I feel like the subtracting overcomplicates this slightly. Instead I’d rephrase it as: At 1 shanten stop pushing at 8 against a non dealer and 6 against the dealer. For tenpai stop pushing at 13 against a non dealer and 11 against the dealer. This way to find the number all you do is quickly add up the total from the discards and then compare without the added step of subtracting from 18 which doesn’t really serve a purpose.
Not really relevant to the video but I just thought of this: assuming you have no other yaku in your hand, would you call an early riichi on a bad wait? (say a kanchan) In other words, how early exactly does a riichi have to be to be worth calling despite no other yaku, no dealership and a bad wait? Because double riichi is obviously almost always worth going for, but what about turn 4 riichi etc.
It's important to look at other factors like score distribution, which round it is, whether there's many tiles that can improve your hand, whether there's even a need to riichi and take unnecessary risks in the first place, etc. But according to statistics riichi nomi gives an expected value of +500 points when done on turn 5 or earlier. But once you pass turn it drops to -100.
thanks for the vid! where did you get this info from? is it from a book, possibly in english? thinking about what to read when i wrap up rb1 and miinin...
Learnt it from my senior who's currently 7dan in tenhou, who learnt it from japanese textbooks. Not too sure what's the exact title of the book As for english texts I would recommend uzaku's guide to mahjong tile efficiency.
a few things i'm not sure about: why wasn't the 8 pin counted? and what's the logic behind this counter? if their number is lower, that means they have fewer outs, right? and so you should have more safe tiles, right?
According to suji logic by discarding 5p it covers the 8p because he would not have a 67p ryanmen. If the number is lower it is more likely that pushing a dangerous suji would result in you dealing in. E.g. if the counter is at 10 discarding a fresh 3p has a 1/10 chance of dealing in but if the counter is at 6 it becomes 1/6. Yes you will have more "safe tiles" the more the counter goes down. But over-folding isn't good for your total expected value in the long run and sometimes it's statistically better to take a calculated risk and push an "unsafe" suji instead of folding all the way.
i can feel my head spinning
This is the best explanation of suji i have seen in a while! well done! yes please to more vids like this!
Thank you for the guide! The explanation was easy to understand and the visual with all the suji in a suit was very helpful!
This is so helpful! suji concept has been kind of hard to understand for me and this really helped! would love to see more videos like this :)
This kind of theory is invaluable to English speaking players. Thank you so much for sharing with us!
I feel like the subtracting overcomplicates this slightly.
Instead I’d rephrase it as:
At 1 shanten stop pushing at 8 against a non dealer and 6 against the dealer.
For tenpai stop pushing at 13 against a non dealer and 11 against the dealer.
This way to find the number all you do is quickly add up the total from the discards and then compare without the added step of subtracting from 18 which doesn’t really serve a purpose.
Makes sense, thanks for rephrasing it!
Very interesting and informative rule of thumb!
Great guide! Hope we can see more voiceover content in the future
Thank you! This was very easy to understand and it was very helpful!
Very helpful! Thank you for making this
Not really relevant to the video but I just thought of this: assuming you have no other yaku in your hand, would you call an early riichi on a bad wait? (say a kanchan)
In other words, how early exactly does a riichi have to be to be worth calling despite no other yaku, no dealership and a bad wait? Because double riichi is obviously almost always worth going for, but what about turn 4 riichi etc.
It's important to look at other factors like score distribution, which round it is, whether there's many tiles that can improve your hand, whether there's even a need to riichi and take unnecessary risks in the first place, etc.
But according to statistics riichi nomi gives an expected value of +500 points when done on turn 5 or earlier. But once you pass turn it drops to -100.
amazing vidoe!i learnt so much! thank you xanxust
Ichihime emojis are a must!
good video
thanks for the vid! where did you get this info from? is it from a book, possibly in english? thinking about what to read when i wrap up rb1 and miinin...
Learnt it from my senior who's currently 7dan in tenhou, who learnt it from japanese textbooks. Not too sure what's the exact title of the book
As for english texts I would recommend uzaku's guide to mahjong tile efficiency.
@@Xanxust1 i see.. thank you for the suggestion!
a few things i'm not sure about:
why wasn't the 8 pin counted?
and what's the logic behind this counter? if their number is lower, that means they have fewer outs, right? and so you should have more safe tiles, right?
According to suji logic by discarding 5p it covers the 8p because he would not have a 67p ryanmen.
If the number is lower it is more likely that pushing a dangerous suji would result in you dealing in. E.g. if the counter is at 10 discarding a fresh 3p has a 1/10 chance of dealing in but if the counter is at 6 it becomes 1/6.
Yes you will have more "safe tiles" the more the counter goes down. But over-folding isn't good for your total expected value in the long run and sometimes it's statistically better to take a calculated risk and push an "unsafe" suji instead of folding all the way.
@@Xanxust1 thanks! makes sense now
elaine also says good video