Time Team S15-E12 From Constantinople to Cornwall, Padstow, North Cornwall
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- Опубліковано 19 бер 2013
- One summer during the 1980s, strange crop marks appeared in two fields on the north Cornish coast near Lellizzick.
Aerial photographs taken by archaeologist Steve Hartgroves and two geophysics surveys revealed dozens of circular and semi-circular shapes and lines running across the clifftop fields.
completely addicted to this series in about 8 hours of binge watching.
It got me through the quarantine. It's great show.
I'm still watching....can't get enough.
Its so soothing :)
Day 2 form me :D
ua-cam.com/play/PLavnuQTJWv_6i3HrZ0HYX7rndEgKwAxyY.html
Being set Time Team episodes for homework is why I'm a Classics and Archaeology student.
19:18 I live in a small fishing village in Newfoundland. To hear this guy talk about the wind, the coast and how to navigate it is no different than when I talk to guys down on the wharf today. The first thing they talk about is the wind, the sky, and how that affects where the fish and crab will be. Want to know what's going on with the coast, and how people dealt with and navigated and fished it hundreds of years ago? Ask a fisherman.
That's really neat :)
If Geo-fizz isn't a drink, it should be.
Doom Bar is a very good pint.
Doom Bar is a good Cornish pint.
It's probably served "on the rocks"?
I'd drink it :)
If Lellizzick isn't an ice pop it should be.
"This piece of seaweed stands for the city of Carthage" - a sentence I would like to drop into conversation some time, but have yet to find a proper opportunity.
Go for it!
_You will,_ *Tom,* _you will._
Personally, I'm waiting to use the line, "I've been slapped around the face with the wet haddock of reality." That was architectural archaeologist Jonathan Foyle in S15E10, "Keeping Up With the Georgians."
@@haplessasshole9615
He's cool!
I've noticed interesting asides or comments from him that were almost sarcastic, even rising to the smart-ass level, that were very surprising coming from a Brit.
I even looked him up but he didn't spend any length of time in the US.
He's refreshing, anyway!
@@eboracum2012 Who, Jonathan Foyle? Yeah. I'd like to be around if he and Paul Blinkhorn ever wound up on the same dig. It would be worth the sweat and blisters to sit at a table with them on the obligatory Evening of Day Two Pint-Fest. They are two hilariously funny guys. Then, when Sir Tony's around, the banter gets even livelier. He's a catalyst, that man is.
One of the things that I love about Time Team is how many there are. A real Treasure trove!
Sometimes the arguing archaeologists remind me of modern politicians until I remember that I've never heard a politician say "no. I was 100% wrong!"
Well, some have said it but it was usually after they retied or were elected out of office. LOL.
This is what happens when idiots vote for *reality TV stars* instead of people who are educated in politics and have *real* leadership qualities. That happens because the general populace (like most people who hire others for jobs) think that the most important thing is the applicants popularity, not their ability. If people were wiser, they would respect honesty far more than popularity. Because those politicians who do admit they are sometimes wrong, are far far Far more honest than those who continually deny they have ever done anything wrong (everybody makes mistakes, that is a fact). Those people who never admit they are wrong, are outright bold-faced liars.
@@aylbdrmadison1051 This is what happens when a set of people find that the world has changed far more than what they are willing to prepare themselves for that change then turn around and blame those that have prepared for the change in society then have some idiot that thinks he can remake the world although if Adam & Eve had a better idea at the time what would happen if he bite that apple that just maybe he shuld not bite that apple. And of course there is always an element of the righteous wanting to punish those that they think are going in the wrong direction. The real clincher to getting back to a sense of reasonable logic is that the righteous start to abandon any sense of what is being done is fundamentally wrong and they should not stop projecting that on those that disagree with them or look different than them. But, there seems to be that string of a television and a reality "star" involved. Like a person selling a $ million of something, never having a background in that product and then all of a sudden a trailblazer.
@@aylbdrmadison1051 So what reality series did Obama, Bush, Clinton or JFK star in?
@@volundrfrey896 None. But, Clinton and JFK were close. The darkside of Camelot was a great book on JFK.
Fascinating. Loved the map in the sand!
That sand map is so cool :)
Beautiful map!!!!
Thanks for posting
what a beautiful place. I am going to visit this very nice and interesting country one day. Hopefully
Best of luck, England. Greetings from Denmark :)
What I like about this episode is that it is a reminder that how we in the present day should not be quick to assume that just because to us a community seems to be in an out-of-the-way spot or lack all the signs of what we think of more sophisticated signs of civilization or technology that that is necessarily true. One reason I think we are so often very impressed by the Romans is that they are so obviously very like us in so many ways.
Sometimes I think Time Team gets more done in three days than other digs get done in a whole season.
I love how often Francis Pryor digs his own trenches.
The field where they dug most of the trenches has been replanted in the Google Earth view
50°33'24.5"N 4°57'05.3"W
but many of the surrounding fields show round crop marks.
Third time watching this one…i love the drawing of europe/ africa on the beach
I seem to remember that the Mediterranean sailors liked to beach their ships at night, so a nice sandy beach in a sheltered bay would have been fine! No need for a more conventional dock! Certainly, a sandy beach would not have been a problem for them. However, the tidal aspects would have been novel for them as it is not a problem in the Med! So the timing of entry at high tide to make the most of being beached would have been critical! Surprised they didn't think of that. Anyone who has followed the ancient history of the Greeks and Roman naval activities would have known this.
@anthonybrownhovelt - Then sailors who used that beaching technique would be VERY dependent on local knowledge in order to get unstuck. Example - beaching on the highest tide of the year would leave them actually high and dry for the next 12 months unless they could get a 100 men to help them dig out and haul their vessel to water deep enough to float in.
Also the abrupt ending in the 6th - 7th century could have been to the fact of the canal built of with silt and was un-navigable
Look at all the places of the ancient past that were associated with the sea that no longer have frontage on it because of silting or the meters of soil that have to be removed in order to get to the archaeology? Remember that everytime your mother tells you to sweep the floor! LOL>
It was due to Dunbar sands (to us Cornish, Doom bar to everyone else), moving. We get really severe south westerlies, and believe me when a storm hits with a south westerly behind it, it moves huge chunks of sand down here. I'll show you a modern version of how sand gets drastically moved here in Cornwall. Ever seen a sand cliff?? Well here you go...
i2-prod.plymouthherald.co.uk/incoming/article1016225.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/SWNS_SAND_CLIFF_02.jpg
It happens a lot down here.. There are villages in Cornwall that have small little beaches, that can have all the sand stripped down to the slate and granite bedrock in one evening. Then re-appeare next day or couple of days later, just as if nothing had happened. lol...
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/11363263/Cornish-beach-is-washed-away-overnight...-then-reappears.html
Dunbar sands is constandly moving.. The channel has moved at least once in the last 50 years. The powers that be were going to dredge it a while back, but in the end it turned out to be to expensive.
Time team rocks, it brought archaeology to normal people, am sad it's finished
They have a new crowd sourced Time Team show on UA-cam with many of the original people.
I just love all the pre-history episodes :)
Just imagine all the prep they have to do in order to do these pre-history episodes. They have to find a piece of ground with a history, Put in all that stuff so that when the diggers come round to look for it they find it in stages that the bradcast looks very compelling, and on and on. That is a lot of wrk! LOL>
@@tompahdea9263 And some of those people have a great imagination! I mean, thinking up a whole empire and its history - *_WOW!_*
ps No, I didn't think you were serious. 🙃
@@tompahdea9263 - Scoff if you like, but there had to be a ton of behind-the-scenes activity - - - from evaluating proposed sites, to extensive research on the chosen site, designing and filming all the side-bar knowledge-enhancing pieces (the map in the sand being an example), to trucking all the people and equipment to a site, to setting up tents or engaging local hotels and inns, to providing food and sanitation services to the site, to merely laying cables and setting up satellite dishes, sound equipment, and lighting.
(Whew! The cameras aren't even rolling yet and I'm exhausted.)
Then post-excavation activities like breaking down, packing, and trucking away all the equipment, Returning the site to pre-episode condition, post-production editing and adding animations, then marketing with TV trailers and a merchant website...
This one show supported many different activities and trades AND expanded human knowledge while they were at it.
Phil's back into 'good edge swingin' round' mode.
I am addicted to this show and miss mick he was a great man and curmudgeonly sob❤
Phil is a great big boy digging in the dirt and finding things you would thrill to have in your hands
Tony is tony always a good laugh and great friend too all cherish the ladies whose insightful comments are so important but poor Francis is a bit of a git
Keep it up folks we appreciate all you do to make us closer to the truth about who we are and where we’re going 🇬🇧
What has to be remembered is that trade from the source may not have been how these items reached the site as they very well may have been part of a trade as you go along so that goods from one area were traded to others that continued up the coast. But it woukd be great to think that vesseks traveled the whole route on teir own.
At high water in a relatively 'shallow draft' boat (as ancient vessels were) you can easily sail close in to Harbour Cove even since the 'new' dredged channel was created. I have sailed there many times. The 'overfalls' around the point are deadly and always to be avoided.
I was thinking they wouldn’t need to get deep keel Spanish galleys in there, just some shallow ship to shore transport for easy coastal trade. I’d imagine anybody doing consistent trading with Britain would take its rocky coastline into account. And as for the shoreline, wouldn’t take much to build a jetty that likely wouldn’t survive to today.
@@johansmallberries9874- Or the jetty could now be buried in sand.
I truly love *Time Team* and I enjoy watching the digs, etc., again and again.
I also like YT with it's astonishing range of unqualified _experts_ pontificating and correcting the *_real_* experts. These archæologists are more highly qualified than any of these _armchair experts_ but they are inevitably wrong - _apparently._
This tendency of these _armchair experts_ is less noticeable in the *TT* comments (gods be praised) but is astonishingly pronounced in the comments on _proper_ archæological programmes/videos about *Pharaonic Egypt.* The videos promoting conspiracy theories, ancient aliens and other such nonsense are vastly preferred - _though not by _*_me!_*
Gorgeous place.
one of the fields near the northern tip shows hundreds of rounds circles that are clearly visible. I think that would have been a more important site as it is the most protected and probably were the leaders area.
I thought that is exactly where they did dig?
Padstow ala early 80s, was a beautiful place to be.
Indeed it was, I spent a lot of time there myself in those days. Is Rick Stein still charging a week's wages for a two course lunch ?
@@Kevin-mx1vi Im not sure, I havent been home in 15 yrs, my uncle used to have a fishing boat at padstow, half my family lived down that way
I saw the remnants of a port in the water during one of the cameras fly-over at 18:49
Maybe. If it were a port I'd have expected *Stewart* to have said so.
In Kansas,USA, crop circles like this site has are simply places where livestock feeders have been moved as the ground gs trampled and muddy around each circular hay bale! Too bad they aren’t ancient buildings!
This is the University for the many tv could be but seldom is. Now a days tv is the mental equivalent of junk food.
They seemed a bit distressed that there was so much agricultural activity at a port. Sailors like to eat. Wouldn't it be logical for there to be animal pens near a port, to sell meat to provision the ships?
I think the over-stretche the "port" - what if only a handful of ships called each year (summer)? What else but agriculture would the local people live off for the rest of the year? And would Carthagenean, Roman and Byzantian copper and tin buyers really trade with a bunch of subsistence farmers?
To me it is far more likely that the various finds were simply "leftovers" from when ships called to buy copper and tin from whoever sold or supplied it, the l"eftovers" being traded to the local farmers for food and drink etc. You could probably get very drunk and or have a splendid night at the cost of one samian bowl or a few roman coins.
Had it really been a bustling port, the layers of refuse/finds would likely have been much thicker - look at a place like York which had a similar longevity as a trading place (Roman through Viking/Norman times) and note the thickness of the layers there.
@@noremorsewoodworking2258
2,000 or so years ago a *British* port was rarely very big but any proper trading settlement by the sea is a port _by definition._
@alanrtment porter
You're a _bit_ late - but any support is better than none!
😉
29:38 - Mick : "It's not round at all, it could be rectangular." Haha, that is flexibility.
Mick has a great sense of potential that he provides the programme otherwise who in their right hed would be willing to go out into the country without conveniences and spend 3 days trying to find a pile of stones and a beautiful tiled floor?
Any archaeologist worth their salt would be flattered to be considered for a single time team like dig.
@@tompahdea9263 - Oh, they had conveniences, alright. They were just off-camera, though in some episodes, you can see a food truck or the like. But they were there. They were always showing the computer tent with all the electronics gear and cabling and back-ground personnel. These were probably the plushest digs many of those archeologists were ever a part of.
That circular bit of sharp flint with the hole in it has nothing to do with sailing. It so obviously a Cornish pizza cutter. =) as evidenced by that pizza oven they thought was a grave site.
+widdershiznit Hahahahahaha....
+widdershiznit SO you're saying this was Pre Cornish pasty ? That puts it very early.
+kha sab Oh, aye. Indeed! And so exciting! I'm afraid they surely had anchovies as a topping. Perhaps this is where the fishing came in to play.
widdershiznit p
Meadow Morph h
Impressive map.
The Turks didn't arrive at the gates of the Byzantine Empires until much later and didn't conquer the land till long after that.
...it's nobody's business but the Turks (for those who don't get it, that's a line from a They Might Be Giants song)
@@Jigger2361 it is very much everyone's business
@@stiannobelisto573 ...it's a line from a song - They Might Be Giants
I flew into Turkey in 1957 and left 1958.
Absolutely correct observation. And what an odd error for this show.
Was here Nov 2019
Hadrian's coin - why, that IS called experience :)
A agricultural settlement with a few beach combers collecting wreckage from the coast!
now we are in Time Team s15's end, it makes me sad that it's ending soon (not watching the final seasons that ruined it). BUT! I am a Time Team Patreon patron so I am so glad I know this story has a happy ending.
Phil usually proves his argument, where Fransis, says a lot of Might, or could be, or probably.
I love Phil, he's totally awesome! But Francis is far wiser to more often say; _might, could be, or probably._ It is a simple fact is that we will always find more, learn more. If we keep our minds open to this obvious fact; we enable ourselves to learn more about anything and everything.
The end of trade to Cornwall was most likely due to the Justinian plague of 534 CE. This would have been a transmission point of this plague into Britain. And began the “Dark Age”.
And the 6th century was the time of the Plague of Justinian and before that probably the terrible eruption of Krakatau that made it into Indonesian oral tradition that Roger Verbeek found out at the time of the famous one in the 1800s. Not only did lots of people in Byzantium die, it also got to Britain. You can't trade over those long distances during a volcano-caused famine followed by plague.
There`s a modern Cornish ale called "Doom Bar"!
i cannot help but wonder if you have some of those finds BECAUSE ships foundered there? there is a place near me called Long Beach Island New Jersey, (usa , east coast) and we had "pirates" who would literally walk or ride the shore with lanterns to trick boats into coming in too close at night, and wreck. then they scavenged the shore...
Does anybody have an insight as to why the circular pattern on the geophysics all appears to overlap the same way, sort of like fish scales?
They arent all from thr same period, there are many hundreds of years on top of each other
I'm a little confused about the notion boats couldn't land in the cove as there are two concrete boat launches IN Hawkers Cove, proving boats can land even in modern times. One is an old lifeboat station. You can see them both on Google maps. Plus, 1500 years ago, the Bay would have been much different. Many of those old ships sat higher in the water as well. I really don't see it as a stretch.
Didn't these bronze age groups still use deep pits to keep food fresh/frozen from their spring/summer/fall hunting, growing, fishing & gathering foods for winter? Maybe that's the pits of what they found in Bridgid's trench.
I like Stewart. Very interesting work he does. But, a nautical map is called a 'chart'. :-)
...he got there eventually, from map to chart :-)
Google Map location Here: www.google.com/maps/place/Lellizzick,+Padstow+PL28+8HR,+UK/@50.5563954,-4.9510706,135m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x486b754eb1f1fc53:0x8881f0c9cfcd2e6f!8m2!3d50.5589848!4d-4.9545344
Traces of these roundhouses are visible on Google Earth eg 50.565891 -4.950331
Of course they are visible of Google Earth. The Martians have been coming here for generations!
Here's a thought ... Before the Iron Age, how did people get their ironing done?
@Ross Meldrum They had bronzed bodies from taking off their unironed clothes because the stoners creased up laughing at them.
Adam Mangler hot rocks and potato juice? Or maybe they wore them till the fell off!😂
Pirates booty-sold and traded when coming into port. Thousands of Yr.s ago they they would burn wood -using lots of water-to make Coal-in these type of Round Houses. I am curious about the striations within the water, @ 22:02-interesting. If a large Vessel could not come all the way up through a channel-they would drop a smaller boat, fill it with booty for sale or trade-anchoring the larger Vessel out a bit.
I was with the USAF in Turkey, 1957-1958.
granskare ... and the point of your comment is what, exactly? Because it has f-all to do with this video!
❤
Why did the Roman's make their amphora jars round on the bottom? What a hassle!
@STLbtgrl - I have always wondered about that, too. Did they have a rack that set the amphora into to keep them from rolling around in the hold and smashing? We need an "Amphora 101" episode.
That sand map will be rediscovered in the year 3897 by a time team group of archeologist.
...or a cyborg
And deemed "something religious", which is always used when they haven't got a clue about what they've found :)
So, we do not go to Constantinopel. I was in Turkey for 2 years. My son was there in about 2012.
Surely Departments of Archaeology at Universities across North America would jump on any opportunity to be financed to record investigation into indigenous sites.
*Jim Thompson*
I'm sure they would _if_ they felt that such investigations would not be dumbed-down, trivialized and commercialized by the TV companies.
Why would they need a harbor.. if I was looking 4 tin and knew of a source. As a Capt. I would anchor in the river. Send row boats in and supplies out. There would be more profit if one bypassed the harbor merchants...
no Constantinople visit?
Francis always stays the same age while the rest of the team gets older and older. Some kind of Druidical hocus pocus?
Ritual
Did you even watch the show before you called Tony an idiot, Byzantine wasn't a country it was an empire made up of most of the countries surrounding modern day Turkey and if you had watched the show you would have noticed that all the experts including an expert on Byzantine said that the pottery shards came from Turkey, also to note Tony is first and formost an actor and only an amateur archaeologist so as an actor he would have to use a script and no he is not an idiot
Or did it happen from super storms that distribute items from one end of the planet to the other?
@1stDigitalNomad - Storms aren't all THAT super.
First aired March 23, 2008.
In 2,000 yrs give or take wouldn't there possibly be a lot of sediment in there? That would shallow it up considerable I would think.
1 minute in: who else thinks the geophisics map looked like doughnuts? Watching at 1am. Lol
Obviously the sea level was higher in 2-300AD so that would mean more water frozen at poles perhaps.
Like to see a chap make that spindle wheel these days. Hard as hell to drill rock,
It's the other way round. Higher sea level means LESS ice at the poles. Global warming nowadays will mean less ice and, consequently, higher sea levels around the world.
Bruce A You are correct, but there's more: The sea level was a bit higher then, partially due to crustal compression by the immense weight of the glaciers, as well as from meltwater. The crust has been rebounding ever since, slowly pushing the land higher. Some of this effect has been cancelled out by modern polar melting.
+Bruce A sea levels change due to either more water (duh) or Glaciers pushing down the land. It is doubtful that there was a glacier large enough to push down cornwall at that moment in time.
Hoverbot1TV; If I understand what they said, it wasn't the sea level so mush as the depth of the sand/silt/mud in the river bottom. They augered through several meters of sand before hey got to the silt of 2000 years ago.
Sand and a piece of round wood would drill through quite easily would have thought. It's a method that's been used for centuries. :D
7:53 does Robinson doubt his expertise? I love the way he's calling him out on bullshit without calling him out on bullshit lol.
Nope, it's just another of his little pre-set tricks to get the experts to explain. He fairly often expresses "doubt" about identifying finds.
Are you 'avin a laugh? Is he 'avin a laugh?
I love this show and the archeologist . It's a show designed for the beginner and also children. It's been said many times "it's archeology for the beginner."
Are you 'avin a laugh? Is he 'avin a laugh?
IT'S NOT b.s. Tony tries to get explanations in the simpler terms for all segments of the viewers. it must be working because they have been on the air for way over 20 years.
@@janetrapoza4142 - I find him to be a big turn-off. He was obviously in over his head. I watch "Time Team" in spite of Robinson, not because of him.
Why only three days ?
Because two days isn't long enough...
*Rachelle Brooke*
The three days is because of production constraints like money and time. _All_ the archæologists had full-time archæological jobs.
I imagine Tony has forbidden the program to ever show him being asked whether he has a plan of some sort. And rightly so!
Trade ended in the Dark Ages app 500 AD when civilization collapsed, not just the Byzantine (last of Roman) Empire AND as EASILY available HIGH QUALITY steel negated need for long distance (expensive, difficult) tin trading. Iron production was in constant development and diffusion - China made excellent steel in 500 BC, not so in Europe and good steel didn't fully replace bronze until 1000 AD. However, in the Far East, steel could easily have been replacing bronze earlier, due to diffusion from China, invasions of nomad warriors for whom reliance on bronze = death making good steel invaluable and expensive bronze worthless. Iron age overlapped bronze for nearly 2000 yrs as iron was improved to steel and the tech spread. Romans relied on 'steel' but even Romans relied on BEATING roughly smelted iron into steel to work out impurities and incorporate carbon make it workable rust resistant sharpenable vs melting ingredients and pouring into molds finished and used - also remember the best Katana's are made similarly, from a 'lump of iron'. Such can be as good as steel but it's never going to be as cheap and plentiful as poured steel product.
Suddenly Mick is here. When did he die?
June of 2013. RIP!
Thank you. He was gone for awhile and then he's there as an observer. I thought he was dead before these episodes. Thank you for informing me. I will miss his rainbow clothes.
his jumper was buried in a time capsule
Peggy Jenkinson i beleave it was in session 20 he passes but not to shore on the day i just wish this show was still going i loved watching it but in happy to c u.tube has every session from 1 to 20 plus all the specials they did
I loved mick to the end of my days
The river is the Camel, as the land was Doom.
Five days would have been far better. Maybe fewer episodes but much more found. Maybe even seven days.
“Graphics!? Get your arses on the beach and draw it in the sand. We’re not paying you lot to sit around and gorge yourselves on craft services”
The so called 'turkish pottery' is greco-roman (byzantine). Turks didn't migrate in the area until much later.
Migrate?? Haha make that invaded
They call it Turkey because many viewers might not be familiar with Byzantium or Anatolia. Saves an unnecessary digression.
Watched
I really like this show. But Ive noticed they like saying geophys.
Tony, why be surprised ? Don't you remember in church the hymn "Jerusalem"? About when Jesus and joseph of Arimethea traveled to England.
#TIMETEAMin2020s
This is the one that finished off Francis Pryor for me. He's so invested in his own theories that no amount of evidence or the lack sways him. I actually liked him as a personality but this stuff is bananas. You need to find bones and check the soil for phosphate to determine if there was wide-scale animal breeding.
If you ever want to drive an archaeologist crazy, just put a wet glass down on one of their photographs.
Well, if it is a flat piece of paper on some surface isn't then a serviette rather than a photograph? Archaeologists have to get with the times before they are left behind. LOL.
One thing is for sure.......Anthea is not only smart but also very pretty !!!!!! 48:06
@thomasmoeller2961 - Grow up. There is nothing more sexy than a fully functioning brain.
Long pinkie finger nail? I was under the impression from my anthro courses that was a sign of someone that did not work with their hands? But personally, I would say it should apply to someone with a sense of culkture which some people may say is rather peculiar considering his speech. But that just goes to show that you cannot judge the package by what is inside the mind.
He plays the guitar, which is why the nails on his right hand are long... it's just that simple!
It strikes me as uncharacteristically sloppy for the team to be referring to "Turkish" pottery from the 5th or 6th century, when the Turks were still in central Asia and quite some distance even from the Mediterranean. I suppose they mean it's from Hellenized Asia Minor?
christosvoskresye True, but probably used "Turkish" as a modern geographical term that the average viewer would understand, I would guess.
***** I'm not very optimistic about "the average viewer".
But just listen to the first bit, "... this is Turkish, ...." There is nothing in that to indicate that Asia Minor was meant; a better guess might be that it was at least from the Islamic world. After all, they talk about all kinds of things being "Roman" that were never in Rome and were built by people who had probably never seen Rome, because at least the CULTURE was Roman. None of this was produced by the Turkish culture.
+christosvoskresye Unfortunately, had they been accurate and described it as Byzantine I think few people would have associated with that empire and instead applied the modern meaning as something complex.
Seems like you're intent on picking holes - this is a TV show not a written thesis. When they say "Turkish" they mean "from the region that is now modern day Turkey". The average tv viewer is likely to know where modern Turkey sits on the map especially since the audience are British. If you found a coin made in India in 1870 you wouldn' call it a British Empire coin - you' refer to it as Indian. If this show were made in the eastern Med the references would be different as the audience would understand the local history differently and that Turkey didn't exist when the pots identified were made. Got any more nits you want to pick ? This show is filled with people who are world class academics and experts in their field - be pleased such educational material became so popular in the UK instead of the usual ignorant rubbish that is on our screens.
History Fanatic
It's too bad that the English can't, according to you, find Asia Minor on a map. It used to be taught in school.
As for the "India" vs "British Empire" bit, you are totally failing to understand the difference between a geographic region defined by (among other things) culture and language as opposed to political control. Yes, it would have been silly if Time Team had said that the items from Asia Minor implied trade with parts of the world as far away as the Roman Empire (which controlled Asia Minor), because pretty much all the trade partners available, including those just across the Channel, were parts of the Roman Empire.
India has had a distinct cultural identity for a long time, regardless of whether or not they were independent or even unified. The same is true, to a somewhat lesser extent, of Germany. It makes sense to talk about Latin America even though it is not one political whole. On the other hand, if, say, the United States were to occupy Japan beginning this year, reduce the population along the lines of what happened to the American Indians, completely replace the culture, and rename the island group "the State of Roosevelt", it would still be pretty stupid to talk about what Tokugawa Ieyasu did in 1600 in the State of Roosevelt.
sea levels would have been different 2000 years ago. the beach erosion for example might not have been there. people had row boats for meeting trade ships anyway. too many conclusions being asserted here without factual proof. traded exotics could also have come across land from sites like Isle of Wight. Round houses are not limited to any specific age--building has to do with local economics more than history timelines, silly rabbit. The way these people approach dating is not as professional as it could be...
+Fox1nDen The difference is sea level over the last 2000 years is about 25cm-50cm. Not a significant difference when vessels would have had a 3-4m draught.
Yes, things could have come overland but sea travel was much more efficient. The sea was the highway in antiquity.
The show doesn't go into the boring details but these folks have a few hundred years of experience between them and dating evidence from things like pottery are pretty accurate.
The materials, the consistency, the styles and such all changed over time and those dates are well known.
+Stannous Flouride identifying when something was made is fairly easy in a small pond like British Isles where history has changed often, no quibble there. I just know a coin dated a certain date does not necessarily have to have been deposited with a group of other coins anywhere near the year it was made, as people who collect coins know. if a coin collection including coins from a 400 year period had been scattered, for example, by plowing, over a large area, that would not in itself prove people had lived there the whole time mentioned on the coins. It might mean the coin collector had built a great group of coins and some later farmer scattered them over a field unawares. Numismatists know exactly what I'm saying. I have found very old Polish coins in a field in northern Indiana but the chances of it having been lost from a collection are much better than that someone from Poland lived in what is now northern Indiana in the year of its date. The other thing I'm saying is people outside of the real finds tend to try to make boundaries between categories way more inflexible than they are, and in that sense I agree with Mick completely. Britons lived like Romans to keep up with the Joneses and to fit in with Roman political system of delegation to the locals, and maybe even into the Roman period lots of rural people preferred to live in roundhouses common to ages before. People are not as ridden by our categories as we sometimes assume. I have great respect for the professionalism of Mick and Phil and the specialists. They don't jump to conclusions as often as Tony does for example. Thanks for having the conversation. If we can't watch new Time teams we can talk about them...
+Fox1nDen " _if a coin collection including coins from a 400 year period had been scattered, for example, by plowing, over a large area, that would not in itself prove people had lived there the whole time mentioned on the coins_ "
do you honestly think these highly trained, experienced archaeologists aren't aware of such simplistic ideas ??
+Fox1nDen , I share your sea level dating question marks, was it lower or higher within the time frame of the dig?
rofl, you still blathering on about coin collections?
I love this show and very intreeged by it and the cast god bless them I get teathered when I see the crew doing an exspert job but the script boobs on details such as there inability to define constanopile as being roman empire and not turkish
Wow! Back to spelling class for you. Not to mention grammar and punctuation.
MrBluesWife Maybe not, whole ass.
@paulypizzaful - Grammar and spelling are your friends. They certainly are for those of us who tried to read your screed.
pause at 39:45 ish and you'll see those are not the same pot. coloration is different and the craft streaks go in different directions....
Jakathera; and listen to Tony point out that bad guess. :-)
Gee . with all these great brains around it took half way through the second day for one them to say maybe the cove has changed shape and character in 2000 years . Duh!
ed lechleiter ... my thoughts exactly. Especially with a sandy cove.
I'd have a lot more respect for the program if they got rid of the vertically challenged one & the other two had haircuts.
This 3 day shit is driving me nuts. Please tell me the arch carries on????
*Roone Briley*
The three days is because of production constraints like money and time. _All_ the archæologists had full-time archæological jobs.
7:13 This is not how to address a lady in the 21st century young Mat.
Why is the land so undeveloped?
I know it's childish but I laugh every time they say slag
Maybe an ideal place for looting shipwrecks
Byzantine is an adjective i.e. of or relating to the culture of Byzantium. Byzantium is the noun - place name.
am I the only one who thinks the theme music doesnt end right? it starts off nice but ends awful
there are parallel octaves between the melody and the bass line, which makes it sound wrong. You have a good ear, Clare!
Cheers, Willem (composer)
We know from the archaeology HOW people lived but unfortunately not how they communicated. What languages did they speak for instance in the iron age and before? Does the history of language go back to the stone age? I would love to know the answer to this!
30:32 😱😱😱😱😱😱
10:28 "So did the exotic overseas pottery really come here by boat?" It landed in England somewhere by boat Tony, the Red Eye Flight from Istanbul was still in he planning stages then. Honestly, did anybody read these scripts before he read them on camera?
The programmes are not really scripted beyond an outline. Most of the dialogue is just as it happened.