I sincerely hope that with neoforge and fabric in communication, they can make a unified mod loader so that there can finally be no more compatibility issues for the players, and less loaders for devs to develop for.
Yeah agree. I think quilt could go off and do experiments and push the envelope and then things get standardized and adopted in NeoForge / Fabric as those new systems solidify. Hopefully these new communities build trust, respect, and awesome mods!
I thought this meant unified mods in general, it would be really cool if Forge and Fabric mods merged together, or there was a way you could play with both maybe one day
yeah this entire community is a circus on god. there's a lot that happens behind the scenes with these teams that makes these really hard to discuss, but giant communities like this are always going to have these kinds of events, it's inevitable.
Got to love Neoforge, they started to change stuff (Registration and packets) to use more vanilla code....., and the native support or parchment mapping and mixins is pretty nice.
I think forge still has an advantage because of 1.12.2 and 1.7.10 and older versions but fabric is a huge contender against forge but they will need to make older/pre 1.14 versions and they have even more competition
damn near praying all the modloader teams can unite to make a mega-loader so we can finally have a standardized modloader. having a single unified standard is so much better for both devs and players, and one reason i haven't played minecraft that much recently is because of the constant drama and fracturing of the community.
Damn it. There are 2 (4) conflicting standards. We should create one universal standard that will unite them all! There are 5 conflicting standards now
I ditched forge in 1.18 for the simple fact that fabric ran way way better. Not to mention that the mod updates came out faster when a new minecraft version would release. The create mod for forge vs fabric is night and day in performance.
I switched to Fabric for the same reason. I've been wondering if it was just me and my PC not being able to handle Forge for some weird reason, but I see it's actually a common experience. Not to mention, Sodium is on Fabric and simply can't work on Forge due to its limitations anyway.
For vanilla with client sided mods like performance based mods or minimap I ditched Forge in 1.20 because it ran like dog water in comparison to Fabric, but in bigger modpacks I still choose for Forge more than Fabric
I think people often forget that humans are often not totally good or evil, but usually in the middle. Lex has his downsides but he's still incredibly talented
@destiny4963 the only thing lex is guilty of is beeing an asshole. He shouldnt have been put in public relations as he's an asshole. But beeing mean doesnt mean hes a bad person
Another thing to take note of is Rift (the modloader for 1.13). I suppose little information is known about it but from what I gathered it failed as the forge team very hostile towards them and shut them down somehow
As a player, I hate so much how there isn't a unified mod loader and basically there are multiple mod eco systems competing with each others. It is so annoying... and that's not a jab at the modders, but rather at mojang that they could've easily have made a native mod loader to standardize the mod scene long ago.
the best that Mojang has done has been datapacks for java edition. they basically work like those custom "only one command block" projects that added a big box of command blocks to your world that added in custom features, just all of it is written in code that basically just acts as the same thing but without having to be placed in the world. you can also use datapacks to make custom structures, biomes, dimensions, and world generation. they're powerful, but very limited compared to modding. however, they are a thing, and they're pretty cool, so i wouldn't say mojang Completely ditched "mod support". it's just not really actual modding. most people consider datapacks to be "only vanilla" because it's basically just using command blocks which are already in vanilla
@@luviana_Mojang is actually updating how datapacks are written, so there's hope that it'll come out of being a laughingstock (with exceptions). I doubt it'll ever compare to a true mod loader, but it'll be interesting to see what comes of it.
Thanks for this video. I've completely forgot all of this, even though I played so much with first versions of these iconic first mods. It brings memories back to life, that were burnt after 1.7.10 version, which was the latest I've played for a long time, partially due to my obsession with gregtech mod.
Well done. Still surprised how much you manage to dodge all of the drama topics (especially considering how much they can engage people into watching and sharing the content). Can't wait for video about Fabric :) And I'll be disappointed if a love letter to IC2 won't leak into it (just in case: this is a joke)
I dont like drama. Im here for the technicality. In this case lex plays a big role in what happened hence its still a bit more then usual. But thanks! Also i already made a loveletter to ic2 hahah
>I dont like drama. Im here for the technicality. And that's what I appreciate personally. Especially considering the state of game's community rn. People often tend to focus on emotions rather than technical details behind problems
They tried doing that for the networking, fabric just ended the partnership after they got tired of beeing strongarmed and because the code neo was proposing "was too complex"
I remember when I first went to the Forge discord to try and get some guidance they were quite mean and didn't try to help after watching this video the person I encountered probably was lex
o/ Good video. Though I like to append to this. IIRC lex was part of it in the beginning. And also flowerchild was part of the MCF team, who created the Better then wolves mod. For those who don't know this mod, Its basically creates predecessor, long before create was a thing. (I still miss BTW) Also iirc both flowerchild and Eloraam were bullied out of the project. I wasn't there when that happened but I talked to people who were. So please take my appending with a grain of salt its been a few years I talked to this person about that. (I am still talking to him xD) Also forge was only for a very short time a Modloader addon. They kinda pushed it out of the way by making a expanded clone and making both ForgeModLoader (not MinecraftForge) and Modloader compatible but slowly pushing out Modloader by adding features it did not have. Not sure if it was a hostile takeover or if the modloader dev simply joined forge, but i remember how smooth the transition was between modloader + forge to only forge.
Always good to see you speiger! The addon to modloader part was indeed very fast but its notable that it started out as an addon. And as for the hostile takeover, it was more a case of them giving the reigns to Lex
If they are leaving forge because they don’t want to support it anymore then why would they remove compatibility with the same mods? It literally just gives people more of a reason to continue to use forge.
theres already mods that add layering for mods to be compatible with forge and fabric/quilt. they could just port sinitry connector and patchworkMC to neoforge
Imagine my overwhelming happiness when my first modded server can't use shaders because of the incompatibility between all of these mods and loaders. Irritating.
I wish the Modding community didnt split up into multiple different mod loaders. I wish it stayed as just one mod loader. So that making modded public servers more alive. I've been interested in making a Create Modpack Towny server, but been doubting if it would even be worth it or not if people would even join. Since some people (mainly players who joined MC in 2020s don't even know what mods are.)
What I take away from this video is some one had a attitude problem, and not willing to work with others. I am a Minecraft player, and not a developer. I know there are more Players then Developers. All I want to do is play Minecraft, and install mods I enjoy using for whatever version I enjoy playing. Its really that simple. If Developers can't work with each other and keep mods going then at some point players will move on to other games. There is no such thing as Developers ruling over players, and telling them what they can or can not play, and anyone thinking they can Ha. Good luck with that concept because we already removed kings trying to control Our country. I don't see it working for a video game. Blizzard tried that too, and its not working for them. Today in 2024 its ether 1.12.2, or 1.16.5 that has the most mods. The main point and fact is players/people will stay mainly in the version that has the most mods, and gives the most choice. Minecraft can keep making new versions all they want but vanilla can only be entertaining for so long till you get bored and the mods come in and make it more fun. There for it is fact that what ever version has the most choice is where Minecraft stay's alive. The question you should ask is what version of Minecraft is used for every Minecraft UA-cam video? Every video on UA-cam for Minecraft is for what version? I highly doubt most videos are for the current version. I would put money down its for what ever version has the most mods.
@@robertovidiuspinu3314 Never played that version yet. I just went to what ever version has the most mods. It was 1.12.2 for a while, but I am pretty sure the version 1.16.5 has the most or same amount of mods now. So it shifted over the years.
I'm one of those people who confused Forge and CurseForge. Oops! Anyway, as long as a loader let's me play RLCraft and explore other random mod packs, I'm happy about it.
That's a lot harder than you think which is why no such project really exists for Forge. There are some projects that can run some Fabric mods on Forge, but they're not universal. It's also why Spongeforge is stuck on 1.16.5
It's just disappointing to see that every new modloader breaks compatibility with each other. If NeoForge eventually takes over so many great forge mods will be lost forever, even tho their authors did nothing wrong
I lump Lex in with Linus Torvolds (or however you spell it if I’m wrong). They can be condescending, but they’re often correct. You can’t baby everyone and people shouldn’t be so sensitive.
Fair fair, however he was in charge of a large project and his actions did influence forge's future. So again hes not a monster, maybe just a bit too direct for leadership
I will see for that vaskii makes his mods and then use the other one, that way I don't have to use mods from someone that hates me based of the color of my skin
6:13 based on given in the screenshot information I can't disagree with Lex. Most event systems iterate over event listeners. Please use better example.
I think u hit the nail on the head there! As someone who has worked as support i totally understand what lex is saying, but the way he says it can be seen ad abrasive
Why would neoforge losing compatibality with forge matter? Old mods for forge already dont work on newer versions and if most of the devs for forge left, people will most likely make new mods for neoforge on newer version, where you already couldnt use the old forge mods
@@antikommunistischaktion People seem to forget that you basically had to rewrite for a new modloader every Minecraft update anyway, because Forge did nothing to try and ease the transition. I recall the 1.7>1.8 transition being very rough with the transition from TESR to block models, with many authors giving up or taking a long time to update because it was so different, and Forge offered no help in easing the transition, you just had to learn the new system straight up and forget everything you knew.
The same old story, then. Guy gets control of the biggest Thing in the space, and starts to think he's god. Man/Virgin/Loser needs to touch grass. But he probably thinks Grass is another mod loader so BURN IT FORGE FUR LYF.
Shortly after 1.20.1 released, a friend group that I’m in started a modded server and I downloaded Fabric as well as all the mods needed for the server. I went to play and it didn’t work. I asked them what was wrong and they said that the server is using Forge. I actually cringed, and I don’t mean “wow bro that’s kinda cringe” I mean fully sighed and said “why” to myself. Downloaded Forge and who would’ve guessed, the server ran like complete ass and that server was probably the worse Minecraft experience I’ve had in a while.
![I Survived 1000 Days in Minecraft Create Mod [FULL MOVIE #1]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/qEQt8FXKAUg/mqdefault.jpg)
Feel free to shout at me in discord:
discord.gg/cygnusmc
ok
quality vid man. u will get big soon
I sincerely hope that with neoforge and fabric in communication, they can make a unified mod loader so that there can finally be no more compatibility issues for the players, and less loaders for devs to develop for.
Yeah agree. I think quilt could go off and do experiments and push the envelope and then things get standardized and adopted in NeoForge / Fabric as those new systems solidify. Hopefully these new communities build trust, respect, and awesome mods!
I thought this meant unified mods in general, it would be really cool if Forge and Fabric mods merged together, or there was a way you could play with both
maybe one day
@@leoultimaupgraded9914 You can already. Sinytra Connector.
This. My biggest fear with neoforge is that it will simply divide the mod space again
@@blackheartdistrution Lexforge has literally no realistic ability or reason to continue to exist though. The entire devteam left.
yeah this entire community is a circus on god. there's a lot that happens behind the scenes with these teams that makes these really hard to discuss, but giant communities like this are always going to have these kinds of events, it's inevitable.
Was i not just talking to you about minecraft 1.6 lmao? Honoured to see you here
Got to love Neoforge, they started to change stuff (Registration and packets) to use more vanilla code....., and the native support or parchment mapping and mixins is pretty nice.
It's crazy how technology evolves so fast in only a few years
I think forge still has an advantage because of 1.12.2 and 1.7.10 and older versions but fabric is a huge contender against forge but they will need to make older/pre 1.14 versions and they have even more competition
legacy fabric is a thing iirc
Yeah. Unfortunately forge still has some mods that fabric does not. Only reason I still use it some times. Like rl craft
Honestly, I just use Forge for old versions and for modern versions fabric.
No. Fabric can't take anything from pre 1.14 versions simply because he only reason why people play those versions in the first place is for forge
Risugami's Modloader(the ancient Modloader )went only up to 1.6.2 and hardly anybody used Liteloader between 1.7 to 1.14
damn near praying all the modloader teams can unite to make a mega-loader so we can finally have a standardized modloader.
having a single unified standard is so much better for both devs and players, and one reason i haven't played minecraft that much recently is because of the constant drama and fracturing of the community.
Me too I want an Ultimate modloader
Damn it. There are 2 (4) conflicting standards. We should create one universal standard that will unite them all!
There are 5 conflicting standards now
I ditched forge in 1.18 for the simple fact that fabric ran way way better. Not to mention that the mod updates came out faster when a new minecraft version would release. The create mod for forge vs fabric is night and day in performance.
same, whenever I use forge its like an anvil was dropped on my pc
Idk, using a few performance mods makes both sides quite equal
I switched to Fabric for the same reason. I've been wondering if it was just me and my PC not being able to handle Forge for some weird reason, but I see it's actually a common experience. Not to mention, Sodium is on Fabric and simply can't work on Forge due to its limitations anyway.
For vanilla with client sided mods like performance based mods or minimap I ditched Forge in 1.20 because it ran like dog water in comparison to Fabric, but in bigger modpacks I still choose for Forge more than Fabric
well are you using performance mods on fabric though or not? because without they are practically the same.
Great video. I appreciate that you dont paint Lex as a monster. Forge was a work of labor and love by many including him.
I think people often forget that humans are often not totally good or evil, but usually in the middle. Lex has his downsides but he's still incredibly talented
@@Cygnus_MC Talented doesn't equate to good person. Those who are skilled can still do bad things.
@destiny4963 the only thing lex is guilty of is beeing an asshole. He shouldnt have been put in public relations as he's an asshole. But beeing mean doesnt mean hes a bad person
I love your channel man, modded minecaft's history is sort of obscure to me and it's nice to have it clearly and engagingly presented :)
Thanks!! Comments like these make it all worth it
@@Cygnus_MC Of course, currently binging this series >< Loving it :3
Another thing to take note of is Rift (the modloader for 1.13). I suppose little information is known about it but from what I gathered it failed as the forge team very hostile towards them and shut them down somehow
As a player, I hate so much how there isn't a unified mod loader and basically there are multiple mod eco systems competing with each others. It is so annoying... and that's not a jab at the modders, but rather at mojang that they could've easily have made a native mod loader to standardize the mod scene long ago.
if im not mistaken, hasnt mojang been promising a native mod loader for several years at this point? or am i remembering that wrong?
@@revampedharpy09 They gave up on doing that the same year they announced it, because they're too incompetent to make something better than forge.
the best that Mojang has done has been datapacks for java edition. they basically work like those custom "only one command block" projects that added a big box of command blocks to your world that added in custom features, just all of it is written in code that basically just acts as the same thing but without having to be placed in the world. you can also use datapacks to make custom structures, biomes, dimensions, and world generation. they're powerful, but very limited compared to modding. however, they are a thing, and they're pretty cool, so i wouldn't say mojang Completely ditched "mod support". it's just not really actual modding. most people consider datapacks to be "only vanilla" because it's basically just using command blocks which are already in vanilla
Mojang’s “mod” software on bedrock is trash, so I wouldn’t expect java’s to be any better.
@@luviana_Mojang is actually updating how datapacks are written, so there's hope that it'll come out of being a laughingstock (with exceptions). I doubt it'll ever compare to a true mod loader, but it'll be interesting to see what comes of it.
Thanks for this video. I've completely forgot all of this, even though I played so much with first versions of these iconic first mods. It brings memories back to life, that were burnt after 1.7.10 version, which was the latest I've played for a long time, partially due to my obsession with gregtech mod.
Prehitoric Nature is one of the few reasons i will keep using forge. Its one of the best prehistoric creature mods but its stuck on 1.12.2
Waiting for Part 2, thank you for making this video.
Still waiting lol
It's funny that there was a coup in the discord, I'm all for it because forge definitely had its problems.
4:13 really had to hit me with the yogscast nostalgia
Well done. Still surprised how much you manage to dodge all of the drama topics (especially considering how much they can engage people into watching and sharing the content).
Can't wait for video about Fabric :)
And I'll be disappointed if a love letter to IC2 won't leak into it (just in case: this is a joke)
I dont like drama. Im here for the technicality. In this case lex plays a big role in what happened hence its still a bit more then usual. But thanks! Also i already made a loveletter to ic2 hahah
>I dont like drama. Im here for the technicality.
And that's what I appreciate personally. Especially considering the state of game's community rn. People often tend to focus on emotions rather than technical details behind problems
So sad to see Lunar leave youtube, you will be missed. 😢
WHAT?! please tell me how and why 🥺
@@zakariya2011_Mayonnaise.
sad :( we will miss you lunar
I'm sad that I will never get to see new videos released one day ago like the malware video because lunar quit. :(
who quit? this channel hasn't stopped uploading.
1:14 touhou hijack
I was expecting no one to notice the presence of Touhou in the video but I have thus far been pleasantly surprised with these comments.
neoforge should develop a translation layer for fabric / quilt mods. the unified loader would take place and it would be amazing
They tried doing that for the networking, fabric just ended the partnership after they got tired of beeing strongarmed and because the code neo was proposing "was too complex"
Idk why but I love Fabric so much, It just feels like everything is more organized
Fabric is just the least involved with drama
06:54 is the most worthy moment
@@Hervoo idk about that
I remember when I first went to the Forge discord to try and get some guidance they were quite mean and didn't try to help after watching this video the person I encountered probably was lex
o/
Good video.
Though I like to append to this.
IIRC lex was part of it in the beginning.
And also flowerchild was part of the MCF team, who created the Better then wolves mod.
For those who don't know this mod, Its basically creates predecessor, long before create was a thing. (I still miss BTW)
Also iirc both flowerchild and Eloraam were bullied out of the project.
I wasn't there when that happened but I talked to people who were.
So please take my appending with a grain of salt its been a few years I talked to this person about that.
(I am still talking to him xD)
Also forge was only for a very short time a Modloader addon.
They kinda pushed it out of the way by making a expanded clone and making both ForgeModLoader (not MinecraftForge) and Modloader compatible but slowly pushing out Modloader by adding features it did not have.
Not sure if it was a hostile takeover or if the modloader dev simply joined forge, but i remember how smooth the transition was between modloader + forge to only forge.
Always good to see you speiger! The addon to modloader part was indeed very fast but its notable that it started out as an addon. And as for the hostile takeover, it was more a case of them giving the reigns to Lex
@@Cygnus_MCthanks.
I meant if it was a hostile takeover between Modloader and ForgeModLoader.
Nothing directly to do with lex.
@@Speiger oooooooh oop i misread that oopsie
If they are leaving forge because they don’t want to support it anymore then why would they remove compatibility with the same mods? It literally just gives people more of a reason to continue to use forge.
I was ignorant of the drama behind forge's development. I just play it because it has all my favorite mods.
My pc likes forge better than fabric for some reason
I do wonder if neo forge will be like cross compatible with fabric
theres already mods that add layering for mods to be compatible with forge and fabric/quilt. they could just port sinitry connector and patchworkMC to neoforge
I see Part 1, Part 3, and Part 4 on your channel, but where is Part 2?
> First mods
> Pixel art of Reimu
Nice.
My editor had a field day
Touhou my beloved
Imagine the big forge modpacks like RLcraft, all the 9 mods don’t work on neoforge
RLCraft is a 1.12.2 pack, NeoForge doesn't even support that version. It's made for 1.20.1+, not 1.12.2.
1:14 Touhou Hijack lol
My editor had a field day
Imagine my overwhelming happiness when my first modded server can't use shaders because of the incompatibility between all of these mods and loaders.
Irritating.
Damn, I checked back in on DW20 recently and was so sad Forgecraft wasnt a thing anymore, looks like Lex is why
8:03 1.20.2+ NeoForge already isn't compatible with forge
I wish the Modding community didnt split up into multiple different mod loaders. I wish it stayed as just one mod loader. So that making modded public servers more alive.
I've been interested in making a Create Modpack Towny server, but been doubting if it would even be worth it or not if people would even join. Since some people (mainly players who joined MC in 2020s don't even know what mods are.)
imho forge is gonna die, and neoforged will take its place, like a phoenix from the ashes, cause lex's own hubris and ego beckoned his downfall
Where's part 2?
finally the giant falls
10 minutes? holy crap
What I take away from this video is some one had a attitude problem, and not willing to work with others. I am a Minecraft player, and not a developer. I know there are more Players then Developers. All I want to do is play Minecraft, and install mods I enjoy using for whatever version I enjoy playing. Its really that simple.
If Developers can't work with each other and keep mods going then at some point players will move on to other games. There is no such thing as Developers ruling over players, and telling them what they can or can not play, and anyone thinking they can Ha. Good luck with that concept because we already removed kings trying to control Our country. I don't see it working for a video game. Blizzard tried that too, and its not working for them.
Today in 2024 its ether 1.12.2, or 1.16.5 that has the most mods. The main point and fact is players/people will stay mainly in the version that has the most mods, and gives the most choice. Minecraft can keep making new versions all they want but vanilla can only be entertaining for so long till you get bored and the mods come in and make it more fun. There for it is fact that what ever version has the most choice is where Minecraft stay's alive. The question you should ask is what version of Minecraft is used for every Minecraft UA-cam video? Every video on UA-cam for Minecraft is for what version? I highly doubt most videos are for the current version. I would put money down its for what ever version has the most mods.
Forgot about 1.7.10, as it has complex mods such as Chromaticraft and Rotaricraft that aren´t on versions above it.
@@robertovidiuspinu3314 Never played that version yet. I just went to what ever version has the most mods. It was 1.12.2 for a while, but I am pretty sure the version 1.16.5 has the most or same amount of mods now. So it shifted over the years.
I'm one of those people who confused Forge and CurseForge. Oops! Anyway, as long as a loader let's me play RLCraft and explore other random mod packs, I'm happy about it.
I do actually miss Eloraam's Red Power mod
They should just make NeoForge a library for Fabric mods and end the loader war
exactly
That's a lot harder than you think which is why no such project really exists for Forge. There are some projects that can run some Fabric mods on Forge, but they're not universal. It's also why Spongeforge is stuck on 1.16.5
I really want to see the loader war end. Modpack creation has been in shambles for years because of it.
The only reason i still use forge is due to Alex’s mobs, Alex’s caves, and ice and fire. These mods are too good for me to switch at the moment.
GRAND UNIFIED MOD LOADER
Why did the anvil became a fox
Thats the real question
The community submitted designs for the new branding and the fox just stuck. As I recall, the devs didn't want to keep the anvil
It's just disappointing to see that every new modloader breaks compatibility with each other. If NeoForge eventually takes over so many great forge mods will be lost forever, even tho their authors did nothing wrong
Modloader devs are very talented. The break in compat is usually cuz they see improvements the old system cant handle. But its sad nontheless
Well if the mod loader didn't break things. Then updates will. And usually there are migration guides for updates
Hey it's that Lunar guy!
Hey its that crab guy!
Hey it's these Crab and Lunar guys!
I lump Lex in with Linus Torvolds (or however you spell it if I’m wrong). They can be condescending, but they’re often correct. You can’t baby everyone and people shouldn’t be so sensitive.
Fair fair, however he was in charge of a large project and his actions did influence forge's future. So again hes not a monster, maybe just a bit too direct for leadership
I will see for that vaskii makes his mods and then use the other one, that way I don't have to use mods from someone that hates me based of the color of my skin
6:13 based on given in the screenshot information I can't disagree with Lex. Most event systems iterate over event listeners. Please use better example.
6:20 translation for non-devs: "it will be done, but I would prefer your code because my code is dogshit". Does it counts as being rude to ownself?
Again, what you said sounds possible, but given examples doesn't show it
I think u hit the nail on the head there! As someone who has worked as support i totally understand what lex is saying, but the way he says it can be seen ad abrasive
Why would neoforge losing compatibality with forge matter? Old mods for forge already dont work on newer versions and if most of the devs for forge left, people will most likely make new mods for neoforge on newer version, where you already couldnt use the old forge mods
It means they have to rewrite their code for the new modloader in addition to changes made for the newer Minecraft version. It's added work.
@@antikommunistischaktion
People seem to forget that you basically had to rewrite for a new modloader every Minecraft update anyway, because Forge did nothing to try and ease the transition.
I recall the 1.7>1.8 transition being very rough with the transition from TESR to block models, with many authors giving up or taking a long time to update because it was so different, and Forge offered no help in easing the transition, you just had to learn the new system straight up and forget everything you knew.
Ayo what is the music of the Video
Pebble
"Pebble"
The same old story, then. Guy gets control of the biggest Thing in the space, and starts to think he's god. Man/Virgin/Loser needs to touch grass. But he probably thinks Grass is another mod loader so BURN IT FORGE FUR LYF.
But I am the god
I went on the forge discord server and immediately found multiple messages of Lex being an asshole lol
pebble
only sponsors moment
Imagine not being first
Forge is still alive and lex isn't a bad person
Agreed
22 seconds ago hmm
Bro's fast as fuck
First
The first and only
ur second@@Cygnus_MC
Shortly after 1.20.1 released, a friend group that I’m in started a modded server and I downloaded Fabric as well as all the mods needed for the server. I went to play and it didn’t work. I asked them what was wrong and they said that the server is using Forge. I actually cringed, and I don’t mean “wow bro that’s kinda cringe” I mean fully sighed and said “why” to myself. Downloaded Forge and who would’ve guessed, the server ran like complete ass and that server was probably the worse Minecraft experience I’ve had in a while.
That has everything to do with their server setup and nothing to do with Forge. I run Forge servers just fine.
I can attest to that forge is not as slow as people think. Its usually how the server is set up