Antidepressants Work (But the Withdrawal Symptoms Are Awful)
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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
- #bojack #bojackhorseman #drelliott #doctorreacts #psychiatrist #mentalhealth
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This Doctor Reacts episode of Bojack Horseman has been requested A LOT. It's Season 6, Episode 10, called "Good Damage". Its about depression and antidepressants and I talk to you about techniques like cognitive behavioural therapy, SSRIs, antidepressant withdrawals and the impact of depression on friends and family.
Let me know what you think!
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I think the writers did a really good job in making Diane's emotional abuse/neglect at the hands of her family much more nebulous compared to Bojack's, which I think is also a reason she finds it so difficult to find concrete examples of it and why she second-guesses herself about how bad it was. Bojack's parents regretted having him almost immediately, his mother repeatedly told him to his face that he ruined her life and his father subjected him to various tirades and (it's implied) slapped Beatrice around occasionally. Diane's parents wanted kids - they chose to adopt Gary - and what we see of their abuse is that her mother sniffs at her writing career and is annoyed that she doesn't come home, her father told her to let her brothers win at Boggle and blew her off when she asked about her Vietnamese heritage, and both of them let her brothers bully her. It's a different kind of crappy family dynamic, and insidious because it's less overtly abusive.
The subtlety really makes it more realistic too to make up for the lack of depth of which bojacks familial trauma had due to being a consistent major plot in the show.
This episode also reflects the narrative that artists have to suffer to make their art or that their art won't be any good if there isn't pain and strive involved. This is such bs and it is dangerous. I wish it would be understood that art needn't come from a dark place.
Yes! I remember thinking this for the longest time! It wasn’t until I was ~25 when I realized this wasn’t the case.
This episode always made me think of how people think that Van Gogh's psychosis, depression, and overall mental instability wasn't "all that bad" or was somehow "worth it" because it made him such a great artist, when in reality Van Gogh painted Starry Starry Night during a brief moment of clarity while he was looking out the window in the institution he was in, and that one of his famous self-portraits was created as a gift for his mom to reassure her that he was doing okay. Those are only two examples of the times he made something beautiful *in spite* of his suffering, not because of it, and i'm sure there are many more that i didn't mention. So yeah, whoever says that artists need to suffer to make good art can fucking choke on that belief
This is so true. I thought the same thing when I was younger and I thought I couldn't really write well because I never experienced anything horribly traumatic. Except the problem being is that I had but it didn't click that I had been through horrible things. Turns out my writing just wasn't good yet. I really hope this line of thinking changes. It's so detrimental to people's health. I suffered without even realizing I was suffering.
The reality is creativity comes from strong emotions so it's true in a sense that being miserable can spark creativity but so can joy
And mostly being miserable makes it hard to do anything, from painting to getting dressed. If you use all your spoons getting dressed, how can you possibly make art?
So much love to the team behind Bojack for never making a joke about Diane's weight gain or portraying it negatively. Great analysis as always 💕
And it's really interesting to see weight gain as a part of positive character development!
And she stayed heavy and she utterly rocked that blue dress in Nice While It Lasted
@@LauraGrrrr5370 definitely one of my favourite looks of her from the series, think her appearance changed the most through the series (unless you count flashback bojack, in which case its him)
I was so underweight when my depression was at its worst, I was barely over 100lbs. When I started taking antidepressants and seeing a therapist, I gradually gained 50lbs. And it was one of the best things that ever happened to me. I call it my happy fat. I agree, they handled it so well, and it's so common for depressed people to gain weight as they recover.
12:40 is my favourite moment in the whole show. This video cuts the clip slightly early but that interaction between Diane and her character never fails to make me cry. The visual of Ivy glowing while Diane turns more and more into a scribble breaks my heart everytime.
Diane: It's not that easy
Ivy:... Yeah, I know... but wouldnt it be nice if it was?
It is a great visual interaction
also my tear jerk moment for the ep
I find Diane and Princess Carolyn's conversation at the end of Good Damage to be the other side of the coin to Todd and BoJack's from It's You (Season 3, Episode 10) - namely, that BoJack is all the things that are wrong with him. Both characters use their history of trauma as tools to avoid having to be responsible for their own happiness, often at the expense of the happiness of other people in their lives. In The Face of Depression (Season 6, Episode 7), Diane confesses to BoJack a pretty similar sentiment to what he expressed to her prior to going into rehab. They're both concerned that after addressing their most obvious struggles (depression, substance abuse, anxiety), they'll still find themselves as terrible, empty people, just without excuses. And this scares them away from wanting to take accountability to seek help. Good Damage gives us a strong indication that Diane is going to be able to continue to work on her own mental health and happiness when her depression is no longer consuming all of her mental and emotional bandwidth.
I've had people tell me I'm creative because of my mental illness. Nah, I'm not. I'm creative because of who I am. My illness doesn't define me. It's insulting, to be honest. Like you're not creative when you're not sick, so just accept it! But when I'm experiencing symptoms the creativity becomes muddled. I hate when people perpetuate the idea that mental illness makes you a good person. No, YOU make you a good person.
I'm writing a paper on Diane and her relationship with depression at the moment and oh my god this video could not have come out at a better time
I’m interested in reading when you finish the paper!
@@QueenCloveroftheice me too me too !!!! (if u want to share it ofc)
i love how they made diane’s weight gain something that……..just happens. she ends the series heavier AND happier
Does that mean I have to gain weight to be happy?
13:25 -14:01 This was my favorite part of the episode. Diane's viewing her damage as an equivalent exchange (insert Fullmetal Alchemist joke here). She was deprived of a good childhood because of her abusive family, so she feels there has to be good directly connected to the bad childhood she got instead so its existence is justified. She wants her damage to have a reason to be there instead of just being there. Otherwise, Diane is left with no choice but to accept a cruel reality: that something as simple as the whim of a single jerk or group of jerks with no special reason for being that way can derail someone's entire life. That's the kind of realization that can send someone into a nihilistic doom spiral. "Why bother striving for anything if it can all be ruined so easily? Why act as though anything matters?" Fortunately, Princess Carolyn is there to stop Diane from getting to that point. By encouraging Diane to write Ivy Tran: Food Court Detective, she encourages her to mourn the life she could've had and attain closure for it while still making little girls like her feel less alone. Ivy Tran gets to be for little girls what Horsin' Around was for Diane: a home that helps them survive their sad childhoods. Just like BoJack, millions of people will be better off for having known Diane.
I was kinda bummed out that he skipped on princess Carolyn’s reply. This episode and Diane’s speech and creative pressure at the end was exactly something I experienced and still do (but better now). It was such a comforting affirmation that something simple and childish and light could provide that respite from a hard life or help those in the same situation.
“Maybe this book will do that too” is something Diane missed. While she so desperately wanted to articulate her trauma and childhood in a way to do good, she didn’t notice that Horsin’ Around, a lighthearted family sitcom, was what pulled her through her home life. It wasn’t something serious or a deep autobiography, it was a fun tv show. I felt like my head had been pulled out of tar when I heard and understood that
Story Time: And maybe it wasn't my place to step in, but... I was having a conversation with an anti-therapy/anti-pharma person. They confessed that they suffered from anxiety and depression and strictly avoided therapy and drugs because it made them feel "like they weren't the same person." I explained that that makes sense. What many of us consider "us" is happening in the brain, depression and anxiety happens in the brain, and if depression and axiety has always been a part of you, you literally are becoming a different person. Your personality whether your mental health is based on a trauma responce or not includes everything that's going on with you. And if all you can remember is the you with anxiety and depression, you are about to find out who you are without it, and you might not recognize it. I asked if they felt better with therapy and drugs, and they admitted they did. I asked did they like being the person on drugs and therapy, or the person stressed and deflated all the time. They admitted the former.
I'm not sure how permenant this change of mind was for them, but she said, that if her doctors explained it to them this way instead of dismissing her concerns, they might have never gone off the drugs or stopped going to therapy. This conversation was constantly going through my mind as I was watching this episode. I was able to predict what was going to happen, because I was able to have that conversation with someone going through something similar.
To any writers out there looking for their Ivy Tran, she comes to you not vice versa. I came up with the idea for the story I am writing now when I was in the pits of depression but could only get it coherently on paper with goofberries
Yes! My original counsellor found it hard to understand my depression because I had no trauma (I actually did have trauma but didn't recognise it at the time) and also thought I was positive because I said I had had a good life (which was just acknowledging privilege and recognising others around me had to go through hardships I hadn't). Also when I eventually told her I was suicidal just to get her to take me seriously she asked why I felt that way. There was no reason other than I was ill! I know this is not the case for everyone but at that point in my life my depression was very much biological rather than environmental (and at least somewhat probably linked to undiagnosed ADHD). She did not seem to get that at all.
I can relate so hard
It's wild anyone would think it couldn't come from not having trauma. So many women report terrible mental health from PMS. I will literally get a day where I think I have no friends and I'm bad at everything and suck at my job and that no one likes me and it's literally just my period. If such a minor, completely natural, hormonal change can make such a huge difference it's no wonder that people could have all sorts of reasons for poor mental health.
The "trauma hunting" tendencies of many therapists is one of the reasons I finally decided to pursue an ASD diagnosis. Though I was able to get something out of therapy, I always felt there was a huge part of me that was never addressed and always being explained away with trauma. And what trauma I have had is mostly directly from my being Autistic anyway. It's still been difficult to find a therapist though who can adequately address my particular needs.
It just hit me that Diane wants to write her trauma book because of her low self-esteem and wish for validation - writing that book basically lays bare her deepest hurts and exposes her, makes her intensely vulnerable, something she has completely refused to be. To do that and be validated by readers (the way a writer who writes those sorts of things pretty much always is) would validate her experiences of being abused and validate her worth.
This is probably also the exact reason she CAN’T write that book, no matter how much she tries.
I cried during this episode so much, because I could relate to Diane completely. I felt exactly the same way even with the writing part. I wrote the best poems when I was depressed and when I felt better I questioned whether I should stop taking my pills to be more creative again. My mum always had to remind me how horrible I felt and that it's not worth it. I felt worthless when I was depressed but even long after I started taking my meds. I also didn't go through any trauma, we just have depression in my family, so when my first psychiatrist tried to get to the trauma that "I must've experienced", it made me feel invalidated and even more like an imposter, because I felt like I had no reason to be depressed. Needless to say I had to change psychiatrists a couple of times to find one who didn't push trauma on me and understood there doesn't need to be any trauma for a person to suffer from depression. I am doing so much better now but it took many many years on meds to get where I am today. Thanks for making these videos, they are so helpful for many people!
I think you're the first health care professional (or maybe person) I've heard in my life say that sometimes trauma doesn't have an upside or give someone meaning, that it just sucks. I already know this but it's so validating to hear ❤️ thank you
ya like breaking a bone. It doesn't have any meaning and your joint might be kind of messed up forever but it doesn't have to ruin your whole life. There doesn't always need to be a purpose it can just be something that happened.
Yeah. I don't and never did need my own mental health issues to be a lesson to be learned or part of my growth.
Yes, I was once assessed by a psychiatrist and he said "trauma?" as he was ticking boxes. I was the rudest, most intrusive question I’ve ever heard, and had nothing to do with my situation
I knew studying mental health nursing would come in clutch at some point! 😂 Fluoxetine, citalopram, and sertraline come to mind on the top of my head
I started singing the song from Crazy Ex-Girlfriend when I read your comment lol
@@QueenCloveroftheice 😂😂😂 love it
It took this video for me to realize in the montage, Diane passes by a rat race.
I can totally relate to the idea of believing in good damage. Turning the shit you went through when you were younger into something positive but it you can never do so, so you still feel like you're stuck with all that damage.
It's a bit off topic but I loved how Diane's weight gain was portrayed in the show. People say fatphobia isn't an issue or even doesn't exist when it's a fact that getting fat is so vilified in our society A LOT of people would rather refuse medication than risk putting on weight. By the end of the show I couldn't believe they actually dared to not only increase her size when she started treatment but made her body stay like that for good. It's difficult to explain but I think it's because of this weird attitude towards getting fat that mainstream media maintains. On the one hand, getting fat is the worst thing but on the other hand, denying yourself good things out of fear of getting fat is just as bad. As if that fear was utterly ridiculous and entirely unfounded.
So in a typical narrative Diane would hesitate to start treatment like she did, quoting the fact that in the past medication made her put on weight. And Guy would try to convince her it doesn't matter because frankly what is some weight-gain compared to improved mental health? And than DIane would start taking meds and stay as thin as she was before. Because in a typical narrative doesn't allow for a weight gain in a story about improvement. As if fat body was cancelling out every other good thing. Which I guess for many people it does.
Yep. A writer, who was a teacher a few decades ago, tried to prove a point by asking her college class if they would choose to have a chronic disease if it meant they would stay thin the rest of their life thinking they wouldn't choose the illness ... wasn't she surprised.
I wasn't surprised 🙄
@@lkf8799 Yeah, not surprised either. Surprised anyone expected a different outcome.
fatphobia is WILD and only getting more and more out of control with the internet. I'm now seeing so many people just worried about peoples "health" and how they don't wanna date someone who will die young. It's like don't you know fat people? I know so many people who were overweight for the large portion of their adulthood and they all have lived normal length lives. Maybe it made a difference between living to 87 vs. living to 92 but people are acting like overweight people are up and dying at 55 years old or some bs.
@@new0news Oh, don't even let me start on discusting attempts to frame fatphobia as a concern for anyone's health :/ Firstly, why does a person even needs to be healthy to be deserving of basic respect. Secondly, sorry, you can't tell person's health by their appearance. Thirdly, if fat person has health issues how do you know how much of that is due to fat alone, how much due to other issues, and how much due to, say, fear of medication that can make them put on weight even more? Or the fact that a medical professional refused treatment until they lose weight? Or unhealthy eating habits that they picked up in desperate attempt to lose weight at all cost? Or just pure goddamned stress caused by being treated like garbage?
@@bialyniawell, you can tell if someone’s unhealthy by their appearance sometimes. You just can’t tell if someone is healthy purely by their appearance
One time a while back my pharmacy somehow kept forgetting to refill one of my meds even though I’d ask them daily. I went two weeks without it and it was horrible. Finally my mom (who uses the same pharmacy) went in person while picking up her own meds and told them how miserable I was.
They refilled it 10 mins later. They had it the whole time while I was changing my sheets every other night from sweating so much and had insomnia. My doctor is still baffled how it happened because he called them too!
Why didn't you go down to the pharmacy and pick them up?
@@joshuamc5566 Cerebral palsy
@@joshuamc5566 Unfortunately, my cerebral palsy doesn’t let me do that. Plus, the pharmacy kept saying they didn’t have them. 🙃
@@joshuamc5566 Cerebral palsy.
@@joshuamc5566 … I have c erebral palsy and the pharmacy kept saying they didn’t have them.
That conversation between Diane and Princess Carolyn is my favourite moment in the series.
Thanks for covering this episode! It was great to hear your thoughts on it. Also good to hear that not everything in therapy needs to be based on trauma. And glad to know my therapist isn't trauma hunting, sad that others do. Guy is such a good boyfriend for Diane, I love him. This episode hit me a lot cause I thought I needed my trauma to make some art out of it to make it meaningful, but it doesn't. Trauma is just trauma, and mental illness can happen with or without trauma.
I hope to see you react to the first few s6 eps of Bojack, especially the ones that feature Dr. Champ
I’ll do you one better
🎶 Flu-oxetine, flu-oxetine 🎶
🎶 Par-oxetine, par-oxetine 🎶
🎶 cit-alopram, cit-alopram 🎶
🎶 Take once A Day! 🎶
Yaaaas (love crazy ex)
@@DoctorElliottCarthy then react to the entire series
(Please 🥺)
Mirtazapine
This episode is what got me to finally start antidepressants and they have helped a lot.
Thank you so much for covering this doctor! Its a hard one for me to really get into how much it means as its rather emotionally taxing to talk about, but ya thank you! ❤
Antidepressants I’ve been prescribed include citalopram, escitalopram, abilify/lamotrigine/seroquel/latuda (more mood stabilizers but ya know), sertraline, and effexor before settling on a combo of bupropion + fluoxetine (+ a couple other meds) which I’ve been on for like 7 years without changes-so don’t give up my friends!! It takes a lot of trial and error but I’ve been stable on my current regimen now for longer than I had to spend experimenting-life is good! Don’t let fear-mongering about meds hold you back, if a med isn’t working for you after 3-6 weeks then you have more info and can just discontinue it, it won’t fuck you up forever.
Dr. Carthy, I love when you speak about Bojack. I am ALWAYS here for it.
When I was in college we used to tell the joke, "why does it take 4 weeks for antidepressants to kick in? Because that's how long it takes to get over the meeting with your psychiatrist. " (If you wonder how mental health care is in the US, this was a pretty much universally understood joke regardless of demographic.) I remember i did learn from one pill shrink that antidepressants lower your alcohol tolerance. He was explaining it to me and then mentioned that maybe taking and paying for antidepressants and therapy only to drink a depressant wasn't such a smart idea. (Psychiatrists must love dumb college students. How many times did he have to explain that in his career?) Oh, I only know brand names but Effexor, Paxil, Celexa, Prozac, Zoloft, Lexapro.
Thank you for the amazing videos, I am always glad when they pop up in my feed. Diane trying to find meaning in her trauma and feeling like she had to use it for something good really resonated with me. I am still somewhat coming to terms with bad things somes just being bad. It was really nice to have some more input onto this episode. :)
what u said at 12:02 was so good, thank you. i think loved ones of ppl with mental illnesses can struggle, because we want to support, we want to do it right... AND sometimes providing that support can be hard. but then you can feel guilty for thinking it's hard, or for "making it about you." it's a strange mix of emotions. all of which to say, i think loved ones of people with mental illnesses need to make sure they have a support network, too.
I'm on antidepressants, have been for a while now and although my GP often asks me if I want to start weaning off them I keep telling him no as the stressors in my life that made my depression worse are still there. Psychotherapy isn't really an option in New Zealand, I got 4 funded appointments with a counsellor when I was at my worst, but beyond that, I'd have to pay for it myself and I'm barely paying my bills as it is.
I'm blessed in that I have a cat who checks up on me though, especially if she thinks I'm up too late at night. I've started calling her my emotional support animal and I'll fight the idea of giving her up for the sake of housing.
Please never stop making Bojack content, I love it sm
Dude, I'm only in the fifth minute of your video but I already appreciate so much your thoroughness and adherence to empiric evidence, while not disregarding the wider on going debates in the scientific-medical-academic community. I really really really appreciate that. Thank you!!!!
Venlafaxine, bupropion, Lexapro, Fluoxetine, duloxetine 👍
👍
This episode never ceases to resonate so powerfully with myself. I myself am diagnosed of primarily obsessive OCD, and just like the books tell, it easily gets comorbid with depression. I always tell friends and my own treating physicians that the obsessive thoughts just exhaust my capacity to be positive.
I remember after starting to take fluoxetine and undergo cognitive-behavioural thearpy, I gradually became the person I knew I could be, and I felt like the horribly aggresive hold obsession and depression had on me were lifted off and I am now usually considered a cheery person, whereas before that I had been spiraling into darkness so slow but consistently that me having "a black cloud over my head" became a sort of inside-joke among my friends. Yet, the realization that all that trauma and anxiety one has endured before just does not have any concrete meaning at all, and it's just sort of there... can be so frustrating and even angering... But once that initial grief is dealt with (you have to say goodbye to your idealized suffering self), it can be absolutely freeing. I now consider myself an adherent of Absurdism (à la Albert Camus), and even though it may seem just nihilist at first glance, it just makes me see the world with wonder and try to enjoy all that I can get for myself in this big, incomprehensible, absurd world where we have no actual control of almost anything (too bad, OCD, too bad...).
Whenever I see this episode of Bojack Horseman and I see how Diane ends up happier, and accompanied by her wonderful significant other... I feel so relieved for her, and seeing myself in her, I cannot help but feel relief for myself, gratitude for my own Guy (my husband, whom I absolute love and who has endured so much by helping me) and for the wonderful professionals I have the privilege of counting on and for living in an age where antidepressants, even with their side-effects and limitations, have contributed to actually save my life.
Prozac, Zoloft, wellbutrin, trazodone, effexor, celexa, buspar, lamictal (I dont if that counts since it’s a mood stabilizer), abilify (I don’t know if that counts since it’s an atypical antipsychotic)
You're just showing off now 😉
This is very true. Had a call with a relative where she told us that trauma is there to make you stronger. It is like a stumbling block or a hurdle to get over. (and then told us we were manipulating her by informing her that her brother abused us, but this is besides the point). I HATE this narrative. It makes me feel like all of my suffering and crying and hopelessness was irrelevant so long as I "Got stronger" From it. I did NOT get stronger. I live every day afraid to leave our house, holding tightly to my boyfriend, because I think everything will be taken away from me and I will be hurt again. I have cried myself asleep because I am afraid our abuser will somehow find us because we know he knows what city we are near. I have felt CRAZY for that because this is not a logical thing to think!
My childhood was stolen from me. I was hurt and then told it was all my fault. and NONE of that was so I could be a "strong person" later in life. it just hurt and I am trying so hard to heal but it is like drowning in quicksand. I understand that some people feel this way. My boyfriend smiles at his scars because he knows he overcame the people who hurt him. But it makes me feel so much worse for still being *bad* and not "strong". -- Wynn // Trauma holder
I'm really loving this video and learning more about this. My doctors never explained to me how withdrawals with the medication worked which is especially odd because I was in a rehab at the time. You'd think they'd explain that to you but they didn't but luckily my dad told me about them when I updated him on what I was on. But I'm so bad at taking medication after taking it as prescribed for a few months I just stopped taking it and got these horrible brain jolts or something. It felt like my brain and eyes were shaking. It was horrible. 0/10 never again. Now I just take it with my Keppra that I have to take so now I have no excuses to forget.
5:20 to 5:50 - I think I get what they're going for here. What they're referring to when Diane talks about pottery put back together with gold is kintsugi, and it's kind of interesting how she took the meaning of that to be "good damage", because in Japan, that's not what kintsugi represents. It represents that damage, even shattering damage, doesn't destroy you entirely. The bowl can still be a bowl, with help. In a way, it's like how my meds help me get myself back together mentally after bad things that have happened. I think what the show is aiming for is showing how Diane's mind works. She doesn't see the bowl put back together with gold as the bowl being helped by gold, she instead focuses on the fact that it was damaged previously. She wants to acknowledge her pain and abuse, yet she can't, because she hesitates to validate her own feelings and experiences. Instead she views herself as a repaired bowl that is stronger for having been broken, and while it's true some kintsugi pottery pieces are stronger than their originals, that's actually not true for the majority of them. Many kintsugi pieces are just restored to being as good as they were prior to breaking. Being hurt didn't make Diane better or stronger... but it says a lot about her as a person that she focuses on the minority of kintsugi pieces that are better for having been damaged instead of admitting maybe, damage didn't make her stronger or weaker, it just hurt.
Acknowledging you're hurt is scary. It's not just about the fact her abuse is harder for her to view as valid. It's an intimidating thing to admit that, like about 20% of kintsugi pieces, being hurt may have left you worse off than before you were hurt, less stable, less capable of dealing with heavy things. Once you've admitted that, even to yourself, it can feel like you've admitted to failing (why aren't you in the 20% of kintsugi that are stronger for having been broken? is it something you did? are you not trying hard enough?). That much emotional vulnerability is incredibly difficult. On the other side of things, telling yourself you're stronger for what happened to you gives you a sense of power over it. That way, you came out on top, you succeeded, you're victorious. It's a line of thinking that doesn't acknowledge that 1., you should never have been put in the battle in the first place and 2., survival is a form of victory. You're here and that is in and of itself a great thing. But because she doesn't see it that way, she cannot accept that maybe, she's in the 60% of kintsugi that is no better or worse for having been hurt and is simply here. The idea things don't happen for a reason, they just happen? A lot of people cannot deal with that. So you tell yourself instead that the trauma made you better. It's good damage. It's a lie, obviously, but it's a self-soothing lie, and I don't think any less of Diane for telling herself that. We all go through a process as we work towards healing and sometimes a step of that process is denial. It took my dad decades before he admitted that his pain didn't make him his best self, it just made him miserable. Mental health is a struggle.
As someone with treatment resistant depression I've already been on over 5 different antidepressant medications and I have a list:
1. Escitalopram
2. Trazodone
3. Sertraline
4. Fluoxetine
5. Bupropion
6. Duloxetine
7. Amitriptyline (actually responded well to this one, however it only lasted a little over a year)
8. Clomipramine (nothing yet but it's early)
I live for your analysis of bojack horseman
Check out Johnny2Cellos. He does really good analysis videos on the show. Also the channel Imon_Snow did amazing reaction videos to the series and talk 15-30min after. So good.
I wish my doctor had told me about withdrawal symptoms if going off Zoloft, It was awful. Also I must point, another important reason why many people resist to medication is way simpler than any prejudice: it's monetary. This kind of meds are extremely expensive, not everyone has access to this kind of stuff. And although I can admit antidepressants had helped me a lot, there is also a huge money-driven industry behind them, it would be naive to trust this pharmaceutical industries because the main interest of them is not the well being of people, it's just money. So I do believe everything involving meds must always be taken with a pinch of salt.
Bojack season 6 has some of the hardest most real moments I've seen in a show. I really hope to one day hear your thoughts of "The View From Halfway Down"
I remember seeing that episode and having to walk away and digest. And after climbing the existential hill that it caused it ended up being my favorite episode of the whole show. Anyway, love the content, have a great day 🤭
- I thought that little vid of her singing and happy on the pills were after being on them a while as she is shown to have gained weight which was from a common side affect of many anti depressants. wasn't her weight gain supposed to be from the meds or did I misread that part of the show? I thought it was good of them to show one of the issues that girls have with addressing mental health, which is a lot of hte meds can make you blow up a bit as it were.
Can immediately name venlafaxine, fluoxetine, and sertraline on account of having been there, done that, didn’t work for me. I had the wildly good fortune of having a psychiatrist who realized how important it was to me to be able to think clear. He put me on methylphenidate (adhd meds) and that’s been an absolute lifesaver for me, no antidepressants, no depressions.
I’m currently getting back on an ssri (citalopram) after stopping sertraline when I started dexamfetamine for adhd, then eventually realised I need it for help with anxiety and now I am currently experiencing both forms of insomnia you mentioned. I also have had my ADHD traits worsened since to start up citalopram I’ve had to stop vyvanse as starting them so close together was blurring the picture around side effects. So basically I’m not having my adhd treated, not sleeping well, struggling to get out of bed, eat and maintain basic daily tasks this shit sucks. It’s been 18 days and I’ve noticed improvements but having o change to a nighttime dose the last couple days has made it feel even worse ugh.
Also to name 4 antidepressants
Sertraline, Citalopram, Venlafaxine & Mirtazapine.
interestingly enough, when I had a longer anxious period, I had a lot of issues with thoughts, but for me, they were far too disorganized to even be recognized as voices, but instead, to me, just felt like loud static in my head. Really annoying and really exhausting to deal with.
the thing w ssri's and weight gain imo though is just that doctors need to listen to patients reporting those side effects
I had a really fast metabolism my whole life, was underweight literally forever and doctors trying to put me on weight gain diets as a kid had done absolutely nothing
after starting ssri's, I gained about 60-70lbs in about a year, taking me from being underweight straight to being overweight. the appetite change was horrendous too, really quickly after eating I'd be so hungry again that it was painful, when I tried dieting nothing happened either
the doctor I told this to immediately blew me off and told me that they don't cause weight gain at all and basically that it was just my own fault
You should react to the episodes "the view from halfway down" and "the Amelia Earhart story" and also "the showstopper" its amazing how every episode has some underlying story or meaning relating to real life
SSRIs: Lexapro (escitalopram), Paroxetine, Fluoxetine
SNRI: Pristiq (Desvenlafaxine)
Wellbutrin (Bupropion) - NDRI (I had to look that 1 up)
I'm bipolar but, fortunately for me, I'm one of the lucky ones who has been hypomanic for the past 30 years. However, I still remember my depressive days. Fortunately, I found an excellent psychiatrist who put me on tricyclics. (BTW, she also caught my stroke.) Tricyclics were the best they had back in the early 80s. At least they weren't MAOIs. They worked wonderfully. Their only drawback was my weight ballooned up to 265 pounds. I craved a pound of chocolate every day. The darker the better. I recently learned dark chocolate has slight mood stabilizing effects.
My doc and I didn't like the weight gain. I was switched to Prozac right after it came out. IMHO it didn't work as well as the old tricyclics. I'd cheerfully saw on my wrist with a dull blade. I also kept the excess weight. It stuck with me until I caught some random bug that was going around and was in bed for a week. I also didn't take my meds. I remembered from my stroke hospitalization that after going without my antidepressants for a week I should have felt depressed. Yet I didn't. Trust me, depression is a miserable sickness. Still, I thought I'd wait and see if I got any weepy spells. I never did. The excess weight also melted away.
(I was also diagnosed with ADHD when I was 29. So my problems are bipolar, ADHD and organic.)
I still talk a mile a minute which is a clear trait of manics. I'm currently on a drug called Abilify. It took my psychiatrist three full sessions to talk me into giving it a try. Over the years I had terrible experiences with GPs who thought they were qualified to treat psych disorders. That's one of the hazards of our broken heath care system here in the US. I had terrible reactions to most of the antipsychotics I was given. Things like itching, drooling, falling down stairs, etc. Anyway, Abilify works beautifully although I think it does make weight loss a bit tougher. But maybe that's just me.
My biggest problem now is my psychiatrist retired and left his practice to a nurse practitioner. I loathe that woman. She's pushy, tells me I'm lying when I report a new symptom, and so on. I wish there was someone else around here I could see for my Abilify and Vyvanse. As things are I say as little as possible to her.
abilify is amazing. it's the only drug that ever worked for me, unfortunately i had to discontinue it due to being one of the unlucky few who developed tardive dyskinesia as a side effect. gone through a lot of drugs since then and never found anything that helped like abilify did.
that thing describing mending cracked bowls with gold is called kitsungi which is a japanese idea
Sertraline, mirtazipine, trimipramine, trazadone, clomipramine, duloxetine, amytriptilyne, vortioxitine, buspirone, escitalopram, fluoxetine, venlaflaxine, citalopram,
And they’re just the ones i’ve been on in my lifetime🤦🏻♀️😂
Fab video. You relate to your audience so well.
Such much love 🌟💘
I just wonder if therapy will 'fix' my depression and anxiety or if meds are something I should be looking into. I started therapy only a couple months ago
Trintellex, fluoxetine, Effexor, and sertraline. I figured I'd name some of the antidepressants I've personally taken. I know I'm mixing the brand and generic names, I just remember what I took. Worst part is withdrawal. It feels like my body is buzzing while walking through a bouncy house.
"Can you name three antidepressants?"
Oh please, I've watched Crazy Ex-Girlfriend way too many times. Fluoxetine, fluoxetine, paroxetine, paroxetine, citalopram, citalopram!
Sertraline, fluoxetina, Escitalopram, citalopram
👍
I might haveto start watching this show. Let me give the antidepressants a go: wellbutrin, Lexapro, Prozac and Luvox ( some of these are older ones, I know)
0:46 Fluoxetine (was changed by my general practioner because of my young age (16) and lack of studies in that group), Sertraline (a disaster. Took it in the morning like told and went to school, held a book a presentation while "high" and got really sick), Mirtazapine (made me sleepy and gain weight. hated that and contributed with others factors that I stopped treatment), Escitalopram (after al longer time without any. Made me loose some weight and ended my amenorrhea. Hate the second, but live with it and still take it) . Antidepressants I had, in that order.
I've had added Quetiapine recently, but rather for the obsessive ruminations and other symptoms than the depression. Or I don't quite know, because my depression got much worse and new symptoms (mentioned extreme ruminations, but also heavy dissociations) popped up and I know it is used sometimes to treat severe depressions whilst in fact an antipsychotic. (Also, I did loose wight again, contrary to what many people experience, but with my comorbid eating disorder, things work different. Because I really felt a raise in appetite, but... not going into details)
I'm so curious about that episode, I have an over 20 year long experience in the matter....
Aaaand yes, so painfully relatable.
escitalopram, sertraline, quetiapine, fluoxetine... etc, everything that does't work for me
My brain was so adapted to sleeping normally with anxiety that when I started SSRIs I couldn't sleep at all.
SSRI,s SNRIS, SNDRIS, MAO inhibitors, trycyclic antidepressants and on and on and on. You could argue opioids are antidepressants. Recent studies have shown buprenorphine as a great antidepressant, by increasing glutamate (I think that's the pharmakodynamics).
I'd love if you reacted to the second to last episode of the show, it's called The View From Halfway Down and it goes through what bojacks brain conjures as he's dying and it's such an powerful episode
YES I’ve been waiting for this one. def one of the most hard hitting bojack episodes
Three antidepressants? Fluoxetine, paroxetine, citalopram (take once a day, may cause dry mouth). And Sertraline, which I had to take for years because we all thought my autism was OCD.
Our lawyers won't let us say brand names.😁.
Pills don't work well for me, they make me feel empty like a robot without emotions.
SO HERE ARE MY TOP THREE NATURAL ANTI-DEPRESSANTS :
1 ) My mom, she's the greatest woma the earth's ever known.
2 ) My cats, they are dumb babies who don't know what shadows are but they make me feel loved, when i feel bad they always jump in mu lap to hug me
3 ) Potatoes. I don't know how to explain it but i feel safe when i eat them. It doesn't make me happy to eat them but i feel... comforted, it helps me calm down and stay focused
Bupropion, citalopram and fluoxetin. (But I cheated and looked in my medicine cabinet) And no, my doctor did not go through the side effects/withdrawal symptoms of them, which made it very concerning when I got muscle twitches from one if them and I had to call a nurse 😅
I think you're great. I wish there were more knowledgeable people like you within the NHS and access to good help was easier for people struggling.
This episode made me think of the one time a (new) psychiatrist that I Fucking Hate Now literally kicked me off of several of my medications against my strong protest, because I was on Remeron, which is considered really strong on its own.
I got started on Zoloft when I was 16, got Wellbutrin when I was... Idk 18 or 19 when I went through the divorce of my mom and stepdad. The divorce ofy mom and bio dad really fucked me up when I was a kid, so being abandoned by yet another male figure in my life sent me on a downward spiral, that nearly ended with me self-terminating when I was almost 21. That's when I got sent to a mental ward and put on the Remeron.
It helped, but similar to Diane, I blew up in weight. It bothered me, but it was worth it to get my life back on track. But then when I got my life together and moved to another city halfway across the US, my new psychiatrist was like, "THREE medications??? Haha, no, you only need one" and refused to refill the other two despite me saying I was REALLY uncomfortable with that.
I am lucky I didn't spiral as bad as Diane did. I do think it was partially because Remeron IS really good at what it does, but I realized I had undiagnosed ADHD that the Wellbutrin helped me out with and that I was suffering from a lot worse afterwards. I basically spent 2 years of my life suffering with that because the medication I didn't even know helped with it had been snatched away from me.
That woman is a horrible doctor and I hope she left the profession before she actually DOES hurt someone (which she likely DID because she rather unceremoniously got the boot only a few months into our meetings). She also weight shamed me, and when I told her I was starting to walk more to help with it, she just told me that my solution was only acceptable for "older people" and tried pushing me to do some high intensity stuff that I super wasn't interested in. So I just stopped exercising all together. I hate that woman, I'm sorry, I just needed to vent about it.
As a *mentally stable* human, I will proudly name all the psych meds I know:
SSRI
-lexapro
-Prozac
-Zoloft
SNRI
-Effexor
Other
-lamotrigine
-lithium
-Abilify
-Seroquel
-hydroxyzine
-gabapentin
And of course the OG, booty juice.
I’m so mad I can’t name antidepressants but I can name almost all mood stabilizer medications 😭✋
My doctor did not warn me about venlafaxine withdrawals and had me switch directly from venlafaxine 280mg to lexapro. I thought I was dying for a couple weeks lmao
Wellbutrin, zoloft(sertraline), prozac and for a bonus round for ADHD Strattera and for bipolar(but sometimes also diabetic nerve pain) gabapentin
More than 3 antidepressants? I got this. I've been on and off them since age 16 (25 now). They work for me for a while, then lose their effectiveness, so I have to switch. Celexa, Zoloft, Cymbalta, and currently Pristiq (all generic versions because insurance is a scam and medicine is expensive)
citalopram, sertraline and fluoxetine!!
Antidepressants I have been on throughout the years...
-Prozac, Lamictal, Lexapro, Bupropion
(These were specifically diagnosed for my bipolar and BPD. Personally, Lamictal works best for me but it really all comes down to the individual. For instance, my best friend said Prozac was her go-to, meanwhile it made me feel like a zombie.)
fluoxetine, paroxetine, venlafaxine, desvenlafaxine, amitriptylline, etc etc
So if your client was bojack horseman. How would you help him? Maybe an idea for a final recap?
Wellbutrin, Cymbalta, Zoloft, Pristiq, Prozac
This video came at the perfect time, i've recently started on sertraline (14 days) so i'm just waiting for it to work
for the 3 antidepressants: Prozac, Zoloft and Paxil being Fluoxetine, Sertraline and Paroxetine respectively
I know this because my boyfriend has had to go on all three slowly after 3 month trial runs with each med, my girlfriend (yes, we are poly) thankfully has only had to use one being Sertraline
Seeing the highs and lows of a close person adapting to a new med is both anxiety inducing and morbidly fascinating in its own right
Prozac, Cymbalta, Paxil. Not sure, but I’m curious what you’d think about the movie Prozac Nation with Christina Ricci. Sorry, lost track. Great episode on a great episode on Bojack, the very few and thoughtful look at mental health in a dark comedy.
Fellow therapist here. I notice you use CBT as an example a lot. Do you have any thoughts on some more recent information that suggest CBT might actually reward dysfunction? The idea is that by relieving dysfunction so quickly the dopamine of that relief rewards the initial dysfunction because you want the relief. I was turned around by an exposure based course that suggests that distress tolerance in the face of negative stimuli is a more effective way of treatment due to it not rewarding stress with relief but instead tolerating stress for longer periods of time making it more bearable. Just curious because I love your content and sometimes use examples of yours in sessions.
Ive been on Prozac for the past two years so this episode should be interesting
Fluoxetine, Citalapram, Sertraline, aaaand… uummm… uhh… Lithium Salts? Does that count? :P
I love this episode. I love it so much for facing the myth that we need to suffer to be creative, the myth that we need to put aside the art we actually enjoy creating to make “important” art, the myth that weight gain is inherently unhealthy and can never be a sign of *improved* health, and so many other destructive ideas widely internalized in our society, even amongst those of us who rationally “know better”.
And Amy Tran: Food Court Detective, like Birthday Dad, actually sounds really genuinely fun and like something I’d enjoy if it existed. :D
The anti-depressant montage I took to be a Mentos parody. I also took away from this is that the damage we receive as we grow up does not make us special individually
My doctor explained nothing about venlafaxine! She said "if you don't like it you can just come off" and that's it
SSRIs are known to affect digestion in a number of ways. Specifically, enteric serotonergic neurons are partially responsible for the mobility in the gut and are affected by SSRI medications. The same class of drugs is actually used to help with digestive issues in some patients but how the drug affects a patient comes down to a number of factors. In my own personal experience, SSRIs slow down digestion to the point where I had to learn all of the information that I just typed and then eventually make a choice as to whether I preferred being happy or being able to poop. In my place, what would you have chosen?
My first experience with therapy was via CAHMS and on the last session I had, the woman i'd been seeing told me that I was fine, that I had no problem. Thanks, but still wanting to step in front of a train... I guess that's normal?
Because of her, I didn't seek out any therapy or medication for years because I was so sure I'd be dismissed. And because at least part of my issues stemmed from CSA, it just kept getting worse and worse inside my head. So yeah. Can definitely attest to the damage bad therapy can cause
Almost the same thing happened to me! When I was in highschool my pediatrician sent me to a psychiatrist who basically said I didn't look or act depressed because of my high IQ and over-expressiveness (which turned out to be because of autism). I then proceeded to be the most suicidal I've ever been, and eventually developed disabling trauma symptoms from previous csa. Didn't dare reaching out for help again until I literally wasn't leaving my room due to near constant re-experiencing.
Dr Carthy: Bonus points to anyone who can name more than 3 antidepressants in the comments!
Me, autistic mental health nurse with a special interest in psychopharmacology: *my time has come*
prozac, wellbutrin, uhhhhhh i forgot what the first one i was on was
Lexopro, wellbutrin, prozac, zoloft, celexa
That’s what i remember from my neuropharmacology class before I switched my PhD field to microbiology
More than 3 anti depressants: Sertraline, citalopram, venlafaxine, fluoxetine, mirtazapine.
I"ll take your pharmacology challenge, but I mostly know brand names: SSRIs: Paxil, Prozac, Lexapro, Zoloft. SSRI/SNRI: Effexor (weak snri), Cymbalta. TCAs: amitryptyline, doxepin. MAOIs: nardil, selegiline. Dopamine something-or-other: Wellbutrin. Augmentations: Modafinil, buspirone, atypical anti-psychotics (risperidone, Abilify)
Been on citalopram, sertraline and mirtazapine over the years, taking more of a therapy led approach this time around.
Escitalopram, bupropion, fluoxitine, citalopram, duloxetine. Ex-psych nurse, come at me with all the drugs you got 😉
Great video! Good information related to one of my favorite shows of all time!
Venlafaxine, esitalopram, citalopram, setraline, mitazapine?
Citalopram, fluoxetine, sertraline, bupropion… just naming the ones I’ve personally been on! ✨
For anyone curious, bupropion is my girl now, we love her!✌️
Fluoxetine, sertraline, and citalopram
Paxil, wellbutrin, Cymbalta, Lexapro, zoloft...