Thank you JW, that pretty much explains and confirms my thoughts that the 30 series I'm working on can't handle the power of the engine combined with the weight of the kart. Thank you for replying back to me.
There are a lot of videos out there on tuning GY6 type CVT's but I have not seen many on the Comet torque converters, so this is good information. I don't think most people understand how they work or how dramatically proper tuning will change the performance of their machine. While I don't agree with you regarding the bushing you throw away, I can see why getting stuck in high gear would suck. I think that the issue is simply that the bushing is stretching itself out over time and fits loose on the shaft and becomes tight on the sleeve. I would replace it not just eliminate it.
I’m not saying he is wrong but I’ve seen first hand what he is talking about and yes it’s all true and possible but it happens bc the things get dirty and clogged. What rider cleans the belt debris after each ride. Who knows about breaking in the belt with 2 heat cycles of about 15 min followed by cooling, or that if you lubricate both pulleys and apply a grease to the tension springs and clean the inside of the driver pulley and cause micro abrasions to the part of the driver that grabs the belt for better friction contact when the cvt engages thus less belt slipping. Not to mention your chain and sprocket rusty. A little WD-40 and a wire brush against the chain and ran the engine at a low and safe rpm with bearings g protection you could have that chain sparkling for the video The point is there is so many factors so unless you consider it all then I’d advise against going against the engineering but if you don’t feel like doing all that maintenance then yeah throw the bronze ring away it’s just there to help the belt slip when idling so that it’s not engaging 24/7
Great vid . I had a keyed sleeve on the driver break into pieces. Since I have the upgraded flywheel I may just put a juggernaut on it and lose the gov.. unless I can buy that sleeve sold separately
Just a note on the comment "you can use a regular washer" on the primary. I had a weak washer that wore out and spun the outside cover off sending the weights flying violently blew up my cover, but luckily missed me. I would not run one of these without that washer, that is just me because I don't want to get hit with flying metal.
Interesting, my oldest converter has only had a washer on it for at least 6 years or so and I haven’t had an issue. I usually get grade 8 washers in bulk though from tractor supply so they are pretty strong. How did the washer cause the failure? Did it collapse or did the bolt just come off?
I made a specialty washed out of a brass bushing, it wore through or the brass was soft enough for the clutch to push it and deform it. But ether way I would not trust a regular washer, I do run my bike somewhat harder than most. @@jwsbackyard6413
@@jwsbackyard6413Explain. My parts came flying off not long ago and I was wondering if it’s because the bolt was coming loose and I’m considering loctite or something for it.
Yeah as long as the bolt is in nothing should be able to fly off. Loctite may help but an impact wrench is pretty effective at keeping the bolt on. If you don’t have an impact you can use a rubber strap wrench to hold the driver why you torque the bolt down.
@jwsbackyard6413 I have a question for you. So I bought a riser for my son's go-kart. I went out and bought another chain cause, of course, now that the motor is higher, the chain wasn't going to fit. I got 10 feet of chain and just shortened it to where I needed it,but the chain is a little loose, and if I take another link out, it will be too short. So, do I need a different size chain or a different sprocket? The chain keeps popping off.
Great video! Do you know what the thread pitch/bolt for the 4 bolts that holds the backer plate to the engine. The ones you said don’t over tighten and they will strip
Son of a gun I asked a question on another video an I think you answered it with this one I believe I got my lock but too tight but on mine the bolt it self sticks threw 3/4 of a inch it is a used one so idk what cause of this is but I got it with nut all the way snug an nylon stop gone out of it. If I did stop where it was supposed to stop I don’t imagine 1/2 to 3/4 gap from back the nut to the face of the driven pully would be safe huh ?
I would personally just get it snug and use lock tite if the nylon is gone. The gap may not effect it though because a lot of people leave their clutches/sprockets float with some movement side to side to help the pulleys/sprockets stay aligned on their own.
Thanks for making this video! Question: at about video time 2:12 when you pulled the "driver" off, I noticed about a half inch of shaft remaining on the motor driveshaft. It appears the driver is at least an inch deep. It looks like the driver assembly doesn't have much to hang onto. Can you expand on this? The motor I just replaced on my go cart had a 3 inch long shaft. The new predator engine I just put on has a 2.5 inch long shaft. Will I have problems with the 30 series torque converter and shaft length??
You really only need a small amount of engagement for it to work. Most of my converters have around a 1/2 an inch or less of engagement and they all work fine. You just need a longer bolt to secure it. If you have the 30 series with the backing plate you won’t have any issues with the 2.5 shaft on the predator. If it’s a different style 30 series with the driven pulley on a separate mount you may have to play around with engine or pulley position for proper alignment but the driver should still mount on the shaft just fine. Here’s a short where I talk about it. When You Have A Short Shaft 196cc Diesel/ 30 Series Torque Converter #gokart #torque converter ua-cam.com/users/shortsrBHK8GUQrwg?feature=share
@@jwsbackyard6413 I installed the entire setup on a 100cc Gas bike using all of the tips in this video man. I wish I could buy you a pack of Parliament Lights Menthol. When I was trying to mount this on my things, I was totally hung up on the oil-lite bushing (The ring of death). After watching this, I bought a stainless shaft adapter to fit it to my engine. I figured before I put any oil in it, I would remove the governor and all the associated parts. I got that done then reassembled it. I decided to mount the 100cc on its front against the seat tube with the jug straight up and it looks like a moto Guzi ha-ha. I couldn't figure out how the thing was going to work when I couldn't get the belt on. That DAMMED OILLITE was jammed in there stopping it from coming together. I couldn't have done it (as fast) without you.
@@jwsbackyard6413 I meant the grooved piece you slide on . Mine had something in it. . but I was able to knock it out . Great video, I learned a lot from this video.
You can get replacement buttons on the kart sites like go power sports for under $10. You just have to take the cap and spring off then tap in the new button with a little adhesive or locktite on it. Missing buttons can damage the spring.
I would like to put the final drive sprocket outside of the torque converter box for use on a bicycle with 79 cc engine but I can’t figure out how to do it with a pressed into that bearing
Just so I’m understanding what you mean. Are you trying to put the sprocket on the back side of the driven shaft or on the very end of the shaft on the outside of the driven pulley?
Gotcha, I’ve seen people push the shaft for the driven pulley through and mount the sprocket on the back side. The shaft has a lip preventing it from sliding one direction that you would have to deal with. Would likely have to change bearing at the front side of the backing plate.
I'm curious if you have an answer or maybe some possible solutions to a problem i'm having. I have a 30 series on a Kenbar cart where the spacing requires a much longer belt and I'm lucky to get 30 minutes before the belt wears down probably 30% of its surface. The only belt i've used so far is a genuine comet 203599, which still seems a tad loose, but the 203598 is too small and doesn't fit. Appreciate it.
I’m not sure if your set up would allow for it but I have slotted my engine mounts so that I can move my engine to get the belt tight. I have also used washers to lift the engine some to get some tension on the chain or belt when I didn’t have room to slide it forward/backwards. Other things to consider with the belt wear is the weight of the cart and gearing. My heavier karts go through belts fast. The 30 series really struggles to clamp the belt on my heavier karts. Also I’ve seen the 30 series struggle with really low gearing.
You don't have another choice if the 598 belt is too tight. The 599 belt is the longest belt for a 30 series. 598 is the second longest. Your spacing pully to pully is just in between these two belt sizes.
Comet has a variety of belts for the 30 series that can be order. They are more expensive than the two common sizes but there are a ton of sizes available.
for the pulley do you need the washer for the locknut I have seen some videos of other people without it and mine does not have it and my lock nut came flying off the other day If I need it any idea what size washer that is and where to get one?
No you don’t need the washer. That’s strange that it was able to back itself off though. Was the nut on far enough to engage the nylon material? May need a fresh lock nut and a little thread locker.
@@jwsbackyard6413 okay yea It was on far enough I honestly have no idea how it came off I was riding noticed the torque converter was making a weird noise the noise was the nut rolling around in the case I put the same nut back on with out the case and lost the nut during the test ride kinda feel dumb now lol also where can I get the nut from
Are both the TCs shown in this video the same? The one on the pink kart looks like it sits flat horizontal instead of at an angle like the other one. I need one that mounts flat like on the pink kart
What would make one of these grind. I bought an old go kart and ordered a new tc from Amazon and bought a new 212 and put it it all together ran fine for an hour or so but now the driver pulley won't engage and just makes a grinding noise. Any help would be really appreciated.
There is a larger spacer that needs to go behind the backing plate for the driver. If that spacer is missing it will grind on the bolt heads of the main backing plate. If that is on the inner sleeve for the driver could be in backwards. The sleeve has a stepped side that locks into outer cover. If the outer cover isn’t locked into that sleeve it may not engage. If all that is ok I would take the driver apart and make sure the weights and springs look ok.
No problem. I’d check the brass idle sleeve also; they are known to wedge themselves in the driver. I’ve also had a few occasions where the chain would rub the backing plate or the driven side when not spaced well.
Only thing I could think of is the shaft slides on may need lubrication or there is something physically blocking it from opening. Make sure nothing is wedged in around the spring area.
It really depends on gearing, weight of the kart, how much power the engine has etc. On a proper setup I’ve had them last years as long as they stay out of the elements. On my larger heavier karts they may last a few months.
I would bet that the inner collar is in backwards. The collar has a lip with two flat sides that locks into the outer cover. If the outer cover isn’t locked onto that lip it will wobble.
Have quite a few predator 212s that are somewhere between 8 to 10hp. I have a tillotson that’s probably closer to 14 or 15hp. The 30 series have held up to those power ranges but the kart weight is really what has made the difference. On my heavier karts the 30 series slips.
I will be installing a 40 series and that should be good. Btw, are the bracket and jackshaft ( bearings) on the 30 and 40 series the same or is the 40 built stronger?
@@edmagee6818 I’m not sure about the bearings between the 30 and 40 series. The 40 will be able to handle a heavier kart and more power without slipping for sure. It is much heavier than the 30 so should have some more clamping force.
Ok thanks, you confirmed what i thought. I bought a 40 series today from BMI , it's already set up with the reverse spring. This go kart thing is a new experience for me,as I'm used to working on cars and trucks.
If the 40 isn’t strong enough they make a few that have stronger drivers but I’d expect the 40 will be a big improvement. The nice thing about small engine stuff compared to cars/trucks is the cost. The low cost really lets you experiment.
Thank you JW, that pretty much explains and confirms my thoughts that the 30 series I'm working on can't handle the power of the engine combined with the weight of the kart.
Thank you for replying back to me.
just got my first gokart frame and your info is 5 Star brother.
There are a lot of videos out there on tuning GY6 type CVT's but I have not seen many on the Comet torque converters, so this is good information. I don't think most people understand how they work or how dramatically proper tuning will change the performance of their machine.
While I don't agree with you regarding the bushing you throw away, I can see why getting stuck in high gear would suck. I think that the issue is simply that the bushing is stretching itself out over time and fits loose on the shaft and becomes tight on the sleeve. I would replace it not just eliminate it.
Great video! We have several mini bikes and have had a few issues with the torque converters. Awesome info
This is a great video. I just wish I would of came across it when I first knew nothing about these! Great video brutha!
New to mini bikes and karts this was easy to understand.
I’m not saying he is wrong but I’ve seen first hand what he is talking about and yes it’s all true and possible but it happens bc the things get dirty and clogged. What rider cleans the belt debris after each ride. Who knows about breaking in the belt with 2 heat cycles of about 15 min followed by cooling, or that if you lubricate both pulleys and apply a grease to the tension springs and clean the inside of the driver pulley and cause micro abrasions to the part of the driver that grabs the belt for better friction contact when the cvt engages thus less belt slipping. Not to mention your chain and sprocket rusty. A little WD-40 and a wire brush against the chain and ran the engine at a low and safe rpm with bearings g protection you could have that chain sparkling for the video
The point is there is so many factors so unless you consider it all then I’d advise against going against the engineering but if you don’t feel like doing all that maintenance then yeah throw the bronze ring away it’s just there to help the belt slip when idling so that it’s not engaging 24/7
Great vid . I had a keyed sleeve on the driver break into pieces. Since I have the upgraded flywheel I may just put a juggernaut on it and lose the gov.. unless I can buy that sleeve sold separately
Yeah you can get it on eBay for about $10. A saw one listed under ‘hub driver’
Just a note on the comment "you can use a regular washer" on the primary. I had a weak washer that wore out and spun the outside cover off sending the weights flying violently blew up my cover, but luckily missed me. I would not run one of these without that washer, that is just me because I don't want to get hit with flying metal.
Interesting, my oldest converter has only had a washer on it for at least 6 years or so and I haven’t had an issue. I usually get grade 8 washers in bulk though from tractor supply so they are pretty strong. How did the washer cause the failure? Did it collapse or did the bolt just come off?
I made a specialty washed out of a brass bushing, it wore through or the brass was soft enough for the clutch to push it and deform it.
But ether way I would not trust a regular washer, I do run my bike somewhat harder than most. @@jwsbackyard6413
Ah I see. Yeah I would bet the brass was the main factor in its failure.
@@jwsbackyard6413Explain. My parts came flying off not long ago and I was wondering if it’s because the bolt was coming loose and I’m considering loctite or something for it.
Yeah as long as the bolt is in nothing should be able to fly off. Loctite may help but an impact wrench is pretty effective at keeping the bolt on. If you don’t have an impact you can use a rubber strap wrench to hold the driver why you torque the bolt down.
This is a great video. Nicely done.
Appreciate it!
Очень полезное видео. Спасибо ! Кстати с бронзовый втулкой я не смог одеть ремень, он коротковат. Я эту втулку тоже выбросил
I see you lifted the motor up to make it fit.Looks like I'm going to have to do the same thing
Yeah engine risers are almost a necessity in any application where the mounting plate is low and using a torque converter.
@@jwsbackyard6413 Where did you get at?
@@micayiah1get the riser? I made it out of some square tubing from Lowe’s or Home Depot
@jwsbackyard6413 Ok cool man. I really appreciate it!!
@jwsbackyard6413 I have a question for you. So I bought a riser for my son's go-kart. I went out and bought another chain cause, of course, now that the motor is higher, the chain wasn't going to fit. I got 10 feet of chain and just shortened it to where I needed it,but the chain is a little loose, and if I take another link out, it will be too short. So, do I need a different size chain or a different sprocket? The chain keeps popping off.
Subscribed! Outta respect 🫡
Great video! Do you know what the thread pitch/bolt for the 4 bolts that holds the backer plate to the engine. The ones you said don’t over tighten and they will strip
The predator 212 use a 5/16-24. The kits usually come with metric bolts.
Son of a gun I asked a question on another video an I think you answered it with this one I believe I got my lock but too tight but on mine the bolt it self sticks threw 3/4 of a inch it is a used one so idk what cause of this is but I got it with nut all the way snug an nylon stop gone out of it. If I did stop where it was supposed to stop I don’t imagine 1/2 to 3/4 gap from back the nut to the face of the driven pully would be safe huh ?
I would personally just get it snug and use lock tite if the nylon is gone. The gap may not effect it though because a lot of people leave their clutches/sprockets float with some movement side to side to help the pulleys/sprockets stay aligned on their own.
Thanks for making this video! Question: at about video time 2:12 when you pulled the "driver" off, I noticed about a half inch of shaft remaining on the motor driveshaft. It appears the driver is at least an inch deep. It looks like the driver assembly doesn't have much to hang onto. Can you expand on this? The motor I just replaced on my go cart had a 3 inch long shaft. The new predator engine I just put on has a 2.5 inch long shaft. Will I have problems with the 30 series torque converter and shaft length??
You really only need a small amount of engagement for it to work. Most of my converters have around a 1/2 an inch or less of engagement and they all work fine. You just need a longer bolt to secure it. If you have the 30 series with the backing plate you won’t have any issues with the 2.5 shaft on the predator. If it’s a different style 30 series with the driven pulley on a separate mount you may have to play around with engine or pulley position for proper alignment but the driver should still mount on the shaft just fine. Here’s a short where I talk about it.
When You Have A Short Shaft 196cc Diesel/ 30 Series Torque Converter #gokart #torque converter
ua-cam.com/users/shortsrBHK8GUQrwg?feature=share
I put it on and now my go kart moves on its own
When they get warmed up they may cause the kart to lurch some of you aren’t holding it. Idle speed could also be to high.
Thanks for this useful information i appreciate you
im new.
You're a GOAT
I appreciate it!
@@jwsbackyard6413 I installed the entire setup on a 100cc Gas bike using all of the tips in this video man.
I wish I could buy you a pack of Parliament Lights Menthol.
When I was trying to mount this on my things, I was totally hung up on the oil-lite bushing (The ring of death). After watching this, I bought a stainless shaft adapter to fit it to my engine. I figured before I put any oil in it, I would remove the governor and all the associated parts. I got that done then reassembled it. I decided to mount the 100cc on its front against the seat tube with the jug straight up and it looks like a moto Guzi ha-ha.
I couldn't figure out how the thing was going to work when I couldn't get the belt on. That DAMMED OILLITE was jammed in there stopping it from coming together.
I couldn't have done it (as fast) without you.
Will it still creep at idle without the bushing if you have it in neutral? I have a mudhead 208r that has reverse, neutral, drive.
No it should not creep if you have a neutral
Thanks for the vid, what size is the large nut on the rear driven pulley?
I haven’t measured it myself but Comets website says 5/8-16. Most eBay/amazon 30 series copy the Comet so I’d expect they use the same size.
What if there is a key spacer inside the key piece can that be pounded out so there is no interference when you slide the key piece
You mean on the crank? Or what do you mean by key spacer?
@@jwsbackyard6413
I meant the grooved piece you slide on .
Mine had something in it. . but I was able to knock it out .
Great video, I learned a lot from this video.
So what if one of the button inserts has a broken tip on the driven pulley..what happens then?
You can get replacement buttons on the kart sites like go power sports for under $10. You just have to take the cap and spring off then tap in the new button with a little adhesive or locktite on it. Missing buttons can damage the spring.
What size bolts did you use to mount the backing plate to the engine? The ones that came with my kit only goes in 1-2 turns and stops.
For the predator 212 they are 5/16-24
Thank you, great video
Awesome video 💪🏾💯
I would like to put the final drive sprocket outside of the torque converter box for use on a bicycle with 79 cc engine but I can’t figure out how to do it with a pressed into that bearing
Just so I’m understanding what you mean. Are you trying to put the sprocket on the back side of the driven shaft or on the very end of the shaft on the outside of the driven pulley?
Yes I want to put it on a bicycle without having to hang the motor way off to the right side
Gotcha, I’ve seen people push the shaft for the driven pulley through and mount the sprocket on the back side. The shaft has a lip preventing it from sliding one direction that you would have to deal with. Would likely have to change bearing at the front side of the backing plate.
I'm curious if you have an answer or maybe some possible solutions to a problem i'm having. I have a 30 series on a Kenbar cart where the spacing requires a much longer belt and I'm lucky to get 30 minutes before the belt wears down probably 30% of its surface. The only belt i've used so far is a genuine comet 203599, which still seems a tad loose, but the 203598 is too small and doesn't fit. Appreciate it.
I’m not sure if your set up would allow for it but I have slotted my engine mounts so that I can move my engine to get the belt tight. I have also used washers to lift the engine some to get some tension on the chain or belt when I didn’t have room to slide it forward/backwards. Other things to consider with the belt wear is the weight of the cart and gearing. My heavier karts go through belts fast. The 30 series really struggles to clamp the belt on my heavier karts. Also I’ve seen the 30 series struggle with really low gearing.
You don't have another choice if the 598 belt is too tight. The 599 belt is the longest belt for a 30 series. 598 is the second longest. Your spacing pully to pully is just in between these two belt sizes.
Comet has a variety of belts for the 30 series that can be order. They are more expensive than the two common sizes but there are a ton of sizes available.
@@jwsbackyard6413 Yes. There are 12 sizes according to the Comet doc.
for the pulley do you need the washer for the locknut I have seen some videos of other people without it and mine does not have it and my lock nut came flying off the other day If I need it any idea what size washer that is and where to get one?
No you don’t need the washer. That’s strange that it was able to back itself off though. Was the nut on far enough to engage the nylon material? May need a fresh lock nut and a little thread locker.
@@jwsbackyard6413 okay yea It was on far enough I honestly have no idea how it came off I was riding noticed the torque converter was making a weird noise the noise was the nut rolling around in the case I put the same nut back on with out the case and lost the nut during the test ride kinda feel dumb now lol also where can I get the nut from
www.bmikarts.com/Hardware-Kit-for-Jackshaft-for-Replica-TAV2_p_7240.html
@@jwsbackyard6413 thank you so much I really appreciate it your the best!
@@LIMITL5SS no problem
Are both the TCs shown in this video the same? The one on the pink kart looks like it sits flat horizontal instead of at an angle like the other one. I need one that mounts flat like on the pink kart
Yes they are both the same. You can mount the torque converter in any orientation and it will work the same.
What would make one of these grind. I bought an old go kart and ordered a new tc from Amazon and bought a new 212 and put it it all together ran fine for an hour or so but now the driver pulley won't engage and just makes a grinding noise. Any help would be really appreciated.
There is a larger spacer that needs to go behind the backing plate for the driver. If that spacer is missing it will grind on the bolt heads of the main backing plate. If that is on the inner sleeve for the driver could be in backwards. The sleeve has a stepped side that locks into outer cover. If the outer cover isn’t locked into that sleeve it may not engage. If all that is ok I would take the driver apart and make sure the weights and springs look ok.
@jwsbackyard6413 ok thank you and yeah all that looks good. I'll have too take it apart and see what they look like. Thank you for your response.
No problem. I’d check the brass idle sleeve also; they are known to wedge themselves in the driver. I’ve also had a few occasions where the chain would rub the backing plate or the driven side when not spaced well.
I can't get the torque converter to open on mine to let the belt in
On the driver(mounted to the crank shaft) or the driven side(with the large red spring)?
My pulley on the rear don’t expand? Brand new one ?
Only thing I could think of is the shaft slides on may need lubrication or there is something physically blocking it from opening. Make sure nothing is wedged in around the spring area.
Nice video thanks
Approximately how long should a belt last?
It really depends on gearing, weight of the kart, how much power the engine has etc. On a proper setup I’ve had them last years as long as they stay out of the elements. On my larger heavier karts they may last a few months.
My front clutch is wobbling while it moves how do I fix that
I would bet that the inner collar is in backwards. The collar has a lip with two flat sides that locks into the outer cover. If the outer cover isn’t locked onto that lip it will wobble.
Would I be able too do the same with a mini bike?
Yeah it would work the same way
What is the HP of your go-kart engines?
I have a Duramax 440cc 18hp.
Have quite a few predator 212s that are somewhere between 8 to 10hp. I have a tillotson that’s probably closer to 14 or 15hp. The 30 series have held up to those power ranges but the kart weight is really what has made the difference. On my heavier karts the 30 series slips.
I will be installing a 40 series and that should be good. Btw, are the bracket and jackshaft ( bearings) on the 30 and 40 series the same or is the 40 built stronger?
@@edmagee6818 I’m not sure about the bearings between the 30 and 40 series. The 40 will be able to handle a heavier kart and more power without slipping for sure. It is much heavier than the 30 so should have some more clamping force.
Ok thanks, you confirmed what i thought. I bought a 40 series today from BMI , it's already set up with the reverse spring.
This go kart thing is a new experience for me,as I'm used to working on cars and trucks.
If the 40 isn’t strong enough they make a few that have stronger drivers but I’d expect the 40 will be a big improvement. The nice thing about small engine stuff compared to cars/trucks is the cost. The low cost really lets you experiment.
What's the length of that engine shaft?
61.7mm or just under 2.5 inches
@@jwsbackyard6413Hey jw u got an email I can message you at? I would greatly appreciate it
Can you swap out the gear sprocket on the driven pulley side for more top end speed ?
Yes, you would just need a larger sprocket(one with more teeth). You would sacrifice some torque though.
change red spring