1993 GM 3.1 No Start Case Study (Part II)
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- Опубліковано 4 жов 2024
- Part 1 • 1993 GM 3.1 No Start C...
Part 3 • 1993 GM 3.1 No Start C...
This is part 2 of the car with the blown engine computer, where we find the cause of all of these problems, as well as install a new engine computer. Also covered is how to perform a parasitic drain test.
For more help with no start diagnostics, I have material available on my website at www.scannerdanner.com
This video was recorded during shop time at Rosedale Technical Institute in Pittsburgh PA. For more information about our school go to www.rosedaletech.org
I would love to have you as part of my class in person!
For more information on this topic, I have written a “field manual” called Engine Performance Diagnostics which is available at www.scannerdanner.com as an eBook or paper book.
Want even more diagnostic training? Whether you are a DIY trying to fix your own car, someone looking to become an auto technician, or a current auto technician that wants to get more into diagnostics, subscribe to ScannerDanner Premium www.scannerdan... There is a 14 day free trial.
On ScannerDanner Premium I will bring you right into my classroom at Rosedale Technical College. You will find page for page lectures taken right from my book as well as exclusive classroom type case studies. What is so special about these classroom case studies? I pull live problem vehicles directly into my classroom and we troubleshoot them in real time, using and applying the theory and testing procedures we learn during the classroom lectures. There is no better on-line training of how to troubleshoot automotive electrical and electronics systems anywhere!
Disclaimer:
Due to factors beyond the control of ScannerDanner LLC, it cannot guarantee against unauthorized modifications of this information, or improper use of this information. ScannerDanner LLC assumes no liability for property damage or injury incurred as a result of any of the information contained in this video. ScannerDanner LLC recommends safe practices when working with power tools, automotive lifts, lifting tools, jack stands, electrical equipment, blunt instruments, chemicals, lubricants, or any other tools or equipment seen or implied in this video. Due to factors beyond the control of ScannerDanner LLC, no information contained in this video shall create any express or implied warranty or guarantee of any particular result. Any injury, damage or loss that may result from improper use of these tools, equipment, or the information contained in this video is the sole responsibility of the user and not ScannerDanner LLC.
A shop would have made the mistake, charged the customer for their mistake, and lied through their teeth to cover their mistake. ScannerDanner makes techs better educated; I applaud you sir.
Due to my four hour round trip daily commute, I don't have much time to myself. I have a wife and two kids also. But because of scannerdanner's teaching ability and style, I find time to watch these videos.
I watched and commented on these videos quite a while ago. Just like watching the ones on the Vantage Pro. As u absorb more knowledge u r able to understand more. So I rewatch many of the videos. And continue to learn. Watching u navigate Mitchell and using two sources on the draw. Through the Vantage and then with the clamp. Thanks from a student who is only on the path
Excellent you have proven that the customer is very important in the diagnostic procedure well done video 👍
Very great of you that you showed us what caused the battery to explode.
Doing work on a Ford Windstar(terdstar) in a buddy's driveway....sounds like me.
Was this when you had been working in the field or prior to going to tech school? You are absolutely correct about modules waking up causing parasitic current draw. Some vehicles will even turn on 02 sensor heaters and do EVAP self tests after a certain amount of time between ignition cycles. That can really throw a tech for a loop if you're not thinking clearly. Great video once again Paul, I applaud you and your
I just want to say that ur video helps a lot to me , I work as a mechanic and I think electrical field is the most complex or more difficult . what , I want to say is that the after market sound system will couse battery draw overnight of after vehicle has been sitting for a long periods of time, radiios , spekears, alarms, amplifiers . for me auto electricity is really interesting for me and I will like to learn more of this , cuz it will help me alot for what I do. thanks for posting this kind of videos scannerDanner.
Even when I think I know what I am doing; I still consult your videos and try to expand on my techniques and understanding. I consider electronics as one of my strong points, however it's always good to have someone to learn from.
Thank you Tom A
You're a great teacher. Love your instructional style. I've been telling all the backyard mechanics at work about your channel. Keep up the good work.
Man, what a pain in the butt this issue was. Glad we can all learn something from it.
A Common problem in communication with service writers and customers is they dont get any detailed symptoms because they figure you are the mechanic find it. Yes, but knowing if the customer had any issues just prior to these current events bringing the vehicle in are sometimes vital to an easy diagnosis. I know it has helped me a great many times and that knowledge has taken me a completely different direction and finding the problem quickly. Just from knowing what happened before this bring it in incident. "Gl be safe and stay dirty" Eric the car guy~
Mad dexterity brother. Two meter leads in one hand while pushing a button and recording! Love the volt drop test. Thanks again.
Sorry for the train of comments...I'm commenting as I watch the video. The voltage drop across higher current circuit fuses I was lectured on believe it or not, AC Delco. I sat in on one of their lectures and one of the old timers mentioned this very thing. Of course I had forgotten it until now....it's ironic how things pan out sometimes. My preferred method for parasitic draw or drain, whichever terminology people like to use, is using an inductive ammeter. You don't have to worry about radio
Glad you showed the multimeter method, learned that one from my dad decades ago, he was an electrician. But cars were more simple back then, did learn about modules using power from you, so you need to wait on somethings, love learning something new.
Great PT 2 really learning alot Paul ! Big shout out to RTC !! You guys have a great facility it beats the hell out of my college in Watford England UK near London back in 1989. The students are very lucky !
Rick Chapman Thanks Rick! Stick around, I know you will enjoy this channel and I appreciate having you here!
ScannerDanner I have a question u plugged blk lid at the unplug ground battery and the other lid u plugged on ground battery post or positive battery post?
History. Important..
Great video.
Whoever did that repair on the battery charger terminals was absolutely careless.
Also, devices should be tested without load by operators and/or technicians, especially after any repair, to ensure that the repair was done right.
expensive mistake for sure
It's important to mention why a DMM with the probe connected to the current jack acts as a jumper wire even when it's off.
A meter measures current with a low ohm high wattage resistor known as a shunt. Your leads are connected across this resistor.
The more current that flows through this resistor the higher the voltage drop will be across the resistor. Knowing the resistance of the shunt and the voltage drop the meter can calculate the current.
These live videos are really great - 3 thumbs up!
Watching this reminded me how much I hate replacing batteries on these models, have to remove that side brace, the washer reservoir, and sometimes part of the airbox assembly.
I would love to see a Passlock theft deterrent system overview video from you Paul, or even just different security system circuit designs and what they do to the vehicle. I think that would be of HUGE benefit to your students, and of course your viewers. Awesome video series, again, you always have me thinking.
Nice job with direction leading towards the evidence. Looking forward to Part 3!
It’s easy to do with the multimeter but they also make a tool that calculates the amp draw by measuring across the fuse. You select the amperage of the fuse and it calculates the current draw by the voltage drop. I know Matco makes one.
Hey there, Your videos are awesome!! I have one little gripe with this method, I reckon a much better way is to voltage drop the fuses so as to find the fault without interrupting any modules and causing confusion!! I understand its quite an old system here but on any modern European cars I ever work on we wouldn't get away with pulling fuses as we would be there for days waiting for modules to sleep!! I really love your videos and please keep up the good work Its a joy to learn from you!
Great Job!!!
Kenny
+kmsmotors
38 and a half minutes in and you mentioned the voltage drop method!! My bad!! feel silly now LOL
+kmsmotors good tip brother and no problem at all!
I think pulling fuses (even in modern European cars) is a valid test. The only problem is plugging them back in with your ammeter plugged in, because you run the risk of waking up a sleeping system (which could blow your meter and/ or give you improper readings). Voltage drop is better to me because after your check you're not going to have 700 fuses to put back in the box. Nightmare town!
Classic case of a breakdown of the flow of information.....
Hey Paul,
When using the VD method across the fuse to find a parasitic draw, the test is much more accurate with the DVOM in mV range on manual ranging mode. It will show lower parasitic draws.
Also worth looking for VW and Mercedes-Benz have charts to how much current is flowing to what VD will be across the fuse.
Wow I work late so I'm just starting to work on my car like I commented on last night. Unbelievable like I said my car was broken into before I bought it so there's no door handle and it barely hangs on for dear life on the door latch but does not close all the way looks like the inch Gap you know sticking out looks like I never close my door all the way and I started driving. You may have uncovered my problem with just that for the battery draining because I fixed everything else and it was driving great and then cut off because it would look no power. And you find the electric fuse and mines lead to the door latches and dome light and cigarette lighter which I don't know where turned on when I installed my cell phone charger in there but if I put the cigarette lighter its original component or thing to go in it it wouldn't work so I just unplug that and I'm taking out the elect fuse and going from there thank you
Have you ever heard of the Chesney method? Where you check voltage drop across fuses to calculate current draw on that circuit? It is a very non-invasive method to finding your parasitic draw.
Never mind you got to that at the end of the video!
everytime i think that you couldn't explain it better, YOU DO!
Omg what could it be ? Can't wait for part 3. Great diag tips. Keep um coming
SUBSTANTIAL Sir ScannerDanner
Tutorial great Thank you 👏 👌 👍
Sir ScannerDanner
From Nick Ayivor from London England UK 🇬🇧
Paul have you ever tried an infrared temperature gun. I was working on a piece of off road equipment last winter and the laser point picked up the heat of the maxi-fuse for the circuit that was on. All the rest were at ambient temperature. Fluke 62
Paul you have people as far as South Africa learning from you videos and book which i bought
Lol, no it really was just a blurry screen. I had to render the video clips over again. I didn't catch it last night before the upload.
Thanks for your kind words dreamer. I need it today.
@fred shead man that's a interesting conclusion 1 amp draw 12 to 15 watt power.. Interesting way to find a problem
That was the best video on parasitic draw testing i have seen so far ,could we see one with an amp clamp thank you
Very impressive. Thanks for the valuable info and taking time to make video.
Your videos keep work tolerable. Thank you, learning a lot!
wow. didnt know this was a common thing with this engine. Had one in my first car and blew a head gasket (about 15 years ago). rebuilt the top side of it and when we went to restart it it would not start and was backfiring through the intake. couldnt figure it out so we ripped it back apart and checked the rods (all good of course) and put her back together and found out that the computer was blown too. long story short, it was a pain in the ass.
For those interested on the voltage drop test across the fuses to see the amp draw, this is a link to a chart for almost every type of fuse. Like in this case for Paul. A normal 15 amp fuse with a 5 millivolt drop, the amp draw chart shows 1042 milliamps.
info.powerprobe.com/fusechartsdownload
Very interested to see the next video!
interesting video, and good tips . thank you for sharing it with us.
take care and blessings. sorry for my english writing.
mr Danner, after watching part 2, the suspense is killing me. ;-)
btw Wish I could be in your class......!
Thanks for yet an other very educating lesson.
I have problem with my 08 Hyundai elantra I have the driver side breaklight always burn out soon I put new one on will work for second and will burn out is there any advice for that
Thanks a lot for help. Ali
Where can you find out when the computer “goes to sleep”
Bad upload, will have it up later today. Sorry about that
A more important question why doesn't that relatively new charger have a reverse polarity cutout? Or at least an indicator light?
My digital wheel around charger cost me just over 100 bucks and it won't power up if it senses reverse polarity.
I'm sure the school paid through the nose for that "Blue Point" unit probably double what I paid. Not having such a a critical safety feature at that price point is unacceptable to me.
I have an older charger from the 70s with a polarity light.
Bushougoma that charger wasn’t a digital charger and digital chargers can’t be used in all situations especially with a completely dead battery a lot of the times. Sometimes you need to use a manual charger to get the voltage up before one of those digital chargers will even begin to charge a battery. I prefer to control the charge over batteries in that situation rather than depend on some charging strategy built in to a digital charger that is unknown to me. I’m not bashing digital because they have their place and are great for maintaining/topping off batteries but don’t always fit every situation.
Does it matter if you charge a battery before doing a parasitic draw test? Does it matter if the battery is freshly charged? Does it matter if the battery is dead while doing the draw test?
Hey Danner I have seen computers fried on heavy equipment several times because the proper procedure was not followed when welding on the equipment you have to disconnect the batteries an ECM for the engine some are high is 15,000 saying the same burn marks it's a fried tater
This one should be ur all time greatest!
After market radios interfere with and sometimes disable the vehicle chimes and audio warning system [Example key in ignition with driver's door open = chime]. In CAN bus equipment vehicles the diagnostic line passes through the radio and in some models the radio screen can display system faults, There are many cars that will not even start after installing a non OEM radio, because of communication bus faults
Skipping to 13:11 will take you to the start of the charging/battery system diagnosis.
+theomnipresent1 thanks!
0:01-13:10 will help you get a foundational understanding of diagnosis. Too many shortcut technicians want answers with no possession of knowledge......
great video keep up,good job!!this video covers a lot of different areas,cant wait for part 3
What are the benefits of doing the draw test with leads rather than an amp clamp?
+mastahc411 amp clamps have a hard time reading very low current, but I've done it with success.
As
A TON of valuable information! Love your channel!
EEPROM yes be sure to let folks know that when pronouncing the acronym not to include both E's, dont want an epidemic of hearing an age old acronym pronounced wrong, peoples OCD would freak the eff out =P Thanks for Sharing Danner!! great info per the norm man. In the future i would love to see you do more grunt work on the heep err i mean jeep.
Question, seeing how that car is OBD I how was you able to use a scan tool? I mean, I had a 91 Cutlass Supreme that I had issues on and the only way I thought you could view codes was reading it from the flashing light. (Counting the check engine light flashes).
thank you learning a lot.
One should not pull the fuses but measure the voltage on the fuses and compare that with the spec sheet of voltage drop against the Amperage of the fuse depending whether its a mini etc.
One should learn multiple methods and the voltage drop method on fuses is one of them
Sorry for being late, Not Draw Related but shouldn't you test AMP out also when testing the chrg sys? I know your doing a GM BUT, early ford alt's put out low volts but amps were high on full load some fords I remember only put out .5 volts over Batt volts.
I always test both for voltage and amperage. Then i would look for an A/C leak (diode test) looking at A/C output
For all Chrg Sys Testing I Get it out of the way right off the start . A draw can be caused by a bad trio.
Who the hell re-connected the clamps on the charger backwards?!?!
Sorry, but that person needs to be given "special" duties around the shop.
Mario Brotha is
i Ran out of text there, lastly i was gonna say, that alternator being disconnect seems strange, why was it disconnected?, reverse polarity can destroy them, but that worked ok, i have know alternators to back drain at rest, do you think those door locks have anything to do with the power drain, as it has current going throught the fuse when you plug it in, could be misleading, look forward to part 3 if there is one, good stuff - Fred uk
I went to uti and not once was the class so in depth
alvaro rojas See when I was at UTI, it was, but I didn’t know enough to understand it. Now that I do, this information is gold and I kinda wanna take them up on those free redos of the classes they give you when you graduate
Hey Paul at around 36:50 I noticed the oil pressure gauge in the car is reading around 40psi when the car was off....Does this vehicle retain the oil pressure reading when turned off or was this part of the problem?
Thanks for the good teaching....keep it up!!
1:46 What could an alternator do with a no-start case like this?
For no starts, meaning it is cranking but not starting, we never worry about the alternator. It is simply not involved in the start up process.
Now if your battery is dead, you obviously need a good charger connected or good battery before attempting a no start diagnostics procedure
@@ScannerDanner I meant if your generator is really bad, a bad regulator in specific. Could it fry the new mounted ecu while cranking?
@@toutsandler3739 during cranking? Absolutely not. But during running if the regulator fails and the system voltage goes over 16v, then yes, some damage to components can happen
One of my biggest pet-peeves is resetting a radio, of course I have to do it out of respect for the owner of the vehicle.
Hi please help me out here with this question
Is it true that Chevy company can disable a car that is across the world and make it not to start and if it's true that no one can repair it or hack into it to able it to run again and what to do to make it run again
10:06 is that radiator cap OK?
Looks like, it's leaking coolant in wires from over flow pipe rigth now.
just on thing you stated just because alternator was charging that was good not necessarily you need to test diodes alternator might be charging well but also throwing out a AC charge too which if bad enough can fry batteries and computers
Hi Paul that's a real pain car, I was surprised mor stuff wasn't fried when that battery charger got inverted, what a clown putting charger clips on the wrong leads, I have a couple of comments, when pulling fuses out looking for drains, I always used to check them with a circuit tester first to see which were live, no point in pulling out fuses that have no power to them right?, saves time...also the one amp drain is about 12 to 15 watts, so maybe it's a small bulb or something, Fred uk
Ohms law. .05volts / 1.0amps = 0.05 ohms. So assume all fuses have 0.05 ohms. If you had 0.1 amps. You would have 0.005 volts. I x R = E. Tough to read on most meters. Nice video!
Did mine with a multimeter mine had 1.18 found it was my factory amp but now it's show 0.68 is this still a concern
.68 across a single fuse using the voltage drop method? Yes, it should be 0v
ScannerDanner it will sit on .68 for a minute then drop to .08
that may be too high as well, is your battery going dead? How old is the battery?
What happened to part 3 as it has been deleted :(
I did ask this on part III not sure if is there for some reason I can't see the video anymore anyway this is my question what steps do you take when you feel like your in a loop????thanks and keep the good Work Mr.Danner.
how you turn the engine light off on a 2004 Dodge pickup .
that prom chip reminded me of the nintendo entertainment system lol
great video ,although i have a question for you away from the subject please , do you think a 44 year old man physically can become a mechanic Profession.
thank you.
Is 44 considered to be old? I would think that you are just now hitting your stride. You would just have to work smarter than the younger guys and let them do the grunt work.
SD would it be possible for Snap On to put a protective fuse/breaker in the charger to prevent this? I am not and expert just curious to know if this would be a feature to look for in a charger. Thank you again for the knowledge you share in an interesting and fun way.
I'm not sure? Thanks!
corndog77511 can’t really have 100% protection on an old battery like this. I’ve seen them blow just sitting there or putting a jump box on them the right way. Dealing with that much energy like in a large 12 volt battery is just one of those things that requires care and attention along with proper safety precautions.
Went to a mercedes c200 with battery drain issue. Was going to do the paraditic drain test but first had issues with battery being 4v. Ok customer says he just fit new alternator. I saw it there gleaming. He said reason was battery went flat after thirty mins driving. Ol so new battery fitted and as I was connecting meter on amp setting between the ground and neg batt terminal, it blew my meter. Over ten amps draw. Ok so un plugged every fuse and every relay, still huge draw. Ok so unplugged starter and still huge draw. WTF?
Any advise...?
Did you unplug the new alternator?
Sir what the omhmeter setup dcv or acv and what range sir thanks
an ohmmeter does not have an AC or DC setting
The voltmeter is set to DC volts for all of this testing
Don't be sorry, I'm sure it will be worth the wait, unless your like my wife and like to tease us! Lol. Thanks for the amazing videos as usual :)
Who the hell wires up a battery charger like that?
That's what I thought that current +&- was inverse or a short 👎🏼
Man I hope you all took that charger completely out of service.. That is a liability waiting to happen..
Daily commute to work
It can only happen to you ! That Sucks! LOL! I remember that vid!
Billy R Paul, off topic a little, but have to ask ya! What ever happen to Rosedale buying equipment for flashing computers. Lov to see some vids on that Sh*t! You the Man Dude!
Billy R Parasitic drain on steroids ( Cables Reversed ) Dude! LOL!
Billy R Paul, I watched this vid about a year ago, but I have to say, that was and still is, a excellent way to teach voltage drop! You are still the Man!
36:00 not 36:50
paul , i have nice informatie that we youse finding a power drain .
this is the info from vw
ill send you a mail whit this info
groet jan van maanen The Netherlands
pre-sets.
lol leave it up to ford
students
BRO, ELECT STANDS FOR ELECTRONIC DEVICES, GREAT VIDEO BTW!!!!