Beast Machines [Part One] Review / Retrospective - Bull Session
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- Опубліковано 29 лип 2024
- Part 2: • Beast Machines [Part T...
"The seeds of the future lie buried in the past!"
- Optimus Primal, 1999
Today on the Mainframe Entertainment Retrospective, we're taking a look at Beast Machines Transformers, the polarizing spin-off of Beast Wars / Beasties Transformers!
Beast Machines Review Retrospective Thoughts and Analysis by Bull Session
Bull Session on Twitter: / _bullsession
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Beast Machines, September 18, 1999
Starring Garry Chalk as Optimus Primal and Optimus Prime, David Kaye as Megatron and Noble, Scott McNeil as Rattrap, Silverbolt and Waspinator, Ian James Corlett as Cheetor, Venus Terzo as Blackarachnia, Alessandro Juliani as Nightscream, Kathleen Barr as Botanica, Paul Dobson as Tankor, Obsidian and Diagnostic Drone, Richard Newman as Rhinox, Jim Byrnes as Thrust, Brian Drummond as Jetstorm, Patricia Drake as Strika, Christopher Gaze as Diagnostic Drone, and Carol Savenkoff as The Oracle
Based on "The Transformers"
Developed by Marv Wolfman and Dan DiDio
Written by Bob Skir and Marty Isenberg
Executive Producers Christopher Brough, Ian Pearson
Produced by Hasbro, Mainframe Entertainment
Distributed by Hasbro Studios
Related works include: Beast Wars, Beasties, ReBoot, Spider-Man, ReBoot The Guardian Code, Shadow Raiders, Donkey Kong Country
Credit to Walt Rebeiro for the Captain Planet orchestral theme
A Bull Session Production. The contents of this video are used in accordance with Fair Use.
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What are your thoughts on Beast Machines? What would you like me to do next after ReBoot season 4? Let me know!
I watched the first season of Beast Machines after watching Beast Wars three years ago. It was okay, but it just wasn't the same, and I couldn't get into it so I ended up giving up partway through Season 2 and never picked it up again.
As for what I'd like you to do after ReBoot Season 4, it would be awesome for you to talk about some of the other Mainframe shows such as Action Man and Heavy Gear (possibly Weird Ohs! although that's a little different to Mainframe's usual output) as well as Max Steel (where Mainframe took over as the series animators for the third season due to the original company going bankrupt)
I always thought the Quintessons killed all the organics when they took over Cybertron. It also helps that the show has been heavily retconned since. With the latest retcons claiming that the G1 Quints were the creations of one of the original Primes gone rogue. And the fact that Primus is Cybertron.
Slightly off the topic but can you do a review about start ship troopers animated series. It came on right before Beast Wars on channel 9 west coast area. It had very similar 3D animation style and at one point i thought it was produced by the same developers.
To answer the original question. When i saw Beast machines i remember only watching about 15 mins of it. After wiping the tears away from my child face from the disappointment of the shows theme and look i never watched it again. I was also upset that Beast Wars didn't utilize tiger hawk more. Beast Wars probably would had done much better now since we have better technology to produce 3D animation. Maybe one day Netflix can do a reboot or something. That would be cool.
I honestly HATE this series. It's dark, dull, boring, they ruined Silverbolt's character AND took away Waspinator's happy ending!!
Always peeved about how the Predacons were almost completely forgotten about & the show acted as if Cybertron's missing populace was comprised exclusively of Maximals. Wanted to see a Pred character join Primal's crew.
I agree completely. It would have been really cool to see a Predacon who actually remained a Predacon (unlike Dinobot or Blackarachnia) join up with Primal's Maximals and be reformatted simply because they don't want to be made a drone.
@@BullSession Also I was super disappointed the Tripedacus Council didn't return. Think including them & their followers as a third faction would've been interesting.
Funny thing is that a green wasp figure was one of the first figures in the line, so that might have been a thought at one point.
@@AwesomeMooseSmile You're referring to Buzzsaw. I've seen fan art & comics depicting him as Waspinator's Technorganic upgrade.
Oh that would have been sweet. Honestly I think one of the show's greatest weaknesses is the awkwardness of the transition between the two series. Like Megatron being strapped to the shuttle was just a dumb gag in BW, but it's an important plot point in Beast Machines.
I quite liked the message of Balance over Extremism, it just wasn't executed well.
Agreed. Primal was still pretty extreme all things considered.
And that's why he was kicked out as leader.
Another thing that kinda bothered me was that they tried to have too many themes.
Having a or a couple themes is essential to give a show its identity, but Beast Machines just had too many for a 30 episode series.
You have authority vs democracy, technology vs nature, science vs religion and probably a couple more I couldnt figure out.
You cant build up and explore so many themes, AND tell a solid narrative in such a timeframe.
I dont hate Beast Machines, its in my opinion one of the better shows, but I cant deny that it has some fundamental flaws.
@@BullSession But think about it. Some kids grasp things harder than others. Some even watch both of the series years after. I was one of them. Back when UA-cam had no corporate stick up the ass, I actually was able to watch both series without becoming broke, because my dad hated television. Watching Transformers First series, the movie, to Beast Wars, and then Beast Machines made me feel more like it was a technological evolution. I wouldn't want to have to visit a planet with a helmet on like Spike's kid had to. I would want to be able to breathe the air as well. What this show did for me was let me sympathize with characters I grew to know through best of ups and worst of downs, but still having time to find peace within it all. Hell, with Rattrap having the power to literally make buildings move by his tail alone. He's a technological God at that point. He chose peace when he could've done so much more damage. I actually appreciated that. It showed how much you change when you're back home, protecting those you care about, because you know you are the last ones left.
That is why he cares about Botanica. He never risked his or anyone else's life except for when he needed to. Need Vs. Want. That was his lesson.
And come on, the quote "Hang in there, Sprouts." Made my 9 year old ass start crying for them.
@@BullSession Honestly, my biggest problem is the way it was executed in the way Cybertron looked at the end of the series.
Instead of looking like a true melding of nature and tech, it just looked like nature with a slightly altered paintjob.
Well, I may have mixed feelings on the series overall, I really dug Megatron's look in this. I like that "Space Cult Leader" like look they gave him. Giving him robes is a neat touch, plus it's cool to see him actually commanding competent henchmen for once. Wasn't a huge fan of them removing the more comedic/relatable aspects of the character, but I still enjoyed him overall. Especially near the end where he goes body-hopping!
What did you not like about Beast machines?
I just wasnt a fan of them removing all the guns from the characters. Major downgrade.
@@GeteMachine They had to do that because they thought it was very inappropriate to have gun's in cartoon's
@@thechampionofskylandsthe designs were horrendous just bad design principles. Like no one in that crew had basic design skills
@@slurp3194 NO THEY WEREN'T! THE DESIGN'S WERE PERFECT!
Yeah crazy just how much Mainframe Entertainment's animation improves in the mere 3 years between Season One of Beast Wars and Beast Machines. In Beast Wars early episodes the characters don't even seem to cast shadows due to the cheap lighting. Here the animation is smoother and the characters seem to actually effect the light. The rate of technological progress never fails to astonish me
You should review TFA. :)
its interesting that in aligned continuity , they have that "cybertron was organic at one point" plot
Wait, what? Where's that at? I've never heard of that in the Aligned continuity.
@@wd3185 bruh..I honestly don't remember, Its been 2 years since I posted this
@@wd3185 same here, i think theyre wrong
It does add a bit more that it was revealed they originall were just looking for a planet with life on it from the start, while Megatron was why they went through the Beast Wars, because they wanted Energon from Earth, but went back in time because of that transwarp chase. So Beast Wars in continuity was what they were originally supposed to be doing apparently and that Cybertron used to be a normal planet before it became mechanical thousandsor millions of years since. It might even make sense to explain why in G-1 there are robot fish, because how would robot fish exist without someone who knew what fish were to build them? Or if they mechanical fish came after natural fish were long existinct.
Writer 1: Alright, how should we handle Rattrap in Beast Machines?
Writer 2: Well, let's make it so he's no longer a demolitions man, because explosions are bad!
Writer 1: Um... What?
Writer 2: And he can't fight now, only hack stuff.
Writer 1: Okay, but why though?
Writer 2: Also, let's make him look like that robot from that one crappy PSA nobody liked.
Writer 1: But---
Writer 2: Also, he has a girlfriend now!
Writer 1: Oh, well that's good! Who's the lucky lady?
Writer 2: An anthropomorphic flower!
Writer 1: ...
Which PSA are you referring to?
The "I can remove my arm, you can't!" one they had on YTV.
"Astar", the Canadian PSA amputation maniac mascot. That shit was an unpleasant visit to the uncanny valley every time it aired
Holy crap I remember that.
Astar was the worst. That's a good way to scare kids, to be honest. "Here's a robot dismembering himself after an intense action scene and putting him back together, so we can scare you into being safe around dangerous hazards." I mean, it worked, even if it gave us a nightmare fuel robot.
It felt like they didn't even try with Beast Machines.. I remember being really disappointed with Beast Machines as a kid.
I didn't watched it as a kid but I do gotta say the design are not great
Neither nature or technology are good or bad, but extremist views are. That's an interesting theme to this series. It makes me wonder if Primal and the Maximals are really the good guys.
In Season 3 of Beast Wars, Optimus tells Blackarachnia that she has a choice to remove her shell program and become a maximal "It is the Maximal way" he tells her.
Then Optimus' goal is to force organic forms on everyone on Cybertron. They'd also have to change the name of the planet at the end!
That's a great point. Hadn't even thought of that
Optimus never intended to force organic forms on the transformers, only to bring organic life (later techno organic life) to Cybertron.
And Optimus still believe in the "Maximal way" as shown when he stopped the other Maximans when they tried to control Tankor's will after they discovered he was Rhinox.
And primal isn’t the only hypocrite on this show. In Beast Machines Blackarachnia Forces Jetstorm to reformat back into Silverbolt even after he outright told her he didn’t want that in episode 14
@@kylecampbell565 to be fair it took out the worst threat out of teh three and two leaving silverbolt like that was to be inhumane
If you incorporate the lore from the comics, Cybertron is technically Primus, who sealed his spirit inside an organic asteroid before converting it to metal and machinery, so it IS possible that deep in the core of Primus's body there is Organic material which in turn would mean Primus wanted to have a balance all along and the Oracle was just an extension of his will.
Fun fact: Oracle is also a evolved version of vector sigma (though no clue if this is still true anymore)
L pfp
@@lucaschannel726Basically All-Spark. İronic. Because the writers one who write Beast Machines later write Tfa. Which is great. I like Beast Machines.
A quick note: Silverbolt's new beast mode wasn't supposed to be an eagle, it was a condor. If i recall the reasoning behind it was to symbolize the shift in his personality from 'noble pillar of justice' to his new 'edgy and dark' outlook.
Though its kind of an interesting idea to 'flip the script' by making Blackarachina be the one who's trying to redeem Silverbolt, but i honestly feel that this one fell flat. Like the saying goes, "What was the artist's intent, and what was the artist's execution."
Silverbolt was also intended to be a Griffon at one point
The Ghost love how you can sort of shape his toy into a griffin like form, certainly looks better than…whatever the hell you call that thing, a t-posing rainbow chicken
Yeah according to one of the writers the development was intended to mirror the evolution of the Adam West Batman to the gritty dark knight we know today. I feel it could’ve been handled better
@@crimsondynamo615 SILVERBOLT IS NOT A CHICKEN!OH MY GOD WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU?! WHY CAN'T YOU JUST CALL HIM A CONDOR?!
@@kylecampbell565 It could have worked but the difference is the gritty batman didn't hate himself and constantly went on about it in an angsty way. He was just more serious and violent, which that could have been how they could tell Silverbolt he lost himself, because as corny as he was, his old self had strong morals and sympathy for others. They could have helped him develop past that self-loathing Megatron put him through.
Jetstorm is the only thing I really like about Beast Machines, but otherwise it's just alright.
Yes! He was my fav Vehicon. The only character on the show with an upbeat personality.
@@BullSession Also Brian Drummond.
I like RatTrap too. Especially that episode when he was hacked into old memory files in Cybertron's data base and was living the good old days.
The vehicons in general "no pun intended" are one of the best parts of the show. I always rooted for megatron and them.
I love beast machines
I often felt like Primal was the bad guy of this show. A religious fanatic looking to destroy Cybertron and make it a new.
Seriously I hated the monkey fanatic, even now knowing it was intentional. It was all "the will of the matrix" and he spent episodes idle when it didn't speak to him. The worst of this was When he found the Plasma Generator and was like "who cares if it's doomsday, the matrix wills it!"
Cheetor felt more like a leader than Primal ever did in this show!
Primal and Megatron both being two opposite extremist villains.
This show is perfect!
The balance between the technological and the organic was the only way to save cybertron.
Doesn’t help when you realize in the Headmasters anime, the Plasma Energy Chamber was what destroyed Cybertron, leaving it a broken uninhabitable husk. Had they kept that in Primal would have basically activated the Doomsday Machine from Doctor Strangelove.
@@crimsondynamo615 Actually what destroyed Cybertron was Scorponok blowing up Vector Sigma with plasma bombs. Either way, doesn't matter. We don't talk about Headmasters, and how in the face of Cybertron's imminent destruction, Galvatron of all people is the only one who tries to save the planet.
I hadn't watched the second or third season of Beast Wars, and was so confused when I saw the first epidsode of Beast Machines. but I sure as hell remember the toys and creepy animation
The animation was not creepy!
Finally, some good review of beast machines, thank you very much.
you're very welcome
I've always theorized that Beast Machines COULD exist in its own seperate timeline.
My reason being that when the Maximals were inside Transwarp space, Just as Megatron had freed himself and came out of the portal first it caused a ripple effect that split the Maximals into different timelines before they exited Transwarp space.
While it might not have a lot to support it, I do think that it could work if they explain that Megatron exiting by himself was an "improper" way of leave Transwarp space since he didn't have the Transwarp driver, which was still onboard the shuttle and what was also onboard the Axalon and Darksyde ships
So if it is possible that this did happen, it could open up the possibilities of other stories being told that continue the Beast Wars story line
Maybe we could get a timeline where the Maximals DID come out first before Megatron and were able to prepare, leading to a confrontation witht he Tripredicus Council.
Or another Timeline where both parties exited out, but Cybertron was under the rule of the Tripredicus and Megatron is acting as a third party aiding the maximals but also working to gain control over cyberton
This is honestly the 1 idea I had that allowed me to accept Beast Machines after I got to enjoy some of its story aspects later as an adult.
I actually think the same. Good old Multiverse Theory for the win.
@@michaelandreipalon359It is ALWAYS a win for any form of crap media. Think up your own canon/continuity.
It was a pretty ballsy opening by Megatron: "You know that war we had? Well, you lost. Prepare to deal with it."
The fact we don't have an official release of the soundtrack is a tragedy. It's easily the strongest point of the series for me.
Leftfield tracks will have to do for now.
me whos been on audacity for a while:
"its not much, but its honest work"
@@jackystarboi3152 let us know when you've made some progress with that, if i understand you right
In the sequel comics, it’s shown that some transformers do not like their technorganic bodies. But, this is what their God wants. The next step in their species evolution. Combining the two forms and becoming something more than just an amalgam of the two.
Huh. That would actually be a really *really* interesting plot line for a sequel to Beast Machines. The new factions could be made of up those who want to keep the technorganic bodies, and those who want to return to the old ways. I'd watch it.
P.S. I love your profile pic
I remember every time I gave this show a chance, something about it would just rub me the wrong way and I just couldn't get invested in anything going on.
yea me too, I watched it here and there, got mad at the Rhinox reveal than stopped
Same here. I keep trying to give it a chance and I keep rewatchkng it, but damn. Give me Beast Wars any day.
same here
@@Googaliemoogalie They did Rhinox dirty in BM.
same, just can't watch the whole series, unlike Beast Wars.
I must say this is a fair review and i agree that animation and background are a definitive improvement over the previous show. As for the characters ageing well, really they do not do as much.
,However even as I kid I knew this show felt wrong and now that I watched it as an adult I understand why know.
When it comes to story only the bare bones are keep and the rest clashes with what was previously explained and shown in the Beast Wars.
I must say the fact that Rhinox is the one turning evil is the thing that makes the least sense out of it all. In Beast Wars Rhinox was the most mature, most balanced both spiritually and mentally, not to mention the most loyal and trustworthy out of all the Maximals, kinda surprise Optimus never made him his second in command or the one n charge when he was not around... Maybe that is why he turned evil...
Either way it would have made more sense that Optimus to become the bad guy after all his fanaticism and the pressure of freeing he spark and the cryptic messages of the Oracle break his mind and makes him become the other end of the spectrum of extremist believing that only organic should live in Cybertron and thus becoming like a Noble/Savage of the series that would appear once in a while attacking both Maximals and Vehicons with organic weapons. With Optimus gone crazy it would have been Cheethor to take lead and have Rhinox help out with the crisis of faith they had after Optimus left. They could even put that after Optimus finally understand balance he confronts Megatron the same way he did in the finale and have the same result. Two opposites can create a positive, a new thing.
You could even have that Thrust/Waspinator is the one getting greedy and wants to rule in his own way considering that after Beast Wars Waspinator was tired of both sides not to mention in Beast Wars he tried at least twice to betray Megatron behind his back even going to team up with Dinobot. Not to mention you could have him fighting with his new self Thrust over how to rule and thus create a quite quirky relation and with this explain why would Waspinator be able to develop clever plans the same way Rhinox did disguised as Tankor.
Also still believe that Silverbolts role as the brooding warrior should have been played by Dinobot as he was always a brooding but honorable warrior. Have him debate if becoming techno-organic is the right thing to do, if betray his origins as a technological life form is truly the path the future had for him, have him continue to be scared of this new future since future is built by leaders not by warriors like him, not to mention he could have a sort of relationship with Nightscream sort of like a Mentor an apprentices having Dinobot put Nightscream in his place and have him become a better warrior and team mate. Not to mention I find it hilarious that Silverbolt finds his new forms hideous when considering that his previous from he was not that pretty to begin with. Honestly his robot form looks best, his beast form... Yeah what you say describes it perfectly.
Believe me, I'll have a lot to say about the characters in part 2
Yes
Guhhh yeah even at a young age I couldn’t get into their look.
I mean yeah, it’s radically different like you said.
I think the only ones I could tolerate where Vehicons, honestly the figures themselves where pretty fun too.
They looked out of place but they had some neat little features.
the maximals were nightmare fuel... yeesh
@@sub-zero5433 NO THEY WERN'T!THEY WERE PERCFECTLY FINE!
@@humangirl2122 bro did we watch the same show?
@@sub-zero5433 Yes we did and don't call me bro,I'm a female didn't you read my username?
@@humangirl2122 whatever bro
I'm not sure if I misheard, but in one episode, Tankor, when trying to find RatTrap, says "Where is that fucking mouse-bot" did anyone else mis-hear that?
If the characters from beast machines were more in line with beast wars and if the models came from the actual toys (which looked pretty cool), it would've been great. As it stands, it's just okay.
Phat Planet was a fucking BANGER of a theme.
I never got into "Beast Machines" I was one of the people that couldn't get behind the character designs. I hated Rat Trap's Look the most. I never liked the "newer" CG in any of their shows though. From Reboot season 4, Beast Machines to the whole "RainMaker" era CG stuff being pumped out in the 2000s, the characters were given a weird curvy and round looking design (the environments look great though). Like in Reboot, where they all had plumpy cheeks (face lol) and laugh lines, because they were trying to make the characters emote more than they needed to. To me, Reboot Season 3 and Beast Wars Season 3 had better looking character CG
This was that weird, sad time when Toy Story had taken over hardcore, all CG had to have full pupils-with-iris eyes all the time, even if they were robots.. all eyes had to be round, all faces had to be contorted and misshapen.. we're still living in that time now. No more fun abstraction, no expressive dot pupils or fun creative robot eyes, no facial proportioning..
Anyway good review here, you pointed out lots of good aspects I'd never really thought about.
I like Beast Machines.
The best sequel concept is if the Oracle turned out to be a Quintesson plant and the great reconfiguring would be cured from its bio-organic plague
I actually really enjoyed Beast Machines back in the day. It was cool to see a follow up to Beast Wars after that was over. Looking back at it all now, I think Beast Wars is better, but there is still some enjoyment for Machines as well. Though I still will never understand Megatron's line. "The Beast Wars are over, Optimus. You lost." Um... didn't they stop you from completely rewriting history, destroy your forces, and strap you to a space ship? How exactly did they lose? Unless he means in the sense that he now controls Cybertron, which I guess yeah they lost. But it still never made sense to me.
9:27 it sounds like Gary Chalk is channeling his inner Keith David.
“What kind of puny body is this” honestly that made me laugh hard with the camera pan to the shadow
I understand why people don't like beast machines but it's my personal favourite TF series, but nostalgia is a factor
It should be noted that Japan had already done a lot of retcon to have the Beast Wars make more sense in the general picture of how things worked in the overall history. Even though the whole Transformers series has multiple timelines that are incoherent and get confused with each other.
The whole "sparks not dying thing" was a Predicon feature and function... with the Maximals being an offshoot of the Decepticons when Scorpinok mk 1 noticed that Megatron mk2 kept getting killed by a bunch of animal mascots like Spike and Wheels and whatever those human pets the Autobots kept around were called. So it started with a bit of in fighting with the Decepticons to try to incorporate the power of those cute animal mascots that seemed to keep defeating them into how they do things.
This is right up there with a Magical Girl villain attempting to harness the power of love for the purposes of evil.
The Predicons were created as a weird fan works boner to Starscream. Yes, the legends and great deeds of Starscream had spread far and wide--as did his body screaming through the cosmos also did--and the Predicons were an attempt to have the immortal spark of Starscream be incorporated into the general design of the transformers.
With the retcons that Japan had each faction is an upgraded version of the previous one... the Decepticons an upgrade to the Autobots... the Maximals to the Decepticons and the Predicons an upgrade to the Maximals. Which... makes the events of Beast Machine make a bit more sense.
The whole Megatron Mk3 taking over Cybertron and removing total autonomy from the robots and having them be his personal Vehicons puts him as less incompetent than the Quintesson... and able to learn from History. Maybe not the correct lessons... but still he learned from history.
Most of the whole "Cybertron use to be organic" was already kept with seeds there with various interactions the transformers had when they met up with the Quintesson and whatever stupid bullshit the Quintesson were currently doing that would get them killed. The Quintesson being powered by Mad Science and Weird Science at the same time. Depending on the timeline--Unicron was either built for shits and giggles independant of Cybertron, built as revenge for getting kicked off of cybertron... or built and then rose up against them, so they enslaved cybertron to stop Unicron from trying to kill his previous Quintesson masters.
The Quintesson were also already the reason that all kinds of weird mad science type shit was sitting around the universe. As they would build shit--and either throw it out once they got bored of it... or have to run away once it gained sentience and tried to kill them.
Also... I'm not certain if you've seen this movie called The Matrix--but it is pretty cool... and at the time Beast Machine came out, I wanted to see more of The Matrix, and was still of the mind set that having sequels to The Matrix would be a good idea. Oh... how stupid of a stupid stupid dunder head of stupid I was to think sequels to The Matrix was not a stupid idea of stupidness befit to only pure stupidity. But Beast Machine also filled the "I want more of The Matrix" itch I had at the time.
Katrina Payne yeah I was thinking the Cybertron organic thing makes sense if you consider headmasters canon given Cybertron was destroyed in that show (personally I’m not a fan of the show but I consider at least that aspect canon). Japanese G2 has them rebuild Cybertron but I don’t believe they went into much detail maybe they colonized a reformatted an organic planet
_Beast Machines_ has many issues, but I did enjoy it *eventually.* While it aired, one of those issues I mentioned really hurt it. So let's just list them out... and those who have never seen _Beast Machines_ but still might watch it in the future, *here there be some spoilers!*
*1) "Everything You Know Is Wrong" Approach:* This normally works better the first time than the second time, because the first time it is a surprise *but not with _Beast Machines._ That is because the idea of one toy-based series connecting to the next wasn't common back then or now. So when you start watching _Beast Machines_ you really do wonder how much of _Beast Wars_ remained canon. While you get a mystery, it is one that seems likely to never be solved.
*2) Tackling... Er... Brushing Up Against Tough Subjects:* I give _Beast Machines_ credit for dealing with some weighty issues, and more fairly than you'd expect from a kids cartoon designed to sell a toyline *but* the results still aren't good. I honestly can't tell if I'd rather they glossed over it more or dealt with things like PTSD, religion (general), religion (environmentalism), etc. Even *knowing* what the writers were going for, *knowing* it wasn't an excuse for poor characterization, actually watching the episodes it usually still feels like exactly that. There are folks who are religious in a certain way, and who enjoy seeing fictional characters dealing with a fictional religion. Then there are the people who don't enjoy religion at all or enjoy *their* religion quite a bit, who are going to struggle with Primal's new path.
*3) Maximal Character Designs:* Going to be blunt, they look pretty bad. They're boring while trying to _pretend_ they are exciting or original, that the toys didn't resemble very well (this was due to redesigns, IIRC), and with the show itself going for a more "magical transformation" approach instead of even a cheating-G1-approach to transforming. That is three strikes against the toyline as well!
*4) Maximal Personality Disorder:* I get it, they wanted to take a more mature approach to how the Maximals would react to everything they experienced on Earth and now on Cybertron but... when you make *everyone* an unlikable - even if sympathetic - jackass that's hard. They were different _flavors_ of jackass, but all tasted bad. XP
*5) Pacing and Repetition:* The writers locked themselves into a repetitive plot early on, but when they finally allowed the characters to break free, it almost felt more like the story was jumping the rails than naturally progressing. You'd get long boring stretches with one or two status quo rewriting episodes. Worst of all, when new characters were finally added in the end, only one of the three got a decent chunk of screen time and it was... well...
*6) Botanica:* The _short_ version is that we Transformers fans ought to be pushing for the term "Mary-Sue" to be renamed "Botanica". Adding a "Plant-former" that references something else isn't bad, but the execution of this was. To begin with, I'm guessing a lot of the target audience was like me and had no clue about said reference; we just saw a stupid looking plant alien revealed to be a stupid-looking Transformer that got a different, stupid-looking form in that same episode, sounded like Miss Cleo, and tripled-down on the weird religious/pseudo-science environmentalism.
*7) Rushed/Budget-Crunched Finale:* They were running short on both time and money with the finale. Tying into a thing about missed opportunities, when the toy based on "big head" Megatron was released, some clever toy engineer found a way to make him backwards compatible with G1 Fortress Maximus. Imagine if *that* had been Megatron's final form for the series, and a re-release of G1 Fortress Maximus to go with it all!
*8) Missed opportunities:* Even now, it is pretty easy to come up with ideas, whether they play things safer than _Beast Machines_ or would have made it even more radical, that may have failed just as hard, but would have been appreciated for being more in line with typical Transformerdom *or* daring to be even more different. Here's a quick one; imagine if someone at Hasbro remembered how well combiners sell *and also* realized they had a series where they could do what they did with _Energon_ combiners *but lazier.* I'm saying make all the Vehicon drones limb pieces, and each General the torso. Kids buy four of the *same* Jet Drone to combine with Jetstorm to make "Jetstorm Maximus", or something like that. If it worked out, just release the same drone in four different colors and claim their specialized drones e.g. Speed Jet Drone, Power Jet Drone, etc. for the folks who want each limb to look different.
*_Whew!_*
That is a lot of negativity, but I'm not kidding; I like this series. Watching it the second time through, I may have known the plot twists, but I also knew that this wasn't lazy or bad retconning. I actually *love* Vehicons in general, and the twist when the true identity of each Vehicon general was revealed. I was sad how things progressed soon after that with two of the three (Thrust was handled well until the very, very end). Obsidian and Strika wowed me back then and I want them to be *main* characters now. If not one of them, then both of them. They just didn't get enough time to be in the series. A little torn about Noble-Savage, but I was thick and didn't realize who he was right away, then kind of wanted more of him (both versions). Other than Noble-Savage, I felt that way about all of these things even when the series first aired.
What changed is I started to like Rattrap in this series again; he's *so* close to pulling off what they were trying. Until the need to sell his toy meant he got the *worst* of the Maximal "bot" modes *and* they had him hook up with Botanica.
EVERYTHING YOU SAY IS WRONG!
@@humangirl2122 cmon bruh, his (or her) opinion aint the law, ya know? like what ya like, nobody's stoppin you.
@@enternamehere3759 Opinion's are like weapon's of Civil War.
Beast Hunters actually matches the show's premise and most of its plot.
The story of Beast Machines is undoubtedly underrated, with the obvious route "balance between beasts(sensibility) and machines(rationality)", and the more subtle route "democracy vs centralization of European history". On one hand, Optimus, being the religious messiah, represents the church. Cheetor, as the more practical commander, represents the kings. Many years after the fall of Rome, which could be interpreted as fall of Cybertron, Britain became the world's first modern democratic country, as its people followed the Church instead of their relentless king(James II), as in RELIGION defeated POLITICS, but later on more power fell onto the secular system while religion becoming more of a symbolic role, represented by the commanding role transfering from Optimus to Cheetor. On the other hand, Megatron literally bent an entire planet to his will, or shall we say, became the "emperor". This can be an example of Prussia, or later on the Deutsches Reich, and we knew where this is going. In short, the two seasons of Beast Machines is the representation and portrayal of an abridged two part European history: "pre-WW1" and "between-WW1-and-WW2".
As for tankor, he represented a never-seen-before technical centralization, which are utilized by scientists(and now AIs) to determine humanity's every action with the power of science. We only begin to see it as a possibility very recently, but if you want to know more about this "digital tyranny", check out an old Chinese sci-fi novel "The Three Body Problem". That book well describes and heavily praises digital tyranny, while despising and hostilizing democracy, so take it with a grain of salt.
Cheetor season one: Child
Cheetor season two: Early teen
Cheetor season 3: Late Teen/ Young Adult
Beast Machines Cheetor: Full blown Adult
He goes from Jr scout to Second in Command.
Who else found it funny that Megatron managed to achieve Optimus Prime G1 dream come true, all equals, in perfect harmony.
I find it funny that it's an extremly dark show, not just dark story wise, but dark in lighting too.
Hey man I just found your channel through your Gargoyles reviews and saw that you did Beast Wars and Beast machines as well. Thank you so much for these. Not a lot of people that I grew up with were fans of these shows, so I never really got to geek out about them with anyone. Your reviews of each season of these shows are fair and insightful. I just really appreciate what you've been doing.
Fun fact, when Beast Machines was first advertised, I legit thought it was a bootleg rip off show.
You know what I like about this series of Transformers, this and Car Robots (aka Robots in Disguise 2001), it's themeing between the two factions
cause having two sides that can transform into he same kind of transformation is cool and all, but seeing two different kinds transformations not only make the two sides interesting, but the series as well
>Beast Machines dynamics (Good Animals VS Evil Vehicles) gives the series an Environmental Protection theme (like Captain Planet but with robots)[also if they did an official dub of Beast Wars II, I bet they'd rename the Predicons the Decpticons (probably edit the symbol on them too)]
>Car Robots dynamics (Good Vehicles VS Evil Animals) give the series a Kaiju monster/Rescue force Hero feel to it (like what Japan likes to see in Live Action tv shows)[also in Car Robots, the Predicons really should've scanned Dinosaur Fossils if they wanted more and powerful Predicons on their side or maybe have Opitmus Primal from Beast Machines show up in the Car Robots universe with amnesia where, after sacrificing himself in the Beast Machines made him travel to the Car Robots dimension, he teams up with the Predicons and recruits more Predicons thinking that their mission is to stop animal abuse (it can even be a good excuse to have that Primal figure released under the RiD series)]
I just feel that way
It's a cool story idea but... There is no way I can EVER look past that animation. It keeps me up at night
Beast Machines would've been much better had Megatron really been separated from his mechanical self for good, and basically left an autonomous shell program that only had his goal to destroy organic life: AKA, Megatron returns to his ORIGINAL personality as a cunning, but fun villain forced to work with the good guys fighting a being that is effectively a soulless, ruthless clone of G1 Megatron's personality.
Edit: and basically just make the characters retextured versions of their original BW forms with maybe slight remodelling in their torsos and what not to make them less totally robotic looking.
yeah, the music of the show is pretty good
I was waiting for this. I never was able to catch this series in my youth in whole. Always in parts and episodes here and there. I think that gave me my poor opinion of it at the time. It looked different and nothing made any sense. But hearing that it was a lot more coherent and complete of a story certainly makes sense as to why it had people who liked it. Yet I did feel it was very overbearing in hammering its themes and message over your head. The environmental part of it in particular. I always enjoyed the spirituality aspect and how machines would have such a thing. Most of the time machines in sci-fi are more of an atheist's wet dream and I find that very dull, dry and frankly naive. As for the first theme though...
I've had to deal with some pretty staunch environmentalists in the field of philosophy (my degree) that are very pigheaded about it all. I also have a good friend who has underwent some serious studies in the field of forestry. They are more pragmatic than the usual ideological university student that gets churned out today. I think this exchange has a lot of light to shine on the themes being played up in Beast Machines. Namely the dilemma you bring up at about the 9 minute mark. What my friend told me, as a kill shot to the rabid environmentalist, was the situation of wolves in North America, namely very north in Canada. Wolves have coexisted with humans for tens of thousands of years. And wolves have been predated upon by humans for much of that time. The wolf population has adapted to resist a certain degree of human predation, since humans have always coveted the furs in particular. Staunch animal rights and environmentalists argue that the wolves ought to be left alone. However, you leave them alone and the downward pressure by humans is removed and the population booms. It then consumes all the deer and the whole system goes out of whack. It all plays to a sense of hubris on the part of humans that they are above nature. That they have done wrong by succeeding in the game of life now that humans are so dominate on the planet. All of this reminds me of how Primal thinks that what once was, is obviously better than what is now and has worked for billions of years. By trying to achieve this 'balance' you think are better than the system in place. Whether you think it is there by god's will, or merely what has been demonstrated to work by millions of years of evolution.
My two cents thus far.
Exactly. Ironically by forcing organic life and nature onto Cybertron, he's completely uprooting its current ecosystem.
So you're just some right-wing religious nutcase that hates nature? Got it. Also we kinda need more wolves now considering how gigantic the deer population is. Humans aren't wolves's natural predator
You understand wolves do fine in places without humans right? Populations naturally grow and shrink, only humanity makes other species extinct. And you saying all of that is demonstrating that same belief that you can dominate nature, same with being religious which stresses how above humans are than animals, which really isn't the case
So glad this is gonna be a two-parter. Just assumed you'd do one vid to cover both seasons.
Yea, my original plan was for this to be one video like Shadow Raiders was. Then the script got long...
When I was younger, I fucking hated that Rhinox randomly turned into a villain. Still hate it to this day.
Beast wars Silverbolt was amazing
I'm once again floored by how you take the words and thoughts right out of my head about yet another show from my childhood. I'm sharing this as always! Loved the puns in the script again lol
I can't say I was as amazed as I was with beast wars but still, im glad I got to see another series with some of the characters.
Rattrap's fav
8:44 i like to think the datatrax & core conscious get moved onto the spark when they die, like moving from Disk C: to Disk D:. That would explain it, as far as BW goes.
Best Machine certainly was different, but I liked it.
I still have my cheetor toy, somewhere...
Wait, Silver Bolt became an eagle?! I've spent years thinking they turned the poor guy into a buzzard!
Well I have a theory about why the Oracle wanted the Maximals to make Cybertron technorganic. In the second episode of the series when Optimus teaches the Maximals how to transform, he tells them that the first Transformers ever appeared on Cybertron had to learn how to transform their bodies instead of transformation being built in to them. This makes me think that Cybertron and the original Transformers once upon a time ago may have been technorganic. This is implied by what Optimus said about transformation once was a spiritual process rather than a built-in function activated by a command code.
I grew up in that sweet spot between G1 and Beast Wars, so I got to enjoy them both. All these years later and I've only just learned about Beast Machines. I don't think it ever aired in my country. I'm glad it didn't.
I always hated the art style, and felt the tone was too dark. It’s why I dropped out when Beast Machines aired.
I liked beast machines and enjoyed the series it was sad to what happened to Rhinox
Rattraps new form was the worst thing ever created. Rhinox being evil I wasn't a fan of...honestly they should of made Prime the bad guy...cause he sure as hell felt like a religious maniac with his oblivious cult members trying to force the planet to just jungle. The last season sort of fixed it with the explanation that it's supposed to be a balance with organic and tech but Primal still came off as a nut always blabbering about nature. Rhinox being the Zen master of the group made a lot more sense to me. Cheetor's design was the strongest out of the bunch, wish I still had his Beast Machines figure....
Rattrap's new form was just fine. Optimus Primal was a Hero and the balance between the technological and the organic was the only way to save Cybertron.
Yo, rhinox leading the maximals and optimus primal being the villain would've been sick. How did I not think of that!?
I'm fine with Rattrap's new form, even if it does look like that crappy robot from that one Canadian YTV PSA (The "I can remove my arm, you can't!" robot). The problem to me isn't the form itself, but how it functions. Rattrap basically can't fight in this new form, and they turned him into a "generic hacker" character. He went from being demolitions expert, to just being the brains of the group. While it's cool that he was smart, I miss his badass-itude. The only badass thing about this Rattrap is that he has an anthropomorphic flower as a girlfriend. Not many can say they had sex with a flower!
Flower sex....Conker's Bad Fur Day flashbacks.
Sadly, the flower Rattrap gets does not have titties like that flower. :C
I love beast machines!,it's a very underrated show!
Beast machines is an odd duck. I think it's best viewed all in one binge watch sitting.Silverbolt's personality change was awkward and seemed forced, especially because he seemed to be normal the first time his spark awakened but suddenly was darker the next time he came out. But it seems that Rhinox's "Dark Designs" nature was awakened because there is NO way he would naturally thow cheetor the way he did. We also see he's polarized against nature which he previously held in high regard. But The series had a lot of very fascinating aspects, and I really liked Nightscream and Botanica. Blackarachnia sorta became the voice of reason somehow, and Rattrap just started doubting everything. Good to see cheetor after his puberty in season 3 of BW (lol) finally maturing into someone who has a voice in major decisions even if he argues with Optimus waaay more than ever. It seems like the Maximals were as wayward in this as the Predacons were in Beast Wars, in that they all seem to have their own motives and secrets way more often
Beast Machines is best summarized as having some interesting ideas but suffering from terrible execution.
I've been thinking, what if the matrix's goal wasn't environmentalism, but making Cybertron self-sufficient by providing it with the means to produce a renewable fuel? (with the 'Environmentalism' merely being its attempt at making the Cybertronians capable of using said fuel)
In Japan, Cybertron used to be a TechnoOrganic paradise, but was Cyberformed by the Quintessons. The Oracle is actually Vector Sigma, who is also Primus. Japan really took the time to create their own, more fleshed out universe for the Transformers. tfwiki.net/wiki/Generation_1_cartoon_timeline_(Japan)
When I've first saw Silverbolt design in Beast Machines, i was like "Holy crap, it's terrible."
His design was not terrible!
@@humangirl2122 opinions! wow!
@@enternamehere3759 They are like weapon's of civil war
I used to poo-poo on Beast Machines but after watching the whole series upon getting both season boxsets, i've grown to like the series.
It's also one of the few TF series available complete in the UK along with G1 (obviously), the Takara Trilogy, RID-2001 & Prime in volumes. There's also the films but they're released everywhere.
For other series we've only got Beast Wars Season 1 & various volumes from the Unicron Trilogy, Animated and maybe RID-2015.
So thaaaats why they look so uncanny... the human eyes.
The whole inconsistencies between beast wars and Beast Machines with Sparks could be written off with the fact that they were off planet, and the core of Cybertron seems to be a collective of the individual Sparks.
the Rarity being able to maintain their sense of self outside of the bodies for extended periods of time without influence from Cybertron core Central Spark.
I liked Beast Machines while yes it had a lot of flaws especially with the writing. I think it still had some great character moments especially concerning Cheetor's development as a character. And a lot of the concepts were cool but some of them weren't executed that well. A reboot/remake of Beast Machines that fixes the flaws would be awesome.
Chetor was pretty much the best character in the sequel series. Second would be Nightscream.
I loved darker Feel, the music, 3D Animation, I even like that fact that they went away from the traditional robotic look. No complaints here!
Same
I liked Beast Machines in what it executed but I had some conceptual nitpicks too. For one the animation is really good from that point in the franchise. Everything looks sleak, and the almost cel-shaded look gave it an almost comicbook look to it, something that the Japanese Beast Wars show on Netflix show does that looks good. Though the lighting in beast machines looked better. Though something I hated was how they got rid of all the guns.
Though I do like that unlike Beast Wars its plot is a lot more serialized. Its more focused, tighter and each event feels more like consistent progression as opposed to the episodic nature of Beast Wars where you couldn't always tell what episode was filler and what episode was plot. It also wasnt as comical sure but I'd rather them take their story seriously to keep consistency. So I do overall like it, even with nitpicks here and there. I just hate the lack of guns and the better designs the transmetals had, who were already technorganic. I mean they kept saying Megatron had organic parts, even though his beastform looks entirely metal.
Wow, the visuals in beast machines is a huge step above beast wars.
Yeah, too bad they didn't do anything good with it
Beast Machines: Why you don't fix what wasn't broken.
The character designs I not a fan of BUT the storylines I appreciate now as an adult
I like it but my broblem is make them weak against drones
I think Beast Machines is a better show then people give it credit for. One thing I have to hand to Mainframe is that they rolled the dice and tried something new. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Beast Machines I respect for taking risks. Also it has themes that were more mature and thought provoking then most children shows. Though I find the embargo on weapons was a bad move. I feel the most powerful way to show why violence and war are bad things is to show their consequences. Also I rather liked the soundtrack for Beast Machines, very well suited to the show. I think the biggest reason why people panned the show at the time was it was released so soon after beast wars, where the show was so beloved and people simply wanted more of the same. I definately like beast wars more, But I still enjoyed Beast Machines.
The part near the end where you sang along with the chase theme was gold 😂
It is humorous that their production decrying extremism was formed from the extremist principle to cut out the past and avoid references. Obviously there is little appeal in a pure rehash, but as the guiding principle goes, moderation in all things. By burning so many bridges, they probably turned off as many or more people than they would have by just treading the same well-worn ground.
I enjoyed Beast Machines. The theme fit with a techno feel, and it fit as a continuation from BW in that Megs didn’t like his troops
Great video. Beast Machines was dark but I liked it! Still waiting for Hasbro to release this and Beast Wars in HD on Blu-ray.
Unfortunately, that's unlikely to ever happen. Word on the street is that Mainframe's original animation files from this era have been lost :(
Interesting to me is how I enjoyed all of Mainframes' earlier work more than the later ones. It wouldn't have happened without The Crimson Binome S01 E07 when Dot Matrix starts a business relationship with CB after a spirited dialogue on the challenges of being an entrepreneur. Its an interesting nuance to have animated characters that are private citizens. So much so that I thought 'Reboot' was meant as an educational program to help businesses startups rebound from bankruptcy.
At first I was kinda nervous about watching Beast Machines. With the type of reputation it got in the fan base and the strange character designs. But you know what. I’m glad I saw it front to back. I just finished the final episode yesterday leaving me satisfied. Not only did the designs quickly grow on me but I also feel like everything that happened between the characters and how they behaved made sense because of the situations that happened when they arrived and what was currently happening within the show. But. That’s only my opinion. Lol
I feel that the toys made for the Beast wars and Beast Machines in those days are of much better quality than the current toys made today for transformers.
I watched this particular show as a veeery young kid and i remember loving it, then i kinda forgot it existed until this video reminded me of it, that's about 20 sodding years xD So thanks for that! Brought out a few nice memories along with it.
You're very welcome!
Thank you. I love the ending botch.
I only watched Beast Wars when I was a kid since my brother told me it sucked and it was a waste of time. I was surprised at how much I ended up liking Beast Machines, it's most likely my favorite piece of Transformers media of all time.
It was really cool to see how the Maximals had been affected by their battles on Earth, like Cheetor maturing and becoming a leader in his own right, how depressed Rattrap got after he had been a key asset during the war and his transition into becoming a better person and the Maximals' technician, how Optimus had been deemed worthy by the Oracle to carry out its plans and his great sacrifice for the greater good towards the end... the list goes on.
Granted there were some parts that I didn't get at first, like how Megatron had gone from evil jerk with a side of hamminess to being a ruthless megalomaniac, but it didn't take me very long to get over it. The new Megatron was just straight up evil with no two ways about it, and I like that. It's not everyday that you get to see a villain being evil for the sake of it lately.
Love these retrospectives, always look forward to them!
I loved this series equally as much as Beast Wars. I was the target youth it was designed for. I admit that when I first started watching it, I felt it wasn’t the same characters who I loved but kept watching since I was a loyal fan. As Beast Machines progressed, I began to realize what this show was. What the story was trying to say. I love a dark story and felt I grew along with the writing style. More things were at stake. No time for funny stuff or jokes because they were trying to survive in a never ending war
If Star Wars back in the day had the "Denning-verse" (consisting of novels like the Dark Nest trilogy, Legacy of the Force, Millennium Falcon, X-Wing: Mercy Kill, and Fate of the Jedi), then Transformers had this: they're good in their own right, it's just that they shouldn't have been sequels to already good and otherwise well concluded storylines (the New Jedi Order series and Beast Wars respectively).
Rinox had it right, mechanical machine bodies are better than transorganic non robotic boddies
@@BasedVegeta
You got that right.
Also we don't need to be organic/soft and squishy to be biological. You see biological means living and any creatures made up of cells are biological beings. We are made out of living metal; which in return is made out of celluar structures. This makes us biological beings when you think about it. The more I think about it the more I think about the fact that we aren't robots, but being who happen to look like one and not robots as you humans would think of. I kinda like being biological because it makes us different from the Earth bots. Even in the g1 era we aged and came from a process called techabiogenesis ( early Marvel comics). No robots aged or came from natural process.
@@BasedVegeta
To tell the truth I just got the begin made out of metallic cells from TFwiki, so I'm not for sure if that's true. I do know that our metal is very different from Earth metal.
@@BasedVegeta
My bad. I meant to say that I wasn't for if we are made out of matellic cells because I got that from TFwiki and I stated that we ( assuming) made out of metallic cells. Not for sure if I can fully trust that site. I wasn't referring to us being silicon base or how we went from animalistic forms to techno ones. I was doubting TFwiki not you.
@@BasedVegeta that shit lame, who came up with that?
Thank you. Nobody ever talks about how primal forcing his bio tech forms on everyone isn't much different from megatron yet we are supposed to think he's right. Waspinator didn't want to be changed
Screw Beast machine, Beast Wars was the real show.
Change is good but when a style is sacrificed in an attempt to breath new life into something. That's when problems emerge
I say Beast Machines was good in many aspects but Beast Wars is far better, even with its simplicity, thanks to all the love put into it by all who worked on it.
In part yes. @K
@@SkyStarNova The were just fine.
I like them both equally. In fact both are my favourite Transformers shows.
I remember really having trouble getting into Beast Machines when it was originally airing, but appreciating it more when it was rerunning a few years later. Plus it was very continuity heavy at a point where my family was moving a lot, so I missed chunks of story at the time.
The only thing about BM I didn't like was character design and how everything from energy beams to smoke looked like liquid.
Agreed.
Why does Rattrap have friggin' wheels on his robot mode?
I like balance V Extremism, but they did a poor job actually putting it into practice. It could have been better
I roared out laughing at 7:34
3:42 Still one of the best Beast Wars moments.
Three words comes to mind when I watched this show as a child on Fox Kids: I. WAS. BORRRRRRRRED-duh! #thatswhenIstartedwatchingDigimon
I honestly think the only way that Cybertronians can see and touch the Sparks of their people is through a strong connection to Primus.