I like the suggested changes. But this far into the edition with codexes as thematic as Orks and CSM, I can't help but wonder what they would do if they scrapped the existing detachment and started over. I had thought the implication is that Fists and Iron warriors are the hammer and the anvil, but somehow IW wound up with the durability buff while Fists, as per usual, get an ability that is schizophrenic for the goals of the game and their other tools. In watching some of the Voxcast podcasts Warhammer Community used to do a couple years ago, one common theme is that many of the designers and even BL authors have a soft spot for the Fists. I think this really came through in the 7th edition supplement where we got some lore about them being second most prolific geneseed after Ultramarines with a 60/30/10 split across the founding legions as well as having some more rare equipment like the oldest surviving battle barge and certain siege oriented STCs. I think they're a quiet favorite, but the design team is terrified to favor them too much and mary-sue the faction so they make them a deliberate underdog instead. All speculation, of course, but drips of information over years of playing have lead me to think so. With all of that said, Space Marine Steve from Play On Tabletop has been successful running the Anvil Siege Force detachment at at least 1 GT recently. By both ironically and unironically building a list that closely resembles the contents of the Fists Bastion Strike Force box and with some very canny use of the detachment strats, he's been able to do quite well. Space Marine Steve Fists (2000 points) Space Marines Imperial Fists Strike Force (2000 points) Anvil Siege Force CHARACTERS Apothecary Biologis (70 points) • 1x Absolvor bolt pistol 1x Close combat weapon • Enhancement: Stoic Defender Captain in Gravis Armour (105 points) • 1x Boltstorm gauntlet 1x Power fist 1x Relic blade • Enhancement: Architect of War Tor Garadon (90 points) • Warlord • 1x Artificer grav-gun 1x Hand of Defiance BATTLELINE Heavy Intercessor Squad (200 points) • 1x Heavy Intercessor Sergeant • 1x Bolt pistol 1x Close combat weapon 1x Heavy bolt rifle • 9x Heavy Intercessor • 9x Bolt pistol 9x Close combat weapon 7x Heavy bolt rifle 2x Heavy bolter Heavy Intercessor Squad (100 points) • 1x Heavy Intercessor Sergeant • 1x Bolt pistol 1x Close combat weapon 1x Heavy bolt rifle • 4x Heavy Intercessor • 4x Bolt pistol 4x Close combat weapon 3x Heavy bolt rifle 1x Heavy bolter Heavy Intercessor Squad (100 points) • 1x Heavy Intercessor Sergeant • 1x Bolt pistol 1x Close combat weapon 1x Heavy bolt rifle • 4x Heavy Intercessor • 4x Bolt pistol 4x Close combat weapon 3x Heavy bolt rifle 1x Heavy bolter OTHER DATASHEETS Aggressor Squad (240 points) • 1x Aggressor Sergeant • 1x Auto boltstorm gauntlets 1x Fragstorm grenade launcher 1x Twin power fists • 5x Aggressor • 5x Auto boltstorm gauntlets 5x Fragstorm grenade launcher 5x Twin power fists Eradicator Squad (95 points) • 1x Eradicator Sergeant • 1x Bolt pistol 1x Close combat weapon 1x Melta rifle • 2x Eradicator • 2x Bolt pistol 2x Close combat weapon 1x Melta rifle 1x Multi-melta Eradicator Squad (95 points) • 1x Eradicator Sergeant • 1x Bolt pistol 1x Close combat weapon 1x Melta rifle • 2x Eradicator • 2x Bolt pistol 2x Close combat weapon 1x Melta rifle 1x Multi-melta Inceptor Squad (130 points) • 1x Inceptor Sergeant • 1x Close combat weapon 1x Plasma exterminators • 2x Inceptor • 2x Close combat weapon 2x Plasma exterminators Inceptor Squad (130 points) • 1x Inceptor Sergeant • 1x Close combat weapon 1x Plasma exterminators • 2x Inceptor • 2x Close combat weapon 2x Plasma exterminators Land Raider Crusader (230 points) • 1x Armoured tracks 1x Hunter-killer missile 2x Hurricane bolter 1x Multi-melta 1x Storm bolter 1x Twin assault cannon Predator Destructor (130 points) • 1x Armoured tracks 1x Hunter-killer missile 2x Lascannon 1x Predator autocannon 1x Storm bolter Repulsor Executioner (220 points) • 1x Armoured hull 1x Heavy onslaught gatling cannon 1x Icarus rocket pod 1x Ironhail heavy stubber 1x Macro plasma incinerator 1x Repulsor Executioner defensive array 1x Twin Icarus ironhail heavy stubber 1x Twin heavy bolter Scout Squad (65 points) • 1x Scout Sergeant • 1x Bolt pistol 1x Boltgun 1x Close combat weapon • 4x Scout • 4x Bolt pistol 2x Boltgun 4x Close combat weapon 1x Missile launcher 1x Scout sniper rifle
Thanks for taking the time to check out the vid and share a lengthy comment! I don't keep up with competitive 40k results, so this bit of info was insightful!
I love what you did here for fist. It isn’t just stronger and fixes several issues, but feels thematic. If you are interested in am working on a detachment for iron hands, because iron storm feels very much like a tank force and not a durability focused one. It feels like it better represents the iron hand successors you saw in the meta of 9th. Instead i am writing it to focus on durability and hitting back with bionic might. That and screwing around with what I want from a detachment and chapter tactics.
@@notknightbean you could share it on my Discord with an '@' I do have a dev your 40k channel in the server. But if you don't want to publicly share you can DM me on Discord. Or DM on IG if that's easier.
this kind of deeper analysis content for 40k is really interesting, even if this just suggested rules changes, it helps me with my understanding of the game at large
I've always valued a faction's ability to do something consistently. While bolter drill was still dice based, it still had a degree of reliability. You could count on taking down infantry without the need for artillery, etc. But the design team specifically noted in the last Metawatch interview that they don't want the mechanics to be that reliable. It's frustrating.
My basic fix list for Pact of Zealots. 1. Lore and Core. This chaos codex is for the undivided legions of chaos. This means they don’t worship any god or they do as a whole all 4 equally to some degree as possible. Otherwise one or more of the chaos gods would get angry and chaos spawn the leaders. 2. Every detachment in the codex except Pact can use any mark and use anything such as their main 6+ sustain/lethal, enhancements and Strats except Pact. 3. The idea behind it is that they can get a stronger main ability and Strats if they choose a specific mark or they can all have weakened Strats and etc if they stay undivided. This idea has merit but is flawed and is carried out in a way that goes against the very principle of being undivided. 4. Here is my basic fix premise. Characters can gain more favor when calling upon any of the gods compared to just a unit. Pact Main is 6+ like every other detachments unless it is led by an HQ which grants a 5+ your choice lethal/sustain regardless of mark. This allows greater strength option for a unit on what to use but limits it to a unit that has an HQ. This also will reduce the ability for vehicles such as ForgeFiend to only have 6+ lethal/sustain as they don’t have an hq to join them. However it could be allowed for a vehicle if an hq is in the vehicle such as a land raider. Vehicles should still be marked accordingly to match the same mark of a unit inside. 5. Enhancements should be the ONLY thing where an HQ has to pick a specific mark to get a mark created item. Undivided should have one as well such as re roll 1,2’s to hit. 6. Strats. The basic Strat level should be for units without an HQ. The stronger level should be for units with an HQ to call upon the gods. This would give strength and weakness to the pact but also provided a more themed undivided detachment similar to the rest of the detachments.
I think the core rule could use something that incentivizes smart movement, instead of no movement. Maybe along the lines of "If a unit moved into cover/onto an objective, they get the core rules". To tune it down, maybe limit it to infantry/batteline units get that part of the effect only. Not being able to move infantry is punishing for the way that games normally play, while having vehicles be stationary can be more of a strategic choice given good positioning and a large portion of vehicles having at least the range to reach out to enemy units.
Ya know I had this idea where they could literally just copy the mindset they had for canoptek court, cept call it fortified zones it would work similarly in the sense that if you have 2 or more no man's the zone grows from deployment and allows (heavy) keyword weapons +1 to wound done! You could add maybe a bit more to the detachment ruleset for units directly on a point like -1 to wound against ranged attacks.
This is great. Good vision. Those would be my changes (mixed with yours) Fleet commander: can designate a unit within 12" to overwatch for 0CP AND if weapon have bolt keyword, get an extra AP. Architect of war: same with add 6" to weapons equipped by unit if bolt keyword. I would remove the reactive shooting for a 1CP strat: target an infantry unit, it counts as remained stationary (even if advance as long as you have assault weapons) No threat to great: stay 2CP, same, but add get an extra AP if bolt keyword.
I like it. Thanks for sharing!! Choosing to lean into bolt weapons more feels like a good choice. Fleet commander, does seem like a better spot for bolt weapons! I was hesitant to include a mechanism to count as stationary as I felt it may lead to the intended hook being ignored, but if its metered by assault and isn't a strat you could pop twice a round it wouldn't have that problem...🤔 Should there be enough of an interest in this .pdf I just may need to roll some of these into a future update. .👍
@@WhatThe40k I really like that PDF. Very thematic. I'll tweak it for my home crusade. Now I'm counting on you to look at the Fellhammer Siege-Host 😉 and give it flavor. It's hard to not want to play Iron Warriors like Anvil Siege Force...
It's just that I feel weird having a 'funner' (more fun) game ar home with my son playing crusade than vs some of my friends (some of those are very sticklers for rules and stuff, like we're in competition)
I look forward to trying it. I'm big on fists and am knee deep in a crusade feeling tied to anvil. Its honestly working ok, but the biggest problem is the lack of units that have heavy. Vehicle wise, it's only the heavy laser destroyer. Everything else is infantry. Intercessors... Ok Hellblasters are legit. Eliminators are ok. Eradicators - I don't have any Desolators - don't have any Tacticals - not running any Scouts - probably the best beneficiaries Devastators - great but why 4+ BS? Why weird leadership options? So yeah... I just have some dudes laying down cover fire with +1 to wound while storm speeders and assault intercessors and dudes in impulsors charge up the field.
Funnily enough I was thinking of it. This script did originally have a segment where I speak to the Unforgiven detachment similarly, mentioning the balance dataslate changes may likely be inadequate and if there is interest I'd consider doing a similar video for it. But once I recorded everything, I cut it for time.😅
@@WhatThe40k awesome, I am interested if no one else 🤣 Unforgiven definitely has some issues with the detachment rule, and the strats are pretty good although the requirement for battleshock for a bunch of them is a bit much. Inner circle seems a lot better now, but I think there is little to no support for dreadnoughts/landraiders/impulsors being deathwing. It’s a bit awkward that nearly everything, the detachment rule, enhancements, and stratagems all but one are targeted to deathwing infantry/characters and nothing else.
Its an interesting idea! It did cross my mind but I was hesitant to provide a mechanic which would serve ignoring the core hook of the detachment. I wonder if it needs to be metered in some way.🤔 Or maybe, the lack of moving is still fundamentally to taxing and so such a strat becomes necessary 😅
@@WhatThe40k I don't think it ignores the hook as much as allows you to actually use it. You say yourself that this is an edition that requires units to run around the battlefield to achieve objectives. This sort of strat would allow that and allow the benefit of the detachment.
I think your hand of dorn should give critical 5s for the unit while overwatching. And once per game they can overwatch for free even if another unit has used the stratagem.
That could work as well. And honestly, I don't disagree. But crit 5s is already part of the Battle Drill Recall stratagem.... Making these sorts of .pdfs and vids have a weird balance to them. In part I feel if I disregard the *official* rules completely there will be less regard for what I propose. What do you think?
Give me a reason to play fists besides Tor and Lysander - who I can't really run in crusade anyways. Give me a thunderfire cannon or breachers or something.
100%. The open nature of 10th editions detachments gives GW a 'shield' to use when they do subpar work for a given subfaction's rules. "Imperial Fists can use any detachment". In their eyes fielding Tor or Lysander is what makes your army Imperial Fists. Just like how the Emperors Children must field Lucius in order to be Emperor's Children. Another blow to the narrative for the sake of competitive.
What it means is that to get the +1 to wound the weapon can meet any one of the criteria. So the Predator Bolters will gain Heavy+ because it is a Bolt weapon. And a Plasma gun without Heavy would gain it for have 7+ strength
Becuase I believe in 8 edition they gave you exploding 6s at the time the unmodified rule was not main stream idea and SM had multiple way to stack +1 to hit and rerolls.and other shenanigans. So hmm a few extreme players ruined that for you all. And you have been on time out every since. Remember If you hurt GW 2nd favorite cash cow knights. You will get put into time fir a very long time. XD
Indeed. 😅Likely this is a result of my philosophy on detachment toolkits. Since I prefer for subfaction rulesets to provide a unique flavor and hook that makes them distinct relative to their peers (when I fight Imperial Fists' I know I must account for X,Y, and Z, which is different to the Raven Guard's A,B,C), it leads me towards using enhancement to serve such ends. Detachment stratagems while adequate are fighting for use between core stratagems, which as time has gone on, I feel like have begun to like less and less.....But I digress.
When ever I get interested in a space marine faction, I get the paints….. and put it on one of my nightlords’s arms, some of them are half salamander, half imperial fists, or a normal piece of shit nightlords
Indeed it is! I've always found the official art to look to have a bit of a 'small head mode' look to it. I like to have fun with thumbnails when I can. 😅
Yeah, the anvil siege and fellhammer siege are both disappointments this edition. I feel like the rules design team loses interest in some factions and so they get rules that aren't satisfying to play. The designers pass their boredom onto us!
I like the suggested changes. But this far into the edition with codexes as thematic as Orks and CSM, I can't help but wonder what they would do if they scrapped the existing detachment and started over. I had thought the implication is that Fists and Iron warriors are the hammer and the anvil, but somehow IW wound up with the durability buff while Fists, as per usual, get an ability that is schizophrenic for the goals of the game and their other tools.
In watching some of the Voxcast podcasts Warhammer Community used to do a couple years ago, one common theme is that many of the designers and even BL authors have a soft spot for the Fists. I think this really came through in the 7th edition supplement where we got some lore about them being second most prolific geneseed after Ultramarines with a 60/30/10 split across the founding legions as well as having some more rare equipment like the oldest surviving battle barge and certain siege oriented STCs. I think they're a quiet favorite, but the design team is terrified to favor them too much and mary-sue the faction so they make them a deliberate underdog instead. All speculation, of course, but drips of information over years of playing have lead me to think so.
With all of that said, Space Marine Steve from Play On Tabletop has been successful running the Anvil Siege Force detachment at at least 1 GT recently. By both ironically and unironically building a list that closely resembles the contents of the Fists Bastion Strike Force box and with some very canny use of the detachment strats, he's been able to do quite well.
Space Marine Steve Fists (2000 points)
Space Marines
Imperial Fists
Strike Force (2000 points)
Anvil Siege Force
CHARACTERS
Apothecary Biologis (70 points)
• 1x Absolvor bolt pistol
1x Close combat weapon
• Enhancement: Stoic Defender
Captain in Gravis Armour (105 points)
• 1x Boltstorm gauntlet
1x Power fist
1x Relic blade
• Enhancement: Architect of War
Tor Garadon (90 points)
• Warlord
• 1x Artificer grav-gun
1x Hand of Defiance
BATTLELINE
Heavy Intercessor Squad (200 points)
• 1x Heavy Intercessor Sergeant
• 1x Bolt pistol
1x Close combat weapon
1x Heavy bolt rifle
• 9x Heavy Intercessor
• 9x Bolt pistol
9x Close combat weapon
7x Heavy bolt rifle
2x Heavy bolter
Heavy Intercessor Squad (100 points)
• 1x Heavy Intercessor Sergeant
• 1x Bolt pistol
1x Close combat weapon
1x Heavy bolt rifle
• 4x Heavy Intercessor
• 4x Bolt pistol
4x Close combat weapon
3x Heavy bolt rifle
1x Heavy bolter
Heavy Intercessor Squad (100 points)
• 1x Heavy Intercessor Sergeant
• 1x Bolt pistol
1x Close combat weapon
1x Heavy bolt rifle
• 4x Heavy Intercessor
• 4x Bolt pistol
4x Close combat weapon
3x Heavy bolt rifle
1x Heavy bolter
OTHER DATASHEETS
Aggressor Squad (240 points)
• 1x Aggressor Sergeant
• 1x Auto boltstorm gauntlets
1x Fragstorm grenade launcher
1x Twin power fists
• 5x Aggressor
• 5x Auto boltstorm gauntlets
5x Fragstorm grenade launcher
5x Twin power fists
Eradicator Squad (95 points)
• 1x Eradicator Sergeant
• 1x Bolt pistol
1x Close combat weapon
1x Melta rifle
• 2x Eradicator
• 2x Bolt pistol
2x Close combat weapon
1x Melta rifle
1x Multi-melta
Eradicator Squad (95 points)
• 1x Eradicator Sergeant
• 1x Bolt pistol
1x Close combat weapon
1x Melta rifle
• 2x Eradicator
• 2x Bolt pistol
2x Close combat weapon
1x Melta rifle
1x Multi-melta
Inceptor Squad (130 points)
• 1x Inceptor Sergeant
• 1x Close combat weapon
1x Plasma exterminators
• 2x Inceptor
• 2x Close combat weapon
2x Plasma exterminators
Inceptor Squad (130 points)
• 1x Inceptor Sergeant
• 1x Close combat weapon
1x Plasma exterminators
• 2x Inceptor
• 2x Close combat weapon
2x Plasma exterminators
Land Raider Crusader (230 points)
• 1x Armoured tracks
1x Hunter-killer missile
2x Hurricane bolter
1x Multi-melta
1x Storm bolter
1x Twin assault cannon
Predator Destructor (130 points)
• 1x Armoured tracks
1x Hunter-killer missile
2x Lascannon
1x Predator autocannon
1x Storm bolter
Repulsor Executioner (220 points)
• 1x Armoured hull
1x Heavy onslaught gatling cannon
1x Icarus rocket pod
1x Ironhail heavy stubber
1x Macro plasma incinerator
1x Repulsor Executioner defensive array
1x Twin Icarus ironhail heavy stubber
1x Twin heavy bolter
Scout Squad (65 points)
• 1x Scout Sergeant
• 1x Bolt pistol
1x Boltgun
1x Close combat weapon
• 4x Scout
• 4x Bolt pistol
2x Boltgun
4x Close combat weapon
1x Missile launcher
1x Scout sniper rifle
Thanks for taking the time to check out the vid and share a lengthy comment! I don't keep up with competitive 40k results, so this bit of info was insightful!
I love what you did here for fist. It isn’t just stronger and fixes several issues, but feels thematic.
If you are interested in am working on a detachment for iron hands, because iron storm feels very much like a tank force and not a durability focused one. It feels like it better represents the iron hand successors you saw in the meta of 9th. Instead i am writing it to focus on durability and hitting back with bionic might. That and screwing around with what I want from a detachment and chapter tactics.
Thanks! And yes I'd love to give it a gander. I think your assessment with the IH is true.
@@WhatThe40k do you have a place I can contact you?
it is a long document with some lore blurbs.
@@notknightbean you could share it on my Discord with an '@' I do have a dev your 40k channel in the server. But if you don't want to publicly share you can DM me on Discord. Or DM on IG if that's easier.
It makes you realise how complex the rules really are. My brain is melting 😂
this kind of deeper analysis content for 40k is really interesting, even if this just suggested rules changes, it helps me with my understanding of the game at large
Happy to hear you found the video useful😊
I feel like they could just make all the bolt guns +1 to wound default would make the detachment much better.
I've always valued a faction's ability to do something consistently. While bolter drill was still dice based, it still had a degree of reliability. You could count on taking down infantry without the need for artillery, etc. But the design team specifically noted in the last Metawatch interview that they don't want the mechanics to be that reliable. It's frustrating.
Hang on brothers we will have good rules one day
Only Brothers ? How about Sisters? ☮
We did once... before we shared the collective punishment for the Iron Hands sins
In the name of Dorn and the Emperor, we will endure.
I miss "Fortify objective marker" stratagem
My basic fix list for Pact of Zealots. 1. Lore and Core. This chaos codex is for the undivided legions of chaos. This means they don’t worship any god or they do as a whole all 4 equally to some degree as possible. Otherwise one or more of the chaos gods would get angry and chaos spawn the leaders. 2. Every detachment in the codex except Pact can use any mark and use anything such as their main 6+ sustain/lethal, enhancements and Strats except Pact. 3. The idea behind it is that they can get a stronger main ability and Strats if they choose a specific mark or they can all have weakened Strats and etc if they stay undivided. This idea has merit but is flawed and is carried out in a way that goes against the very principle of being undivided. 4. Here is my basic fix premise. Characters can gain more favor when calling upon any of the gods compared to just a unit. Pact Main is 6+ like every other detachments unless it is led by an HQ which grants a 5+ your choice lethal/sustain regardless of mark. This allows greater strength option for a unit on what to use but limits it to a unit that has an HQ. This also will reduce the ability for vehicles such as ForgeFiend to only have 6+ lethal/sustain as they don’t have an hq to join them. However it could be allowed for a vehicle if an hq is in the vehicle such as a land raider. Vehicles should still be marked accordingly to match the same mark of a unit inside. 5. Enhancements should be the ONLY thing where an HQ has to pick a specific mark to get a mark created item. Undivided should have one as well such as re roll 1,2’s to hit. 6. Strats. The basic Strat level should be for units without an HQ. The stronger level should be for units with an HQ to call upon the gods. This would give strength and weakness to the pact but also provided a more themed undivided detachment similar to the rest of the detachments.
I swear each time I pass the thumbnail the head gets even smaller, but these are fantastic ideas for the lists.
Thanks! Also I'm glad to hear the thumbnail is having its intended effect. 🤣
I love the thumbnail for this one
I think the core rule could use something that incentivizes smart movement, instead of no movement. Maybe along the lines of "If a unit moved into cover/onto an objective, they get the core rules". To tune it down, maybe limit it to infantry/batteline units get that part of the effect only. Not being able to move infantry is punishing for the way that games normally play, while having vehicles be stationary can be more of a strategic choice given good positioning and a large portion of vehicles having at least the range to reach out to enemy units.
This may just be the way to do it. A far less discouraging use of mechanics while still serving the theme. Thanks for sharing!! 😊
Well thought out. I like it. Would like to see Chaos changes
Ya know I had this idea where they could literally just copy the mindset they had for canoptek court, cept call it fortified zones it would work similarly in the sense that if you have 2 or more no man's the zone grows from deployment and allows (heavy) keyword weapons +1 to wound done! You could add maybe a bit more to the detachment ruleset for units directly on a point like -1 to wound against ranged attacks.
Interdasting! The controlling objectives to give those areas a term which provides a buff could work as the IF's hook quite well.
This is great. Good vision.
Those would be my changes (mixed with yours)
Fleet commander: can designate a unit within 12" to overwatch for 0CP AND if weapon have bolt keyword, get an extra AP.
Architect of war: same with add 6" to weapons equipped by unit if bolt keyword.
I would remove the reactive shooting for a 1CP strat: target an infantry unit, it counts as remained stationary (even if advance as long as you have assault weapons)
No threat to great: stay 2CP, same, but add get an extra AP if bolt keyword.
I like it. Thanks for sharing!! Choosing to lean into bolt weapons more feels like a good choice. Fleet commander, does seem like a better spot for bolt weapons! I was hesitant to include a mechanism to count as stationary as I felt it may lead to the intended hook being ignored, but if its metered by assault and isn't a strat you could pop twice a round it wouldn't have that problem...🤔 Should there be enough of an interest in this .pdf I just may need to roll some of these into a future update. .👍
@@WhatThe40k I really like that PDF. Very thematic.
I'll tweak it for my home crusade.
Now I'm counting on you to look at the Fellhammer Siege-Host 😉 and give it flavor. It's hard to not want to play Iron Warriors like Anvil Siege Force...
It's just that I feel weird having a 'funner' (more fun) game ar home with my son playing crusade than vs some of my friends (some of those are very sticklers for rules and stuff, like we're in competition)
I look forward to trying it.
I'm big on fists and am knee deep in a crusade feeling tied to anvil. Its honestly working ok, but the biggest problem is the lack of units that have heavy. Vehicle wise, it's only the heavy laser destroyer. Everything else is infantry.
Intercessors... Ok
Hellblasters are legit.
Eliminators are ok.
Eradicators - I don't have any
Desolators - don't have any
Tacticals - not running any
Scouts - probably the best beneficiaries
Devastators - great but why 4+ BS? Why weird leadership options?
So yeah... I just have some dudes laying down cover fire with +1 to wound while storm speeders and assault intercessors and dudes in impulsors charge up the field.
My idea was benefits on obj like to say in the idea that they are digging in and fortifying the objective
You should do this with the dark angel detachments!
Funnily enough I was thinking of it. This script did originally have a segment where I speak to the Unforgiven detachment similarly, mentioning the balance dataslate changes may likely be inadequate and if there is interest I'd consider doing a similar video for it. But once I recorded everything, I cut it for time.😅
@@WhatThe40k awesome, I am interested if no one else 🤣
Unforgiven definitely has some issues with the detachment rule, and the strats are pretty good although the requirement for battleshock for a bunch of them is a bit much.
Inner circle seems a lot better now, but I think there is little to no support for dreadnoughts/landraiders/impulsors being deathwing. It’s a bit awkward that nearly everything, the detachment rule, enhancements, and stratagems all but one are targeted to deathwing infantry/characters and nothing else.
Great suggestions. I don't play IF but would love to hear feedback from the community as well
I would ditch Rigid Discipline in favour of a strat that allows a unit to count as stationary even if it moved or advanced.
Its an interesting idea! It did cross my mind but I was hesitant to provide a mechanic which would serve ignoring the core hook of the detachment. I wonder if it needs to be metered in some way.🤔 Or maybe, the lack of moving is still fundamentally to taxing and so such a strat becomes necessary 😅
@@WhatThe40k I don't think it ignores the hook as much as allows you to actually use it. You say yourself that this is an edition that requires units to run around the battlefield to achieve objectives. This sort of strat would allow that and allow the benefit of the detachment.
I think your hand of dorn should give critical 5s for the unit while overwatching. And once per game they can overwatch for free even if another unit has used the stratagem.
That could work as well. And honestly, I don't disagree. But crit 5s is already part of the Battle Drill Recall stratagem.... Making these sorts of .pdfs and vids have a weird balance to them. In part I feel if I disregard the *official* rules completely there will be less regard for what I propose. What do you think?
I love the IF, but the rules are not great. I like the changes you propose.
Give me a reason to play fists besides Tor and Lysander - who I can't really run in crusade anyways. Give me a thunderfire cannon or breachers or something.
100%. The open nature of 10th editions detachments gives GW a 'shield' to use when they do subpar work for a given subfaction's rules. "Imperial Fists can use any detachment". In their eyes fielding Tor or Lysander is what makes your army Imperial Fists. Just like how the Emperors Children must field Lucius in order to be Emperor's Children. Another blow to the narrative for the sake of competitive.
That thumbnail tho, idk why the official artwork doesn’t have the correct head size. The model actually got it right for once lol
😂I couldn't resist having fun with the thumbnail.😂
how many strength 7 bolters exist? i don't get it
What it means is that to get the +1 to wound the weapon can meet any one of the criteria. So the Predator Bolters will gain Heavy+ because it is a Bolt weapon. And a Plasma gun without Heavy would gain it for have 7+ strength
Becuase I believe in 8 edition they gave you exploding 6s at the time the unmodified rule was not main stream idea and SM had multiple way to stack +1 to hit and rerolls.and other shenanigans. So hmm a few extreme players ruined that for you all. And you have been on time out every since. Remember If you hurt GW 2nd favorite cash cow knights. You will get put into time fir a very long time. XD
I like this but I feel that the enhancements are too autoinclude
Indeed. 😅Likely this is a result of my philosophy on detachment toolkits. Since I prefer for subfaction rulesets to provide a unique flavor and hook that makes them distinct relative to their peers (when I fight Imperial Fists' I know I must account for X,Y, and Z, which is different to the Raven Guard's A,B,C), it leads me towards using enhancement to serve such ends. Detachment stratagems while adequate are fighting for use between core stratagems, which as time has gone on, I feel like have begun to like less and less.....But I digress.
Please mr 40k youtuber sir make a video for a thematic Anvil Siege list 🙏
I'm pretty sure I did. 😅
stream?
Today? Maybe something light, like a gaming stream.
@@WhatThe40k :D
When ever I get interested in a space marine faction, I get the paints….. and put it on one of my nightlords’s arms, some of them are half salamander, half imperial fists, or a normal piece of shit nightlords
Looted gear ftw😎
Is that thumbnail meant to look ridiculous? The head looks way too small in the armour😂
Indeed it is! I've always found the official art to look to have a bit of a 'small head mode' look to it. I like to have fun with thumbnails when I can. 😅
🔥❤️🙌👍
Yeah, the anvil siege and fellhammer siege are both disappointments this edition. I feel like the rules design team loses interest in some factions and so they get rules that aren't satisfying to play. The designers pass their boredom onto us!