New Science Says Plant Protein is Superior | What the Fitness | Biolayne
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- Опубліковано 25 сер 2022
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My compromise is using half ground beef and half cooked lentils in a lot of bulk cooking. I made a grass fed ground beef/lentil Mexican casserole today with rice, corn, onions, peppers, rotel and taco seasoning. Protein, carbs, veggies and very low in fat. Works for me.
Love this video series! You are by far my favorite source of data driven nutritional knowledge
the "what the fitness" videos are fantastic, this one included. Thanks for making them mate.
Great video Layne! Love how much I learn from you.
So much quality stuff, forever greatful for your work 🙏
This 'What the Fitness' video is great! A must watch. Very well explained by Layne.
It's also BS science. No, plant based protein is mostly incomplete and full of anti-nutrient lectins that can damage the intestines in quantity.
Excellent riposte thanks for the thorough and efficient rebuttal as usual!
Great material, keep up the good work!
Great breakdown on the study. It’s fascinating how limited all these studies are in perspective. It goes to show how little we know. If anything they leave you asking more questions.
Thank you for always being data-driven, objective, implementing crucial context of certain facts, and overall just being highly informative and unbiased Layne. Your knowledge and hard work is appreciated.
I don’t know about unbiased.
@@truefitness3277 I believe we all have some level of bias but there are very few that keep that bias to a minimum and focus on the data as Layne does. But that's just my opinion.
@@truefitness3277 you think he's biased? towards what? He's already criticised multiple keto or carnivore videos. If anything, he's biased towards having a balanced diet with a variety of foods .
@@animatedmvs8818 several of his claims here are BS and Matthew Nagra has reached out to him for sources when it comes to some lf the his claims about plant proteins etc, which Biolayne refused to have a discourse about and he didn't change anything when being critcized.
@@beratbra2407 That's because every man believes he's right and Layne is no exception...
Layne you are one of my top sources of nutrition science. Love your work and logic. But I would really appreciate (and possibly others as well) if you would post the links of the studies you are referring to. For example I'd love to see the study that compares people who eat meat & veg compared to only veg (7:20 in this clip). Thank you for sharing your knowledge!
Cause there epidemiology studies that prove nothing.thats why he doesnt
Awesome content as always
3:36 pea protein should be mentioned here as being cheap, widely available and having comparable (though admittedly lower) leucine amounts compared to whey. Whey is 10-
-13% and pea protein is 8-9%.
And whey give some people digestive issues . We aren't ruminants but not also carnivores eating raw meats (still needs to be cooked) 😊.
Layne: Thanks for pointing out that cohort study. I'm unsure why it took so long for a higher quality cohort study to be conducted that actually took into account specific dietary pattern metrics, but it was illuminating on this whole debate and the inconsistencies regularly found in this area of study.
Have you got a link for the study?
Boom 💥 great info! Thank you
Great content doc!
Very helpful as well as democratic and tactful.
Keep the good work.
Great video thanks
curious as to why hemp protein is not mentioned as a favored source of plant protein
Rice beans corn quinoa seeds nuts all combine well.
Hi Layne, could you please share the cohort study comparing different levels of meat consumption? Thanks 🙏🏼
Thank you for the great education and basing your information on reliable and valid data.
My nutritionist said that pea protein was superior... that it had appetite-suppressing properties. Doesn't matter to me, I guess. I am lactose intolerant, so I'm better off with a pea protein shake!
Can you please share the study with the highest amount of meat and plant intake compared?
What was that cohort study concerning high meat/high plant and cancer? Would love to dig into that.
Thanks 🙏
Great information. Personally I try to get most of my protien from animal products but only use plant based protien when I am trying to get to a certain amount of protien in my meal and maybe shirt 5 or 10 grams then I use items like peanuts...beans...or chochos to get me there
"The current science is really really clear" that made me chuckle
I tried plant base protein and hated it. Why? Because it makes me so gassy and I fart way too much. My fart really stinks...seriously. The gassy and farts disappeared several days after I stopped taking plant proteins.
😂
Truth
Don't eggs and whey do the same? Also it takes time for gut flora to adjust for any new diet.
😂stop lying 🤥
you just have a lose sphincter
i mix legumes with corn/wheat types. for example white beans with pasta. gives you over 100grs perfect bioavailable protein, because the different lacking amino acids complete each other. aalso high in leucine.
You have to de-rate the protein by it’s PDCAAS (or DiAAS method). Also 100g isn’t enough unless you’re a small woman.
@@SLude480 of course, that’s just dinner. Plus I do eat meats and eggs, but only high quality, so like 3 times a week.
@@SLude480 you should do a video on how to measure the bioavailability!
@@SLude480 Even PDCAAS is not a very accurate measure as it just looks at the nitrogen balance and we don't know how much is absorbed by the body vs how much gut flora consume.
I wasn't getting enough fiber and protein and having two or more plant protein shakes daily almost feels revolutionary for my energy, damn. Almost ZERO cravings for junkfood. Up that protein and fiber, your cravings might just fade away effortlessly, absolutely wild. I imagine most Americans probably only hit about half or less of their recommended fiber and protein levels most days - especially fiber). The powders can last almost 2 weeks, for $20ish that's a way more worthy investment than how much 2 weeks of junkfood can add up to and the protein and fiber boost might strangely reduce the desire for them. Using an app to keep up with macros and calories might be helpful and fun too - I like the LoseIt one but there are several.
This ties into something else that bugs me about the fitness space, the constant chase for the optimal diet or training plan. Most of us don’t need optimal; we’re not trying to be professionals or break world records. We probably can’t or won’t arrange the rest of our lives around fitness enough to take full advantage of that optimality anyway. Most of us just need something that’s pretty good and fits our lifestyle so we can do it consistently. If that’s plant-based, OMAD, or whatever else, awesome.
Problem is, plants are not a good source of protein, they are mostly carbs. You will waste your time lifting weights if you only eat plants.
That's something that I was thinking about aswell. For some, if not most of these "influencers" or "biohackers" and whatnot, this is actually their LIFE. They do this stuff all the time and they will eventually lean into very nuance aspects of these things, plus the possible bias, sponsorships, feedback-loop from people who had positive experiences, financial motivation and so forth. So not only will there be nuances at play, but they may also cost an exponential amount of time and/or money and/or effort to put into practice. And in my opinion, most of these folks are weak and will turn into biased sellouts of some kind eventually.
@@drumzh41 Legumes are mostly carbs as well. In addition, plants are incomplete proteins, they don’t have the all essential amino acids. Tofu has Trypsin inhibitors, doesn’t allow the digestion of protein…Instead, you can simply eat meat and get an abundant quality source of protein and grow.
@@drumzh41 Nobody is saying you can’t survive on a plant diet, however, the typical man who works hard outdoors or in garages, factories, mines, mills, soldiers, etc., will need meat to thrive with strength and virility.
@@drumzh41 Plants are not a good source of protein, low in quantity and low in quality. Muscles don’t grow without protein.
Will lower fiber sources of plant protein have a higher bioavailability? Such as tofu. Tends to be a decent source of protein (a block of superfirm has somewhere around 70 grams), but it's also a moderately processes food and has little fiber.
If fiber interferes with protein absorption, it likely isn't enough that anyone would notice. Most people are getting in way too much protein as it is.
That said, get around 100 grams of protein per day, get 80% of my calories from whole plant foods, take in 65 grams to 80 grams of fiber (typical) with spikes up to 100 grams fiber per day depending on what I am eating. But 65 grams to 70 grams is almost every day. Even when I am sick I still hit 50 grams.
But, coming from the bro-science world and taking in double the amount of protein that I take in now but also half the fiber I take in now, I have not noticed any loss of strength, endurance, etc. so I assume my muscle mass is about the same as before. I did lose body fat though by getting most calories from whole plant foods.
But the process of denaturing proteins starts in the stomach so even if proteins get bound up in fiber they almost certainly get unbound through the digestive process.
Well, all that word salad and with all the stuff I have read about diet and nutrition I can't even recall reading anything about how protein can get bound up in fiber. Other compounds can, but never heard of protein being one of them
Hey Layne, could you please refer the studies mentioned here? Thanks!
The problem is all these people dont really have a clue, but they hear any Information put smth at the top of it n put it on the Internet… n the worst case is when they call themselves „health doctors“… damn, god, it gettin really worse with all that new n old sience shit 🤦♀️
Thanx… nice video ❤❤❤
You always gotta see who is funding or conducting the studies
I've been trying this new whey made by bacteria from My protein. I'm lactose sensitive, so having a whey protein that's exactly like dairy whey (their claim) is awesome. So far the salted caramel flavor is the best
have you looked to see if it is cheaper than hydrosolate or hydrolysed form of whey?
Love the charity her diversity of it
I’ve had good luck switching to mostly plant based at home and whatever elsewhere. Tempeh, TVP and even soy protein are all pretty cheap, cheaper than animal products. They also don’t go bad and are easier to cook for the lazy home cook. It’s not all or nothing.
My approach is a novel one, and it is to eat a well-balanced diet rather than taking an extreme approach.
What a legit, honest discussion. Layne bringing the science as usual.
Also, only 2:42 until PHD reference? That is saddening.
HE didn't said no more, he said LESS LIKELY
*Didn't say
The older I get the more whey protein concentrate, isolate and casein destroy my stomach. Even with lactaid pills, it's just too rough.
Try Soy isolate
Do half whey half hemp protein
I used to get stomach problems too, but I eventually found that culprit was sucralose and one other sweetener that triggers me. It tastes awful but I can handle a 2 ingredient whey protein isolate
@@foraminutethere23 It was the whey unfortunately not the sucarolse, ace-k, aspartame, monkfruit or stevia.
@@marcdaniels9079 Pea works best for me. No bad gas no stomach cramps.
Fermentation, longer cooking methods, adequate stomach acid and gut bacteria. You can increase digestion of protein in many ways. Cheese, tempeh, yogurt etc let bacteria do part of the process for you.
Layne did his PHD on protein metabolism. I think he knows this.
Link your research sources please
Bro reinvented science 🥹
According to the new science, cricket protein is the best.
Now eat your crickets and be happy.
The problem with a vegetarian diet is that if you increase your protein intake to 1 gram per lb of bodyweight, you have to increase your fiber intake also. 70 grams of fiber per day could cause constipation and bloating.
Yeah, surprised he didnt mention this. I have heard vegans chained to the toilet all day. If its not 2 its 1; you have to drink boatloads of water
The amount of carbs would be insane.
I think context matters here. The average person and the average patient for that matter is incredibly unhealthy at baseline and eats a terrible diet. They're also not looking to maximally build the most possible amount of muscle they can, they are looking at doing the least amount of work for the most amount of gain. Plant sources of protein also happen to come with heart healthy fats and exceptionally healthy fiber on top of being loaded with phytonutrients, vitamins, minerals, and other compounds that may reduce risk of metabolic disease and cancers. The average person is not going to see the benefit of maximizing their animal protein intake. There are also other things to consider as well, like the cost of the protein. It's going to be easier and cheaper to get someone to eat a larger bowl of whole grains as their breakfast or add a cup of peas to their dinner than it is to have them essentially add another meal to their day by eating a portion of lean meat which no one is going to do, they'll opt for 80/20 beef or whole fat dairy or bacon or sausage etc.
I think this just highlights the difference between a researcher and bodybuilder that minmaxes nutritional intake and a clinician dealing with the average person with the stresses of the average lifestyle.
I have been eating a plant-based diet for the guts of 4 years and I am the strongest and most muscular I have ever been.
I typically eat 80-100 grams of protein per day at a bodyweight of around 75kg. No powders, just food.
Anytime I have experimented ramping up my protein intake I ended up feeling worse and my performance was negatively impacted.
How many times pers day do you need to eat? And what are your protein sources? Would love to know because plant-based was both horrible for my gut health and my psoriasis. I was also hungry all the time and I felt like a crackhead with my diet. For me, animal based is so simple. I buy one local animal and it lasts me the entire year. Saving on purchasing tons of plastics all year from all over the map just feed my insatiable need for variety.
Oh and I wasted away on plant-based. Lost a lot of my muscle.
its most likely not the protein thats causing the problem, its the increased quantity of whatever plant youre getting the protein from.
Thank you for another very informative video. I wanted to inquire about your thoughts on the effects of the cordyceps mushroom as a supplement for athletes. Either your opinion on it as the next new thing in supplements based on the studies or a breakdown on the last human study (I know there are animal models but I'm not sure how strong/applicable they are). Great video once again, thank you sharing the gift of education
It's pretty much the same as mildronat but with lesser impact on advanced fitness level
Is there a mechanism in which high-levels of supplemental DHEA could cause fatty liver and or primary biliary cirrhosis?
Are you saying the high fructose corn syrup I drizzle over my pancakes won't get me jacked to the gills?
There's "something" our body loves.....I'm sold 🤣🤣
Great info for vegans! Thank you!
Eat the bugs, own nothing and be happy.
Hello my fellow WEF comrade.
Bugs are unironically good protein tho. I don’t eat them bc why would I if I eat meat, but someone who doesn’t eat animals for moral reasons should consider it
@@jebbush2527 they're actually poor sources, most of the "protein" is non-digestible chitin and keratin. You're better off with soy or legumes in a mixed powder. Or meat
@@jebbush2527 Crickets are not animals? They certainly are not clean for human consumption.
WEF should be bulldozed to the ground
Where does collagen fall on this egg/whey/plant spectrum? Im under the impression collagen is pretty poor.
Why didn't you mention foods like Hemp or Tofu, or any beans really? Meeting Leucine requirements on a WFV diet, sans supplementation, is almost easy at this stage.
Because of the fiber
I’d like you to review your plant protein bioavailability claim. You claim 50-60-70 percent available. I’ve heard others suggest plant protein is about 6-8 percent less bio available than animal sources. That’s a big difference!
You have muscle protein synthesis but does every cell not synthesise protein too ? Does kind of protein affect the synthesis of cellular protein ?
That has more educational tone to it than a rant WTF haha. But Great video and informative nonetheless
Where do they get Creatine without beef or fish? And the B12 from meat is better than plant.
Most people are just b12 deficient in general and should supplement it anyway. You can supplement creatine monohydrate as it is usually synthesized from sarcosine and cyanamide.
One is non essential the other essential.
Vitamin B12 is not found in plants. Vegans need to supplement vitamin B12.
But if maximum muscle mass if your goal, then you're automatically getting higher calories. If higher calories and meat are correlated with shorter lives, is it a good idea to maximze mucle mass? I get that you want to be strong and fit, and perhaps be in the top 1% of fitness levels, but that's different than maximizing muscle mass.
I think the point here is what you do with the excess protein. It is down to training and you don't need to consume as much calories from animal sources to get the same amount of bioavailable protein.
Muscular strength is inversely and independently associated with all cause mortality in men after adjusting for cardiorespiratory fitness and other confounding factors.
@@jnrrpg I think the science is clear on muscle strength, but not muscle size. For example, if we look at two categories of people 175 - 185 lbs vs 215 -225, and we assume same or similar height, bodyfat for each group and that each group is in the top 1% of strength for their respective weights. Who lives longer and healthier? That's my basic question. I don't think there is an answer to the question based on current studies. My theory is that the extra mass would be a detriment, but I have no science to back that up. My theory is that the extra weight might be deleterious on joints and that the organs would have to work harder to support the extra muscle. However, I could also see the extra muscle being protective if one had cancer or other serious illness. (The larger mass could help stop someone from wasting away and give someone more time to allow recovery treatments to be effective.)
Edit : "Relatively high muscle mass may not be beneficial to blood pressure regulation."
Korhonen PE, Mikkola T, Kautiainen H, Eriksson JG. Both lean and fat body mass associate with blood pressure. Eur J Intern Med. 2021
Love the videos biolayne. Curious on your thoughts on l-carnitine from meat increasing TMAO levels and how that plays into cancer?
The Epidemiology of Red Meat and Cancer
Of those 800+ epidemiological studies, a mere 29 were put forth by the WHO as “informative” about the connection between unprocessed red meat and colorectal cancer.
Of those 29 studies, 14 suggested that red meat was associated with a higher risk for colorectal cancer in humans; 15 of them did not.
The Epidemiology of Processed Meat and Cancer
As for processed meat, the WHO chose 27 of the 800+ studies to make its case for the cancer connection.
Of those 27 studies, 18 suggested that processed meat was associated with a higher risk for colorectal cancer in humans; 9 did not.
Its only an issue if you mega dose it as a supplement, and no research linking supplementation to cancer the last I checked. Worst case you use injectable and bypass it
TMAO is not an issue if you eat an evolutionarily appropriate diet for humans. It's just another miss from people who want people to eat less meat.
Eat garlic with said meat if you are worried.
@@VerySeriousUser There is no such thing called an evolutionarily appropriate diet. Cooking with fire is the most unnatural thing we did and that is the only thing that differentiated us from animals. Even most plants and animals we eat nowadays are selectively bred by us and not part of any natural evolution.
This is the reason I still follow Layne despite the fact that he is not loved in the Low Carb community. He knows his protein as his teacher is the master Jedi of protein 😎
A feedback on the general approach: you mention "to maximize anabolic growth... " which makes sense. However, that only concerns a tiny minority of people looking into health and nutrition, probably even a minority in your audience.
So to enlarge the reach and usefulness of your video, it may make sense to look at your typical viewer as health-interested, rather than body-building interested.
Otherwise, 10/10 as usual
Here's the interesting counter to that. When they give sedentary seniors a good boost of animal protein (maybe 25-30 grams minimum per day) they increase their lean muscle mass just doing nothing. However, they get no appreciate gain from the same amount of plant protein. Sarcopenia is a real concern among seniors and most seniors under eat protein. And since you bones are 50% it help build strong bones too.
@@claybutler Thanks for sharing, that's interesting.
However, I was referring here to Layne's advice on "nutrition for bodybuilders", which is a minority of the audience
@@ThePowerMoves True, but it turns out that the bodybuilding advice around protein holds true for sedentary people as well. Due to an athlete's enhanced ability to utilize protein, sedentary people may even need more protein as they age, compared to a fit person, due to anabolic resistance. That's why a senior needs more protein than a teenager. They utilize protein less efficiently and have a hard time triggering muscle protein synthesis. The tenager is basically on natural steroids and utilize their protein exceptionally well so can afford to be more sloppy with their diet.
Yeah, I know the optimal levels for growth, idk what I need when I'm not lifting, not gaining or losing weight
@@MyCommentsRMaturelol I'd say they are the same.There is no harm in a high protein diet but definite harm from under eating protein. I think everyone should try to eat as much protein as possible. There is no downside and only upside. And protein is pretty filling. If a typical person eat a 16oz steak, they will be satisfied for many hours. So I don't know how someone could eat a theoretical amount of "too much protein".
So if 20% or so of the protein from beans never actually get digested, shouldn't foods with fiber have their nutritional labels adjusted, or is that already compensated for?
Ideally the protein section of the label should have the DIAAS score and breakdown of the main aminoacids, similar to the fats.
@@Gengh13 so we're not using Protein Digestibility Corrected Amino Acid Score anymore?
@@Gengh13 I don't think the DIAAS score is actually accurate
@@Joseph1NJ not anymore, PDCAAS has a lot of limitations, that's why DIAAS was created.
Sounds like he’s making valid claims on dietary patterns as a whole (plant based, typically more fiberous, better outcomes than common omnivorous diets), but then for some reason uses the word (protein) as if that’s the same thing.
He also seems to compare healthy plant diets to poor omnivorous diets, but I guess it makes sense in the clinical context of „patients objecting to increasing plant consumption because of concerns about protein quality“.
Well bro you may have a point with this new science thing.... though there are papers who get retracted. Or results that can't be reproduced. There are new analysis methods and analyzers or plain mistakes.
For example bittering quality of different hop acids. So there is old science.
I think what he as a health oriented doctor(?) means with the prefered protein is that meat protein is shown to increase chances of cancer (e.g. processed and red meat are labeled as carcinogens by the WHO) and the fact that plant proteins bring with them the health benefits of increased fiber which is shown to be health increasing (lower colon cancer etc.). Therefore being healthier, living longer with less disease equals eating plant protein. Being jacked is not a health indicator. If you want to be jacked and not care so much about the planet or ultimate health then include animal protein.
Man Layne, I'd give anything to see you debate Dr Joel Fuhrman. You and him are the only ones who ever made a lick of sense on nutrition to me. You guys both crushed Paul Saladino, id live to see you go toe to toe with one of the top WFPB guys.
Layne crushed saladino? I guess you didn't watch the same podcast as everyone else lmfaooo
@@crye088 Its basically settled now. The guy is eating fruit and honey nonstop. His dietary ideology is incoherent and hypocritical, and only appeals to the lowest common denominator of people looking for a WOE
@@tom4705 not personally a carnivore guy, however, saladino clearly indicates by his videos the majority of his diet consists of meat & organs while supplementing with fruit, honey, etc. My comment was in reference to the norton vs saladino debate via the powercast. It's settled, the overall consensus was norton got owned
@@crye088 Anyone who thinks Saladinos way of eating is ideal is not worth taking seriously. Guy scammed thousands with his carnivore code book that he doesn't even believe in anymore. When you think beef fat is healthier than wholesome veggies, you have a problem.
@@tom4705 so eating mostly protein from animal sources mixed with some fruit among other things is bad? Got it, pal
What are your views on TMAO and cholesterol levels in relation to meat and dairy intake? It could be a good topic to discuss potentially.
So what percentage of you daily caloric intake would you suggest to limit animal protein sources? 10%, 20%?
100%. Think about bout the animals
It doesn't take that much planning to get the protein on a plant based diet. It's a lot healthier to take larger amounts of plant based protein powder than whey. Making it very easy. If anything people take to much whey and should be concerned about that
if your sole goal is to add size and mass to your body and have zero concerns for health or disease then yes animal protein is superior for building mass, but that's why plant protein is by design lower in protein and it's availability because it is designed to give you what you need but not give you deleterious effects. Which is what the video was trying to convey. A normal adult who doesn't want to be 50 pounds overweight with muscle
mass does not ever need to consume animal protein as the plant proteins their body can safely consume in large quantities will serve perfectly in a long healthy life.
It is important for maintaining muscle mass too, especially as you get older.
@@aarons9879 but the amount needed to maintain muscle mass when you factor is that 100+ g of amino acids are recycled each day from the intestines , leaves a very small need of getting protein from dietary sources which is why natural foods like plants have small amounts of protein in them because they are not needed in high amounts. If you want to be bigger eat more protein
and fat and lift, if you want to be leaner , eat less protein and fat , and walk /run. Simple equation that works every time it's tried. Most people don't want to be bigger.
They might not want to be bigger but more muscle mass lowers the risk for diabetes because the muscle is a glucose sink
To be fair, he wasn’t talking about body builders, he was talking about the average person, and the average person who isn’t looking to build muscle can definitely eat a plant-based diet and get enough protein without having to supplement with protein powder.
Also, someone eating a standard American diet would definitely benefit from substituting at least some of the animal protein in their diet with plant-based protein sources that are higher in fiber and lower in saturated fat/cholesterol/calories.
Very well said, agreed, and for those of us doing resistance training on a mostly to only plant based diet--pea protein concentrate is a pretty decent to good source of concentrated protein. It is not as high in leucine as animal sources, but it is not terribly behind either. I hope that someday, a combo pea and corn protein concentrate comes to the market. I may be wrong, but I think there are some plant based sources of just leucine though? If so, one could just combine these.
Though not plant based, I would also consider cricket protein powder, as it seems both more ethical* and environmentally sustainable than meat, while being HIGHLY nutritious overall. The high price of it is what keeps me from buying it. I've thought about raising them myself, but right now I'm too busy for that. I'm in the middle of a prototype project where I'm creating a hybrid soft-hard cooler that is primarily vacuum insulated and very light weight and inexpensive (compared to all other vacuum insulated coolers on the market).
*Insects are very, very simple forms of life that are very instinctive in nature. I don't think they experience anything close to the emotional fear or stress of unnatural living conditions, that say cows and especially pigs do. Also, they typically are raised to the end of their short life cycle and then frozen, which is a very painless way to end their life (doubt they are even aware that they are dying--they just go to sleep/go dormant and don't wake up again). They require far, far less water and land/area to grow. They truly are quite nutritious. But people with shell fish allergies may have to be careful with consuming them.
You know about the cholesterol myth, I hope? If not, its worth looking into.
To be fair, he dismissed the difference in bioavailability and protein composition by claiming plant protein is high quality compared to meat protein and did not state that somebody "can" eat a plat-based diet but that it's the "preferred" method. Whatever that means.
If an average person takes this at face value their effective protein consumption will drop if they swap out an equal amount of animal protein for plant protein and think they're doing better because this guy said it's the preferable route.
To be fair, his phrasing implies superiority. If his message was to basically "eat healthier, and you can do that through plant-based" I'd see no issue with it. He's got a plant based book out and is clearly pushing his info in a non-sincere way.
This is exactly the problem with this industry. Every side claims to have the magic pill, and they all cherrypick studies and results to make their claims seem more solidified as if "This is the way." This is why so many people struggle because they fall into a cult, rather than just getting good info.
He may be talking to the average Joe, but he could also let those people know that meat consumption in moderation isn't the worst thing in the world. Being active, eating reasonable amounts of calories, getting your fiber. Strictly switching to plant based isn't the secret, not eating like a glutton is.
But are you really getting much benefit from switching from lean chicken and fish to plant protein isolate without fiber?
Couldn’t wait to get to the comment section cause I knew there’d be some zealots in the crowd!! Let the mental gymnastics begin!!!
For the algorithm 🇵🇹💪
Fucking awesome, Layne🔥🔥🔥
Gdi I was looking for analysis of a new study
Just cheaper to produce for those who paid for the study
With plant based proteins, you will always have more gains because you can lift heavier weights when you don’t also have to carry the weight of what you did to the animals.
??????
Then you think about what you did to all the animals that had to be killed to keep them from eating all your plants...
My late doctor, who lived to the ripe old age of 95 and was still seeing patients, working in his garden at his office, and still tended to the flower beds at his home and took care of the yard as well, once told me, "everything in moderation...3 balanced meals with 2 healthy snacks," (later found out it was basically what Lee Labrada has been teaching). His handshake was firm, he stood up straight and was not hunched over, he walked with a "spring" of a 30 year old, he didn't "shuttle." He made Biden look like the old infirm-ed fool. His mind was strong and healthy, alert, and still sharp, he didn't stutter or mutter to himself. I believe he weighed a "healthy" 120 Lbs...he was slender, no belly, but certainly did not look frail and weak. Basically, he told me to eat "whole foods," stay away from the processed crap, and eat meat, veggies, complex carbs, and low fat, but healthy fats. I don't trust any diet that says eat just this (vegans, carnivore, etc.).
One of my grandmothers lived to 98 and was a 3 meals a day person who stuck rigidly to the meat/fish and two veg. She was never overweight and was walking till her last day. My other grandmother lived to 103 and was also a 3 meals a day person, except hers was more Mediterranean diet and she was overweight her whole life and barely exercised other than short walks to the shop for the last 50 years of her life. She did have colon cancer in her early 70s. She died from complications of falling and breaking a hip. The doctor said her organs like heart and lungs were like a 20 year old.
I also don't trust only something diets, for me it is most of the time for most of the things "medium is premium", balance is best
Biden is very healthy and actually runs and bikes regularly
@@foraminutethere23
She didn’t say Biden didn’t exercise. We all saw him wreck his bike. She indicated that the doctor was in much better shape than Biden.
@@Uncle-Bull it's political/dumb that he'd even mention Biden when the president has outlived most men and has a lower bmi and is more active than most American men. Hes mocking the president calling him an "infirm-ed fool".
People always out here not understanding Leucine.
have you never heard of high protein tofu? also known as extra firm or super firm tofu. 70g of complete protein in a block. for less than $5. people scared of phytoestrogens in soy but eat a female animal with bioavailable female hormones as well as drink the drink of a lactating cow. makes sense. /sarcasm
Eating something that doesn't exist in nature is so much better for the human body than meat. Makes sense / sarcasm
@@mindyourbuisness8104 appeal to nature fallacy
While soy is complete, it has less EAAs in it and is slower/harder to digest. So while it is a very good protein, it is not on the same level. The mistake people make, is thinking 30% worse protein equals 30% less gains. Which is not even remotely true, but it s in their head, and people like norton prefer not to clarify it (most of the time), even he knows better.
I personally prefer soy all day.
@@YaYippieYeah tofu and soy protein has virtually no fiber so it's just as easy to digest
What you talking bout tofu tits
Gotta love those zealots and also that algorithm
"We don't know for sure" yeah right..
Not finished it but The Doc said quote "to survive" not to build slabs of muscle and be a competitive bodybuilder. Edit - there is plenty research into the HUGE benefits of the gut biome and its affect on Health, mental health, the brain etc, one of the leading experts in the field studdied tribes in Africa whom had twice the amount of Good gut bacteria, two of the key reason was 1) higher intake of different plant based foods and 2) less or no use of Antibiotics.
One of the ways to increase healthy gut bacteria is increasing your plant based foods (also includes things like Tea/coffee,) to 30 different types per week. The gut biome has shown to have a direct affect on things like cancer as they discovered one of the only difference in Identical twins from same egg, were their gut biome which is why some Identical twins developed specific disease and others did not. You can directly improve health and reduce specific disease by eating more plant based foods if you are correctly improving gut biome. Its intriguing research. I came across as I have twins. P.S I love meat. :-)
What about pea and rice protein combo? How does it compare to whey?
According to Hertzler et al. (2020), pretty well: “Protein blends of pea and rice ranging 40-90% pea protein can achieve a PDCAAS of 1.00.”
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7760812/
Pea is high in leucine (9% of the protein content by weight, close to the 10% whey offers) and just a bit of rice protein patches pea’s weak spot (methionine).
Also, as Doc has said before, if you’re getting enough protein (say 1.6g+ per kilo of bodyweight), factors like quality and timing matter much less.
Protein powder virtually has no fiber which makes the bioavailability almost exactly the same as animal protein. I would say just choose between pea, rice and soy and you're good to go
sam vandervelden yeah but the amino acid profile of pea and rice I heard has a good balance.
@@ahappyimago yeah and so does soy. I wouldn't worry to much about the amino acid profile, if you consume 2.2g of protein per kg of bodyweight per day you will have more than enough
sam vandervelden I suppose this is better than no answer but it does not answer my question
One study claiming processed meats related to cancer, one. This was a poorly done study. Now it is part of our culture. He then cites this as fact and the study proved it.
First time getting into this thing and I feel like every video on UA-cam contradicts the other. This video came up as a search result for "whey vs plant." This video is 1 year old and a newer video 6 months ago says the opposite. Another video down the search results contradicts the previous video. The video after that contradicts that other previous one. It's a goddamn minefield here with "science" being thrown around, what is even going on? I feel like no one in this space truly knows what they're talking about, and that's just page 1 of the search results. I am so lost lol
its like he doesnt know about complex protiens
I’m going to keep commenting on your videos to help your algorithm. When you get to a million subscribers my job will be complete. You deserve every success. Great content as always.
Leucin triggers mTOR, mTOR activation is correlated with cancer afaik. So maximizing muscular potential and keeping your cancer risk at the lowest is probably not possible.
I've often read 70/30 rice/pea protein is superior to soy and not that much worse then whey. It's probably
The Epidemiology of Red Meat and Cancer
Of those 800+ epidemiological studies, a mere 29 were put forth by the WHO as “informative” about the connection between unprocessed red meat and colorectal cancer.
Of those 29 studies, 14 suggested that red meat was associated with a higher risk for colorectal cancer in humans; 15 of them did not.
The Epidemiology of Processed Meat and Cancer
As for processed meat, the WHO chose 27 of the 800+ studies to make its case for the cancer connection.
Of those 27 studies, 18 suggested that processed meat was associated with a higher risk for colorectal cancer in humans; 9 did not.
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Of plant based complete protein you just need more to get the same effects. There's studies on it
Layne, when you say veggie protein necessitates 20-40% more than egg or whey protein, are you comparing isolate to isolate? Because I can't see fiber holding plant protein absorption back if it's isolate.
Ive asked that before. Here's to hoping you answer this time.
Thats a great question. Most of the tests I see about bioavailability are done on isolates. What really drives bioavailability?
@@sagebauer1077 yeah, I don't think there's fiber in isolate, else it wouldn't be isolate but some crude concentrate.
Then again, you'd assume that's how veggie vs whey/egg protein studies are done, as that would be the easiest thing to do, give participants protein powders, hopefully in person before or after supervised in lab training sessions.
I do recall years back there being speculation that both sources of protein need to be leucine matched to elicit the same anabolic response, Norton?, but when it was matched, the veggie counterpart was still at a disadvantage.
I can only assume that was in free living conditions comparing meat eating omnivores to vegetarians with veggie concentrate (with fiber) to compensate for thee lack of sufficient complete protein to compare, so I don't know how useful that would be other than to suggest any animal protein is better than veggie sourced concentrate protein powder, but Layne could clarify all this in a dedicated 20 min video.
@@sagebauer1077 oh, I do think I recall Layne saying it's usually concentrate that's used in veggie protein studies because isolate is so awful tasting.
So yeah, I bet there probably wouldn't be a difference if isolate to isolate case scenario was used to compare animal vs veggie sources of protein.
He won't answer, his biases are very clear at this point
@@SSchithFoo perhaps
Im not shaw why people go to war over your style of eating, I don’t give a crap all I care about is what to eat to build more muscle and dodge cancer, I don’t care what it is just how good it is for my body
Saturated fat does not matter it's good for us.humans have been eating lots of animal fat for thousands of years and they weren't getting heart disease
I can safely say the idea you can't gain muscle on a plant-based diet is bogus. The DIAAS scores of various foods, the basis of so-called "protein quality", are vastly overrated, especially in terms of real-world diets. DIAAS scores are based on animal feeding studies using isolated, raw foods, not cooked or processed foods that most people eat on a well-planned plant-based diet.
Idk why everyone insists on cutting entire food groups out of their diet.
Barring allergies and other exceptions, of course... but generally it's better to get a good balance of food in your diet, relying on meat and eggs for protein and fats, and veggies/grains for carbs and fiber. That way you get everything essential, plus a good mix of micros and flavor.
Edit: some fruits are nice too, mainly for the micros. The sugar is not ideal in general but with all the fiber, your insulin sensitivity won't get completely shot like it would with processed sugar snacks.
I agree! I’m just waiting for the “BUT CARBS AREN’T ESSENTIAL” comment!
I agree! I’m just waiting for the “BUT CARBS AREN’T ESSENTIAL” comment!
Yep. I have no clue why people like to torture themselves by eating an overly restrictive diet for no good reason.
One small correction to your comment though: You forgot about beans for carbs, fiber, protein and of course .... farts. :)
Most people who eat plant based do it for ethical reasons so that is why they are ”forced” to cut off certain food groups.
This is what I've been saying about eating other people! The MOST digestible protein source (it already comes pre-formed in the same structure), the MOST environmentally friendly (one human has the carbon footprint worth a million trees' carbon fixation), and the MOST tasty (many say it is difficult to distinguish from pork). So needlessly restrictive.