!
it's interesting how cafelat and flair went in opposite directions in fixing difficulties with brew temperatures. robot arguable is a smart solution to minimize the heat loss in the first place, while flair seems to have picked the band aid solution here.
Robot still doesn’t maintain heat as well as the flair 58
I think an option for the future would be to have the preheat control being able to stay on a previous selected setting. That way you could use a timer/smart plug to have the machine ready to go in the morning etc.
Yeah I’m sure they could do an update on the electrical system and maybe Bluetooth.
Thanks...great video and I enjoyed your humor.
I like the mechanism of this coffee machine. Hope one day to try it. Thnks for the review.
Great balanced review as always! I ordered one this week which I’m very excited about. I feel like the speed of preheat and workflow for back to back espresso is a huge upside, arguably on a semi-auto in some cases. It has a lot of hype to live up to but seems solid
Thank you! I’m sure you’ll enjoy the 58, that workflow is really the winning piece in my opinion.
Baristas of hand pressed espresso cafe’s are going to love this for it’s speed of workflow vs the flair pros
Thanks for this in-depth review. Exciting product, indeed!
This video pretty well sums up what I have thought about the 58 so far. Can’t wait to get mine in May! I already have a new Decent v3 tamper waiting to be used with it
Thanks for great review. If I get one in get away I will sell my La Pavoni pro. As this one does the same job plus have much bigger head, which allows grind smaller, roast lighter and overall better extraction.
Nice video. Think I'm good with my pro2 for now. Just need a wdt. I'll skip upgrading to the 58. Beautiful machine though!
Thanks! I appreciate you watching, and the Pro 2 is a solid workhorse!
Very cool, should be very reliable. Ideal synergy of manual and mechanical.
Definitely will be reliable and easy to maintain!
If this is the pinnacle of Flair, it will be similar to La Pavoni or Olympia Cremina: no major upgrades but can be treasured for many years to come! I certainly hope they find something to surprise us though.
Great and fair review! Thanks Sprometheus
Thank you my friend! I appreciate the kind words and support!
Looks amazing. Might come even before a la pavoni on my list of coffee machines I want but don't need anymore 😅
Great video and review, as always.
Thank you.
I need this! Been wanting heard the news of the 58. Finally I can find a worthy replacement for my old flair :)
this thing cost 600 dollar.....
Wow I seriously can't wait. Great review
I “upgraded” from the Aeropress to the Flair Signature. Wow, what a jump, from a wanna be to the real deal. Not sure what more I will get from the 58 but if you want to send me one to review, well, I will give it a shot. Sorry for the pun. Nice review of the 58 BTW. I want one.
1980 Pontiac Trans Am For sale on eBay it’s white with TTOPS has a la motor in it done by Petrie performance out of Alabama good for a collector car as well as a driver
Every one of us in /r/cafelatrobot was triggered by the paper bag and preheat comments, guaranteed. XD Great review, Spro! We anxiously await the Flair Robot shootout...
Haha of course, and the Robot vs 58 video is coming!
Exactly. Cafelatrobot still seems more user friendly for someone who is not Sprometheus or James. I also just saw Flair's hand grinder that also missed inclusion in shoot outs, as did my Feld47.
@@Sprometheus super excited! Will you do a round without electronics? I feel like the electronic preheat is quite the advantage for the 58. Re: Flair grinder. I didn’t even know it existed.
More finite control over the preheat temperature would be one improvement and maybe larger boilers for a bigger dosage
Great review! Love your honest opinion about it. I just bought the Flair Signature after the new year and upgraded it to Pro2 a month after with the accessories. Doesn't look like it's gonna worth it getting a whole new machine. Plus, I much prefer the shiny chrome look of my Signature than this dark, all-black 58. I'll save my money for a Kinu hand grinder.
I have the pro in flat black I love it, it doesn’t stick out like a sore thumb in the kitchen. My drink of choice is a cappuccino or a latte so I’m not sure if a La Pavoni would serve me better. Flair is making milk steamer too though
Realizing this review is.. by ‘net standards, ANCIENT…it is a concise yet thoroughly informative and entertaining video. In no way should Flair have an issue with it. I’ve owned 7 manual and spring levers over the years. It might now be 8… with the newest 58plus iteration in mind.
There are broken links to your UA-cam and Instagram page on the giveaway page. Btw thanks for setting this up with them. These are awesome.
Thanks for the heads up, Flair got them fixed.
I don't see how Flair could be upset with that. I own a flair pro and it's wonderful for what it is but it won't replace my Rocket Appartamento. I do love watching their growth and I hope that they can hit the another milestone that might make me want to upgrade again. (for the most part I use my fair for pulling cold shots and it's wonderful for that)
Your Celsius -> Fahrenheit conversion at 2:05 has a typo; should read 203f ;)
Haha it never fails that I miss something. Oh well, it’s a test to make sure you’re paying attention.
@@Sprometheus hahaha I commented before finishing the video as a whole, so I will say the rest of the video was great.
I will say, another alternative to unlocking the pf to fill the headspace is, if you have the mesh screen, simply popping out the shower screen so it functions a little more like a Pro with it's drop-in screen (no trapped air). I have reliably gotten 20:60 and 15:70 with a few (admittedly super light filter roast) coffees with this workflow. ✌️
I agree with the chassis. I think they should really go in the direction of a La Pavoni style lever machine
also entered.. I couldn't resist 😅
Maybe they will! Time will tell.
Great review. Yes extra gaskets and seals will help akot to enjoy it longer. The brew basket power looks like a laptop adapter. Might not last long enough.... We will see in half a year. ☕☕
Nice review. If you have used one, how does it compare to an olympia lever or la pavoni levers? Since that is what it is getting close to Without adding a boiler.
Thank you! It’s been a long long time since I’ve used a Pavoni Lever so I can’t really say on that unfortunately.
Hello all. UPS dropped off a 58LE about 20 minutes ago, and my engineer's mind immediately assessed the quality of the material. When putting the stand and base together, here is an idea to make sure everything is aligned. Put the two bolts in and run them down most of the way, but don't snug them. I fashioned a simple harness from meat twine, finished snugging down the bolts. There is a little play in the lever, but I don't think it will be an issue.
nice content... btw we don't have reviews for eureka mingon XL...
Busy day for Coffee UA-cam
Indeed it is!
I would be really interested to hear how you feel this stacks up against your Linea Mini! Also, I was thinking/wondering the same thing. I obviously haven’t worked with the 58, but I’m not sure how Flair could improve on a newer model.
It’s hard to compare the two to be honest. They both make espresso but I feel like there where the similarities end, and the differences begin.
@@Sprometheus curious to understand why you say that? The Linea Mini pulls shots at 9 bar constant. If you use the same grind size on both and pull the Flair at 9 bars constant, and same water temperature (checked by thermocouple) wouldn’t that be a fair way to compare both shots?
Great review!! I would love to know more about dialing in. Can you use the same grind setting with the Linea Mini? If so, is it hard to push around 9 bar with the flair 58?
I found myself usually even a slightly finer grind with the 58 than mini with the ability to use low pressure pre-infusion and profiling. But there is no different there with the grind size.
@@Sprometheus how did you find the taste difference between the shots on the Flair 58 and the Mini
I ordered and can’t wait to get mine. Do you need to buy the screen separately? Does it come with a bag?
Do you foresee any improvement in shot quality when using either a metal, paper, or no filter?
I tried both, and I prefer using the metal filter over the paper or no filter.
It really locks the puck in and minimizes movement and turbulence.
Great honest review
I have been into specialty coffee for six months now, using a V60, and tea bags and a mason jar for cold brew. I have been dying to get into espresso, if I win this giveaway I’ll cry lol
Best of luck to you my friend!
Bear in mind that you will need a proper espresso grinder to pair it with. Best of luck though.
@@autumn_of_thought fair point but I don’t got the money for everything, so getting a free espresso maker will help with getting everything else
Hope to win!! Good luck to everyone!!
Good luck!
Hi Spro, Do you still recommend it after one year? I never buy anything when it comes out hut rather wait until i have full conviction. I usually make 2-4 espressos per week, and I don't mind at all foaming milk with a french press so getting a machine might be overkill, for me. I got a picopresso but want something better
love the music!!!
Thank you! It’s one of those little details I actually spend a lot of time messing with, glad people notice it!
5:50 You made me laugh, piña colada is a beverage from Puerto Rico.
It’s what I always think of when I think of relaxing, not sure why.
Yeah!!!!! I so want one of these! It’s everything the Rok should be but isn’t.
Definitely an upgrade from the Rok!
Definitely seems like a lot of quality of life improvement over their previous offerings. I think one easy improvement would be to have a mirror under the flair so you could see how it's extracting as you pull your shot. Could open the door to adjusting your pressure as the shot starts to blonde. (This is also something that could be modded pretty easily)
We will be offering a shot mirror from the webstore next week in fact
@@FlairEspresso perfect!
Thank you for making this. Yes a handled portafilter is nice and I like things that are easy to clean, but I also don't care for the look of the preheater or the price tag. I wish they'd make a fully manual 58mm without all the grey plastics or any bell and whistles really. Grey plastic on black machines bugs me. The grip on the pro bugs me, compared to the more affordable models.
Especially in this price range, which is still affordable by espresso machine standards, but not by what is essentially a piston, a lever and a basket.
I feel you. If enough people feel that way and want a fully manual 58 maybe that’s something they should look into.
The brew head is surrounded with silicon to retain heat stability, I’d take that over looks and it doesn’t look bad to me
@@pantac4493 The brew head is black. I was talking about the GREY plastics. You do you, but I said what I mean. Home cafes are as much about aesthetics as functionality for some which is why the customization market exists.
@@Onyxaxe it is kinda dumb they use grey silicon on the pressure gauge but black on the brew head. Would look much better if it was all black
Flair 58X is the same like this, except it didn't have any pre heating element
ive been eyeing a flair classic for awhile but this would be much nicer!
Ive been using a flair classic with the pressure gauge for a year with pretty good results and I am really happy with the results but I still really wonder how this bigger flair 58 compares to like a gaggia classic pro or a good pump machine because you're now much closer to their price range.
I actually would be curious too. I haven’t had a Gaggia shot in ages!
The big difference is the reliability. When the Gaggia breaks this will keep going even if electronics stop working if you preheat the brew head with water like the other models because of its simplicity
I think the Flair will last longer. If anything broke you can replace it easier. I'm looking forward to own one
I got into the Flair Pro 2 because I wanted a simple manual experience producing espresso; the only things I like about the 58 is the longer T handle and the basket. It doesn't seem worth it to upgrade when I already have a perfectly functioning machine and this new model looks like the company's stepping away from their initial goals. Simplicity is King.
I’d love to try this, manual espresso is a world I’m dying to be a part of!
Thank you for such an informative review of the Flair 58… I just purchased mine recently and I’m in the still playing around and dialing in my shot using the Niche Zero grinder. I see that you have your Niche set to 12. Are you getting a 1:2 ratio with that setup? Also, did you experience any issues with channeling?
Great review! Any idea if it's possible to replace/upgrade the shower screen?
Hi, if I use Turkish coffee in the 58, will it clog the puk or anything else ?
this is such a tough decision. I want to get a lever machine, and I am strugglin between the 58 and the pro2..
About espresso maker, is flair 58 the best espresso maker for traveling?
Flair 58 might be not as good as the real espresso machine but after i see the workflow, maybe flair 58 is the only espresso maker which can be nearly good as machine compared to any portable espresso maker.
Really looks sleek!
It does! Love the familiar angles.
Thanks for the review. How is compared to the Cafelat robot?
Great review, I got the Flair 58 and I am new to espresso tinkering. Do you vary the temperature of the the water you pour in according to roast type (light, medium, and dark)?
can you make a tall espresso and fill the cup more nut just a little bit. What is the maximum volume for an espresso?
2:06 temperature mistake!
Good review - what kind of scale are you using?
I think the temperature for the high setting is wrong. The low and high were listed as 185F. What’s the temp for highest setting? Also, is it possible to use a scace and see what the temp is at the grouphead? Thank you for a great video!
As always, interesting 😊
Thank you!
hi can the flair 58x handle/ portafilter fit the IMS basket 58.5 mm? Thank you.
Yep, it should be.
@@Sprometheus Awesome! Thank you !
58mm mean you can grind finner than Pro2.
Wow almost 26,000 entries, I’m pretty glad they limited the entries to 6 and not in a referral way where someone could possibly get hundreds of entries
Full water submersion preheating the Pro2 chamber works fine for me. Anyone else use a long skinny spoon to place/lift the chamber in/out of the kettle?
I always wondered. If a mastered shot made on your LM is a 100 points, what's the mastered shot on Flair?
That’s a good question. Honestly, there is something about the texture and depth of a shot on a pump machine. Not sure if it’s the consistent pressure, or more thermal stability, but the Flair shots are just a bit different. I’d say 90.
Good video :) does anyone know's the exact measurements(internal dimensions) of the draintray?
You didn't say exactly why it's not a good idea to heat your brew water with the heating element of the 58. What happens if you try this? It seems like a good idea to me.
Houu that looks nice!
Definitely a nice looking kit!
Pouring water into the boiler will start preinfusion because the water touch the coffee puck, can It be a con?
Just noting a small typo at 2:06 on the Fahrenheit temp for high heat, but otherwise great video and a super exciting addition to the manual espresso world! As for how they could improve, you're right that if they add the ability to heat water directly and steaming capabilities, then it is basically a La Pavoni competitor, but perhaps La Pavoni needs some competition? If they can add the functionality, keep the 58 mm portafilter, and keep the price under $800-900, then I think it'd be super compelling.
So excited
Don't mind me, just stopping by to say hello to myself.
In your video, you mentioned flair pro owners shouldn't necessarily upgrade immediately. What about if you were considering getting a flair pro 2? I've been eyeing the flair pro 2 for a couple of weeks now and have been thinking about jumping into manual pressing. Would it be better to go ahead and start with the flair pro 2 or should I just jump in with the the 58?
I’d say there isn’t massive differences between Pro and Pro 2. But if you’re looking to make the plunge into manual espresso, have the budget and don’t mind waiting a little bit I’d go straight to the 58. If you end up not liking it, you can likely quickly resell it.
But if you want something right now that makes great espresso and just doesn’t have all the bells, whistles, and accessory options you won’t be disappointed with the Pro 2.
@@Sprometheus Hey, thanks for the reply. That's kind of what I was thinking.
I suppose the direction they could go from here is not up, but down. They could bring as much of the improvements to the lower end models as feasible over time. Having a cheaper 45mm portafilter and a less robust build could probably get this down in price. That and no preheating. I waited forever for this thing because I am used to standard 58mm handled holders and wasn't willing to futz with the existing design. I know the Pro can deliver quality, but that brew chamber was a no for me. Would have bought a Robot if this didn't come out.
At $500 I'm confused as to why you wouldn't buy something like a gaggia classic?
That seems to be a common reaction. Apparently I need to compare the two.
Preinfusion and pressure profiling aren't available on the pumped machine.
Maintenance on the 58 is less costly - just O-rings as compared to boiler descaling and pump replacement.
That's a fair point but to me it still seems odd to spend more money on something with less function and more work load. It just looks like they are tweaking the design to make it function more like an espresso machine.
@@Sprometheus I don't mind the thought of more content haha!
my god, i would love to win that giveaway and start making espresso. Great video!
I get a sweeter, more balanced shot using 20-30 seconds of pre-infusion at 2-3 bars on my Pro 2.. is it possible with the 58, as you pointed out there’s an air gap between the shower-screen and puck?
And more importantly, is there any significant difference in taste (besides 3rd party gadgets) in using the 58mm portafilter?
could you give the dimensions for the drip tray? I ordered a 58; my current scale is on the larger size and if it won't fit I would like to go scale shopping before the 58 arrives. my scale is 7.2" by 5.2"
The next variation: maybe a spring lever?