It is based on the AI and also places huge emphasis on population mechanics, allowing the player to keep the offensive momentum by replenishing faster. Yes, some factions might have better units from pop1, but if my unit has slightly lower stats and comes from pop3, then from a campaign point of view it is more valuable as it is more expendable yet nearly as elite as the former.
Nice overview mate! Always interesting to see other people's thoughts on the various levels of factions. I have some minor changes to your list that I'd personally make but overall it'd be quite similar I imagine. Glad to see you doing content here!
Thank you, bruh. It's much appreciated to see you comment here. I'm curious to see what you'd change and why. As mentioned, it is subjective, yes. So it would always be nice to see your reasoning as well.
@@TWSummary Thanks mate that looks like a pretty nice tier! I'll have to re-watch to get your reasoning on your choices, it'd be fun to do a similar video eventually to talk about all of the factions in a super general way. But like I said I don't think it'd be too different to your own choices.
For me I think the diadocian's factions are much more Supreme. The diversity of the units...the superiority of infantry (elite pikes, hoplites swordsmen),and if that's not enough...I think that elephants and chariots is the last thing that I have to say .these factions are out of any compare with anyone. 💯
Literally just googled this to figure out who I need to try next. This is the only one I've found but it's a great overview. I strongly agree with including population in the rankings, coming off a successful Spartan campaign but god damn getting their elites is rough. I basically never wanted to lose a single one.
This is awesome. Summary can you plz do best cavalry, horse archer, archer, infantry (shock, normal, spear, pikes), etc videos. Another channel did them but they are rather outdated.
Just finished a massive Massalia campaign and while you’re pretty spot on in regards to their heavy infantry being a worse version of Rome’s legionaries, their hoplites are no joke as a frontline. They also get some pretty solid skirmish cav and infantry, which is shown in their Celtic units. Great breakdown still, gave me some ideas for a next campaign!
The problem is you can't make everyone a badass. Riot have this problem when it comes to League. It just becomes a power creep issue. It's a fine balance of keeping historical accuracy and engaging playability. I think this was a very fair tier list as you are obviously very learned on the game.
hi there summary, so a couple of days ago i started a new campaign and i choose the Scythians, just to try this kind of horde army, and, by all means, they are sooo op, to not feel so much like im cheating jaja i leave the campaign on normal and the battles on hard and by the gods it has been a blast of fun and joy like i havent had in a long time playing total war jajaja first time with a horde faction and currently doing very well, thanks for the video
@@Raider1377 haha sure thing. Thing is I don't really pick my faction to play the voting does. But I decide who are the candidates. So rest assured it will be a battle between C tiers next.
hi there, nice video, i would like to ad a bit of information for everyone that sees this, and is that there are some spear units for some barbarian factions that have 3 meters long spears, wich make them like short pike units but with shield wall, you need to read their description in order to find out, but they exist, and they are very cost efective to hold the line, cheers to all
Epiros S tier and Ptolemaioi A tier? You didn't take starting position into consideration. The Ptolemaioi have a much better starting position and their roster is S tier, it makes no sense that Epiros gets S tier and the Ptolemaioi don't.
@@TWSummary Full control of prosperous Aegyptus + territories in the Levant and Anatolia + ancient wonders + coveted trade goods + opportunity to get alliances and agreements with several neighboring factions, which bring extra cash, which speeds up development. vs 2 settlements in different provinces + comparatively pitiful income + not much opportunity in the diplomatic arena + war with Rome and Carthage from the start + hostile / unstable relations with Hellenic neighbors. Sure, the Ptolemids also have to fight the Seleucids and other enemies on different fronts, but they start from a much more prosperous position and the faction has a powerful roster, they can field several armies with ease. Epiros has to invade in order to get as rich as the Ptolemids are from the start, so its starting position is obviously worse. As for beating Rome easily with early Epiros... do you have videos showing how you do it? 😅
@@TWSummary I can confirm this as it took me less than 10 turns to kill Rome as Epirus. I ended up taking Rome on turn 3 or 4! Then I went east and made Pyrrhus what he was born to be!
Hey my friend😊 very good faction overview,I don't know what winter update will bring but on few things I disagree,Athens,Britonic factions and Nabatea are to high on imo :D .Those Camels🐫 don't perform that good you might expect...easy to hit by javs and any type of Archers since camels are large type of units....and Athnes is a jack of all traits but at nothing good in particular and....dfenetly Britonic factions are too high on your list (take my criticism with love ❤️) But yes,this is only my view on things,love ya '
That is a reasonable stance. Again, it is a very subjective list. And of course, any and all differences in opinion are welcome. A discourse is incomplete without it. The reasons I ranked Athens high isn't so much the quality but the ability to keep pushing with faster and easier replenishment. For me, I personally like to min max. And Athens is an easier faction to min max with. An example of my reasoning is, "Are Spartan pikes better than Athenai Mercenary pikes?" Stat wise, yes. But is it worth the population class hit after every battle and the slower replenishment access? In my opinion, no. Losing 200 pop3 is the equivalent of losing 60 pop1, if not less. Access to pop1 is limited, and access to pop3 and pop4 is virtually limitless. That is why Roma is so good. It will be evident in my campaign soon. Even though Roma, unit-for-unit is much inferior to Seleucids, they simply outrank Seleucids cause losses don't matter to Roman's.
Sparta is so much fun cause it's not powerful and really is tough to play, with that first class limitation. But I will wait for news of KAM incorporating the changes to Sparta before I play it.
More rounded roster. Better swordsmen. Solid pop 2 cavalry. Elephants. Again, it's keeping in mind the campaign and offensive capability from easy replenishment. With the Diadochi, they're all pretty much neck-to-neck, with factions being slightly better than the others due to slight variations in their roster.
You don't have to agree. Like I said it is subjective, everyone rates their factions differently. Also has to do with playing style. So while this list might seem quite similar to most people, it won't be 100 percent identical :) Also, thank you for the compliment 🥰
They are more versatile and have better elephants as well, which in my opinion makes its better. But it is pretty close with the S and A tier factions.
Hi! Can you explain why Media is worse than Parthia? I feel like Media has actually bigger and better roster, the same late Catpahracts and more foot units?
Media and Parthia are very similar, and while you correctly noticed that Media has a more fleshed out roster. The Parthian roster is more elitist, if that makes sense. In other words, unit-for-unit, the Parthian variants are superior in comparison to the Median one.
I would say that Pergamon is the strongest of the Greek city states. Their melee cavalry is definitely among the top 5 in the game, and their elite peltasts are possibly the finest of their kind in the game. I would also put Armenia in A tier behind Media. Their versatility is incredible. The Nakharar thorax infantry are probably the best axemen in the game (close competition with Cimbri axemen). However, beyond this, they are a jack of all trades and master of none
Nah, Pergamon, compared to Athens and Sparta, with the population classes in mind, is inferior. Their troops win the award for the prettiest, though. I'll give you that Armenia is extremely versatile. Bur most if not all that versatility comes from pop1 and pop2 so, again when you consider a very offensive campaign with rapid expansion in mind, you will have to be a lot slower with factions with pop1 and pop2 armies as opposed to those that rely on pop3 or even better pop4. This is why Rome reigns supreme cause, literally 80 percent of your army can be pop3 and pop4. Not because their troops are particularly better than their peers, which they are not.
@@TWSummary Population is less of a hindrance the more you expand though. On my Pergamon campaign, I was able to recruit two full stacks of 1st class armies from the Asia province, comprising elite hoplites, Pergamene companion cavalry, royal peltasts and their elite thorax spear units. Even when population limits are considered, I think that Pergamon's scarce elite units outmatch those of Athens any day. What strategic units do Athens actually bring? Their elite hoplite unit is very good, although outclassed by those of Sparta, Carthage and Macedon. I do really like their unique peltast unit at the start of the game. And yes, I grant that Rome is superior overall on account of their almost limitless manpower. But the main reason they are so difficult to deal with in the campaign is the cheating AI. Rome always seem to have several full stacks of triarii and principes within the first 10 turns... You would be bankrupt if you attempted that whilst playing as Rome.
hey summary, as i heard you have access to the modders, maybe you can share some info about this, when i first play DEI, about 1.5 year or so, the stalk ability was reaaaaally good, speacially for the iberians factions, wich relly heavy on making this kind of ambushes in battle, basically you could get almost to the distance of the range of any archers (165) without being detected so you could really appreciate the stalk ability and use it properly, but as time pass (maybe form 1.3 update) i have noticed that this is not the case anymore, so stalk gets a little bith meh, the units get discovered almost inmediatelly from enemy units no matter the distance. Do you know why this happens in the last updates?? do you know if they are planing to make stalk op again? sorry for my english, still learning jaja
Honestly, I have no idea, really. I always find stalk units a bit too unreliable. They get discovered randomly. Stalk units are actually good versus human players from what I've heard with popular youtubers. Against the AI, it is not a major game changer and will only save you a couple of seconds in a flanking maneuver. P.S. your English is quite good 👍
It has to do with the spotting range, in earlier versions the spotting range was really low and you could not see normal armies past a few hundred metres. But now you can see them from your deployment zone on normal terrain. Bit also stalking units get discovered more easily, but I know what you are talking about. You can still do it but you need to do it more carefully, with night attacks or a little bit of concealment (e.g. high grass, bushes and trees), but now you can't get as close anymore, but still fire without being noticed. But javelins can't be hurled without being spotted anymore 😅
@@Konrad_IV Thanks konrad, i think that the earlier versión was better in this regard, with the lusitani I remember being able to put some units without stalk to get the attention of enemy ai and put some units with stalk and expert charge defense just behind, when enemy approaches they will get discovered but at a low distance so ai will continúe to charge and consequently get javs in the face, then retreat to a second group still "stalking" and repeat this was really fun to do and doing so It was a great way to deal with the slow pace of early Román republic legions, but yeah, later I wasnt able to pull this off so easily, for me, this was a major factor, at least for the iberians type of warfare I dont know if its possible to make something in between, I get the spot issue but with the current versión stalk is almost non functional, still usable, but you have to make a long journey across the border map if you dont want to be discovered u.u maybe im just bitching about, but I really liked the way of warfare for the iberians when stalk was op even the stalk for the numidian cavalry feels meh since you can not make a first strike for being detected early
@@losdocereyes4442 hahaha no problem, yes it was fun but it was just so exploitative when the AI didn't respond. But I get the style of warfare, I did this repeatedly to the Romans with the Suebi.
@@kauaiaguya it has nothing to do with sympathizing with Rome. The Roman roster from a campaign perspective is not only the largest most diverse but also the most effective and cost friendly.
@@TWSummary lol I know I guess I was just shit posting in a way. ❤️ I often play as the resistance to Rome. No hard feelings! Like the video so far just making dumb jokes
Imo, Masaesyli doesn’t deserve to be on the B tier. Although they have the best jav Cavs, jav cavs overall have way lower killing potentials than horse archers and don’t count that much. It is versatile, I agree, but is it necessarily better than any mediocre heavy cav unit? I doubt that. So the fact that Masaesyli has really good jav cavs is not as much of a strength in my eyes. Plus, it is quite arguable whether the faction has good enough frontline units to hold the line until elephants and Cavs can make rear charges. Their best spearmen unit only has a melee defense of 14 and an armor of 30, which are pretty bad for a unit that uses 1st class population. Their Numidian legionary is no where close to an elite unit as well. The rest of the infantry units are pure trash. They do have good peltasts though, but I don’t think that is enough to make up for anything, really. If I were to make the tier list, the faction is definitely going to be low end C or high end D tier.
Thank you bruh for your comment and for taking the time to elaborate so well. My opinions are subjective, so you are totally right to feel different. As Massalia, I wouldn't use hoplites ever (except in the early game when nothing else is available). That is not their strength. I would opt for a Romanesque type army (20 unit stack): - 1 x Massalian Noble Cavalry (General) - 1 x Balearic Slingers (Mercenaries pop4 close-by, snipe general and enemy cavalry especially when they try to disengage) - 2 x Arevaci Neitos Skirmishers (pop3 , cavalry support, and attack flanks) - 6 x Celto-Hellenic Cavalry (pop3, decent stats for pop3, expendable, watch them melt any combination of 4 x pop 1 cav, no sweat, numerical superiority always wins) - 4 x Celto-Hellenic Spearmen (pop3, frontline, armour 30 is amazing for pop3, defensive formation bumps it up to 45 armor!) - 2 x Romanised Infantry (pop2, defend flanks) - 4 x Allied Gallic Heavy Axemen (pop2, attack flanks, Agrianian Axemen stats, underrated). So while you might not have "amazing" units, what you have above is an army without a single pop1 unit save for the general. Which means constant warring and expansion becomes easy, kind of like Romans (who use pop3 and pop4 mostly), Massalians uses pop2 and pop3 mostly. The other factions with "better" troops have to rely on pop1 and pop2 to obtain them and their pop3 are almost worthless.
@@TWSummary thanks for your advice for playing as Massalia, I meant the Numidian faction though. I would rate every Greek faction to be at least high key C.
How can the masesyli rank higher than the leugoz or edetani. They have literally nothing going for them rosterwise and they are in the worst spot on the campaign map ^^ Also few other little disagreements, but good list all in all. But against the AI most factions work, but some campaigns are just very hard. Like kohlkis or Syracuse, on the other hand the Antigonid campaign is not as hard as the initial difficulty suggests imo.
Kartli and masesyli are the worst factions in my opinion, Saba are not that bad but have their problems. But with their noble units (bodyguard and Sabean nobles) they have good infantry and their cavalry is very good. Also population is not that big of a problem in their core provinces.
@Konrad W. Masesyli, in my personal opinion, does better because they have versatility in the form of Elephants and very powerful missile cavalry. With this combination, even trash tier infantry can survive long enough to be assisted by the more powerful elephants. Elephants are super strong versus the AI.
Respectfully disagree. I have to test if this holds true after the hoplite nerf in 1.32. But any sword unit, even the Praetorian guard would outright lose in a head to head clash with a hoplite phalanx.
I play with pikes and front i killed all units in game 😂😂….war elephants royal catas royal spartans , praetorians , armored shotels, royal Galatians guards, oathsworn….even i put archers to hit me until no ammo to see what happens 😂😂……after finish their ammo my pike was enought to just kill them easy. From front you cant lose with elite pikes…….but you need to protect them at all cost either with cavalry or archers…..yes they are slow but they are also very good, cavalry decimated
As an Indian myself I would say that in a hypothetical scenario in which the Mauryans fought against the Romans. They would outright lose. 1. Roman infantry is far superior in discipline and training that Mauryans. 2. Roman cavalry is better equipped than Mauryans. 3. Romans had experience dealing with elephants effectively. But this would not be a fair comparison because Rome was at its military peak 3 centuries after the start date while the Mauryans were at their peak around the start date. So obviously the Romans would have a technological and tactical advantage.
India was actually quite blessed in the era of the Romans and Parthians cause the Parthians were a direct challenge to Rome and their way of warfare was ideal against Roman infantry armies but weak in Indian terrain. Had Rome been able to overrun Persia, India would be an easy target.
The shear numbers of mauryan army was unthinkable for the west Maybe if smaller indian army clashed with romans romans would win But no chance if the emperor came with hos whole army
@@TWSummary remember alexander the great was almost defeated by a tribal chieftain porus would he have won against the great nanda empire??? Impossible 9000 elephants
Absolutely agree. But again, versus AI regarding naval battles, it is easier to snipe. So even an inferior fleet can choose its moment to take on a better one
Just an FYI. The only god tier force in DEI are the Parthians. Period. A horse archer army with a small amount of cataphracts, and you will destroy every army you encounter. You simply siege cities, and they will almost always sally out due to the poor analytics of the auto resolve system ,and you will absolutely decimate. I conquered all the eastern provinces and west up to the Seleucid empire with one single stack with minimal replenishment downtime. It's ridiculously OP far beyond the abilities of any other faction. Time-consuming as the auto resolve will show me as a 90% underdog, but fight it, and there will be no stacks left, and I barely take 100 losses. It is absolutely ridiculous! I've cleared 3 full stacks of high tier Seleucid armies with only 20% losses. Cheers!
Horse archers are strong, yes. But this guide focuses more on roster balance rather than a one trick pony. Ultimately, cavalry also sucks at defending a settlement as well, without good infantry.
@TWSummary Fair response except I disagree with you when you say they suck at defending settlements. I let Hawk (Armenia) move two full stacks against a 16 unit stack, defending a none walled settlement and absolutely trounced them with under 200 losses. Similar outcome with two and a half stacks against Seleucids seiging a walled settlement and just to challenge myself I stayed in the walls for the majority of the fight, losses were about 300 and I had a full stack. Literally nothing in the game can stop one stack of 16 horse archers and 4 cataphracts, at least with the computer as the opponent, and I'm on legendary. It is ridiculous. A lot of micro required, but it is completely and utterly ridiculous. Love the content! Keep up the good work.
![Spartan Army Guide (1.32) - ROME 2 Total War ~ Factional Army Guide [Divide Et Impera] #2](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/MLfDFWs4lvc/mqdefault.jpg)
![Spartan Army Guide (1.32) - ROME 2 Total War ~ Factional Army Guide [Divide Et Impera] #2](/img/tr.png)
This is first time someone did ranking video about DEI factions! Really cool, thanks! 👍
It is based on the AI and also places huge emphasis on population mechanics, allowing the player to keep the offensive momentum by replenishing faster.
Yes, some factions might have better units from pop1, but if my unit has slightly lower stats and comes from pop3, then from a campaign point of view it is more valuable as it is more expendable yet nearly as elite as the former.
@@TWSummary True, makes sense.. I am not a big campaign player but I know what you mean..
But do not misunderstand me, I love DEI campaigns, super game. Just dont have much time for it and never been able to finish one :)
@Gio D to each his own. I love campaigns, and battles for me are an added immersion factor.
@@TWSummary Agreed!
Actually after I finish watching one huge rugby match now, I will play Baktria campaign. At least I start and see how far I get ;)
Nice overview mate! Always interesting to see other people's thoughts on the various levels of factions. I have some minor changes to your list that I'd personally make but overall it'd be quite similar I imagine.
Glad to see you doing content here!
Thank you, bruh. It's much appreciated to see you comment here. I'm curious to see what you'd change and why. As mentioned, it is subjective, yes. So it would always be nice to see your reasoning as well.
Also, you are free to use the tier maker list should you intend. Link in the description.
@@TWSummary Thanks mate that looks like a pretty nice tier! I'll have to re-watch to get your reasoning on your choices, it'd be fun to do a similar video eventually to talk about all of the factions in a super general way.
But like I said I don't think it'd be too different to your own choices.
@@Immersaholic link in the description for the tier maker for DEI
For me I think the diadocian's factions are much more Supreme. The diversity of the units...the superiority of infantry (elite pikes, hoplites swordsmen),and if that's not enough...I think that elephants and chariots is the last thing that I have to say .these factions are out of any compare with anyone. 💯
Absolutely top tier indeed. But Roma beats them purely on population.
Literally just googled this to figure out who I need to try next. This is the only one I've found but it's a great overview. I strongly agree with including population in the rankings, coming off a successful Spartan campaign but god damn getting their elites is rough. I basically never wanted to lose a single one.
This is awesome.
Summary can you plz do best cavalry, horse archer, archer, infantry (shock, normal, spear, pikes), etc videos. Another channel did them but they are rather outdated.
Will definitely do that to my tactical guide series.
@@TWSummary Good point :D you are the right person to make those Factions Overview,and units type rank,you shoud go for it :P
Nice work mate! Thank you for your very detail guide, so glad that people still care about this old but gold game :D
Thank you bruh for the kind words.
Nice comparison of units in my opinion. Brings back the nostalgia of my teen years
Glad you like it.
Just finished a massive Massalia campaign and while you’re pretty spot on in regards to their heavy infantry being a worse version of Rome’s legionaries, their hoplites are no joke as a frontline. They also get some pretty solid skirmish cav and infantry, which is shown in their Celtic units. Great breakdown still, gave me some ideas for a next campaign!
Very nice vid. Made me chuckle to have C as avg, when the most factions rank b+ :D
Haha true.
The problem is you can't make everyone a badass. Riot have this problem when it comes to League. It just becomes a power creep issue. It's a fine balance of keeping historical accuracy and engaging playability. I think this was a very fair tier list as you are obviously very learned on the game.
Amazing breakdown. No need to apologize for long vdo. I love this. Keep them coming
Thank you for the compliment bruh
Pergamon are my favourites, because their high tier units simply look the best with their colours and laurel wreaths ^^
Thx for this great overview. It helped me a lot to better assess which faction apart from Rome I will try out on hatder difficulties
hi there summary, so a couple of days ago i started a new campaign and i choose the Scythians, just to try this kind of horde army, and, by all means, they are sooo op, to not feel so much like im cheating jaja i leave the campaign on normal and the battles on hard and by the gods it has been a blast of fun and joy like i havent had in a long time playing total war jajaja first time with a horde faction and currently doing very well, thanks for the video
Don't play the nomads now. There is a winter update releasing soon bruh!!! They are all getting complete overhauls.
@@TWSummary nooooooo, oh god why, obligado a rushear hasta roma !! jaja
I think we need an update based on the most recent overhaul.
You have to pick a faction from your own 'C' Tier list for your next DEI playthrough. No more Roma and Seleucid steamrolling the map.....good luck!!
@@Raider1377 haha sure thing. Thing is I don't really pick my faction to play the voting does. But I decide who are the candidates. So rest assured it will be a battle between C tiers next.
hi there, nice video, i would like to ad a bit of information for everyone that sees this, and is that there are some spear units for some barbarian factions that have 3 meters long spears, wich make them like short pike units but with shield wall, you need to read their description in order to find out, but they exist, and they are very cost efective to hold the line, cheers to all
Great tip!
Epiros S tier and Ptolemaioi A tier?
You didn't take starting position into consideration.
The Ptolemaioi have a much better starting position and their roster is S tier, it makes no sense that Epiros gets S tier and the Ptolemaioi don't.
It's purely based on roster. And Epirus has a better starting position than Ptolemids. They can easily beat Rome and take over as the new Romans.
@@TWSummary
Full control of prosperous Aegyptus + territories in the Levant and Anatolia + ancient wonders + coveted trade goods + opportunity to get alliances and agreements with several neighboring factions, which bring extra cash, which speeds up development.
vs
2 settlements in different provinces + comparatively pitiful income + not much opportunity in the diplomatic arena + war with Rome and Carthage from the start + hostile / unstable relations with Hellenic neighbors.
Sure, the Ptolemids also have to fight the Seleucids and other enemies on different fronts, but they start from a much more prosperous position and the faction has a powerful roster, they can field several armies with ease.
Epiros has to invade in order to get as rich as the Ptolemids are from the start, so its starting position is obviously worse.
As for beating Rome easily with early Epiros... do you have videos showing how you do it? 😅
@@TWSummary I can confirm this as it took me less than 10 turns to kill Rome as Epirus. I ended up taking Rome on turn 3 or 4! Then I went east and made Pyrrhus what he was born to be!
Hell yeah. I've been waiting for a good Rome 2 Tier list.
More to come! This is just the beginning of this series. Now, I will dive into each faction and recommend army compositions one by one.
Hey my friend😊 very good faction overview,I don't know what winter update will bring but on few things I disagree,Athens,Britonic factions and Nabatea are to high on imo :D .Those Camels🐫 don't perform that good you might expect...easy to hit by javs and any type of Archers since camels are large type of units....and Athnes is a jack of all traits but at nothing good in particular and....dfenetly Britonic factions are too high on your list (take my criticism with love ❤️) But yes,this is only my view on things,love ya '
That is a reasonable stance. Again, it is a very subjective list. And of course, any and all differences in opinion are welcome. A discourse is incomplete without it.
The reasons I ranked Athens high isn't so much the quality but the ability to keep pushing with faster and easier replenishment.
For me, I personally like to min max. And Athens is an easier faction to min max with.
An example of my reasoning is, "Are Spartan pikes better than Athenai Mercenary pikes?" Stat wise, yes. But is it worth the population class hit after every battle and the slower replenishment access? In my opinion, no. Losing 200 pop3 is the equivalent of losing 60 pop1, if not less. Access to pop1 is limited, and access to pop3 and pop4 is virtually limitless. That is why Roma is so good. It will be evident in my campaign soon. Even though Roma, unit-for-unit is much inferior to Seleucids, they simply outrank Seleucids cause losses don't matter to Roman's.
You're forgetting Nabatea's axes, absolutely god tier assault infantry, and their medium spears are a great frontline, plus really quick heavy cav
Great video man, keep up with god's work!!
Thank you for the kind words bruh.
thanks for the vid!
Nice! will you do one for Imperator Augustus?
Would love to see a Sparta let's play!
Sparta is so much fun cause it's not powerful and really is tough to play, with that first class limitation. But I will wait for news of KAM incorporating the changes to Sparta before I play it.
Kimbrozi has the strongest axe Unit and the Unit win against all Roman meele units
Thank you for this list, very helpful! Does it still hold up in 2024? Or some factions rose up?
More or less, yes. Maybe just the saba get a slight boost.
@@TWSummary Thank you for the reply!
In what regard is Epirus better than Macedonia? How do they compare?
More rounded roster. Better swordsmen. Solid pop 2 cavalry. Elephants. Again, it's keeping in mind the campaign and offensive capability from easy replenishment.
With the Diadochi, they're all pretty much neck-to-neck, with factions being slightly better than the others due to slight variations in their roster.
@@TWSummary thx. i am much for the successor kingdoms, even more so than rome
dont know if I agree with all of these but good vid anyway
You don't have to agree. Like I said it is subjective, everyone rates their factions differently. Also has to do with playing style.
So while this list might seem quite similar to most people, it won't be 100 percent identical :)
Also, thank you for the compliment 🥰
Merry xmax Frined :D
Merry Christmas bruh
Epirus is weaker that Egyptian
They are more versatile and have better elephants as well, which in my opinion makes its better. But it is pretty close with the S and A tier factions.
Hi summary nice video btw,, can you tell me your mod load order and list?? Thanks^^
Hello my friend. Check the description of any video in my Parthian series. Both the Mod List and order are specified there.
@@TWSummary yeah sry mate just check your rome videos and realize it nice video👍
Hi! Can you explain why Media is worse than Parthia? I feel like Media has actually bigger and better roster, the same late Catpahracts and more foot units?
Media and Parthia are very similar, and while you correctly noticed that Media has a more fleshed out roster. The Parthian roster is more elitist, if that makes sense. In other words, unit-for-unit, the Parthian variants are superior in comparison to the Median one.
I would say that Pergamon is the strongest of the Greek city states. Their melee cavalry is definitely among the top 5 in the game, and their elite peltasts are possibly the finest of their kind in the game. I would also put Armenia in A tier behind Media. Their versatility is incredible. The Nakharar thorax infantry are probably the best axemen in the game (close competition with Cimbri axemen). However, beyond this, they are a jack of all trades and master of none
Nah, Pergamon, compared to Athens and Sparta, with the population classes in mind, is inferior. Their troops win the award for the prettiest, though.
I'll give you that Armenia is extremely versatile. Bur most if not all that versatility comes from pop1 and pop2 so, again when you consider a very offensive campaign with rapid expansion in mind, you will have to be a lot slower with factions with pop1 and pop2 armies as opposed to those that rely on pop3 or even better pop4.
This is why Rome reigns supreme cause, literally 80 percent of your army can be pop3 and pop4. Not because their troops are particularly better than their peers, which they are not.
@@TWSummary Population is less of a hindrance the more you expand though. On my Pergamon campaign, I was able to recruit two full stacks of 1st class armies from the Asia province, comprising elite hoplites, Pergamene companion cavalry, royal peltasts and their elite thorax spear units.
Even when population limits are considered, I think that Pergamon's scarce elite units outmatch those of Athens any day. What strategic units do Athens actually bring? Their elite hoplite unit is very good, although outclassed by those of Sparta, Carthage and Macedon. I do really like their unique peltast unit at the start of the game.
And yes, I grant that Rome is superior overall on account of their almost limitless manpower. But the main reason they are so difficult to deal with in the campaign is the cheating AI. Rome always seem to have several full stacks of triarii and principes within the first 10 turns... You would be bankrupt if you attempted that whilst playing as Rome.
hey summary, as i heard you have access to the modders, maybe you can share some info about this, when i first play DEI, about 1.5 year or so, the stalk ability was reaaaaally good, speacially for the iberians factions, wich relly heavy on making this kind of ambushes in battle, basically you could get almost to the distance of the range of any archers (165) without being detected so you could really appreciate the stalk ability and use it properly, but as time pass (maybe form 1.3 update) i have noticed that this is not the case anymore, so stalk gets a little bith meh, the units get discovered almost inmediatelly from enemy units no matter the distance. Do you know why this happens in the last updates?? do you know if they are planing to make stalk op again? sorry for my english, still learning jaja
Honestly, I have no idea, really. I always find stalk units a bit too unreliable. They get discovered randomly. Stalk units are actually good versus human players from what I've heard with popular youtubers. Against the AI, it is not a major game changer and will only save you a couple of seconds in a flanking maneuver.
P.S. your English is quite good 👍
It has to do with the spotting range, in earlier versions the spotting range was really low and you could not see normal armies past a few hundred metres.
But now you can see them from your deployment zone on normal terrain. Bit also stalking units get discovered more easily, but I know what you are talking about.
You can still do it but you need to do it more carefully, with night attacks or a little bit of concealment (e.g. high grass, bushes and trees), but now you can't get as close anymore, but still fire without being noticed. But javelins can't be hurled without being spotted anymore 😅
@@Konrad_IV Thanks konrad, i think that the earlier versión was better in this regard, with the lusitani I remember being able to put some units without stalk to get the attention of enemy ai and put some units with stalk and expert charge defense just behind, when enemy approaches they will get discovered but at a low distance so ai will continúe to charge and consequently get javs in the face, then retreat to a second group still "stalking" and repeat this was really fun to do and doing so It was a great way to deal with the slow pace of early Román republic legions, but yeah, later I wasnt able to pull this off so easily, for me, this was a major factor, at least for the iberians type of warfare I dont know if its possible to make something in between, I get the spot issue but with the current versión stalk is almost non functional, still usable, but you have to make a long journey across the border map if you dont want to be discovered u.u maybe im just bitching about, but I really liked the way of warfare for the iberians when stalk was op even the stalk for the numidian cavalry feels meh since you can not make a first strike for being detected early
Sorry, I get carried away jajaja
@@losdocereyes4442 hahaha no problem, yes it was fun but it was just so exploitative when the AI didn't respond.
But I get the style of warfare, I did this repeatedly to the Romans with the Suebi.
The amount of roman sympathizers are wild
@@kauaiaguya it has nothing to do with sympathizing with Rome. The Roman roster from a campaign perspective is not only the largest most diverse but also the most effective and cost friendly.
@@TWSummary lol I know I guess I was just shit posting in a way. ❤️ I often play as the resistance to Rome. No hard feelings! Like the video so far just making dumb jokes
Imo, Masaesyli doesn’t deserve to be on the B tier. Although they have the best jav Cavs, jav cavs overall have way lower killing potentials than horse archers and don’t count that much. It is versatile, I agree, but is it necessarily better than any mediocre heavy cav unit? I doubt that. So the fact that Masaesyli has really good jav cavs is not as much of a strength in my eyes. Plus, it is quite arguable whether the faction has good enough frontline units to hold the line until elephants and Cavs can make rear charges. Their best spearmen unit only has a melee defense of 14 and an armor of 30, which are pretty bad for a unit that uses 1st class population. Their Numidian legionary is no where close to an elite unit as well. The rest of the infantry units are pure trash. They do have good peltasts though, but I don’t think that is enough to make up for anything, really. If I were to make the tier list, the faction is definitely going to be low end C or high end D tier.
Thank you bruh for your comment and for taking the time to elaborate so well. My opinions are subjective, so you are totally right to feel different.
As Massalia, I wouldn't use hoplites ever (except in the early game when nothing else is available). That is not their strength. I would opt for a Romanesque type army (20 unit stack):
- 1 x Massalian Noble Cavalry (General)
- 1 x Balearic Slingers (Mercenaries pop4 close-by, snipe general and enemy cavalry especially when they try to disengage)
- 2 x Arevaci Neitos Skirmishers (pop3 , cavalry support, and attack flanks)
- 6 x Celto-Hellenic Cavalry (pop3, decent stats for pop3, expendable, watch them melt any combination of 4 x pop 1 cav, no sweat, numerical superiority always wins)
- 4 x Celto-Hellenic Spearmen (pop3, frontline, armour 30 is amazing for pop3, defensive formation bumps it up to 45 armor!)
- 2 x Romanised Infantry (pop2, defend flanks)
- 4 x Allied Gallic Heavy Axemen (pop2, attack flanks, Agrianian Axemen stats, underrated).
So while you might not have "amazing" units, what you have above is an army without a single pop1 unit save for the general. Which means constant warring and expansion becomes easy, kind of like Romans (who use pop3 and pop4 mostly), Massalians uses pop2 and pop3 mostly. The other factions with "better" troops have to rely on pop1 and pop2 to obtain them and their pop3 are almost worthless.
@@TWSummary thanks for your advice for playing as Massalia, I meant the Numidian faction though. I would rate every Greek faction to be at least high key C.
How can the masesyli rank higher than the leugoz or edetani. They have literally nothing going for them rosterwise and they are in the worst spot on the campaign map ^^
Also few other little disagreements, but good list all in all. But against the AI most factions work, but some campaigns are just very hard. Like kohlkis or Syracuse, on the other hand the Antigonid campaign is not as hard as the initial difficulty suggests imo.
Kartli and masesyli are the worst factions in my opinion, Saba are not that bad but have their problems. But with their noble units (bodyguard and Sabean nobles) they have good infantry and their cavalry is very good. Also population is not that big of a problem in their core provinces.
This is purely a roster tier list, nothing to do with the campaign difficulty.
@Konrad W. Masesyli, in my personal opinion, does better because they have versatility in the form of Elephants and very powerful missile cavalry. With this combination, even trash tier infantry can survive long enough to be assisted by the more powerful elephants. Elephants are super strong versus the AI.
What the hell with saba? Pretty decznt faction in vanilla
Some excellent stuff here. Thank you :)
Thank you, buddy. Stick around for more 😊
legionaries would absolutely shred any hoplite unit that greeks would use as a battle line. i dissagree with your take there. good watch though!
Respectfully disagree. I have to test if this holds true after the hoplite nerf in 1.32. But any sword unit, even the Praetorian guard would outright lose in a head to head clash with a hoplite phalanx.
I play with pikes and front i killed all units in game 😂😂….war elephants royal catas royal spartans , praetorians , armored shotels, royal Galatians guards, oathsworn….even i put archers to hit me until no ammo to see what happens 😂😂……after finish their ammo my pike was enought to just kill them easy. From front you cant lose with elite pikes…….but you need to protect them at all cost either with cavalry or archers…..yes they are slow but they are also very good, cavalry decimated
It is purely based on game I hope and not history. Because mauryans below anything would be a joke and i think you already know this
As an Indian myself I would say that in a hypothetical scenario in which the Mauryans fought against the Romans. They would outright lose.
1. Roman infantry is far superior in discipline and training that Mauryans.
2. Roman cavalry is better equipped than Mauryans.
3. Romans had experience dealing with elephants effectively.
But this would not be a fair comparison because Rome was at its military peak 3 centuries after the start date while the Mauryans were at their peak around the start date.
So obviously the Romans would have a technological and tactical advantage.
India was actually quite blessed in the era of the Romans and Parthians cause the Parthians were a direct challenge to Rome and their way of warfare was ideal against Roman infantry armies but weak in Indian terrain. Had Rome been able to overrun Persia, India would be an easy target.
@@TWSummary The selucids tried and were completely defeated by the mauryans.
The shear numbers of mauryan army was unthinkable for the west
Maybe if smaller indian army clashed with romans romans would win
But no chance if the emperor came with hos whole army
@@TWSummary remember alexander the great was almost defeated by a tribal chieftain porus would he have won against the great nanda empire???
Impossible
9000 elephants
Athens Navy is something to not forget about. The 35 and 38 armor of the top tier units and 180 men are strong when invading.
Absolutely agree. But again, versus AI regarding naval battles, it is easier to snipe. So even an inferior fleet can choose its moment to take on a better one
Just an FYI. The only god tier force in DEI are the Parthians. Period. A horse archer army with a small amount of cataphracts, and you will destroy every army you encounter. You simply siege cities, and they will almost always sally out due to the poor analytics of the auto resolve system ,and you will absolutely decimate. I conquered all the eastern provinces and west up to the Seleucid empire with one single stack with minimal replenishment downtime. It's ridiculously OP far beyond the abilities of any other faction. Time-consuming as the auto resolve will show me as a 90% underdog, but fight it, and there will be no stacks left, and I barely take 100 losses. It is absolutely ridiculous! I've cleared 3 full stacks of high tier Seleucid armies with only 20% losses. Cheers!
Horse archers are strong, yes. But this guide focuses more on roster balance rather than a one trick pony. Ultimately, cavalry also sucks at defending a settlement as well, without good infantry.
@TWSummary Fair response except I disagree with you when you say they suck at defending settlements. I let Hawk (Armenia) move two full stacks against a 16 unit stack, defending a none walled settlement and absolutely trounced them with under 200 losses. Similar outcome with two and a half stacks against Seleucids seiging a walled settlement and just to challenge myself I stayed in the walls for the majority of the fight, losses were about 300 and I had a full stack. Literally nothing in the game can stop one stack of 16 horse archers and 4 cataphracts, at least with the computer as the opponent, and I'm on legendary. It is ridiculous. A lot of micro required, but it is completely and utterly ridiculous.
Love the content! Keep up the good work.