Thanks Rob. Jonny has too! It is one of those cars which instantly creates debate and divide. There's a few things he isn't happy about, but it isn't the looks particularly. I mean, the modern Land Cruiser is an expedition legend but no looker. The new Defender? Jonny reckons it is dating quickly, and still doesn't trust JLR's reliability record, which is a big problem when you are selling a rugged adventure vehicle.
Ratcliffe lives in Monaco where he can pay no tax, so he is not Britain's wealthiest man. In March 2019, INEOS said it would close its Middlesbrough manufacturing plant unless it is allowed to 'defer compliance' with rules designed to prevent air and water pollution. Don't give him another penny.
Ratcliffe's enormous wealth has been built on a combination of aggressive lobbying, high risk investments, highly polluting industries, tax dodging and union-busting. INEOS, the chemicals company Ratcliffe owns and controls, has been criticised for causing air and water pollution, dangerous leaks, fires and explosions, as well as creating vast amounts of plastic waste and carbon emissions. It is notorious for its aggressive stance against unions and workers rights and for lobbying against environmental regulations. It has been leading the charge to open the UK to fracking, though that has currently been stalled by nation-wide campaigns and determined local opposition.
Important note for those that would actually buy - Ineos are making easily available workshop manuals and spare parts ordering direct to customer. You don't have to go through some BS manufacturer only dealership to get your vehicle serviced. Basically showing every other manufacturer how Right-to-repair should be done.
@@PJ-om2wq not sure TBH. When asked (speaking to the head mechanical guy doing their Australian prototype tour) about diag readers and if my local non-Ineos mechanic would be about to diagnose faults, he said that it would all be accessible by standard OBD2 style readers. I'm not that well educated on different types of OBD2 readers, so not sure what that means software wise, how many versions of OBD2 there are with can-bus etc, or how current the software has to be. But it was apparent that you wouldn't need a special Ineos branded tool. Their attitude (on the tour) was that there should be very little such resistance - from Ineos - to getting mechanical issues resolved (and you back on the road asap) - not sure if this attitude is replicated world wide.
Glad to hear that. The only concern for me, at least here in the US, is that they have no repair shops (no one even knows what Ineos is here). So either we just aren't the target market or there will be a serious problem when it comes to major repairs and you've got nowhere to take it. Also, the BMW B57/B58 has had some issues with significant oil consumption and cylinder scoring. For this application I really wish they went with something more reliable than a BMW product under the hood (and preferably naturally aspirated).
@@sugerbear586 yeah, exactly... any one of us chimps can do oil changes and brakes, some basic suspension without having a lift... but it's the engine specifically that worries me. The ZF trans is probably fine- they've got a good track record.
Am an overlanding enthusiast in US (California); test drove this car yesterday... best car I've ever driven: e v e r. I squealed with glee when I saw it for the first time, and I squealed again when I was handed over the key, and the key actually functioned as a key!! Let me pause there for a moment: a key where I don't have to worry about batteries, and messages from the computer telling me that the key power is low and so-on and so-forth. The engine had a beautiful sound, and I understand it's an excellent engine, as it's the same one in a BMW we have. The way it drove on the motorway, and on the less speedy roads brought a smile to my face. The way I sat in the driver's seat... even at 5' (yes, I'm short), I felt in total command of everything around me; perfect visual of road and side views... the seat was comfortable, the steering wheel, perfect. It was perfection. We have a Jeep that we overland in, and I've test driven Defenders in the past; have seen the new Lexus and the new Land Cruiser... this ECLIPSES all of these by a long shot in my view. We've also had a G Wagon in the past, an older one... what a hunk of junk. Anyway, I cannot say enough good things about this car... simply cannot. In fact, I should be out selling them. LOL. This is my absolute dream car.
My uncle Arthur Goddard was the man who engineered the series one land rover after the Second World War said to me that when he heard that they were discontinuing the Defender that they could have engineered their way out of the problems facing them with new safety requirements and such,and when he saw the development of the Grenadier said to me there you are told you it could be done so he endorsed it, sadly he died in Australia at 102 years old ill miss him he was great fun to be with.
A lovechild between a Gelände Wagen and a Defender. I drove the Gelände Wagen in the Danish army many years ago. This car looks superb to me. I think Land Rover has forgotten their roots.
Ineos has also forgotten what LandRover was: a cheap workhorse. The Grenadier ist WAY too expensive to be a workhorse, and to be a substitute for the original LandRover. Don't forget: LandRover was never really good, but it was cheap to buy and cheap to maintain. I remember a LandRover that fell on it's side: they got it back on his tyres by using their own winch and some trees and continued driving. Only the mirror was broken.
@@flexiblebirdchannel Way to expensive in Australia.For the same money,or cheaper, we have the Land Cruiser models,70 series and LC300 models.Proven reliability,the best resale in the business,more aftermarket accessories than probably any other vehicle around,dealers in every corner of the country(around 300),and numerous models to choose from.Huge competition for Grenadia.
New Defender Owner here. The Ineos looks fantastic. It certainly ticks all the emotional boy boxes with the helicopter vibe and giant switches. I like the flexibility of being able to add on. It really does look well thought out and designed for the intended purpose. It’s a very appealing package. But it’s also a new vehicle from a new vehicle company. As a result it’s impossible to make any claims on ruggardness or reliability, yet. It could be incredible of subject to a full recall. We’ll know in a couple of years. So it’s a little unfair for commenters to make claims against the new Defender, for now. Also I don’t think I could live with the drive position. I do big kilometers in my Defender and it’s sensational for eating up the miles on or off road. My 2 year old 110 has just topped 36000 kms with 20K on dirt and musc of that with a camper strapped to the back. It’s been brilliant. Flawless. I like the Ineos but here in Oz it looks like it’ll cost more than the Defender (as does the 300 series Land Crusier here) but with slightly less comfort for long days in the car. I agree the new Defender is what the Discovery should have been and I came from a Disco 4. But the Defender is better on road and off road than the Discovery or the old Defender. Yep it’s posh. But it’s also incredibly capable. I’ve not driven an Ineos, like most of the Defender haters here haven’t driven a new Defender, but I hope the Ineos does really well and is the vehicle people hope it is. I’m not trading my Defender for one though. I already have the vehicle that’s right for me.
Capable yes, incredibly capable absolutely not, for the simple reason that it's not a Defender, it's a Disco 6 at best. Which means, it's not rough and tumble like the Defender or now the Grenadier. Also, If the gren is new, so is the Dico 6, and it's a pathetic wet dream of some young yuppie designers without a clue to the outdoors except for a briefing now and again. So from all the equivalent tests and trials of the Disco 6 and the Gren, the latter is far far more capable and practical. Don't get me wrong, I'm a die hard Landy fan, I have a proper Land Rover, a Series III.
There is something like that set up in Australia. i think it's a Landcruiser challenge though. A few of the early reviewers of the Grenadier have mentioned it. There are a coupel of UA-cam vids about it.
This vehicle would destroy any other vehicle as it was made for purpose. I am closely watching as this was once considered near impossible to do. To create a ground up vehicle from a small company was believed to be a quality assurance nightmare. I want one but in the Netherlands I suspect this vehicle would be a non starter after it is hit with all the fines/penalties.
Jonny never commented before but I just have to say you are such a class act, you can tell you work really hard to produce these videos, you’re a wealth of knowledge whilst delivering so much useful information without ever being boring I hope you realise we all really appreciate the graft you put in 👏🏻
Great review. Respect with calling out LRs arrogance with regards to product reliability. Most reviewers don’t have the stones. From the look of it Steyr and Ineos have put a lot of effort into the reliability of this even by delaying its launch. I think this will be a big success here and abroad.
Scott, appreciate the comment. Glad you noticed Jonny calling out JLR after so many years of lurking around the bottom of reliability surveys. You cannot market a go-anywhere 4WD if it fundamentally isn't properly developed before retail.
@@TheLateBrakeShow What's the old aussie saying? Drive a landrover if you want to go into the outback, drive a land cruiser if you want to come back out? :p
Great review, totally objective and very nicely produced! I love the Grenadier, watching your review, I kept finding myself saying "that's quite clever" when you pointed out various features, and it struck me, there aren't many cars these days that you really describe as "clever" - this is one of them. I love Ineos' single minded approach to the Grenadier, I hope it is enough of a success that they can make them in reasonable numbers and become a mainstream manufacturer over time.
Excellent review. Ineos looks like they took a hellish risk, and nailed it. I think the new Defender looks cool, but it's a technology over loaded intergalactic space ship. The Ieous is 85% work tool, 15% fashion accessory.
I run a 130 tipper in my job as a tree surgeon. I've had another previous to this and an old 200tdi engined 90 before that. I take my hat off to Jim Ratcliffe for bringing this to market. You hit the nail on the head Jonny with describing how Land Rover itself lost its way but its all down to the market. I certainly wouldn't be able to afford one of these new whereas the Nouveau Riche will....and then discard it once the novelty wears off. Still an excellent engineering feat and hopefully it sells well.🙏
JLR haven’t lost their way. They made a conscious decision to go upmarket. The jury is still out on whether they have made the right decision long term. Short term, given that dealers are offering customers a profit on their 6mth old Defenders, it’s working for them.
@@hughmarcus1 There's room in the market for both this and the new defender I feel. The defender is a great vehicle and I think it was the right car to replace the defender with decent sales volume. My friend who owns one is more than just happy with it. The Ineos will appeal to less people I feel and had Land Rover produced it, I think they'd come in for some stick for not embracing new technology. But I personally would like to own one and that's the rub. There's not a right or wrong answer to car buying. Just choice and personal preference.
i drive a big wheeled & lifted 300 Tdi 110 defender as my daily, its cold, damp, icy inside , slow ,noisy and i love it , it is what it is , it's honest, it doesn't pretend to be what it isn't, i saw those traits in the Ineos Grenadier when the idea was first mooted, i like what i see, i hope they do well, as you say built in obsolescence is an accepted "thing" and it shouldnt' be, i hope this goes on to change the current thinking of most of today's manufacturers who think its ok to dip their hands in your pocket every 3-5 years to sell you a new car in case you old (new) one needs an MOT or its ridiculously overcomplicated tech package becomes troublesome or out of vogue.. this IS the way forward we need more people like Sir James and less Elon Musk's in my opinion.
Against a lot of advice to the contrary, a good friend of mine bought a Defender here in Australia when they first came out. 48,000kms and 1 year later of relatively easy driving with some off-road and it required a full drivetrain replacement, including engine, gearbox, suspension. He had to wait around 8 months for it to be fixed and was told that he would only get 12 months warranty for the new bits - original warranty was 5 years. LR have been a nightmare to deal with - zero updates, no offers to compensate, not returning calls etc. - and refuse to budge on warranty. Others here in Oz have had the same problem - several with far fewer kms - and now their replacement engines have failed. As it stands, my friend is not willing to take the car back until he gets some compensation for depreciation losses while the car was unavailable to him and a warranty on the replacement engine that shows the company will back their brand. If he took it back now, he would inherit a huge potential liability. Meanwhile, I'm enjoying endless trouble-free on and off-roading, some quite rough in my '07 utilitarian Nissan and am planning to replace it with a Grenadier in the next 2 years. Landrover? Not on your life. Thanks for the great review.
JLR did get it right at one point. My Tdci 110 has been excellent. Owned it since new. It's had a clutch and the output shaft. Otherwise just a couple of little niggles. Paintwork wasn't the best even when new. But otherwise it's been great. Such a pity the current crop are bloated, ugly and unreliable.
When I heard the old Defender had a death-knell, I feared the worst and history has proved my fears. Then the "new" defender arrived those fears were confirmed- the whole thing was a total misconception, sorry to sound self-centered, but all of my friends with 90ies & Defenders felt the same. I could go on & on in the same line......stop it John. The way the Grenadier and its primary conception as utility vehicle is certainly impressive; I´d have preferred to see the basic model without leather seats, carpets etc. and the price of one as I listen to my gut-feeling will be the runner. Finally, with all the electrics & electronics, there is more to go wrong- the blinkers don´t work so the engine stops and you´re stuck in the middle of nowhere...call the breakdown service reach you when you´re stuck halfway up Ingelborough--------- time will tell. Still a damned good idea, only wish I had the money to buy one, in the meantime I´ll carry on with my ´84 90 with over 600,000 on the clock!
That’s not how warranty works in Oz and your friend should know that. The original warranty will not only stand but we have an implied consumer protection on top of that. Plus some of the most robust lemon laws in the world. Including me, I know 5 new Defender owners and so far no issues in our group. And anyway, this has nothing to do with the Ineos, does it? It could be better, or worse…..
As an Australian Citizen why didn't he go 2 a Consumer Lawyer . Consumer Laws in Australia 🇦🇺 are real Strict . Land Drover are a Joke. U pay massive $$$ 4 a top of the range Range Rover & potentially buying a Lemon 🍋 as there break downs & repair costs are outrageous . There's a Chap up just outside Kilmore Victoria who Land Rover / Range Rover send there problem child's 2 to get fixed . Over priced Rubbish 🗑 😅
I love that you’ve gone from mainstream telly. To having your own success in your own right. Note book in hand. I’d watch you all day, Johnny. Thanks mate. Thanks for making it work and giving us a “go to” car man. I know it works for you. This video is testament to that. That you get the cars to test. But we also need to hear what Johnny thinks. So I’m glad you’ve made it work out.
Great review, and a very cool car. The one thing I would say is that as someone who would use it for work I’d still get leather. Much easier to clean, and generally more comfortable. Doesn’t seem brutally expensive in this day and age tbh
As a company we looked at so many options for 4x4s that can tow 3500kg. This vehicle will be abused and worked as a commercial vehicle by us. I don’t think there is anything else on the market that provides 5 seats, that looks comfortable, versatile, has a large roof rack capability and so many options for power take off. Can’t wait to get it and using it as a tool.
I was reading online that this doesn't qualify as a commercial vehicle in the UK as it's payload is too low? Is there truth to that? You'd want to know before ordering!
@@MD-uu5nt If you can get a Peugeot 206 commercial i'm sure something of this size will qualify. As far as i know to qualify as a commercial the vehicle has to have it's rear seats and seat belts removed to ensure it can't carry passengers. Some blanking of the rear windows might be required too. My Discovery 2 commercial had rear seats and seat belts plus anchor points removed as well as blanked off rear door windows and window motors so they won't open.
Been a life long Landy fan and still am. But have to agree Johnny they have lost their way with the off road market. See very few farmers with new style Defenders. The Grenadier is certainly the offspring of the mating of a Land Rover and G Wagon. Absolutely love it Andre's another great video. 👍
You nailed it in every department!! From the owner of an original 110 Defender (albeit a heavily modified JLR V8 one) LR Missed a trick.... big time!! One of the best car reviews I've ever had the pleasure of watching! Full stop
So glad you mentioned the issue of the left foot. I found it so uncomfortable and painful to drive, it stopped me ordering one. Which was a shame as I waited 3 years to test drive one and its useless for me.
Same here. I had difficulty staying comfortable in my previous Defender during a central Australian tour and day of driving. I don't want to risk discovering my left leg is going numb after a few hours behind the wheel.
This is everything the new Defender should have become. I love the refreshing no nonsense well thought out, basic approach and thought given towards obsolescence. Excellent review chap!
@@maxtorque2277 I don't know, they have a lot of other volume products on sale. Can't really see the new Defender being sold to military etc etc, which must account for something. Think they've just sold out.
@@Bobblenob I bet more will be spotted in towns and cities than on farms. Much too expensive for a launch and every review I have seen criticises the old recirculating ball steering.
Great review, super detailed. I love that Jonny loves all types of cars, no bias. None of this, “oh the steering isn’t like a sports car”, nearly all 4x4 reviews say this, it just sounds daft. You have to review it for what it is.
Exactly man. They would say an offroader has terrible steering or stability but never say something like "Ferrari is terrible because it can't offroad" 😄
Very interested in this as a replacement for my Amarok. Love the idea that it's designed to last, hate throwaway culture. I think it's almost the perfect vehicle for me. It's what the original Defender always wished it could be.
Ratcliffe lives in Monaco where he can pay no tax, so he is not Britain's wealthiest man. In March 2019, INEOS said it would close its Middlesbrough manufacturing plant unless it is allowed to 'defer compliance' with rules designed to prevent air and water pollution. Don't give him another penny.
Ratcliffe's enormous wealth has been built on a combination of aggressive lobbying, high risk investments, highly polluting industries, tax dodging and union-busting. INEOS, the chemicals company Ratcliffe owns and controls, has been criticised for causing air and water pollution, dangerous leaks, fires and explosions, as well as creating vast amounts of plastic waste and carbon emissions. It is notorious for its aggressive stance against unions and workers rights and for lobbying against environmental regulations. It has been leading the charge to open the UK to fracking, though that has currently been stalled by nation-wide campaigns and determined local opposition.
Hats off to the bazillionaire for getting the Grenadier to market - I really hope it lives upto expectations and fills a niche. . Shame no manual option but total accept why. ... wouldn't be surprised if one of the said speculative farmers was a certain Harry Metcalfe! Ps. great review Jonny.
I like Metcalfe but he seems like a Land Rover sycophant. If I remember right he's also worked for JLR (something to do with SVO) so there's probably bias there. I don't remember any of the reviews of their models on his channel being anything but overwhelmingly positive. Maybe I'm wrong but that's the impression I've always got from his videos.
Great review Jonny, I put a reservation in for one and went on the prototype tour when their driver took us round a short track, off road, it was ok, but didn't grab me, I drove home in my Discovery3 and had a think about it. The problem I have is Landrover has gone too up-market, as you pointed out. There is a local Ineos dealer near me and has told me I can bring my caravan up and test drive with it hitched up, Landrover do not offer this, so I will do a proper tow test and .... Well done Jonny,
Test driving the Grenadier today 3/21/23 here in Tampa Florida USA - your review is one the first/best I've seen of a production unit. An honest look at the Grenadier on the road which has been lacking in most others reviews.....Thank You
A note on the rear doors/seats for INEOS to hopefully fix. It would work better if the 60/40 split aligned with the rear doors so you can poke long things out the back little door, without losing two seats.
Away from the nice car: Why is Mr. Radcliffe so hyped? He supported Brexit and promised a lot with the Grenadier. Jobs, industrial development etc. And what happened? He has his wealth 'safed' outside of Great Britain. The Grenadier was developed in Austria and is being built in France. Not a Penny goes into the British economy, no British employee finds work in the industrial sector. Like so many Brexiteers, he has promised many things and only thought of himself and his assets. Really great guy...
Having lived in the Middle East and Africa for a number of years and used JLR, Mitsubishi and Land Cruisers I absolutely agree with Jonny on JLR being fragile and not guaranteed to get you home. We have all experienced limp mode. Land Cruiser and Mitsubishi are way more reliable but the Ineos looks very interesting, I would definitely consider it and will watch reliability of the brand with interest.
Problem with the ineos is a small fuel tank 90-95 litres no room underneath for larger tank, also need to see what it is like lifted and on bigger tyres.
Great review Jonny, hats off to everyone involved on this project. I think the outcome is great, Sir Jim saw a missed opportunity by LR and has had the courage and conviction to get it off the ground.
I would buy this vehicle in a heartbeat over an LR, it is what the Farming and commercial vehicle sector needs, especially the forthcoming hydrogen version (are they working in partnership with JCB I wonder ?) The looks will grow on us as time passes. My only concern is the auto box and it's reliability and cost of repair. Welldone Mr Radcliffe and of course Jonny.
The ZF is probably one of the most reliable gearboxes made and is exceptionally well proven, so I honestly don’t believe you need be concerned. My Ranger has the previous six speed version [built under license by Ford] and even these are fairly bomb-proof. Mine has done 80’000 miles now, much of it towing 3.5 tons on very demanding coast roads [going across and up and down valleys] and it has been fine. Changed its oil at 65,000 and that’s it.
Brilliant honest and open review. Hopefully Sir Jim will watch ( and look at comments) and take note of those internal driving comfort issues you mentioned - which would probably get annoying on a long journey. Otherwise, he has done what he set out to do and well done to him.
As one mostly SITS in a car this will likely be an enormous exercise in futility and an economic flop without solid ergonomics. All in spite of being otherwise very appealing in many ways.
Thanks for a great review of a production version of the Grenadier. I really hope that this project of passion stacks up for the many farmers, utility and outward bound companies and other businesses when they experience one & do the figures for viability of running these in their fleets.
Great video and really good Review, shame that Ineos kind of missed the point. The Grenadier was supposed to be an "old defender" replacement perfect for working and farming etc at a lower price point than the new defender, but what they have ended up making is a new defender rival with a base price of £70,000 which is no where near an affordable car and is £18k over the base price of a defender 90 Hardtop and £13k over the base 110 Hardtop....
I agree with you - I wish someone (like these guys) would build a pickup truck with ALL of the utility features that matter, BUT with a Manual HI/LO diff lock 4x4 and absolutely zero electronic anything. ( OK maybe electronic fuel injection is probably necessary) but other than that I want a car that I could buy at a reasonable price and plan to keep.
I can’t go off-roading but somehow this makes me excited about it. What a fantastic machine. Not filled with screens, sensitive knobs and multifunction buttons. You press one big fat button and “clunk” it’s done. Hear those heavy doors close.
Before you all salivate too much. It does have a pile of tech & it’s got 35 electronic sensors for the engine + more for the gearbox. How will that all stack up on the plains of Namibia? We shall see.
@@hughmarcus1 It won't obviously! I knew about the Grenadier and I'm certain it was meant to be EV. What happened there, I don't understand why this is an ICE. EV's are well suited to off-road, nobody is going to go on regular long road trips with this. If this was EV it would appeal to more people and retain value better.
There is something very satisfying about a very simple, utility manual car. I like my 'modern' 2011 car but to be honest overall I prefer the simplicity of the Mk1 Caddy & Mk2 Golf I used to drive. Nobody needs heated seats, auto wipers, auto lights, auto this and that.
@@Jamessansome it was never meant to be an EV. The EV is coming in the future though. The Grenadier only has the core basic electronics to be able to pass regulations and some markets even has bad fuel filters to cope with those conditions. How an EV will be used in deep Africa where people usually carry fuel to travel a couple thousand miles is beyond me.
I can imagine these being very popular on estates and big shooting grounds and the like where they want the classic, rugged defender looks for transporting around their fancy clients but a bit better comfort!
@@JamesWilliam70 I just seen the price yesterday, for Canada. It is just over $91k Canadian. Over $30k more than my 4Runner TRD Off Road lol. This thing is absurd lol... Utility vehicles are supposed to be cheap😂
Thanks Jonny for a brilliant no bs review. I have ordered one and waiting delivery. I agree with the grudge analogy. I wonder what Jim would have developed if LR let him have the tooling and production rights. My view is LR were worried that he might improve the old Defender and out sell the vastly over complicated model they now offer.
It is slightly amusing though that the Ineos is meant to be the serious real world off roader but the Defender has better wading depth and approach angles. Plus it's different level on road. The Ineos needs to be bullet proof reliability wise I think, otherwise you have a Defender if you like it, or you have an L200 if you need to do serious off road work.
I think for the UK you hit the nail on the head with the Grenadier filling the gap left over by land rovers relentless drive into luxury cars. The fact we can't get the 79 series land cruiser over here in blighty means the Grenadier has a good shot at the market, however it has a lot to prove in Asia, the middle East, Africa and Australia. If it lives up to expectations then it really does have a good shout at being a hit. I think it has a better spec then 79 series, the engine providing it's reliable is a better fit over Toyota's V8 diesel(although it's bomb proof). I've always been baffled why toyota didn't fit the 3l diesel to the 79 series for sales in europe, I think they are missing a trick. Can't wait to start seeing these on UK roads in the flesh
It’s like we’re in a parallel universe where BMW didn’t tire of Rover, and kept refining the original Defender. Complete with one of their own engines under the bonnet. This is like the off-road version of a modern MINI; keeping the ethos of the original, but developing it into a product that’s a better fit for today’s market. While I don’t really care for new MINIs (I think they’ve strayed too far from the Issigonis original), I think the Grenadier keeps enough of the essence of the Defender to be really appealing. It’s a big thumbs up from me.
Excellent review as usual Jonny. I just can’t get on board with this car though. I can understand why some people are excited about it but I still think it’s a very niche proposition and simply can’t imagine them finding enough buyers to make it worthwhile. Also find it bizarre that it’s being praised for being quirky…if Land Rover had put this on sale they would have been crucified for it being a retro mish-mash.
AGREE, a great honest review , quirky is brave in todays ultra samey boring - must conform to the average , but i think people have become conditioned , groomed into conforming and become boring & soft and want heated this & that electric this that and have manbun's and wear sliders thinking they are cool, Each manufacturer used to have a brand identity that's long log gone, just look at the raft of nondescript SUV type vehicles available , all we have is a badge and general averageness , how often do you use the 8 electric seat motors? be honest we you really need 1/4 of the electrical junk a modern car has? that will go wrong in 8 years and cost £100+ VAT an hour at least an hour to fix? but its provided because of the yummy mummy focus groups they talk to , who cant be arsed to reach up to close a tailgate and would rather push a button , the world has got lazy and everyone is paying the price in the dumbed down world where your looked down on if your car is more than 3 years old... i think this car is a breath of fresh air in the stench of consumerism.
Well it wasn't made for you just like tesla isn't made for everyone. It's made for offroaders and people who tour in the outback. It will sell to those.
Toyota are still selling large quantities of 79 series land cruisers, they are neither cheap or new, mine was made in 1988, not sure what year they came out. There is a solid long term market for this kind of 4x4 and very little competition. I think it will find its market and do well.
I love it, can't afford it but still love it. The principle of a car lasting far longer is why I bought a Subaru. Time will tell but well over 100k and it runs like new. I also like honesty. No emission scandal with Subaru, they told the truth from Day 1. Great car, great review, thank you.
I think you made some good points. As a defender Land Rover guy for about 40 years, I still have a Defender 90, I am waiting for the pickup to come out at the end of this year.
A well put together replacement for a lookalike, everything thought out and in its place, the over crowded switch and button layout would probably take some getting used too, however for lots of off road use, imho a cage protection cover is required for those rear lights.
I too have been following this car since its inception. Having worked with Ineos for over 15 years, I knew that if they put their mind to it they would produce a great car. I signed up for one as soon as I could and put in an order as soon as ordering was open. I look forward to getting my Ineos in the next couple of months. Like the farmers mentioned, I will have to be dragged kicking and screaming out of my 3.2l Ranger which I absolutely love both on and off road. I moved to the Ranger after 16 different Land Rover products ending up with an L405 Range Rover SDV8 that was in for warranty work 4 times in the 10 months and 16,000 miles I owned it, one of which was for a new gearbox. When I got it serviced and they charged me £1,100 for supplying and fitting new front brake pads (not discs), the car was sold within 24 hours and the love affair with my Ranger started.
While I have a new Grenadier on order, the Ranger is a fine commercial vehicle. The very latest model [which I don’t have] with the twin turbo 2.0 diesel and ten speed automatic is awesome and even rides comfortably. It’s not my choice for a long distance car though. I will not be exchanging the Ranger for the Grenadier, both of which will be good as I enter old age. That age progression will be my limiting factor and there will come a point where these vehicles will become superfluous to my needs, no doubt.
I also think Landrover went over the edges and going to fancy. I'm a big fan of the Series Landrovers for work, offroading and also traveling. Yes, not much comfort, but they got me everywhere and back. I would choose to go even more basic and cheaper with the grenadier if i could wish for it.
Just what the old Defender should’ve morphed into. Not the ultra chic Chelsea tractor Range Rover already covers that base. Grenadier Deserves to do well. Good Review 👍🏻
Imagine if the Defender had evolved over the years like the Wrangler instead of staying stuck in 1983 and then suddenly getting replaced by a Discovery LR4 renamed as the Defender.
Lovely thing this is. Way better than a new Land Rover and it just drips character from every corner of its boxy appearance. Also a good car for Doug to review, because there are many quirks and features
i bought a new td5 in 2002 sold it 4 years ago at 17 years with 190,000 miles on clock all hard rough work on farm with lot of heavy towing ,most reliable one i have had but chassis was getting very rusty cant remember what i paid ,think i added £9000 ontop of a 7 year old trade in defender currently run a 10 year old swb Shogun warrior which to be honest i love
This was a really good review and tbh I agreed with the fact landrover has gone in the wrong direction. I was always in love with the defender but I feel I have just found it’s new replacement with the Ineos Grenadier I didn’t even know he had actually gone through with making it. If I could afford it I would buy one with the intention of it being the last truck I would ever buy. Awesome truck and an awesome reason for the concept of it being designed and made.
I dismissed this as a uber-rich man's arrogant folly...until today. Not only has this ticked every single box for a Tonka loving 53 year old boy, but your review has been as comprehensive and informative as ever. Peak LBS review. I want one.
Nor is the new Land Rover Defender. I don't understand the hang up about this. I don't care where it is built as long as it is build well. I drive a 2013 Land Rover Defender 110. Made with the finest British quality parts. 😉
@@raymondallo9947 I'm not bothered from a quality point of view, but the Defender was an iconic British car, and it provided jobs and export revenues for Britain. This could have been another. It may end up being an iconic French car now, but I don't care about that.
@@robertallardice8119 Well you voted for Brexit. I think you are mistaking Brexit with common business sense. Uh as your idiotic Nigel Farage told you you pay daily so much money to the EU and it should be spend on NHS. Maybe he could have spend all that money saved on subsidising Ineos and building a plant in the UK to keep your jobs there. I am sorry it is not job of Jim Ratcliffe to keep jobs in the UK. It is your government you voted for. And f Brexit was not there, they would have still build the Grenadier in France as it made more business sense buying a ready advanced manufacturing plant instead of having to build one from scratch in the UK. It was unfortunate that that plant became available. Plus I don't think that if even the British government would have stepped in with massive incentives to try to keep the production in the UK, it would still be build in France. From a heritage point of view it would have been great to have the car build in the UK.
Very interesting product and far more competent than expected. As longtime Land Rover buyers we are "done" for the moment after our last Discovery experience, moved to an XC90 instead, which is a much more cohesive vehicle and complete package. JLR need to get its act together because people like me are stepping away from the brand.
same. here ,new discovery is to much pavement wagon with 3 rows of leather seats , sunroof ,air suspension for smooth ride ,4 cy is standard it could be a great off roader with its 115" wb
Loved this review video. Thank you for it. I'll be test driving the Grenadier here in the US in Florida this week. Very much looking forward to it. Currently drive a 300tdi D90 and an LR4HSE. Let's compare.... Thanks again.
Why? I dont get this car and it was very disappointing that Brexiter Radcliffe was going to build this Car in the UK in Swansea in fact and pulled the plug on it due to us leaving the EU and the huge increase in costs so then builds in the EU even though he voted to be out of it.
Radcliffe actually supported the common market (but not EU politics). His main reason for building in the EU is that Mercedes Benz offered him the ready built ex-Smart car factory complete with skilled workforce - bit of a no brainer if making a vehicle company from scratch with no previous experience. However, the UK government should have had the nous to get him the Honda Swindon plant instead.
Disappointing that production did not go to Wales but who in their right mind would invest and build a new factory and car in a country that has Mark Drakeford as it's "leader"?
The drive train has already built in its obsolescence, but I'm excited by the idea of a BEV version that is genuinely rugged, affordable and as analogue as possible.
In many parts of the world the marketshare occupied by electric cars are in the low single digits. Gasoline and diesel will be available for decades to come.
@@SweBeach2023 yep- if electric sticks, which seems likely after solid state batteries double the range over current lithium only, it'll be 50-100 years before there's a total, global transition (and still there will be gas/diesel for remote locations)
Dear Johnny, I really envy you for gettin' your hands on the Grenadier's steering wheel. And of course feel jealous for you in England that have such a traddition in building good off roaders, like this (even if this particular car is not actually been built in your country). Thanks for this video. Loved every moment of it.-
Best review yet!!! I am a USA reservation holder and smitten with the Grenadier. I love the back to basics and minimal computer philosophy. I will be ordering the base version in Mushroom with cloth seats. The Grenadier is a better value than a loaded Jeep Wrangler.
The raised bonnet reminds me of a local gamekeeper where I come from. He inadvertently shot a 303 round through the bonnet of the estate's Defender 90 when he was at the range.
Just bought a hilux, I think I’ll see how this holds up reliability wise but, so long as it does what it says, based on this review, I’m in. I love utility over looks, well done sir Jim.
This is what I hope to replace my VW Amarok with in 2 or 3 years time, truth be told I wish it had been around when I’d bought the Amarok. We’re farmers, and carry out the overwhelming majority of our own servicing and repairs. What we need is an uncomplicated lugger to haul men to and from job sites, and pull heavy livestock trailers/plant trailers. So the Grenadier speaks to us on many levels. Thought you’re review was absolutely fab, particularly interesting to hear about it’s on road characteristics, a very cool car, showing the Landrovers and higher end pickup manufacturers what their target market actually wants and needs in a car.
The cost to value ratio of this is insane. There is so much value in this car when compared to other vehicles like the land rover or even the Mercedes g wagon.
This car must have a wonderful ride. Its got both the long travel suspension of the last Defender together with the tall progressive bump stops I have expirienced on the last Mercedes G Wagon. Love it.
Refreshing that its designed to be kept and not instantly replaced by the next shiny toy. I daily drive a 23 year old MX5, love it, look after it and happy to keep it forever
I’ve had mine 3 weeks and can report that the steering becomes second nature very quickly. I’m 6’4” (194cm) and the ergonomics are perfect for me, footwell intrusion on RHD car is no issue. Turning circle, yeah it’s big but, again, you get used to it and if you’ve ever spent much time driving a van it’s absolutely fine. I love it, car for life.
It really is an issue. The driver ergonomics are poor for a NEW vehicle. I sat in one about two months ago, here in Australia. I had one on Order but glad I cancelled because the driving position was so uncomfortable for me and would be even more so on long trips - simply cannot move your left leg as it is jacked up and wedged between the steering wheel and centre console and your right leg is thrust out and down to reach the accelerator. Shame because lots of other things I liked (maybe a tank bigger than 90l as well).
@@johncanalese588 yes I know, not easy but there might be something they can do as it will crucify sales otherwise.. had a jeep a few years ago and the footwell on the driver's side was all off centre to do with it being a RHD vehicle and it ruined it for me.
I’ve had a good look at one of these. It’s really good in a chunky well made commercial vehicle type way. Lots of design elements from different things. The cockpit has a aircraft helicopter military feel in a good way. Lot’s of different brands all over the place but they are brands that know their stuff. Looks less like a Defender in the flesh than in pictures. A 4x4 to be used as a 4x4 rather than a fashion 4x4. Hopefully they will sell well and the military and emergency services will love them. Land Rover has definitely gone fashion over function while this is heavy duty function first and built to last.
Really interesting video. I've been following this project since day one. I've had a series 3, Ex-Mod 90, 2x Defenders 110s (200 and 300tdi) and a Freelander 1. Then a Shogun which took me off a cliff (ok, I was driving). It's really interesting to see this journey. After stopping making the Defenders. All the best bits of a LR with that mix of old and new as you said.
Ratcliffe's enormous wealth has been built on a combination of aggressive lobbying, high risk investments, highly polluting industries, tax dodging and union-busting. INEOS, the chemicals company Ratcliffe owns and controls, has been criticised for causing air and water pollution, dangerous leaks, fires and explosions, as well as creating vast amounts of plastic waste and carbon emissions. It is notorious for its aggressive stance against unions and workers rights and for lobbying against environmental regulations. It has been leading the charge to open the UK to fracking, though that has currently been stalled by nation-wide campaigns and determined local opposition. And how much tax does he pay in this country? But go on, buy his car.
Imagine the mentality of someone who has £10 billion and yet still decides to cause massive amounts of pollution just to make more money that he can't possibly spend. Consumed by his own ego.
I'd like to see a SWB 3 door of this since it ticks the boxes of my Tdi Defender just a little more comfortable 👍 Never would replace my Defender since I like it too much but truly this is what JLR should have made.
Whatever people think of it you can't help thinking that if it had a Land Rover badge people would be absolutely losing their minds over it. I wish it was made in Wales as planned but I still find myself liking it quite a bit. Reckon I could spend £70k far better restomodding a 60 or 70 series Land Cruiser though...
I had a client around 8 years ago that lived a bit out in the stix, they had 2 identical Landrover Disco’s because it was the only way the could guarantee they had a working car when they needed… Jim Ratcliffe saw the reaction people had when they discontinued the Defender and filled a gap in the market with what looks to actually be a better car that clearly still has the fundamentals of what core Defender owners want… If I could afford one I would absolutely buy one
This car was supposed to be built where I live providing thousands of jobs both directly and indirectly for this area. Welsh government provided available land and funding. Brexiteer Ratcliffe then decided to pull the plug and take the production to France, I know it sounds bitter but I hope this project fails and costs him a lot of money. Probably the realisation that Brexit was going to be a nightmare for import/export.
Hey Jonny, I have one on order to replace a Hilux, time will tell, a little concerned about driver comfort but still excited to try something different, hopefully it will arrive around Easter. Keep up the good work 👍
Belstaff Jackets and keeping the old landrover utilitarianism alive, I want to meet this Sir Jim Radcliffe chap for a beer! I bet he has a workshop full of old oily motorcycles too, what a bloke!
I am a new defender owner and to be honest, i quite like what Grenadier is offering. Especially on those designs for easier modification. The new defender is quite a package and it is quite hard to modify/upgrade without spending a fortune.
Love the solid looking interior, with real buttons. Land Rover missed a trick by not updating their classic. Hope farmers, the coastguard, police, fire service etc snap these up and use them for their intended purpose and not just parking on double yellows outside an artisan coffee shop.
You're spot on about JLR products about their reliability issues and "rushed into the marketplace" approach. Landcruisers and these are the thinking mans all-rounder.
Fromthe what I've seen the New Defender has been very reliable. There have been some Glitches, namely TFL, but generally it's getting a good name for itself!!
@@markwalton8644 That's good to hear, but as a cattle and sheep farmer, I see the new Defender as a fashion accessory, it's too expensive for what they expect it to do. And where I am (rural West of Ireland), too high strung; no local mechanic would touch it and the nearest dealer is 2 hours away. Furthermore, the rear door is too narrow for throwing a square bale/bags of meal in. I'd be constantly worried about it. For all the above reasons, Landcruisers & Hilux are all you see around here. They'll happily pull a tri-axle cattle trailer all day, they'll do the rough and tumble farming jobs, they're cheap and very easy to maintain and they're not hard kept in diesel. I'll be interested to see what their dealer network will be like.
@@dbasq1 100%!! For me an off roader would be a fun thing and would probably just get a Cheap Discovery 2 and a Daily. But as a Tool the Grenadier would be a much better than the New Defender! If your New Defender Airbag shock fails its 2.5k to replace it! So I Certainly see the Grenadiers place as a Tough Utilitarian tool but it's not exactly a whole lot cheaper than the New Defender. In fact pricing wise it's very similar, which for me as it's so basic I would prefer a New Defender because i believe it covers the On Road and off road duties for big trips really well as long it's reliable, which i believe it is!!
@@markwalton8644 A 5-10 year old Landcruiser Amazon could be a viable alternative. It's hard as nails and quite plush. Only downside is it requires planning permission to park it
Excellent episode, I am currently on the fence of actually purchasing one. It ticks a lot of the boxes for me but also has some boxes that it doesn’t tick for me. One of the excellent points you noted in the video was a Heads Up Display, which I think would have been amazing to have. My 02 major concern; • The resale value down the line. • Accessories availability like lift kits, as I would like to have it sit at least 2” higher.
Properly good workhorse of a 4x4. Spot with the engine choices using the established BMW and ZF combination and definitely brings that rugged toughy use to people that need it in thier daily lives.
At last.... been waiting about 3 years for jonny to get his hands on one
Thanks Rob. Jonny has too! It is one of those cars which instantly creates debate and divide. There's a few things he isn't happy about, but it isn't the looks particularly. I mean, the modern Land Cruiser is an expedition legend but no looker. The new Defender? Jonny reckons it is dating quickly, and still doesn't trust JLR's reliability record, which is a big problem when you are selling a rugged adventure vehicle.
Ratcliffe lives in Monaco where he can pay no tax, so he is not Britain's wealthiest man.
In March 2019, INEOS said it would close its Middlesbrough manufacturing plant unless it is allowed to 'defer compliance' with rules designed to prevent air and water pollution.
Don't give him another penny.
Ratcliffe's enormous wealth has been built on a combination of aggressive lobbying, high risk investments, highly polluting industries, tax dodging and union-busting.
INEOS, the chemicals company Ratcliffe owns and controls, has been criticised for causing air and water pollution, dangerous leaks, fires and explosions, as well as creating vast amounts of plastic waste and carbon emissions. It is notorious for its aggressive stance against unions and workers rights and for lobbying against environmental regulations.
It has been leading the charge to open the UK to fracking, though that has currently been stalled by nation-wide campaigns and determined local opposition.
@@TheLateBrakeShow 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼🚘
Hello. It's aimed at owning it for 12 years plus... Does that mean I can get finance to buy it over 12 years.!?
Important note for those that would actually buy - Ineos are making easily available workshop manuals and spare parts ordering direct to customer. You don't have to go through some BS manufacturer only dealership to get your vehicle serviced. Basically showing every other manufacturer how Right-to-repair should be done.
How about diagnostic tools?
@@PJ-om2wq not sure TBH. When asked (speaking to the head mechanical guy doing their Australian prototype tour) about diag readers and if my local non-Ineos mechanic would be about to diagnose faults, he said that it would all be accessible by standard OBD2 style readers. I'm not that well educated on different types of OBD2 readers, so not sure what that means software wise, how many versions of OBD2 there are with can-bus etc, or how current the software has to be. But it was apparent that you wouldn't need a special Ineos branded tool. Their attitude (on the tour) was that there should be very little such resistance - from Ineos - to getting mechanical issues resolved (and you back on the road asap) - not sure if this attitude is replicated world wide.
Glad to hear that. The only concern for me, at least here in the US, is that they have no repair shops (no one even knows what Ineos is here). So either we just aren't the target market or there will be a serious problem when it comes to major repairs and you've got nowhere to take it. Also, the BMW B57/B58 has had some issues with significant oil consumption and cylinder scoring. For this application I really wish they went with something more reliable than a BMW product under the hood (and preferably naturally aspirated).
So basically they don't have a dealership network so expect you to fix it yourself :)
@@sugerbear586 yeah, exactly... any one of us chimps can do oil changes and brakes, some basic suspension without having a lift... but it's the engine specifically that worries me. The ZF trans is probably fine- they've got a good track record.
Am an overlanding enthusiast in US (California); test drove this car yesterday... best car I've ever driven: e v e r. I squealed with glee when I saw it for the first time, and I squealed again when I was handed over the key, and the key actually functioned as a key!! Let me pause there for a moment: a key where I don't have to worry about batteries, and messages from the computer telling me that the key power is low and so-on and so-forth. The engine had a beautiful sound, and I understand it's an excellent engine, as it's the same one in a BMW we have. The way it drove on the motorway, and on the less speedy roads brought a smile to my face. The way I sat in the driver's seat... even at 5' (yes, I'm short), I felt in total command of everything around me; perfect visual of road and side views... the seat was comfortable, the steering wheel, perfect. It was perfection. We have a Jeep that we overland in, and I've test driven Defenders in the past; have seen the new Lexus and the new Land Cruiser... this ECLIPSES all of these by a long shot in my view. We've also had a G Wagon in the past, an older one... what a hunk of junk. Anyway, I cannot say enough good things about this car... simply cannot. In fact, I should be out selling them. LOL. This is my absolute dream car.
My uncle Arthur Goddard was the man who engineered the series one land rover after the Second World War said to me that when he heard that they were discontinuing the Defender that they could have engineered their way out of the problems facing them with new safety requirements and such,and when he saw the development of the Grenadier said to me there you are told you it could be done so he endorsed it, sadly he died in Australia at 102 years old ill miss him he was great fun to be with.
A lovechild between a Gelände Wagen and a Defender. I drove the Gelände Wagen in the Danish army many years ago. This car looks superb to me. I think Land Rover has forgotten their roots.
They have, for the need of profit.
Not only Land Rover who has forgotten it's roots , but Britain itself has forgotten it's roots.
Ineos has also forgotten what LandRover was: a cheap workhorse. The Grenadier ist WAY too expensive to be a workhorse, and to be a substitute for the original LandRover. Don't forget: LandRover was never really good, but it was cheap to buy and cheap to maintain. I remember a LandRover that fell on it's side: they got it back on his tyres by using their own winch and some trees and continued driving. Only the mirror was broken.
@@flexiblebirdchannel Way to expensive in Australia.For the same money,or cheaper, we have the Land Cruiser models,70 series and LC300 models.Proven reliability,the best resale in the business,more aftermarket accessories than probably any other vehicle around,dealers in every corner of the country(around 300),and numerous models to choose from.Huge competition for Grenadia.
New Defender Owner here. The Ineos looks fantastic. It certainly ticks all the emotional boy boxes with the helicopter vibe and giant switches. I like the flexibility of being able to add on. It really does look well thought out and designed for the intended purpose. It’s a very appealing package.
But it’s also a new vehicle from a new vehicle company. As a result it’s impossible to make any claims on ruggardness or reliability, yet. It could be incredible of subject to a full recall. We’ll know in a couple of years. So it’s a little unfair for commenters to make claims against the new Defender, for now. Also I don’t think I could live with the drive position. I do big kilometers in my Defender and it’s sensational for eating up the miles on or off road. My 2 year old 110 has just topped 36000 kms with 20K on dirt and musc of that with a camper strapped to the back. It’s been brilliant. Flawless. I like the Ineos but here in Oz it looks like it’ll cost more than the Defender (as does the 300 series Land Crusier here) but with slightly less comfort for long days in the car. I agree the new Defender is what the Discovery should have been and I came from a Disco 4. But the Defender is better on road and off road than the Discovery or the old Defender. Yep it’s posh. But it’s also incredibly capable.
I’ve not driven an Ineos, like most of the Defender haters here haven’t driven a new Defender, but I hope the Ineos does really well and is the vehicle people hope it is. I’m not trading my Defender for one though. I already have the vehicle that’s right for me.
Nice comment
I'm just at a loss as to why they both are missing a split tail gate. Add the LC 300 to that list actually
Bmw engine and ZF transmission. Known factors
@@jeffk464 there more to a car than the engine and gearbox they could be electrical nightmares or just have general poor build quality
@Benj6i On my third Landrover. 50% use off tarmac and towing a camper. None have failed me yet.
Capable yes, incredibly capable absolutely not, for the simple reason that it's not a Defender, it's a Disco 6 at best. Which means, it's not rough and tumble like the Defender or now the Grenadier. Also, If the gren is new, so is the Dico 6, and it's a pathetic wet dream of some young yuppie designers without a clue to the outdoors except for a briefing now and again. So from all the equivalent tests and trials of the Disco 6 and the Gren, the latter is far far more capable and practical. Don't get me wrong, I'm a die hard Landy fan, I have a proper Land Rover, a Series III.
Now, what we need is the INEOS Challenge, where teams do some SERIOUS off-road just like the Camel Trophy did. It must be done!
Yeah im sure Greta and the sticky handed, tomato soup throwers will be all over that suggestion.
There is something like that set up in Australia. i think it's a Landcruiser challenge though. A few of the early reviewers of the Grenadier have mentioned it. There are a coupel of UA-cam vids about it.
@@danielearley5062 any chance of gatecrashing the cruiser challenge?
Guest appearance?
This vehicle would destroy any other vehicle as it was made for purpose. I am closely watching as this was once considered near impossible to do. To create a ground up vehicle from a small company was believed to be a quality assurance nightmare. I want one but in the Netherlands I suspect this vehicle would be a non starter after it is hit with all the fines/penalties.
@@chrispnw2547 Chris: problems arise to be solved
or
where there is a will, there´s a way
Jonny never commented before but I just have to say you are such a class act, you can tell you work really hard to produce these videos, you’re a wealth of knowledge whilst delivering so much useful information without ever being boring I hope you realise we all really appreciate the graft you put in 👏🏻
David, thank you so much for the comment. It means a lot.
Can I shout out the beautiful winter field for making it look good?
and so say all of us, and so say all of us
Brilliant, Jonny love it mate.
Great review. Respect with calling out LRs arrogance with regards to product reliability. Most reviewers don’t have the stones. From the look of it Steyr and Ineos have put a lot of effort into the reliability of this even by delaying its launch. I think this will be a big success here and abroad.
Scott, appreciate the comment. Glad you noticed Jonny calling out JLR after so many years of lurking around the bottom of reliability surveys. You cannot market a go-anywhere 4WD if it fundamentally isn't properly developed before retail.
@@TheLateBrakeShow What's the old aussie saying? Drive a landrover if you want to go into the outback, drive a land cruiser if you want to come back out? :p
Another old Aussie says “Landrover - turning drivers into mechanics for 70 years” 🤣
@@logicalChimp ...and drive a Nissan if you want to use the car again. 🙂
He didn't point out the stupid decisions Ineos made for the RHD version though.
Either he isn't thorough enough or doesn't want to offend Ineos.
Great review, totally objective and very nicely produced! I love the Grenadier, watching your review, I kept finding myself saying "that's quite clever" when you pointed out various features, and it struck me, there aren't many cars these days that you really describe as "clever" - this is one of them. I love Ineos' single minded approach to the Grenadier, I hope it is enough of a success that they can make them in reasonable numbers and become a mainstream manufacturer over time.
Excellent review. Ineos looks like they took a hellish risk, and nailed it. I think the new Defender looks cool, but it's a technology over loaded intergalactic space ship. The Ieous is 85% work tool, 15% fashion accessory.
I run a 130 tipper in my job as a tree surgeon. I've had another previous to this and an old 200tdi engined 90 before that. I take my hat off to Jim Ratcliffe for bringing this to market. You hit the nail on the head Jonny with describing how Land Rover itself lost its way but its all down to the market. I certainly wouldn't be able to afford one of these new whereas the Nouveau Riche will....and then discard it once the novelty wears off. Still an excellent engineering feat and hopefully it sells well.🙏
If you find yourself looking for a long wheelbase flatbed, look up ibex.
@@the_lost_navigator7266 yes I've seen Ibex before 👍
Anyone buying one is a traitor, ineos sold out Britain.
JLR haven’t lost their way. They made a conscious decision to go upmarket. The jury is still out on whether they have made the right decision long term. Short term, given that dealers are offering customers a profit on their 6mth old Defenders, it’s working for them.
@@hughmarcus1 There's room in the market for both this and the new defender I feel. The defender is a great vehicle and I think it was the right car to replace the defender with decent sales volume. My friend who owns one is more than just happy with it. The Ineos will appeal to less people I feel and had Land Rover produced it, I think they'd come in for some stick for not embracing new technology. But I personally would like to own one and that's the rub. There's not a right or wrong answer to car buying. Just choice and personal preference.
i drive a big wheeled & lifted 300 Tdi 110 defender as my daily, its cold, damp, icy inside , slow ,noisy and i love it , it is what it is , it's honest, it doesn't pretend to be what it isn't,
i saw those traits in the Ineos Grenadier when the idea was first mooted, i like what i see, i hope they do well, as you say built in obsolescence is an accepted "thing" and it shouldnt' be,
i hope this goes on to change the current thinking of most of today's manufacturers who think its ok to dip their hands in your pocket every 3-5 years to sell you a new car in case you old (new) one needs an MOT or its ridiculously overcomplicated tech package becomes troublesome or out of vogue.. this IS the way forward we need more people like Sir James and less Elon Musk's in my opinion.
Against a lot of advice to the contrary, a good friend of mine bought a Defender here in Australia when they first came out. 48,000kms and 1 year later of relatively easy driving with some off-road and it required a full drivetrain replacement, including engine, gearbox, suspension. He had to wait around 8 months for it to be fixed and was told that he would only get 12 months warranty for the new bits - original warranty was 5 years.
LR have been a nightmare to deal with - zero updates, no offers to compensate, not returning calls etc. - and refuse to budge on warranty. Others here in Oz have had the same problem - several with far fewer kms - and now their replacement engines have failed. As it stands, my friend is not willing to take the car back until he gets some compensation for depreciation losses while the car was unavailable to him and a warranty on the replacement engine that shows the company will back their brand. If he took it back now, he would inherit a huge potential liability.
Meanwhile, I'm enjoying endless trouble-free on and off-roading, some quite rough in my '07 utilitarian Nissan and am planning to replace it with a Grenadier in the next 2 years. Landrover? Not on your life. Thanks for the great review.
JLR did get it right at one point. My Tdci 110 has been excellent. Owned it since new. It's had a clutch and the output shaft. Otherwise just a couple of little niggles. Paintwork wasn't the best even when new. But otherwise it's been great. Such a pity the current crop are bloated, ugly and unreliable.
When I heard the old Defender had a death-knell, I feared the worst and history has proved my fears. Then the "new" defender arrived those fears were confirmed- the whole thing was a total misconception, sorry to sound self-centered, but all of my friends with 90ies & Defenders felt the same. I could go on & on in the same line......stop it John.
The way the Grenadier and its primary conception as utility vehicle is certainly impressive; I´d have preferred to see the basic model without leather seats, carpets etc. and the price of one as I listen to my gut-feeling will be the runner.
Finally, with all the electrics & electronics, there is more to go wrong- the blinkers don´t work so the engine stops and you´re stuck in the middle of nowhere...call the breakdown service reach you when you´re stuck halfway up Ingelborough---------
time will tell.
Still a damned good idea, only wish I had the money to buy one, in the meantime I´ll carry on with my ´84 90 with over 600,000 on the clock!
That’s not how warranty works in Oz and your friend should know that. The original warranty will not only stand but we have an implied consumer protection on top of that. Plus some of the most robust lemon laws in the world. Including me, I know 5 new Defender owners and so far no issues in our group. And anyway, this has nothing to do with the Ineos, does it? It could be better, or worse…..
As an Australian Citizen why didn't he go 2 a Consumer Lawyer .
Consumer Laws in Australia 🇦🇺 are real Strict .
Land Drover are a Joke.
U pay massive $$$ 4 a top of the range Range Rover & potentially buying a Lemon 🍋 as there break downs & repair costs are outrageous . There's a Chap up just outside Kilmore Victoria who Land Rover / Range Rover send there problem child's 2 to get fixed .
Over priced Rubbish 🗑 😅
I love that you’ve gone from mainstream telly.
To having your own success in your own right.
Note book in hand.
I’d watch you all day, Johnny.
Thanks mate.
Thanks for making it work and giving us a “go to” car man.
I know it works for you. This video is testament to that. That you get the cars to test.
But we also need to hear what Johnny thinks.
So I’m glad you’ve made it work out.
Great review, and a very cool car. The one thing I would say is that as someone who would use it for work I’d still get leather. Much easier to clean, and generally more comfortable. Doesn’t seem brutally expensive in this day and age tbh
As a company we looked at so many options for 4x4s that can tow 3500kg. This vehicle will be abused and worked as a commercial vehicle by us. I don’t think there is anything else on the market that provides 5 seats, that looks comfortable, versatile, has a large roof rack capability and so many options for power take off. Can’t wait to get it and using it as a tool.
I was reading online that this doesn't qualify as a commercial vehicle in the UK as it's payload is too low? Is there truth to that? You'd want to know before ordering!
@@MD-uu5nt If you can get a Peugeot 206 commercial i'm sure something of this size will qualify.
As far as i know to qualify as a commercial the vehicle has to have it's rear seats and seat belts removed to ensure it can't carry passengers. Some blanking of the rear windows might be required too.
My Discovery 2 commercial had rear seats and seat belts plus anchor points removed as well as blanked off rear door windows and window motors so they won't open.
@@MD-uu5nt there's a Jimny commercial...
What options does it have for power take off? I couldn't find information about that.
@@JD2PENGUIN2 I'm assuming electrical power rather than being able to run a muck spreader
Been a life long Landy fan and still am. But have to agree Johnny they have lost their way with the off road market. See very few farmers with new style Defenders.
The Grenadier is certainly the offspring of the mating of a Land Rover and G Wagon.
Absolutely love it Andre's another great video. 👍
You nailed it in every department!! From the owner of an original 110 Defender (albeit a heavily modified JLR V8 one) LR Missed a trick.... big time!! One of the best car reviews I've ever had the pleasure of watching! Full stop
Old Defender sold in tiny numbers in Europe annually (
So glad you mentioned the issue of the left foot. I found it so uncomfortable and painful to drive, it stopped me ordering one. Which was a shame as I waited 3 years to test drive one and its useless for me.
would the same issue exist on a left hand drive version?
Same here. I had difficulty staying comfortable in my previous Defender during a central Australian tour and day of driving. I don't want to risk discovering my left leg is going numb after a few hours behind the wheel.
This is everything the new Defender should have become. I love the refreshing no nonsense well thought out, basic approach and thought given towards obsolescence. Excellent review chap!
£70k basic approach in the vehicle in the video
Lets be clear, if JLR had made the new defender like this, they would not exist today!
@@Bobblenob yes, not basic enough for my wallet unfortunately.
@@maxtorque2277 I don't know, they have a lot of other volume products on sale. Can't really see the new Defender being sold to military etc etc, which must account for something. Think they've just sold out.
@@Bobblenob I bet more will be spotted in towns and cities than on farms. Much too expensive for a launch and every review I have seen criticises the old recirculating ball steering.
Great review, super detailed. I love that Jonny loves all types of cars, no bias. None of this, “oh the steering isn’t like a sports car”, nearly all 4x4 reviews say this, it just sounds daft. You have to review it for what it is.
Exactly man. They would say an offroader has terrible steering or stability but never say something like "Ferrari is terrible because it can't offroad" 😄
Very interested in this as a replacement for my Amarok. Love the idea that it's designed to last, hate throwaway culture. I think it's almost the perfect vehicle for me. It's what the original Defender always wished it could be.
What? Built abroad 😂
Hi from southern California, been waiting for the new Land Cruiser but now INEOS Granadier is taking my heart ...
It is in fact a true multifunctional 4WD. They’ve really hit the nail on the head with this one.
Ratcliffe lives in Monaco where he can pay no tax, so he is not Britain's wealthiest man.
In March 2019, INEOS said it would close its Middlesbrough manufacturing plant unless it is allowed to 'defer compliance' with rules designed to prevent air and water pollution.
Don't give him another penny.
Ratcliffe's enormous wealth has been built on a combination of aggressive lobbying, high risk investments, highly polluting industries, tax dodging and union-busting.
INEOS, the chemicals company Ratcliffe owns and controls, has been criticised for causing air and water pollution, dangerous leaks, fires and explosions, as well as creating vast amounts of plastic waste and carbon emissions. It is notorious for its aggressive stance against unions and workers rights and for lobbying against environmental regulations.
It has been leading the charge to open the UK to fracking, though that has currently been stalled by nation-wide campaigns and determined local opposition.
I bet he uses British RandD , steals our ideas and inventiveness and gives nothing back , he’s no better than Dyson
Hats off to the bazillionaire for getting the Grenadier to market - I really hope it lives upto expectations and fills a niche. . Shame no manual option but total accept why.
... wouldn't be surprised if one of the said speculative farmers was a certain Harry Metcalfe!
Ps. great review Jonny.
Brexiteer building car in France!
I like Metcalfe but he seems like a Land Rover sycophant. If I remember right he's also worked for JLR (something to do with SVO) so there's probably bias there. I don't remember any of the reviews of their models on his channel being anything but overwhelmingly positive. Maybe I'm wrong but that's the impression I've always got from his videos.
Great review Jonny, I put a reservation in for one and went on the prototype tour when their driver took us round a short track, off road, it was ok, but didn't grab me, I drove home in my Discovery3 and had a think about it. The problem I have is Landrover has gone too up-market, as you pointed out. There is a local Ineos dealer near me and has told me I can bring my caravan up and test drive with it hitched up, Landrover do not offer this, so I will do a proper tow test and .... Well done Jonny,
Got mine 4 weeks ago and its perfect… for me. Luv it!!
Test driving the Grenadier today 3/21/23 here in Tampa Florida USA - your review is one the first/best I've seen of a production unit. An honest look at the Grenadier on the road which has been lacking in most others reviews.....Thank You
A note on the rear doors/seats for INEOS to hopefully fix. It would work better if the 60/40 split aligned with the rear doors so you can poke long things out the back little door, without losing two seats.
Very good point. Wonder if that could be tweaked?
That rear door latch is asking to be knocked off, that is going to be an issue.
@HooD HangerZ Better to have both options though. It's just pure oversight, or someone realised after too much engineering had commenced to change it.
A common sense approach now that you mention it.
I do love the design of that centre console above the driver. Whole cab reminds me of a rugged airplane cockpit or something
Love it too!
The lead designer used to design yachts.
Away from the nice car: Why is Mr. Radcliffe so hyped?
He supported Brexit and promised a lot with the Grenadier. Jobs, industrial development etc. And what happened? He has his wealth 'safed' outside of Great Britain. The Grenadier was developed in Austria and is being built in France. Not a Penny goes into the British economy, no British employee finds work in the industrial sector. Like so many Brexiteers, he has promised many things and only thought of himself and his assets. Really great guy...
Disaster capitalist.
Absolutely true!!!
Having lived in the Middle East and Africa for a number of years and used JLR, Mitsubishi and Land Cruisers I absolutely agree with Jonny on JLR being fragile and not guaranteed to get you home. We have all experienced limp mode. Land Cruiser and Mitsubishi are way more reliable but the Ineos looks very interesting, I would definitely consider it and will watch reliability of the brand with interest.
Problem with the ineos is a small fuel tank 90-95 litres no room underneath for larger tank, also need to see what it is like lifted and on bigger tyres.
Great review Jonny, hats off to everyone involved on this project. I think the outcome is great, Sir Jim saw a missed opportunity by LR and has had the courage and conviction to get it off the ground.
A Brexiteer building it in France with European components!
Too many rules and regulations in Britain lol
@@columcreaven8860 There's less rules now that the UK left the EU.
Yes that is why made in the UK is no longer a selling point....
I would buy this vehicle in a heartbeat over an LR, it is what the Farming and commercial vehicle sector needs, especially the forthcoming hydrogen version (are they working in partnership with JCB I wonder ?) The looks will grow on us as time passes. My only concern is the auto box and it's reliability and cost of repair. Welldone Mr Radcliffe and of course Jonny.
The ZF is probably one of the most reliable gearboxes made and is exceptionally well proven, so I honestly don’t believe you need be concerned. My Ranger has the previous six speed version [built under license by Ford] and even these are fairly bomb-proof. Mine has done 80’000 miles now, much of it towing 3.5 tons on very demanding coast roads [going across and up and down valleys] and it has been fine. Changed its oil at 65,000 and that’s it.
Brilliant honest and open review. Hopefully Sir Jim will watch ( and look at comments) and take note of those internal driving comfort issues you mentioned - which would probably get annoying on a long journey. Otherwise, he has done what he set out to do and well done to him.
As one mostly SITS in a car this will likely be an enormous exercise in futility and an economic flop without solid ergonomics. All in spite of being otherwise very appealing in many ways.
Thanks for a great review of a production version of the Grenadier. I really hope that this project of passion stacks up for the many farmers, utility and outward bound companies and other businesses when they experience one & do the figures for viability of running these in their fleets.
Great video and really good Review, shame that Ineos kind of missed the point. The Grenadier was supposed to be an "old defender" replacement perfect for working and farming etc at a lower price point than the new defender, but what they have ended up making is a new defender rival with a base price of £70,000 which is no where near an affordable car and is £18k over the base price of a defender 90 Hardtop and £13k over the base 110 Hardtop....
Didn’t he say that the model in the video is top spec and priced at £70k and lower spec models start at £55k?
Even if it were true ( it's not) it'd be worth it. It's unlikely to be as shit as lr.
I agree with you - I wish someone (like these guys) would build a pickup truck with ALL of the utility features that matter, BUT with a Manual HI/LO diff lock 4x4 and absolutely zero electronic anything. ( OK maybe electronic fuel injection is probably necessary) but other than that I want a car that I could buy at a reasonable price and plan to keep.
I can’t go off-roading but somehow this makes me excited about it. What a fantastic machine. Not filled with screens, sensitive knobs and multifunction buttons. You press one big fat button and “clunk” it’s done. Hear those heavy doors close.
Before you all salivate too much. It does have a pile of tech & it’s got 35 electronic sensors for the engine + more for the gearbox.
How will that all stack up on the plains of Namibia? We shall see.
@@hughmarcus1 It won't obviously! I knew about the Grenadier and I'm certain it was meant to be EV. What happened there, I don't understand why this is an ICE. EV's are well suited to off-road, nobody is going to go on regular long road trips with this.
If this was EV it would appeal to more people and retain value better.
There is something very satisfying about a very simple, utility manual car. I like my 'modern' 2011 car but to be honest overall I prefer the simplicity of the Mk1 Caddy & Mk2 Golf I used to drive. Nobody needs heated seats, auto wipers, auto lights, auto this and that.
@@Jamessansome it was never meant to be an EV. The EV is coming in the future though. The Grenadier only has the core basic electronics to be able to pass regulations and some markets even has bad fuel filters to cope with those conditions. How an EV will be used in deep Africa where people usually carry fuel to travel a couple thousand miles is beyond me.
I can imagine these being very popular on estates and big shooting grounds and the like where they want the classic, rugged defender looks for transporting around their fancy clients but a bit better comfort!
Hit the nail on the head. Comes across as the well-sorted utilitarian off-roader that should have come from a certain manufacturer in the Midlands…
Absolutely, unfortunately that's a small market segment that landrover decided they didn't care about any more. Be interesting to see how this sells.
I really like the utilitarian nature of this vehicle. Its like a molle pack on wheels
It is the vehicle the market desperately needed!
@@lunamaria1048 but couldn't afford....
@@JamesWilliam70 I just seen the price yesterday, for Canada. It is just over $91k Canadian. Over $30k more than my 4Runner TRD Off Road lol.
This thing is absurd lol... Utility vehicles are supposed to be cheap😂
Thanks Jonny for a brilliant no bs review. I have ordered one and waiting delivery. I agree with the grudge analogy. I wonder what Jim would have developed if LR let him have the tooling and production rights. My view is LR were worried that he might improve the old Defender and out sell the vastly over complicated model they now offer.
It is slightly amusing though that the Ineos is meant to be the serious real world off roader but the Defender has better wading depth and approach angles. Plus it's different level on road. The Ineos needs to be bullet proof reliability wise I think, otherwise you have a Defender if you like it, or you have an L200 if you need to do serious off road work.
@@XJRSuper a l200 away ye go burst engines and rotten chassis fit for scrap
All Grenadier needs to do to this outstanding vehicle is to get its belly off the ground!
What a superb review Jonny. Having watched other Grenadier reviews this one stands head and shoulders over the others. Thank you 🙏
I think for the UK you hit the nail on the head with the Grenadier filling the gap left over by land rovers relentless drive into luxury cars. The fact we can't get the 79 series land cruiser over here in blighty means the Grenadier has a good shot at the market, however it has a lot to prove in Asia, the middle East, Africa and Australia. If it lives up to expectations then it really does have a good shout at being a hit. I think it has a better spec then 79 series, the engine providing it's reliable is a better fit over Toyota's V8 diesel(although it's bomb proof). I've always been baffled why toyota didn't fit the 3l diesel to the 79 series for sales in europe, I think they are missing a trick. Can't wait to start seeing these on UK roads in the flesh
its insanity that the J70-series is still in production and still the benchmark
It’s like we’re in a parallel universe where BMW didn’t tire of Rover, and kept refining the original Defender. Complete with one of their own engines under the bonnet.
This is like the off-road version of a modern MINI; keeping the ethos of the original, but developing it into a product that’s a better fit for today’s market. While I don’t really care for new MINIs (I think they’ve strayed too far from the Issigonis original), I think the Grenadier keeps enough of the essence of the Defender to be really appealing. It’s a big thumbs up from me.
🤣 Alex Moulton would not let a BMW Mini on to his grounds at The Hall. He thought it was an abomination that had none of the benefits of the Mini.
Excellent review as usual Jonny. I just can’t get on board with this car though. I can understand why some people are excited about it but I still think it’s a very niche proposition and simply can’t imagine them finding enough buyers to make it worthwhile. Also find it bizarre that it’s being praised for being quirky…if Land Rover had put this on sale they would have been crucified for it being a retro mish-mash.
AGREE, a great honest review , quirky is brave in todays ultra samey boring - must conform to the average , but i think people have become conditioned , groomed into conforming and become boring & soft and want heated this & that electric this that and have manbun's and wear sliders thinking they are cool,
Each manufacturer used to have a brand identity that's long log gone, just look at the raft of nondescript SUV type vehicles available , all we have is a badge and general averageness , how often do you use the 8 electric seat motors? be honest we you really need 1/4 of the electrical junk a modern car has? that will go wrong in 8 years and cost £100+ VAT an hour at least an hour to fix? but its provided because of the yummy mummy focus groups they talk to , who cant be arsed to reach up to close a tailgate and would rather push a button , the world has got lazy and everyone is paying the price in the dumbed down world where your looked down on if your car is more than 3 years old... i think this car is a breath of fresh air in the stench of consumerism.
👍
Well it wasn't made for you just like tesla isn't made for everyone. It's made for offroaders and people who tour in the outback. It will sell to those.
@@matthewjames4268 absolutely agree but is there enough of them to sustain it as a business proposition?
Toyota are still selling large quantities of 79 series land cruisers, they are neither cheap or new, mine was made in 1988, not sure what year they came out.
There is a solid long term market for this kind of 4x4 and very little competition. I think it will find its market and do well.
I love it, can't afford it but still love it. The principle of a car lasting far longer is why I bought a Subaru. Time will tell but well over 100k and it runs like new. I also like honesty. No emission scandal with Subaru, they told the truth from Day 1. Great car, great review, thank you.
I think you made some good points. As a defender Land Rover guy for about 40 years, I still have a Defender 90, I am waiting for the pickup to come out at the end of this year.
The "richest man in britain" is a Monaco resident. Was also Brexiter but is building his car in France.
Absolutely!!!
Harry has to get one of these for the farm hack and test it just like he did with the new defender!
A well put together replacement for a lookalike, everything thought out and in its place, the over crowded switch and button layout would probably take some getting used too, however for lots of off road use, imho a cage protection cover is required for those rear lights.
I too have been following this car since its inception. Having worked with Ineos for over 15 years, I knew that if they put their mind to it they would produce a great car. I signed up for one as soon as I could and put in an order as soon as ordering was open. I look forward to getting my Ineos in the next couple of months. Like the farmers mentioned, I will have to be dragged kicking and screaming out of my 3.2l Ranger which I absolutely love both on and off road. I moved to the Ranger after 16 different Land Rover products ending up with an L405 Range Rover SDV8 that was in for warranty work 4 times in the 10 months and 16,000 miles I owned it, one of which was for a new gearbox. When I got it serviced and they charged me £1,100 for supplying and fitting new front brake pads (not discs), the car was sold within 24 hours and the love affair with my Ranger started.
While I have a new Grenadier on order, the Ranger is a fine commercial vehicle. The very latest model [which I don’t have] with the twin turbo 2.0 diesel and ten speed automatic is awesome and even rides comfortably. It’s not my choice for a long distance car though. I will not be exchanging the Ranger for the Grenadier, both of which will be good as I enter old age. That age progression will be my limiting factor and there will come a point where these vehicles will become superfluous to my needs, no doubt.
I also think Landrover went over the edges and going to fancy. I'm a big fan of the Series Landrovers for work, offroading and also traveling. Yes, not much comfort, but they got me everywhere and back. I would choose to go even more basic and cheaper with the grenadier if i could wish for it.
Just what the old Defender should’ve morphed into. Not the ultra chic Chelsea tractor
Range Rover already covers that base.
Grenadier Deserves to do well.
Good Review 👍🏻
Sold out Britain, anyone buying one is a traitor
Imagine if the Defender had evolved over the years like the Wrangler instead of staying stuck in 1983 and then suddenly getting replaced by a Discovery LR4 renamed as the Defender.
Lovely thing this is. Way better than a new Land Rover and it just drips character from every corner of its boxy appearance. Also a good car for Doug to review, because there are many quirks and features
Presumably you have extensive hands on experience of both vehicles to make that statement?
Keeping a vehicle long term makes economic sense.
Bought my Defender 300tdi in '96 for £16,000 and she's still going strong.
i bought a new td5 in 2002 sold it 4 years ago at 17 years with 190,000 miles on clock all hard rough work on farm with lot of heavy towing ,most reliable one i have had but chassis was getting very rusty cant remember what i paid ,think i added £9000 ontop of a 7 year old trade in defender currently run a 10 year old swb Shogun warrior which to be honest i love
This was a really good review and tbh I agreed with the fact landrover has gone in the wrong direction. I was always in love with the defender but I feel I have just found it’s new replacement with the Ineos Grenadier I didn’t even know he had actually gone through with making it. If I could afford it I would buy one with the intention of it being the last truck I would ever buy. Awesome truck and an awesome reason for the concept of it being designed and made.
I dismissed this as a uber-rich man's arrogant folly...until today. Not only has this ticked every single box for a Tonka loving 53 year old boy, but your review has been as comprehensive and informative as ever. Peak LBS review. I want one.
Looks wicked, such a shame it's not made in the UK.
Yep. The Brexiteer decided to build in France, SMH.
Nor is the new Land Rover Defender. I don't understand the hang up about this. I don't care where it is built as long as it is build well. I drive a 2013 Land Rover Defender 110. Made with the finest British quality parts. 😉
@@raymondallo9947 I'm not bothered from a quality point of view, but the Defender was an iconic British car, and it provided jobs and export revenues for Britain. This could have been another. It may end up being an iconic French car now, but I don't care about that.
@@raymondallo9947 You don’t care about jobs for people in the U.K! I thought this what Brexit was about!
@@robertallardice8119 Well you voted for Brexit. I think you are mistaking Brexit with common business sense. Uh as your idiotic Nigel Farage told you you pay daily so much money to the EU and it should be spend on NHS. Maybe he could have spend all that money saved on subsidising Ineos and building a plant in the UK to keep your jobs there. I am sorry it is not job of Jim Ratcliffe to keep jobs in the UK. It is your government you voted for. And f Brexit was not there, they would have still build the Grenadier in France as it made more business sense buying a ready advanced manufacturing plant instead of having to build one from scratch in the UK. It was unfortunate that that plant became available. Plus I don't think that if even the British government would have stepped in with massive incentives to try to keep the production in the UK, it would still be build in France. From a heritage point of view it would have been great to have the car build in the UK.
That's a smashing EUROPEAN UNION car very reminiscent of the old Santana PS 10 .
Very interesting product and far more competent than expected. As longtime Land Rover buyers we are "done" for the moment after our last Discovery experience, moved to an XC90 instead, which is a much more cohesive vehicle and complete package. JLR need to get its act together because people like me are stepping away from the brand.
same. here ,new discovery is to much pavement wagon with 3 rows of leather seats , sunroof ,air suspension for smooth ride ,4 cy is standard it could be a great off roader with its 115" wb
I bought my Series III brand new in '72 and I'm still driving it! I would definitely buy a Grenadier before a new Defender!
Loved this review video. Thank you for it. I'll be test driving the Grenadier here in the US in Florida this week.
Very much looking forward to it. Currently drive a 300tdi D90 and an LR4HSE. Let's compare....
Thanks again.
In Tampa today for the test drive too
Why? I dont get this car and it was very disappointing that Brexiter Radcliffe was going to build this Car in the UK in Swansea in fact and pulled the plug on it due to us leaving the EU and the huge increase in costs so then builds in the EU even though he voted to be out of it.
Radcliffe actually supported the common market (but not EU politics). His main reason for building in the EU is that Mercedes Benz offered him the ready built ex-Smart car factory complete with skilled workforce - bit of a no brainer if making a vehicle company from scratch with no previous experience. However, the UK government should have had the nous to get him the Honda Swindon plant instead.
Disappointing that production did not go to Wales but who in their right mind would invest and build a new factory and car in a country that has Mark Drakeford as it's "leader"?
👍👍👍👍
just a shame its not built in the UK, owned a RR sport for the last 7 years done 150 K KM love it
and Jim Ratcliffe a brexit supporter.
@@radleyg9486 Shows what part of Brexit he wanted , lower standards , not what was best for sovereignty and rebuilding our country
The drive train has already built in its obsolescence, but I'm excited by the idea of a BEV version that is genuinely rugged, affordable and as analogue as possible.
It's literally built by a petrochemical company so....
would have been better off not using a BMW engine and going naturally aspirated
In many parts of the world the marketshare occupied by electric cars are in the low single digits. Gasoline and diesel will be available for decades to come.
@@SweBeach2023 yep- if electric sticks, which seems likely after solid state batteries double the range over current lithium only, it'll be 50-100 years before there's a total, global transition (and still there will be gas/diesel for remote locations)
@@sly9263 why? on balance what arguments do you have against turbos that are borne out by any current engine?
Dear Johnny, I really envy you for gettin' your hands on the Grenadier's steering wheel. And of course feel jealous for you in England that have such a traddition in building good off roaders, like this (even if this particular car is not actually been built in your country). Thanks for this video. Loved every moment of it.-
Best review yet!!! I am a USA reservation holder and smitten with the Grenadier. I love the back to basics and minimal computer philosophy.
I will be ordering the base version in Mushroom with cloth seats. The Grenadier is a better value than a loaded Jeep Wrangler.
The raised bonnet reminds me of a local gamekeeper where I come from. He inadvertently shot a 303 round through the bonnet of the estate's Defender 90 when he was at the range.
Really great video, but the Ineos Hypocrite is not for me.
Brexiteer deserted Wales!!
Just bought a hilux, I think I’ll see how this holds up reliability wise but, so long as it does what it says, based on this review, I’m in. I love utility over looks, well done sir Jim.
This is what I hope to replace my VW Amarok with in 2 or 3 years time, truth be told I wish it had been around when I’d bought the Amarok. We’re farmers, and carry out the overwhelming majority of our own servicing and repairs. What we need is an uncomplicated lugger to haul men to and from job sites, and pull heavy livestock trailers/plant trailers. So the Grenadier speaks to us on many levels. Thought you’re review was absolutely fab, particularly interesting to hear about it’s on road characteristics, a very cool car, showing the Landrovers and higher end pickup manufacturers what their target market actually wants and needs in a car.
Would love to see a fleet of grenadiers doing something similar to the camel trophy, or even restarting the actual camel trophy.
The cost to value ratio of this is insane. There is so much value in this car when compared to other vehicles like the land rover or even the Mercedes g wagon.
I think it looks superb. What the Defender should have evolved into. I do hope it's a success.
This car must have a wonderful ride. Its got both the long travel suspension of the last Defender together with the tall progressive bump stops I have expirienced on the last Mercedes G Wagon. Love it.
Refreshing that its designed to be kept and not instantly replaced by the next shiny toy. I daily drive a 23 year old MX5, love it, look after it and happy to keep it forever
I’ve had mine 3 weeks and can report that the steering becomes second nature very quickly. I’m 6’4” (194cm) and the ergonomics are perfect for me, footwell intrusion on RHD car is no issue. Turning circle, yeah it’s big but, again, you get used to it and if you’ve ever spent much time driving a van it’s absolutely fine. I love it, car for life.
Shame about the left leg problem, that would be a huge issue for me...abit like the right elbow issue on the old Defender.
It really is an issue. The driver ergonomics are poor for a NEW vehicle. I sat in one about two months ago, here in Australia. I had one on Order but glad I cancelled because the driving position was so uncomfortable for me and would be even more so on long trips - simply cannot move your left leg as it is jacked up and wedged between the steering wheel and centre console and your right leg is thrust out and down to reach the accelerator. Shame because lots of other things I liked (maybe a tank bigger than 90l as well).
@@johncanalese588 very interesting info, such a shame and what an elementary mistake, hopefully they can issue a modification asap
@@sweetfreedomGB They can’t “fix it” because the intrusion into the cabin footwell is caused by needing to fit the DPF for the diesel engine.
@@johncanalese588 yes I know, not easy but there might be something they can do as it will crucify sales otherwise.. had a jeep a few years ago and the footwell on the driver's side was all off centre to do with it being a RHD vehicle and it ruined it for me.
I have little panic attacks these days every time Johnny drives into a puddle.. 😨
😬
He didn't hit that wading pool as aggressively as VBH did on 5th gear!
@@MartinStephenson1 I think they're referring to his Lada bath.
No Lada was harmed in this episode!
Flashback to sunk Lada lol
mandatory chaperone lol
I’ve had a good look at one of these. It’s really good in a chunky well made commercial vehicle type way. Lots of design elements from different things. The cockpit has a aircraft helicopter military feel in a good way. Lot’s of different brands all over the place but they are brands that know their stuff. Looks less like a Defender in the flesh than in pictures. A 4x4 to be used as a 4x4 rather than a fashion 4x4. Hopefully they will sell well and the military and emergency services will love them. Land Rover has definitely gone fashion over function while this is heavy duty function first and built to last.
Really interesting video. I've been following this project since day one. I've had a series 3, Ex-Mod 90, 2x Defenders 110s (200 and 300tdi) and a Freelander 1. Then a Shogun which took me off a cliff (ok, I was driving). It's really interesting to see this journey. After stopping making the Defenders. All the best bits of a LR with that mix of old and new as you said.
Never been off-road in my life, and I still want one! Well done Ineos!
Ratcliffe's enormous wealth has been built on a combination of aggressive lobbying, high risk investments, highly polluting industries, tax dodging and union-busting.
INEOS, the chemicals company Ratcliffe owns and controls, has been criticised for causing air and water pollution, dangerous leaks, fires and explosions, as well as creating vast amounts of plastic waste and carbon emissions. It is notorious for its aggressive stance against unions and workers rights and for lobbying against environmental regulations.
It has been leading the charge to open the UK to fracking, though that has currently been stalled by nation-wide campaigns and determined local opposition.
And how much tax does he pay in this country?
But go on, buy his car.
And he's an ardent brexiteer building his vehicle in... the EU.
@@michaelcope856 Yup, hypocrite and charlatan.
Imagine the mentality of someone who has £10 billion and yet still decides to cause massive amounts of pollution just to make more money that he can't possibly spend. Consumed by his own ego.
Spot on.
Well said.
I'd like to see a SWB 3 door of this since it ticks the boxes of my Tdi Defender just a little more comfortable 👍 Never would replace my Defender since I like it too much but truly this is what JLR should have made.
Whatever people think of it you can't help thinking that if it had a Land Rover badge people would be absolutely losing their minds over it.
I wish it was made in Wales as planned but I still find myself liking it quite a bit. Reckon I could spend £70k far better restomodding a 60 or 70 series Land Cruiser though...
I have ordered one... have also now driven a prototype and I was gobsmacked... two words "Bloody great!"....
I had a client around 8 years ago that lived a bit out in the stix, they had 2 identical Landrover Disco’s because it was the only way the could guarantee they had a working car when they needed… Jim Ratcliffe saw the reaction people had when they discontinued the Defender and filled a gap in the market with what looks to actually be a better car that clearly still has the fundamentals of what core Defender owners want…
If I could afford one I would absolutely buy one
I feel about these the same as I feel about Santana. Cool, but nah, I'd rather have a '90's Defender with a Tdi.
This car was supposed to be built where I live providing thousands of jobs both directly and indirectly for this area.
Welsh government provided available land and funding. Brexiteer Ratcliffe then decided to pull the plug and take the production to France, I know it sounds bitter but I hope this project fails and costs him a lot of money. Probably the realisation that Brexit was going to be a nightmare for import/export.
Hey Jonny, I have one on order to replace a Hilux, time will tell, a little concerned about driver comfort but still excited to try something different, hopefully it will arrive around Easter.
Keep up the good work 👍
Looks like the love child of a traditional Landy and a G Wagen. That’s no bad thing. Just needs to be a bit cheaper still.
Belstaff Jackets and keeping the old landrover utilitarianism alive, I want to meet this Sir Jim Radcliffe chap for a beer! I bet he has a workshop full of old oily motorcycles too, what a bloke!
I am a new defender owner and to be honest, i quite like what Grenadier is offering. Especially on those designs for easier modification. The new defender is quite a package and it is quite hard to modify/upgrade without spending a fortune.
Love the solid looking interior, with real buttons. Land Rover missed a trick by not updating their classic. Hope farmers, the coastguard, police, fire service etc snap these up and use them for their intended purpose and not just parking on double yellows outside an artisan coffee shop.
Too expensive to batter around a farm or building site.
You're spot on about JLR products about their reliability issues and "rushed into the marketplace" approach.
Landcruisers and these are the thinking mans all-rounder.
Fromthe what I've seen the New Defender has been very reliable. There have been some Glitches, namely TFL, but generally it's getting a good name for itself!!
@@markwalton8644 That's good to hear, but as a cattle and sheep farmer, I see the new Defender as a fashion accessory, it's too expensive for what they expect it to do.
And where I am (rural West of Ireland), too high strung; no local mechanic would touch it and the nearest dealer is 2 hours away.
Furthermore, the rear door is too narrow for throwing a square bale/bags of meal in.
I'd be constantly worried about it.
For all the above reasons, Landcruisers & Hilux are all you see around here.
They'll happily pull a tri-axle cattle trailer all day, they'll do the rough and tumble farming jobs, they're cheap and very easy to maintain and they're not hard kept in diesel.
I'll be interested to see what their dealer network will be like.
@@dbasq1 100%!! For me an off roader would be a fun thing and would probably just get a Cheap Discovery 2 and a Daily. But as a Tool the Grenadier would be a much better than the New Defender!
If your New Defender Airbag shock fails its 2.5k to replace it!
So I Certainly see the Grenadiers place as a Tough Utilitarian tool but it's not exactly a whole lot cheaper than the New Defender. In fact pricing wise it's very similar, which for me as it's so basic I would prefer a New Defender because i believe it covers the On Road and off road duties for big trips really well as long it's reliable, which i believe it is!!
@@markwalton8644 A 5-10 year old Landcruiser Amazon could be a viable alternative.
It's hard as nails and quite plush.
Only downside is it requires planning permission to park it
Excellent episode,
I am currently on the fence of actually purchasing one.
It ticks a lot of the boxes for me but also has some boxes that it doesn’t tick for me.
One of the excellent points you noted in the video was a Heads Up Display, which I think would have been amazing to have.
My 02 major concern;
• The resale value down the line.
• Accessories availability like lift kits, as I would like to have it sit at least 2” higher.
Properly good workhorse of a 4x4. Spot with the engine choices using the established BMW and ZF combination and definitely brings that rugged toughy use to people that need it in thier daily lives.
What a great vehicle, literally better than the new defender! Makes you wonder what’s going on at Land Rover?
Traitor
Land Rover can’t make Defenders fast enough that’s what is going on!
@@midlandgeordie They don’t make them anymore, They’ve been discontinued. The original that is, that thing Land Rover make is no replacement.