Take the Personality Quiz: www.personalityhacker.com/genius-personality-test Get The Personality Hacker Book: amzn.to/37JMJVf Thank you for watching. If you found this valuable - would you take a moment to like & subscribe... then share this with someone you think would enjoy this conversation. Thanks. 🙂 Also - you can come over and take a free personality test here: www.personalityhacker.com/genius-personality-test
Thank you so much for this I have tested as a INFJ and I can completely relate to everything the gentlemen said. It’s refreshing to hear another person speak this way.
As an infp, I'd say that Fi manifests itself as a relentless examination of who I am and what I think. Much of my internal dialogue comes in the form of me talking to an imaginary companion about what my opinions are, and how my mind works. The thing is that I've been doing it all my life, so I've learned a lot. I've done my 10,000 hours on knowing myself. And yes, I do check against what's out in the real world. I mean otherwise I'd constantly walk into things (literally and figuratively). New experiences force me to re-examine my core ideas and form new ones, and that's fine because it keeps things fresh. I'd be bored to tears if I saw things the same way that I did ten years ago. And I'd be wasting my time too. A static mindset is not worth my self-examination. I guess this could be self absorbed. But selfish? Mmmm no. "cause here's the thing: When I encounter another person who interests me, I apply that same relentless examination of what I see of them, as I do to myself. This is tricky and it's easy to be wrong, but once again, I've been doing it all my life (I don't know how to do otherwise), and I've worked on mastering this. This explains a lot of our behavior: we're quiet, we're good listeners, we wear out quickly in social situations. And it explains a lot of our strengths: We're open minded, we're empathic, we're compassionate, we're hard to lie to. In short, We take the techniques we use to know ourselves, and we apply them to knowing others. We care about other people a lot, but it's not like us to show this in some flashy, flamboyant way. We might have mischaracterized someone (Oh, and we've done THAT before!). It's more like us to weave a little kindness into others' lives, by reading peoples' moods, seeing their needs, and quietly addressing them. Without seeking acknowledgement or reward. Because giving isn't about yourself, right?
just reading the first part of this. DANG! I do that except I imagine a friend asking me quetsions so I can know more deeply what I truly think or feel about a situation
I would love to listen if people just talked. Unfortunatly it's hard for me to know when someone has finished their part of the conversation when they do talk. I end up butting in near the end because I wrongly see they were done. My mind flicks so much to myself and how I would feel and my stuff when they are talking and how i feel about what they say. I feel so selfish but I just am really in myself. i do pay attention though I am just really in myself...
This episode brought me to tears at the end! I felt so seen and empowered to believe in my own Light. As an INFP, I definitely champion other's brilliance and unconsciously forget to coach myself. However, when I need to, I can process my inner world like a well-oiled machine. I believe emotions are meant to be felt in order to pass through & carry on. I sometimes forget this is a superpower. Thank you Joel & Antonia for this pep talk of a podcast! :)
INFP here. I hate when people shit talk my boys Ti and Se. Most underappreciated functions ever. Ti is SO necessary to ensure democracy and diversity and debate in thought, something needed to ensure freedom of all kinds. I don’t think Ti-users realize this, but Fi could not exist without them. They’re definitely protecting it. Without Ti advocating for individualist thought, how would I have my freedom of expression? Then, what would be my Fi? People that get annoyed by Ti deserve to be annoyed and need to be made uncomfortable and have their thoughts challenged. And Se, oooommggggg. People that actually live in real life in the moment are so admirable to me. I, like, really focus, and I can maybe notice *one* thing. And reality is often so beautiful, too, is the thing! The present moment is like this gorgeous lake I just want to capture and have all to myself but it’s always slipping through my hands. The people that actually work to make the real world valuable and are actually there to appreciate it are the people that make this a world worth living in.
I think intoverted feeling is a very powerful function, if not the most powerful. Why is that? Well first of all, unlike introverted thinking, it's not constrained by logical rules or principles, it is not commpled to define everything with pendetic precision, Fi gives the impression of rawness, this almost mystical presence, like some indefinable substance under the surface of an individual. Ti is more clear cut, presice, there’s no mystery to it, so its impact and influence is not much noticble like Fi. I find it interesting that you mentioned that Fi users become this living models of the world, and throughout the podcast when you were asking "what does Fi brings to the world?", even from the beginning of the podcast the answer popped in my mind, it was actually very clear to me what the function of Fi actually is, and it's very close to what you arrived at as the living models. Since these psychological types are founded on the archetypes of Carl Jung, the only term came to mind was that all NF types which fall into the idealist category, have the potential to become very powerful living archetypes, and even to shape the entire narrative of societies and civilizations (All types can become a living archetypical example of their own types, but NF are more narrative driven, that's why they are my main focus here). In the past most religious founding figures were of the NF types, be it INFP, ENFP, ENFJ or INFJ. One example would be Jesus, and another Buddha, their influence is undinible, I mean we fixated the caladnder on the birthday of Jesus (BC and AD) if that's not power over narrative and influence I don't know what is. I'm not religious or myself, but I acknowledge the fact that these types really are powerful and can and have stierd many civilization into a new narrative paradigm. They have created new archetypical patterns in which other people can tune in and adopt the patterns in which they have created into their own individual lives, and live according to them, what this means on a fundimental level, Fi is the function that gives life its meaning and value, and it's absolutely illogical to its core. I have come to the conclusion after long periods of contemplation, that the values of societies are inherently illogical, and I don't mean this in a negative way, because values are impossible to be founded on logic, this is a fundamental logical fallacie, but it's actually okay, because this is what gives Fi its power, because it can escape the confines of logic and create these value systems and principals in which a new paradigm of lifestyles is born. So, it is absolutely crucial that all Fi users, specially, Fi dominant and Fi perent users, to become as healthy as possible in order for them to have any positive impact and influence upon the world, they need to become living archetypes and create new living patterns for others to follow. Today, specially in this day in age, where more and more religions are slowly becoming absolete, people are more hungry for meaning and purpose, and without any new "narratives" people can fall into anxious diaper and into nihilism, and it is the duty of Fi users and (I would extend to all NF) to become the new catalysts of the new narratives that will be established in the future.
Ti is raw too. Raw logic, it need not to be precise. it gets precise because of Te because most of the time, they go hand in hand with Thinkers. the purest and rawest Ti is with infjs!
ENFP here. Just heard the part about needing a narrative vs needing a piece of data. All throughout grade school I couldn’t do math at all. Like, really at all. Unless it was a “story problem” in which solving it would help imaginary people find a solution to a real problem, like how to cut a pie so everyone gets a slice. Then, like “magic”, I could do math.
I'm in a low point in life where I feel like my Fi is not appreciated. I feel selfish, self-serving, ignorant and misunderstood. I was feeling worthless and this made me cry and smile at the same time. Very introspective and good tips for personal growth. -ISFP
Thankyou! As an INFP, I find it hard to explain but it feels so much to the degree that it is like a continuum of emotions if that makes sense. I feel like it can be a beneficial way to understand one's self and others and make connections. Although, I can see where it would be misunderstood and viewed as self centered (and may technically be that in a sense), it's like you know you have good intentions, have a desire for harmony, and can see a larger framework or purpose behind using introverted feeling if that makes sense. Another way to explain it might be that you see or want to understand things beyond the surface. I believe it can be a function that can also get easily repressed or bottled up, so it needs an avenue of expression. It is also a function that seeks out answers in who it really is in all of this . Perhaps it already realizes everyone has a different subjective experience anyway and keep seeing the message to just be yourself etc... It is easy to see the hypocrisy in this in a lot of people when you actually be yourself authentically, so it feels right to be true to that and believe everyone has that right as well (not saying it's about letting emotions run riot with unacceptable behavior though but more about a true essence of a person). Sorry for the long ramble, but it got me really thinking about it lol... thanks again great work guys!
If you can't understand the darkness in you or even what is your motivation when you're angry or sad or any other emotions, you can't control it or manage it. That's why people tend to get be addictive on something just to distract or repressed that feeling or emotions which they don't know that if they do that it will only cause a lot more trouble in your life and to the people around you.
I'm only 20 min into this and I am already deeply gratefull you guys did this podcast. Joel, what an inspiring example you are. Thank you and congrats for all the work you've put into your Fi. It really shows in this podcast. And Antonia asked great questions. We can tell she truly gets what Fi is and why the world needs it.
Thank you for another great video! Really clarifying. Around 26-28 mark, what Joel said really resonates with me and pretty much gives me inner confidence that I am a Fi lead! I do find it so awkward trying to articulate what’s going on inside of me, my inner emotional experience, my motivations, my very core self, my unique personhood. I find it impossible to express adequately. Definitely jumbled up words! I just feel that whatever I say or emote is not doing what is going on inside of me justice. An incomplete picture that makes me seem more light minded and probably less caring than I actually am; I come across as cool and aloof so I’ve been told by some people who don’t know me well but rarely am I unaffected by things. Also its been so affirming to hear that Fi can be described as the motivation for action, digging into the root cause of an individuals behaviours, questioning why individuals are the way they are. Whereas Ti is more about beliefs. I have mixed up Ti and Fi a lot although I definitely relate far more to Fi here. For me, my default setting is to question myself, who I am, what makes me “me”, what I have the capacity to do or not do, what I love and prefer, what repulses me and I’ll never do. I can extend that to others and explore who they are at their core and understand where they’re coming from. I enjoy fiction because I can get an insight into the mind of say, a fictional villain who does awful things, and stretch my empathy to understand who they are divorced from their villainy and what their good points are. Develop sympathy for the devil so to speak. But I then asses myself, my unique character, and see the ways in that I am similar to the character and can relate to them. Or how I’m dissimilar and find them completely foreign and repulsive even despite having understanding and sadness for what they became. And would tease out of myself that my nature would not allow me to do the villainous act (like blow up parliament or kick a puppy) There’s always a line, a distinction, between myself and others though!
Interesting that you have been called cool and aloof. I too, an ENFP, have been called that. In my younger years, not so much, and if anything, was criticized for being “too nice” or “too friendly”. I think through some healthy personal growth I learned to better own my truths and validate my inner world rather than trying to get it seen, known or validated through others. From a more defensive/protective place, I may have stopped trying to communicate with others very much to avoid feeling unseen and misunderstood. From a place of preference, I prefer not to spend time and energy around people and in conversation that don’t allow for Fi. I’m a therapist, so use Fi to help my clients all day. It helps me express my gifts in a a way that aligns with my highest values. But there’s still an imbalance in that I am seeing others but not getting my own need to be seen quite enough. It definitely surprised me when I began to hear consistent feedback about being “cool and aloof”. But I guess I can see why.
As an INFP a big takeaway for me is to start vocalizing my compassion when someone is putting someone else down. I would feel it and think it but I generally don't say anything.
Jung believed in God, on his grave headstone, as well as above his door in Switzerland was the statement: Said “Like it or not God is watching” (my translation), but accurate!
For whatever reason... and I do wonder but there is a huge difference between wonder and reason, introverted feeling is a function driven to experience things to understand from the vantage point of “what would this life, circumstance, situation be like.” Introverted feeling is not looking to understand things from standpoint of rationale. They do want to understand things in as close a semblance as possible to reality. People who employ introverted feeling immediately know that there is a big difference between cause and the lingual/abstration of a thing. This is mainly why introverted feeling is not about why but “what is”... what is it really? What’s behind door number two? When someone chooses one path over another, maybe there is some mysterious motivation at work but introverted feeling is mainly about the experience after chance or a combo of motives throws a person further down or up and into a path. Alice in Wonderland, well named. People with Fi are not bent upon understanding only themselves ... not in the least. They wanna know what it’s like to be you or you or you... without getting into a lot storytelling which may or may not convey the experience of being you, in a deep complete enough way for an Fi experiencer. And this is true of just about every Fi first person you will ever meet.
Ultimately in the reduction of meaning, weather you call it life-affirming / acknowledging or life denying , it all comes down to GOOD AND EVIL but those are two opposite sides of the spectrum and you could say that we operate within the spectrum of GOOD AND EVIL, in varying degrees. For the tree of the knowledge of Good and evil is the tree in the garden that we all live by according to sin and we may have also chosen to turn from that tree to be augmented by the TREE OF LIFE.
Hey guys. I believe I'm introverted feeling. God doesn't disrespect your feelings. He wants to be involved in them. I'm not a conservative Christian i grew up that way and felt very out of place. I'm pentecostal and the more I grow in knowing God personally not someone in a book the more I realize my feelings matter to him. I just felt to come on here because God is my friend and I dont want people not knowing him based off your words. No disrespect. I understand your side i just found a way Christianity does match with my type. And its full of excitement and creativity. If you watch Todd White you may see a different side. He loves deeply he is emotional and he is kind. He goes on adventures with Holy Spirit. Much love I'm sorry you had such a rigid experience.
INFP Male here. Heres what i got 1. We understand the rawness of emotions and can understand any reason a person can so anything 2. Since we are better at narratives, we can control our minds better I use My Fi as a way to define who i am in a world thats constantly trying to mold you in it's image
I ENFJ, agree with the reality that we are good story tellers. However I have been victimized by stalking. To having my life threatened... enough about that but things got terrifying. So, ppl have fought this reality (Iyet those who know me, know I would not weave such a story) and yet as I was (prior to difficulty) a “healthy ENFJ” this situation made me “monkey minded”! So in synopsis I believe we as Introverted intuitive and intuitive feeling. This intuitive awakening implies that the world at large functions on fact. This horror I lived was reality. I had not listened to my intuition until I had facts, that was my bad choice. I am healing, I myself would not have believed my own story... but yes, I own my part (not listening to my “gut”) but this did happen. Marginalization does happen. Victimization also does happen, it’s important to acknowledge reality. I am a believer in an ordered universe, hate religion, love God. I believe for all MBTI types have narrative. I see it as perspective. It motivates us to make changes. Hopefully we all own our own “stuff” because therein lay our power to create change. Just my thoughts! Love you two, Love what your putting out here to encourage growth in all!
I feel the need to pause this and say that I don’t think people hate murderers because they remind them that they have a dark side. At least, that’s not why I hate murderers. I hate them because their victim could just as easily have been someone I love, who I wasn’t able to protect. Real people are feeling an unbearable sense of loss and helplessness that i never want to feel, because of this murderer. And so I think it may have to do more with this fear of loss and helplessness.
I think you two are talking about 2 different functions and so are not understanding where the other person is coming from. The first writer, Gabrielle, I believe is offering an Extraverted Feeling perspective. I think the INFP is challenging from an Introverted Feeling perspective.
@@sub.sa.3058 I’m aware that different life circumstances could have turned me into a monster. I’m aware that I have a dark side. It’s not that I’m completely incapable of empathizing with murderers, it’s that my empathy for the victims and everybody who has to feel that loss can make me very angry. So it’s easy for me to imagine that others might also be angry for the same reason I am, instead of an incredibly stupid reason. I am also an INFP by the way and I don’t think the helpless feeling of having an existential crisis is at all comparable to the helpless feeling of having a loved one taken away from you.
@@heartpoint5289 I actually am an INFP I just think that if people can’t empathize with murderers maybe it’s actually for a normal reason and not a stupid one. Like maybe we need to give other types more credit lol
@@gabrielletrzaskowski9275 Yes, that makes sense. You were using Fi to extend understanding to the other person (who hates murderers), who is using their own Fi to arrive at their own decisions. I didn’t know you were an INFP. Your Fi is more dominant than mine (I’m ENFP). I often get an Fe vibe from INFPs because they speak more clearly and with more conviction about their Fi values. So I can misread it as sounding more objective than subjective. When I speak from Fi, people often don’t understand what I’m even saying, or why I’m talking about a topic at all😉
I think Fi users believe as someone wrote below that what they *feel* is the same as what is FACT and those things simply do not go together. As an INTJ, I find trying to work with an Fi user *very difficult* precisely because it’s so subjective and the goal post moves according to that person which simply can not work when you’re dealing with society at large. You have to be able to work from square 1 and we have to agree on what that square is otherwise we’re all one step away from total anarchy. People who think instead of feel have problems too...don’t get me wrong as an INTJ I can attest that we have issues with our need to be efficient and effective and correct (not to be confused with right). But, at least with my ability to come out of myself and move from an objective standpoint I can move through a situation more cohesively. It’s good to have feeling functionality but those who use it as a primary or co-pilot function seem to abuse it in a way that serves 1 and 1 is the loneliest number when people think you can’t be reasoned with or only care about how the world impacts you but not how you impact the world 🌍 I think if the person is healthy with their Fi than I suppose they are wonderful. I would argue Joel’s assessment of the justice system is waaaaay off considering many of the Public Defenders are just their to make a dollar of the degradation of non-white people in America. I think feelers want to sit back and BELIEVE one thing but the reality of the world is overwhelming for them because the *TRUTH* of how shitty the world is bares down on and it gets tough to deal with. It’s important to remember not everything in the world can be compartmentalized into MBTI quadrants, there is systemic racism, greed, and a whole host of other factors that shape society.
Oh wow, you just managed to push my buttons in SO many ways... I'm not offended, don't take it that way, (or, well, initially I was, to be honest...) but the overwhelming feeling that I got from your comment is that you just don't get it, or us, at all. What I feel about things and what the facts are, are not in the same category, they are not comparable. And in general, I think for many Fi users the goal posts are very solid. I may seem to go with the flow, but internally, I am stubbornly upholding my ideals and judging harshly anyone who contradicts them! :D I totally get the idea of working in the justice system and not for the money, but for "the greater good". Also sitting back and trying to escape all the injustice and shittyness in the world is NOT something that comes naturally to an Fi person. Most of us probably have a strong need to act on our beliefs, even if it is something small scale and sometimes invisible to the outside world.
BlairWaldorf2013 wants to understand introverted feeling, and it is not easily detected though it is felt. I do think INTJs, due to their thoughtful ways, are driven to figure it out at times. INTJs like clear cut answers after all.
Yes, this discussion is a misunderstanding. BlairWaldorf2013 does have Fi, in the Tertiary position. I think they tried their best to tap into it and speak to it, but to Fi doms, it feels like they have been misunderstood. If we use the “car model” as a metaphor, that is the equivalent of being misunderstood by a 10 year old. It is also a bit jarring to myself, as an ENFP, who just cried when listening- from the deeply moving experience of being truly seen and understood ( and no, I don’t cry easily or frequently) - to reading a comment that shows such misunderstanding. I don’t know any Fi doms who think their Fi function is synonymous with facts or fact finding. I do see people with Fi in the 3rd, 4th or (if you believe in the model which includes the subconscious positions) lower numbered functions, being afraid that Fi doms will use it as fact, and they, not being skilled in this function, will be powerless against it. And true, as Joel said, that CAN be an unhealthy manifestation of the function. But my hope is that this function itself, nor people who are dominant in it, are conflated with its unhealthy aspects. I also do not hear any claims on this podcast that everything in the world can be explained or solved through the MBTI/Cognitive Functions alone. I also could be uniformed about salary, but my sense is that Public Defenders do not make a lot of money and their career puts them in a position of exposing themselves to the darkest parts of humanity while simultaneously believing in people. Knowing they can do only their part, and ultimately having to accept whatever decisions their clients and the judiciary system make. It doesn’t seem logical that this career is a financially motivated one.
Judge is dictionary definition to, form an opinion or conclusion about. Question is what criteria do you use to form that judgement? You don't rush to judge you perceive how the judgement is formed by process and experience. " you become the narrative". You start to get a deep impression of whats being hinted the more you hear and remember.
I wonder if feeling is deep sensing and intuition is deep thinking. By deep I mean the one is a more complex activity of the other. Feeling is pulling together and evaluating a lot of sensory input. Intuition is interconnecting many streams of thought. Curiously in the one case the perceiving function is the basis of judging while in the other case it is the reverse.
I am struggling to understand why Fi is underrated as an INTJ. I believe we are both individuals and community members - so I think fi identify us as individuals.
@@sethjg3d I can see how he got wound up to the point of becoming Joker. The controversy for many is whether it justifies his meltdown. But tt is kinda missing the pt. Joker is more of a symbol or archetype tt needs just a little empathy not to go the other way, not the mention the betrayal tt can unravel anyone by the seams and threaten to annihilate even a pristine core. I'd never seen heath ledger's version but I must say this movie did a great job in alerting us to the dangers of societal apathy and even cruelty which can crush the human spirit and tbh mental illness prolly stems from tt in some form or fashion. The expression, too little, too late seems to apply well if at all to Joker. What's your take?
@@dazzlingchong I learned alot about what it is like to be mental insane... I've had a rough childhood and had a brush with severe depression, that made me consider suicide... I think what causes many people to becone mass murders is a breakdown of their faith in humanity... when joker found out that everyone in his life, the people who he loved and thought had his best interests in life, were actual terrible people who only cared about themselves, he felt betrayed and wanted to get revenge... all the hardship in his life was because of other people and even the therapist, who was supposed to care about him, didn't. The joker was born out of someone who was hurt too many times; A person who just wanted a roof over their heads; I don't think the joker at heart was a bad person, he just wanted to make people laugh. He was just someone who fell victim to circumstance... he did ask for help many times, but nobody listened to him, because they had their own problems to deal with... when the life he once thought was beautiful and hopeful came crashing down around him, he no longer cared about anything. He made the chaos he felt inside himself, manifest itself in the outside world... This film was less about promotion and more about showing what can happen when the system, society, and loved ones fail to meet the needs of someone who desperately needs it. This is definitely a very deep film, which is why it's rated R... those are just a few thoughts I had on it
@@sethjg3d Beautifully articulated, thks for sharing, Seth. It's hard sometimes for NF to navigate in a world that shuns or dun understand the emotional intensity of Fi due to its depth. After a while, it seems easier to shut off tt part of self, while reserving it for those who get it. As an ENFP, I hv had to learn not to wear my heart on my sleeve and it can be pretty hard cos I can see universal partterns of suffering while feeling the pain of the incumbent in a Fi empathetic manner. It can mess NFPees up cos we dun wanna harden our hearts either despite the calluses of rejection towards our empathy. So, an Infp, how do you apply your superpower or strike a balance in the world we live in? More power to you!
Why is it beneficial? hhmmm I might answer again but for now, In short One can't be ambiguous to be whole i.e. good or bad, It is the process of authentication. It allows you to be constrained by what is right, which is what most people hate about Fi, entitlement right, but the argument is justification. Its a process. Therefore Fi seeks to be justified again question is who does the justifying. Something outside or inside that is distinguished from the subject or object and wholly acknowledged to be entitled to do so, needs to carryout this judgement. That is the journey right how do you judge what judgement do you use? Judge not least you be judged right (Matthew 7:1). If you can acknowledge that you are fallible then you can accept the help of an infallible being, if you desire to be justified. Of-cause the question is can I, you, see the need if you can't then say no more. But then you couldn't be justified you see its not complicated but it can be complicated you see? It is the process of authentication we get it wrong when we assume authenticity how can you judge yourself if you consider this to be true? The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? Jeremiah 17:9. Its important to judge right and doing so in the least words as possible why? well because, "When there are too many words, transgression is unavoidable, But he who restrains his lips is wise. Why are introverts so quite and utter few words?"
Judge is dictionary definition to, form an opinion or conclusion about. Question is what criteria do you use to form that judgement? Authoritative Fi - Te both are seeking authoritative meaning. Judge not least ye be judged
Take the Personality Quiz: www.personalityhacker.com/genius-personality-test
Get The Personality Hacker Book: amzn.to/37JMJVf
Thank you for watching. If you found this valuable - would you take a moment to like & subscribe... then share this with someone you think would enjoy this conversation. Thanks. 🙂 Also - you can come over and take a free personality test here: www.personalityhacker.com/genius-personality-test
Thank you so much for this I have tested as a INFJ and I can completely relate to everything the gentlemen said. It’s refreshing to hear another person speak this way.
As an infp, I'd say that Fi manifests itself as a relentless examination of who I am and what I think. Much of my internal dialogue comes in the form of me talking to an imaginary companion about what my opinions are, and how my mind works. The thing is that I've been doing it all my life, so I've learned a lot. I've done my 10,000 hours on knowing myself. And yes, I do check against what's out in the real world. I mean otherwise I'd constantly walk into things (literally and figuratively). New experiences force me to re-examine my core ideas and form new ones, and that's fine because it keeps things fresh. I'd be bored to tears if I saw things the same way that I did ten years ago. And I'd be wasting my time too. A static mindset is not worth my self-examination.
I guess this could be self absorbed. But selfish? Mmmm no. "cause here's the thing: When I encounter another person who interests me, I apply that same relentless examination of what I see of them, as I do to myself. This is tricky and it's easy to be wrong, but once again, I've been doing it all my life (I don't know how to do otherwise), and I've worked on mastering this. This explains a lot of our behavior: we're quiet, we're good listeners, we wear out quickly in social situations. And it explains a lot of our strengths: We're open minded, we're empathic, we're compassionate, we're hard to lie to. In short, We take the techniques we use to know ourselves, and we apply them to knowing others.
We care about other people a lot, but it's not like us to show this in some flashy, flamboyant way. We might have mischaracterized someone (Oh, and we've done THAT before!). It's more like us to weave a little kindness into others' lives, by reading peoples' moods, seeing their needs, and quietly addressing them. Without seeking acknowledgement or reward. Because giving isn't about yourself, right?
👌
just reading the first part of this. DANG! I do that except I imagine a friend asking me quetsions so I can know more deeply what I truly think or feel about a situation
I would love to listen if people just talked. Unfortunatly it's hard for me to know when someone has finished their part of the conversation when they do talk. I end up butting in near the end because I wrongly see they were done. My mind flicks so much to myself and how I would feel and my stuff when they are talking and how i feel about what they say. I feel so selfish but I just am really in myself. i do pay attention though I am just really in myself...
Incredible. Thanks for explaining this it really has helped me understand infps more 💖
-infj
So true.
This episode brought me to tears at the end! I felt so seen and empowered to believe in my own Light. As an INFP, I definitely champion other's brilliance and unconsciously forget to coach myself. However, when I need to, I can process my inner world like a well-oiled machine. I believe emotions are meant to be felt in order to pass through & carry on. I sometimes forget this is a superpower. Thank you Joel & Antonia for this pep talk of a podcast! :)
INFP here.
I hate when people shit talk my boys Ti and Se. Most underappreciated functions ever.
Ti is SO necessary to ensure democracy and diversity and debate in thought, something needed to ensure freedom of all kinds. I don’t think Ti-users realize this, but Fi could not exist without them. They’re definitely protecting it. Without Ti advocating for individualist thought, how would I have my freedom of expression? Then, what would be my Fi? People that get annoyed by Ti deserve to be annoyed and need to be made uncomfortable and have their thoughts challenged.
And Se, oooommggggg. People that actually live in real life in the moment are so admirable to me. I, like, really focus, and I can maybe notice *one* thing. And reality is often so beautiful, too, is the thing! The present moment is like this gorgeous lake I just want to capture and have all to myself but it’s always slipping through my hands. The people that actually work to make the real world valuable and are actually there to appreciate it are the people that make this a world worth living in.
I think intoverted feeling is a very powerful function, if not the most powerful. Why is that? Well first of all, unlike introverted thinking, it's not constrained by logical rules or principles, it is not commpled to define everything with pendetic precision,
Fi gives the impression of rawness, this almost mystical presence, like some indefinable substance under the surface of an individual. Ti is more clear cut, presice, there’s no mystery to it, so its impact and influence is not much noticble like Fi.
I find it interesting that you mentioned that Fi users become this living models of the world, and throughout the podcast when you were asking "what does Fi brings to the world?", even from the beginning of the podcast the answer popped in my mind, it was actually very clear to me what the function of Fi actually is, and it's very close to what you arrived at as the living models.
Since these psychological types are founded on the archetypes of Carl Jung, the only term came to mind was that all NF types which fall into the idealist category, have the potential to become very powerful living archetypes, and even to shape the entire narrative of societies and civilizations (All types can become a living archetypical example of their own types, but NF are more narrative driven, that's why they are my main focus here). In the past most religious founding figures were of the NF types, be it INFP, ENFP, ENFJ or INFJ. One example would be Jesus, and another Buddha, their influence is undinible, I mean we fixated the caladnder on the birthday of Jesus (BC and AD) if that's not power over narrative and influence I don't know what is. I'm not religious or myself, but I acknowledge the fact that these types really are powerful and can and have stierd many civilization into a new narrative paradigm. They have created new archetypical patterns in which other people can tune in and adopt the patterns in which they have created into their own individual lives, and live according to them, what this means on a fundimental level, Fi is the function that gives life its meaning and value, and it's absolutely illogical to its core. I have come to the conclusion after long periods of contemplation, that the values of societies are inherently illogical, and I don't mean this in a negative way, because values are impossible to be founded on logic, this is a fundamental logical fallacie, but it's actually okay, because this is what gives Fi its power, because it can escape the confines of logic and create these value systems and principals in which a new paradigm of lifestyles is born.
So, it is absolutely crucial that all Fi users, specially, Fi dominant and Fi perent users, to become as healthy as possible in order for them to have any positive impact and influence upon the world, they need to become living archetypes and create new living patterns for others to follow. Today, specially in this day in age, where more and more religions are slowly becoming absolete, people are more hungry for meaning and purpose, and without any new "narratives" people can fall into anxious diaper and into nihilism, and it is the duty of Fi users and (I would extend to all NF) to become the new catalysts of the new narratives that will be established in the future.
Beautiful
Debatable.
Ti is raw too. Raw logic, it need not to be precise. it gets precise because of Te because most of the time, they go hand in hand with Thinkers. the purest and rawest Ti is with infjs!
I agree 100% with everything you said
@@redefinedliving5974 INFJs use tertiary Ti. Pure Ti is used by INTPs
ENFP here. Just heard the part about needing a narrative vs needing a piece of data.
All throughout grade school I couldn’t do math at all. Like, really at all. Unless it was a “story problem” in which solving it would help imaginary people find a solution to a real problem, like how to cut a pie so everyone gets a slice. Then, like “magic”, I could do math.
Wow. Wow and wow. This was profound and beautiful. Thank you for sharing your insights ❤️
I'm in a low point in life where I feel like my Fi is not appreciated. I feel selfish, self-serving, ignorant and misunderstood. I was feeling worthless and this made me cry and smile at the same time. Very introspective and good tips for personal growth.
-ISFP
Thankyou! As an INFP, I find it hard to explain but it feels so much to the degree that it is like a continuum of emotions if that makes sense. I feel like it can be a beneficial way to understand one's self and others and make connections. Although, I can see where it would be misunderstood and viewed as self centered (and may technically be that in a sense), it's like you know you have good intentions, have a desire for harmony, and can see a larger framework or purpose behind using introverted feeling if that makes sense. Another way to explain it might be that you see or want to understand things beyond the surface. I believe it can be a function that can also get easily repressed or bottled up, so it needs an avenue of expression. It is also a function that seeks out answers in who it really is in all of this . Perhaps it already realizes everyone has a different subjective experience anyway and keep seeing the message to just be yourself etc... It is easy to see the hypocrisy in this in a lot of people when you actually be yourself authentically, so it feels right to be true to that and believe everyone has that right as well (not saying it's about letting emotions run riot with unacceptable behavior though but more about a true essence of a person). Sorry for the long ramble, but it got me really thinking about it lol... thanks again great work guys!
YUP. ( answering to It is also a function that seeks out answers in who it really is in all of this . )
If you can't understand the darkness in you or even what is your motivation when you're angry or sad or any other emotions, you can't control it or manage it. That's why people tend to get be addictive on something just to distract or repressed that feeling or emotions which they don't know that if they do that it will only cause a lot more trouble in your life and to the people around you.
I'm only 20 min into this and I am already deeply gratefull you guys did this podcast. Joel, what an inspiring example you are. Thank you and congrats for all the work you've put into your Fi. It really shows in this podcast. And Antonia asked great questions. We can tell she truly gets what Fi is and why the world needs it.
Thank you for another great video! Really clarifying. Around 26-28 mark, what Joel said really resonates with me and pretty much gives me inner confidence that I am a Fi lead!
I do find it so awkward trying to articulate what’s going on inside of me, my inner emotional experience, my motivations, my very core self, my unique personhood. I find it impossible to express adequately.
Definitely jumbled up words! I just feel that whatever I say or emote is not doing what is going on inside of me justice. An incomplete picture that makes me seem more light minded and probably less caring than I actually am; I come across as cool and aloof so I’ve been told by some people who don’t know me well but rarely am I unaffected by things.
Also its been so affirming to hear that Fi can be described as the motivation for action, digging into the root cause of an individuals behaviours, questioning why individuals are the way they are. Whereas Ti is more about beliefs. I have mixed up Ti and Fi a lot although I definitely relate far more to Fi here.
For me, my default setting is to question myself, who I am, what makes me “me”, what I have the capacity to do or not do, what I love and prefer, what repulses me and I’ll never do. I can extend that to others and explore who they are at their core and understand where they’re coming from. I enjoy fiction because I can get an insight into the mind of say, a fictional villain who does awful things, and stretch my empathy to understand who they are divorced from their villainy and what their good points are. Develop sympathy for the devil so to speak. But I then asses myself, my unique character, and see the ways in that I am similar to the character and can relate to them. Or how I’m dissimilar and find them completely foreign and repulsive even despite having understanding and sadness for what they became.
And would tease out of myself that my nature would not allow me to do the villainous act (like blow up parliament or kick a puppy)
There’s always a line, a distinction, between myself and others though!
Interesting that you have been called cool and aloof. I too, an ENFP, have been called that. In my younger years, not so much, and if anything, was criticized for being “too nice” or “too friendly”.
I think through some healthy personal growth I learned to better own my truths and validate my inner world rather than trying to get it seen, known or validated through others.
From a more defensive/protective place, I may have stopped trying to communicate with others very much to avoid feeling unseen and misunderstood.
From a place of preference, I prefer not to spend time and energy around people and in conversation that don’t allow for Fi.
I’m a therapist, so use Fi to help my clients all day. It helps me express my gifts in a a way that aligns with my highest values.
But there’s still an imbalance in that I am seeing others but not getting my own need to be seen quite enough.
It definitely surprised me when I began to hear consistent feedback about being “cool and aloof”. But I guess I can see why.
As an INFP a big takeaway for me is to start vocalizing my compassion when someone is putting someone else down. I would feel it and think it but I generally don't say anything.
Jung believed in God, on his grave headstone, as well as above his door in Switzerland was the statement: Said “Like it or not God is watching” (my translation), but accurate!
Omg so true people DO NOT want to let go of victimhood! No judgement but seriously the truth.
So well explained! Very helpful!
[INFP] As much as these videos help us... I think that these videos help you guys too
That's what is called a 'win/win', the thing everyone is looking for in every interaction. :D
-A-
Joel! They might say you're controversial but you are perfectly correct. Man. You got this down.
For whatever reason... and I do wonder but there is a huge difference between wonder and reason, introverted feeling is a function driven to experience things to understand from the vantage point of “what would this life, circumstance, situation be like.” Introverted feeling is not looking to understand things from standpoint of rationale. They do want to understand things in as close a semblance as possible to reality. People who employ introverted feeling immediately know that there is a big difference between cause and the lingual/abstration of a thing. This is mainly why introverted feeling is not about why but “what is”... what is it really? What’s behind door number two? When someone chooses one path over another, maybe there is some mysterious motivation at work but introverted feeling is mainly about the experience after chance or a combo of motives throws a person further down or up and into a path. Alice in Wonderland, well named. People with Fi are not bent upon understanding only themselves ... not in the least. They wanna know what it’s like to be you or you or you... without getting into a lot storytelling which may or may not convey the experience of being you, in a deep complete enough way for an Fi experiencer. And this is true of just about every Fi first person you will ever meet.
👌
agree but it's more like sympathy with Fi users. Less personal.
Ultimately in the reduction of meaning, weather you call it life-affirming / acknowledging or life denying , it all comes down to GOOD AND EVIL but those are two opposite sides of the spectrum and you could say that we operate within the spectrum of GOOD AND EVIL, in varying degrees.
For the tree of the knowledge of Good and evil is the tree in the garden that we all live by according to sin and we may have also chosen to turn from that tree to be augmented by the TREE OF LIFE.
Hey guys. I believe I'm introverted feeling. God doesn't disrespect your feelings. He wants to be involved in them.
I'm not a conservative Christian i grew up that way and felt very out of place.
I'm pentecostal and the more I grow in knowing God personally not someone in a book the more I realize my feelings matter to him.
I just felt to come on here because God is my friend and I dont want people not knowing him based off your words.
No disrespect.
I understand your side i just found a way Christianity does match with my type. And its full of excitement and creativity.
If you watch Todd White you may see a different side. He loves deeply he is emotional and he is kind. He goes on adventures with Holy Spirit.
Much love
I'm sorry you had such a rigid experience.
INFP Male here.
Heres what i got
1. We understand the rawness of emotions and can understand any reason a person can so anything
2. Since we are better at narratives, we can control our minds better
I use My Fi as a way to define who i am in a world thats constantly trying to mold you in it's image
I LOVE this! Needed it.
I ENFJ, agree with the reality that we are good story tellers. However I have been victimized by stalking. To having my life threatened... enough about that but things got terrifying. So, ppl have fought this reality (Iyet those who know me, know I would not weave such a story) and yet as I was (prior to difficulty) a “healthy ENFJ” this situation made me “monkey minded”! So in synopsis I believe we as Introverted intuitive and intuitive feeling. This intuitive awakening implies that the world at large functions on fact. This horror I lived was reality. I had not listened to my intuition until I had facts, that was my bad choice. I am healing, I myself would not have believed my own story... but yes, I own my part (not listening to my “gut”) but this did happen. Marginalization does happen. Victimization also does happen, it’s important to acknowledge reality. I am a believer in an ordered universe, hate religion, love God. I believe for all MBTI types have narrative. I see it as perspective. It motivates us to make changes. Hopefully we all own our own “stuff” because therein lay our power to create change. Just my thoughts! Love you two, Love what your putting out here to encourage growth in all!
Aw sweet. Thanks for the podcast! Namaste! ❤
I feel the need to pause this and say that I don’t think people hate murderers because they remind them that they have a dark side. At least, that’s not why I hate murderers. I hate them because their victim could just as easily have been someone I love, who I wasn’t able to protect. Real people are feeling an unbearable sense of loss and helplessness that i never want to feel, because of this murderer. And so I think it may have to do more with this fear of loss and helplessness.
I think you two are talking about 2 different functions and so are not understanding where the other person is coming from. The first writer, Gabrielle, I believe is offering an Extraverted Feeling perspective. I think the INFP is challenging from an Introverted Feeling perspective.
@@sub.sa.3058 I’m aware that different life circumstances could have turned me into a monster. I’m aware that I have a dark side. It’s not that I’m completely incapable of empathizing with murderers, it’s that my empathy for the victims and everybody who has to feel that loss can make me very angry. So it’s easy for me to imagine that others might also be angry for the same reason I am, instead of an incredibly stupid reason. I am also an INFP by the way and I don’t think the helpless feeling of having an existential crisis is at all comparable to the helpless feeling of having a loved one taken away from you.
@@heartpoint5289 I actually am an INFP I just think that if people can’t empathize with murderers maybe it’s actually for a normal reason and not a stupid one. Like maybe we need to give other types more credit lol
@@gabrielletrzaskowski9275 Yes, that makes sense. You were using Fi to extend understanding to the other person (who hates murderers), who is using their own Fi to arrive at their own decisions. I didn’t know you were an INFP. Your Fi is more dominant than mine (I’m ENFP). I often get an Fe vibe from INFPs because they speak more clearly and with more conviction about their Fi values. So I can misread it as sounding more objective than subjective.
When I speak from Fi, people often don’t understand what I’m even saying, or why I’m talking about a topic at all😉
Reflection is one essentil skill for survival and growth - does Fi has a key role to play here perhaps?
Interesting to hear how Joel uses Fi to coach himself. I can relate to that and shall be more attentive of how I too can do this.
I think Fi users believe as someone wrote below that what they *feel* is the same as what is FACT and those things simply do not go together.
As an INTJ, I find trying to work with an Fi user *very difficult* precisely because it’s so subjective and the goal post moves according to that person which simply can not work when you’re dealing with society at large. You have to be able to work from square 1 and we have to agree on what that square is otherwise we’re all one step away from total anarchy.
People who think instead of feel have problems too...don’t get me wrong as an INTJ I can attest that we have issues with our need to be efficient and effective and correct (not to be confused with right). But, at least with my ability to come out of myself and move from an objective standpoint I can move through a situation more cohesively.
It’s good to have feeling functionality but those who use it as a primary or co-pilot function seem to abuse it in a way that serves 1 and 1 is the loneliest number when people think you can’t be reasoned with or only care about how the world impacts you but not how you impact the world 🌍
I think if the person is healthy with their Fi than I suppose they are wonderful. I would argue Joel’s assessment of the justice system is waaaaay off considering many of the Public Defenders are just their to make a dollar of the degradation of non-white people in America.
I think feelers want to sit back and BELIEVE one thing but the reality of the world is overwhelming for them because the *TRUTH* of how shitty the world is bares down on and it gets tough to deal with.
It’s important to remember not everything in the world can be compartmentalized into MBTI quadrants, there is systemic racism, greed, and a whole host of other factors that shape society.
Oh wow, you just managed to push my buttons in SO many ways... I'm not offended, don't take it that way, (or, well, initially I was, to be honest...) but the overwhelming feeling that I got from your comment is that you just don't get it, or us, at all. What I feel about things and what the facts are, are not in the same category, they are not comparable. And in general, I think for many Fi users the goal posts are very solid. I may seem to go with the flow, but internally, I am stubbornly upholding my ideals and judging harshly anyone who contradicts them! :D
I totally get the idea of working in the justice system and not for the money, but for "the greater good". Also sitting back and trying to escape all the injustice and shittyness in the world is NOT something that comes naturally to an Fi person. Most of us probably have a strong need to act on our beliefs, even if it is something small scale and sometimes invisible to the outside world.
BlairWaldorf2013 wants to understand introverted feeling, and it is not easily detected though it is felt. I do think INTJs, due to their thoughtful ways, are driven to figure it out at times. INTJs like clear cut answers after all.
Yes, this discussion is a misunderstanding. BlairWaldorf2013 does have Fi, in the Tertiary position. I think they tried their best to tap into it and speak to it, but to Fi doms, it feels like they have been misunderstood. If we use the “car model” as a metaphor, that is the equivalent of being misunderstood by a 10 year old.
It is also a bit jarring to myself, as an ENFP, who just cried when listening- from the deeply moving experience of being truly seen and understood ( and no, I don’t cry easily or frequently) - to reading a comment that shows such misunderstanding.
I don’t know any Fi doms who think their Fi function is synonymous with facts or fact finding.
I do see people with Fi in the 3rd, 4th or (if you believe in the model which includes the subconscious positions) lower numbered functions, being afraid that Fi doms will use it as fact, and they, not being skilled in this function, will be powerless against it.
And true, as Joel said, that CAN be an unhealthy manifestation of the function. But my hope is that this function itself, nor people who are dominant in it, are conflated with its unhealthy aspects.
I also do not hear any claims on this podcast that everything in the world can be explained or solved through the MBTI/Cognitive Functions alone.
I also could be uniformed about salary, but my sense is that Public Defenders do not make a lot of money and their career puts them in a position of exposing themselves to the darkest parts of humanity while simultaneously believing in people. Knowing they can do only their part, and ultimately having to accept whatever decisions their clients and the judiciary system make.
It doesn’t seem logical that this career is a financially motivated one.
Judge is dictionary definition to, form an opinion or conclusion about. Question is what criteria do you use to form that judgement? You don't rush to judge you perceive how the judgement is formed by process and experience. " you become the narrative". You start to get a deep impression of whats being hinted the more you hear and remember.
Woo-hoo mind-blowing!!
God, the hilarious end makes me love you guys more 😆😂
I wonder if feeling is deep sensing and intuition is deep thinking. By deep I mean the one is a more complex activity of the other. Feeling is pulling together and evaluating a lot of sensory input. Intuition is interconnecting many streams of thought.
Curiously in the one case the perceiving function is the basis of judging while in the other case it is the reverse.
THE RUSH OF SEROTONIN WHEN I HEAR THE FUCKING INTRO AKSJAKSJKAJSJA
All reasons are bullshit. Yes rationalizations! Couldn’t agree more !
I am struggling to understand why Fi is underrated as an INTJ. I believe we are both individuals and community members - so I think fi identify us as individuals.
Yeeeeeees!!!
Joker would hv bn a great movie to explore Fi!! Wld love to hear your take on it, guys! 🤴😅😎🤡
[INFP] Just saw it... ya... definitely an Fi movie
@@sethjg3d I can see how he got wound up to the point of becoming Joker. The controversy for many is whether it justifies his meltdown. But tt is kinda missing the pt. Joker is more of a symbol or archetype tt needs just a little empathy not to go the other way, not the mention the betrayal tt can unravel anyone by the seams and threaten to annihilate even a pristine core. I'd never seen heath ledger's version but I must say this movie did a great job in alerting us to the dangers of societal apathy and even cruelty which can crush the human spirit and tbh mental illness prolly stems from tt in some form or fashion. The expression, too little, too late seems to apply well if at all to Joker. What's your take?
@@dazzlingchong I learned alot about what it is like to be mental insane... I've had a rough childhood and had a brush with severe depression, that made me consider suicide... I think what causes many people to becone mass murders is a breakdown of their faith in humanity... when joker found out that everyone in his life, the people who he loved and thought had his best interests in life, were actual terrible people who only cared about themselves, he felt betrayed and wanted to get revenge... all the hardship in his life was because of other people and even the therapist, who was supposed to care about him, didn't. The joker was born out of someone who was hurt too many times; A person who just wanted a roof over their heads; I don't think the joker at heart was a bad person, he just wanted to make people laugh. He was just someone who fell victim to circumstance... he did ask for help many times, but nobody listened to him, because they had their own problems to deal with... when the life he once thought was beautiful and hopeful came crashing down around him, he no longer cared about anything. He made the chaos he felt inside himself, manifest itself in the outside world...
This film was less about promotion and more about showing what can happen when the system, society, and loved ones fail to meet the needs of someone who desperately needs it. This is definitely a very deep film, which is why it's rated R... those are just a few thoughts I had on it
@@sethjg3d Beautifully articulated, thks for sharing, Seth. It's hard sometimes for NF to navigate in a world that shuns or dun understand the emotional intensity of Fi due to its depth. After a while, it seems easier to shut off tt part of self, while reserving it for those who get it. As an ENFP, I hv had to learn not to wear my heart on my sleeve and it can be pretty hard cos I can see universal partterns of suffering while feeling the pain of the incumbent in a Fi empathetic manner. It can mess NFPees up cos we dun wanna harden our hearts either despite the calluses of rejection towards our empathy. So, an Infp, how do you apply your superpower or strike a balance in the world we live in? More power to you!
Why is it beneficial? hhmmm I might answer again but for now, In short One can't be ambiguous to be whole i.e. good or bad, It is the process of authentication. It allows you to be constrained by what is right, which is what most people hate about Fi, entitlement right, but the argument is justification. Its a process. Therefore Fi seeks to be justified again question is who does the justifying. Something outside or inside that is distinguished from the subject or object and wholly acknowledged to be entitled to do so, needs to carryout this judgement. That is the journey right how do you judge what judgement do you use? Judge not least you be judged right (Matthew 7:1). If you can acknowledge that you are fallible then you can accept the help of an infallible being, if you desire to be justified. Of-cause the question is can I, you, see the need if you can't then say no more. But then you couldn't be justified you see its not complicated but it can be complicated you see? It is the process of authentication we get it wrong when we assume authenticity how can you judge yourself if you consider this to be true? The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? Jeremiah 17:9. Its important to judge right and doing so in the least words as possible why? well because, "When there are too many words, transgression is unavoidable, But he who restrains his lips is wise. Why are introverts so quite and utter few words?"
Ya ll said we need to do aer or we will get depressed and now you say art is a shadow art. We don't need art😊
Judge is dictionary definition to, form an opinion or conclusion about. Question is what criteria do you use to form that judgement? Authoritative Fi - Te both are seeking authoritative meaning. Judge not least ye be judged
How can I be careful in life? Because I have foot in mouth disorder
Off topic but bro, you were in a Christian cult. That's messed up.