don't know if too late, but you could calculate the weight needed based on your wrench arm length and attach the weights you need to the end of it. For example: 17Nm is about 173 KG*cm so with a arm of 10 cm you need 17.3 kg of weight to reach the desired torque
Good but important to ensure you are pulling at 90 degrees to the wrench, otherwise you could undertorque the bolt since you will be vectoring the force.
Correct but not by much at lower torques. Could be an issue at higher torques. It could be critical in some applications (head gasket) but for most repairs you will be low by 2 lb ft at 20lbs and 10 lb ft at 100 lbs. Good observation.
This method is more effective on lower torques. For higher torques, things start to slip out of place as you don't have a firm enough grip on the handle of the power bar/ratchet.
Awesome! Used this method for inch pounds. Was a little hard holding the tiny Allen wrench on while hanging 15 pounds on the end, but I got it to work!
Unfortunately you are mistaken. You are adding fastening weight, on the weight of ratchet. Ratched itself, makes a torque value on the bolt, before you start adding weight. Means youre applying over torque. That method can only used horizontally.
Rest the socket end on a bench and then use the force meter at you 1ft mark, that gives the indication of the pre existing downwards force at that point. Cant just weigh the tool as a whole because the self weight pulls at different points over the whole tool creating different torques at different measuring points along it. Go for the vertically aligned pull to eliminate that though. In saying that watching a meter as you pull probably won't do justice to accuracy.
This is the more recommended approach for our average infrequent users. A proper torque wrench requires re-calibration every year. Just not worth the money and effort if not using it frequently
Ryan - This is what UA-cam is made for ...... I only need to torque one bolt and definately not worth 330 for a wrench - Thanks for the information and the video - Chris UK
@@bardsandwarriors2 Problem i've found with these cheap alternatives to "snap on". Is that they're very inaccurate, most of the time they're more inaccurate then your own "snug fit"
The biggest misconception about all of this is that you have to buy a digital torque wrench. You can buy a $20 click torque wrench and instead of it beeping when u are at the desired torque it clicks.
I have a few torque devices, my favorite one isn't my expensive digital ones but a spring analog torque driver that goes booooong when it's torque correctly
I just question if torque even matters that much. Which bolts are going to leak exactly? If the bolts are large give them a lot of muscle. If they're small then avoid overtightening and stripping. I don't see why you need more than those basic guidelines that people generally follow.
@LegendLength sometimes you need to apply the certain amount of preload to a bolt for it to function as designed, otherwise it might fail during operation in many different ways. A leak usually isn't the main concern
True. Though my transmission pan bolts are supposed to be torqued to 3.6 pounds. Most torque wrenches start at 10-20 ft lbs. The very lowest I've seen goes down to 5, so in my case the fish scale works better.
@@elliotthope1or get an inch lb torque wrench. 6 ft lbs = 72 inch lbs (pretty sure I made less than $20 for mine at the auto parts store, I image Amazon or Temu may be cheaper).
Hi great video and since then I use pretty much any tool that I have for a torque wrench. You have to divide the deemed force by the length of the tool in feet or meters depending on the scale you are using. So that would be kilograms-force required divided by length of the tools IN meters (e.g. 23 cm would be 0.23 meters) -> you get the kilograms that you need to weigh with the scales. That's for kilogram-force meter example. Same for pound-force foot - you divide the required force by the length of the tool IN feet.
Monica Pearson Great question! Torque decreases as the arm length decreases. So, applying 30lbs of force on a 6" arm (0.5 feet) results in 15 foot pounds of torque (or 30lbs X 0.5ft). I believe this is what you were saying. Im just confirming. Hope that helps!
Ryan C Perfect! Thank you! Yes, I just wanted a confirmation that that made sense. You and your video made it possible for me to do smaller and accurate torque settings on my mopeds 😜 without a dime spent. Great vid!!👍👍👍
Ryan C so i just wanted to ask a followup question: if i had a 2foot arm-length and i applied 10lbs of force, would that then equate to 20 foot pounds of torque?
tanwir h I know you made this comment 10 months ago, but I wanted to say I believe your calculation is correct. The equation is: (Pounds shown on the luggage scale x inches from center of bolt to luggage scale handle) / 12 Also, make sure the luggage scale is pulling perpendicular to the bar on the wrench. Hope this helps!
The perfect Q&A! You UA-cam people are amazing. I couldn't use anything but a special open ended ring spanner for a leaking diesel injector pipe end. Had no idea how to measure torque without my torque wrench. Spanner is less than 12 inches, so the original video and this Q&A has resolved everything. Now to apply & test. 🤞 And if it's still leaking after, at least I know it's a replacement pipe I need.
Great video. What's the formula for calculating "weight" needed for "length" to get "specified torque"? Meters/kg would work best for me (else I need to convert it again, making it more error-prone). Thanks!
The same principle applies, but instead, your measurements will be in kilograms and meters. The force applied (in kg) multiplied by the arm length (in meters) will yield your torque. Now, if the torque you are being told to achieve is in inches/feet/pounds, but you only have metric tools, the answer is STILL simple. All you have to do is convert the imperial measurements to metric measurements to determine the parameters of the torque.
ok so if i were to half the distance would I double the weight? I'm using newton meters and I've got a 10cm long Allen key to make 7 newton meters of torque. with this 10cm Allen key would I have to apply 70 newtons (7kg)?
If the weighing scale measures kg, you need to multiply it with 9.8 and then multiply it with the distance you are exerting the force at, which would be 0.1 m in your case. So for your particular scenario weight in kg that the scale needs to show should be 7.14 kg
rachets wont weight more than 2-3 kg depending on the angle. 2Nm of torque more I think is acceptable in almost every scenario I can think were a torque wrench would be necessary. But yea, doing it horizontally would be more accurate indeed.
Go ahead and just buy a $15 click type torque wrench. The cheapest ones get a lot good reviews. I just got a new 1/4 drive for $12. I checked the torque values using techniques seen here on UA-cam. It's pretty much spot on.
This is a clever in the moment way to know how much torque used, but how about an axle nut on Cayenne which requires 340ft lb? Would rather not get the run around from the mechanic telling me to keep coming back or buy a 250 dollar wrench that I will use maybe twice more throughout the ownership of the vehicle. Any ideas for much higher torque range? Thanks for this video and any help.
Torque = distance * force So to do 340ft/lb with a small scale all you can do is make at 5 times the distance from the nut so 5ft will require 340/5 = 68 ft on scale. The dificult part is finding a wrench which is 5ft long but you can make one i guess
Yes. You could use a 16” breaker bar & socket or a 16” wrench, but you’ll want the measuring scale or device located at the foot mark (12” away from the center of the bolt or nut) on your torquing tool of choice. You can use a 4’ breaker bar in theory, if you really wanted to, but make sure your pressure/measurement device is hooked onto that tool at or around the 12”/1’ line that you’ve pre-measured and drawn a line of some sort on your actual tool to know where you’ll need to hook that device at while you’re pulling down.
Another quick question about your video. To where exactly would I measure from on a ratchet? Would it be to the very end of the ratchet or to the middle of the piece that the sockets click into?
From the center of the socket. If you have a one inch socket, at the center it would be half an inch. So you measure another 11 and a half inches from the edge of the socket to where you place your 1ft marker
This is ingenious. Now I just need a breaker bar and a fish scale. *Googles: "How to torque without a breaker bar or fish scale"
Josh, sorry. I'll make that video next hahaha
don't know if too late, but you could calculate the weight needed based on your wrench arm length and attach the weights you need to the end of it. For example: 17Nm is about 173 KG*cm so with a arm of 10 cm you need 17.3 kg of weight to reach the desired torque
😂😂😂
Good but important to ensure you are pulling at 90 degrees to the wrench, otherwise you could undertorque the bolt since you will be vectoring the force.
Correct but not by much at lower torques. Could be an issue at higher torques. It could be critical in some applications (head gasket) but for most repairs you will be low by 2 lb ft at 20lbs and 10 lb ft at 100 lbs. Good observation.
Torque wrench have an 4% estimation of error so if are not exact pulling at 90° should not be that bad of course not too much far frim +/- 90°
This method is more effective on lower torques. For higher torques, things start to slip out of place as you don't have a firm enough grip on the handle of the power bar/ratchet.
Very interesting and helpful - thank you! Particularly the bit about the distance down the bar from the bolt being important.
I figured a luggage scale would do the trick, but I didn't take into consideration the distance aspect. Very valuable information. Thank you.
The unit is Nm or In lb so you do have to take in account the distance.
Such a handy method! Gonna try this soon on my tappet cover!
this was exactly what I was looking for. great explanation
Beautiful video. About first principles and really useful for a lot of purposes and people. Thank you so much.
You are great man!! Thanks a lot!
Great video! Thanks for the easy explanation of this.
Brilliant video learnt alot in such short time. Great idea
Awesome video. Thank you
Awesome! Used this method for inch pounds. Was a little hard holding the tiny Allen wrench on while hanging 15 pounds on the end, but I got it to work!
Volvo im asuming?
@@throckmortonthebrave6634 it was an optic for a rifle actually. Not too many things use inch pounds outside of firearms. I'm guessing Volvo does?
@duvalpenny100 transmission pan bolts on my Camaro spec at 80in. lbs. That translates to like 6ft. lbs. My smallest torque wrench is 10lbs!
Thanks for making this
Unfortunately you are mistaken. You are adding fastening weight, on the weight of ratchet. Ratched itself, makes a torque value on the bolt, before you start adding weight. Means youre applying over torque. That method can only used horizontally.
So.....weight the ratchet and do the math?
Rest the socket end on a bench and then use the force meter at you 1ft mark, that gives the indication of the pre existing downwards force at that point. Cant just weigh the tool as a whole because the self weight pulls at different points over the whole tool creating different torques at different measuring points along it. Go for the vertically aligned pull to eliminate that though. In saying that watching a meter as you pull probably won't do justice to accuracy.
This is the more recommended approach for our average infrequent users. A proper torque wrench requires re-calibration every year. Just not worth the money and effort if not using it frequently
nice, unbelievably nice
Thank you so much ❤
Thanks. I came here hoping I could estimate 4.4 foot lbs, a bicycle stem install. No torque wrench
Excellent! Thanks!
ask a question and get the exact answer. Thanks
this man a genius
THANKS!!!!!!! excellent!!!
thank you this video saved me over 50$ on the tool
Wow this is wunderful!
Thanks a lot Joel!
thank you!!!
You have to take into account the weight of the wrench when working in the vertical.
what if I don't have a ft long wrench but one thats half a foot or 6 inches? And I need to tighten 6 lb ft?
So the losses from the measurement are negligible, correct ?
I have a cheap torque wrench that starts at 5 I need 6 but I think is already too tight &it doesn’t click I’ll use this trick to make sure
Ryan - This is what UA-cam is made for ...... I only need to torque one bolt and definately not worth 330 for a wrench - Thanks for the information and the video - Chris UK
You can get a budget torque wrench for £20 from Halfords, Toolzone, etc. But for one bolt, this is still a great method.
@@bardsandwarriors2 sorry .... typing error, it should have been £30, not 330 !!
@@bardsandwarriors2 Problem i've found with these cheap alternatives to "snap on". Is that they're very inaccurate, most of the time they're more inaccurate then your own "snug fit"
@@Near2Future yeah that’s what I’m thinking while watching this as far as accuracy how accurate is it actually?
@@Near2Future maybe they accurate enough for higher torque like wheel nuts, but not for smaller torque.
this just made my day :)
nice one !
Would this even work for something big like 300 foot pounds?
The biggest misconception about all of this is that you have to buy a digital torque wrench. You can buy a $20 click torque wrench and instead of it beeping when u are at the desired torque it clicks.
I have a few torque devices, my favorite one isn't my expensive digital ones but a spring analog torque driver that goes booooong when it's torque correctly
I just question if torque even matters that much. Which bolts are going to leak exactly?
If the bolts are large give them a lot of muscle. If they're small then avoid overtightening and stripping. I don't see why you need more than those basic guidelines that people generally follow.
@LegendLength sometimes you need to apply the certain amount of preload to a bolt for it to function as designed, otherwise it might fail during operation in many different ways. A leak usually isn't the main concern
True. Though my transmission pan bolts are supposed to be torqued to 3.6 pounds. Most torque wrenches start at 10-20 ft lbs. The very lowest I've seen goes down to 5, so in my case the fish scale works better.
@@elliotthope1or get an inch lb torque wrench. 6 ft lbs = 72 inch lbs (pretty sure I made less than $20 for mine at the auto parts store, I image Amazon or Temu may be cheaper).
I use this rather than buying a bunch of adapters and open crowfoot spanner pieces which I'll rarely use.
Clever!
Hi great video and since then I use pretty much any tool that I have for a torque wrench. You have to divide the deemed force by the length of the tool in feet or meters depending on the scale you are using. So that would be kilograms-force required divided by length of the tools IN meters (e.g. 23 cm would be 0.23 meters) -> you get the kilograms that you need to weigh with the scales. That's for kilogram-force meter example. Same for pound-force foot - you divide the required force by the length of the tool IN feet.
For kgf you also need to divide by G
@@cosminnemes7364 G is included in kg or pound per se
@@petar-boshnakov isn’t N = kg • g ?
@@cosminnemes7364 sorry you are correct but it is pointless to do si. Usually the force specs are with a greater amount of error
Would it make sense to use 30pounds on a 6" ratchet instead of a 12", for 15footpounds of force? So twice as much force with half the length?
Monica Pearson Great question! Torque decreases as the arm length decreases. So, applying 30lbs of force on a 6" arm (0.5 feet) results in 15 foot pounds of torque (or 30lbs X 0.5ft). I believe this is what you were saying. Im just confirming. Hope that helps!
Ryan C Perfect! Thank you! Yes, I just wanted a confirmation that that made sense. You and your video made it possible for me to do smaller and accurate torque settings on my mopeds 😜 without a dime spent. Great vid!!👍👍👍
Ryan C so i just wanted to ask a followup question: if i had a 2foot arm-length and i applied 10lbs of force, would that then equate to 20 foot pounds of torque?
tanwir h I know you made this comment 10 months ago, but I wanted to say I believe your calculation is correct. The equation is:
(Pounds shown on the luggage scale x inches from center of bolt to luggage scale handle) / 12
Also, make sure the luggage scale is pulling perpendicular to the bar on the wrench.
Hope this helps!
The perfect Q&A! You UA-cam people are amazing. I couldn't use anything but a special open ended ring spanner for a leaking diesel injector pipe end. Had no idea how to measure torque without my torque wrench. Spanner is less than 12 inches, so the original video and this Q&A has resolved everything. Now to apply & test. 🤞 And if it's still leaking after, at least I know it's a replacement pipe I need.
Thank you.
Michael Kusjanovic thank you!
In theory, couldn’t you hook the scale the other way while pushing down on the breaker bar to get the same result without strain on the scale?
Yeah but then the scale wouldn't read anything as no force isn't pulling on it...
Wow
Yeah like what if I put the meat directly on the stove to avoid overheating the pan?
Great video. What's the formula for calculating "weight" needed for "length" to get "specified torque"? Meters/kg would work best for me (else I need to convert it again, making it more error-prone). Thanks!
The same principle applies, but instead, your measurements will be in kilograms and meters. The force applied (in kg) multiplied by the arm length (in meters) will yield your torque.
Now, if the torque you are being told to achieve is in inches/feet/pounds, but you only have metric tools, the answer is STILL simple. All you have to do is convert the imperial measurements to metric measurements to determine the parameters of the torque.
Thanks deadpool!
Now torque wrench makers will be hunting you down
also include the weight of the tool or lever
Was looking for this comment, thx
ok so if i were to half the distance would I double the weight? I'm using newton meters and I've got a 10cm long Allen key to make 7 newton meters of torque. with this 10cm Allen key would I have to apply 70 newtons (7kg)?
If the weighing scale measures kg, you need to multiply it with 9.8 and then multiply it with the distance you are exerting the force at, which would be 0.1 m in your case.
So for your particular scenario weight in kg that the scale needs to show should be 7.14 kg
Just noticed your working, 7kg is a good estimate also I think you don't need it anymore (3months later 😉l
What about the weight of the ratchet? I think this magic shuld be done horizontally...
rachets wont weight more than 2-3 kg depending on the angle. 2Nm of torque more I think is acceptable in almost every scenario I can think were a torque wrench would be necessary. But yea, doing it horizontally would be more accurate indeed.
Go ahead and just buy a $15 click type torque wrench. The cheapest ones get a lot good reviews. I just got a new 1/4 drive for $12. I checked the torque values using techniques seen here on UA-cam. It's pretty much spot on.
Cool
What about inch pounds?
This is a clever in the moment way to know how much torque used, but how about an axle nut on Cayenne which requires 340ft lb? Would rather not get the run around from the mechanic telling me to keep coming back or buy a 250 dollar wrench that I will use maybe twice more throughout the ownership of the vehicle. Any ideas for much higher torque range? Thanks for this video and any help.
Torque = distance * force
So to do 340ft/lb with a small scale all you can do is make at 5 times the distance from the nut so 5ft will require 340/5 = 68 ft on scale.
The dificult part is finding a wrench which is 5ft long but you can make one i guess
That scale with its little chain probably not gonna work to torque my axle nuts to 295 ft/lbs
Does the wrench have to be a foot long to make it foot pounds? Is that what the word foot refers to?
Yes. You could use a 16” breaker bar & socket or a 16” wrench, but you’ll want the measuring scale or device located at the foot mark (12” away from the center of the bolt or nut) on your torquing tool of choice. You can use a 4’ breaker bar in theory, if you really wanted to, but make sure your pressure/measurement device is hooked onto that tool at or around the 12”/1’ line that you’ve pre-measured and drawn a line of some sort on your actual tool to know where you’ll need to hook that device at while you’re pulling down.
00:00 proton pack?
Will it work on 400lb
Another quick question about your video. To where exactly would I measure from on a ratchet? Would it be to the very end of the ratchet or to the middle of the piece that the sockets click into?
one foot away from the bolt so wherever that turns out to be on your ratchet
From the center of the socket. If you have a one inch socket, at the center it would be half an inch. So you measure another 11 and a half inches from the edge of the socket to where you place your 1ft marker
But how would you use this method with a shorter ratchet or spanner let's say 8" long
Maths? Google what torque is and how to calculate it?
I got two things out of your video for an idiot-proof task: #1 I am an idiot. #2 you saved me at least a hundred bucks.
You can buy a 3/8 inch torque wrench for less than 20 bucks. Check Harbor Freight.
How high does the gauge your using go to?
That scale tops out at 50lbs
Hi m8 so my wrench only goes up 2 200nm & i need 2 tighten 2 280nm how do i do this?
i think that you have to double the lenght and use half the force. So use a 2 feet wrench (add a tube), and pull up to 140nm
@@diridaxta unfortunatly 140 still isn t 280, you d have to aplly 140 N to a 2 m long wrench (shorter means higher force), the kg= N/g ~= 9.8
Could you apply this method to a 340lb ft torque on a axle nut?
ofc you can
no...might as well buy a wrench lmao
There are 3/8” torque wrenches on Amazon for under $25. Just sayin.
Ghost Wrench totally. Well worth the investment!
But I don't own a breaker bar or a fish scale..
For the algo
Sound principals, but ANYTHING important? Yers!! The $14.00 dollar fish or luggage scale. why I'd trust my life to that thing.
Now lets see 150 ft pounds
Omg.
This is wrong. Torque is force multiplied by perpendicular distance. The force is mass multiplied by acceleration.
Torque = radius x force. It is correct.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torque
I used this to torque a bolt and I snapped it ! Invest in a 25$ torque wrench instead. This method is wrong, inaccurate and dangerous.
xxxx
ఆ ఆi love u girl.
Who else came here because we are to cheap to buy one yet spend thousands on our ar15 builds?
Priorities
I got two things out of your video for an idiot-proof task: #1 I am an idiot. #2 you saved me at least a hundred bucks.
Careful! I'm an idiot, too : /