The SLICE-KICK Serve Does NOT Exist
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
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In today’s video, I discuss why the slice kick serve does not exist and what you should develop instead.
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Hmm, I wish he talked more about slice serves with varying levels of top spin. That's what I think about when people say kick slice.
You showed how a kick serve is in fact a 3/4 topspin 1/4 sidespin serve. Likewise, the slice serve is 3/4 side spin and 1/4 topspin.
Of course you can't have both: the axis of rotation can only be 1.
But if course you can have an axis of rotation in between that of a kick serve and a slice serve. And you could call that a kicky slice or a slicy kick.
Now you also show that the whole mechanics are different and so such a half baked slice/kick serve is probably not a good idea. Better choose one type of mechanics.
So rather than saying it doesn't exist, I'd say: just don't go there.
Sidespin on the serve is completely different. It’s the opposite of slice.
You can’t have both, topspin and slice. If the rotation is horizontal, it’s only then when the serve has slice. There can however be varying degrees of spin depending on impact angle (vertical rotation of the ball). Get a a topspin pro and play around with it and you’ll get the grasp of it.
@@IntuitiveTennis Nick, sidespin and slice on the serve describe the same thing.
@@IntuitiveTennis I play table tennis, which is all about spin, so rotational axes don't confuse me. In tennis, what's called the slice is having a mostly vertical axis of rotation, so that the ball curves sideways, i.e. it has mostly side spin. A kick serve has a more horizontal axis of rotation, giving topspin. Indeed you can't have both at the same time, but your axis of rotation can take up any position in between, so that it has a spin between topspin and sidespin.
This is true in table tennis, where the top+side serve exists. In tennis, it must exist too, since ball rotation is physics, not dependent on the kind of sport. Now whether it's something to aim for, that I don't know. You're the expert on that. But when you say a slice serve is not side spin or there's no continuum in the axis of rotation, as a professional scientist I beg to differ.
@@miguelbarahona6636 Sidespin is never used on the serve (only when player a goofing around). Usually the other side of the strings is used to make the ball spin in the opposite direction of a slice serve.
@@IntuitiveTennis Nick, you´re confusing people unnecesarily. Sidespin is another way of saying slice. You´re talking about the reverse slice serve when you hit with the outer face of the racket, instead of the inner face, so the ball curves the other way (I remember Rosol serving like this against Ferrer).
Sorry Nick, I just rewatched one of your older kick serve videos and you emphasized staying more sideways on the kick serve. Always clear and concise videos. Thank you!
Nice explanation and video. I would also add that on a kick (topspin) serve the player needs to stay sideways longer at contact in order to promote a swing path to the right side for right handers, to the right of the net post.
Excellently articulated
Thanks Nik. As always clear and concise explanation. Agree that the kicker is a far more reliable second serve option.
Waw, great in detail explanation as always Nick ! Thanks for this,
Perfect Nik! 🔥
Hi Nik - so if you brush up at 45 degrees you have some top and also some slice - correct..?
I have the same tennis shoes as Nikola. And that's about everything we have in common tennis-wise🤣.
It's absolutely amazing how you come up with such a versatilty of technical topics. Keep up the good work😎
🫶
Early! Thank you for the hard work as usual!
Always!
I am still learning the first serve. Great video Nick! 😀
You can do it!
You can do it!
I'm the opposite. I learned the second serve first because I had to have a reliable way to get the ball in. Then I gradually flatten out to get more speed for the 1st serve.
Only two things matter; path and face angle. There can be any combination of spin and direction which is why there can be a flat slice and a topspin slice. Or a straight serve with topspin or hit flat. Describing topspin as "kick" is inaccurate and confusing.
I think the guys speak, when you try to hit a kick, but you throw the ball between 12 and 1 o'clock, which is wrong for a kick serve. Then a proper kick can't be made, but something between kick and slice happens-it is a serve, which has elements of both kick and slice - a "klice" :) Happens when players learn both slice and kick at earlier stages of their overall technique of these serves. :)
Great video! Did you change racquets? It looks different from your pure drives in other videos.
Still his Babolat Pure Drive +, but just spray painted white.
@@dustyroot4708 Thanks for the info. Is a white frame becoming more popular?
Brilliantly illustration
well there is slick' sever - slice + kick, i do it all the time.
i dont know if you are being serious or you are just joking......
What if swingvision consistently reads your kick serve as a slice?
So, is it not possible to have a ball with topspin+sidespin to bounce to the right (for right handers)? Take Nadal's banana forehands for example: he hits them on the run, low to high + out and away from his body which makes the ball curve back in. The way the racket strikes the ball would exactly be the same as hitting a kick serve as you describe it (3/4 topspin).
How spin makes the ball accelerate:
- A ball moving forward spinning clockwise around a vertical axis (would be like a lefty's slice serve) would pull to the right in the air as the air pressure is greater on its left side. It strikes the ground with forward + right velocity so it bounces to the right (predictably)
- A ball with topspin is pulled down so it strikes the ground faster than its flat counterpart. So it bounces higher than it would without spin.
- Simply combining these two would result in a ball being pulled down and curves to the right. So it bounces high but still to the right.
- How the kick serve makes the ball change directions results from the topspin being applied in a different axis:
- A right hander hitting a kick serve hits the ball from 7 to 1 but also stays sideways. Normally a ball with topspin has its spin axis from 9 to 3 when looked from the top. But a kick serve would have it rotated slightly clockwise (so it would maybe be 11 to 5). That is what creates the "change" in direction. The ball dips down and jumps but it wasnt coming straight to begin with.
Aren’t people referring to when the ball is spinning one way and then it bounces and spins the other way? What is that then?
Super video 🏆🎾🏆
🙏
Hi coach, this may not have much to do with this video but I wanted to ask you a quick question about racquet weight.
About the weight ranges that you recommended in a past video, are they unstrung weights or the final strung weights with everythin (grips, etc) in place?
Im an intermediate rec player and my racquet’s unstrung weight is 285g but after putting strings and grips, its now 320g.
I have seen in other videos of yours and a few other coaches where you mention slight adjustments of the grip on kick, etc. Would it be helpful to achieve a more consistent kick by very slightly moving your grip to a more extreme continental so like a bit towards the left side of bevel 1. I know it helps generate more spin which gives more bite to it but im just wondering if it makes that much of a difference. Thank you
That is a sweet paint roller. do you do cabinets too? 🤣 Dig your stuff.
Slice is under spin. Slice can have angled spins like the 3/4 topspin. But a 3/4 slice is under spinning. Nick is right, you can’t have an underspinning ball with topspin. What’s happening is people are misinterpreting the side spin on their top spinning serves as slice but their serves are actually spinning top to bottom just tilted on its axis more dramatically.
Hi Nick, could you tell me please which platform/site I can get in touch with you to send you some of my video serves for analysis (if you offer such kind of services) ? Thanks
Link in description
Help me with my serve
The slow serve as a second... can you kick properly when you're short?
Yes
@@IntuitiveTennis Any adjustments needed due to height? Hitting upwards more for instance?
Ofc it does. I make it by accident 😅
Great explanation sir...
This really cleared my mind about this subject. Thank you.
Great video and explanation as always! I do have a suggestion for future serve-related videos: it could be helpful to also show the different serves from the receiver's perspective.
ua-cam.com/users/shortsN5G-IXomQ1U?feature=share
This explains a lot, thank you!
Hi Nick. Tennis Warehouse University says "spin can be regarded as a vector with magnitude and direction and can be regarded as having vertical and horizontal components or separate sidespin and topspin components." So the slice-kick serve exists. (They also say slice = sidespin)
Were you the guy with the Sidespin glossary? So picture this: You step up with the intent to slice. The ball doesn’t curve to the left after the bounce. What happened? You didn’t hit slice and most likely made the ball rotate vertically. A ball that’s going to curve to the left after the bounce needs a 100% horizontal rotation as demonstrated on the topspin pro. Anything with a vertical rotation is a topspin serve (the more vertical = the more spin you get). Here is an example of a slice serve ua-cam.com/users/shortsEUwm69uCSPg?feature=share
As someone who’s plays tennis and hits both serves that’s literally impossible
I heard Richard Krajicek say that he hit a topslice serve against Sébastien Grosjean in the Miami Final on matchpoint though… I think he knows what he’s talking about and that was not slow…
This serve does exist
That’s literally impossible
@@hafadaze9046 it’s not, just give it a google on how to do it
Opelka has the wicked kick rn. Imo
I love this video, Nik!
I just recover from Covid, but a few weeks ago, I started learning kick serve. My goal for 2023 is to become LK10 in Germany that should be somewhere NTRP 4.5. The kick serve seems to be a very relevant part to get there.
Keep going 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥