I’ve been playing commander for two years now, and have built 5 decks from scratch and one heavily upgraded Precon, as well as brewed about another 50 or so decks online. I think your advice is absolutely incredible for newer deck builders. I’ve seen a ton of new decks at my LGS where people’s sub theme becomes 20 or so cards of the deck. Enough to hurt the main game plan but not enough to actually provide consistent value. They consistently get opening hands that don’t have a concise game plan and are trying to do too many things, rather than one main thing and something that overlaps with it. I’ve recently been challenging myself with a Ardenn/Vial smasher mardu curses/goad deck. Trying to balance the curses, enchantment support, goad subpackage with regular draw, removal, and ramp is hard to balance multiple subthemes at once. The deck probably isn’t great but shows the weakness of diverting too many resources away from the main gameplan. Excellent video, earned yourself a new subscriber!
Or sometimes, like me, you just wanna have a dumb deck, where the sub theme IS the theme and it never works correctly but then when it DOES it's hilariously funny.
I'm very new to EDH and MTG in general, I just found your videos and they're super helpful! now i need to go look at my decks and see what I have in them and why it's in there, maybe I can start winning some games then 😅
Haha well welcome to magic! I'm sure in due time you'll be crushing pods here soon. I have an idea for a video on tips for beginners to improve in a game of (specifically) EDH, but I'm not sure when that one would release. I appreciate you here though and stay tuned!
Hi, your sixth subscriber here. I needed this video and didn't know it. I get lost in sub-themes a lot. Keep up the great content. Congrats on 1000 subs I was here before you were big lmao
I think the main problem is people in this game believe there to be a main theme and a subtheme. But it's actually and always the rule of two; it's two themes. Hydras AND targeting spells. Talrand: Spellslinger AND tokens... etc.
2:01 This is exactly what I did with my Gimli, Mournful Avenger deck I built recently. I play spells that make eldrazi scion and spawn tokens to ramp into big eldrazi bombs, but can also sac the tokens at instant speed to trigger Gimli's fight ability to remove creatures, which is why the only creature spot removal I run is taped onto Annihilator and some generic spot removal like Beast Within. But in doing this, Gimli gets extra thicc, so I have an 8 card Voltron package with things like Mage Slayer and Lizard Blades to take advantage of his being chunky. And if I draw into a lot of those cards, I can just lean into it.
That's a good point. The last deck I built was a Skeletok Ship deck where the main plan was to be a control deck and use things like Horobi, Willbreaker and Cowardice to boost the commander's ability.. But I ended up including a lot of subthemes to complement it: a Proliferate pack, a Skeleton tribal pack, and since most of the skeletons were coming back from the graveyard, a little bit of Aristocrat stuff, and one more around committing crimes. In the first tests I saw that most of the cards with Proliferate were useless if they weren't perfectly aligned and the tribal part was forcing me to stay tapped out, deviating from the original plan.
I made a Niv Mizzet deck (the 5 color one that looks for the dual color cards among the top 10 cards), and while making it, I eventually put the 5 rings based off of the 5 colors in the deck. Since I'm looking for dual color cards, a lot of what I'm finding doesn't synergize with each other, but are their own big threats that my opponents want to eliminate, either through targeted removal or board wipe. I also put plenty of reusable revival power in the deck since they are strong creatures, but the rings are my backup plan in the late game. Since the rings are colorless and low cost to cast and equip, if I happen to have that spare mana lying around, and i usually do, I can equip it to a creature of mine to give it a keyword (except the blue and black ones, those are activated abilities), and since the creature is always a dual colored creature, the ring has 40% chance to be the right one to buff it over time if I get it in the early game. Even if they get rid of the creature's I tutor with my commander, each ring can be equipped to him to buff him very well over time for very little cost. Even if they get rid of him, his ability is an ETB, so I want him fighting anyway so I can cast him again. The dual colors I tutor with the commander eventually make it easier to get the rings anyway. It's always funny when I can get to that point and beat them with Niv Mizzet, Lord of the Rings!
I have a Zaxara deck that I'm working towards and it's main theme is spells with X in the cost. This is because Zaxara, while it is on the field, generates Hydra tokens where they get +1 counters for the cost of the X in the spell and wouldn't you know it, there are alot of Hydra creatures with X in the cost. This stacks quite nicely with Gargos and it's cost reducing effects of Hydra cards and goes even better with Unbound Flourishing, an enchantment that doubles the mana used in an X spell AND doubles instant and sorcery spells with X in the cost. Imagine someone spending 2 mana on an X spell and getting a +12/+12 hydra out of it plus whatever the effect of the main spell casted was.
I seem to do really well with my Gargos hydra tribal deck lol. Make big hydras, and protect them with auras and instants that trigger the fight ability is a good game plan for me. My playgroup uses loads of removal, so being able to cast a giant x cost hydra right after a wipe is fun.
I also have a gargos deck and it's the most focused thing i have. It's mostly abt ramping aggresively and exploiting the fight mechanic, killing key things for my opponents and using mass pump spells to clear the victory. It's oppressive and even has some tron elements (only a sword, the shadowspear and some whacky evasive enchantments, nothing more) and it's super enjoyable to play. I love that deck
That's how I deckbuild, out of necessity. Aside from one or two new cards each week or a booster pack once in a while, I build just from what I already own. No proxies for me unless I already have the card and plan on grabbing another copy. So I just don't have enough cards in any given theme to make something happen, unless I figure out what other themes mesh well and mash them together. And then there's the really weird one: Band of Brothers. I threw every planeswalker I own in a Jenson Carthalien deck along with every alternate win condition I own. The goal is to survive long enough to kill one enemy using one of those cards. Door to Nothingness is my favorite, but I can get Azor's Elocutors to go off in three turns if I manage to play Vorel of the Hull Clade the same turn or earlier. The biggest problem so far is devoting 1/4 of my lands to guildgates for Maze's End.
I exactly did that in my: -) shalay & Hallar deck :D +1/+1 counters + some elves :D -) Or Atla Palani: tokens & populate + some elves. -) Or "Sephara, the Sky's Blade": flyers + payoffs for indestructibility (i.e., "Magus of the Disk", because common boardwipes are lazy and boring) + some Angel payoff. -) Or "Bilbo, Birthday something", with life matter (and some usage kf life) + massive human tribal subtheme My last 2 would be: -) a Jeskai "charge counter" artifact where the "mass kf artifact matter -) a "Gnostro, something " with damage bouncers (Stuffy Doll, Brash Taunter and Phyrexian Vindicator) + some "tap abilities / untappers subtheme to still have something to work with when the storm count is low (it usually will be low)
I had a Nath of the Gilt Leaf deck and I never figured out, if I wanted an elf deck with a discard subtheme or a discard deck with an elf subtheme. It was always clunky.
I think that one depends on how much you like playing your commander! I personally would go with discard first, then some benefits for elves just because in BG you have a much better option to play an elfball deck (Lathril). If you go with primarily elves, your commander really doesn't do much besides make a 1/1 on your upkeep and rarely at other times.
@BetterDeckbuilding I agree. But I have to mention, that I played the deck in a time before Lathril existed. There weren't many options for golgari elves back then. ^^
Funny enough I was just getting done tuning a ghyrson list, thinking about buying it. Another thing that fits really well into the subtheme of tokens are the instant and sorceries that make 1/1 red devil tokens that do 1 damage to anything when they die.
I used to play more of the enchantments like Font of Fertility, but eventually I added Hermit Druid and just didn’t have enough basics to support those types of cards
My Tatsunari deck is mostly focused on enchantments, but u do have Yargle and Multani in there because i find the idea of giving flying to a creature with 18 power to be hilarious.
Ah, another fellow angry gargos enjoyer. Instead of going the enchantress route, i personally went into a large fighting creature subtheme. (mostly because thats what i had on hand =P). Make a bunch of creatures, make them fight things. turns out, having a bunch of creatures on board and a indestructible gargos via things like darksteel plate = mono green board wipe nobody expects. setessan tactics anyone? XD its always super funny watching everyone reacting to the incoming fight club. Monstrous Onslaught becomes an amazing flavor win too. its great. highly recommend
So I'm having the issue of not really knowing my through line with my Creative Energy/Science mashup. I know it's an Energy/Artifacts deck with Madison Li in the CZ
But when the hydra player wants to totally flood the board with free hydras and then give them haste +10/+10, now I become a problem (also facts on that managorger hydra trigger, he just sits there). Also love the calculus add in lol
because it serves like 6 cards in the deck? non-creature-specific ramp will help both the commander and every other card in your deck, type-specific cost reduction is worth more than a mana rock if you think you're going to be playing more than 1 creature of that type each turn, but otherwise on all of your other turns it's a dead permanent, doing basically nothing?
It only works for my commander and the 5 other hydras. Plus, if I have my commander out already, it ends up not mattering for Omnivore and Whiptongue. Any other 3-mana +2 ramp spell would be better since I could play other cards with it.
DO: make your subtheme something you can pivot to immediately and get payoff without setup. DON’T: make a subtheme for your subtheme so you can distract yourself from your game plan while you distract yourself from your other game plan.
it is morally correct to add cards to the deck only because they're really funny even if they don't contribute to the game plan It is within my right as a blue player to add kozilek to my bruvac deck just because I think the shouts of disbelief from across the table are worth it
"And the last one is just really, really funny."
Definitely a Commander player.😂
As someone who recently got into magic, your content is exactly what I needed. Its really great.
I’ve been playing commander for two years now, and have built 5 decks from scratch and one heavily upgraded Precon, as well as brewed about another 50 or so decks online.
I think your advice is absolutely incredible for newer deck builders. I’ve seen a ton of new decks at my LGS where people’s sub theme becomes 20 or so cards of the deck. Enough to hurt the main game plan but not enough to actually provide consistent value. They consistently get opening hands that don’t have a concise game plan and are trying to do too many things, rather than one main thing and something that overlaps with it.
I’ve recently been challenging myself with a Ardenn/Vial smasher mardu curses/goad deck. Trying to balance the curses, enchantment support, goad subpackage with regular draw, removal, and ramp is hard to balance multiple subthemes at once. The deck probably isn’t great but shows the weakness of diverting too many resources away from the main gameplan.
Excellent video, earned yourself a new subscriber!
i think this type of content is absolutely crucial for newer deck builders like myself. love your videos!
Glad you enjoy it!
Genuinely, your production value and advice is some of the best out there, more so than some already established people! I'm loving seeing you grow.
Or sometimes, like me, you just wanna have a dumb deck, where the sub theme IS the theme and it never works correctly but then when it DOES it's hilariously funny.
This is EXCELLENT. I'm going to be sending this to all my new player friends. Thanks for another banger!
i'm so glad this showed up in my recommended out of nowhere, love this type of content!
really interesting stuff coming from this channel, cant wait to see more
i’m loving this new channel!!! thank you and i can’t wait to watch you on this journey
Welcome aboard!
High quality stuff here. Keep it up!
I've been loving your content! Keep up the good work!
Thank you for watching!
I'm very new to EDH and MTG in general, I just found your videos and they're super helpful! now i need to go look at my decks and see what I have in them and why it's in there, maybe I can start winning some games then 😅
Haha well welcome to magic! I'm sure in due time you'll be crushing pods here soon. I have an idea for a video on tips for beginners to improve in a game of (specifically) EDH, but I'm not sure when that one would release. I appreciate you here though and stay tuned!
Hi, your sixth subscriber here. I needed this video and didn't know it. I get lost in sub-themes a lot. Keep up the great content. Congrats on 1000 subs I was here before you were big lmao
I'll always remember 🫶
I think the main problem is people in this game believe there to be a main theme and a subtheme. But it's actually and always the rule of two; it's two themes. Hydras AND targeting spells. Talrand: Spellslinger AND tokens... etc.
2:01 This is exactly what I did with my Gimli, Mournful Avenger deck I built recently. I play spells that make eldrazi scion and spawn tokens to ramp into big eldrazi bombs, but can also sac the tokens at instant speed to trigger Gimli's fight ability to remove creatures, which is why the only creature spot removal I run is taped onto Annihilator and some generic spot removal like Beast Within. But in doing this, Gimli gets extra thicc, so I have an 8 card Voltron package with things like Mage Slayer and Lizard Blades to take advantage of his being chunky. And if I draw into a lot of those cards, I can just lean into it.
The most important peice of information I took from this video is to build a Gargos deck immediately
That's a good point. The last deck I built was a Skeletok Ship deck where the main plan was to be a control deck and use things like Horobi, Willbreaker and Cowardice to boost the commander's ability..
But I ended up including a lot of subthemes to complement it: a Proliferate pack, a Skeleton tribal pack, and since most of the skeletons were coming back from the graveyard, a little bit of Aristocrat stuff, and one more around committing crimes.
In the first tests I saw that most of the cards with Proliferate were useless if they weren't perfectly aligned and the tribal part was forcing me to stay tapped out, deviating from the original plan.
I made a Niv Mizzet deck (the 5 color one that looks for the dual color cards among the top 10 cards), and while making it, I eventually put the 5 rings based off of the 5 colors in the deck. Since I'm looking for dual color cards, a lot of what I'm finding doesn't synergize with each other, but are their own big threats that my opponents want to eliminate, either through targeted removal or board wipe. I also put plenty of reusable revival power in the deck since they are strong creatures, but the rings are my backup plan in the late game. Since the rings are colorless and low cost to cast and equip, if I happen to have that spare mana lying around, and i usually do, I can equip it to a creature of mine to give it a keyword (except the blue and black ones, those are activated abilities), and since the creature is always a dual colored creature, the ring has 40% chance to be the right one to buff it over time if I get it in the early game. Even if they get rid of the creature's I tutor with my commander, each ring can be equipped to him to buff him very well over time for very little cost. Even if they get rid of him, his ability is an ETB, so I want him fighting anyway so I can cast him again. The dual colors I tutor with the commander eventually make it easier to get the rings anyway. It's always funny when I can get to that point and beat them with Niv Mizzet, Lord of the Rings!
I have a Zaxara deck that I'm working towards and it's main theme is spells with X in the cost. This is because Zaxara, while it is on the field, generates Hydra tokens where they get +1 counters for the cost of the X in the spell and wouldn't you know it, there are alot of Hydra creatures with X in the cost. This stacks quite nicely with Gargos and it's cost reducing effects of Hydra cards and goes even better with Unbound Flourishing, an enchantment that doubles the mana used in an X spell AND doubles instant and sorcery spells with X in the cost. Imagine someone spending 2 mana on an X spell and getting a +12/+12 hydra out of it plus whatever the effect of the main spell casted was.
❤ earned another sub, this is a great video.
I seem to do really well with my Gargos hydra tribal deck lol. Make big hydras, and protect them with auras and instants that trigger the fight ability is a good game plan for me. My playgroup uses loads of removal, so being able to cast a giant x cost hydra right after a wipe is fun.
Solid work!
I also have a gargos deck and it's the most focused thing i have. It's mostly abt ramping aggresively and exploiting the fight mechanic, killing key things for my opponents and using mass pump spells to clear the victory. It's oppressive and even has some tron elements (only a sword, the shadowspear and some whacky evasive enchantments, nothing more) and it's super enjoyable to play. I love that deck
Same bro, had to take it apart cause people were tired of gettijg bodied by a 100 dollar green deck lol
This is truly very good advice, I do mean that sincerely
But
Leaving my own Gargos deck woefully unoptimised is funnier
That's how I deckbuild, out of necessity. Aside from one or two new cards each week or a booster pack once in a while, I build just from what I already own. No proxies for me unless I already have the card and plan on grabbing another copy. So I just don't have enough cards in any given theme to make something happen, unless I figure out what other themes mesh well and mash them together. And then there's the really weird one: Band of Brothers. I threw every planeswalker I own in a Jenson Carthalien deck along with every alternate win condition I own. The goal is to survive long enough to kill one enemy using one of those cards. Door to Nothingness is my favorite, but I can get Azor's Elocutors to go off in three turns if I manage to play Vorel of the Hull Clade the same turn or earlier. The biggest problem so far is devoting 1/4 of my lands to guildgates for Maze's End.
5:00 I feel kinda called out lol
I exactly did that in my:
-) shalay & Hallar deck :D +1/+1 counters + some elves :D
-) Or Atla Palani: tokens & populate + some elves.
-) Or "Sephara, the Sky's Blade": flyers + payoffs for indestructibility (i.e., "Magus of the Disk", because common boardwipes are lazy and boring) + some Angel payoff.
-) Or "Bilbo, Birthday something", with life matter (and some usage kf life) + massive human tribal subtheme
My last 2 would be:
-) a Jeskai "charge counter" artifact where the "mass kf artifact matter
-) a "Gnostro, something " with damage bouncers (Stuffy Doll, Brash Taunter and Phyrexian Vindicator) + some "tap abilities / untappers subtheme to still have something to work with when the storm count is low (it usually will be low)
I had a Nath of the Gilt Leaf deck and I never figured out, if I wanted an elf deck with a discard subtheme or a discard deck with an elf subtheme. It was always clunky.
I think that one depends on how much you like playing your commander! I personally would go with discard first, then some benefits for elves just because in BG you have a much better option to play an elfball deck (Lathril). If you go with primarily elves, your commander really doesn't do much besides make a 1/1 on your upkeep and rarely at other times.
@BetterDeckbuilding I agree. But I have to mention, that I played the deck in a time before Lathril existed. There weren't many options for golgari elves back then. ^^
Jokes on you, my Gargos deck has exclusively hydras in it 😂
Funny enough I was just getting done tuning a ghyrson list, thinking about buying it.
Another thing that fits really well into the subtheme of tokens are the instant and sorceries that make 1/1 red devil tokens that do 1 damage to anything when they die.
Buddy of mine has a primal surge Muldrotha deck, too. But his has the enchantment sub theme which is good for ramping and drawing into primal surge.
I used to play more of the enchantments like Font of Fertility, but eventually I added Hermit Druid and just didn’t have enough basics to support those types of cards
My Tatsunari deck is mostly focused on enchantments, but u do have Yargle and Multani in there because i find the idea of giving flying to a creature with 18 power to be hilarious.
Hey ! Love the content, just one tiny detail.
That may be me but I find the blue and black text difficult to read
Hydras are just cool 😎
this is true
Ah, another fellow angry gargos enjoyer. Instead of going the enchantress route, i personally went into a large fighting creature subtheme. (mostly because thats what i had on hand =P). Make a bunch of creatures, make them fight things. turns out, having a bunch of creatures on board and a indestructible gargos via things like darksteel plate = mono green board wipe nobody expects. setessan tactics anyone? XD its always super funny watching everyone reacting to the incoming fight club. Monstrous Onslaught becomes an amazing flavor win too. its great. highly recommend
you have to fight 3/3 elk, deck driver and the snail guy now.... you have to for the plot
So I'm having the issue of not really knowing my through line with my Creative Energy/Science mashup. I know it's an Energy/Artifacts deck with Madison Li in the CZ
But when the hydra player wants to totally flood the board with free hydras and then give them haste +10/+10, now I become a problem (also facts on that managorger hydra trigger, he just sits there). Also love the calculus add in lol
YESSSSS . Gargo 2nd ability is infinitely better than first
Why would Urza's Incubator be bad? Turn 3 play means Turn 4 commander if you also hit a land drop. Additionally all your hydras cost 2 less (or x+2).
because it serves like 6 cards in the deck?
non-creature-specific ramp will help both the commander and every other card in your deck, type-specific cost reduction is worth more than a mana rock if you think you're going to be playing more than 1 creature of that type each turn, but otherwise on all of your other turns it's a dead permanent, doing basically nothing?
It only works for my commander and the 5 other hydras. Plus, if I have my commander out already, it ends up not mattering for Omnivore and Whiptongue. Any other 3-mana +2 ramp spell would be better since I could play other cards with it.
@@BetterDeckbuilding I see. I thought your deck had more hydras and the ones you showcased were just examples.
congrats on 1000, sooo the answer isn't always adding more hydras? 😅
It’s a dangerous path… be wary, traveler
I think after watching this my Dorothea deck has only two sub-themes (MFCs similar to Dorothea and Spirits) and no real valid gameplan.
And sometimes your subtheme has a subtheme and you've built a deck with 250 cards. Oops!
DO: make your subtheme something you can pivot to immediately and get payoff without setup.
DON’T: make a subtheme for your subtheme so you can distract yourself from your game plan while you distract yourself from your other game plan.
If you play Apex Devastator, you don't deserve friends.
Why have friends when you can cascade FOUR TIMES?!?!
Tl:dr don’t run anthems
it is morally correct to add cards to the deck only because they're really funny even if they don't contribute to the game plan
It is within my right as a blue player to add kozilek to my bruvac deck just because I think the shouts of disbelief from across the table are worth it