2 things! You’re getting close to 100k subscribers! Awesome... and, would like to see you spin one of those motors to 8k for the win, Dyno map 4-8k rpm range and tell us more!
Idk but I still deeply love the sbc, sbf, y block, rocket, .....anything non LS. As everyone moves on to the newest.. it leaves me great older stuff to play with. 👍😁👍
Ive just read David Vizards book on porting. He seem to prefer 2V motors, claiming they typically produce more low rpm torque. Would be interesting to see a test on that. A 2V vs 4V vs 5V test on the same engine would be really cool. Also he has a patented "solution" to 4V heads wich he calls PolyQuad. It has diferent sizes on all the valves wich combines higher flow with higher flow speed with reduced reverse flow. Giving the low rpm torque of the 2V and the high rpm potential of 4V. That would also be a very interesting test to see if his claims are true.
Magnus Danielsson. Great to hear frpm you again! Yeah, the Ford Broadmedows development engineers found the same thing with the OHC Intech verses the planned Barra, all done with Tickford early on in 1991. The reason why dual band resonance intakes are so important is the intake runners have to be perfect to not create a reistriction because of cross section area changes. Vizards eldest daughter and boy friend got a 4550 Ai ratio on a Crane cammed, single Weber 48 IDA Italian intake manifold engine reving to 7700 rpm, from just 85.8cubic inches and made 145 hp at the flywheel. Net. Non cross flow, siamese port intake and exhausts, non wedge cast iron head, 1.4:1 rockers. Thats a specific rev based horspower level greater than some of the best Ferraris..all from a 1950s Morris three bearing long stroke " relic". Dinosaur Charmer David "Viz" the non multivalve engine Whiz...Richard should have him on Speed Dial...
@@deanstevenson6527 Thats very interesting. Vizard have a few examples in his book on engines that gave some impressive power figures. It would be very interesting to see some of those engines in action. Like the saying goes "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence". Im not one to discredit anything Vizard says. But its still anectdotal until someone can show some dynofigures or similar. Having Richard dyno such engines would be really interesting indeed.
Magnus Danielsson : That engine is Science Fact...its the Modifying Your A series Issue 3 engine, dynoed in two separate chassis dynos after being engine dynoed. The numbers are conservative. The cam was a Crane master ground by Eglin I think. Anyway, in that 400 plus page book, it demystified lots. Vizards comments of chassis dyno losses echo Richard Holdeners. Everything lines up. Reaction dynos qith power absorption units and counterweights and rev per second increases cause many variations but its all resolvable. It's nothing for two calibrated chassis dynos to vary 40 hp on an engine making 240 hp. Engine flywheel dynos...hard to get that wrong. Anyway...great work on the 4.6. Love the adaptor. Love the 14 years we got RHD Mustang 4.6 Cobras, RHD 4.6 Explorers, Boss 5.4 260/290's, and 5.0 Supercharged Miami's. The Modular base engines...perfect plan for the market in Australia and New Zealand. The Barra almost bet the GT-P 351 killowatt Falcons 5 lit(re)'s ample ar$e. Vale Ocker Fords!
Only two additions I’d like to see now would be an intake spacer on a 96-98 cobra intake, and I’d love to see the new Cobra Jet intake with some adapters!
Yes keep the 4v fords coming just interesting motors with great potential with right set ups. The mod motors I've always liked it's not your cookie cutter motor it takes some knowledge on what needs what which makes it great.
At 281 inches, the only easy way to make more hp is rpm. It would be great to see one of these dohc 4.6's cammed for a hp peak at 8000-8500rpm, like modern coyotes, then test intakes.
Nah, I completely disagree. Sure, you'll get *some* power running at a high RPM but you'll get out ran by a boosted motor all day long. These 4V motors LOVE boost.
@@chrishernandez2490 You are absolutely correct. The best way to make 4.6 power is boost. My line of thought in commenting, was that the NA Dohc 4.6 was never given parts to approach it's potential. Back in 1996-98, all the magazines modifying Dohc 4.6 were looking for hp gains below 7k rpm. Nowdays we see that approach was stupid, with the 8000+ rpm coyotes. Building a 8000rpm Dohc 4.6 would be neat, but a waste of time, money, and effort, vs building a coyote. It only sounds like a cool idea when someone else is paying the bills. You can't say never though. Some utube channels are convincing idiots to spend $3k to stroke a 305 SBC to 331ish instead of buying a $500 350
You need "the other guys" 4v intake! 2000s lincoln intech! Long short runner with progressive throttle body! It might be a pain on the dyno, but its a lotta fun on my commute!
I owned an 03’ Mach1, mildly modded. It also had a magnesium intake, but not a dual runner. The dyno hp/tq figures looked similar to the 01’ Cobra, much more low end torque though. It’d be interesting to see the difference. Granted the 03-04’ 4v cylinder heads are different from from all the other 4v’s. The best flowing 4v cyl heads for peak power being the 00’ CobraR(extreme limited production) The best flowing 4v cyl heads for all around power and torque being the 03-04’ Mach1/Cobra/Aviator. 01’ and earlier 4v Cobra heads were not the best flowing but could be massaged decently to produce good power. Early 2000’s I had a friend with a 96’ Cobra who had a limited production(less than 100) intake manifold, stock heads. Stock engine, any and all bolt ons for the time, no cams at time of dyno. Dyno tuned, in 2001, to 300hp and 250tq. But the torque curve was stagnant, straight across, from 2500rpm all the way to 6500rpm. At the time is was unheard of. The power was linear. Before you knew it you were in triple digits. My Mach1 punched you in the back, you knew the whole time you were headed to triple digits. 01’ and earlier heads are why Ford went back to the drawing board and skipped 02’ 4v 4.6L’s all together. They never produced the claimed power output. Important to note, for the uninitiated: Mach1/Aviator had all aluminum NA 4v 4.6L with different intake manifolds. Cobra(Terminator) had aluminum heads/iron block 4v 4.6L with a roots type supercharger for the intake.
Yeah the adapters are definitely for unique wow factor only. But on that same note would’ve been cool to see an a real GT40 cobra or the Explorer psuedo-cobra intake get tested.
@@TheVenom8343 yes the mark 8 and 96-98 cobra had b heads. I once had a 97 cobra for several years I loved it. They really like the rev and dont have the midrange the c head cars do (especially the mach 1 which I also owned). Give em a ported short runner intake, some nice cams and fbo and you can make in the upper 300 rwhp range and with 4.30 gears out back they can be a menace lol.
Nice to find a channel that does tests similar to what I think about sometimes. I have a 99 Cobra engine sitting in storage that needs rebuilt, and also no car to put it in, but it does make me wonder what's possible.
Hey Ritchard when you get bored can you do a spark plug indexing video and tuning without a o2 sensor heat range timing mark ect would be a great video.
Awesome test as always! The only one I would’ve like to have seen but you may be able to get it....is a dual inlet intake used on a prototype car called the cobra competition.
The only other intake i can think of for a 4.6 4v is the fr500c. It was dual plenum with air horns kinda like a ir. It was rare and very expensive. I had a 96 cobra and loved driving that car. It sounded better and was more fun to drive than my coyote.
Would love to see a test like this with the injectors mounted high on the tubes to capture the charge cooling benefit that often gets attributed to carbs.
It seems like the mach 1/cobra intake is hard to beat for what is otherwise a lightly modified 4v. This is extremely informative, thank you rich. Im in the process of building my modular and I know now I made the correct choice when I bought the mach 1 intake.
Lotta guys look specifically for the 03/04 mach intakes today for a reason. They're not an overpriced aftermarket unit, and they flow very well even in stock for. A lot are cut up and modified into long, medium, and short runner units. Very cool pieces.
Hey Richard! I have an "Other Guys" suggestion for the TurboFord guys... The Ford 2.3L 140 L4 Lima. Let's see what you can make one do! :D Would love to see a big bang on the stock N/A bottom end... If I don't beat you to it first! *chuckles*
I'd like to see the Lincoln mark viii vs cobra intake manifold test maybe the continental you know the ones we can find in a wrecking yard vs that cobra manifold from 96-98
With those adapters, I'd like to see the F28 302 edelbrock intake, 2 4bbl made for carters. I ran that for years on the street with progressive linkage in my 83 mustang. 24mpg on the highway using the primaries of the back carb and 5mpg when using them all drag racing on the weekends, lol. Love that intake! Doesn't fit the 460 in the stang now but it's in the garage waiting for a "someday " project.
Awesome info. MMR makes adapters for the 5.0L Coyote intakes that work on the 99-01, 03/04 Cobra/Mach/Aviator heads. I would love to see this test with a Boss 302 or Cobra Jet intake!
Always wondered how the Aviator intake would work cut, ported and a custom upper allowing a a dual style cobra throttlebody. Also wondered on my 96 Cobra if I could somehow make the IMRC control work to control the runners.
Awesome test! I think that the adapter may have played a role if the transition wasn't smooth enough. I think generally speaking the change in shape of the runner is not as important as a change in cross section which will greatly effect the pressure waves. Impressed with the results from the adjustable intake. sometimes simple gets the job done! Curious on thoughts on gm 3800 ln3 style intake. Basically has the runners flare straight from the plenum. They produce huge low end torque considering they have no runner to speak of.
@@ryanmalin C'mon dude, Richard LITERALLY says "what intakes would you like to see tested?" - do you really think that he can't perform more tests? He literally does this for a living(lucky bastard!)
Awesome video Richard. How about adaptor plates and test coyote Manifolds! Also, At that power level do you think the aviator throttle body/upper Manifold was a restriction? How much more radical were the Hyland stage 1 cams vs stock? Would the B head Lincoln mk8 Manifold come anywhere close to the 01 cobra/aviator (I know it's apples and oranges, I've never seen good Dyno numbers
For sure the adaptor sectional change is hurting horsepower, but none of these intakes was a patch on the LS3 5.1 liter destroked 4.8 crank 6.0 liter engine you took to 633 hp at 8000 rpm with Dual Quads. Down here, Cobra heads on 5.4 liter DJR 320 Falcons made 429 hp at 5250 rpm. Thats were it buttons off for anything not gasflowed with broaching for better cams and ports. With the 4.6, it has the same need to controll the shape from the carb venturis to the intake valve you noted in the 8.2 and 9.5 deck Quad TWM carb tests. The short deck engines are always gonna suffer unless the individual legs are given a nice even section. Die grinding "gifted to you for testing purposes" intakes is not looked on with favor. Any increase in power that looses as much torque as every other intake proves Ford was on the right track with the stock 01 Cobra Dee Cobra Daa.Holley Hi Ram with the right size Dominator Holleys and profile the adaptor to suit the 4V head wide section change and you will get 475 to 520 hp at 6750 rpm if the heads and cam can support the flow. The Mod 4Vs are special, but need Special Attention to get the same kind of specfic power even a destroked 6.0 with Dual Quads can.
They already did that back when Engine Master's Challenge allowed Modulars in, where they absolutely destroyed everything else - because, you know, 2v heads can't fuck with 4v heads(LOL @ LSxs "flowing more"...) - and set a new points record for ECM ...and after John Mihovetz sent stock production Modular block & heads(and crank) down the 1/4 quicker than any LSx has ever sniffed. I believe the quickest LSx is still David Adkins' 1/4 pass from 2018 where he went 5.97 @ 243... ...with a Noonan billet block... ...and Baker Eng billet heads... Mihovetz has been 5.88 @ 250(has been as fast as 254) with an aluminum Teksid('91-'98ish 4.6) block and GT500 heads, stock displacement. Both cars are 2300lb chassis cars of course. It's simple math - factory parts(including 4v heads) out running aftermarket billet(including 2v heads), and by 7+MPH too
Ford made like 6 different heads for the 4.6/5.4. I don't know how many different intakes but probably 10. As for aftermarket offerings you are correct...there aren't a lot. But that is probably because one of the factory intakes will probably work in most people's application. I would be interested to see what an ITB set up can do. In my opinion it is probably unnecessary because about everyone making real power with these engines is running some form of forced induction. One problem I see with all of these tests is that they require the "C" heads. I would like to see what can be done with the "B" heads. There is definitely a lack of intake manifold choices for a 4.6 with the "B" heads. I wonder if a well built 2v would make as much power as a well built 4 valve. If so it would definitely be cheaper. Half the cams,half the valves,half the springs,retainers etc. I suppose it would rev faster and higher with less valvetrain to articulate. Anyone care to share any facts on this subject . Thanks
How about the down draft set up with ingeles carbs? Borla intake? Could you run a tri power set up with the KarKraft adaptors??? What would those do? Let's cam the hell outta all those combos and see what's what! Lol You're awesome,man! Keep the dynamic science coming.
It'd amazing Ford did all this work to the 4.6 and whole the 3v did good power you got wild looking combos with the "other 4.6s" I don't think 500 crank dyno hp woulda been hard to get with some compression and cammage
Craig : In Australia, they used the Cobra and Navigator 5.4 Quad Cam intake and 82mm MAF to make sure the 2002 5.6 liter GT40P headed stock bore 342 made over 335 hp at 5250 rpm. In another two years, the same kind of intake made 429 hp at 5250 rpm with a Quad Cam US export 5.4 liter engine. The adaptor plate is perfect for a Hi Ram Holley. Again, Ford was planning all this for a very long time. The Trickflow Box R is a lot like the 5.4 Quad cammer upper plenumb.
The 99 continental had adapters from the factory to run a B-head intake manifold on C heads. I would like to see those used to run a 96-98 Cobra intake on the C heads. Also a shortened runner 99/01 Cobra intake would be cool!
Can't remember where I saw it but some intake had ITBs and as it revved up and down the trumpets were lifted up and down to change the intake runner length. I think it might be an i4 bike or i6 bmw. Cool stuff and not overly complex (simple leverage and servo setup). Yamahas r1 has something similar but it lifts the long runners OFF of the short ones so the transition won't be as nice.
Box R with a proper mod motor lower would be a decent combo. Just to much going on with the adapter plates going from a sbf port to the 4v port. Probably be similar to the short runner FR500 intake
I have absolutely NO idea why TFS never released a Modular lower that accepted their Windsor uppers, especially after releasing the 2v heads. Well, I say I have no idea, but let's just say that they also designed their own 4v Modular head too, but it never got produced because the mod motor isn't a "popular" engine with most of the TFS staff apparently. I guess it was a hard enough fight just to get the 2v heads made...
If anything I'd say use a more free flowing 302 intake and check the port match on the adapters. Some rubbing on the adapters + a victor intake and I bet the sbf intake could compete.
I mentioned this before, and i realize there is likely not enough space in the dyno room, (and time !) but it would be so helpful to have engine weights as tested because you almost always have the same accessory setup for every test on every engine which would end lots of speculation about how heavy each engine combination is; apples to apples, so to speak . . . (um, type?).
The GT40 intake as found on the explorer, then a ported GT40 intake, And perhaps port the adapter if it can be.....Would love to see something like that for the 2v modular and I can't forget the 5.4's those in particular seem to have not very many options...
Those 5.0 intakes might be better on the 2V motors. How about testing the Edelbrock 4.6 Victor Jr. on the 2V? I've seen them installed, but I don't know how they perform. Thanks.
I’ve always wondered about the 99-02 C-head Continental manifolds? They are different from every design you’ve tested here and may offer an alternative
Would be cool if you could set an engine up like this with 2 different runner lengths one to each intake valve 8 short run and 8 long run one of each to each cylinder
Only good way get SBF adapters to perform well is to install a blower intake with roots blower. Boost will make up for flow issues. Run BDS 210 or 220 whichever size blower is. It's beefed up 177 Weiland can get single or dual 4bbl set up.
Be interesting to perform a comparison between port fuel injection vs carburetion, on a BB Chevrolet. I would like to see whether the "charge cooling", and longer evaporation times achievable with a carburetor, would offset the pathetic natural mixture distribution characteristics of that particular engine.
@@richardholdener1727 Even though port injection facilitates correction of the uneven F/A issues inherent to the BBC head design? Have you tried this particular experiment?
I'm a Ford guy and the 4.6 design is the future........why does Ford always try to do more with less cubes? If you look at the LS pushrod motors critically from an engineering standpoint they are very simple "Flintstone-type" motors that use all the hot rod tricks we've learned over the years, and.......they make damn good power. Please Ford, gimme more cubes always....not just at the odd times you feel like it. Adaptors? That's a damn poor way to 'crutch' a design.
They need to start selling more crates, we need a 4.6 2v and 4v crate, a 460 crate, a 302 crate, a 351 crate, a coyote crate a "boss 6.2" crate, a 7.3l Godzilla crate, and ecoboos crate, a 6.8 crate, a voodoo crate, and a predator crate (maybe a powerboat kit too in a few years)(yes I know they already offer several of these, but we need a full selection)
I have a set of ITB's from a BMW 5.0 V10. I am going to look into mounting those to adapters and running twin turbos with twin air to water intercoolers. Looking for a streetable 1000hp. Teksid block,Kellogg stock stroke crank,Molnar power adder rods...not sure of pistons yet but will try to run as close to 11 to 1 compression as possible. E85 of course. Biggest question is whether to port,polish,modify the "B" heads or go with some 'C" 9 thread heads. The 4 thread B heads are of some concern.
You could test the 03/04 cobra intercooled intake with out a blower. Na vs na and then you can run ice water through it and see what an all motor intercooled set up if its worth it with cooler air charge even though not pressurized above atmosphere maybe the lower temp can get more timing or cuase less detonation. But if charge cooling works for carburetors on wet style manifold it should help efi manifolds also but in a dry way. After my CO2 spray bar on my intercooler of my subaru dropped me 1.5 seconds in the quarter mile in vegas summer i always thought of random ways to cool the air charge as much as possible. C02 spray bar would of been cool(no pun intended) to see on the water/meth vs intercooled test.
@@michoacanom4320 Welcome to the world of Ford Modulars - where power from a measly 300HP to 3000HP is made with factory parts because, yea, it's not like you have a choice...
If you dont have cams you'll be slowing your charged and loosing power, if you've got like stage 1.5+ cams you're probably gonna gain because porting=more air and more air+more fuel=more power.
Id love for you to test the 98 cobra stock intake with imrc deletes and a wilson front feed elbow with a large mm tb. Had no clue these car craft adapters were available! Also, id like to see how turbo boost affects the trick flow box intake, 98 stock cobra intake, 2001 stock intake, and sullivan efi intake with a single blade tb, and aviator intake above 5k rpm
Great work Richard. How about a true adjustable dual plane-dual plenum intake, with a throttle body in the crossover that opens (at higher RPMs) to create a quasi single plane intake-Dual plane low end torque and top end single plane HP. What say you Richard? Thank you.
@@richardholdener1727 to clarify, I'm suggesting modifying your fabricated intake to act like a carb dual plane intake. Each plenum connected to half the engine based on the firing order. Then utilizing a throttle body in your crossover that when closed, will provide low speed torque, and when open, connecting the two plenums together, extending the power curve as rpm increases.
This is why you're the best richard you test everything
There are many good Richards and I think some may be better than Holdener.
www.ranker.com/list/famous-people-named-rick/reference
Ranger Rick and Rick James to name just 2
Word play
These 4 valves are the most awesome looking motors.
They look like the old SOHC427 motor…. Absolute jewelry.
I think I speak for all when I say we really appreciate You sharing these test and knowledge so that we can all get the best bang for our buck
thnx
4 valves sound so great! One of the best sounding street car motors!
Looks like Ford SVT did their homework in developing a intake manifold for the 4.6 4v engine!
Need to see a fully ported Cobra with a plenum spacer.
We also need a high compression, big cam 4 valve.
Can you imagine the speed of those opening ramps with a four-valve? That engine would be barking like the V12 in Cannonball Run!
You forgot the belt driven intake manifold Richard.
Aw yee
Lol took me a while to get that one
Yeah thats the only one he forgot. I’m glad I sourced one and it came stock with my truck.
@@AnthonySvt_ Mr Lightning!!!!!
Everytime i see a dyno graph when your talking about the run all I hear is waaaaaaaaaahhhhh. Lol your the best rich
I need to do more of that
Keep the 4v stuff coming!
Probably the best engine ever made.
We have the highest gratitude for your resilience in testing Sir Holdener!
The only other test I would have liked to see is a lightly ported 01 cobra intake with a lid spacer. Awesome video
So funny that your homemade intake was the most competitive to the stock cobra intake 🤣
2 things! You’re getting close to 100k subscribers! Awesome... and, would like to see you spin one of those motors to 8k for the win, Dyno map 4-8k rpm range and tell us more!
we've run 8K with these with more cam and the FR500
Rich, you have the best content on y/t as far as performance automotive subject go's. THANK YOU MY MAN!!!!
Dude, YES!
Hmm I think you missed one, the best 4v cobra intake manifold is a twin screw supercharger.
😆
Rumor has it if you port that intake it flows real well lol
They only make old ass non intercooled kbs for the early b head cobras.
Thank you so much, I've been waiting so long for this.
Idk but I still deeply love the sbc, sbf, y block, rocket, .....anything non LS. As everyone moves on to the newest.. it leaves me great older stuff to play with.
👍😁👍
Thank you Richard! Huge modular fan and this is stellar data! Thank you for the hard work.
Ive just read David Vizards book on porting. He seem to prefer 2V motors, claiming they typically produce more low rpm torque. Would be interesting to see a test on that. A 2V vs 4V vs 5V test on the same engine would be really cool.
Also he has a patented "solution" to 4V heads wich he calls PolyQuad. It has diferent sizes on all the valves wich combines higher flow with higher flow speed with reduced reverse flow. Giving the low rpm torque of the 2V and the high rpm potential of 4V.
That would also be a very interesting test to see if his claims are true.
Magnus Danielsson. Great to hear frpm you again! Yeah, the Ford Broadmedows development engineers found the same thing with the OHC Intech verses the planned Barra, all done with Tickford early on in 1991. The reason why dual band resonance intakes are so important is the intake runners have to be perfect to not create a reistriction because of cross section area changes. Vizards eldest daughter and boy friend got a 4550 Ai ratio on a Crane cammed, single Weber 48 IDA Italian intake manifold engine reving to 7700 rpm, from just 85.8cubic inches and made 145 hp at the flywheel. Net. Non cross flow, siamese port intake and exhausts, non wedge cast iron head, 1.4:1 rockers. Thats a specific rev based horspower level greater than some of the best Ferraris..all from a 1950s Morris three bearing long stroke " relic". Dinosaur Charmer David "Viz" the non multivalve engine Whiz...Richard should have him on Speed Dial...
@@deanstevenson6527 Thats very interesting. Vizard have a few examples in his book on engines that gave some impressive power figures. It would be very interesting to see some of those engines in action. Like the saying goes "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence".
Im not one to discredit anything Vizard says. But its still anectdotal until someone can show some dynofigures or similar. Having Richard dyno such engines would be really interesting indeed.
Magnus Danielsson : That engine is Science Fact...its the Modifying Your A series Issue 3 engine, dynoed in two separate chassis dynos after being engine dynoed. The numbers are conservative. The cam was a Crane master ground by Eglin I think. Anyway, in that 400 plus page book, it demystified lots. Vizards comments of chassis dyno losses echo Richard Holdeners. Everything lines up. Reaction dynos qith power absorption units and counterweights and rev per second increases cause many variations but its all resolvable. It's nothing for two calibrated chassis dynos to vary 40 hp on an engine making 240 hp. Engine flywheel dynos...hard to get that wrong. Anyway...great work on the 4.6. Love the adaptor. Love the 14 years we got RHD Mustang 4.6 Cobras, RHD 4.6 Explorers, Boss 5.4 260/290's, and 5.0 Supercharged Miami's. The Modular base engines...perfect plan for the market in Australia and New Zealand. The Barra almost bet the GT-P 351 killowatt Falcons 5 lit(re)'s ample ar$e. Vale Ocker Fords!
Only two additions I’d like to see now would be an intake spacer on a 96-98 cobra intake, and I’d love to see the new Cobra Jet intake with some adapters!
Give us some 6.2L Ford goodness
6.2 ford needs an other guys debut
Been saying this for a while .
@@x1boomer definitely
Ah man.. that thing has serious potential.. and they're pretty cheap. They probably also able to fit where a 4v did..
Yes keep the 4v fords coming just interesting motors with great potential with right set ups. The mod motors I've always liked it's not your cookie cutter motor it takes some knowledge on what needs what which makes it great.
You are the man Richard, you do it all
At 281 inches, the only easy way to make more hp is rpm. It would be great to see one of these dohc 4.6's cammed for a hp peak at 8000-8500rpm, like modern coyotes, then test intakes.
I disagree, rpm is not the only way.
Boost... 😎
I agree! I’ve seen these 4v 4.6 engines make some serious power at 7500-8500rpm but with standalone because stock pcm’s restrict high rpm’s
Nah, I completely disagree. Sure, you'll get *some* power running at a high RPM but you'll get out ran by a boosted motor all day long. These 4V motors LOVE boost.
@@chrishernandez2490 You are absolutely correct. The best way to make 4.6 power is boost. My line of thought in commenting, was that the NA Dohc 4.6 was never given parts to approach it's potential. Back in 1996-98, all the magazines modifying Dohc 4.6 were looking for hp gains below 7k rpm. Nowdays we see that approach was stupid, with the 8000+ rpm coyotes. Building a 8000rpm Dohc 4.6 would be neat, but a waste of time, money, and effort, vs building a coyote. It only sounds like a cool idea when someone else is paying the bills. You can't say never though. Some utube channels are convincing idiots to spend $3k to stroke a 305 SBC to 331ish instead of buying a $500 350
only thing id have like to see would be a tunnel ram 5.0 manifold on those adapters.
This will be hard core education...yes!!!..thanks Richard
You need "the other guys" 4v intake! 2000s lincoln intech! Long short runner with progressive throttle body! It might be a pain on the dyno, but its a lotta fun on my commute!
I think this channel is great. Can't wait for the Twin-H Hudson Hornet dyno session. Seriously though, this is great tech info and entertainment.
I just love all the options for Ford v8s.
I owned an 03’ Mach1, mildly modded. It also had a magnesium intake, but not a dual runner. The dyno hp/tq figures looked similar to the 01’ Cobra, much more low end torque though. It’d be interesting to see the difference. Granted the 03-04’ 4v cylinder heads are different from from all the other 4v’s. The best flowing 4v cyl heads for peak power being the 00’ CobraR(extreme limited production) The best flowing 4v cyl heads for all around power and torque being the 03-04’ Mach1/Cobra/Aviator. 01’ and earlier 4v Cobra heads were not the best flowing but could be massaged decently to produce good power. Early 2000’s I had a friend with a 96’ Cobra who had a limited production(less than 100) intake manifold, stock heads. Stock engine, any and all bolt ons for the time, no cams at time of dyno. Dyno tuned, in 2001, to 300hp and 250tq. But the torque curve was stagnant, straight across, from 2500rpm all the way to 6500rpm. At the time is was unheard of. The power was linear. Before you knew it you were in triple digits. My Mach1 punched you in the back, you knew the whole time you were headed to triple digits. 01’ and earlier heads are why Ford went back to the drawing board and skipped 02’ 4v 4.6L’s all together. They never produced the claimed power output.
Important to note, for the uninitiated: Mach1/Aviator had all aluminum NA 4v 4.6L with different intake manifolds. Cobra(Terminator) had aluminum heads/iron block 4v 4.6L with a roots type supercharger for the intake.
Great comparison, I do love the little 4.6.
My old f150 had the 4.6 lol
A 2V intake manifold test would be cool to see.
YES, WE NEED THE TRICKFLOW bullit style INTAKE TEST! also victor jr, PI, non PI, truck, etc.
I did that
Richard Holdener I thought had but wasn’t sure. I’ll dig through your videos. Thanks!
Yeah the adapters are definitely for unique wow factor only. But on that same note would’ve been cool to see an a real GT40 cobra or the Explorer psuedo-cobra intake get tested.
It would be cool to see some B head 4V stuff, seems no one gives them any love.
That be sweet
Indeed
I tested those too
What are the B Heads? Are those the 96-98 4V Cobras? I had a 96 and I absolutely loved it!
@@TheVenom8343 yes the mark 8 and 96-98 cobra had b heads. I once had a 97 cobra for several years I loved it. They really like the rev and dont have the midrange the c head cars do (especially the mach 1 which I also owned). Give em a ported short runner intake, some nice cams and fbo and you can make in the upper 300 rwhp range and with 4.30 gears out back they can be a menace lol.
5.0L Ford Dyno Tests is a great read, brother.
thnx-I just found an old copy
I love the cobra motors.
Can’t wait for the 3v test... with boss/frp intake and CMCV’s on and off the engine...
Nice to find a channel that does tests similar to what I think about sometimes. I have a 99 Cobra engine sitting in storage that needs rebuilt, and also no car to put it in, but it does make me wonder what's possible.
I think the adaptors are awesome they are a middle ground between the mod vs pushrod debate, opens up more options for the engine
That factory 01 cobra intake is like that ls3 intake hard to beat.
Hey Ritchard when you get bored can you do a spark plug indexing video and tuning without a o2 sensor heat range timing mark ect would be a great video.
Awesome test as always! The only one I would’ve like to have seen but you may be able to get it....is a dual inlet intake used on a prototype car called the cobra competition.
I would have liked to have the seen the 00+ Lincoln Continental intake manifold.
The only other intake i can think of for a 4.6 4v is the fr500c. It was dual plenum with air horns kinda like a ir. It was rare and very expensive. I had a 96 cobra and loved driving that car. It sounded better and was more fun to drive than my coyote.
Yes, this would have been the other intake I would have been interested in. Those motors did have 5.0 litres and used Ford GT heads, though.
Would love to see a test like this with the injectors mounted high on the tubes to capture the charge cooling benefit that often gets attributed to carbs.
I have some mounted in the plenums
It seems like the mach 1/cobra intake is hard to beat for what is otherwise a lightly modified 4v. This is extremely informative, thank you rich. Im in the process of building my modular and I know now I made the correct choice when I bought the mach 1 intake.
Lotta guys look specifically for the 03/04 mach intakes today for a reason. They're not an overpriced aftermarket unit, and they flow very well even in stock for. A lot are cut up and modified into long, medium, and short runner units. Very cool pieces.
Yes! Please more 4.6 4V stuff.
Hey Richard! I have an "Other Guys" suggestion for the TurboFord guys... The Ford 2.3L 140 L4 Lima. Let's see what you can make one do! :D
Would love to see a big bang on the stock N/A bottom end... If I don't beat you to it first! *chuckles*
86 svo owner here
I'd like to see the Lincoln mark viii vs cobra intake manifold test maybe the continental you know the ones we can find in a wrecking yard vs that cobra manifold from 96-98
Would like to see a cylinder head test with different valve angles while trying to hold flow and valve size constant.
With those adapters, I'd like to see the F28 302 edelbrock intake, 2 4bbl made for carters. I ran that for years on the street with progressive linkage in my 83 mustang. 24mpg on the highway using the primaries of the back carb and 5mpg when using them all drag racing on the weekends, lol. Love that intake! Doesn't fit the 460 in the stang now but it's in the garage waiting for a "someday " project.
Awesome info. MMR makes adapters for the 5.0L Coyote intakes that work on the 99-01, 03/04 Cobra/Mach/Aviator heads. I would love to see this test with a Boss 302 or Cobra Jet intake!
Always wondered how the Aviator intake would work cut, ported and a custom upper allowing a a dual style cobra throttlebody. Also wondered on my 96 Cobra if I could somehow make the IMRC control work to control the runners.
I had no clue there were so many options for intakes for the 4v... no clue. lol
Awesome test!
I think that the adapter may have played a role if the transition wasn't smooth enough. I think generally speaking the change in shape of the runner is not as important as a change in cross section which will greatly effect the pressure waves.
Impressed with the results from the adjustable intake. sometimes simple gets the job done!
Curious on thoughts on gm 3800 ln3 style intake. Basically has the runners flare straight from the plenum. They produce huge low end torque considering they have no runner to speak of.
Love to see a test on the Coyote 5.0 adapters and intakes
this test was like 20 years ago. Please realize this.
@@ryanmalin and he said he would love to se the coyote intakes tested....
@@ryanmalin C'mon dude, Richard LITERALLY says "what intakes would you like to see tested?" - do you really think that he can't perform more tests? He literally does this for a living(lucky bastard!)
[Coyote intakes only fit 5.4s though - but we could use a 5.4 intake shootout too...]
Awesome video Richard. How about adaptor plates and test coyote Manifolds! Also,
At that power level do you think the aviator throttle body/upper Manifold was a restriction? How much more radical were the Hyland stage 1 cams vs stock? Would the B head Lincoln mk8 Manifold come anywhere close to the 01 cobra/aviator (I know it's apples and oranges, I've never seen good Dyno numbers
I saw the notification and went OoooOoh
Would like to see the Lincoln MarkVIII dual length manifold!
I can here the LS guys saying hey whats up with all those extra valves? That's not fair.
It's ok ls's still flow more
Or more likely, what's up with that dumbass, Why didn't he just get a coyote?
For sure the adaptor sectional change is hurting horsepower, but none of these intakes was a patch on the LS3 5.1 liter destroked 4.8 crank 6.0 liter engine you took to 633 hp at 8000 rpm with Dual Quads. Down here, Cobra heads on 5.4 liter DJR 320 Falcons made 429 hp at 5250 rpm. Thats were it buttons off for anything not gasflowed with broaching for better cams and ports. With the 4.6, it has the same need to controll the shape from the carb venturis to the intake valve you noted in the 8.2 and 9.5 deck Quad TWM carb tests. The short deck engines are always gonna suffer unless the individual legs are given a nice even section. Die grinding "gifted to you for testing purposes" intakes is not looked on with favor. Any increase in power that looses as much torque as every other intake proves Ford was on the right track with the stock 01 Cobra Dee Cobra Daa.Holley Hi Ram with the right size Dominator Holleys and profile the adaptor to suit the 4V head wide section change and you will get 475 to 520 hp at 6750 rpm if the heads and cam can support the flow. The Mod 4Vs are special, but need Special Attention to get the same kind of specfic power even a destroked 6.0 with Dual Quads can.
They already did that back when Engine Master's Challenge allowed Modulars in, where they absolutely destroyed everything else - because, you know, 2v heads can't fuck with 4v heads(LOL @ LSxs "flowing more"...) - and set a new points record for ECM
...and after John Mihovetz sent stock production Modular block & heads(and crank) down the 1/4 quicker than any LSx has ever sniffed. I believe the quickest LSx is still David Adkins' 1/4 pass from 2018 where he went 5.97 @ 243... ...with a Noonan billet block... ...and Baker Eng billet heads...
Mihovetz has been 5.88 @ 250(has been as fast as 254) with an aluminum Teksid('91-'98ish 4.6) block and GT500 heads, stock displacement. Both cars are 2300lb chassis cars of course.
It's simple math - factory parts(including 4v heads) out running aftermarket billet(including 2v heads), and by 7+MPH too
@@RyTrapp0 that's amazing, I need to reference this comment next time someone tells me to just LS swap my mod motor mustang.
Great work. Unfortunately that lack of aftermarket support for the mod motors limits your options.
What do you mean by that. I have had no issues finding parts for the first generation modular platform.
@@akassasin5768 really ? So what aftermarket heads / intake manifolds have you found for the dohc 4.6 ? Besides Sullivan
Ford made like 6 different heads for the 4.6/5.4. I don't know how many different intakes but probably 10. As for aftermarket offerings you are correct...there aren't a lot. But that is probably because one of the factory intakes will probably work in most people's application. I would be interested to see what an ITB set up can do. In my opinion it is probably unnecessary because about everyone making real power with these engines is running some form of forced induction. One problem I see with all of these tests is that they require the "C" heads. I would like to see what can be done with the "B" heads. There is definitely a lack of intake manifold choices for a 4.6 with the "B" heads.
I wonder if a well built 2v would make as much power as a well built 4 valve. If so it would definitely be cheaper. Half the cams,half the valves,half the springs,retainers etc. I suppose it would rev faster and higher with less valvetrain to articulate.
Anyone care to share any facts on this subject .
Thanks
How about the down draft set up with ingeles carbs? Borla intake? Could you run a tri power set up with the KarKraft adaptors??? What would those do?
Let's cam the hell outta all those combos and see what's what! Lol
You're awesome,man! Keep the dynamic science coming.
It'd amazing Ford did all this work to the 4.6 and whole the 3v did good power you got wild looking combos with the "other 4.6s" I don't think 500 crank dyno hp woulda been hard to get with some compression and cammage
Craig : In Australia, they used the Cobra and Navigator 5.4 Quad Cam intake and 82mm MAF to make sure the 2002 5.6 liter GT40P headed stock bore 342 made over 335 hp at 5250 rpm. In another two years, the same kind of intake made 429 hp at 5250 rpm with a Quad Cam US export 5.4 liter engine. The adaptor plate is perfect for a Hi Ram Holley. Again, Ford was planning all this for a very long time. The Trickflow Box R is a lot like the 5.4 Quad cammer upper plenumb.
Great analysis, thank you!
Dude, I love this stuff!
The 99 continental had adapters from the factory to run a B-head intake manifold on C heads. I would like to see those used to run a 96-98 Cobra intake on the C heads. Also a shortened runner 99/01 Cobra intake would be cool!
was not aware of those adapters
Can't remember where I saw it but some intake had ITBs and as it revved up and down the trumpets were lifted up and down to change the intake runner length. I think it might be an i4 bike or i6 bmw. Cool stuff and not overly complex (simple leverage and servo setup).
Yamahas r1 has something similar but it lifts the long runners OFF of the short ones so the transition won't be as nice.
It was the 787b four-rotor rotary engine that won Le Mans. Naturally aspirated, 2.6L, 700-800hp.
Would love to see a test on all the fancy intake manifold spacers 1in 2in super suckers ect.
With all of those "I'm still not done", I'm starting to think you may be related to the late great Billy Mays.
Yeah, that's exactly who I was thinking about when he was saying that. "But wait, there's more!!!" Haha, funny shit.
BUT WAIT! THERE’S MORE!
Carb looks cool on the 4.6
Box R with a proper mod motor lower would be a decent combo. Just to much going on with the adapter plates going from a sbf port to the 4v port. Probably be similar to the short runner FR500 intake
I have absolutely NO idea why TFS never released a Modular lower that accepted their Windsor uppers, especially after releasing the 2v heads. Well, I say I have no idea, but let's just say that they also designed their own 4v Modular head too, but it never got produced because the mod motor isn't a "popular" engine with most of the TFS staff apparently. I guess it was a hard enough fight just to get the 2v heads made...
You should try a SBF tunnel ram on that engine.
Those adapter plates are neat
Great video Rich!
Thanks!
I'd be very interested to see one of these 4 valve engines in a big bang test!
If anything I'd say use a more free flowing 302 intake and check the port match on the adapters. Some rubbing on the adapters + a victor intake and I bet the sbf intake could compete.
IT'S NOT A PORT MATCH PROBLEM-ITS THE ADAPTERS AND ANGLES
I mentioned this before, and i realize there is likely not enough space in the dyno room, (and time !) but it would be so helpful to have engine weights as tested because you almost always have the same accessory setup for every test on every engine which would end lots of speculation about how heavy each engine combination is; apples to apples, so to speak . . . (um, type?).
The GT40 intake as found on the explorer, then a ported GT40 intake, And perhaps port the adapter if it can be.....Would love to see something like that for the 2v modular and I can't forget the 5.4's those in particular seem to have not very many options...
Those 5.0 intakes might be better on the 2V motors. How about testing the Edelbrock 4.6 Victor Jr. on the 2V? I've seen them installed, but I don't know how they perform. Thanks.
I’ve always wondered about the 99-02 C-head Continental manifolds? They are different from every design you’ve tested here and may offer an alternative
Would have been interesting to put the Weiand 2x4 tunnel ram on.
Would be cool if you could set an engine up like this with 2 different runner lengths one to each intake valve 8 short run and 8 long run one of each to each cylinder
the FR500 was tested here
Only good way get SBF adapters to perform well is to install a blower intake with roots blower. Boost will make up for flow issues. Run BDS 210 or 220 whichever size blower is. It's beefed up 177 Weiland can get single or dual 4bbl set up.
Be interesting to perform a comparison between port fuel injection vs carburetion, on a BB Chevrolet.
I would like to see whether the "charge cooling", and longer evaporation times achievable with a carburetor, would offset the pathetic natural mixture distribution characteristics of that particular engine.
introducing fuel at the carb flange vs port will always show more power regardless of the test motor
@@richardholdener1727 Even though port injection facilitates correction of the uneven F/A issues inherent to the BBC head design?
Have you tried this particular experiment?
I'm a Ford guy and the 4.6 design is the future........why does Ford always try to do more with less cubes? If you look at the LS pushrod motors critically from an engineering standpoint they are very simple "Flintstone-type" motors that use all the hot rod tricks we've learned over the years, and.......they make damn good power. Please Ford, gimme more cubes always....not just at the odd times you feel like it. Adaptors? That's a damn poor way to 'crutch' a design.
The future is smaller engines I4,I6,V6. Supercharger, turbos.
Ford has a new 2 valve ohv truck engine more cubes!
They need to start selling more crates, we need a 4.6 2v and 4v crate, a 460 crate, a 302 crate, a 351 crate, a coyote crate a "boss 6.2" crate, a 7.3l Godzilla crate, and ecoboos crate, a 6.8 crate, a voodoo crate, and a predator crate (maybe a powerboat kit too in a few years)(yes I know they already offer several of these, but we need a full selection)
@@Prestiged_peck That is a champion idea! The more, the better.
@@tpeace2160 Yup, I forgot that......wonder if it has the parts to produce more power or is it in the modular family? Thanks.
You missed the FR500 GT intake built for Grand Cup racing. The motor made 500hp plus.
I tested the FR500
I wonder how short you could go???? What if you mounted 8 individual mechanical fuel injector units at each intake port?
I have a set of ITB's from a BMW 5.0 V10. I am going to look into mounting those to adapters and running twin turbos with twin air to water intercoolers. Looking for a streetable 1000hp. Teksid block,Kellogg stock stroke crank,Molnar power adder rods...not sure of pistons yet but will try to run as close to 11 to 1 compression as possible. E85 of course.
Biggest question is whether to port,polish,modify the "B" heads or go with some 'C" 9 thread heads.
The 4 thread B heads are of some concern.
You could test the 03/04 cobra intercooled intake with out a blower. Na vs na and then you can run ice water through it and see what an all motor intercooled set up if its worth it with cooler air charge even though not pressurized above atmosphere maybe the lower temp can get more timing or cuase less detonation. But if charge cooling works for carburetors on wet style manifold it should help efi manifolds also but in a dry way.
After my CO2 spray bar on my intercooler of my subaru dropped me 1.5 seconds in the quarter mile in vegas summer i always thought of random ways to cool the air charge as much as possible. C02 spray bar would of been cool(no pun intended) to see on the water/meth vs intercooled test.
You need to do a multiple intake test with the 5.7 hemi and the CompCam 201-428-17 camshaft
would love to see a 2 X4 tunnel ram used with the adapters
Madd props, always a great vid
You forgot the 96-98 intake on the cobra intake manifold
Different heads
@@boostedsaleen6146 there are adapters available. The SRI 96-98 intake is pretty good, better than most here.
@@OxBlitzkriegxO damn so the 96-98 cobra has no options then
@@michoacanom4320 Welcome to the world of Ford Modulars - where power from a measly 300HP to 3000HP is made with factory parts because, yea, it's not like you have a choice...
@@OxBlitzkriegxO hard to beat that 01 ported cobra intake for NA.
Awesome video. I guess ill stick with my stock 2001 cobra intake for now. What if it was ported? Is it worth the trouble?
If you dont have cams you'll be slowing your charged and loosing power, if you've got like stage 1.5+ cams you're probably gonna gain because porting=more air and more air+more fuel=more power.
old comment here but testing the hpp upper intake would be a nice test.
Id love for you to test the 98 cobra stock intake with imrc deletes and a wilson front feed elbow with a large mm tb. Had no clue these car craft adapters were available! Also, id like to see how turbo boost affects the trick flow box intake, 98 stock cobra intake, 2001 stock intake, and sullivan efi intake with a single blade tb, and aviator intake above 5k rpm
the 98 intake needs 98 B heads
We need this test on a 331 stroker.
Great work Richard. How about a true adjustable dual plane-dual plenum intake, with a throttle body in the crossover that opens (at higher RPMs) to create a quasi single plane intake-Dual plane low end torque and top end single plane HP. What say you Richard? Thank you.
not sure how you can have a dual plenum and a dual plane, but I've already done the throttle body in the divider
@@richardholdener1727 to clarify, I'm suggesting modifying your fabricated intake to act like a carb dual plane intake. Each plenum connected to half the engine based on the firing order. Then utilizing a throttle body in your crossover that when closed, will provide low speed torque, and when open, connecting the two plenums together, extending the power curve as rpm increases.