I can see both sides of the pacing/clear speeds issue. PoE is pretty much the only ARPG I still play. I'm a casual player who hops into most leagues, and I play until I get bored. Which is generally between 85-90 when I'm either clearing full screens, or getting (seemingly) randomly one shot. But I definitely rush through the campaign to get to maps, because it's pretty fun for a while, and I like interacting with the league mechanic. In PoE 2, the most fun I had by far was act 1. And then I felt like I was having a little less fun each act I cleared, and the further I got in the game. I understand the argument of PoE 1 being the best ARPG, and the PoE 2 end game feeling like PoE 1 is a good, logical step. But to me, my favorite ARPG isn't PoE, it's PoE 2. I hope once they finish the campaign and flesh out the endgame, it remains the feel of PoE 2. I know the blasters might not like it, but they still have PoE 1 to play if they like that. There really isn't a game that feels like PoE 2 from start to finish, and to me that's a bummer.
DM is such a great guy and equally as good of a CC. Been a fan for over a year now and I don't think i've ever seen a bad take out of him. Deserves all the success he has had lately. Also a great interview allowing him to talk because DM can ramble haha.
It's a bit funny, I got to maps with a warrior without ES using Giant's Blood and dual 2-hand maces and your experience is what I found. I put lots of points into stun (no defense nodes really) and use the basic attack, with some armor breaking, and I basically survive using dodge roll like I'm playing a Souls game. It's engaging play, but not fast at all. Might try using Rage later, once I get tired of this fire sorcerer. Let me know if there are other trash classes, I seem to like those.
@@rurikhan no no my dude i wasn't making fun of you or your take lol, that was my own take. they killed my man with a cloud of butterflies and I almost died of cringe lol. sorry it came off that way
What a cool podcast, i also had no idea maps are shared. Just started my 2nd character, its interesting to be a able to plan a map clearer and a boss killer
I think the End Game angle that DM is coming from makes sense, but you also have to consider just how much grinding there is at End Game. I think you COULD keep the relative speed of the campaign, but if you go that route you need the progression to be SIGNIFICANTLY faster. It takes thousands of maps to accomplish things. That's untenable at Campaign Speed. If GGG wants Campaign Speed, you'd need to bring those thousands of maps down to hundreds or dozens. Personally, I think that's a better system and one I'm more interested in, but I'm not sure PoE Veterans or even GGG wants to go that route. But as it stands currently, he's right in that you NEED that pacing because the grind to get anywhere or accomplish anything demands that pace. If you need to run several thousand maps to accomplish The Goal, then you can't have those maps taking half an hour. If you make maps that take half an hour, then the target of "how many maps to accomplish X" (and the power levels) needs to change radically to make it feasible. Since the whole End Game seems kind of jury rigged together atm, it's hard to say what the goal is from the GGG side of things. It seems like they're not fans of End Game Is PoE1, but at the same time they've mechanically made it basically a requirement with how the systems are set up.
There are issues in POE2 because its still a work in progress early access. People seem to deny POE2 is less than perfect and so many are scared to even criticize it, im glad some people have the honest balls to talk about its flaws as we want it to improve not sugarcoat the game is the best at early launch. as long as we give constructive critisism GGG will keep improving it.
DM is absolutely right about stat reductions in the tree. Even when they are a net positive in power, it just feels bad to “lose something” after spending a skill point. Don’t get me started on all the downsides on uniques…
Years ago, I had the most severe low back pain (thankfully transient)which started simply while I was brushing my teeth. To this day, my wife will still occasionally mention… “Do you remember that time you threw your back out while brushing your teeth?” Yes, yes I do 🤦♂️
*first off - I LIKE the idea of "Not all Bosses made to be beaten,, no matter how geared you are" now I was introduced to DM with Diablo Immortal - great game IMO i played it since release untill recently PoE2 now my full time Diablo Immortal > Diablo 4 over 3years of lifespan Diablo Immortal grew to be a awesome "MOBILE" game with days of content modes to blast, ESPECIALLY the "social aspect" of the game - one of the greatest communities ive been in Diablo since D2jsp trade forum DM great content creator Very on-point take on PoE1 experience - takes a tour guide & a 6month collage course to even start pplaying game, nevermind "Enjoying" POE2 however - MASTERPIECE
People dont wan't to delete entire maps of mobs in a minute. Or have the mobs instantly delete you. The end-game scaling argument here isnt very strong. Act 1 and 2 of the game feels good. Because you actually engage with the game mechanics. You dont instantly kill everything. Or die from one-shots. If players are wiping maps and one/two shotting end-game bosses, then, yes, the game needs adjustments. Most players dont want Vampire Survivors. This wasnt what was advertised by the developers when they wanted a more methodical, measured game.
@@brianaiken3917 It's the opposite of a "skill-issue". It requires little mechanical skill to pilot a character through end-game mobs and press one or two buttons. It's boring. It actually puts me to sleep. I'm sure it's the same way for many others.
@@grantlawrence4600 this is why those are "END-GAME" mobs - it is the end of your game and you should be powerful at that point thus you customize your character during the campaign - to get to that stage of being extremely powerful. End-game is the check if you created your char correctly - I dont understand why we should get punished with slow peace for making correct skills/tree decisions and gear customizations
@@FrAnAsSsS You're not playing the game and interacting with the mechanics at that point. You're running around pressing one or two buttons and exploding everything. Which puts people to sleep...... Additionally, you get to that point FAR too quickly. Too many builds allow you to do that even as you are completing the Cruel campaign.
Monk is right there at the cross section between ES and evasion. People will often grab some nodes from the starting monk area on their way to the blue zone
Also, adding a cursor to the right analog for when you're turning your character to face another direction. Maybe it would go out from the character, and the character would always face the cursor, and you'd be able to attack that location with a ability making charge hit his hammer on the location. Or hammer from gods from distance. It would also fix leap for controller
The Shockwave Toem's attack causes any Jagged Ground it touches to erupt, dealing damage to enemies. Earthquake creates jagged ground. Jagged Ground also slows enemies quite well with the right passives. That's why it pairs well. The usefulness is in the Jagged Ground, not the eruption at the end.
@@rurikhan yeah I got this vibe. You'd be like "hey that game you like is trash bro, it's so shit,I'm glad you don't play that hot trash." And DM would just sit there awkwardly and try to move on
Ive always got the vibe that Ruri is very passionate about playing GREAT games with no microtransactions, and he forgot he was talking to DARTH microtransactions. Hahaha. Jokes aside, props to DM for being very professional. I mean, we all have our biases, and i get where Ruri is coming from. Gacha, or mobile games in general have been influencing triple A gaming in a very negative direction for awhile, whereas DM started WITH these mobile gachas. Interesting to see these two sit down and have a wonderful discussion about an amazing game.
Here’s the thing, which I think is lost on the modern audience Being negative doesn’t make him wrong and being positive doesn’t make DM right It’s called a civilised discussion with people with differing opinions Look at this, you’re being negative to support DM and I’m being positive to support Ruri, see how easy it is to switch the vibe
Starting out with Diablo Immortal might not have been ideal, but revealing your positions on things isn't a bad way to start a long conversation as well.
I ran a tier 14 map last night and got 8 tier 15 maps inside. You NEED to make maps 6 mod rares (use alc+ 2 exalts or regal a 2 mod blue and 3 exalts, then vaal orb them) you will get F-tons of maps doing that and a lot more exalts to make up for the ones you spend.
Im using earthquake for my warrior, it is pretty good and not as slow as you think, you just hit the ground, move forward snd hit, repeat, enemies will just die behind me. The mace skills is quite sayisfying too when hit the enemy
I dunno what DM was doing to get sunder to 3.5 sec cast, i think its like 2,4 sec base, and i managed to get it down to 1.8 sec cast which felt pretty smooth. Dont take the nodes with reductions to attack speed. Get the nodes that give you attack speed instead.
I'm playing warrior with bonebreaker leveling build, haven't transition to other endgame build and I can screen clear T15 map with bonebreaker easily, it is actually very satisfying to see the whole screen explode with one click. The problem with warrior is definitely mobility and survivability.
@@minerg1 kripparian tip that fixed my Titan: stack str, as you do. Use titans grip with 2h + Shield (armor+ES base), might need 30-35% reduced attribute req. on the weapon to be able to use it since titans grip tripple attribute reqs on weapons. Use Ghostwrithe unique chest that converts half your HP into ES. Then you path up towards witch start area and get the ES recharge and max ES etc. Then you have a node on the NW of the tree thats called Adamant Recovery, which gives your increases and reductions to armor to also to apply to your ES recharge rate at 40% of their value. You also pick up some block nodes and block applies to damage done etc. In the same area. This means you run around with 7-9k ES, 1500-2000hp, 75% block chance, and when ever you take a big hit, your passive block at 75% happens so often that you block 2-3 attacks in a row and you start to recharge 2000-2500 ES per second. And thanks to ghostwrithe and the shield, you dont get a big penalty to your movement speed like you do with pure armor bases. It feels really smooth with stampede for clearing. I use sunder for rares and sunder and hammer of the gods for bosses. I have a weapon swap for HotG with double 2H maces for big damage. Really fun build.
Bro, there is no skill in the game called “bone breaker”. If you were T15 you would have the terminology down. Seems like a trend to pretend to be good at video games
@@nicholaspontillo5554 it is Boneshatter my bad, but trust me follow the Boneshatter Titan Leveling guide on maxroll with the Cultist Greathammer, you can screen clear no problem
As a monk main, I also really wish that there was an alternative to lightning and frost damage, I just want a good old fashion quarterstaff and punch martial artist build :( give me lee sin not aang.
I'm playing essentially a rolling slam, cancel boneshatter build with max block turtle charm with giants blood and hammer of the gods to kill hard rares and bosses. Supplimenting with shield charge and the war cry that explodes corpses I'm now t18 maps . Nah its fun. Maybe it's titan that's the problem, I don't know only issue I have is armor and life is under tuned. Rujikhan, the blood magic passive fixed mana problems outright I don't even notice the life cost at 3k health. I think for pure armor builds buffing life you get from strength is a viable solution. Problem with warrior it gets pushed around too much as well. So pure armor should have inherent stun resistence and grounding to compensate for the move penalty
When you discuss the cost of outlier builds compared to their inclusion in the game, I’m curious about your thoughts on a different approach. Instead of nerfing or buffing these builds, we could introduce a survivability tax. For instance, if an item or skill provides significant power, it would come at a significant cost in terms of survivability. This would encourage players to gamble or go for other classes that are more balanced, such as a tank instead of a glass cannon. We know that a glass cannon will not survive as much as tanks and we’re fine with it. I’ve been playing some RPG, and I find it enjoyable to have multiple viable builds to progress through the game without being restricted to a single one. However, I also appreciate the challenge of using certain builds to overcome difficult areas that hinder my enjoyment. Personally, I’m open to trading off survivability for power and vice versa. If a skill can one-shot a boss, it should be challenging to perform, not just acquire. Hard to get applies to players who have more time to invest in the game, while hard to perform applies to anyone who enjoys the rewards of learning the game, regardless of time spent or the use of trade items.
Re: Speed of endgame - While I do agree that One shotting bosses, or clearing like HoI + HoT, etc might not appeal to some. I think Ruri didn't account the investment that you need to be able to reach those numbers. We can say Spark Archmage and Invoker is an outlier and needs to be toned down a little bit, since the investment : DPS ratio favors the player more. It doesn't speak well with other builds. Most one shot builds I have seen cost like 100 divs or more (again there will be outliers but you know what I mean).
I am one of those anomaly gamers that actually play ARPGs for the story. Like I didn't have issues with D3 or D4 because I actually liked the story. Never played PoE 1 but I gotta say the story on PoE 2 did drew me in, I like it, I like the cliffhanger we are in, missing the acts 4 5 and 6, which also presents an issue with me now in the Endgame because I see no reason to do it honestly. That being said, thanks DM for saving me money by saying the story in the expansion of D4 sucks, I have seen tons of your content and your tastes in game seem to align with mines and Ruris as we can see
19:03 path of exile 1 has the chores list in the leagues (season) and you slowly earn cosmetics for doing it (like craft with x curency , do x number of vendor recipes , do this event x number of time etc.) i can imagine we will have something like this in poe2 eventuali (it gets really hard to do like half way throu the list if you are casual like me lol)
I think as long as Rarity is in the game, no matter how they change it it will be meta and Trade will be inflated and it will drive players away. Players will chase that Stat however they can. It should be removed so everyone is on the same level.
I only hope they don't nerf the "fun" out of the heralds. I have experimented with a half dozen builds and keep coming back to it because my monkey brain really enjoys flicker striking through an entire map watching screens pop.
If you can't screen clear then maps need to change. Cause that gameplay is 10x better than the screen clear slop. It also lets them tune defenses and challenge in more interesting ways that gimmick on death effects and hard to see ground effects
Warrior is so much fun, the combat is deliberate and methodical. Very skill based. All these blasters are hating warrior because they actually have to pay attention. If they can’t cannibalize the content with one button then they call it dogshit. Their whole approach to video games is dog shit. D4 exists if you don’t want to pay attentiom
The problem with nerfing anything right now other than the crazy top builds and no monk and the bell are not crazy. The mobs and bosses need to be tuned down and balanced which they are already starting to do. Because right now when half the mobs zoom around the map at 100 mph and a lot of white mobs and bosses just do way way was to much damage with certain skills it's hard to balance correctly. After a couple more patches of this which we are getting the first one this week it will be allot better to balance the player and classes.
I'm straight up taking a break from the game, just because I can't stand to play with the crossbow jam bug anymore. Maybe I'll try monk by the time they fix it.
DM's point about the endgame is a false dichotomy. He is thinking of the campaign pacing without adjusting the endgame to meet that pacing. Meaning it isn't Maps, a shallow grind that is all about quantity over quality. If endgame was more about quality content.
1:28:10 your terms are acceptable. make bosses keep the hp, make mobs have higher HP and lower the damage of mobs and bosses at higher levels. It could be tuned to the point where you do a bit more damage and clear faster the better gear that you get but not to the point where a boss fight takes less than 1 minute. Think about it, you already have that during the campaign and few first tiers of maps, they just need to keep the scaling from there under control so it stays at the same level as before. But instead, mobs don't have that much more HP, but they have shit ton of damage instead. It's 100% a design decision and the wrong decision for sure.
When I look at classes in POE or POE2, I don't associate skills and certain defense mechanic directly to a class. I was playing deadeye with molten blast and it worked fine (ofc it sucks). Warriors is not bad, in fact i think Titan is a T0 class with Hulking Form alone. You could do many crazy things that other classes usually couldn't do since there are many small passive nodes effect that are very powerful and unique. A 50% boost on those node can really make some huge difference. But mace skills, life and armour are basically trash at this point. This is what really tanked the warrior experience. I felt like most people find more success playing warriror if they find other ways around without using maces and life/armour, and I think that's the beauty of POE2. Although, I would like to see some serious changes on mace skills and life/armour to improve the experience, so that one day, I could finally build a good strength based, melee gemling legionaire, with two 2-handed mace and smashing monsters, instead of being smashed.
The absolute number one issue with Path of Exile 2 is people killing bosses before the mechanics even happen. It is way more of a big problem than people seem to be realizing. Just about everybody that plays the game, and particularly wants to play this game over Path of Exile 1, or never even tried Path of Exile one because they don't like super zoomy 5000 mile an hour hyper Crazy Fast instant death characters, we are here because this game actually has gameplay and is not a one button game. The people that are figuring out how to kill bosses before even one mechanic happens is basically like alpha\beta testing and I get it, and it's a good thing if the developers are quickly responding and shutting that garbage down. GGG doesn't seem to be wanting to fix it, or even saying a word about the biggest problem with the game¡!!!!!!!!!!! I think they need to be very vocal and clear with the community if that shit is going to get fucking fixed or if that is going to be the way the game is! If dodging and blocking and actual gameplay completely disappears at the end and it becomes just pressing one button then I think everybody would want to quit the game right now and they need to be fucking honest about it. The developer needs to realize that at least half the player base if they find out this is a one button game in the end and all the actual fund mechanics and combat completely disappeared they will all quit right now and don't want their time wasted.
26:54 one thing that made ds the "hardest game ever". is that it was in the ps3 era most rpgs very actiony and also fs preformance uptill bloodborne was the one non a or s tier stat as a studio. imo ur first one will be the hardest. the main ones imo ds3 sekiro are pretty strict in making u learn the gameplay style.so if its ur first game outside of AAA 3rd person action game it makes sense why people say its the hardest game ever in comparison to the broad appeal games theyre accustomed to. i even see why people struggle with elden ring if its thier first because while combat easier early game leveling easier. u dont get the straight forward path that the others have which imo help make people feel like while it is challenging at least ur making progress and can see ur self eventually getting gud
Funny DM saying about POE 1 "its a game that u will enjoy and not enjoy right away" Thats how i feel about POE 2. very slow weak no agency to progress power level. I hope POE 2 gets better
I don't think high speed map clearing automatically improves the rate at which you can improve your character. At the end of the day, the odds of a good drop you want to use on your character in PoE2 are abysmal. And 2x efffectively 0 is still effectively 0. Plus GGG can (and should) up the rate at which useful loot drops. They have roughly a set rate of progress they want us to attain as well, so if we all run builds that exceed that, that means they'll lower the rates, and that means anyone not running a zoomer build now is below the intended medium. And on the trade side, the faster people clear maps, the faster they get currency. The more currency people have, the more currency items cost. At the end of the day, if something is overperforming sufficiently, it should be nerfed. And, of course, to maintain consumer trust, it is equally important that things that underperform sufficiently be buffed. So, basically, the game can have slower paced on maps, with fewer, but stronger/more-rewarding mobs, and progress would be the same. And it would probably be overall beneficial, if it is the extreme top end that gets reigned in. That means more build variety is considered viable, and a casual will likely have performance closer to a no-life zoomer (although will still likely be quite outclassed, hehe). And that Arbitar 6m hp argument falls flat, because GGG sets that mob's hp. If they set it lower, you don't need to do that much. Economic value is determined by the players. If something is OP or used to make things OP, its value will increase. So, really, if something is overly expensive, that's a good sign that thing needs to be nerfed, unless it is extremely, extremely rare. And ultimately, the game has a lackluster loot drop system, so relies on trade to such a degree that they have enough demand for leagues that have no trade. So, if those expensive builds outperform the regular builds, you create a situation where the rich get richer, which should not be desirable. Short of it, if something is overly expensive due to how it performs, it should be nerfed. And on rarity find, another bad take. He thinks rarity find might be a good thing, because drop rates are bad, because crafting is overly random. But that's like the reliance on trade... it doesn't address the core underlying issue(s), but instead, relies on an added layer to cover up GGG's poor ability to balance. And, like in this with crafting, it creates new problems, where there's no point to crafting, when you can just trade instead. So what's the point to magic find impacting currencies to help crafting when we'll just use that currency to bypass crafting? Fix the underlying issues, the poor drop rates, the overly RNG crafting, the inability to get the drops you want/need due to too much RNG (and that's an issue now, before we get 6 more classes cluttering things up with even more types of loot). For more hp per point of strength, that also leads to another issue, and that's the Gemling merc. They already get more hp than the warriors, and if you increase the hp from strength, that advantage will only grow. They also need to improve 1h maces. You mention how your damage feels bad, and, well that's the reason why pretty much all warriors get Giant's Blood, despite its 3x str requirement. 1H maces need a boost, or else maces need to be reworked to be a mix of weapon damage and some innate skill damage, rather than them being all based on the weapon's, typically.
Are there plans of changing the story? I am a lightning monk lvl 46 and can't beat the second ascendancy challenge. I got into the pt2 story through the portal and can't beat the first boss. I will not follow a guide.
19:32 I think the actual problem with Diablo 4 rn is Blizzard and the state it’s actually in. Especially after Microsoft bought it, it’s just not, what it used to be, even if this trend started way before. I‘ve had technical issues as well, where I accidentally clicked on the character boost and there’s simply no way to undo that. But it’s account wide, so my first player experience is completely ruined. There’s no way to fix this. That’s where moved over to PoE2 and have been having a blast with it since then. Hearing that there are even worst problems in the game, where you can actually loose your season pass, makes me worry even more about the current state of that company! That’s where they literally loose customers for good reason. If they’re not able to fix those things really quickly, people won’t give them any more money. At least I won’t. So this has to be fixed, seriously.
That Phrase your looking for DM is "Cookie Cutter" Classes... IT IS A FACT 💯!! Whole Hartley a BLIZZARD THING.. they always do this.. They have always Dumed Downed there games as time goes on... 🙄 Remember when the Bear Tank class in Wow that had like 5 heal moves out of the 10 they left us with when panda hit... they literally NUKED talent trees... Literally TOOK IT OUT OF THE GAME... 10 million of us got fkd.. and abunch of YALL went back for seconds.... and stayed... and that is what it is... D6D4... THE DAY DIABLO DIED!!!
I played immortal on launch too and I actually thought some of the dungeons were pretty cool. That being said I only played them once so I can’t comment on the replay ability of them.
I 100% agree with dm. Diablo immortals bones are amazing. The timed world bosses. The pvp. Clan war. The tree bosses. All dope af. If they didnt have p2w it would 100% be better than d4. Its sad cus its actually a good game at its core. Ruined by greed
Two genuine people, love to see this collab
Omg!!! Love DM. He is such a down to earth person with a big heart.
He looks ill
This wasn't expected but I'm loving it!
I love how genuine these guys are. Even though they enjoy very different games they can talk about their differences and get along
True gamers be True gamers bro.
I didn’t expect this to ever be in my feed! But I’m happy to see it.
Oh I'm hyped for this. Love watching both Rui and DM :P
" You gotta praise Atziri! Because what's better than two boo-..."
Homie interrupted his own intrusive thought 😂
I can see both sides of the pacing/clear speeds issue. PoE is pretty much the only ARPG I still play. I'm a casual player who hops into most leagues, and I play until I get bored. Which is generally between 85-90 when I'm either clearing full screens, or getting (seemingly) randomly one shot. But I definitely rush through the campaign to get to maps, because it's pretty fun for a while, and I like interacting with the league mechanic.
In PoE 2, the most fun I had by far was act 1. And then I felt like I was having a little less fun each act I cleared, and the further I got in the game. I understand the argument of PoE 1 being the best ARPG, and the PoE 2 end game feeling like PoE 1 is a good, logical step. But to me, my favorite ARPG isn't PoE, it's PoE 2.
I hope once they finish the campaign and flesh out the endgame, it remains the feel of PoE 2. I know the blasters might not like it, but they still have PoE 1 to play if they like that. There really isn't a game that feels like PoE 2 from start to finish, and to me that's a bummer.
DM is such a great guy and equally as good of a CC. Been a fan for over a year now and I don't think i've ever seen a bad take out of him. Deserves all the success he has had lately.
Also a great interview allowing him to talk because DM can ramble haha.
Yeah… really chill dude and also smart.
It was great to see you two together. A nice conversation about the game!
It's a bit funny, I got to maps with a warrior without ES using Giant's Blood and dual 2-hand maces and your experience is what I found. I put lots of points into stun (no defense nodes really) and use the basic attack, with some armor breaking, and I basically survive using dodge roll like I'm playing a Souls game. It's engaging play, but not fast at all. Might try using Rage later, once I get tired of this fire sorcerer. Let me know if there are other trash classes, I seem to like those.
Damn this is going to be a good one
Aye Grim Dawn Shoutout! ✊
"What didnt you like about the story in diablo 3?"
THEY KILLED MY BOI CAIN WITH A GOT DANG BUTTERFLY ATTACK
Completely ignoring the point I made about soulstones.
@@rurikhan no no my dude i wasn't making fun of you or your take lol, that was my own take. they killed my man with a cloud of butterflies and I almost died of cringe lol. sorry it came off that way
Lol, fair point, my bad.
@rurikhan no worries my man i realized how it could be taken that way as soon as i looked back at it
What a cool podcast, i also had no idea maps are shared. Just started my 2nd character, its interesting to be a able to plan a map clearer and a boss killer
Felt some back and forth at the beginning that made me a little uncomfortable lol. But they both eased into a great convo. Loved it. Great job guys
This was a highly needed collab....love to see it!!!...WE NEED MORE OF THIS lol
Love how the next video in queue after this one for me was DM's talk with Talkative Tri titled "Warrior isn't THAT bad"
Soundscape in the ogham farm was dope too. Sounded like you were in a horror movie.
Still say rarity should only be available in ssf and hcssf
Thank you for being passionate and intelligent people, both willing to share your interest in ARPG with the world
is there really crafting in PoE2 though?
They call it crafting in the same way that a slot machine is a game.
This episode is great! Love the educated exchange of ideas and I already hope to see DM on again!
I say this one more time: Act1 manor and last boss is awesome. The atmosphere, music and the boss fight is very good!
PoE2 Build progression summed up: use energy shield, switch to heralds and a quarterstaff or bow, or equip a wand and slot spark. GG you win!
the " jaming " of crosbows is you canceling reload with dodge roll and then having to start the reload again, i noticed that as well on my char.
i was your 1k like. just found the channel! instant sub
Two of my favorite creators! Excited to jump into this!
I think the End Game angle that DM is coming from makes sense, but you also have to consider just how much grinding there is at End Game.
I think you COULD keep the relative speed of the campaign, but if you go that route you need the progression to be SIGNIFICANTLY faster.
It takes thousands of maps to accomplish things. That's untenable at Campaign Speed. If GGG wants Campaign Speed, you'd need to bring those thousands of maps down to hundreds or dozens.
Personally, I think that's a better system and one I'm more interested in, but I'm not sure PoE Veterans or even GGG wants to go that route. But as it stands currently, he's right in that you NEED that pacing because the grind to get anywhere or accomplish anything demands that pace. If you need to run several thousand maps to accomplish The Goal, then you can't have those maps taking half an hour. If you make maps that take half an hour, then the target of "how many maps to accomplish X" (and the power levels) needs to change radically to make it feasible.
Since the whole End Game seems kind of jury rigged together atm, it's hard to say what the goal is from the GGG side of things. It seems like they're not fans of End Game Is PoE1, but at the same time they've mechanically made it basically a requirement with how the systems are set up.
There are issues in POE2 because its still a work in progress early access. People seem to deny POE2 is less than perfect and so many are scared to even criticize it, im glad some people have the honest balls to talk about its flaws as we want it to improve not sugarcoat the game is the best at early launch. as long as we give constructive critisism GGG will keep improving it.
@calumho6253 constructive criticism is the point, thanks dude.
Path of Exile 2 is so good that it unites players across the spectrum
DM is absolutely right about stat reductions in the tree. Even when they are a net positive in power, it just feels bad to “lose something” after spending a skill point.
Don’t get me started on all the downsides on uniques…
Years ago, I had the most severe low back pain (thankfully transient)which started simply while I was brushing my teeth. To this day, my wife will still occasionally mention… “Do you remember that time you threw your back out while brushing your teeth?” Yes, yes I do 🤦♂️
*first off - I LIKE the idea of "Not all Bosses made to be beaten,, no matter how geared you are"
now
I was introduced to DM with Diablo Immortal - great game IMO i played it since release untill recently PoE2 now my full time
Diablo Immortal > Diablo 4
over 3years of lifespan Diablo Immortal grew to be a awesome "MOBILE" game with days of content modes to blast,
ESPECIALLY the "social aspect" of the game - one of the greatest communities ive been in Diablo since D2jsp trade forum
DM great content creator
Very on-point take on PoE1 experience - takes a tour guide & a 6month collage course to even start pplaying game, nevermind "Enjoying"
POE2 however - MASTERPIECE
Ruri saying that The Count calling his woman a whore being immersive is hilarious
People dont wan't to delete entire maps of mobs in a minute. Or have the mobs instantly delete you. The end-game scaling argument here isnt very strong.
Act 1 and 2 of the game feels good. Because you actually engage with the game mechanics. You dont instantly kill everything. Or die from one-shots.
If players are wiping maps and one/two shotting end-game bosses, then, yes, the game needs adjustments. Most players dont want Vampire Survivors.
This wasnt what was advertised by the developers when they wanted a more methodical, measured game.
@@grantlawrence4600 This is exactly how I feel.
skill issue
@@brianaiken3917 It's the opposite of a "skill-issue". It requires little mechanical skill to pilot a character through end-game mobs and press one or two buttons. It's boring. It actually puts me to sleep. I'm sure it's the same way for many others.
@@grantlawrence4600 this is why those are "END-GAME" mobs - it is the end of your game and you should be powerful at that point thus you customize your character during the campaign - to get to that stage of being extremely powerful. End-game is the check if you created your char correctly - I dont understand why we should get punished with slow peace for making correct skills/tree decisions and gear customizations
@@FrAnAsSsS You're not playing the game and interacting with the mechanics at that point. You're running around pressing one or two buttons and exploding everything. Which puts people to sleep......
Additionally, you get to that point FAR too quickly. Too many builds allow you to do that even as you are completing the Cruel campaign.
Dm ask them when the loot filter is coming for consoles plzz
Monk is right there at the cross section between ES and evasion. People will often grab some nodes from the starting monk area on their way to the blue zone
Thanks for this talk! :)
I hope, the both of you keep an eye on Titan Quest 2.
Also, adding a cursor to the right analog for when you're turning your character to face another direction. Maybe it would go out from the character, and the character would always face the cursor, and you'd be able to attack that location with a ability making charge hit his hammer on the location. Or hammer from gods from distance. It would also fix leap for controller
Great conversation between you two!
The Shockwave Toem's attack causes any Jagged Ground it touches to erupt, dealing damage to enemies. Earthquake creates jagged ground. Jagged Ground also slows enemies quite well with the right passives. That's why it pairs well. The usefulness is in the Jagged Ground, not the eruption at the end.
Appreciate you for this! Love DMT!
I really like DM, he's very articulate.
As a 46 year old Granny....i know these "get old stretches" 😂😂 And OMG i feel them so much with Warrior....😂
Based DM take on the end game POE1 comparison, someone finally said it.
DM is a genuinely funny person this was such a great watch lol
I'm playing Monk as a melee. Main skill is ice strike with the heralds and bell of course. But ice strike is my main damage.
That was an awesome and wholesome podcast!
Is it just me, or does it seem like Ruri is trying to bring DM with him on a negative spiral, and DM is just not giving him what he wants?
Why?
@@rurikhan yeah I got this vibe. You'd be like "hey that game you like is trash bro, it's so shit,I'm glad you don't play that hot trash." And DM would just sit there awkwardly and try to move on
Ive always got the vibe that Ruri is very passionate about playing GREAT games with no microtransactions, and he forgot he was talking to DARTH microtransactions. Hahaha.
Jokes aside, props to DM for being very professional.
I mean, we all have our biases, and i get where Ruri is coming from. Gacha, or mobile games in general have been influencing triple A gaming in a very negative direction for awhile, whereas DM started WITH these mobile gachas. Interesting to see these two sit down and have a wonderful discussion about an amazing game.
Here’s the thing, which I think is lost on the modern audience
Being negative doesn’t make him wrong and being positive doesn’t make DM right
It’s called a civilised discussion with people with differing opinions
Look at this, you’re being negative to support DM and I’m being positive to support Ruri, see how easy it is to switch the vibe
Starting out with Diablo Immortal might not have been ideal, but revealing your positions on things isn't a bad way to start a long conversation as well.
I absolutely love warrior and merc. The only issue is that maps and all the other characters exist.
DM talking about warrior is so funny and accurate hahahahaha
I ran a tier 14 map last night and got 8 tier 15 maps inside. You NEED to make maps 6 mod rares (use alc+ 2 exalts or regal a 2 mod blue and 3 exalts, then vaal orb them) you will get F-tons of maps doing that and a lot more exalts to make up for the ones you spend.
Im using earthquake for my warrior, it is pretty good and not as slow as you think, you just hit the ground, move forward snd hit, repeat, enemies will just die behind me. The mace skills is quite sayisfying too when hit the enemy
2 of my fav creators. Amazing
So would armor be more viable if they changed the nodes from pure armor to armor\health (plus some actual tweaking to the armor)?
I dunno what DM was doing to get sunder to 3.5 sec cast, i think its like 2,4 sec base, and i managed to get it down to 1.8 sec cast which felt pretty smooth.
Dont take the nodes with reductions to attack speed. Get the nodes that give you attack speed instead.
Warrior is rough but I still enjoy it more than the other classes
I'm playing warrior with bonebreaker leveling build, haven't transition to other endgame build and I can screen clear T15 map with bonebreaker easily, it is actually very satisfying to see the whole screen explode with one click. The problem with warrior is definitely mobility and survivability.
@@minerg1 kripparian tip that fixed my Titan: stack str, as you do. Use titans grip with 2h + Shield (armor+ES base), might need 30-35% reduced attribute req. on the weapon to be able to use it since titans grip tripple attribute reqs on weapons. Use Ghostwrithe unique chest that converts half your HP into ES. Then you path up towards witch start area and get the ES recharge and max ES etc.
Then you have a node on the NW of the tree thats called Adamant Recovery, which gives your increases and reductions to armor to also to apply to your ES recharge rate at 40% of their value. You also pick up some block nodes and block applies to damage done etc. In the same area. This means you run around with 7-9k ES, 1500-2000hp, 75% block chance, and when ever you take a big hit, your passive block at 75% happens so often that you block 2-3 attacks in a row and you start to recharge 2000-2500 ES per second. And thanks to ghostwrithe and the shield, you dont get a big penalty to your movement speed like you do with pure armor bases.
It feels really smooth with stampede for clearing. I use sunder for rares and sunder and hammer of the gods for bosses. I have a weapon swap for HotG with double 2H maces for big damage.
Really fun build.
Bro, there is no skill in the game called “bone breaker”. If you were T15 you would have the terminology down. Seems like a trend to pretend to be good at video games
@@nicholaspontillo5554 it is Boneshatter my bad, but trust me follow the Boneshatter Titan Leveling guide on maxroll with the Cultist Greathammer, you can screen clear no problem
As a monk main, I also really wish that there was an alternative to lightning and frost damage, I just want a good old fashion quarterstaff and punch martial artist build :( give me lee sin not aang.
Teo of my favorite streamers who have got a lot of new traction
You can get a full fire build, less to no investment in burning and use the legendary that change all fire to cold
I'm playing essentially a rolling slam, cancel boneshatter build with max block turtle charm with giants blood and hammer of the gods to kill hard rares and bosses. Supplimenting with shield charge and the war cry that explodes corpses I'm now t18 maps . Nah its fun. Maybe it's titan that's the problem, I don't know only issue I have is armor and life is under tuned. Rujikhan, the blood magic passive fixed mana problems outright I don't even notice the life cost at 3k health. I think for pure armor builds buffing life you get from strength is a viable solution. Problem with warrior it gets pushed around too much as well. So pure armor should have inherent stun resistence and grounding to compensate for the move penalty
When you discuss the cost of outlier builds compared to their inclusion in the game, I’m curious about your thoughts on a different approach. Instead of nerfing or buffing these builds, we could introduce a survivability tax. For instance, if an item or skill provides significant power, it would come at a significant cost in terms of survivability. This would encourage players to gamble or go for other classes that are more balanced, such as a tank instead of a glass cannon. We know that a glass cannon will not survive as much as tanks and we’re fine with it.
I’ve been playing some RPG, and I find it enjoyable to have multiple viable builds to progress through the game without being restricted to a single one. However, I also appreciate the challenge of using certain builds to overcome difficult areas that hinder my enjoyment.
Personally, I’m open to trading off survivability for power and vice versa. If a skill can one-shot a boss, it should be challenging to perform, not just acquire. Hard to get applies to players who have more time to invest in the game, while hard to perform applies to anyone who enjoys the rewards of learning the game, regardless of time spent or the use of trade items.
Wtf is this??? DM collaboration with Ruri??? These two are just doing it and it makes me happy.
Is there echo happening everytime ruri talks?
Re: Speed of endgame - While I do agree that One shotting bosses, or clearing like HoI + HoT, etc might not appeal to some. I think Ruri didn't account the investment that you need to be able to reach those numbers. We can say Spark Archmage and Invoker is an outlier and needs to be toned down a little bit, since the investment : DPS ratio favors the player more. It doesn't speak well with other builds. Most one shot builds I have seen cost like 100 divs or more (again there will be outliers but you know what I mean).
I am one of those anomaly gamers that actually play ARPGs for the story. Like I didn't have issues with D3 or D4 because I actually liked the story. Never played PoE 1 but I gotta say the story on PoE 2 did drew me in, I like it, I like the cliffhanger we are in, missing the acts 4 5 and 6, which also presents an issue with me now in the Endgame because I see no reason to do it honestly.
That being said, thanks DM for saving me money by saying the story in the expansion of D4 sucks, I have seen tons of your content and your tastes in game seem to align with mines and Ruris as we can see
It’d be funny and absolutely awesome if you try to introduce DM to Monster Hunter.
19:03 path of exile 1 has the chores list in the leagues (season) and you slowly earn cosmetics for doing it (like craft with x curency , do x number of vendor recipes , do this event x number of time etc.) i can imagine we will have something like this in poe2 eventuali (it gets really hard to do like half way throu the list if you are casual like me lol)
I think as long as Rarity is in the game, no matter how they change it it will be meta and Trade will be inflated and it will drive players away. Players will chase that Stat however they can. It should be removed so everyone is on the same level.
as someone with like 120+ hours on merc that's got to be a bug because I've never had my crossbow "jam"
Two of the most down to earth creators thank you for making my shift at work a lot more enjoyable
i dont know if i can believe he got the first exalt at lvl 44. those things drop like candies.
I only hope they don't nerf the "fun" out of the heralds. I have experimented with a half dozen builds and keep coming back to it because my monkey brain really enjoys flicker striking through an entire map watching screens pop.
I’m so glad to see them vent about Warrior! You can make it to end game. You can kill everything but it feels so bad to play! Needs changes.
If you can't screen clear then maps need to change. Cause that gameplay is 10x better than the screen clear slop. It also lets them tune defenses and challenge in more interesting ways that gimmick on death effects and hard to see ground effects
Warrior is so much fun, the combat is deliberate and methodical. Very skill based. All these blasters are hating warrior because they actually have to pay attention. If they can’t cannibalize the content with one button then they call it dogshit. Their whole approach to video games is dog shit. D4 exists if you don’t want to pay attentiom
The problem with nerfing anything right now other than the crazy top builds and no monk and the bell are not crazy. The mobs and bosses need to be tuned down and balanced which they are already starting to do. Because right now when half the mobs zoom around the map at 100 mph and a lot of white mobs and bosses just do way way was to much damage with certain skills it's hard to balance correctly. After a couple more patches of this which we are getting the first one this week it will be allot better to balance the player and classes.
Get DM to try out monster hunter with wilds!
Act 2 music is fantastic
I'm straight up taking a break from the game, just because I can't stand to play with the crossbow jam bug anymore. Maybe I'll try monk by the time they fix it.
DM's point about the endgame is a false dichotomy. He is thinking of the campaign pacing without adjusting the endgame to meet that pacing. Meaning it isn't Maps, a shallow grind that is all about quantity over quality. If endgame was more about quality content.
1:28:10 your terms are acceptable. make bosses keep the hp, make mobs have higher HP and lower the damage of mobs and bosses at higher levels. It could be tuned to the point where you do a bit more damage and clear faster the better gear that you get but not to the point where a boss fight takes less than 1 minute. Think about it, you already have that during the campaign and few first tiers of maps, they just need to keep the scaling from there under control so it stays at the same level as before. But instead, mobs don't have that much more HP, but they have shit ton of damage instead. It's 100% a design decision and the wrong decision for sure.
When I look at classes in POE or POE2, I don't associate skills and certain defense mechanic directly to a class.
I was playing deadeye with molten blast and it worked fine (ofc it sucks).
Warriors is not bad, in fact i think Titan is a T0 class with Hulking Form alone. You could do many crazy things that other classes usually couldn't do since there are many small passive nodes effect that are very powerful and unique. A 50% boost on those node can really make some huge difference.
But mace skills, life and armour are basically trash at this point. This is what really tanked the warrior experience. I felt like most people find more success playing warriror if they find other ways around without using maces and life/armour, and I think that's the beauty of POE2.
Although, I would like to see some serious changes on mace skills and life/armour to improve the experience, so that one day, I could finally build a good strength based, melee gemling legionaire, with two 2-handed mace and smashing monsters, instead of being smashed.
Oh and dont have rarity in ruthless mode if it ever gets added to PoE2
We need hyper armor
Leap Slam is the ONLY build I've tried on warrior that feels decent. T15 cleared but not super juiced and armor, as we all know is doo doo.
The absolute number one issue with Path of Exile 2 is people killing bosses before the mechanics even happen. It is way more of a big problem than people seem to be realizing. Just about everybody that plays the game, and particularly wants to play this game over Path of Exile 1, or never even tried Path of Exile one because they don't like super zoomy 5000 mile an hour hyper Crazy Fast instant death characters, we are here because this game actually has gameplay and is not a one button game. The people that are figuring out how to kill bosses before even one mechanic happens is basically like alpha\beta testing and I get it, and it's a good thing if the developers are quickly responding and shutting that garbage down. GGG doesn't seem to be wanting to fix it, or even saying a word about the biggest problem with the game¡!!!!!!!!!!! I think they need to be very vocal and clear with the community if that shit is going to get fucking fixed or if that is going to be the way the game is! If dodging and blocking and actual gameplay completely disappears at the end and it becomes just pressing one button then I think everybody would want to quit the game right now and they need to be fucking honest about it. The developer needs to realize that at least half the player base if they find out this is a one button game in the end and all the actual fund mechanics and combat completely disappeared they will all quit right now and don't want their time wasted.
26:54 one thing that made ds the "hardest game ever". is that it was in the ps3 era most rpgs very actiony and also fs preformance uptill bloodborne was the one non a or s tier stat as a studio. imo ur first one will be the hardest. the main ones imo ds3 sekiro are pretty strict in making u learn the gameplay style.so if its ur first game outside of AAA 3rd person action game it makes sense why people say its the hardest game ever in comparison to the broad appeal games theyre accustomed to. i even see why people struggle with elden ring if its thier first because while combat easier early game leveling easier. u dont get the straight forward path that the others have which imo help make people feel like while it is challenging at least ur making progress and can see ur self eventually getting gud
Funny DM saying about POE 1 "its a game that u will enjoy and not enjoy right away" Thats how i feel about POE 2. very slow weak no agency to progress power level. I hope POE 2 gets better
I don't think high speed map clearing automatically improves the rate at which you can improve your character. At the end of the day, the odds of a good drop you want to use on your character in PoE2 are abysmal. And 2x efffectively 0 is still effectively 0. Plus GGG can (and should) up the rate at which useful loot drops. They have roughly a set rate of progress they want us to attain as well, so if we all run builds that exceed that, that means they'll lower the rates, and that means anyone not running a zoomer build now is below the intended medium. And on the trade side, the faster people clear maps, the faster they get currency. The more currency people have, the more currency items cost. At the end of the day, if something is overperforming sufficiently, it should be nerfed. And, of course, to maintain consumer trust, it is equally important that things that underperform sufficiently be buffed.
So, basically, the game can have slower paced on maps, with fewer, but stronger/more-rewarding mobs, and progress would be the same. And it would probably be overall beneficial, if it is the extreme top end that gets reigned in. That means more build variety is considered viable, and a casual will likely have performance closer to a no-life zoomer (although will still likely be quite outclassed, hehe).
And that Arbitar 6m hp argument falls flat, because GGG sets that mob's hp. If they set it lower, you don't need to do that much.
Economic value is determined by the players. If something is OP or used to make things OP, its value will increase. So, really, if something is overly expensive, that's a good sign that thing needs to be nerfed, unless it is extremely, extremely rare. And ultimately, the game has a lackluster loot drop system, so relies on trade to such a degree that they have enough demand for leagues that have no trade. So, if those expensive builds outperform the regular builds, you create a situation where the rich get richer, which should not be desirable. Short of it, if something is overly expensive due to how it performs, it should be nerfed.
And on rarity find, another bad take. He thinks rarity find might be a good thing, because drop rates are bad, because crafting is overly random. But that's like the reliance on trade... it doesn't address the core underlying issue(s), but instead, relies on an added layer to cover up GGG's poor ability to balance. And, like in this with crafting, it creates new problems, where there's no point to crafting, when you can just trade instead. So what's the point to magic find impacting currencies to help crafting when we'll just use that currency to bypass crafting? Fix the underlying issues, the poor drop rates, the overly RNG crafting, the inability to get the drops you want/need due to too much RNG (and that's an issue now, before we get 6 more classes cluttering things up with even more types of loot).
For more hp per point of strength, that also leads to another issue, and that's the Gemling merc. They already get more hp than the warriors, and if you increase the hp from strength, that advantage will only grow.
They also need to improve 1h maces. You mention how your damage feels bad, and, well that's the reason why pretty much all warriors get Giant's Blood, despite its 3x str requirement. 1H maces need a boost, or else maces need to be reworked to be a mix of weapon damage and some innate skill damage, rather than them being all based on the weapon's, typically.
This should have never happened. You have a lore guy interviewing a blaster. There is a divide an ocean wide between these two
Are there plans of changing the story? I am a lightning monk lvl 46 and can't beat the second ascendancy challenge. I got into the pt2 story through the portal and can't beat the first boss. I will not follow a guide.
19:32 I think the actual problem with Diablo 4 rn is Blizzard and the state it’s actually in.
Especially after Microsoft bought it, it’s just not, what it used to be, even if this trend started way before.
I‘ve had technical issues as well, where I accidentally clicked on the character boost and there’s simply no way to undo that. But it’s account wide, so my first player experience is completely ruined.
There’s no way to fix this.
That’s where moved over to PoE2 and have been having a blast with it since then.
Hearing that there are even worst problems in the game, where you can actually loose your season pass, makes me worry even more about the current state of that company!
That’s where they literally loose customers for good reason. If they’re not able to fix those things really quickly, people won’t give them any more money. At least I won’t.
So this has to be fixed, seriously.
That Phrase your looking for DM is "Cookie Cutter" Classes...
IT IS A FACT 💯!! Whole Hartley a BLIZZARD THING.. they always do this.. They have always Dumed Downed there games as time goes on... 🙄
Remember when the Bear Tank class in Wow that had like 5 heal moves out of the 10 they left us with when panda hit... they literally NUKED talent trees... Literally TOOK IT OUT OF THE GAME... 10 million of us got fkd.. and abunch of YALL went back for seconds.... and stayed... and that is what it is...
D6D4... THE DAY DIABLO DIED!!!
Yeah boi! I saw Darth for the first time when he was making Raid videos, terrible game, lovely person!
I played immortal on launch too and I actually thought some of the dungeons were pretty cool. That being said I only played them once so I can’t comment on the replay ability of them.
I 100% agree with dm. Diablo immortals bones are amazing. The timed world bosses. The pvp. Clan war. The tree bosses. All dope af. If they didnt have p2w it would 100% be better than d4. Its sad cus its actually a good game at its core. Ruined by greed
The only thing I care about IS the storyline... Lol can't believe soooo many people are missing out on it