Protein Quality | Animal v. Plant, PDCAAS, DIAAS
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- Опубліковано 22 тра 2024
- How is protein quality measured? How do animal and plant protein compare in short-term assays as well as for muscle building? Why is leucine so critical for the anabolic response (muscle maintenance and growth)?
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www.science.mcmaster.ca/kines...
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Animations: Even Topland @toplandmedia
References:
www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/1...
PDCAAS/DIAAS: academic.oup.com/jn/article/1...
royalsocietypublishing.org/do...
www.fao.org/ag/humannutrition...
Artificial digestion system: www.sciencedirect.com/science...
Isotopes: academic.oup.com/jn/article/1...
DIAAS mixed foods: onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/f...
Plant protein:link.springer.com/article/10....
bjsm.bmj.com/content/52/6/376...
Leucine: academic.oup.com/jn/article/1...
www.mdpi.com/1660-4601/17/11/...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...
nutritionandmetabolism.biomed...
www.researchgate.net/profile/...
Knee brace: journals.physiology.org/doi/f...
Disclaimer: The contents of this video are for informational purposes only and are not intended to be medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment, nor to replace medical care. The information presented herein is accurate and conforms to the available scientific evidence to the best of the author's knowledge as of the time of posting. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health provider with any questions regarding any medical condition. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay seeking it because of information contained in Nutrition Made Simple!.
#NutritionMadeSimple #GilCarvalho
0:00 Intro
0:15 Answering FAQs from Part I
5:30 PDCAAS
7:32 DIAAS
13:52 Plant protein
21:42 Leucine
25:32 Omnivores vs Vegans for building muscle
26:59 Leucine dose & Leucine threshold
28:50 Take-away
@16:44 and that right there is why things like sarcopenia and muscular atrophy are so prevalent. It is not what we feed Seniors. It does not matter how much raw materials you throw at the body. if it does not feel the need to create more tissue, it simply wont. My mom is 58, unknown to me, she was diagnosed with osteopenia a few years back, and she was taking the usual BS of calcium, D2 etc. I put her in a resistance training program, just using dumbells. Her bone mass stated going up in 1-2 months. She almost shed tears of joy, I kid you not. I wish more people and so called "Health professionals" would realize this, Seniors deserve a better life, and resistance training should be a right for every one of them.
The problem is that people are often over-educated with pseudo-science. When faced with real, unbiased science, it is a difficult swallow. Thanks for doing what you do! I rely on your information and actual studies and research for answers. Again, thanks.
I am glad you pointed out how the research to protein quality is done by feeding animals RAW legumes, and feeding raw foods in isolation.
This subject is very frustrating when talking to health coaches and gymbros that don’t understand how things work, protein quality can’t be measured by aminoacid content because it’s not practical and based on reality
@@niken538 How should it be measured? I'm serious. I would like to know. This has been the argument for years like with beans not being a complete protein because beans don't have all of the amino acids. I'm an old timer and this has been out there forever. Now they say beans are a complete protein. Hell, I don't know what to believe anymore.
@@patrickvanmeter2922 you should look at it in a practical way, not comparing two foods and then giving the one with more amino acid content per gram of protein a better score. Why?
Because even if some animal proteins have 50% more amino acid content than plant proteins, this doesn’t matter in the real world. Let’s say you consume 250 grams of chicken breast, thats 75 grams of protein and enough amino acids for a 75 kg average human being. Now let’s translate that to beans, you eat 420 grams of lentils, that is 75 grams of protein, and more than enough amino acids for a 75kg person.
If you compare both situations, the person that consumed the chicken would have consumed more amino acids at the end of the day, lets say ~200% of the Daily Recommended Intake of each essential amino acid, the lentil person, would have consumed ~130% of the amino acids DRI’s.
And this is why it doesn’t matter in real life but they make it seems like it does from 1v1 comparisons, because when you surpass the threshold of amino acid DRI’s, there’s no more benefit than hitting just 100%, which means that both proteins provide the same effect. Side note; all plants contain ALL AMINO ACIDS, all of them in different values.
@@niken538 Assuming the DRI's are correct. Most of RDR's are an estimate or at best an average of what we should consume. I consider myself a cheating Vegan. I eat some beans every day, even if I have a steak or a chicken breast because I like them. Lucky for me beans have a lot of fiber. The RDA for fiber is way too low IMO. I never have less than 50 grams of fiber and usually a lot more. You could count the times I have been constipated in 81 years, on one hand.
Thank you for the response. I agree with much of what you said.
@@niken538Who could possibly eat 420 g of lentils in one go, especially day in and day out?!
As an older vegan, I’m 100% not worried about getting enough protein, I’m worried about digesting what I eat since that’s what matters. Digestion and absorption ability typically declines with age unless your gut is healthy. The SAD doesn’t promote gut health, so I’d be concerned if I ate a SAD, but I don’t.
Plus, I cook my beans 😉
Pre and probiotics ❤
Yeah ..cooked stuff are much more superior to their raw counterparts
Great video, thanks, Gil! Also the extra info showed in the video is useful. My parents changed three years ago to whole food plant based at age 73 and 80, so I read a lot about the topic of elderly & protein. My mothers high blood pressure was cured quickly, and my fathers who had beginning signs of cognitive impairment has improved his cognitive health so much. My parents are both active and they have all their teeth and they have not lost any muscle, and my mother reached her ideal weight (body) within a few months eating whole food plant based after struggling her whole life with a bit of overweight. They supplement with B12 and omega 3 DHA and vit D. They eat lots of soy, legumes, whole grains and nuts, seeds, nutbutters, seedbutters, and lots of dark green leafy vegetables and a wide variety of other vegetables and fruits, and low salt, low sugar, and low oil (sugar and oil only from whole foods). I watch the content of your channel, Rhonda Patrick, David Sinclair and Michael Greger.
Yeast is B12. Teaspoon 500% !!!!! And it’s natural, 🦠 (hint hint 🥖🍞B12 ). Or marmite teaspoonful 480% !!!!! Duckweed B12 500% teaspoon !!!. Nori sheets B12 46% 1 piece......
Natural lmao
@@VeganV5912 no.. that's not really true ...you still should supplement!
Those are the best foods..
@@scienceislove2014 , “Gorilla
Genus of large African apes
For other uses, see Gorilla (disambiguation).
“Blackback” and “Silverback” redirect here. For other uses, see Blackback (disambiguation) and Silverback (disambiguation).
Gorillas are herbivorous, predominantly ground-dwelling great apes that inhabit the tropical forests of equatorial Africa. The genus Gorilla is divided into two species: the eastern gorilla and the western gorilla, and either four or five subspecies. The DNA of gorillas is highly similar to that of humans, from 95 to 99% depending on what is included, and they are the next closest living relatives to humans after chimpanzees and bonobos.
W. ikipedia”
After reading some of the first protein video comments I was on the point of responding to some of them in support of Gil’s general style and approach (I.e. his wish to give balanced well evidenced input) but he has nailed all of my potential comments at the start of this second video. I have been watching lots of health videos on UA-cam for the best part of three years following a gut health scare aged 56. Gil’s content is a breath of fresh air and I find myself trying to work out how I have missed his content until very recently.
I feel the same. I have a Ph.D. in an unrelated field, and have fallen under the persuasiveness of various health personalities over the years, only to realize later that the science was cherry-picked. I'm thrilled to find information on nutrition that I can count on. I strongly respect research, but even with my background I find it hard to pull together reliable information in this area! I've found it at last!
Fantastic that you express the evolution of your approach to interviews and editing videos. Excellent Job Gil; I appreciate your commitment to providing quality information. As you learn, I learn so I can find the best path to ensure a healthy life. Thank you.
Thank you for addressing the protein calculation based on obesity! That video was the best push back on my understanding of protein on quite some time - which I really appreciate.
I have a lot of respect for the quality of what is said on this channel and the intellectual honesty that fomes with it. Its very informative, thought provoking and it sounds very reliable and balanced.
Thanks Gil, really enjoying this series. Great to understand more about the role of protein in diet and see the way scientific understanding has evolved.
One tasty and easy way to add protein to my diet is roasted crispy chickpeas that can be found at any Indian market. Called roasted Chana, my favorite version has only 3 ingredients- chickpeas, turmeric and salt. That one is called Haldi Chana. Just as addictive as peanuts or popcorn! Easy to keep in the car for snacking on the go, like trail mix. Very economical too.
Thank you so much for all the hard work from you and your team. I really enjoy the high quality content u produce
Thank you so much for doing the extra work and providing links and sources based on the conversation!
This is by far the most objective search for the truth! Hands down!
It was nice to see somebody say, look if you eat enough protein the amino acid profile is periphery, people have an intense obsession with it online when really it can be used for min/maxing scenarios.
It’s frustrating, especially when talking about plant proteins, you hear a lot about aminoacids in a isolated situation (how much aminoacids per gram of protein) but people never talk about reality. I.e. full day of eating in a certain way
@niken538 comes with the territory of people that think their micro optimizations (vs fundamentals) are going to make the difference between success and failure against their goals (realistic or otherwise).
The body building community of today is fundamentally unconcerned with actual health, it's mostly aesthetics and toxic bravado, especially in an online and anonymous context. Also selling people bullshit supplements as a grift.
Great Videos again ,...was really waiting for such Videos where Protein is shown as objectively as possible,... Thanks 🙏 a lot guys for those super Videos 😊
The timely animations are helpful 👍
This was a very informative video. Saying as someone who thouht to know a lot about nutrition. Also, all videos on this channel are very common-sense and helpful.
I really appreciate your attention to detail.
I do love your channel, Gil. I would be remiss of I didn't point out the very reductionistic approach we are taking towards nutrition. By focusing on a specific nutrient, we ignore the myriad other elements of a food or of a dietary pattern. I think this could lead people to omit done very healthful foods because they feel compelled to "get enough protein", in this case.
In Gil's defense, he talks about all aspects of nutrition. Sometimes the show topic may cover a dietary pattern Other times it may cover a specific food or a specific nutrient. It depends upon the show. I think that most people want to listen to all types of shows. When there are shows about specific nutrients, it causes people in the comment section to raise questions like the one you're asking, which is good for discussion and for sharing information. Therefore, I see an abundance of value in the show type that covers a specific nutrient.
Thank you Doctor Gil💐
Sir, can you please make a video on healthy or nearly healthy cooking oils to use? Please, please,please. I’m sure everyone will benefit from it.
coming :)
Thank you. Very enlightening interview.
Enjoyable & can't wait for part 3
Really enjoyed this two part series. As a 64 year-old I'm hearing a lot about increasing my protein consumption. Hopefully you have time to read this comment, but could you address diet & the uric acid connection. Personal interest in if/how uric acid interplays with arthritis (a bit obvious), blood pressure and diabetes. Thanks for your consideration... keep at it.
That shouldn't be a problem with plant based protein
Your point about oatmeal/ rolled oats spikes my blood sugar really fast and very high. It’s not really a low glycemic food
I find this discussion really amazing thanks Gil
I think as a whole though with everything that was presented and with how we know animals are treated, people should aim to be as plant based as possible whenever they can be.
Great video.
I was one who was unfairly mad at Gil for earlier endorsing the RDA minimum for protein intake, but upon further understanding, I determined that I was eating too much protein.
EDIT 7/17/22
What I meant by unfairly mad at Gil, I thought rightly or wrongly that he believed that one mustn't go over the RDA of protein.
If he stated such, he believes in science as how one's understanding may and should be altered as further research indicates.
If you understand protein research, you'd know its extremely difficult to eat "too much" protein. If you're eating more than 300g of protein, perhaps you're eating too much. How much is too much in your view and based on which studies?
@@StevenMorello ,
Thanks for your concern,
In January 2021 I was technically morbid obese, or just short of, at 284 pounds, and by January 2022 187, presently 170.
I took account of my health seriously, went on a caloric deficit and learn one must maintain a little more than normal protein, to retain muscle an sustain fat loss, operating on the premise of .8 to 1 gram protein per pound of body weight, not healthy body weight!
I would consume up to 270 grams of protein a day of fish, turkey and whey powder.
Maybe it worked, glad to hear you suggest I may not have damaged my body.
I'm presently ingesting about 135 to 170 grams of protein a day, believing my healthy weight is around 170 pounds.
The protein I'm eating is all plant based.
I eat lots of flaxseed, algae dha supplement vitamin d and B12 an others.
To answer your question about studies, I'm at fault for simply following advice from other sources who quote studies.
Health is becoming a hobby with me so I'll eventually start educating myself on peer reviewed proven theory.
@@StevenMorello Eating more than what you need is excess to me and not without harmful consequences, your kidney have to work more to get rid of the excess.
As long as you get two or three servings of legumes, tofu, soy milk or mycoprotein (mushrooms, quorn) every day, you're getting plenty of protein.
@@arvidlystnur4827 Yeast is B12. Teaspoon 500% !!!!! And it’s natural, 🦠 (hint hint 🥖🍞B12 ). Or marmite teaspoonful 480% !!!!! Duckweed B12 500% teaspoon !!!. Nori sheets B12 46% 1 piece...... .
Sincerely, thanks for taking the time to have Dr. Phillips on your channel. He and Dr. / Prof. Don layman are some of the best gurus available for protein. No need to copy or link all the studies. The majority of studies are lacking in some area. Plus, the mass public not trained in reading studies.
Such a GREAT video!!!! Thank you so much!!!!
Gil, you along with Zoe are two of my go-to podcasts on nutrition. I do wish you could've had Christopher Gardner (who is on Zoe a lot) at the same time, especially regarding the amount of protein from an earlier podcast.
A couple of things I learned over time, though it isn't all necessarily applicable to everyone (Individuals are different/have different objectives/health conditions): Eat your vegetables; strive to eat 30 different vegetables & fruits per week (Tim Specter or is it Spector? on Zoe); don't neglect your leg strength & balance (critical especially when older); don't forget flexibility; if you are trying for a combination of saving the environment, avoiding animal cruelty and health, I think the vegans have the obvious crown; use meat as a garnish if you eat it (chef Deborah Madison); if all else fails, just mimic the Blue Zone diets & lifestyles; eat a lot of fiber; avoid processed foods/excessive sugar & salt and be careful on oils (the jury may still be out on some of these, especially a good quality olive oil); after 65, consider increasing protein intake moderately (Valter Longo) if needed; grow your own vegetables/herbs/fruits if possible and buy organic if feasible (see Environmental Working Group's "Dirty Dozen" list); stay hydrated; meditate or find some form of excessive relaxation; get adequate sleep & find a way to tackle stress (a good hobby anyone?); do an elimination diet to find what you are allergic to or see an allergist.
Personally, I do a ovo-pescatarian diet but only a little fish a few times a week (usually sardines or salmon) plus I have eggs maybe once a week if I go out to breakfast. I do crave butter but will rarely have it (if anyone knows of a good butter substitute, please let me know.. currently do Benecol). Green tea, cabbage and most recently, ground flax seeds are foods that I believe have really helped me. Planning on trying hemp and chia seeds next. I also follow a lot of what Fuhrman and Gregor say, plus I like the little vignettes from Plant Based Science London and The Physicians Committee. The 'Jungle Effect' and the Blue Zones books are informative. I'm not a big fan of supplements but I do take a D3, B12 and Zinc; thinking of adding Omega-3 algae supplement.
Not saying all this stuff applies to everyone, just some ideas.
Nice overview. I’ve come to similar conclusions in the 15+ years I’ve spent sifting through the recommendations floating around the internet. I would add some sort of spiritual practice (whatever that means to you) and relationships/socializing.
If I'm not mistaken, the recommendation is to eat "30 plants" per week. There are antioxidants and other beneficial compounds in plants that aren't generally considered vegetables or fruits: coffee, tea, chocolate, spices, etc. Not to mention plant foods with substantial macronutrient content such as beans, nuts, and seeds, which aren't generally considered vegetables or fruits. My way of eating is based on animal foods, but I find it fun and surprisingly easy to rack up my variety of different plant foods every week.
superb video
Gil, Christopher Gardner who you had on an earlier video did a recent podcast with Jonathon Wolf from ZOE nutrition where he covers how the amount of protein required was originally established and also how rice and beans together gives us adequate amounts of lysine and methiodine which are respectively low and high in grains and beans.
thanks, I'll check it out
love you, keep doing what you do!
Huberman posted today too. Good way to start the day
Thanks for asking about the protein needs of people who work out and want to keep muscle mass. I'm a vegan and I get frustrated by some of the information put out by vegan doctors. While their information is sound, it's usually geared towards the untrained or elderly population when it comes to protein. I've been a gym rat since I was 21 years old and went vegan when I was 50. It's taken me almost 3 years of trial and error to figure out how to cut body fat and maintain muscle on a plant-based diet.
Would love to hear what you've learned, if you'd be willing to share.
yea this is important info! please share
Also interested...
Guys, eat some meat for your own good
@@pipelisvejdzirnavs5759 l m f a o
Feedback: In my view, it would be better to put "Dr. Stuart Phillips" into the title of your video.. Very good video, thanks for your work!
Total versus lean body weight: when I went to med school, now almost 45 years ago, it was stressed that the RDA was .8 g /kg lean body weight but that it was ok to use total body weight because it was easier and the difference wasn't really all that important. After all, fat needs to be supported so, while not much, some additional protein is needed anyway.
I like Prof. Phillips' suggestion of using ideal body weight. The only problem with that could be that people will start to argue about which formula to use. I tend to switch between the old Broca index and the BMI=21 idea.
Love This channel, thak You! I'm vegan and I really apreciate This honest información🙏
Loving the content!
You are amazing …. Thank you for information
This needs more views!
This is excellent information. My wife has kidney damage and pre-diabetes. She has very low appetite, and is healing from many surgeries. I'd like to find a protein regimen that is high in the essential amino acids, especially ones needed for healing, but also would like to find tips to condense it down to a smaller portion size. I thought of things like a split pea soup that has protein in all the ingredients. Any good suggestions?
Thanks for this. One thing that wasn't clear for me was the effect of protein when someone is inactive. Say you are an adult and have a good balanced diet and about 1g/kg protein and you're in an accident and can't move for a month. Would you have less muscle loss if you go to 1.5g/kg protein during that time or would it make no difference? i.e. What is the rate limiter here? The dietary protein or the weight bearing exercise? Does "extra" dietary protein (above RDA) have any effect on muscle mass in absence of exercise or does it just enhance an exercise regime?
Stuart Phillips has done a lot of work for the meat and dairy industries, also for the protein powder industry. Please get Christopher Gardner on to discuss protein and plant based diets.
yes indeed 🙏
Rather than ad hom-ing, maybe you'd care to point out actual factual flaws in the research done by, e.g., Dr. Phillips and Dr. Layman.
I Love it how you adressed some questions and Suggestions of the Last Video. Thank you for that and showing the Studies is great.
I have some concerns about the Claims for the elderly. From the Data I have Seen from Dr. Greger Protein is Not a factor in Muscle Mass. Training and Vegetable intake is.
Also I still dont know how I should think about Lucein.. yea yea stimulates MPS but from the Data I remember that I have Seen from Greger, Ornish, Campbell and Valter Longo These Sulfur containing AAs Like Methionine and Lutein might be one If not the Major reason why Higher Protein Diets and High Meat Diets Promote and Initiate Cancer Growth and shortens Lifespan.
But great Video Overall. Thank you ✌️
To build a muscle, you need primarily: protein, water, calories, and resistance training.
There is no data to support that high protein diets should support cancer growth, or shorten lifespan.
@@EmilEngholmSrensen
In General yes you mainly need Exercise.. secondarely.. enough Calories.. then to maybe maximize the Growth you can use more Protein, Creatine, Vegetables and water Sure.
I talked about the elderly tho and I am interested in RCTs and not Mechanistic Data
"Increasing Protein Intake after 65" from Nutrition facts was the Video I was talking about in the Case of elderly and Proteinintake If you are interested. And If you have any RCTs that Show otherwise I would be glad to read them.
For the other Part I need to search it Up again because it is some years ago but I will send them to u when I have enough free time. also If you are trying to Show the opposite you can Show me also some Epidemiological Studies, Cohorts ect where they Check for Mortality and Cancer. If they Tested for Animal to Plant Protein Ratio
@@Slizz There’s a pretty solid correlation between protein intake and muscle growth up to ~ 1 gram of protein per pound of lean mass. You literally can’t build new muscle tissue with protein. Vegetables are not at all an requirement for building muscles (but that obviously doesn’t mean they aren’t healthy!).
@@august4633
I didnt say there isnt more muscle Growth with 1.6g/kg.
I was talking about sustaining muscle in old age. Like what Greger showed in the Video I linked.
Yea of course.. where did I say you only need Protein to build muscle? I wrote exercise is the Primary factor that is needed..
Vegetables doesnt Help with growing muscle but it might Help to prevent muscle breakdown.. Like in the Video I listed..
If you wanna Change my opinion on any of this Points I am Open to it If you Show me Well formulated RCTs
@@EmilEngholmSrensen no data? you must be joking. how about luigi fontana, world leading expert on protein, or valter longo, franco berrino, etc..please check them out
Thanks, I am really happy to have found you, being an amateur nutritionist. I have various questions. 1) I think the fact that the tests done on pigs were with one type of food and not a variety of food is a major problem because nobody eats like that. We also know that the body uses various nutrients in combination to aid function. 2) I would like more on digestibility and how the body digests the two proteins. As I understand it, because the animal proteins are all bound up, the body has to then break them up into individual components, and the various internal chemical processes cause byproducts which are toxic and the body then has to eliminate them. This cleansing energy could be used better for the elimination of the buildup of other toxins. By contrast, plant proteins are not bound up together and are thus easier to access. Is this true? If true, what does this say about accessibility and efficiency if these are factors of the ease of digestibility and amount of energy used to do so? 3) Portion size as said is only important for those who are not eating enough. It is also true that if one is eating whole-plant food one has to eat more and get used to eating more. This can be a problem for some, but not for most. Often, in protein per calorie, plant food, even greens, can match meat. 4) We also need to emphasize that all vegetables, even celery, contain all the amino acids we need, we just have to eat more, but with a balanced diet, it is almost impossible not to get enough protein if eating enough calories (even if one was getting all one's calories from celery and eating a bushel of it). Of course, no one is so stupid, and one is eating more protein and calorie-dense food like nuts, beans, and grains. 4) We also need to talk about what is packaged with protein. Meat protein is generally packed with saturated fat and lots of calories, something most people could do with less. Plant protein comes packaged with tons of micro-nutrients, something most people need a lot more of. Besides protein, meat has very few other nutrients; kale and spinach on the other hand have hundreds. 5) Finally, I would like more information on how protein requirements are calculated.
Isn’t higher amino acid content” better”? More complete? Thank you for all your videos!
Good video, nicely balanced. It would be good to have a follow up on all the negative things you add to your diet when you don’t eat plant based, so the high quality meat protein comes prepackaged with negative stuff like cholesterol and IGF1 etc so that’s partly why you cannot just look at one macro nutrient in isolation!
what I understand from this is I need to learn how to cook properly.
What is the difference in MGL formation and absorption between cooking meet and beans or lentils? Since beans, lentils and chickpeas have a lot of carbohydrates compared to meat, and considering that they take more time to cook, would it stand to reason that they would form more MGL? Should they be cooked at low temperature to reduce the MGL formation?
My grandma (she's old!) is predominantly plant based (cuz I'm an indian and she's a lacto vegetarian)... And she works out a lot (she brisk walks every single day ...hits gym 3-4 times a week for strength training!) ...
Also... Lentil isn't hard to chew!!😂😂
She always eats khichdi (that has crushed wheat/rice+millet+lentils+ mung bean+ quinoa+vegetables)...cuz that's easier for her to chew..
And as far as i remember,meat isn't easy to chew... Biting into chicken was a mouth workout of its kind..
Can you do a video about sprouted legumes/seeds in the vein of "how to" and the practical value of that over cooking them traditionally, i.e. not sprouting them. If not can you point to resources that would answer those questions? What are the pros and cons of sprouting? I am interested as long as it isn't too much of a PITA and that the gains of doing it are worthwhile or significant.
I find it hard to watch these ones. As a lacto vegetarian of 35 years, and at times eliminating milk and being totally plant based, my health just continued to decline. Introducing meat, fish and eggs has actually done wonders for me. And I actually am a person who cooks at home, uses a wide variety of whole grains, legumes, fruits, vegetables etc. Supplemented with plant based omega 3 like micro algae oil.
Trying fish based omega 3 less than a year ago for the first time resulted in euphoria. I have been slowly introducing more and more animal products to my diet, keeping in all the fruits and vegetables, whole grains from before. I just binged on all the biased content about benefits of eating meat because if I had watched videos like this I would never have believed I could do anything to improve my health, I would have stuck to plant based. My siblings have also moved in a similar direction. One of the things we noticed was hormone balance from introducing eggs, fish and meats. Mental health was a massive one for me too, simply not being depressed anymore has given me so much quality of life. I still think data is missing on long term vegan and selective omnivore diets like vegetarian. My father is also lactose intolerant so much less dairy but still we were developing all the problems attributed to red meat intake. Maybe it’s the genes in the family. At an individual level though it matters if advice is correct. Loving your videos otherwise. I’m still looking for answers though because my diet was on religious grounds it’s a source of existential crisis to deviate.
Great to hear your doing well, I think the lost data back diet is Mediterranean and near is pesquetarian so what you said I think it goes in the same direction
This is strange. I've gone on vegan/vegetarian diet for a couple of years now, and I haven't noticed anything like that. I still exercise, have a bunch of energy, lift heavy weights... I don't see any need for animal sourced foods. Fish get their omega 3's from algae in the same form, there's no conversion process like when cow eats grass and it turns into meat. So my guess is you did something wrong with your dietary and lifestyle choices.
As a almost carnivore by choice and to help out my health and due to ecological concerns (I know most stop reading now), I thought this would be another Vegan mess of a antiscience video. But I actually watched it to the end and was mostly surprised. I think stunting in industrialized societies is downplayed and the higher calories needed for protein from certain sources as well. But maybe DIAAS is not as good as I hoped. After this video I'll have a look at more videos, looks like there might be new perspectives here to learn from. In the end around 50% of what we think we know is wrong anyway, maybe I get closer to which of those 50% are wrong ;-)
Overall I there is nothing in here showing me that my keto carnivore lifestyle is bad for me or the environment. Lets see what happens in the next videos 🙂
So thanks Gil for the insights, I'll keep watching for now.
You may change your mind if you investigate the positive aspects of fiber.
@@k.h.6991 Which ones? Bloating? Why do we need those really?
The reason protein is not an issue in older age either is that people are not dying of a shortage, if they have access to enough fresh food. People do die of things like cardio vascular disease, cancers, diabetes or the other effects of it etc. Things like meat are full of saturated fat, causal of inflammation etc.
This was definitely a much better video than part 1. It was more precise in what was being presented. So, it seemed more intentional and less of the viewer eavesdropping on a conversation between two guys. The first part, at least as it seemed to me, was premised on the need to increase protein intake from the American RDA by a goodly amount (1.2 g/kg - 1.6 g/kg). However, as I reflect on the last video, I'm not sure it was ever answered why the RDA should be increased to this amount (incidentally I don't think it needs to be increased)? It seemed that other video got off topic at this point, and people were then caught up in different arguments - myself included. Again, I do not believe that Dr. Philips ever really convinced anyone why more protein was needed than the RDA (other than those who already thought so going into the video), but I think he was saying that more protein is needed to build/preserve muscle mass.
This next video, part 2, has a really clear premise - more protein for muscle mass preservation. The discussion about protein quality was good, if not introductory, on the discussion between animal and plant protein. Ultimately, the answer to the question of whether animal or plant protein is superior to one or the other really has to do with how you define the parameters of the discussion - or the goals for protein. If you are looking for digestibility, then animal protein is superior. If you are looking for sheer volume of amino acids - then, again, animal protein. However, looking at health and longevity, plant protein is of a superior quality (not saying you have to eliminate animal protein, but reducing it to below consumption of plant protein is markedly healthier).
Now, when talking about elderly people, or people involved in extreme physical labor/pursuits, then protein needs are slightly greater. But, for the vast majority of people, 10% of calories coming from protein is enough. If anyone doubts this, then look at the composition of human breast milk. Of course someone with malabsorption or some wasting syndrome will require more protein - just like much older people. However, I think it i key to underscore that eating more protein will not help anyone (including the young, the old, men or women, the sick or the healthy) grow muscle, but it may help some people who are elderly or ill to preserve muscle mass. And, in all cases, the best proteins are plant based ones. The may clinic even says, "The healthiest protein options are plant sources, such as soy, nuts, seeds, beans and lentils; lean meats, such as skinless, white-meat chicken or turkey; a variety of fish or seafood; egg whites; or low-fat dairy."
Great make-up video - even if I still think most of this is bro science. I'm not going to even get into the ethics, and value, of the animal research that is referenced - which I hope is not happening at Dr. Stuart's lab that he references.
🙏 ❤exactly my thoughts
Dr. Greger and Dr. McDougal have both been sharing the same made up bit of misinformation about the "ideal human food" which they claim is breastmilk. No, it's not ideal - certainly not for adults! It's ideal for infants.
The caloric requirements of infants is around 120 cals/kg, while adults need only around 30 cals/kg - around 4x less!
A 9kg infant needs 120 cals/kg * 9 kg = 1080 calories. Taking 6% protein from breastmilk this equates to around 16g protein, so that's 16.2g/9kg = 1.8 g/kg.
A 70 kg sedentary adult needs 28.5 cals/kg * 70 kg = 2000 calories. Taking approx 11.2% protein at 2000 calories, we require 56g of protein which is 56g/70kg = 0.8 g/kg. That's how the RDI has been set up.
So a baby actually is consuming about 2.25x as much protein as an adult per kg bodyweight to meet it's needs, on a measly 6%, because the caloric intake for a baby is so high.
Because adults require around 1/4 of the energy needs of a baby to maintain 0.8 g/kg, adults require approx 11.2% protein.
6% protein of 1080 calories = 65 cals of protein for a baby = (16.2g) for 9kg
11.2% protein of 2000 calories = 224 cals of protein for an adult = (56g) for 70kg
Your "may" clinic quote doesn't say what you claim.
this was good, more like this.
How does comparing two types of protein powder, processed foods, compare omnivore and vegan diets for protein?
I challenge that it's more efficient and easier to get leucine from animal sources. When the whole chain of production is considered, it requires significantly less resources and processing to grow and process corn and pumpkin seeds than it does animals in agriculture. I don't think it's fair to compare the end product only. Corn and pumpkin seeds could even be further processed into protein powders to achieve the same ease of ingestion, and it would still be more cost-effective than meat.
efficient in the video's case is referring to how efficient they are per calorie as we consume and digest them. no contest there that a whole food animal protein source is more efficient. on the other hand, to your point on the production side (before the food gets to our table), it is no contest that producing x grams of protein via plant sources is way more efficient than producing the same x grams through animals. they are two different aspects.
that said, if you move away from whole foods and add some processing (also to your point above), an animal and plant based protein can match up quite well in terms of calorie efficiency. pea protein vs whey protein powder would be a good example of this. i use pea protein powder as my preferred source of protein supplementation - add some fruit to get some additional nutrients and enhance the flavor and i'm golden. it also helps that pea protein is very high in leucine.
@@emberos Thanks for your reasonable and logical comment, rarely seen as of late in these nutrition videos.
@@emberos + less processed is healthier?
Does any macro tracking app have this?
WOW!!! Did I hear him correctly??? "Making essential amino acids"? Thats amazing!!!
yeah the reference we linked shows it :)
@@NutritionMadeSimple So does that mean they should be redefined to "conditionally essential"?
finally, some good outro music!
Great interview! Seems to me like confusion between what's possible versus what's practcal. Way easier and practical w meat and fish and chicken. Who eats lentils so regularly? How much corn and pumpkin seeds to get 3 grams of leucine?
DIAAS should be on Nutrition Labels, like Fats have breakdown and Carbohydrates have Fiber and Total Sugars.
My protein powder of choice is peanut butter powder.
Tasty and economical compared to other protein powders.
Tbh, I don't eat animal protein anymore, because I love animals.
I really hope you review the videos and podcast of carnivore MD on UA-cam I believe he has the most optimal diet for humans and I agree with his opinions most of the time
Based on what evidence?
Nutrition Made Simple! has already done two videos dealing with "carnivore MD" Dec. 14, 2020
Go to UA-cam and search for "Scientist reacts to Carnivore Doctor on Joe Rogan"
That is followed by Part 2 on the same subject. Check it out.
Would be better if Gill invited him onto a podcast for a chat! Diet a journey of discovery, considering how complex our bodies are.
Hello 👋 Can You Do a Review About Oxalates!! Please and Gracias 😊
Please consider doing a video on oxylates.
I believe wheat gluten are very high in leucine too, very cheap and makes for delicious seitan.
This was an enlightening interview. I'm curious, how do these animal vs. plant protein studies shake out over the long run? Judging from anecdotes, it seems like a lot of former vegans slowly declined in function and health over the course of many years, even if they followed supplement guidelines, exercised, etc.. I guess I'm still hesitant about vegan diets over the long run but this interview definitely changed my views a bit.
I was always super active and ate “healthy”including animal protein all my life then went keto for almost 5 years lost weight, got lean, developed onset type two diabetes, high cholesterol, fatty liver, lacerations of the bowel, hernias. Was told by surgeon that will die I’d I don’t get of the diet I always felt like crap. Then went vegetarian and into vegan for almost ten years, all my Symptoms went away after about 8 months. Now have perfect blood work, feel younger then ever and have no health issues. I am 6’1 walk around about 83kg without working out. Whole food plant based is the best diet.
@@KoreyByrne there is clean keto and there is awful Keto. There are thousands of people that have reversed all of those illnesses you have mentioned eating keto. There are also many many vegans that got sick eating vegan and switched back to eating meat. I guess everyone is different.
Veganism was terrible for me. I persevered for 5 years. I had so many issues with it probably starting with digestion. I would have to suddenly run to the loo once or twice a day. My stomach never told my brain it was full.
I was nutrient starved. Gained 12kg. And a whole lot more issues.
In 6 weeks of changing my diet I have my life back. I've had to face the truth about my biology and health and my place on this planet.
If you see this what do you think of the research that for muscle growth recommendations to eat 2.2g/kg / .8g/lb on the high end (I forgot the Low end)
Also from my experience and from what I’ve heard it does also have a satiating effect that can be helpful for weight loss
I don’t think that much is actually needed if you’re younger, I’ve seen people on 80g at 200lb high teens in body fat and be just fine.
But it is possible they are just gifted or they aren’t building as much as possible
Hey Gil,
Is it possible to get Francois Mariotti for an Interview? I really Love His Book "Vegetarian and Plant Based Diets in Health and Disease Prevention" He is an Expert on Plant and Animal Protein and sadly I cant find any Interviews in English
will try
@@NutritionMadeSimple 💜
@24:00 In US (and other countries) corn crops grown mainly for direct human use and byproduct/waste fed to livestock. Same with soy, rice, cotton, and wheat. Good for efficiency but maybe not for us? Also most antibiotics in US/globally used in livestock. Part of big Corp industry (from our demands over many years) as factor in environmental health.
No a lot of soy is grown for feeding livestocks as they are big in number.. and in order to fatten em up and increase the mass..they are given soy and barley and things like that.. waste/byproducts form the bulk but still quite a bit of soy and barley and other grains/crops are fed to em..
I'm curious if using whey as your main/predominant leucine and essential amino acid source (since whey has such a desirable amino acid content and ratio for muscle preservation) but otherwise eating a plant based diet, whole food, high fiber diet (with some fatty fish thrown in there), would help to avoid some of the potential health issues found in eating meat while reaping the benefits of the similar amino acid profile found in the whey. Yes, whey is still animal but it's low in sat fat and is mostly just protein, so I'd think that it's got to be better on ones body than eating pork and red meat, or even chicken. Thoughts?
In the bodybuilding world, the rule of thumb has always been to aim for 1gr/lb of bodyweight, but I can't find any research to support this. Would the recommendation of consuming 1.2 gr of protein per kg be applicable to people who engage in strenuous exercise such has weightlifting?
Excercise needs more but apparently there's a maximal marginal gain at around 1.6 gr/kg
Yeah 1.6g/kg
Bodybuilders have very low life expectancy and very high heart attack rates.
This was amazing and very eye-opening for me. So question if I decided to get my Proteen by way of plant and chicken and fish is that going to kill my cholesterol level like raising it through the roof versus my cholesterol being at normal levels and where does fruit fall into this equation? Y’all are awesome thank you so much
It's animals foods that have cholesterol, plants don't, though there may be some very rare exceptions. Your dietary cholesterol has a diminishing effect on serum cholesterol as intake goes up. Eg eating 10 eggs won't raise cholesterol twice as much as 5 eggs.
If you like animal foods, one trick you can do is to also consume it with fiber in the same meal. For eg if you're having eggs on toast, also add some spinach or avocado. Fruit and plant foods won't raise your serum cholesterol. Vegans tends to have the lowest cholesterol because they avoid animal products. If your cholesterol is quite high, a better way to get it low is via statins or other cholesterol lowering drugs. You could get it lower than even vegans that way, without being as commited to diet quality.
@@StevenMorello thank you very much, so if I want to keep my protein levels up due to working out and get vitamin K2 eating low quantities of meat should not throw my cholesterol into a dangerous level right?
@@StevenMorello Or consider cholesterol in context, correlation vs causation. Cholesterol is a fundamental building block in the human body. You would be dead without it. Inflammation seems to be the root cause of CVD, not cholesterol. The quality of the food you eat is important.
@@Ibanezyt yeah, this is typical misinformation and deflection. Blood pressure is also required, but high blood pressure is not. Just because you need blood pressure doesn't mean ignore high blood pressure. It's just a often repeated, stupid argument that because you body requires cholesterol, that keeping it low is not useful. Would you ever use this argument for bodyweight with someone who is overweight? - Eg, well, look, a human has to weigh something, so don't worry about being obese.
In any case, CVD is not caused by one thing, its typically multiple things coming together, but if you can control one thing, it can often prevent another, and from studies we know very well how high cholesterol increases risk and low cholesterol decreases risk. So it's likely to do with cholesterol, inflammation and aging, among other things. But cholesterol seems to be one of the big players, because if you lower it enough and long enough, you see a huge benefit in reduction of heart disease.
Now of course it's possible that keeping healthy and exercising may also help so do that as well.
i am really confused about leucine. i was under the impression that leucine is stimulating mTORC1, leading to insulin resistance by its downstream effects. metformin, a diabetes drug, inhibits leucine mediated mTORC1 stimulation.
leucine may acutely help with glucose metabolism but may increase insuline resistance in the long term.
i would be very interested in your take on this. could leucine and mTOR signaling be implicated in the pathogenesis of diabetes and is „growth“ inducing signaling something we would want as grown adult humans? what about cancer? beta cell burden?
seeking out leucine rich foods is directly contradicting a paradigm in the plant based community about pathogenesis of cancer, diabetes etc :) some of us actively restrict branch chained amino acids for that reason.
Chronic elevation in mtor may be linked to health issues and certain cancers sure. But leucine and exercise result in acute increases in mtor and igfs, which are all linked with longevity and healthspan. Muscle wasting and osteoporosis are some of the leading morbidities in older age. You can't aim to keep mtor always low and strive to keep a high lean body mass and BMD in older age.
@@thewowleader thanks for your reply! frailty is a concern in the elderly, which may in part be attenuated by a leucine rich diet. i‘m still very concerned about the possibility of negative effects by long term, life-long overstimulation of mTORc1 which is happening in the context of a western diet rich in animal protein.
what i want is a plant based cohort that eats a leucine rich diet long term, that still shows all the benefits of a plant based diet pattern.
to be honest, the data confuses me and a video would be helpful :) i‘d love to reap the benefits of leucine rich diet while also maintaining the health benefits of a whole foods plant based diet pattern.
@@Lyn-ud3qe hi, i'm interested to know what your diet consists of if you don't mind sharing
@@evilsnowflake7414 i eat a plant based, predominantly whole foods diet, rich in whole grains, greens, fruit, nuts/seeds and legumes. i keep saturated fat pretty low and fiber high. i take a supplement for b12, vit d, selenium, zink, iodine and creatine. in germany, foods are very low in iodine and selenium because the soil here is low in it, thats why people supplement it.
@@thewowleader There's not alot of good peer reviewed evidence that increasing consumption of leucine leads to decreased sarcopenia. Sarcopenia seems to be mostly caused by sedentary lifestyles. Excess protein also contributes to kidney disease.
Most people are way over obsessed with protein.
I just put 1 cup of steel cut oats into Cronometer and it shows 1.6g of Leucine. One cup of frozen corn provides .4g. One cup of lentils has 1.3g and 1 cup of ground beef has 4.3g. So Leucine seems to be readily available in the plant based world but you might want to try and get an extra dose along the way for good measure!! Is that a good way to look at it?
Probably outside of his wheelhouse but it would have been interesting to hear his thoughts on the role of methionine in ageing.
will definitely broach in the future. my PhD was in food and aging! :)
Wheelhouse
@@michaelashley2855 Wheelhouse?
@@georgehornsby2075 Long-standing slang term for "area of expertise."
Finally a down to earth discussion about the twitterbug trigger effect of leucine ;)
The VA has a new page on diet example, which is as I have you shown on your channel, down to the water that is served
It is called the MOVE program
Please interview, debate Dr Don Layman - quite different perspective on plant protein
What about the possible link between protein and cancer?... (Animal Vs Plant).... Any validity to this??
Hi, thank you for your fascinating interview, I posted earlier a link where the Retraction Watch website has a post about the CoI of Dr Phillips and I wanted to know if you could review what they state in the post you can find it if you look for it with the following title "Eleven papers corrected after nutrition prof fails to disclose patent, company ties" my previous post has the link but probably youtube filtering system caught it has spam and deleted it. Thanks again!
to me maintaining your healthy weight in long term is all about how much you eat (portion control). calorie input must equal calorie that your body burns. as you get oder you must eat less because your body doesn't burn as much calories as when you were younger.
You can eat 2,000 calories from cucumber and pumpkins only and you will lose weight. Eat same 2,000 calories from Pizza and Soda and you will gain weight (and diseases).
Calorie in Calorie out is a Junk food industry propaganda. Coca Cola promotes this concept.
Bottomline : Eat natural and you will never need to count calories . You will never be able to overeat natural foods like pumpkins and beans unlike pizza or burger.
Great video.
It seems that any iso something study concludes that the outcome is the same.
Kind of makes sense, doesn't it?
The problem is that these iso something studies don't prove anything.
What about a study where you compare just steak with just beans? Where people can eat until.satisfied. no iso anything. No supplements, all real food.
Unethical they call that. So it will never happen.
That would be more interesting.
Scientific consistency is beautiful
So does this channel nutritionnmade simple reccomend vegan or meat base diets ? I've done both I've been vegan for while
Veganism is a philosophy against animal exploitation/cruelty, so I'd definitely recommend it for that reason alone!
How would you construct a diet to provide 1.2G to 1.6G/KG bodyweight of protein while at the same time restricting methionine?
It might not be doable. Reason of fightaging appears to believe that rodent models suggest that one might need to restrict methionine by 75% (off the average intake) for methionine restriction benefits to kick in, if any benefits exist. He also states that is unlikely that even a standard strict vegan diet would result in 75% reduction. My guess is that methionine restriction benefits seen in small animals would not provide a meaningful life extension benefit in humans. (I base this on calorie restriction benefits not porting over from mouse lemurs to monkeys)
You probably can't get low enough methionine levels on a reasonably strict diet if the criteria above is used. One strategy that could be tried instead is to select low methionine protein sources and to supplement with prodigious amounts of glycine. Since glycine has been shown to clear methionine from the liver, one theory is that one could reduce the impact of methionine through glycine supplementation. My guess is this still would not achieve a great effect.
It should be noted that glycine was one of the few substance in ITP trials that extended the lives of mice. However, they gave the mice prodigious amounts of glycine. It was 8% of their diet. The mice also did not get that large of a life extension benefit.
So could you reduce your methionine by some minimum amount and make up the rest with a few grams of glycine. My guess would be that the answer is "no," but I still take 3 grams of supplemental glycine per day ( :
@@jackbuaer3828 Thanks for the informative reply Jack.
I just started weight lifting and my buddy said that we have to eat 1 g per pound. Ive asked other people who've been lifting for years and they also said 1 gram per pound
I used to supplement leucine until I read that MTOR has been linked to aging. Thoughts or information?
From what I've read and researched, it's only when people are constantly eating and never really give themselves much of a break that you run into issues. You want MTOR to signal growth at some point, which I think is triggered with about 3g of leucine, you just don't want to keep MTOR up constantly, just like glucose. So if someone works out 5 days a week and after the workout they had had a meal with good carbs, fiber, vegetables and something that gives their body at least 3g of Leucine in it then that is helping build or retain muscle mass. But you've got to give yourself a break during the day by not eating 30g of protein every 3-4 hrs. MTOR is not always a bad thing, just don't go nuts on it. It should go up at some point but then go back down for long periods of time.
Is 1.2g protein per kg for a bodybuilder the same recommendation?
Whey comes from cows that are fed soy and corn that has been sprayed with glyphosate (most often under the name of Roundup). While soy and corn are relatively cheap they are far from ideal as a source of food for cows. Glyphosate is a known carcinogen (outlawed in many countries, including our neighbors Canada). How does that weigh into the decision of what type of protein supplement to consume?
I feel that you had listened too much to social media drama queens presenting misinformation, or those ambulance chasing law firms you see on tv who will gladly present misinformation to non technical judges to profit from the misfortunes of others. Glyphosates aren't, "killing everybody slowly". Oncology clinics aren't filled with people who got cancer from Roundup. The farm worker who had gotten cancer in the landmark court case, had accidentally doused himself several times in Roundup. This isn't normal behavior or something most consumers would be doing. He hadn't used the product as directed. He hadn't been wearing PPE. People need to remember that it's the dose that makes the poison. Whether you agree with the above or not, I would like for you to consider the following: 1. How much glyphosate (or antibiotics, for that matter) would be present in animal tissue after it's been cooked? 2. How much glyphosate would be present in a fruit, vegetable or grain, after it's been washed or boiled? People should be rinsing what's eaten raw. Organic foods are supposed to be pesticide free, but even the small amount that remains in non organic foods, probably doesn't pose a health risk to most people. Read the following:
www.verywellhealth.com/glyphosate-5084577
@nutrition made simple!
I was particularly interested in the quantities of foods required from the menu provided in the first video.
Could you please provide a sample including an equal baseline protein goal in grams for each menu, and how many calories it would amount to?
If one has to eat a pound of beans and oats to equate what the animal based menu provides in nutrients - then it would seem this would be unrealistic.
the protein goal in grams and total calories were both shown (they were equal for both diets). you mean how many grams of food was in each?
Is rice good for you? Assuming it is lundberg rice and not fiked with chemicals from growing process
Brown rice is fine. White rice is as bad as white bread.
how does this whole thing of Protein complementation work with plant protein? If i wanted it easy I would eat beef all day since it gives me over 20g/100g. I mean judging from the crude protein perspective I had to eat 300g of chickpeas to match the crude protein alone and then I would also have to account for the lesser bioavailability which would make me eat even more. So the question I have is 2 fold: is the bioavailability affected if I combine certain plant proteins? (I really dont know how this is supposed to work but who knows. The DIAAS goes up if i combine) and how much more Plant material would i have to eat to match the content of beef or cheese lets say. I dont want to eat 1,5kg of chickpeas every day :(
I hear you! And my concern is the same. As an older guy, I'm just not eating as much as I used to, nor am I eating as often but I lift weights 5 days a week, so the best way for me to get the necessary nutrients is to eat, after my morning workout, good carbs, good fats, fiber, vegetables, Salmon or ground chicken, as well as some whey protein. That way I'm getting everything post-workout, without having to eat pounds and pounds of things like chickpeas you mention, just to get my leucine up to trigger muscle growth and/or maintenance. But after that first meal I don't eat again till 7pm so my MTOR goes down through the day; don't want that chronically elevated! Cheers.
Bit confused about 20:45, cooked lentils and kidney beans have twice the amount of protein compared to milk? I do agree with meat having more protein in the same amount ofc
Milk is mostly water, so I don't think it's strange to hear that beans have more protein.
It's a rather pointless comparison in the first place isn't it? When would you ever swap one for the other? Beans in your coffee? Milk chilli?
The only remotely useful way to compare them would be per calorie. 100g of cooked kidney beans are 130 cals and 8.5g of protein. 130 cals worth of semi skilled milk is 282ml which is 10g of protein. So milk, cal for cal, has more protein than beans.