I bought this sword a few years back and I absolutely love it. If this is considered a low end mid range sword I can't even imagine how good the upper end swords are then.
I would say, the cross guard looseness isn't necessarily a flaw. It does show that the sword was built using the compression methods of the peen, pommel, grip, to the guard. So you should be able to tighten the guard back by repeening a little. This is not uncommon on originals swords of this type as well. I was just handling a couple originals over at the royal armouries and they all shared the same loose guard that doesn't appear to seat properly, and requires maintenance of the peen to keep the guard tight. So I wouldn't be too critical of that.
True that it wasn't uncommon at the time but our standards are much different today than back in the day. We have much more sophisticated machinery it's not hard to make a tight fitting guard. Getting a small gap between the blade and guard is still hard and i don't expect that under 1k$ but hammering the guard on the tang is not hard. Just make the hole slightly smaller and hammer it on and it wont ever come loose.
@@Ren-lx8wv but some companies are making replicas of originals, and it would be inaccurate to make a more tighter fitting guard. So who is more correct, the current market demand, or the historical examples? As a maker myself and studier of historical blades, I often ask what the purpose and intent of modern blades are.
@@chrisfields8077 expensive swords back in historical times were most often fitted correctly as they were made to fit together. Although most swords were effectively mass produced one person just made hundreds of blades then another made hundreds of guards etc. And the would all just be slapped together. Some would fit perfectly some would rattle like crazy but that was normal at the time. But that doesn't change the fact that that's not ideal. They were just easier to make that way back then. Although custom order quality swords even back then were put together well. With technological advancements its not unfair to expect every modern sword to be made to replicate the best swords of the time. Especially since our steel quality and tempering is much better and more consistent. Why shouldn't fit and finish be expected to follow the same trend.
@@Ren-lx8wv actually that's not true. Some of the most expensive swords we know of, attributed to kings and princes' often have pretty badly fit guards from our modern perspective. The reality is, that wasn't a concern for them. Because it doesn't really matter if the piece can be repeened and tightened up.
@@chrisfields8077 still if we have better steel why not strive for better fit when its very easy for is compared to back in the day. Better fit results in a safer and more structurally sound piece. Plus aside from a very few pieces like albions museum line. most swords are not reproductions of any specific Pieces. Many items made back in the day were honestly horrendous bad fit crooked pommels uneven grinds. would you be willing to pay 1500$ for that just because its "historically accurate". I doubt it you expect the best quality possible while following the same constriction as the originals.
Nice job cutting and reviewing this sword and expose its fatal flaw. Luckily mine doesn’t have that shoulder fit problem and it hasn’t come loose after cutting but I noticed lots of Hanwei and Kingston Arms swords have crossguard fit problems and they come loose after some use. See Matt Easton’s review of KA’s sidesword and the Hanwei Rhinelander. It’s a QC issue for sure consistently exist on all Hanwei/KA products. One thing I would like to mention is the secondary bevels out-of-the-box. I think all sharp swords manufactured by KA itself HAVE the secondary bevels, but the models they inherited from Hanwei (some are just made by Hanwei and rebranded like that Katzbalger) have singular-bevels(though typically not very sharp) because of Hanwei’s traditions.
I think you figured out one of my mysteries: My KA sidesword and katzbalger have very keen, no-secondary-bevel edges, and the sidesword looks very much like the older Hanwei model, while the katzbalger was sold under Dragon King. So the Hanwei hand-me-down theory makes a lot of sense. My version of this XIV has a much beefier blade and came with awful blunt secondary bevels--definitely seems like a product made by someone else entirely, and fit-and-finish seem to be all over the place.
@@michaelrizzo5523 I think Kingston Arms/Dragon King is a subsidiary or side branch of Hanwei. They seem to be in good relationship. Why did they need to create two new labels for some of their swords? Nobody seems to know. Maybe somebody's son needs to be in charge of something on his own, but wouldn't mind the daddy gives him a hand.
Very good, very thorough review! Might inspire me to do a follow-up to my initial one as this sword's really grown on me, though I did have to completely redo the edges, rewrapped the grip to make it a bit beefier for my hands (and, yes, added those risers you were thinking of), and I did have to shim the scabbard a bit because there was zero retention in mine. I don't have the same fit and finish issues that your sample has, or the other one from the clips, which tells me that QC may be sloppy on these models. Still, it's an awesome sword for buckler practice, and it's taken a beating with nothing coming loose yet.
This is a very thorough review. I like your dimensional photo/sketch. You must have gotten a Monday-made sword. My copy of the same sword shares NONE of the issues you pointed out. I was dumbfounded by the fit and finish. When properly sharpened, this nimble sword is a great cutter.
Youre on fire with your channel. I must say that I find the seam on my ka sword to be quite uncomfortable when its fingerward but fine the other way. Its not a huge issue but it does feel like a probable hot spot
I am mildly surprised at how hard you came down on the loose guard. I do gotta say that on HEMA weapons our guards almost always get loose eventually. Granted they see a lot more violence in their use but i kind of think of these things as "enjoy the tightness and ring of steel while it lasts" I dont find that it necessarily hastens a sword to its demise but its always a little sad when the rattles start :)
Part of it is the timeline for it getting loose. From what I understand, this sword has not seen a lot of use. I know I didn't do a lot of cutting with it, and I'm pretty sure over at Unsheathed Sword Reviews, they did some testing but not extensive use. It seems entirely too quick for fittings to be coming loose, especially because from what I can tell, the sword doesn't sit all the way into the crossguard. I went back to the USR review and in a couple of their shots I could make out the shoulder of the blade above the guard (although it was considerably more subtle), so it seems like it started coming loose very quickly. I personally don't find that acceptable.
great review, was fairly pleased with my own; needed sharpened of course and maybe as slight negetive the centre and fuller lines weren't perfect, not enough to be all disappointed and care much about it, just enough 'meh' to catch the eye....
It's really too bad it's so hard to see and handle before you buy in this hobby. Would you recommend this to someone who was able to physically check out the blade before buying? It's pretty hard to get such good blade geometry at this price point.
Lol, no. In fact, you'd be hard pressed to find a less-musically inclined, rhythm-free individual than me. I include a link to the source for the music in the description of every video. Most of them are from MusOpen: www.musopen.org.
@@alientude awesome!! ya rhythm is a very hard thing to master, it's part of the process of memorization. You don't just instantly understand rhythm and part of it is to cease the overthinking we have as habits. I'm a musician and growing up rhythm has also been hard for me and part of it is feeling anxious about getting it right. Once you forget about getting it right and simply divide the time, the basic 2/2 4/4 beats are easy and then you can go from there and memorize
Yes, there's always trade-offs. Too rigid and it becomes little more than a spike that will be brittle. Too flexible and it will be floppy in the cut and unable to penetrate much of anything.
@@alientude I remember this information from historians (TV broadcast) about ancient weapons! Since in those times everyone had armor; weapons had to last and not break so everything had to flex or you would lose your blade mid battle against hard enough armor! Not to mention the shield to and weapon to weapon impacts! I think the strategy was look for the weak points and openings at the joints of the armor??? Blades needed to be thin and pointy like to slip in an opening to break through the maile splitting the rings apart to reach the gambeson meats underneath!!! I heard vikings mixed in bone into their metal for weapons development. Probably ceremonial but I think the calcium or magnesium mix made the metal strong and flexible. Modern day methods would see this as an impurity but this probably made weapons have incredible flexible endurance! I also heard some swords had gold mixed in. Unusual since gold is very soft and not ideal for a weapon though gold is immune to rust along with silver (favorite of Norse vikings) and copper. No one is sure HOW or what quantities were mixed to achieve the perfect balance to these ancient weapons but I imagine this gave them incredible properties that modern swords lack for longevity and strength!!! It's a shame to think that we're missing out on all of this and we basically have to liv with practically inferior wall hangers lol Don't even get me started on armors having the wrong gauge thickness!! HA!
I bought this sword a few years back and I absolutely love it. If this is considered a low end mid range sword I can't even imagine how good the upper end swords are then.
dude i gotta say THANK YOU for having actually well done reviews! between you and skall is my authority on reviews love it man!
I appreciate that!
Seeing these for around $300 shipped now. Was really liking this sword.
ive been wanting this sword for so long
i think the aesthetics of it are just so perfect and its so utilitarian and just good i love that
I would say, the cross guard looseness isn't necessarily a flaw. It does show that the sword was built using the compression methods of the peen, pommel, grip, to the guard. So you should be able to tighten the guard back by repeening a little. This is not uncommon on originals swords of this type as well. I was just handling a couple originals over at the royal armouries and they all shared the same loose guard that doesn't appear to seat properly, and requires maintenance of the peen to keep the guard tight. So I wouldn't be too critical of that.
True that it wasn't uncommon at the time but our standards are much different today than back in the day. We have much more sophisticated machinery it's not hard to make a tight fitting guard. Getting a small gap between the blade and guard is still hard and i don't expect that under 1k$ but hammering the guard on the tang is not hard. Just make the hole slightly smaller and hammer it on and it wont ever come loose.
@@Ren-lx8wv but some companies are making replicas of originals, and it would be inaccurate to make a more tighter fitting guard. So who is more correct, the current market demand, or the historical examples? As a maker myself and studier of historical blades, I often ask what the purpose and intent of modern blades are.
@@chrisfields8077 expensive swords back in historical times were most often fitted correctly as they were made to fit together. Although most swords were effectively mass produced one person just made hundreds of blades then another made hundreds of guards etc. And the would all just be slapped together. Some would fit perfectly some would rattle like crazy but that was normal at the time. But that doesn't change the fact that that's not ideal. They were just easier to make that way back then. Although custom order quality swords even back then were put together well. With technological advancements its not unfair to expect every modern sword to be made to replicate the best swords of the time. Especially since our steel quality and tempering is much better and more consistent. Why shouldn't fit and finish be expected to follow the same trend.
@@Ren-lx8wv actually that's not true. Some of the most expensive swords we know of, attributed to kings and princes' often have pretty badly fit guards from our modern perspective. The reality is, that wasn't a concern for them. Because it doesn't really matter if the piece can be repeened and tightened up.
@@chrisfields8077 still if we have better steel why not strive for better fit when its very easy for is compared to back in the day. Better fit results in a safer and more structurally sound piece. Plus aside from a very few pieces like albions museum line. most swords are not reproductions of any specific Pieces. Many items made back in the day were honestly horrendous bad fit crooked pommels uneven grinds. would you be willing to pay 1500$ for that just because its "historically accurate". I doubt it you expect the best quality possible while following the same constriction as the originals.
Nice job cutting and reviewing this sword and expose its fatal flaw. Luckily mine doesn’t have that shoulder fit problem and it hasn’t come loose after cutting but I noticed lots of Hanwei and Kingston Arms swords have crossguard fit problems and they come loose after some use. See Matt Easton’s review of KA’s sidesword and the Hanwei Rhinelander. It’s a QC issue for sure consistently exist on all Hanwei/KA products.
One thing I would like to mention is the secondary bevels out-of-the-box. I think all sharp swords manufactured by KA itself HAVE the secondary bevels, but the models they inherited from Hanwei (some are just made by Hanwei and rebranded like that Katzbalger) have singular-bevels(though typically not very sharp) because of Hanwei’s traditions.
I think you figured out one of my mysteries: My KA sidesword and katzbalger have very keen, no-secondary-bevel edges, and the sidesword looks very much like the older Hanwei model, while the katzbalger was sold under Dragon King. So the Hanwei hand-me-down theory makes a lot of sense. My version of this XIV has a much beefier blade and came with awful blunt secondary bevels--definitely seems like a product made by someone else entirely, and fit-and-finish seem to be all over the place.
@@michaelrizzo5523 I think Kingston Arms/Dragon King is a subsidiary or side branch of Hanwei. They seem to be in good relationship. Why did they need to create two new labels for some of their swords? Nobody seems to know. Maybe somebody's son needs to be in charge of something on his own, but wouldn't mind the daddy gives him a hand.
Very good, very thorough review! Might inspire me to do a follow-up to my initial one as this sword's really grown on me, though I did have to completely redo the edges, rewrapped the grip to make it a bit beefier for my hands (and, yes, added those risers you were thinking of), and I did have to shim the scabbard a bit because there was zero retention in mine. I don't have the same fit and finish issues that your sample has, or the other one from the clips, which tells me that QC may be sloppy on these models. Still, it's an awesome sword for buckler practice, and it's taken a beating with nothing coming loose yet.
This is a very thorough review. I like your dimensional photo/sketch. You must have gotten a Monday-made sword. My copy of the same sword shares NONE of the issues you pointed out. I was dumbfounded by the fit and finish. When properly sharpened, this nimble sword is a great cutter.
Youre on fire with your channel.
I must say that I find the seam on my ka sword to be quite uncomfortable when its fingerward but fine the other way. Its not a huge issue but it does feel like a probable hot spot
I am mildly surprised at how hard you came down on the loose guard. I do gotta say that on HEMA weapons our guards almost always get loose eventually. Granted they see a lot more violence in their use but i kind of think of these things as "enjoy the tightness and ring of steel while it lasts"
I dont find that it necessarily hastens a sword to its demise but its always a little sad when the rattles start :)
Part of it is the timeline for it getting loose. From what I understand, this sword has not seen a lot of use. I know I didn't do a lot of cutting with it, and I'm pretty sure over at Unsheathed Sword Reviews, they did some testing but not extensive use. It seems entirely too quick for fittings to be coming loose, especially because from what I can tell, the sword doesn't sit all the way into the crossguard. I went back to the USR review and in a couple of their shots I could make out the shoulder of the blade above the guard (although it was considerably more subtle), so it seems like it started coming loose very quickly. I personally don't find that acceptable.
I was about to buy one of Kingston's Arms swords and thanks to your review, I decided to pass. Thank goodness!
great review, was fairly pleased with my own; needed sharpened of course and maybe as slight negetive the centre and fuller lines weren't perfect, not enough to be all disappointed and care much about it, just enough 'meh' to catch the eye....
Beautiful fig tree behind you.
It is. Had to be trimmed back recently, so it's not looking quite as lush right now. :)
@@alientude I recently did the same thing because I couldn't reach the figs. Next year you won't even notice.
The fact that it has come loose is an immediate fail. It’s too bad.
It's really too bad it's so hard to see and handle before you buy in this hobby.
Would you recommend this to someone who was able to physically check out the blade before buying? It's pretty hard to get such good blade geometry at this price point.
I would definitely recommend it if you could be sure the blade sat in the crossguard properly. It's on sale in a few places for $299 right now too.
Are you a music director for a classical music company? Where are you getting these tracks
Lol, no. In fact, you'd be hard pressed to find a less-musically inclined, rhythm-free individual than me. I include a link to the source for the music in the description of every video. Most of them are from MusOpen: www.musopen.org.
@@alientude awesome!! ya rhythm is a very hard thing to master, it's part of the process of memorization. You don't just instantly understand rhythm and part of it is to cease the overthinking we have as habits. I'm a musician and growing up rhythm has also been hard for me and part of it is feeling anxious about getting it right. Once you forget about getting it right and simply divide the time, the basic 2/2 4/4 beats are easy and then you can go from there and memorize
Also a sword that doesn't flex is going to be very lousy against an armored opponent or even up against a hard shield. That thing will break for sure!
Yes, there's always trade-offs. Too rigid and it becomes little more than a spike that will be brittle. Too flexible and it will be floppy in the cut and unable to penetrate much of anything.
@@alientude I remember this information from historians (TV broadcast) about ancient weapons! Since in those times everyone had armor; weapons had to last and not break so everything had to flex or you would lose your blade mid battle against hard enough armor! Not to mention the shield to and weapon to weapon impacts! I think the strategy was look for the weak points and openings at the joints of the armor??? Blades needed to be thin and pointy like to slip in an opening to break through the maile splitting the rings apart to reach the gambeson meats underneath!!!
I heard vikings mixed in bone into their metal for weapons development. Probably ceremonial but I think the calcium or magnesium mix made the metal strong and flexible. Modern day methods would see this as an impurity but this probably made weapons have incredible flexible endurance!
I also heard some swords had gold mixed in. Unusual since gold is very soft and not ideal for a weapon though gold is immune to rust along with silver (favorite of Norse vikings) and copper. No one is sure HOW or what quantities were mixed to achieve the perfect balance to these ancient weapons but I imagine this gave them incredible properties that modern swords lack for longevity and strength!!!
It's a shame to think that we're missing out on all of this and we basically have to liv with practically inferior wall hangers lol
Don't even get me started on armors having the wrong gauge thickness!! HA!
$299.00 on Amazon
Your shoulders still