Jeff Nippard & Mike Israetel Renaissance Periodization DISLIKE CHEAT REPS - WORST FITNESS ADVICE
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- Опубліковано 15 жов 2024
- This is a response to the first topic in Jeff nippard’s new video OVERRATED: WORST FITNESS ADVICE found here: • OVERRATED: The Worst F...
I really like this style of video Jeff made but I dont think it sheds enough light on the topics they’re deeming overrated or underrated. I’m just giving my two cents about cheat reps. Also, I love science and studies so I consider myself somewhat of a science based geek as well. Dont take offense to it…it’s just engrained in my vocabulary now #fitness #workouttips #lifting #strictreps #cheatreps #exercisecritique
I really like this style of video Jeff made but I dont think it sheds enough light on the topics they’re deeming overrated or underrated. I’m just giving my two cents about cheat reps. Also, I love science and studies so I consider myself somewhat of a science based geek as well. Dont take offense to it…it’s just engrained in my vocabulary now
thoughts on lenny reps?
@@adiboisjoly tan ten tens?
Show those Manlets who is boss big guy
Hope you are gonna do a nutrition section critique, curious about what you think about protein intake, cheers.
Who are these nerds taking offense to you calling them a geek anyways?
Eric finally answering a question I’ve always had: “who tf turns their TV volume up to 100”
"Cheat reps do not equal ego lifting" Truer words have never been spoken 💪
Also who is rating cheat reps and ego lifting? They can't be overrated or underrated if no one is rating them you know what I mean
@@robertrichard2322when ppl say something is over or underrated it’s in relation to the average opinion of the general public
@@ewag8950 exactly, the average opinion of ego lifting is that it is not good so it is correctly rated, and on cheat reps people rate them poor usually so I would think they are correctly rated too, unless you feel the same way as the boogster in which they are actually underrated, I believe cheat reps are underrated
it's a very simple concept, but seemingly not simple enough for you: overrated means that people are doing it more than it should be done.@@robertrichard2322
ego lifting is based
Meathead reacting to science based lifting is the content i freaking need, breath of fresh air
more like breath of sweaty fart
You're spot on about the flip flopping of opinions and how people keep rediscovering what everyone already knew.
Thats called science you m0r0n, you change your opinion as new evidence comes out
you can't both flip flop and rediscover known things. and no, neither of them are actually true.
@@opensocietyenjoyerYou can absolutely do both, rediscovery means to find something again, and a lot of research goes back to confirming methods that have been in vogue before.
@@opensocietyenjoyerSo it looks like from your other comments you don’t actually understand what cheat reps are.
@@powerhouse8310 ?????
You are a shining light in this new age of geek lifting
I love science too but at the end of the day, I’m gonna horse some weight no matter what the laboratory reports
i hope you don't paint or bob in a pencil neck way. Just bob freely, horse bob it. Horse paint that shit.
It's effort that makes gainz. Not weight. Hence why mindsets are so effective
just say you go to failure cus u cant count
less time counting more time lifting@@BULD0SIS
@@BULD0SISthat sounds pretty based to me
@@BULD0SISSometimes I forget the count.
I genuinely resisted “cheat reps” for so long until I saw videos of you talking about the value of them. Now I use them exactly as you said in this video: strict form, and once you can’t hit it strict anymore, bust out a few more “cheat” reps. As long as your form doesn’t completely melt into nothingness, you’re not gonna hurt yourself, and the stimulus of those extra couple reps is insane 🤘🏻💪🏻 thanks for the GOLDEN TIDBITS, Rick de la Stick
Totally, cheat reps are not ego lifting, they're for intensifying a set after you've reached failure.
This. Slick Rick's tips like that years ago helped grow my arms bigger. Those last, excruciating reps on curls or heavy pushdowns are golden for squeezing out more gains.
keep telling yourself your not going to, because for general pop they will, unless your an athlete or top tier anti injury genetics then be my guess but don't speak for the average
I love Eric's takes because he always recognized the nuance in things rather than seeing it in absolutes.
Every tool has a purpose
bruh he's doing the opposite of that. he just yells: "just lift heavy compound"
Only a Sith deals in absolutes.
love the response to TV format. Allowing the cranking out of mega content without fancy, pencil-necked editing. More anabolic wisdom please Rick.
Thanks bro 🙏
Respect for Eric. Not only is he showing just how dumb we’ve become as a people to only digest information as “black or white” but he’s also letting us know his perspective on how HE approaches his training. In the end we’re all tryna get big.
genius insight man how's the fusion reactor coming along?
@@Phuninterestinghelp it's leaking
well put
even stubborn Mike israetel has said that there are multiple ways to skin a cat. Looking at the different styles of Ronnie Coleman, Jay Cutler and Dorian Yates - all of them got big as fuck. Jay with high volume, Yates with Low volume max intensity and Coleman with light weight.
@@timmian85well put
The psychological aspect of just fucking throwing around some heavy ass weight is arguably much more beneficial to you than any absurd optimization of movements will ever be, remember that in real situation where pure strength is necessary you are NEVER going to lift something optimally.
This is fantastic, feels like my horsed out PE teacher giving me a lecture in applied bro science theory
Amazing dissertation from the Professor of Mass & Hypertrophy
1:20 I love how Eric instinctively did a lat spread pose after seeing Dr. Mike and Jeff doing it. Great video! You made excellent points. I’d love to see an in-depth discussion on this topic between you guys. It would be really entertaining and informative!
it was instinctual, like watching wildlife, just beautiful stuff.
@@conciglio5576absolutely true! It’s indeed an incredible sight to behold.
We can stop calling him DR. Mike. He's far from a DR. tbh. A Dr. Fucking saves people. Let's reserve that for people that need to do a job rather then lift a weight.
@@tomguglielmo9805 thats a medical doctor your referring too
@@tomguglielmo9805take meds
Pencil necks take these videos as gospel. Mr del hagen is pretty spot on with every take. The issue is the pencil necks falsely conclude that having their "perfect" form with a 135 bench is somehow going to yield crazy results and they completely ignore the need for pushing yourself into the uncomfortable aspect
Is it impossible to get uncomfortable with strict reps? I do agree with most of what you are saying but there are some exercises where it takes way more effort and delving into what is uncomfortable to keep strict and go close to failure, super deep high rep hack squats and leg press with a pause at the bottom for example. It’s way easier to start cutting depths and loosening form at 10 reps to get 20 than to keep strict and get 16-17. Again I agree with what you are saying overall but I believe the critique can go both ways.
@@coleanthony8241it's impossible to push hard eith strict reps. Strict is easy, duh. Cheating makes it harder, duh.
@@Micheldied is it possible to go as hard as possible with strict reps no. Is it possible to go hard in general with strict reps… yes. The point of my previous post was that some people abuse cheat reps because some exercises are get really painful in the target muscle when pushed to failure strict so even though there is more overall exertion with the cheat reps an element of pain (burn, stretch etc) an element of pain is being avoided. And like I said, some people, not all.
@@coleanthony8241 I was being sarcastic. I don't see how it is harder to go hard with strict reps from a target muscle standpoint. Absolutely, you can go hard on your entire body by cheating and doing even more work when the target muscle has failed, but then you aren't training the target muscle. You're just going hard to tax the whole system.
@@Micheldied lol, my bad g.
Completely agree, I'd love to see them delve a little deeper into some of these. Tools can be used well in their proper applications, and cheat reps are just another tool
Bro science is my kind of science
Facts 😂
bro science works if you believe in it enough
@@punishedgondola1814 Broscience is so powerful it work for the non believers if they just tag along.
People who only focus on hypertrophy and ignore athletic movements really confuse me. Is it just the pursuit of vanity that pushes these people to go to the gym? Dr. Mike makes fun of people who do farmers walks and battle ropes or anything that isn't exclusively hypertrophy focused. It's really silly.
His view is to increase hypertrophy and grow muscles. Period. If battleropes help you, good for you. I’m not in the gym to swing ropes around, I’m there to grow muscle. That’s it
@@Psilocin-City so you only train for aesthetics? So your whole pursuit is vanity? That's sad little buddy, I hope one day the dude in the mirror is big enough for you
unless he says otherwise hes ALWAYS talking in terms of maxing hypertrophy
My biggest issue with Mike’s training is that it seems boring.
Seeing Rick the Stick do 8000lb cheat rows in the rats nest got me pumped the fuck up BECAUSE IT HAD A SOUL.
And what do you know… dude got huge and strong.
but then stop pretending like bro science is the way to go. you just find it more enjoyable, because you don't really appreciate going to the gym for progress. you just want to signal how manly you are.
@yonaoisme your reply is boring. Therefore, disregarded.
ofc ur profile pic is a cross, you suhbuman deregenate who not only believes in fairy tales, but you want to force it on everyone else.@@EskimoClay1
@@opensocietyenjoyer dumb comment. You’re not sacrificing progress just by doing something that is more “enjoyable”…hence the huge physique and elite strength Eric and many others possess. You can have them both.
I've long noticed on UA-cam, it's always the guys with small arms, correcting the form of guys with big arms.🧐
Jeff has huge triceps
Eric I started adding a few CRAZY EGO FILLED DEMON DRIVEN SETS back into the routine along with my pause sets and slower controlled sets and I’m glad I did because while I still feel like those slower sets do great justice for the pump there’s nothing like throwing around some freakin iron. Thank u for this and the last vid.
I agree. Cheat reps are a good intensity technique to squeeze out the most you can stimulus-wise out of a set. Even though it is a cheat rep, it is not mindless. There is intent on where you applying body english and then where you control the weight within the range of motion the exercise is being performed.
Between you and Sam... I been growing again because of cheat reps. 10+yes lifting and I've been stagnant the last 2 because of being so meticulous about form. Curling HEAVY ASS WEIGHTS got my bis burning today. Haven't had that feeling in years.
Same here, I had been stagnant for about a year, then after I had a break, I needed to get back fast, so I just went for it and horsed some loads. Now I'm bigger than I have ever been.
You guys need to stop listening to the twinks and nerds, respectfully.
If you're doing the standard 8-12 reps but not adding the body english to squeeze in an extra 3-4 reps or an extra set at the end or a mini set at your 3 rep max you're getting left behind.
@@shadow_realm47 Come join the 100 rep club, we get more jacked!
@@shadow_realm47 You're literally the fuckin dunce that eric is talking about in the video and you don't even see it. It's not black and white lol. They aren't all bad or all good. Use your head
It is called Ego lifting only because their ego cant handle people lifting more than them
We’d all be jacked if we were 5’4 like Jeff. 20lbs on him is like 50lbs of muscle on us
If I only did strict technique I'd feel like I haven't tried hard enough. Part of lifting to me is fighting the demons. The grind is essential for the freakin' soul!
Nice love it bro
The whole "I lift to fight demons" thing is so cringe lmao.
U can grind with good technique
@@user-he4ef9br7z he might have some mental health demons that lifting hard helps him alleviate. Nothing cringe there. What’s cringe is trying to pretend to be cool all the time.
@@StopTheDamnTapeIt's similar to those "my girl ditched me now I'm gonna purposelessly move heavy stuff to show her who's a real man." people that I can't stop laughing at.
Delts lookin freakishly capped and biceps bulgin’ out… holy frick. I gotta suck down some calories right now
Would love an Eric v Mike collab, I think they'd both realise they actually have a LOT in common.
I like cheats and partials for beyond failure work, I like full ROM for standardization. Best of both worlds.
I like how it’s minimal editing he’s literally in front of a tv with a camera and I didn’t even notice till the end 😭🤣
Zero edits…Johnny OneTake
Just a little personal anecdote, I've been lifting for a while and have always lifted using a faster/more explosive cadence. In the past year though, I started experimenting with really controlling the negative with clean technique (mostly due to all the content on UA-cam and curious of the potential progress).
The results? Can't say my physique looks a whole lot different, although I have been lifting for so long so I wasn't really expecting much. However, one thing I did notice (which I don't really put much stock in but just thought I would mention) is that whenever I lift with super clean form and control the negative I don't really get any soreness, I get way more soreness when using a faster/looser form.
Now again, I don't really put much weight into soreness being super important but if lifting with a super controlled form results in no soreness and lifting with explosive form results in soreness using the same relative effort then I would say the technique that resulted in soreness probably indicates extra stimulus. That's just been my experience though, not sure if anyone else has experienced this.
That's interesting, I'm gonna have to try this out for myself. I guess my only issue is how can we know that soreness is an indicator of simulation
@@shane9723 Right, I don't put a ton of importance in soreness I just thought it was interesting.
Watching this while studying for my intellectual property law exam at UW. I appreciate Rick making it clear that this is fair use.
don't put "Sticky Ricky" as your name on the exam.
@@gibbsm too fugging late guy!
01:20 the instinctual lat spread to assert dominance over the guys on screen is absolutely hilarious
This is a pretty level headed video. I think you have pretty interesting nuance to bring to the conversation on much of it. It feels much more easy to apply than normal
The thing about the gym is that if you find the lifts and style you like you can likely achieve your goals that way. If youre having a good time you will keep coming back.
Many people today treat the gym as just this obstacle on their way to gains. I love that guys like Eric clearly love training. Those people, imo, get further than people just looking for the optimal way to do (x). I get it, life is short, and theres Always a better way to do something. However, would encourage everyone to remember that it's supposed to be fun. Sometimes i deviate from my programs to do singles superset with box jumps and other shit. That kind of stuff has kept me in the gym for a decade + and my physique hasn't suffered. I think people's anxieties about time and efficiency can sometimes hurt their ability to appreciate how lucky we are to be able to express ourselves through exercise haha
The argument i always present people with is arm wrestling. Take a look at arm wrestlers like Devon, Levan, Ermes. They pretty much only do cheat reps. And they have the biggest and strongest arms of any other sport. I think if you do it right, cheat reps can be extremely transformative.
Exactly and look at Denis cyplenkov when he had the biggest biceps and he was cheating all the time on bicep curls
@@NorbertDz 100%. And then he beat the world record for strict curl. Having only done cheat reps. Lol
No. Sure they have big arms. They don't have bodybuilder arms. They have completely different goals. Using arm wrestling training as a template for bodybuilding is stupid.
I say this as a guy who used to train for armwrestling and now train pure bodybuilding.
Do people not realize that Jeff and Mike are speaking from an optimality in hypertrophy? Not strength, not arm wrestling. They're not saying strict reps are important for anything else, apart from hypertrophy.
@@Micheldied Again, look at the size of arm wrestlers arms. It's pretty clear that cheat reps are hypertrophic. Given that you control the eccentric, you will see hypertrophy. Obviously strict full rom reps will work just as well or better for most people. I'm just saying i don't think i would call them under rated or "stupid" as Mike put it.
I’ve figured it out. In the rush to put out content in volume, all the fit influencers have to do these dumb segments or say “this not that” or “this obscure thing is the only thing” or “the thing that Mr olympians do was actually dumb” - Ricky and I subscribe to the theory of everything; everyone has different bodies and we should all do everything and anything that helps us reach our goals, not think in such black and white.
Loving this convo and video. It seems the primary rebuttal to the anti cheat mode of thinking is the stretch:
One may ask why cheat to get a full concentric when you can go into lengthened partials instead?
Why not put the weights down, rest for a bit, and do another set? Or minimize the rest time and do a couple clusters with great form?
If someone is using so much weight that they can’t do one good form rep it seems that would def be entering into the zone of ego lifting to some degree.
Non of these are necessarily mic drops but I’d love to hear some opinions.
I agree cheat reps aren’t horrible but there are better and safer ways to get the same benefits
"One may ask why cheat to get a full concentric when you can go into lengthened partials instead? "
Because lengthened partials won't give you near the same amount of strength gains.
Strength + hypertrophy is better than just hypertrophy.
People are way too dogmatic about form. "Good rep". It's just a guideline, your body doesn't give a f about the form, only the stimulus.
@@morbidcorvid9294 the strength point is very interesting. Given absolute load on the bar is much more important than failure proximity for strength I would wonder why we wouldn’t just rest do more solid reps/ sets. Strength is fairly movement and muscle specific, and given how cheat reps spreads out the stimulus across so many non target muscle and the inherent technique consistency sacrifice im not sure how it’s giving you way more strength than the other options presented.
There is probably a bit more strength to gain by doing cheat reps but there might be more volume efficient/ safer ways of doing that. With all that said there are probably particular situations in which cheat reps are better. But I am inclined to believe they are sparse
You are right there is way to much technique dogmatism. Though a lot of it is nonsense there is fruitful conversation to be had over what techniques delivers the most stimulus and the least amount of anything else.
I discovered your channel a couple of days ago, and I'm really liking these videos.
Ive recently stumbled upon to this channel and i freaking love the videos!
This is why context is so important because everyone has different knowledge/ideas about what something means; in Jeff's video they should had agreed on exact definition of a cheat rep before judging. Regarding the topic, I agree with Eric. One thing I'd add is the worst way to get to gainsville is getting an injury. That is why people should take injury prevention just as serious as making gains imo. Not everyone is in the same position as one another and should evaluate injury risk, come up with their own injury prevention protocol, and decide what to do.
True..injuries will set back your gains big time. Stretching is a lost art amongst us meatheads
Whenever I get sticky stuck on a heavy rep and the bar just won’t move, I’m gonna picture Eric grunting *MOMENTUM* to boost my test to 2000ng/dl for instant PR’s
"but Ricky they're scientists!" And yet they don't even eat the fig paste or drink the 14 scoops of instant coffee in 8 oz of water. How scientific can they really be if they can't even do the basics?
Yep reps =8+3 means 8 strict + 3 partials, 3 cheat reps or 3 'myoreps' so you see 11 reps on your log but if you look closer you know getting 9 strict reps next week is an improvement. I think only doing one intensity technique is limiting in long run
Mike Van Wyke has a solid approach. Find the right path, go through the range of motion and let the body move how it wants to. Being stiff is counterproductive to lifting weights, lock down in one or two areas but not the entire body. It's fading in and out the position that creates the appropriate tension and stretch.
I think science is great for getting a foundation in lifting but at the end of it there is a lot of science based shit that doesn't get me the gains, so my warm up sets is nice and clean with good form and slow eccentric and then on my working sets I throw on heavy weight that causes me to use a bit of body english to get the last few reps of the sets, lifting should be hard working fun, if we focus to much on the science and aesthetics it will start to feel like a chore, if you progressive overload and stay consistent and eat enough calories the aesthetics will come but i feel like strength should come first, what good is looking jacked if youre not strong
Dr. Mike thinks that his PhD makes whatever he says is gospel. It's bordering on 'scientisim'.
Thank you eric, the fitness industry truly is becoming the religion industry of fitness and it's dogmatic ideas. It's hilarious because it's still ego
I only want the finest science from Eric. We're launching weight into the stratosphere while blasting Whitesnake.
I think maybe cheat reps are an even better intensity technique than dropsets, depending on how the dropset is executed. With dropsets what can sometimes happen is you enter a place where the stimulus is more metabolic fatigue over actual direct hypertrophy-creating mechanical tension. With cheat reps you get to have that same weight in your hands that you were doing before for full reps & just pushing a bit even further beyond typical failure with a relevant % load.
Agree
Thank you Eric for making a video like this. I feel like its gonna teach people that intuition takes you further in life than whatever is “proven” on pen and paper 🤘🤘
Hey Eric love your content! Been meaning to ask what your seafoam green headphones are. Looking for good lifting headphone recommendations.
Can we get some sticky Ricky ringtones and notification sounds
i want my notification sound to be "WHAT THE FRICK!!!!!!!!!!"
I've been watching Mike Israetel videos and he has some good info. Unfortunately he is one of those people who do not understand how you utilize studies especially in a field that has less than gold standards in many of its studies. Exercise science has so many parameters within making actual valid studies that most of them are only incomplete or suggestive results of said subjects. I was in a position where I was able to see first hand how the setting for a study on the effects of creatine on beginning atheletes was completely useless because of practically nonexistent controls on the test subjects. Their calories, amount and quality of exercise, amount of hydration, sleeping and rest and dosage or creatine was not monitored in any way and the study was said to be valid. It's beyond ridiculous to me. I read these studies as possible guides and do research of my own if something seems legit. I suggest others do the same. An open mind is great but don't fall into the trap of believing people and studies on face value
I assume all studies are useless unless the person making the claim explains exactly how it proved his claim. Crazy how often the conclusion to a study will state the exact opposite of what its data actually proves, for example.
Just an inherent problem with fitness studies is sample size, it's near impossible to get something with enough numbers, biggest ones I seen are a few dozen people which is near meaningless unless you get overwhelming results. The answer is just workout, find things you like to do, don't be a dumbass and you'll be ok. How many people were in the creatine study?
Hes a studies nerd who blasts gear, isnt strong enough for powerlifting and has one of rbe worst ohysiques ive ever seen. Not sure why anyone would listen to him
If you actually watched Dr Mike then you'd know he says the exact same thing about studies that you do lmao. He has never been the "studies (results) are king" guy.
@@Micheldied He takes the results that suit his own opinions as examples. That's not a sound practice. A study has merit if it is valid. Most people want to bolster their opinion and not seek the truth regarding the use of studies. You have to understand what is a valid study and most people do not
Love RP, but don't get their hate towards cheat reps either (or any form of reps that doesn't include slow eccentrics for that matter). Mike acknowledges the hypertrophic effects of stretched partials (with the Wolf guy) and he repeatedly says the last few reps closest to failure are the most stimulating reps. Not to mention the devotion to eccentrics. As Eric excellently explained, cheat reps get you all of these effects.
Besides hypertrophy, cheat reps also anecdotally contribute to "full" body coordination, which lead to strength gains, which leads to more hypertrophy gains... See Chinese weightlifters doing accessory work with crazy cheating form. One of their coaches explains that cheat reps are intentionally used for strength gains.
Even IF cheat reps had no hypertrophic or athletic benefits, it's undeniable that it increases intra-set volume. This is a useful tool to squeeze more volume in a short amount of time, similar to myo-reps, drop sets, or mechanical drop sets. We KNOW Mike likes myo-reps and drop sets - see his shoulder workouts with his athletes repping out lateral raises with no weight, or his leg workouts with leg press Myo-rep style. WHY THE HATE FOR CHEAT REPS, MIKE?
EXCELLENT VIDEO MR. STICK
Another thing is that cheat reps can increase THE PUMP. THE PUMP is a great way to feel relative muscle utilization in the targeted muscle groups, which can inform one's understanding of the exercise's stimulus (we're all trying to build/expand our repertoire of high-SFR exercises). THE PUMP helps elevate one's muscle activation for strength gains and THE PUMP can improve recovery via SHUTTLING THE NUTRIENTS INTO THE MUSCLE (see Stronger by Science).
To me, cheat reps essentially reduce/eliminate the concentric phase. Beyond that fact, you can work them in in a multitude of modalities to fine-tune your workout to achieve your goals, whatever they may be. I absolutely abide by everything RP preaches, but I can't stand how they shit on any path toward gains that doesn't involve controlled reps with slow eccentrics.
My takes:
1- Cheat Reps to me were always harder than normal reps. When I cheat I end up using my body and for sure more energy.
2- I always saw cheat reps as reps that I had to 'clean' in my next workouts. I did 2 extra cheating rows? These 2 reps should not be cheated in the next session (or sessions for the matter)
1) Harder- doesn't matter. You're wasting energy you could have used in the next set properly.
2) Replace cheat reps with lengthened partials. 10 extra lengthened partials end of set. Change them to FullROM in the future.
Training hard is good 👍🏼
But youre incorporating muscles that normally werent involved. From a bodybuilding standpoint that isnt good because its all about isolation
We gotta have a Bugez and Israetal collab!
All of this style of exercise/lifting is so subjective, you don't really know how effectively it's working for a person that you see at the gym unless you feel what they're feeling. That's why people like Mark Rippetoe only focus on quantitative results/numbers with 4 exercises because the average lifter can't choose RPE or know how many cheated curls to do but they can do 3x5 bench, squat, deadlift, etc and next time lift more weight and have the results. Obviously novice progression eventually stops working, but my point is that this stuff is too subjective to make definitive statements like they're doing.
although dr. mike is a exercise scientist, he is embarrassingly unfamiliar with sticky ricky’s HORSECOCK METHOD
Look. Jeff seems like a nice guy.
But his content is absolutely hiding behind "making advice for advanced lifters" in order to make content that tells beginners it's ok to quarter-ass it. The people I know who follow Nippard and Isratel's teachings who weren't already jacked? Can't progress past being a novice.
I don’t see how that’s possible.While they don’t stray away from the old fashioned way of lifting I think you can make gains with how they teach especially Mike.
@@Ksavage2010novices are more likely to fall victim to paralysis by analysis listening to Dr Mike’s advice
@Ksavage2010 because they're constantly pushing using RPE and tempo training.
Which are good tools when you actually have experience to gauge your level of exertion and know not to use too light a weight "so you can meet the timing."
And also the whole part where old fashioned lifting is full of "ego lifting" and "cheating."
Also Isratel will just say shit to be contrarian and seem like the smartest guy in the room. I've seen him argue AGAINST progressive overload just to be contrary to Greg Doucette (who has issues of his own).
Also wtf is an "anabolic stretch position?"
That sounds like just throwing buzzwords in there. How is the stretch position putting your metabolism in an anabolic state? Is it purely because the microtears induce anabolic growth? If so, how is that different to any other exercise stimulus?
Dudes are just setting themselves up as the authority with who makes up the vast majority of people on fitness social media: newbies who join the gym on New Years.
I haven't watched Jeff Nippard since college 2019 and his problem is he wants to sound like a scientist yet isn't really a scientist. He's a UA-camr.
Bugez X Sulek workout soonTM
Eric in front of the big screen is quickly becoming my favorite type of video on yt
You hit the nail on the head with these videos. Always contradictions. Just sticking to the basics and giving it your best is what works best in the end.
Totally agree Professor Bugez. As a sports science graduate & meatheat I think we all just need to settle down and get with the principles. Get stronger over time & get stimulation to the muscles you want to grow whilst doing so. I've seen horsecock harrys with thick meat and I've seen percy pythagoras perfect rep with thick meat aswell. The question is what do you enjoy & what will keep you coming back for more? I like a 1-2 combo I'll whip out my protractor & nail them 3 sec eccentrics sometimes and other times I'm getting limp bizkit on & smashing shit up like a coked up hyena 😂
Sample sizes in studies thoroughly cited by Nippard and Isratel: 12 moderately fit men from the local area, 4 being control.
Sample sizes & population in studies alluded to by The Bugez: over 80,000 from many different regions, rich, poor, and in-between, 27,000 being used for a relevant age range, ~9500 octogenarians, ~9500 nonegenarians, ~8500 centenarians, all of who's diets and lifestyles (alcohol, tobacco, and medication use) were thoroughly surveyed, and the only constant was garlic. Placebos were also implemented.
(The correlation between eating garlic and reduced rates of all-cause mortality he talked about at one point)
Who's really more science-based?
You’re the man Rick. Mountain Dog John Meadows blended science and experience very with his four phase method.
definitely hit the nail on the head. the point of the video is think was to spit out a bunch of tidbits as fast as possible but a lot of the topics on that video definitely shouldn’t have been so black and white as you said. hope it’s not too much to ask for another video giving your thoughts on the rest of that video
I can't believe he didn't print out a transcript to go along with this video of a tv playing a video
Sticky Ricky dropping truth bombs as always. Totally agree with your definition of ego lifting. I’d also include things like loading the bench press up with a weight you can’t actually handle and having a “spotter” help with every single rep in the set. I see kids at my gym doing that ALL the time.
We need the collaboration. It would be a great discussion on technique and a baller workout video.
Man this was actually really well argumented response...props
Ego lifting = lifting so heavy proper form breaks down.
“Cheat reps” does not always mean ego lifting. “Cheats” can be good variations of exercises.
As soon as they mentioned the cheat reps in that video I thought of the Sticky Ricky in his video about cheat reps that he made a while ago. Great to get another opinion
Always hits the point, with a bit of umphh! Gotta love this guy 13:32
What a purely genius video, we are so lucky to have professor mass on this subject
I also didn't like how they downvoted the bro split. Bro split has served me well, especially as I get older. A lot of pros do it too.
These are the type of dudes to say Ronnie Coleman could have been better if he trained like them lol
Fr same here I stagnated on a PPL split but have had consistent gains on a bro split
@@ambatukoom copying what the pros do is dumb
No views... I gotta fix this
No you don’t. Don’t listen to this meathead
I've been trying to incorporate cheat reps once I have failed, and the difference when done on safer, more isolated movements is amazing.
May I suggest you make this a series called " Eric Bugenhagen VS... "
Arnold used to talk about the “stretch and the flex” to get muscle growth and I feel it has some truth to it. In my case, benching and focusing on the power and the squeeze in my chest when I lock the bar out on my high volume days, I’ll do a db fly and try to go low as possible to really stretch my pec. And what can I say, I’ve noticed the most stretch marks from doing this type of training. And on my heavy day where I find my absolute strength I use leg drive, and grab with a wider grip on the bench, I’ll record that strength too. It’s the difference between benching 315 for 4 and benching 315 for 9, also hitting 365 strict vs 405 with leg drive and a wide grip. On every exercise I’ve tried to progress with, I’ll sort of structure it similar to this and use a day or two of recovery in between training sessions. I think it’s something you all should try out, you can use it for any lift you like really, it’s gotten me from a 495 max deadlift to a 500x6 deadlift. I almost turned 500 into my volume weight when it was a staggeringly hard one rep max for me not even a month prior. In terms of absolute strength I put 50lbs on my deadlift max.
You and Cole Robinson from ‘Snake Diet are preaching the same message lately, and I’m all for it!
If those people are scientists, then Eric is the inventor and founder of weightlifting.
well, they are. and eric isn't.
Eric is an ancient lifter, it is believed he's over 200 years old now (hardly ages) and actually he is the first man that have invented weightlifting. He is in the history books, which you have forgotten to read them, i think you can find more about him at page 43 chapter 8 "Weightlifting Fundamentals year 1800". It's clearly in that how he explains everything and gives secret golden tidbits don't you think so ? @@opensocietyenjoyer
I’m really sick of the lack of agreed definitions in the iron game. Cheat reps are simply overload. That’s partner assisted reps, cluster sets, myo reps, partials, hell, drop sets, reverse bands… it is always recommended to go into the deep water to get maw gaynzzzz. There are just different ways to get that overload.
You have to program all of these things carefully because you will blow
Yourself Away going to RPE13.
But it’s all going to go
To hell if you don’t have a specific protocol to work with when you want to test for yourself. I cannot go to RPE10 and move properly a few days later. But I’m
Sure I am actually hitting RPE10 when it happens.
I want to see scientific definitions from guys like Dr Mike. Specific details so we can actually discuss. Signed, a frustrated trainer lol😂
Eric back in the day as a personal trainer to his 65 year old female clients 6:23
"When the doors of perception [gainsville] are cleansed [stretched fatigued stimulated pumped fed rested and worse etc] man will see things for what they truly are; infinite" -W. Blake, Eric B., and me....
in other words; truth b found here. You either know or u don't. The experience and results are up to you. Info is the map. Experience is the actual place. Both help. neither are the whole deal.
This guy gets it. ["Don't get precious" - seems a fair takeaway for the less literally inclined] get where yr goin or shut up and enjoy the view. [Ends/means are never a rx, unless u are the prescribing physician who uses actuality as their metric]
Can't wait for the next one.
Holy buckets; lfg!!
Sometimes we have to put aside our ego to *cheat* a little bit. On weighted pull ups, for example, full ROM chest-to-bar is great for the ego, and it looks impressive, but are the additional hypertrophy gains really there? I’m not so sure. I find adding weight with a dipping belt and getting more eye- or nose-level to bar and then really controlling the eccentric and letting the dead hang really stretch your lats and tris out straight up works better as a growth stimulus than full ROM pull ups with less weight. I just don’t think the weighted scapular depression brings enough to the table to sacrifice more stretch on the lats and triceps
Dr. Mike's perspective is that cheat reps basically create a tracking issue. You can't know how strong you are getting if you cheat in between sets. Also it creates more fatigue and chance of injury.
What people in the comments section are doing is confusing cheat reps with lengthened partials. Lengthened partials are a valid technique.
To understand what cheat reps are, just watch Branch Warren train.
A lot of the of old school bodybuilders used that kind of cheaty form though (maybe not to the extent of Branch, but definitely not strict). Seemed to work out ok for them. Reducing injury risk is a pro of using more control but I would argue beginner and intermediate lifters don’t need to worry about this, as they aren’t strong enough yet. However there is a con to using strict form when it comes to beginner and early intermediate lifters which is you become so fixated on using perfect technique that you never work hard enough to actually make progress. This is more of an issue than the possibility of getting injured with a looser form as a newer lifter.
@@Soccasteve People tend to have this misconception you can't work hard with strict form. If done properly, strict form makes a set harder. You may watch RP training videos on UA-cam.
And old school is overrated today's bodybuilders are twice the size, the Olympia winners back then wouldn't even qualify as pros today. We simply know more about training, drugs and equipment.
@@user-he4ef9br7z the old school guys looked a lot better, though. Would the average man who lifts rather look like Steve Reeves or Big Ramy? Come on, now 😅
@@user-he4ef9br7z I totally think you can work hard with strict form, I've just seen beginners get so obsessed over their form that they never push hard enough due to fear of injuring themselves. Ideally they would do both but it just doesn't end up that way. Also, even for lifters who can work hard with strict form I think there is still a time and place for less strict form.
As for the point about today's bodybuilders being bigger I would disagree. You just have to look at Ronnie Coleman, Jay Cutler, Branch Warren, etc.
Doctor density spitting some truth
1000 mph to Gainesville is what I need to be on.
No stops at snap city though.
there are no absolutes in weight training. all this do this don't do that can give a newbie analysis by paralysis. If an individual would experiment with different ideologies, they will find what works best for them. Experimenting is half of what keeps me training. it keeps it fun.
How could you possibly ever exert your max strength with perfect form? It's a complete paradox
jeff nippard sped up sounds like ben shapiro giving lifting advice and im learning the hard way that gains dont care about your feelings
these typo videos are like the explaining of the reasons why u and the mindset helped so much putting some gains since i found your channel coz i was always in that optimal science rom typo sh, thank you devilish stick rick
Mike is very dogmatic. He's against any type of cheat rep but encourages tiny little partials, for example, on lateral raises once you've reached failure. What's the difference in some body momentum after failure as opposed to a couple of baby reps?
As a HIT advocate for many years I've come to see that "variation" is a very potent tool in that using multiple techniques/methods in the workouts is very effective! Load is "relative" according to how it is moved & static holds followed by SLOW negatives is KEY to great results/gains, which Mike Mentzer pointed out in the video here on YT titled "lifting weights is a waste of time" go check it out!
This format is awesome
What I would love to see is Eric ft. Mike workout video 😮🙏
Mike and Eric are my yin and yang of lifting
Eric... Right every time. The science tends to eventually proove that the bro science was right all along.
Weightlifting proves your point. The grandpa of lifting is a sport of optimal horsecocking (as little eccentric and posterior chain fatigue as possible). A lot of what people are rediscovering and repackaging now they figured out through literal centuries. They train & recover the most, making gains in not only muscle but mobility and athleticism. From personal experience, a hugely underrated style of training nowadays.