I'm not sure if you are aware of the newspapers. I can't remember the issue number, but it was while you play as John. You see on the newspaper that Dutch Van der Linde's wherabout was unknown and how legendary the gang was. So much so that that had songs written about the gang.
@bogymanthedark there's arguments floating around that says he never wanted to get out If the blackwater robbery worked, the gang would've had 100k (if I remember right) to spend, more than enough to go anywhere they wanted but dutch secretly didn't want to. Dutch is dreaming of a "free world" almost a worldwide wild west if you want and the blackwater money couldve helped setting up a peaceful life somewhere. Only dutch wanted to inflict damage on the government as much as possible, he wanted to be on the run forever and just burn down the government
@@bogymanthedark It’s not that he doesn’t have the money it’s that he doesn’t actually have the intention to leave, he loves the chaos and gets off to the thrill of being a wanted man and stealing from “the man”. This is why Dutch literally lies about a boat being lined up when in reality there was never a boat lined up and it’s almost convenient for him that everything went wrong like Hosea dying because it gave him the excuse to keep up his game
1 Corinthians 15:1-4 Christ Died for our sins according to the scriptures, and that He was Buried, and that He Rose Again the Third Day according to the scriptures. Accept Christ as Savior and BELIEVE in Him and what He did for YOU at the Cross. Your next breath is NOT guaranteed, and if you die in your sins without being saved, you will spend Eternity in Hell separated from God. Jesus paid the ultimate price for our sins so we could spend Eternity with Him in Heaven, God is the source of LOVE. Through Jesus your sins are Forgiven, Fellowship with God The Father is Restored, and you’ll be on the narrow path through Christ to Eternal Life ( Heaven ). Jesus is the ONLY WAY to The Father, and the ONLY WAY to Heaven, make the right decision TODAY!!!!! for your soul depends on it. Christ is Coming back for us so much SOONER than any of us Think!!!!. The Rapture of the Church is IMMINENT, keep looking up and Don’t be afraid about what’s happening or about what’s coming, God is in Full control, Trust in Him and have Faith. God Bless you all and I’ll see you in the clouds with Christ, and at the Wedding Supper of the Lamb VERY VERY SOON!!!!!.
In comparison to real life outlaws, they were exceptionally bad. Going through some of the history of these people in real life, I couldn't find a kill count over 30. Thats a slow day for the Van der Linde gang.
Yeah, it's a Rockstar game. In both Red Dead and GTA, the bad guys usually win. At least most of the time. It's a heightened reality. Things are much worse than IRL.
Well yes, but taking into consideration "gameplay kills" isn't fair. It's a game THERE MUST BE FIGHTING, if we only fought 30 people, it would've been a boring game.
@tiago3180 True. I think there's a great balance between reality and game. In game my kills are probably in the thousands. In real life, someone like Arthur or Dutch would probably be 100ish give or take another 20. It's like with Bethesda and their maps. Sure in game there's only 4 houses and 15 people for most towns, but its scaled down to 1/10th of game.
@@tiago3180 What's interesting though is that, with how much the gang remarks about the disastrous events that followed them, like all the shooting and stuff, it kinda creates a consistency between the game and the gameplay. Not only as a reminder of the Van Der Linde gang's skills, but also the heat following them relentlessly, I never felt like there was so much of a ludo narrative dissonance in RDR2 except with John at the epilogue since, some of his actions and the events he partake in kinda over skirts what he would've done as a character.
@@tiago3180 idk, with how skillfully this story is presented, it couldve ultimately only had 5 deaths in it and it couldve been just as engaging and riveting a story. just has to be written well with power intentionally put behind the deaths you see.
It’s actually a random mission with Javier to rescue bill from bounty hunter’s and he said do you not know who Dutches boys are there coming for me. He spoke like there notoriety as a gang was very high
I'd estimate Dutch is sitting at a bounty of $25'000. Hosea, $10'000, and Arthur obviously $5'000. This would have Dutch valued at just shy of 1 million.
I'm wondering if that $1,000 bounty for Dutch was just for strawberry and not statewide, in 1899 News traveled slow and some towns didn't even know or get the news like we see in the game
@@Totally_tobiI'd say dutch has a bounty between 7500 and 10000 dollars. Arthur is considered the right-hand man of dutch and the enforcer of the gang, and he's at 5000.
Just because Arthur’s bounty is 5000 doesn’t mean Dutchs automatically would be higher, Arthur would naturally have a higher bounty anyways since he’s the gangs enforcer and therefore is getting involved in way more crimes and shootouts than Dutch. Just like how in game when you’re bounty hunting Skinner members Elias Green, one of the top enforcers of the gang, has a significantly higher bounty than Otis Skinner, who’s literally one of the Skinner Brothers
And we don't know the date of the newspaper since it's just a single scrap. The Blackwater Massacre surely must've racked up the amount of all the known gang members by quite a lot and that's not counting what happened in Chapters 2-6.
Dutch cares in every way about the gang. I'd say tho as he had to decide between becoming a monster or giving up his past dreams, he has sadly decided the first option. It was too late until he realised what that option costs
Most of the members of the gang we see in the game have only been there for a couple of years at this point, so I'm assuming that the gangs "golden years" is when they didn't have so many non-outlaws to care for. Every member would've been deadly outlaws who stole and murdered, not debtors, children, men of faith and petty theives. Assuming my theory is correct, it could be assumed that the Van Der Linde Gangs biggest downfall was that they were no longer a gang of outlaws, but a community of from dirt, bottom of the barrel people who pissed off the government.
Thats what I always felt, capable members of the Gang had to look out for those who arent capable to look after themselves, pretty much a burden, imagine a Gang with just capable fighter like Arthur, John (if he left his family), Dutch, Javier, Bill, Charles and Micah and maybe even Hosea, they wouldnt have much problem moving quickly after commiting crimes and would always be one step ahead of law, idk thats just what I feel like
@@terminator9489 And that’s not at all what he did later having a gang comprised of like 30 people even more than the Van der Linde gang. He wasn’t unhappy about the numbers he was unhappy about how tightly knit the gang was and how they were practically family, of course he can’t outright say that so he says they have too many freeloaders as a cover up. The reality is that Micah doesn’t want to be part of a family he wanted to be part of a gang who would do almost anything for money, but the gang had morals which also made Micah an outcast since he had none and was at odds over morality with other members like Hosea and Arthur. So it also makes sense that later Micah has a full gang of about 30 or more murderers and other degenerates that won’t think twice about morals and do what he wants
@@thesilentassassin1167Sure having an elite small gang that could move quickly is pragmatically speaking amazing but the issue is it goes against Dutch's philosophy Dutch is a political leader as much he is a gang leader he consistently talks about gang being free people and he's disdain for authority of uncle sam
@@josephstalin2606but Micah’s large gang consisted of shooters like the O’Driscolls. No women and children to hold them back or look after. Micah operated like Colm. Dutch and Hosea built a family
I think Micah kept that bounty on Dutch because he was looking to collect and happened upon someone else going to kill Dutch and Micah had a change of heart after saving him.
@@ict113090 agreed. I'd like to see them tell a redemption story from Mac's perspective. Like he redeemed himself in the end in a story the others didn't know about. I'm sure they could pull it off. He actually escapes in the end alive. He just couldn't meet back up with the gang or he'd have died.
Rockstar, make this happen; the story of Red Dead 3 being a prequel to Red Dead 2 set in 1869-1899 about the Van der Linde gang origin formation and their moral code, Dutch's early young days before the gang and his love connection with Annabelle. Missions being the acquaintances of everybody in the gang, Hosea, Arthur, John, the Callender brothers, Jenny, Sean, Lenny, Javier, Bill and Micah, robberies of banks and trains, holding people ransom, stealing from the rich and giving to the poor, association with Colm O'Driscoll turning into the bitter rivalry, killings of Colm's brother and Annabelle and the failed boat heist in Blackwater during 1899. The game should have 3 playable characters, prologue parts 1 & 2, 2 chapters, epilogue parts 1 & 2. Title might need to change from "Redemption" to "Revolution" or Redemption III: Blackwater in order to fit the story better. Dutch as the character of the prologue - beginning Mac & Davey as the characters of the chapters and epilogue - middle & end Red Dead Redemption 3: Blackwater (gang formation) 1869-1899 Red Dead Redemption 2 (gang downfall) 1899-1907 Red Dead Redemption 1 (gang extermination) 1911-1914 Therefore the entire Van der Linde gang story is shown visually and all the dialogue from the previous games has been visualised. Come on Rockstar! Make my dream a reality since 2014 when I played Red Dead 1 and 2020 when I played Red Dead 2
@@seanprentice0607 I would love that. As long as this group of characters remains idc what they do. These characters and story arc are too good to end there.
@@mnmfreak502 too true. Anybody who says or thinks Red Dead 3 doesn't need the Van der Linde gang back are not TRUE fans in my opinion. Here's why because all the dialogue that comes from 1 & 2 that has and I stress the word HAS to be shown to the world visually. Cause there's plenty about Dutch and Hosea's story to show, Mac & Davey Callender I'd like to get to know. Hell I even emailed Rockstar my idea just to get their attention about my idea hah
I’m curious as to how feared any gang was around that time. Communication was much slower than it is today so I don’t know if they would be feared or even known until they hit their score and vanish.
I would say the golden era for the gang;s height was probably in 1899 just for the gangs PERSONAL prosperity, I'm talking about 5 or 4 months before the blackwater heist, with soon to be some of the most well known and feared members, like micah and charles joining, alongside the recruitment of Jenny and Lenny. As for what time was seemingly the best for the day to day enjoyment of life? the years following Arthur joining the gang, so about 1880-1885, as it started as the 3 pals going on bank, stage, train, boat, and home robberies, with noone really on their backs. Plus the recruitment of Grimshaw and John and Pearson
I mean Arthur having higher Bounty makes sense tho. He was the deadliest person in the gang after the death of the Callander Brothers. If they caught Arthur or killed him, they probably knew the Gang would crumble. Its also highly likely that they wabted Arthur to be their pawn like what they eventually did with John in RDR1
That doesn’t explain why Milton was willing to let Arthur and the rest of the gang go just to hang Dutch. It’s clear that Dutch would’ve had the higher bounty
Man it’d be nice to get a rdr3 where you play as mac or davey or both. They have a story that seems could be good and in depth and they’ve given us just enough information about them to make us like them. Their deaths in blackwater aren’t really even known about too well, but it could be worked out that your moral bad ending ends with the brothers dying trying to steal or hide the money and the moral good ending being a sacrificial death to get the rest of them out- probably after seeing Jenny get shot, could be a love triangle situation there for side narrative. They were known to be brutal and aggressive which is what we’d need for a character in the prequel because let’s be real Dutch and Hosea would be boring to play as, they’re yarn spinners, they’re not the guy that gets sent out to “handle” a situation. This would allow us to see some of the earlier years of the gang when they were really outlaws plus the development of the gang adding dependencies and even seeing Micah come in toward the end and maybe they knew he was no good and they were the first ratted victims of Micah’s, perhaps that’s why everything went bad at blackwater to begin with, Micah may have been trying to set the gang up from the get go- he could be a government double agent from way back, who knows. Either way, a mac and davey story would be a dream for rockstar fans if done right, and has a plenty of potential to be pulled off.
i love your videos & the content you create i just wish rockstar pumped out content for this game like how they do for gta 5, rdr2 is a great game its just doesnt have any online components that really matter to me i like the pvp modes, i liked grab bag, from rdr1, i like the old mexican standoff how it was "waltons gang vs dutches gang" "you" - then everybody drew their starting pistols & won in the show down or lost in the showdown
Lord shimura huh? I got a video coming up on Kazumasa within the next few days. Funny enough…i just completed the mafia remake. Im toying with a few ideas on the mafia series not too sure where itll head
If you’re talking about the Natives in Tall Trees then they absolutely were, that’s why Ross had the army deploy to Blackwater and they had a huge battle on the plains and took it into Tall Trees and Dutchs fort. So by rdr1 Dutch is way more dangerous than he ever was in rdr2 especially since he’s at the front of everything unlike in rdr2 he’s in the shadows pushing Eagle Flies to do his bidding meanwhile he only does all that to get the oil bonds from Cornwalls factory
The mentioning of detail to what the Callandar boys were like just makes me wish that if they were to make a prequel to RDR2, we’d get to play as them(either just Mac or possibly even both of them with a GTA V styled character switcher). Maybe get to see the Black Water Massacre, as well as that bar fight in Deer Creek where we as the player would actually have to take down up to 15 guys. Maybe making it a non-Redemption game, Red Dead R(something else), since neither of them ever had a Redemption. Then playing as Arthur in the Epilogue in that time between the massacre and RDR2(not sure how that would work though with how little there is). Just a thought really, it would be neat though, then to play Mac in a final showdown as he gets split up from the gang at Blackwater, killing several dozen lawmen in the process getting more and more shot up, until ultimately being too hurt and dying, Milton showing up around then. Would be a neat story, and another opportunity to explore some characters we don’t even know to make something interesting out of them.
You just explained why it wouldn’t work. Rockstar would have to change their formula entirely by making it a more linear game like TLOU rather than a free roam one like the ones Rockstar always made. Not to mention it’s literally stated in game that Mac and Davey died as violent outlaws and “that’s all they ever were and will be” and that’s why Arthur was different because he knew he was dying and therefore was able to redeem himself. So idk why some people think Mac had some final showdown where he saved Arthur and embraced him before staying behind as if he would have time for any of that amidst the chaos. As far as we know Mac was shot up and tortured and then killed, there’s absolutely no redemption in dying during a town massacre that your own gang is responsible for
I dont think they were very well known until Blackwater. If you take in account that Dutch had a $1000 bounty on him. We have to assume that was before Blackwater and Arthur was $5000 after. Now Jessie James had a $10000 bounty almost 20 years before. Thst tells me that the gang used to be really good at hiding there tracks or they was just to small for anyone to care about
I think the $1000 bounty on dutch was accurate and up to date. He rarely actually participates in the dirty work. Arthur does all the real work, while dutch is more of a figurehead, sitting in camp and puffing cigars. While he may be the one ordering the gang around, he's not the one that gets seen committing the crimes.
I think the using outdated tactics and their way of life being outdated and people who control their sphere of influence poking fun of them is a testament of how you can never seem to make money on jobs you do with the gang.
Out of topic but do you think there’s a possibility that Rockstar could fix john‘s epilogue model? It’s literally the only reason I don’t wanna finish my playthrough
Honestly at this point I highly doubt it. Seems like an extremely low priority since GTA VI is being worked on and it seems like this game has pretty much been abandoned by them
@@chillhouse2490 funny enough if it does happen after GTA VI i think a decent number of people will return to the game and replay the epilogue just for that accurate nostalgia factor
I don't think your evaluation that John came back during the gang's time in Blackwater is strictly correct. Arthur emphasises that Jack was REAL young when John left the gang and John states he left because he didn't want to believe that Jack was his, which leads me to believe John left in 1895 and returned in 1896
At around the 9min mark you comment on Abigails joining of the gang for a reason I doubt it's the reason you think based on other voice lines in the game
They weren't the most feared gangs, there were a nuisance. They robbed lot of rich folk, and trains, stagecoaches. Not exactly dangerous, also they don't threaten people, it would bring attention to them. The only reason why there rewards are high is because they robbed too much rich people, and goods. If anything, the O'driscolls would be feared, they have bigger numbers, known for their brutality. We can definitely say the O'driscoll boys were around longer, they're peak isn't told to us. But from what we can see, they are at their peak, Dutch always cared about being mysterious, Colm didn't. He makes his gang well known, uniforms, accents, and not caring about being seen in public
What i never understood is why the game punishes you for Robbing stores and stuff (people to like on the road) Correct me if i'm wrong but doesn't the gang do the same thing? They robbed a train with people because they were rich, arthur beat up and killed the people in that bank in valentine. kinda silly. Arthur says to sadie "we only rob folks who rob other people, these guys are just trying to get by" those people had families and arthur even robbed and killed them for being rich. Also you lose honor for killing rapist and defending yourself
literally the most feared gang in all US, heck even if they have small numbers, they can fucking kill hundreds lmfao we have the best gunslinger the great arthur morgan, john marston, dutch and micah (yeah hes a bitch but still good shooter).
I believe let's see Arthur was a boy I guess 12 when meet Dutch an Hosea an then it was 5 years they meet John as a boy around 9 years old I guess. So I guess the the real beginning of the van der lindes gang was slow building up but when Arthur was in his 25 an John in 16 when being the enforcer's Arthur the top 3rd in line behind Hosea but was there enforcer boss with John under Arthur number 2 but then u got the bothers that came in then bill an Javier Shawn but then u have to throw in the colm o Driscoll gang that eather was part as soldiers of the van der Linda's gang I think yes Dutch an Hosea gang at the time was low key like Hosea like they money quality at some time an at the time all is well but something's happen with Dutch an the o Driscoll brothers that was the Van der lind gangs soldier or like Dutch sead cole had expendable soldiers to use but Dutch choose the best to be his loyal enforcer's under Arthur leadership i guess but if he struggled with the o Driscoll brothers doing there own thing but not following the rules of the van der lind gangs structure or organization. So yea maybe the van der lind gang was strong enough an was wise enough to have a organize gang at the time an with o Driscoll brothers as leaders of soldiers under them but was at the time was under Dutch and Hosea leadership an Arthur as there Enforcer boss to take care of things when need too an the o Driscoll brothers an there soldiers was like any other gang with soldiers do take out competition or secure territory with there business to make money for the van der lind gang operations. Then way before the black water thing happens something happens that mostly like Dutch an his o Driscoll brothers his I guess Captains of the expendable soldier's was eather getting wrong deal or something but then Dutch killed Cole brother should killed both of them probably would have a lot of soldier under Dutch but i guess like his plans goes he got one brother dead but the other eather got away or was not there but eather way cole got his revenge on dutch wife then after that cole took all what's left his soldiers an made the o Driscoll gang an only took some ideas from Dutch an Hosea that he thinks was good for him but keep his soldiers as expendables but I relay wounded if o Driscoll gang was very much more dum or was they have a system but that's another story.. So after the deaths of one o Driscoll brother an Dutch wife an now we have a Van der lind gang was big an bad an was more like a battalion size but low key but become under a platoon of loyalty member's but could not stay at one place for long to make money like how Hosea probably did for years with more time but after the problem with there o Driscoll brothers soldiers no longer there they could make less money making to give to those in need Plus there gang members pay it seems the van der lind gang's was organized at some point hell look like making lots money an had time Dutch an Hosea got wife's an Arthur had a wife an a 6 year old child doing those time so I think more to the story long before the black water thing an for the six states thing u ever think maybe the van der lind gang control all six states at one time because the O Driscoll brothers was there captain with expendable soldiers with them the van der lind gang was strong an deadly but quite like Hosea wanted but took probably 5 years to control an build up the money making in all 6 stats then some time later when van der lind gang going well Hosea wife died an under the time Arthur kid was born an his wife an his son turn 6 years old was killed an i guess after two years later one O Driscoll brother killed an Dutch wife killed then the break up an lost so much more money an going to war with O Driscoll gang The van der lind gang starts losing an more law enforcement coming after them both but then the black water comes big score but Hosea an Arthur plan would work but I think Dutch was no longer going to Waite with o Driscoll gang on them an law enforcement coming he i think became more recluses then smart after Mitch 6 months Early join the van der lind gang was more about quickly getting money not caring about being smart or how to get things low key like mostly the van der lind gang did have done many many years ago but now all done being low key just recluses one big score an move on do it again an again but after black water now being hunted by law enforcement mostly an o Driscoll gang some times but kill each other when have the chance.. So again the van der lind gang rise an fall an we know about the fall of the o Driscoll gang but not RISE but if Rock Star makes a red dead redemption 3 it would be interesting to see the RISE an Fall of the van der lind gang's an the story they tell before the black water thing personally that would be the very last mission years an years later the Truth about how it happens after all Hosea an Arthur was not there at that time.. again it would be a great game if they take there time an go steps by step in the end u as Dutch an Hosea an maybe John an also Yung Arthur before he what 35 years old in red dead redemption 2. It be nice to understand more about the van der lind gang an the o Driscoll brothers an others was not seen much or was killed before the beginning the Red Dead redemption 2 beginning story plus more.. I think if we think about it at one time the van der lind gang an o Driscoll gang was one an very strong but I think just like Dutch was the boss say Hosea was I guess under boss an Arthur was number 3 in Lin but was boss of the enforcer's he chose the best an then I guess John was Arthur number 2 in the enforcement group plus u got the O Driscoll brothers as the van der lind gang's captains of there soldiers an so much you could do as player in the red dead redemption 3 then RDR 2 ever u could do but much much more.. i guess we see how rock star does RDR 3 mostly like it be very different but we see but i hope it blows RDR 2 out of the water as much i love that game it would be sad if RDR 3 Fails to over take RDR2 or tie it up but be sad that RDR 2 be still number one an RDR 3 don't get closed but goes in Woke crap or just suck again we see good luck rock star keep making good games RDR 2 still damn good i am hooked an can't put Dawn.
![Sleeping on yandere best friends lap as she praises you [Whispering] [Sleep aid] [ASMR] [F4A]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/_JaFtS22mmQ/mqdefault.jpg)
![Sleeping on yandere best friends lap as she praises you [Whispering] [Sleep aid] [ASMR] [F4A]](/img/tr.png)
I'm not sure if you are aware of the newspapers. I can't remember the issue number, but it was while you play as John. You see on the newspaper that Dutch Van der Linde's wherabout was unknown and how legendary the gang was. So much so that that had songs written about the gang.
Yeah that’s true , they were famous as hell. Dutch was arguably the most wanted man in America in universe , guy was the wild west ben lad€n lol
@@Kira-xk2rf and somehow he still doesn't have enough money to get out.
@bogymanthedark there's arguments floating around that says he never wanted to get out
If the blackwater robbery worked, the gang would've had 100k (if I remember right) to spend, more than enough to go anywhere they wanted but dutch secretly didn't want to.
Dutch is dreaming of a "free world" almost a worldwide wild west if you want and the blackwater money couldve helped setting up a peaceful life somewhere.
Only dutch wanted to inflict damage on the government as much as possible, he wanted to be on the run forever and just burn down the government
@@bogymanthedarki wish me giving the camp 500k from all the gold I mysteriously found ment something 🤦🏻♂️
@@bogymanthedark It’s not that he doesn’t have the money it’s that he doesn’t actually have the intention to leave, he loves the chaos and gets off to the thrill of being a wanted man and stealing from “the man”. This is why Dutch literally lies about a boat being lined up when in reality there was never a boat lined up and it’s almost convenient for him that everything went wrong like Hosea dying because it gave him the excuse to keep up his game
This guy is pumping out Red Dead videos faster than Dutch can say “I have a goddamn plan”
😂
He puts in work 😂
Faster than rockstar put effort into any actual updates
1 Corinthians 15:1-4 Christ Died for our sins according to the scriptures, and that He was Buried, and that He Rose Again the Third Day according to the scriptures. Accept Christ as Savior and BELIEVE in Him and what He did for YOU at the Cross. Your next breath is NOT guaranteed, and if you die in your sins without being saved, you will spend Eternity in Hell separated from God. Jesus paid the ultimate price for our sins so we could spend Eternity with Him in Heaven, God is the source of LOVE. Through Jesus your sins are Forgiven, Fellowship with God The Father is Restored, and you’ll be on the narrow path through Christ to Eternal Life ( Heaven ). Jesus is the ONLY WAY to The Father, and the ONLY WAY to Heaven, make the right decision TODAY!!!!! for your soul depends on it. Christ is Coming back for us so much SOONER than any of us Think!!!!. The Rapture of the Church is IMMINENT, keep looking up and Don’t be afraid about what’s happening or about what’s coming, God is in Full control, Trust in Him and have Faith. God Bless you all and I’ll see you in the clouds with Christ, and at the Wedding Supper of the Lamb VERY VERY SOON!!!!!.
“I had a GodDamNn PllaanNnNn!!”😂
In comparison to real life outlaws, they were exceptionally bad. Going through some of the history of these people in real life, I couldn't find a kill count over 30.
Thats a slow day for the Van der Linde gang.
Yeah, it's a Rockstar game. In both Red Dead and GTA, the bad guys usually win. At least most of the time. It's a heightened reality. Things are much worse than IRL.
Well yes, but taking into consideration "gameplay kills" isn't fair. It's a game THERE MUST BE FIGHTING, if we only fought 30 people, it would've been a boring game.
@tiago3180 True. I think there's a great balance between reality and game. In game my kills are probably in the thousands. In real life, someone like Arthur or Dutch would probably be 100ish give or take another 20. It's like with Bethesda and their maps. Sure in game there's only 4 houses and 15 people for most towns, but its scaled down to 1/10th of game.
@@tiago3180 What's interesting though is that, with how much the gang remarks about the disastrous events that followed them, like all the shooting and stuff, it kinda creates a consistency between the game and the gameplay. Not only as a reminder of the Van Der Linde gang's skills, but also the heat following them relentlessly, I never felt like there was so much of a ludo narrative dissonance in RDR2 except with John at the epilogue since, some of his actions and the events he partake in kinda over skirts what he would've done as a character.
@@tiago3180 idk, with how skillfully this story is presented, it couldve ultimately only had 5 deaths in it and it couldve been just as engaging and riveting a story. just has to be written well with power intentionally put behind the deaths you see.
It’s actually a random mission with Javier to rescue bill from bounty hunter’s and he said do you not know who Dutches boys are there coming for me. He spoke like there notoriety as a gang was very high
What
@@eazys8322 literal* 🤓
I'd estimate Dutch is sitting at a bounty of $25'000.
Hosea, $10'000, and Arthur obviously $5'000.
This would have Dutch valued at just shy of 1 million.
Dutch had a $10'000 bounty
I'm wondering if that $1,000 bounty for Dutch was just for strawberry and not statewide, in 1899 News traveled slow and some towns didn't even know or get the news like we see in the game
Well, when milton said there was 5k on Arthurs head, today that's nearly 200k so imagine how much dutch would be worth
@@Totally_tobiI'd say dutch has a bounty between 7500 and 10000 dollars. Arthur is considered the right-hand man of dutch and the enforcer of the gang, and he's at 5000.
That poster was pretty old I think.
Just because Arthur’s bounty is 5000 doesn’t mean Dutchs automatically would be higher, Arthur would naturally have a higher bounty anyways since he’s the gangs enforcer and therefore is getting involved in way more crimes and shootouts than Dutch. Just like how in game when you’re bounty hunting Skinner members Elias Green, one of the top enforcers of the gang, has a significantly higher bounty than Otis Skinner, who’s literally one of the Skinner Brothers
And we don't know the date of the newspaper since it's just a single scrap. The Blackwater Massacre surely must've racked up the amount of all the known gang members by quite a lot and that's not counting what happened in Chapters 2-6.
Dutch cares in every way about the gang. I'd say tho as he had to decide between becoming a monster or giving up his past dreams, he has sadly decided the first option. It was too late until he realised what that option costs
My dyslexic ass read that as “WANTED SEX” when I scrolled by and saw dutch
Hahaha
how
@@CantThinkOfAnythingToUseHere dyslexia
Most of the members of the gang we see in the game have only been there for a couple of years at this point, so I'm assuming that the gangs "golden years" is when they didn't have so many non-outlaws to care for. Every member would've been deadly outlaws who stole and murdered, not debtors, children, men of faith and petty theives. Assuming my theory is correct, it could be assumed that the Van Der Linde Gangs biggest downfall was that they were no longer a gang of outlaws, but a community of from dirt, bottom of the barrel people who pissed off the government.
That's what micah wanted, a small team of 5-6 people who could move and strike quickly (dutch, arthur, micah, Bill, Javier and maybe john)
Thats what I always felt, capable members of the Gang had to look out for those who arent capable to look after themselves, pretty much a burden, imagine a Gang with just capable fighter like Arthur, John (if he left his family), Dutch, Javier, Bill, Charles and Micah and maybe even Hosea, they wouldnt have much problem moving quickly after commiting crimes and would always be one step ahead of law, idk thats just what I feel like
@@terminator9489 And that’s not at all what he did later having a gang comprised of like 30 people even more than the Van der Linde gang. He wasn’t unhappy about the numbers he was unhappy about how tightly knit the gang was and how they were practically family, of course he can’t outright say that so he says they have too many freeloaders as a cover up. The reality is that Micah doesn’t want to be part of a family he wanted to be part of a gang who would do almost anything for money, but the gang had morals which also made Micah an outcast since he had none and was at odds over morality with other members like Hosea and Arthur. So it also makes sense that later Micah has a full gang of about 30 or more murderers and other degenerates that won’t think twice about morals and do what he wants
@@thesilentassassin1167Sure having an elite small gang that could move quickly is pragmatically speaking amazing
but the issue is it goes against Dutch's philosophy Dutch is a political leader as much he is a gang leader
he consistently talks about gang being free people and he's disdain for authority of uncle sam
@@josephstalin2606but Micah’s large gang consisted of shooters like the O’Driscolls. No women and children to hold them back or look after. Micah operated like Colm. Dutch and Hosea built a family
Dutch: Roses are red violets are blue i am wanted in 6 states for tax evasion how about you
Best comment I've ever seen
a lot more than tax evasion xd
I mean, it doesn't quite flow like it's supposed to but yes, he was definitely a tax evader.
@@Aurora_Lightbringer I probably should have put federal tax evasion
Murder , thievery , kidnapping , rioting , etc
I think Micah kept that bounty on Dutch because he was looking to collect and happened upon someone else going to kill Dutch and Micah had a change of heart after saving him.
I would love to see what a prologue of the prologue might look like. Perhaps from the eyes of a younger Hosea
I think they were pretty notorious, but even Colm recognized how effective Arthur was as said in the dialogue between them upon Arthur’s capture
3:26 bro the horses
I swear no matter what i do my background is ALWAYS bugging out
God I hope rdr3 keeps these characters. A trilogy told in reverse would be epic.
Set it BEFORE the events of 2 where you play as a younger Hosea or something
@@ict113090 agreed. I'd like to see them tell a redemption story from Mac's perspective. Like he redeemed himself in the end in a story the others didn't know about. I'm sure they could pull it off. He actually escapes in the end alive. He just couldn't meet back up with the gang or he'd have died.
Rockstar, make this happen; the story of Red Dead 3 being a prequel to Red Dead 2 set in 1869-1899 about the Van der Linde gang origin formation and their moral code, Dutch's early young days before the gang and his love connection with Annabelle. Missions being the acquaintances of everybody in the gang, Hosea, Arthur, John, the Callender brothers, Jenny, Sean, Lenny, Javier, Bill and Micah, robberies of banks and trains, holding people ransom, stealing from the rich and giving to the poor, association with Colm O'Driscoll turning into the bitter rivalry, killings of Colm's brother and Annabelle and the failed boat heist in Blackwater during 1899. The game should have 3 playable characters, prologue parts 1 & 2, 2 chapters, epilogue parts 1 & 2. Title might need to change from "Redemption" to "Revolution" or Redemption III: Blackwater in order to fit the story better.
Dutch as the character of the prologue - beginning
Mac & Davey as the characters of the chapters and epilogue - middle & end
Red Dead Redemption 3: Blackwater (gang formation) 1869-1899
Red Dead Redemption 2 (gang downfall) 1899-1907
Red Dead Redemption 1 (gang extermination) 1911-1914
Therefore the entire Van der Linde gang story is shown visually and all the dialogue from the previous games has been visualised. Come on Rockstar! Make my dream a reality since 2014 when I played Red Dead 1 and 2020 when I played Red Dead 2
@@seanprentice0607 I would love that. As long as this group of characters remains idc what they do. These characters and story arc are too good to end there.
@@mnmfreak502 too true. Anybody who says or thinks Red Dead 3 doesn't need the Van der Linde gang back are not TRUE fans in my opinion. Here's why because all the dialogue that comes from 1 & 2 that has and I stress the word HAS to be shown to the world visually. Cause there's plenty about Dutch and Hosea's story to show, Mac & Davey Callender I'd like to get to know. Hell I even emailed Rockstar my idea just to get their attention about my idea hah
I’m curious as to how feared any gang was around that time. Communication was much slower than it is today so I don’t know if they would be feared or even known until they hit their score and vanish.
I would say the golden era for the gang;s height was probably in 1899 just for the gangs PERSONAL prosperity, I'm talking about 5 or 4 months before the blackwater heist, with soon to be some of the most well known and feared members, like micah and charles joining, alongside the recruitment of Jenny and Lenny. As for what time was seemingly the best for the day to day enjoyment of life? the years following Arthur joining the gang, so about 1880-1885, as it started as the 3 pals going on bank, stage, train, boat, and home robberies, with noone really on their backs. Plus the recruitment of Grimshaw and John and Pearson
I mean Arthur having higher Bounty makes sense tho. He was the deadliest person in the gang after the death of the Callander Brothers. If they caught Arthur or killed him, they probably knew the Gang would crumble.
Its also highly likely that they wabted Arthur to be their pawn like what they eventually did with John in RDR1
That doesn’t explain why Milton was willing to let Arthur and the rest of the gang go just to hang Dutch. It’s clear that Dutch would’ve had the higher bounty
Love your content keep it up your longer videos are perfect for work
Bro keep it up. Love the rdr content
Arthurs bounty was set at $5000
Which today would equate too roughly $180,000 today
Tbf money doesn’t work like that in game. Money is prob bout as valuable as it would be in the mid 1900s
5k in 1899 was 200k today
Milton really thought he could trick Arthur
Man it’d be nice to get a rdr3 where you play as mac or davey or both. They have a story that seems could be good and in depth and they’ve given us just enough information about them to make us like them. Their deaths in blackwater aren’t really even known about too well, but it could be worked out that your moral bad ending ends with the brothers dying trying to steal or hide the money and the moral good ending being a sacrificial death to get the rest of them out- probably after seeing Jenny get shot, could be a love triangle situation there for side narrative. They were known to be brutal and aggressive which is what we’d need for a character in the prequel because let’s be real Dutch and Hosea would be boring to play as, they’re yarn spinners, they’re not the guy that gets sent out to “handle” a situation. This would allow us to see some of the earlier years of the gang when they were really outlaws plus the development of the gang adding dependencies and even seeing Micah come in toward the end and maybe they knew he was no good and they were the first ratted victims of Micah’s, perhaps that’s why everything went bad at blackwater to begin with, Micah may have been trying to set the gang up from the get go- he could be a government double agent from way back, who knows. Either way, a mac and davey story would be a dream for rockstar fans if done right, and has a plenty of potential to be pulled off.
top tier content for a top tier game glad to see legacy still living im about to replay lol
Just subscibed, i love your content. You should have at least like 3-5M Subs, just because of your editing and story telling.
Aye thats so kind to hear. Also welcome! Maybe we’ll get there one day
Bro pls make a detailed video about Abigail's betrayal@@CynicGTA
i love your videos & the content you create i just wish rockstar pumped out content for this game like how they do for gta 5, rdr2 is a great game its just doesnt have any online components that really matter to me i like the pvp modes, i liked grab bag, from rdr1, i like the old mexican standoff
how it was "waltons gang vs dutches gang"
"you" - then everybody drew their starting pistols & won in the show down or lost in the showdown
If you read the newspaper while playing thru the storyline and side missions it will state the gangs unlawful activities
"Have you lost all faith Arthur?"
This dude taking over as 🐐 status of red dead videos
Do a mafia series video or a lord shimura video
Lord shimura huh? I got a video coming up on Kazumasa within the next few days. Funny enough…i just completed the mafia remake. Im toying with a few ideas on the mafia series not too sure where itll head
The rdr bunch of bandits dutch runs with are not anywhere near enough threat for ross
If you’re talking about the Natives in Tall Trees then they absolutely were, that’s why Ross had the army deploy to Blackwater and they had a huge battle on the plains and took it into Tall Trees and Dutchs fort. So by rdr1 Dutch is way more dangerous than he ever was in rdr2 especially since he’s at the front of everything unlike in rdr2 he’s in the shadows pushing Eagle Flies to do his bidding meanwhile he only does all that to get the oil bonds from Cornwalls factory
@@josephstalin2606 yeah the bandits only had numbers
No where enough threatening as the old gang
Maybe dutch is more ruthless now
The mentioning of detail to what the Callandar boys were like just makes me wish that if they were to make a prequel to RDR2, we’d get to play as them(either just Mac or possibly even both of them with a GTA V styled character switcher). Maybe get to see the Black Water Massacre, as well as that bar fight in Deer Creek where we as the player would actually have to take down up to 15 guys. Maybe making it a non-Redemption game, Red Dead R(something else), since neither of them ever had a Redemption. Then playing as Arthur in the Epilogue in that time between the massacre and RDR2(not sure how that would work though with how little there is). Just a thought really, it would be neat though, then to play Mac in a final showdown as he gets split up from the gang at Blackwater, killing several dozen lawmen in the process getting more and more shot up, until ultimately being too hurt and dying, Milton showing up around then. Would be a neat story, and another opportunity to explore some characters we don’t even know to make something interesting out of them.
That sounds quite interesting
You just explained why it wouldn’t work. Rockstar would have to change their formula entirely by making it a more linear game like TLOU rather than a free roam one like the ones Rockstar always made. Not to mention it’s literally stated in game that Mac and Davey died as violent outlaws and “that’s all they ever were and will be” and that’s why Arthur was different because he knew he was dying and therefore was able to redeem himself.
So idk why some people think Mac had some final showdown where he saved Arthur and embraced him before staying behind as if he would have time for any of that amidst the chaos. As far as we know Mac was shot up and tortured and then killed, there’s absolutely no redemption in dying during a town massacre that your own gang is responsible for
The gang were so feared and yet Mrs Downes just marches on in univited and starts damning them all 😅
Dutch is easily 20K by the time game starts. Thats just an old poster possibly his first one from years ago
He's wanted for 10K
I dont think they were very well known until Blackwater. If you take in account that Dutch had a $1000 bounty on him. We have to assume that was before Blackwater and Arthur was $5000 after. Now Jessie James had a $10000 bounty almost 20 years before. Thst tells me that the gang used to be really good at hiding there tracks or they was just to small for anyone to care about
He never said he’d overlook Arthur just that he wouldn’t swing so it’s likely he’ll have been imprisoned or put to work had he taken the deal
I love your rdr2 videos subscribed🙏🏾
perfect as allways
I think the $1000 bounty on dutch was accurate and up to date. He rarely actually participates in the dirty work. Arthur does all the real work, while dutch is more of a figurehead, sitting in camp and puffing cigars. While he may be the one ordering the gang around, he's not the one that gets seen committing the crimes.
I think the using outdated tactics and their way of life being outdated and people who control their sphere of influence poking fun of them is a testament of how you can never seem to make money on jobs you do with the gang.
2:25 thats a nice gun
Which one is it and what customisation did you do?
Gold and blued steel with blackened engraving (dont remember which one exactly). For the varnish I'll go either cherry or mesquite
Out of topic but do you think there’s a possibility that Rockstar could fix john‘s epilogue model? It’s literally the only reason I don’t wanna finish my playthrough
Honestly at this point I highly doubt it. Seems like an extremely low priority since GTA VI is being worked on and it seems like this game has pretty much been abandoned by them
@@CynicGTA Tbh, I’m still hoping and Idec if they’ll do it after gta 6😂
@@chillhouse2490 funny enough if it does happen after GTA VI i think a decent number of people will return to the game and replay the epilogue just for that accurate nostalgia factor
I never had to eat a turnip in my life, Hosea Matthews
If I had a penny for how many times Dutch said the word faith I would have more money than the gang
for a sec i didnt see the i in six💀
Pls make a detailed video about Abigail's betrayal
did micah keep that ditch bounty newspaper to rat to Milton?
I always make Arthur look different from his bounty poster so he won't get "recognized". I love to make him look historically accurate.
I don't think your evaluation that John came back during the gang's time in Blackwater is strictly correct. Arthur emphasises that Jack was REAL young when John left the gang and John states he left because he didn't want to believe that Jack was his, which leads me to believe John left in 1895 and returned in 1896
At around the 9min mark you comment on Abigails joining of the gang for a reason I doubt it's the reason you think based on other voice lines in the game
what is the six state? nuevo paraiso?
the states he’s wanted in doesn’t have to be in the game map
@@enthusiasticallydry could be
Cool
ermm... lol abigail wasnt part of the gang *because* of thieving... she may have thieved at some point, but she had another profession :P
chocolates!
They weren't the most feared gangs, there were a nuisance. They robbed lot of rich folk, and trains, stagecoaches. Not exactly dangerous, also they don't threaten people, it would bring attention to them. The only reason why there rewards are high is because they robbed too much rich people, and goods. If anything, the O'driscolls would be feared, they have bigger numbers, known for their brutality. We can definitely say the O'driscoll boys were around longer, they're peak isn't told to us. But from what we can see, they are at their peak, Dutch always cared about being mysterious, Colm didn't. He makes his gang well known, uniforms, accents, and not caring about being seen in public
Idk man Gang killed lots lf people in their crime spree they arent that much better than O dricolls
W
What i never understood is why the game punishes you for Robbing stores and stuff (people to like on the road) Correct me if i'm wrong but doesn't the gang do the same thing? They robbed a train with people because they were rich, arthur beat up and killed the people in that bank in valentine. kinda silly. Arthur says to sadie "we only rob folks who rob other people, these guys are just trying to get by" those people had families and arthur even robbed and killed them for being rich. Also you lose honor for killing rapist and defending yourself
Clickbait
This game ain't that deep, this inconsistencies in the stories indicate that
It's not well written on purpose for RDR3... The less details they include, the easier is to create RDR3 if it's going to be connected
Its only a video game focus on shi irl
Making videos like this will get you money.
bruh you ON youtube
@@colorblockpoprocks6973 for real 😂
Milton didn’t identify John because John was the rat and he didn’t want to blow his cover
Evidence? 💀
Nonsense
literally the most feared gang in all US, heck even if they have small numbers, they can fucking kill hundreds lmfao we have the best gunslinger the great arthur morgan, john marston, dutch and micah (yeah hes a bitch but still good shooter).
I believe let's see Arthur was a boy I guess 12 when meet Dutch an Hosea an then it was 5 years they meet John as a boy around 9 years old I guess.
So I guess the the real beginning of the van der lindes gang was slow building up but when Arthur was in his 25 an John in 16 when being the enforcer's Arthur the top 3rd in line behind Hosea but was there enforcer boss with John under Arthur number 2 but then u got the bothers that came in then bill an Javier Shawn but then u have to throw in the colm o Driscoll gang that eather was part as soldiers of the van der Linda's gang I think yes Dutch an Hosea gang at the time was low key like Hosea like they money quality at some time an at the time all is well but something's happen with Dutch an the o Driscoll brothers that was the Van der lind gangs soldier or like Dutch sead cole had expendable soldiers to use but Dutch choose the best to be his loyal enforcer's under Arthur leadership i guess but if he struggled with the o Driscoll brothers doing there own thing but not following the rules of the van der lind gangs structure or organization.
So yea maybe the van der lind gang was strong enough an was wise enough to have a organize gang at the time an with o Driscoll brothers as leaders of soldiers under them but was at the time was under Dutch and Hosea leadership an Arthur as there Enforcer boss to take care of things when need too an the o Driscoll brothers an there soldiers was like any other gang with soldiers do take out competition or secure territory with there business to make money for the van der lind gang operations. Then way before the black water thing happens something happens that mostly like Dutch an his o Driscoll brothers his I guess Captains of the expendable soldier's was eather getting wrong deal or something but then Dutch killed Cole brother should killed both of them probably would have a lot of soldier under Dutch but i guess like his plans goes he got one brother dead but the other eather got away or was not there but eather way cole got his revenge on dutch wife then after that cole took all what's left his soldiers an made the o Driscoll gang an only took some ideas from Dutch an Hosea that he thinks was good for him but keep his soldiers as expendables but I relay wounded if o Driscoll gang was very much more dum or was they have a system but that's another story..
So after the deaths of one o Driscoll brother an Dutch wife an now we have a Van der lind gang was big an bad an was more like a battalion size but low key but become under a platoon of loyalty member's but could not stay at one place for long to make money like how Hosea probably did for years with more time but after the problem with there o Driscoll brothers soldiers no longer there they could make less money making to give to those in need Plus there gang members pay it seems the van der lind gang's was organized at some point hell look like making lots money an had time Dutch an Hosea got wife's an Arthur had a wife an a 6 year old child doing those time so I think more to the story long before the black water thing an for the six states thing u ever think maybe the van der lind gang control all six states at one time because the O Driscoll brothers was there captain with expendable soldiers with them the van der lind gang was strong an deadly but quite like Hosea wanted but took probably 5 years to control an build up the money making in all 6 stats then some time later when van der lind gang going well Hosea wife died an under the time Arthur kid was born an his wife an his son turn 6 years old was killed an i guess after two years later one O Driscoll brother killed an Dutch wife killed then the break up an lost so much more money an going to war with O Driscoll gang The van der lind gang starts losing an more law enforcement coming after them both but then the black water comes big score but Hosea an Arthur plan would work but I think Dutch was no longer going to Waite with o Driscoll gang on them an law enforcement coming he i think became more recluses then smart after Mitch 6 months Early join the van der lind gang was more about quickly getting money not caring about being smart or how to get things low key like mostly the van der lind gang did have done many many years ago but now all done being low key just recluses one big score an move on do it again an again but after black water now being hunted by law enforcement mostly an o Driscoll gang some times but kill each other when have the chance..
So again the van der lind gang rise an fall an we know about the fall of the o Driscoll gang but not RISE but if Rock Star makes a red dead redemption 3 it would be interesting to see the RISE an Fall of the van der lind gang's an the story they tell before the black water thing personally that would be the very last mission years an years later the Truth about how it happens after all Hosea an Arthur was not there at that time.. again it would be a great game if they take there time an go steps by step in the end u as Dutch an Hosea an maybe John an also Yung Arthur before he what 35 years old in red dead redemption 2. It be nice to understand more about the van der lind gang an the o Driscoll brothers an others was not seen much or was killed before the beginning the Red Dead redemption 2 beginning story plus more..
I think if we think about it at one time the van der lind gang an o Driscoll gang was one an very strong but I think just like Dutch was the boss say Hosea was I guess under boss an Arthur was number 3 in Lin but was boss of the enforcer's he chose the best an then I guess John was Arthur number 2 in the enforcement group plus u got the O Driscoll brothers as the van der lind gang's captains of there soldiers an so much you could do as player in the red dead redemption 3 then RDR 2 ever u could do but much much more.. i guess we see how rock star does RDR 3 mostly like it be very different but we see but i hope it blows RDR 2 out of the water as much i love that game it would be sad if RDR 3 Fails to over take RDR2 or tie it up but be sad that RDR 2 be still number one an RDR 3 don't get closed but goes in Woke crap or just suck again we see good luck rock star keep making good games RDR 2 still damn good i am hooked an can't put Dawn.