Just have to say I personally love hearing about Jen’s thoughts as well. I really enjoy who you two are as a couple as well as your very insightful opinions. For those of us who are fortunate to play with a diverse array of people I truly appreciate how someone more sensitive to dark themes might be impacted. Thank you, Rahdo!
Thanks for the run down. Nothing about the game's presentation made me think this was a game for me, but the sheer popularity was making me take a second look. Knowing more about the Grim-Dark nature confirms it's definitely just not my style though.
I‘ve never played 7th continent but i‘m very interested in the game and I think I‘ll either grab continent or citadel. Personally, I think I‘m slightly more into survival games but if the „Action“ of Citadel makes the game a better choice then I‘d pick it instead of continent. What would be your suggestion for choosing between the two ?
@Rahdo how does the coop nature of this game compare to 7th Continent. I never played 7th continent, but I read some people stating that it was a much better solo game than with multiple people. I am on the fence with this one. I prefer the setting of the 7th continent, but like the idea of less survival focus in the 7th citadel. Thanks.
continent always felt like a solo game made co-op because it sort of was. the fact that players shared a common card draw pile very much reinforced this feeling. each player having their own deck now, and their own strengths helps with that in citadel, and the chained tasks makes players co-operating a much more attractive option now because it's much harder to face those things alone :)
(Copied question from previous upload) My biggest issue with 7th Continent was it ended up feeling like I was wondering around aimlessly rather than exploring. Tainted Grail really ended up being closer to what I was looking for, where even if I went the wrong way it would give me some kind of direction some kind of feedback. 7th continent could have worked as a more open directionless game more I think had it taken some cues from Breath Of The Wild honestly, but as is I didn’t care for its directionless combined with survival combine with specific (but vague) goals. Do you feel this new one, based on your demo, gives the game a greater sense of direction? *edit: wanted to say I have not finished tainted grail so I don’t know if it manages to maintain the qualities I like throughout, but certainly the several hours I did play really pulled me in.
hey nate, never fear, i was going to get to the question, i just had to get this updated video uploaded (only change is it included my declaration that it's a paid preview up front, which i forgot to do)! so i should point out i've only played this prototype and i've seen a bit of additional stuff, so i can't speak too in a super authoritive way, but from what i've seen, the shift from explore/survival (continent) to explore/adventure (citadel) seems to lend itself to a more concrete direction. this isn't a game of "go out there and figure it out" so much as it is "go out there and solve this problem", so i suspect it will work better for you on that front :)
Just about Tainted Grail, we are 13 chapters in, and many of those chapters give a good sense of direction, with various options. Something like that with a little less survival scrounging (but still grim dark :) sounds good to us, so this one sounds cool.
I'm curious about the legacy elements, though I understand the intro scenario doesn't get into it. It seems like it would be easy to erase the pencil (or dry erase pen?) checkmarks on that poster to replay the whole campaign. Any thoughts from what you've seen? Also appreciate you sharing your wife's perspective. I'm hopeful that the setting improves over the course of the campaign, but some of my friends just don't want to spend time in Gloomhaven or Gotham, even before the plagues and tribulations of 2020... Coincidentally the KickStarter-exclusive curse for 7th Continent arrived on my doorstep today via eBay, so I'm very interested in getting in on 7th Citadel now. Thanks for your sneak peek and insights!
afaik there's no real legacy elements other than taking notes, so a photocopies of the trifold sheet is all you need for replayability (as far as i know) :)
Printing a copy would be my first point of call, i'm sure the amazing community would look to make an app to track progress also :) (Not 100% guaranteed, but very hopeful)
Ok, now I want to know what game you're talking about near the end with the wacky adventures in the jungle. That sounds more like something my wife would like, as well, and, admittedly, probably me, too. The whole depressing, dark fantasy thing sounds like a real bummer because I really want to play the game with the mechanics and play style. Maybe they'll create a lighter game at some point that uses the same system. It seems like there's definitely an audience for that if the comments below this video are any indication.
the jungle game is the precursor to this game, 7th continent, which also has some dark moments too, but for the most part is more 'grand old adventurey' :)
Ah, ok! So maybe I should start there. I haven't played that one yet and was thinking of just jumping in with 7th Citadel. I am more of a wackey adventure fan, myself... 😂 Thanks Rahdo!
You know-The 7th Continent is one of my favourite things, and I *want* to like this game. But between the darkness, the slow, multistage fights (like Tainted Grail in spirit but so much less mechanically interesting), the “boss fight” thing you speak of (I have *never* understood why video games want to interrupt a fun experience that you paid for with tedious things where it's suddenly all reflexes and hitting the little red pixel instead of using your brain and you just die and die and die and the only purpose is to block you from reaching the content of the next chapter-maybe so they can pad the claimed gameplay time?), this new complication where the results you need are gated not merely by drawing enough stars but by some super-random thing of happening to draw a card of the right *suit* to trigger an effect… well, it just seems entirely wrong. The mechanics are just so much more complicated, and I don't see what it buys. The one thing that seems like a well thought through change is the use of multiple decks to force co-operative rather than collaborative multiplayer (in practise, on the Continent, we tend to just analyse everything to death and not ‘inhabit’ our individual characters very strongly). But even then, the idea that you have to permanently sacrifice life in order to co-operate in any way seems like an absolutely brutal shift in the opposite direction. It took a while to get the hang of The 7th Continent-that you need to see to your survival and safety before you even set out on your nominal quest-but once you learn the essential combos it's fun as an activity, and you can start to figure things out. This, though …? To my amazement, I feel I may end up backing out. But I can hardly believe it. Is there something that's not coming across, something that would make me love it? How can one of the best things in my collection have a successor that feels so flat, so-tarnished?
@@bernardorippe7024 Same about the compound actions, yhet look too tedious and boring, and I actually like videogame fights! But here they feel uninspired.
@@Skarpo89 your right, the boss fight is exciting if the game comes with a complete combat system, but 7th continent system is more build around survival, push your luck, and narrative. This sounds pretty disconnected from the main bases of the system.
Well really liked 7th Continent when I played at someone else's and was thus eagerly awating 7th Citadel. That grim dark muchness ( :P ) of 7th Citadel is kind of a turn off for me. I'll probably drop of the campaign, my gf would surely not want to play it considering what you said. Thanks for the info :)
I see there is already a comment about the rape implication; thank you. Can anyone speak to how much detail the game goes into when describing the apparent death wish/suicidal thoughts these "slave-gardeners" share? The campaign specifically mentions that YOU wish to die by fatal accident or exhaustion, so it has to be in there somewhere. Also (brief rant)-- they can/should do better than "slave-gardeners." I'm seeing names like the NecroDruids, Burrowers, and the Kel Protectorate-- why not also creatively name the role/social class of the Playable Character(s)? To me, the fact that "slave-gardeners" is in quotes in the second paragraph of the campaign signals that it is not the most accurate (or appropriate) way to describe this group. I'm sure the Necrodruids have a name for these people-- call them that. Thanks for the videos, Rahdo.
re: the slave/gardener phraseology... in world, they're referred to as 'gardeners' (if you watch to the end of the video, i read some dialog from a character who calls them that). it's a euphemism though, as you truly do start the game enslaved, so the "slave-gardeners" is a 100% out of game phrase used by the developers to make clear that we are in bondage, which is something the slave holders gloss over in world by referring to us simply as gardeners. re: suicide, if you watch the beginning of the runthrough, i read the introductory narrative text, and the suicide quote comes from there. i suspect that it's the only reference to that in the game because (minor spoilers) . . . . . . after the first scenario, you've escaped, and you have hope of rebuilding the world.
....I was about to go all in (I absolutely love 7th continent) but what you say about the grim dark is seriously putting me off. How *much* of the rape implications really are there? I get it's dark and ~realistic~, but at the same time I have to worry about such IRL and really would like not to in my games, even if this makes me a bad boardgamer or weak or whatever :/ Really good overview, either way. You continue being one of the best sources of game info when it comes to such games!
I hope Rahdo will be able to answer your question. I just wanted to say I understand your point, I feel the same way about a lot of grim dark fantasy novels... Boardgaming should bring joy to your life so please play whatever you enjoy and don't let anyone make you feel bad about that! Wishing you all the best.
@@paul_w I am fine with giant trees slapping people, Paul. I've have (some of) Kingdom Death, which includes a very murderous (but poorly implemented) tree. :P It's only a specific element (that I did name!) I am worried about that indeed affects me IRL.
@@fy8798 I mean I dont' think there is any rape at all, that would be very strange to put that in this game. Don't worry, I'm pretty sure Serious Poulp wouldn't put that in The 7th Citadel.
I am turned off too by the theme a bit and the graphic design overall. I just am not a big fan of overly dark themes because I use games to essentially escape reality and have fun and if it is that dark and depressing it would probably turn me off. The graphic design overall just look meh. I mean it has a lot of beige and white and just looks stark and uninviting and I know that ties in with the theme, but if I had my choice I would choose the lush jungles over post apocalyptic any day.
Im not convinced at all.... no innovation over the system, see the same stuff as 7th continent.... combat? With this system is not possible real combat feeling.... IDK
Nothing against this guy but saying “paid preview” followed by “this game is amazing” is a reminder why I don’t usually take any notice of these type of reviews as they can seem biased. Anyway, nothing personal dude, I’m sure you love the game. I’m still on the fence with this as I passed on the original as well.
Rahdo is consistently wildly enthusiastic about *everything,* whether he's paid or not. :) So there's calibration to be done, but not in regard to bias. But if 7th Continent wasn't for you, I'm not sure why this would be, either.
Constructive criticism to follow : Mate, just talk about the game. These digressions into your wife's thoughts and feelings take up 50% of your final thoughts. Make your point and move on. This is exactly why I stopped watching your channel. My bad for coming back to learn about this game.
and here's some constructive criticism for you in return... you can just leave instead of bellyaching when someone gives you something for free. again, just some constructive criticism :)
Errr Donnie.... for some of us, these things are super important to know if we would like the game or not. Rahdo mentioning what his wife thought gives me a much better idea if I like it or not. Remember, the game is all of the game, not just the combat mechanics. The fact that Rahdo doesn't censor himself on that or hide such things is why his commentary is much more useful than many other channels I feel.
This is a weird comment considering he is giving you his own and his wife’s impression of the game. Like it was mentioned above I believe you are getting 2 impressions for one video. I think it is better to have more than too little. What exactly are you looking for in the final thoughts videos a 10 second tiktok video.
Just have to say I personally love hearing about Jen’s thoughts as well. I really enjoy who you two are as a couple as well as your very insightful opinions. For those of us who are fortunate to play with a diverse array of people I truly appreciate how someone more sensitive to dark themes might be impacted. Thank you, Rahdo!
Ditto, more please. It's like getting two reviews for the price of one. Which, as you say elsewhere, is free. :)
Grim and dark, I would love something like this based in Warhammer 40K
Unless they lock down their property super tight, I could actually see a crossover like that happen!
Static Klingon Sadly they do. It would have to be made by them and they are all about the minis
Thanks for the run down. Nothing about the game's presentation made me think this was a game for me, but the sheer popularity was making me take a second look. Knowing more about the Grim-Dark nature confirms it's definitely just not my style though.
Thanks for that statement. I already feared I am alone on this!
I‘ve never played 7th continent but i‘m very interested in the game and I think I‘ll either grab continent or citadel. Personally, I think I‘m slightly more into survival games but if the „Action“ of Citadel makes the game a better choice then I‘d pick it instead of continent.
What would be your suggestion for choosing between the two ?
@Rahdo how does the coop nature of this game compare to 7th Continent. I never played 7th continent, but I read some people stating that it was a much better solo game than with multiple people. I am on the fence with this one. I prefer the setting of the 7th continent, but like the idea of less survival focus in the 7th citadel. Thanks.
continent always felt like a solo game made co-op because it sort of was. the fact that players shared a common card draw pile very much reinforced this feeling. each player having their own deck now, and their own strengths helps with that in citadel, and the chained tasks makes players co-operating a much more attractive option now because it's much harder to face those things alone :)
(Copied question from previous upload) My biggest issue with 7th Continent was it ended up feeling like I was wondering around aimlessly rather than exploring. Tainted Grail really ended up being closer to what I was looking for, where even if I went the wrong way it would give me some kind of direction some kind of feedback. 7th continent could have worked as a more open directionless game more I think had it taken some cues from Breath Of The Wild honestly, but as is I didn’t care for its directionless combined with survival combine with specific (but vague) goals. Do you feel this new one, based on your demo, gives the game a greater sense of direction?
*edit: wanted to say I have not finished tainted grail so I don’t know if it manages to maintain the qualities I like throughout, but certainly the several hours I did play really pulled me in.
hey nate, never fear, i was going to get to the question, i just had to get this updated video uploaded (only change is it included my declaration that it's a paid preview up front, which i forgot to do)!
so i should point out i've only played this prototype and i've seen a bit of additional stuff, so i can't speak too in a super authoritive way, but from what i've seen, the shift from explore/survival (continent) to explore/adventure (citadel) seems to lend itself to a more concrete direction. this isn't a game of "go out there and figure it out" so much as it is "go out there and solve this problem", so i suspect it will work better for you on that front :)
Rahdo thanks!!! I am not sure of how video reuploads worked and didn’t want my comment to get lost/deleted.
Just about Tainted Grail, we are 13 chapters in, and many of those chapters give a good sense of direction, with various options. Something like that with a little less survival scrounging (but still grim dark :) sounds good to us, so this one sounds cool.
I'm curious about the legacy elements, though I understand the intro scenario doesn't get into it. It seems like it would be easy to erase the pencil (or dry erase pen?) checkmarks on that poster to replay the whole campaign. Any thoughts from what you've seen?
Also appreciate you sharing your wife's perspective. I'm hopeful that the setting improves over the course of the campaign, but some of my friends just don't want to spend time in Gloomhaven or Gotham, even before the plagues and tribulations of 2020...
Coincidentally the KickStarter-exclusive curse for 7th Continent arrived on my doorstep today via eBay, so I'm very interested in getting in on 7th Citadel now. Thanks for your sneak peek and insights!
afaik there's no real legacy elements other than taking notes, so a photocopies of the trifold sheet is all you need for replayability (as far as i know) :)
Printing a copy would be my first point of call, i'm sure the amazing community would look to make an app to track progress also :) (Not 100% guaranteed, but very hopeful)
Thx for the runthrough it was going to be this one or frosthaven. But frosthaven looks more for my taste.
Frost is not 2022
Ok, now I want to know what game you're talking about near the end with the wacky adventures in the jungle. That sounds more like something my wife would like, as well, and, admittedly, probably me, too. The whole depressing, dark fantasy thing sounds like a real bummer because I really want to play the game with the mechanics and play style. Maybe they'll create a lighter game at some point that uses the same system. It seems like there's definitely an audience for that if the comments below this video are any indication.
the jungle game is the precursor to this game, 7th continent, which also has some dark moments too, but for the most part is more 'grand old adventurey' :)
Ah, ok! So maybe I should start there. I haven't played that one yet and was thinking of just jumping in with 7th Citadel. I am more of a wackey adventure fan, myself... 😂 Thanks Rahdo!
Love the shirt! I have been waiting for this and can not wait to play it.
Thank You for honest opinion !
More grim and dark? Sounds more appealing. I could use a happier setting that distracts from the real world horrors.
You know-The 7th Continent is one of my favourite things, and I *want* to like this game. But between the darkness, the slow, multistage fights (like Tainted Grail in spirit but so much less mechanically interesting), the “boss fight” thing you speak of (I have *never* understood why video games want to interrupt a fun experience that you paid for with tedious things where it's suddenly all reflexes and hitting the little red pixel instead of using your brain and you just die and die and die and the only purpose is to block you from reaching the content of the next chapter-maybe so they can pad the claimed gameplay time?), this new complication where the results you need are gated not merely by drawing enough stars but by some super-random thing of happening to draw a card of the right *suit* to trigger an effect… well, it just seems entirely wrong. The mechanics are just so much more complicated, and I don't see what it buys.
The one thing that seems like a well thought through change is the use of multiple decks to force co-operative rather than collaborative multiplayer (in practise, on the Continent, we tend to just analyse everything to death and not ‘inhabit’ our individual characters very strongly). But even then, the idea that you have to permanently sacrifice life in order to co-operate in any way seems like an absolutely brutal shift in the opposite direction.
It took a while to get the hang of The 7th Continent-that you need to see to your survival and safety before you even set out on your nominal quest-but once you learn the essential combos it's fun as an activity, and you can start to figure things out. This, though …? To my amazement, I feel I may end up backing out.
But I can hardly believe it. Is there something that's not coming across, something that would make me love it? How can one of the best things in my collection have a successor that feels so flat, so-tarnished?
+1 same feeling here
@@bernardorippe7024 Same about the compound actions, yhet look too tedious and boring, and I actually like videogame fights! But here they feel uninspired.
@@Skarpo89 your right, the boss fight is exciting if the game comes with a complete combat system, but 7th continent system is more build around survival, push your luck, and narrative. This sounds pretty disconnected from the main bases of the system.
Well really liked 7th Continent when I played at someone else's and was thus eagerly awating 7th Citadel. That grim dark muchness ( :P ) of 7th Citadel is kind of a turn off for me. I'll probably drop of the campaign, my gf would surely not want to play it considering what you said. Thanks for the info :)
She may not be your gf by the time this comes out.
@@gatorchomp9607 considering we have a child I sure hope we continue 🙂
Do you really think it’s going to take two years to get it?
I see there is already a comment about the rape implication; thank you. Can anyone speak to how much detail the game goes into when describing the apparent death wish/suicidal thoughts these "slave-gardeners" share? The campaign specifically mentions that YOU wish to die by fatal accident or exhaustion, so it has to be in there somewhere.
Also (brief rant)-- they can/should do better than "slave-gardeners."
I'm seeing names like the NecroDruids, Burrowers, and the Kel Protectorate-- why not also creatively name the role/social class of the Playable Character(s)? To me, the fact that "slave-gardeners" is in quotes in the second paragraph of the campaign signals that it is not the most accurate (or appropriate) way to describe this group. I'm sure the Necrodruids have a name for these people-- call them that.
Thanks for the videos, Rahdo.
re: the slave/gardener phraseology... in world, they're referred to as 'gardeners' (if you watch to the end of the video, i read some dialog from a character who calls them that). it's a euphemism though, as you truly do start the game enslaved, so the "slave-gardeners" is a 100% out of game phrase used by the developers to make clear that we are in bondage, which is something the slave holders gloss over in world by referring to us simply as gardeners.
re: suicide, if you watch the beginning of the runthrough, i read the introductory narrative text, and the suicide quote comes from there. i suspect that it's the only reference to that in the game because (minor spoilers)
.
.
.
.
.
.
after the first scenario, you've escaped, and you have hope of rebuilding the world.
....I was about to go all in (I absolutely love 7th continent) but what you say about the grim dark is seriously putting me off. How *much* of the rape implications really are there?
I get it's dark and ~realistic~, but at the same time I have to worry about such IRL and really would like not to in my games, even if this makes me a bad boardgamer or weak or whatever :/
Really good overview, either way. You continue being one of the best sources of game info when it comes to such games!
I hope Rahdo will be able to answer your question. I just wanted to say I understand your point, I feel the same way about a lot of grim dark fantasy novels...
Boardgaming should bring joy to your life so please play whatever you enjoy and don't let anyone make you feel bad about that! Wishing you all the best.
I don't think you are dealing irl with giant trees crushing people and slave-gardeners, it's fantasy "dark" not irl dark.
@@paul_w I am fine with giant trees slapping people, Paul. I've have (some of) Kingdom Death, which includes a very murderous (but poorly implemented) tree. :P It's only a specific element (that I did name!) I am worried about that indeed affects me IRL.
@@fy8798 I mean I dont' think there is any rape at all, that would be very strange to put that in this game. Don't worry, I'm pretty sure Serious Poulp wouldn't put that in The 7th Citadel.
I am turned off too by the theme a bit and the graphic design overall. I just am not a big fan of overly dark themes because I use games to essentially escape reality and have fun and if it is that dark and depressing it would probably turn me off. The graphic design overall just look meh. I mean it has a lot of beige and white and just looks stark and uninviting and I know that ties in with the theme, but if I had my choice I would choose the lush jungles over post apocalyptic any day.
Ok Rahdo not positive. Too much combat for Jen I guess. Then it’s probably not for us either.
Can't wait to play. Cool shirt.
Im not convinced at all.... no innovation over the system, see the same stuff as 7th continent.... combat? With this system is not possible real combat feeling.... IDK
Nothing against this guy but saying “paid preview” followed by “this game is amazing” is a reminder why I don’t usually take any notice of these type of reviews as they can seem biased. Anyway, nothing personal dude, I’m sure you love the game.
I’m still on the fence with this as I passed on the original as well.
Rahdo is consistently wildly enthusiastic about *everything,* whether he's paid or not. :) So there's calibration to be done, but not in regard to bias. But if 7th Continent wasn't for you, I'm not sure why this would be, either.
Stephen Spackman yeah I’ll probably pass on it. Just doesn’t excite me me at all.
Constructive criticism to follow :
Mate, just talk about the game. These digressions into your wife's thoughts and feelings take up 50% of your final thoughts. Make your point and move on. This is exactly why I stopped watching your channel. My bad for coming back to learn about this game.
and here's some constructive criticism for you in return... you can just leave instead of bellyaching when someone gives you something for free.
again, just some constructive criticism :)
It is why I watch his channel
U just got served donnie, this is rahdo's style. Dont know what u r complaining about
Errr Donnie.... for some of us, these things are super important to know if we would like the game or not. Rahdo mentioning what his wife thought gives me a much better idea if I like it or not.
Remember, the game is all of the game, not just the combat mechanics. The fact that Rahdo doesn't censor himself on that or hide such things is why his commentary is much more useful than many other channels I feel.
This is a weird comment considering he is giving you his own and his wife’s impression of the game. Like it was mentioned above I believe you are getting 2 impressions for one video. I think it is better to have more than too little. What exactly are you looking for in the final thoughts videos a 10 second tiktok video.