i mean, the thing is that he never did go through 'character development' to say, because he was always like that- i dont think his morals changed, it was just the different situations in which he took action in different ways. but true, the parallells are funny
like the prev reply, it was not a char dev. He was on a mission from tsarisa herself. And he would complete it whatever the consequences. All other times, he's just a chill dude wanting to fight powerful opponents.
I always compare Arlecchino to LITERALLY the grim reaper. She isn't really evil, but acts as a villain due to her position and is almost completely morally numb in order to achieve her goals. Plus she did literally say that she's willing to betray the fatui if they overstep her boundaries, she's just using them for her own goals. Just sooo calculated.
@@Jackson-ub1uvshe kinda is. Given that she is a head of one of the best and oldest intelligence units, which is under a certain threat of becoming less independent (Project Stuzha), she has no choice, but to be much more numb and calculative. she doesn’t want to be excluded, as her position gives her a lot of leverage and influence. Ofc, she still would retain such qualities, if she wouldn’t be a part of the House of the Hearth. However, the events there fundamentally shaped her as a person
@@user-ej8rp1hj9n Girl just needs therapy and to be told to get over herself, stop being an edgelord, and start fixing things; I mean, someone _needs_ to slap her face and tell her to get off her arse and win. If Doctor Who has taught me anything, it's that good things only happen when you _work_ for it, and that the measure of a good person is whether or not they're willing to commit everything to the protection of others no matter _how_ hopeless it is; in other words, a good person would do _everything they can_ to buy innocent people as much time as possible, even if it just amounts to an extra day, because the alternative is leaving them to die. Instead of complaining about life or taking the easy ways out, Arlecchino needs to just strap in and _act,_ because every second she wastes trying to come up with the perfect plan is one where more children are sent out to die.
@@Jackson-ub1uvshe’s not a good person, thats it, bcs few days bfore her release, hoyo tweet a quote that says Arle goal is something related to Crimson Moon and Snowflake, maybe thats the reason she will be betray The Tsaritsa in The Future
The Harbinger that fascinates me the most is Capitano. The way he's been described as this honorable, rightneous, reasonable man who holds absolute power yet uses it responsibly makes him feel like an odd duck. Every rank and file Fatui praises him and (based on Wanderer and Childe's voiceline) idolises him, both as a powerful warrior and beloved leader. Characters like Varka have spoken well about him and even fellow Harbingers have nothing bad to say about (like at all!). Childe has a few he's either unnerved by or dislike, but he admires Capitano's combat skills and wants to prove himself to him. Wanderer has a hard time trying to say something bad about him other than his absolute righteouness being a flaw. The only other person he uses this type of description is Nahida. Arlecchino acknowledges both his strength and believes him to be someone worthy of respect, irrespective of his power. In a way, he almost comes off like the completel antithesis of Dottore (And if his rank of no1 is true, then the parrallels are even more prominent.) If in Natlan, he lives up to his honorable status, then he's basically the noble demon trope. A good man in a shady organization.
I'd love to see that be his character, though I'm open to reveals or plot-twists to what we haven't yet known about him outside of what other characters have spoken of him.
This is why I love the way Genshin writes it's characters. The Fatui is not an uiformizied organization. It is made out of individuals, every one of them with their own moral code, personality, morals, motivations etc. (there are people there, who are evil- Dottore, people who just joined beause it was the only way they could survive- Lyney, or others who didn't even had any say in joining- Childe) In Genshin we don't really see the conflict of good/evil, in the traitional sense. What we see is the very complicated political game most of the Archons, and Fatui play against the Heavenly principles.
If that's true, then it also means that _none_ of the Harbingers have an excuse to be so cruel; such a development could serve as an exploration into _why_ the Fatui are so awful if they can get what they want through diplomacy and respect.
@@Jackson-ub1uv 'none of the Harbingers have an excuse to be so cruel;' Some of them don't want to be cruel. Like in case of Childe. He doesn't like to kill, but will do it if he is ordered (for ex, he didn;t kill any of the guards of the Golden House, nor the debt collectors in Fontaine, nor the treasur hoarders, not even the person who tried to run from his debt in Childe's teaser), and he would have chose another method of luring Rex Lapis out if it was up to him instead of releasing Osial. (conversation after we beat his Foul Legacy form) He likes to be honest, and straighforward, and doesn't like the methods of his fellow Harbingers because they use deception. But again Childe will lie, and deceive if he's ordered. He treats his men with respect and care unlike some (Signora killed his own men during training) to an extent that being put in Trataglia's squad is considered a honor among the Fatui. In case of Childe, idk if having morals and breaking them or not having them at all is better or worse.
@@PeruvianPotato the only reason why I'm still sticking around is because I like what Steel Wool is doing but otherwise I definitely would've done the same lol
Another note on signora, arlecchino describes how she used to get the kids to pretend to like her so she would give them gifts “Those who disliked shall receive none” and also calls her lonely. I really do feel sad that things turned out that way for her
In my opinnion, rather than classifying Childe as evil or not evil, I like to call him, driven, mf has one goal, and pretty much anything apart from his family and some friendds that gets in the way is meaningless to him, he seems kinda sociopathic to me, I actually really wish we get more on his morality later in the story , he's a really intresting character Edit - 11:30 Pretty much
I see Childe as a professional soldier. He does not kill if he doesn't have to (we have multiple times when he could have killed his opponent, like the Meillelith who guarded the Golden House, he just knocked them out), he doesn't like lying, deceviving, or hurting people who are weaker than him, and didn't do anything to warrant his violence etc. But he will do it if he's instructed by the Tsaritsa to do so. In the military you get an order, you have to doit, like it or not, because if you don't you'll be the one court marshalled. He didn't even wanted to release Osial (he said during the quest that he feared that it will come to this, and he pretty much regrets it), and did so after he figured out that Morax was alive.
@@pepita2437I think a lot of people also forget that childe released osial with the assumption that it would lure Morax out to come save the day. Correctly if I’m wrong but I remember him saying that himself. He didn’t do it out of pettiness. Still bad for obvious reasons, though.
@@chey1666 and it was a part of zhongli's attempt to prove that liyue can do fine without him being there to defend it so that he could retire.none of the unleashing osial stuff would have happened without zhongli's deal with the tsaritsa
Dottore is evil for sure but we still don't know enough about him and why he's so obsessed with human enhancements. Hoyo always cooks with mad scientist type of characters just look at Dr. MEI, Mobius, Vill V and Otto from Hi3rd. I also wouldn't say Scara is on his redemption arc, redemption arc implies he wants to do heroic things but he says it himself he will never be one of the good guys. He sees human relationships transactional which I think is common among harbingers.
i disagree that scara isn't in his redemption arc. maybe it's not a typical redemption arc where he ends up being a good guy or a hero, but it's about him righting past wrongs and taking accountability for the terrible things he's done in the past. in one of his character voice lines (i dont remember which one), he mentions that he wants to find descendants of the raiden gokaden and tell them to truth about what actually happened and tell them that he's the one responsible, and if they want to kill him or hurt him, then so be it. maybe he's not exactly trying to redeem himself, but it seems like he doesn't want to run away from the problems he caused and wants to take accountability for them
he's literally going on a redemption arc, but not one where he wants to be a good guy who helps everyone (i think he even told the traveler that he will never be one of the good guys). we saw him learn the truth of his past, we saw him wanting to make amends in a way where only HE would have been sacrificed, we saw him accept his past and the wrong he did while he wants to head towards a better path and that better path is finding the descendants of the people he hurt and telling them the truth and letting them decide whether to take revenge or not, we saw how he went from hating nahida and the traveler to respecting nahida and serving her + helping the traveler and starting a sort of friendship with them. the simulanka and akademiya events are where we have seen how much he has changed since recovering his memory. although he's still an awful person with everyone, he's now capable of helping others and even being the hero of the day if he's needed. he's still not a good person for everything he did (in the new sumeru event he doesn't even want to go to nahida's birthday because he thinks he doesn't deserve to go for what he did to her last year) but there's no denying that he's having a change of heart like hell he's even becoming friends with sethos😭, durin sees him as his hero and best friend and it's obvious that we're going to continue seeing more of that change because we know that he will probably meet kazuha to tell him the truth + he will help albedo save mondstad when the time is right.
Let us appreciate scara committing supoku after learning his entire life was him being (ironically) a puppet. Very sad. 500 years of trauma isn't something a few words can solve, especially when the main character doesn't like him enough to do talk no jutsu
It was so sad that no one catched him when he fell after having his heart stolen again. 😢 But its great that Nahida is taking care of him now. She made him go to school, hang out with people and was nice to him. His peers like him too, they celebrated his birthday, so sweet! 🥺 Im sure over time he will heal and open up more. Just like Xiao.
@@scaramouchiemoochExactly, tbh, he was the most poor treated character, and it’s perfect for Nahida to be his new mom, since both of them passed through similar things
For the most part, I agree with where you placed most of the harbingers. I would just move Arle slightly upwards mainly because I don't think people realize how on the whole "grooming child soldiers" she's kinda trapped between a rock and a hard place. She kinda got lucky that the tsaritsa pardoned her for killing Crucabena because I doubt the fatui would let someone who killed a harbinger run around free doing whatever they please. Also, the HoTH is very useful to the Fatui, so its not like Arle can stop providing child soldiers and the rest of the harbingers will be okay with that. Also in terms of her overall goals, I don't claim to know for sure because I have barely seen anyone mention this but I think at some point during her quest I think she mentioned how Clervie wished for the House of the Hearth to be a "real home" where no one died or was sacrificed. So I definitely she wants to separate the House of the Hearth from the Fatui at some point. And I think her "About Lyney" line affirms this. It also makes I think that Lyney will not succeed her as a harbinger but as the director of the House of the Hearth but I digress. In my opinion, Arle has a similar morality to Childe. They are both characters whose family is their main motivation. In fact, their story quests have very loose parallels as they both try to protect/prepare family members for the cruelties the world has to offer. But I also understand why you placed her where you did.
I can concede that she may have been stuck before, but the fact she refuses to do anything _after_ the Fontaine Archon Quests is inexcusable. Considering Fontaine is no longer useful to them, and the fact that they only need one more Gnosis, the Fatui would deem it a waste of soldiers and resources to try and take back a single orphanage.
@@Jackson-ub1uv I am sorry I don't quite follow. The house of the hearth is not just one "single orphanage." It's the Fatui's entire espionage department. So losing that is a huge blow to the fatui. Also, the HotH does not solely operate in Fontaine, you operate all over Teyvat. Fontaine is just their main branch.
@@Jackson-ub1uv My guy, The orphange is a branch of the fatui, not a separate entity it can't leave. Also the orphanage is financially dependant on the fatui. Do you think that Arle is pulling money out of thin air? No, the fatui financially supports the orphanage, but its very difficult to straight up leave the fatui .
@@applesauce4666 My guy, the end of Fontaine's Archon Quests leaves her on decent terms with the Spina di Rosula and Fontaine's government, so she has plenty of options. Neuvillette would be the best option as he'd be able to offer all of the funding needed, and I think the most he'd ask for is to have active Fatui agents be put on trial. Such a deal is incredibly generous, and one that Arlecchino would _have_ to take if she wanted to do what's best for the children; the orphanage would get all of the support it needs, and any convicted agents will be cared for in the Fortress of Meropide.
Scaramouche didn't stop killing the bladesmiths because he was bored. He stopped killing when one of them turned out to be Niwa's descendant. I'm not saying this makes him better (or worse), just pointing this out Also, there's a quest in Fontaine called "Questioning Melusine and Answering Machine" (slight SPOILERS) At the end of the quest, a person is left dead on the stage of the Opera House, his tongue torn out and a note left in his mouth. It was an apology letter written by a Harbinger interested in mechanisms, who's not Dottore (so, Sandrone mist likely). I'm very excited to know exactly why said Harbinger felt they needed to apologise to the Traveler
Husk of Opulent Dream states that he grew bored. It’s possible that the text is just reflecting his own excuses/justifications but it’s nonetheless what the text itself says.
@@1L1KEP0TAT0ES i think one of my personal favourite crack theories about Sandrone is that it's actually Alain Guillotin (the guy who created the Fontaine Research Institute and discovered Pneuma & Ousia) Let me explain: Firstly, the girl we see presented as Sandrone in the Teaser looks a lot like an adult version of Mary Ann Guillotin (Alain's sister) who died tragically in an explosion (the same one from which the Melusines were born). Alain himself was heavily involved with the research of machinery, and was a kind of genius in the field. He's known for creating Seymour (the vaguely sentient robot-dog) and clockwork Meka in general. In fact, most of Fontaine's technological progress is his achievement. His death, interestingly enough, is also not specified: he's known to have become a shut-in crazed with his research in his later years, and his final fate is unknown. (Sandrone is also a known shut-in btw). And now Sandrone for some reason felt the need to apologize to the Traveler, whom they haven't met or seemingly interacted with before in any way? The theory's explanation for this would be the Traveler's involvement in Narzissenkreuz Quest. The Traveler fixed Seymour, found and freed the remaining consciousness of Mary Ann Guillotin, and finished Alain's job by disposing of Narzissenkreuz. Again, this is a crack theory mostly held together by vibes, so don't take it too seriously
@@_dragonflies_ THISSS I HAVE BEEN OBSESSED WITH THIS no way that look is a coincidence, although I haven’t though much about Alain, thank you for this info! I think I’ll go an readership it more now :D
The people of Tataratsuma describe Scaramouche very well. He is indeed a blank slate. The Baladeer is the blank slate drawn on by Dottore and Ei. The Wanderer is same slate drawn on by Nahida.
He might have all the friendliness of a pissed off den of rattle snakes, but he's learning. It's slow, but he was at least good a sport enough in a festival to not immediately be after the goal and juat.. was there for his own amusement? And through him, Nahida is learning about how people can be at times
My opinion - Signora - Evil, Underdeveloped Tartaglia - Middle of the graph, Skirk and the “Foul Legacy” part is still a mystery. We are familiar with the name “Foul and Surtalogi” but not its connection. Balladeer - Somewhat evil, mostly developed, his revenge against Dottore still remains. Dottore - Pure evil, underdeveloped Arlecchino - Mostly developed, inbetween evil and good. Her dynasty’s origins and her real crazy self still remains though.
I agree more with the video’s placement of Childe. He’s certainly more developed than the middle of the x axis. We know most of his motives and still have room to create more stories. Though, he’s less developed than Wanderer because his arc is continuing (I’m not saying Wanderer’s arc is over, he has Abyss and maybe Irminsul, false sky connections too). Childe’s one of the most intriguing characters in Genshin and’s I’m scared they will ruin him in the future tbh, he has so much potential. I hope they don’t sideline him.
@@thomasraines1396 but he doesn’t involve in the plot. Itto is a comic relief, I don’t want that happen to Childe, at least, not when his arc is still going.
I really prefer villains to be villains and irredeemable and morally gray is also amazinhg and istg if dottore gets a sob story redemption bs ill be so pissed
Villains being nothing more usually leads to them just being obstacles/walls that the main character has to somehow overcome, they have their little moments here and there but as characters they're usually not that great
Perhaps I've left this too late, but I suppose it's relevant to this video. I've always felt a strange disconnect between how the Fatui and their Harbingers have been portrayed in the early game and how they're depicted now. I think this shift started some time around Sumeru when they actually attempted to make Scaramouche into a character and not some leering goon whose sole purpose is to be threatening, but with that pivot came a rather peculiar change. The Fatui - who all attack on sight in the overworld, no questions asked - are introduced as troublemakers at the best of times, and that's putting it lightly. Despite having political sway with Mondstadt, something one thinks would be deserving of consideration before any action was to be taken, they have no qualms with rocking up to the country's most sacred site, assaulting its god and robbing him blind. They had no reservations about attempting to steal the lyre, nor did the group contracted by the Lawrences seem to blanche at the prospect of destroying Mondstadt's leadership - this after the events of the main story, by the way, where the Fatui decided their presence was no longer necessary. Liyue then makes them worse by having them directly invade one of Teyvat's nations without care or concern for any collateral damage, their actions only being contained by the Traveler and their pals and (in the EN dub, at least) Childe not having any regard for what may happen after Osial is unleashed, and Inazuma makes them worse still, instigating a civil war and being responsible for who knows how much destruction and death, with Scaramouche and Signora being characterised as antagonistic, callous blowhards who care not a jot for the suffering they're causing. Dottore does them no favors, caring for nothing but the advancement of his own twisted form of scientific progress. Then something..._happens._ Suddenly, Scaramouche's character is explored, in an attempt to make him sympathetic - and yes, I know this was rooted in artifact sets introduced in Inazuma and that his character is turned away from the Fatui, point still stands. Suddenly, Arlecchino - the one member of the Harbingers everybody thought was a deranged maniac who kept her barely restrained madness in check under a fragile mask of civility - is perhaps the most reasonable Harbinger of them all outside of Capitano and it turns out the old conceptions of her exist because she allows them to, and the other Harbingers seemed to attribute Crucabena's actions to her. At least Childe did, and we did too, because it's the old Knave who was the real problem, turns out. The House of the Hearth kids are all likeable characters with noble goals and motives when before Fontaine we'd seen them do things like disrupt the foundation of nations, and kidnapping children to try and capture the Aranara in turn. There's been a very dramatic change towards trying to make the Fatui at large seem far more sympathetic than they've been shown to be previously, and in the process of this change, I think the folks in charge have just forgotten to make sense of how unrepentantly hostile the Fatui have been leading up to this. I think that's the cause for this disconnect.
I think I remember a comment from another video that said that Signora and Ei actually have a lot of paralles towards each other. I can't find the original comment, since its in a entirely different video that not part of your channel, but thats essentially what the comment said. Hoyo is really quite pick and choose-y with how "complex" they want each of their antagonists/villains to be presented as quite honestly, and sadly, Signora got shortest stick out of all the harbingers
@@The1andonlysharpshooter They can Pick Columbina and Reboot Dottore. Remember he has his segments that he has to remake now that they are all destroyed.
Scaramouche is literally a product of society. True he had the body of a small adult, but he was blank on the inside like a child. So society and the people he met made the ¨monster¨ we meet in the archon quest. That´s why I love his character so much
For more context in Signora's last words in CH and JP, the implications of her last words in this languages are tied to the promise Pierro made to her, she was determined to get out of Tenshukaku because if she indeed died there she was going be assimilated by the leylines of the current world, She wasn't supposed to died there because that wasn't the happily ever after that was promised to her 😢
I'd like a 2nd Wanderer video if he ever gets another major story development. His birthday cards (if canon), the Interdarshan Championship, lines about him and Sethos - it all makes it seem like he's coming out of his shell more. And I can't wait to see how he is in the summer event next patch.
Guess the Tsaritsa tolerates the likes of Crucabena and Dottere so long as they proven to be useful to her.To quote Lucas Grey from Hitman World Of Assassination,'Sometimes,even monsters serve a purpose'.
Tsaritsa is one thing but i still have no idea as to why the fuck Capitano is tolerating them, he seems more righteous and honorable so i wonder what's going on in his mind.
@@motemo8413 Mayhaps he doesn't know? I can see Dottore keeping his stuff a secret from him fully aware that the man can, and would, beat his ass for what he has done And as long as he is useful to the Tsaritsa, he will be ok in that regard
@@rebeccacourtney5286 well, not sure about this. Even if he didn’t give reports, and masked everything he does, I’m pretty sure some people in Fatui know it, and that he uses it as a punishment, not talking about Collei who left him but pretty sure she said something to Cyno, he passed to Lisa, she added 2+2 and so they know. Also, there’s Diluc, who also knows what Dottore is doing (at least he knew for some time) and despises him, and wouldn’t hide his secrets, I don’t believe he would hide it at least. Also, pretty sure some of the Fatui wondered about Krupp and why isn’t he serving Dottore anymore…
You're mentally ill if you believe Dottore is anything like Crucabena. FIrstly, we don't even know WHICH Dottore was at the House of the Hearth, it is more than likely a Segment, since I would find it difficult to believe Zandik would waste his time playing second fiddle to someone like Crucabena. However, the former HoTH still served a purpose, and likely, a segment who had a personality more along the lines of her is the one which was sent, we see they have different personalities from what the manhua offers in that younger Dottore (who most definitely is a Segment, especially considering the redesign and personality change, HE is a complete maniac, Zandik is not.) Zandik sees the bigger picture, just like the Tsaritsa, and we have gotten hints MANY times that Teyvat is essentially a simulation. To condemn Dottore/Zandik for what he does in the interest of saving humanity would be like condemning well, yourself, for what you do in the interest of gathering materials, etc. for your characters in the game. You're murdering those poor Hilichurls despite knowing they were once people, etc. and you excuse it by saying it is a game, right? Genshin isn't real, so therefore you're not actually committing atrocities every single day for primogems to advance your account. Well, neither is Dottore, in the interest of waking people from Teyvat's cycles/samsaras, and ushering the Tsaritsa's new world, where people will be allowed to flourish without the petty constraints of Celestia. Crucabena was someone who relished in suffering for no other reason than to inflict it, she had no grand goals, no bigger plan, we don't even know WHY she became a Harbinger, other than Genshin sweeping for/retconning Arlechomo's less savoury qualities out of fear of a Scaramouche 2.0 situation (they NERFed her darker side, creating this convoluted, shitty character, and trivialising the WQs in Inazuma/Liyue that concern her, absolutely disgraceful if you ask me.) In any case, you're quite bold to condemn someone without even knowing their full story, we know little of Zandik, and everyone has condemned pretty much every single Harbinger before their story is released. It is very clear Dottore is not only extremely loyal to the Tsaritsa (to the point of sacrificing his own research for her sake), and as we know from Hoyo dev interview, he WILL be a very huge part of the plot, as will the Tsaritsa, we also know the top three Harbingers are in a class unto their own, with lesser Harbingers such as Arlecchino, though not limited to her, being kept in the dark about what the Fatui's true intel/intentions are. To say nothing of the fact everything we know about how Teyvat works that didn't come from Dainsleif pretty much exclusively came from Dottore, so we have him to thank re: descenders, Teyvat being fake, etc. which Nahida passes onto us, but which is DOTTORE'S own intel. Since he has a bad relationship with Arlecchino and her own "intel" is often flawed, inaccurate, and very limited (we see this on various occasions, she has hubris but not the intelligence or strength to fight anyone who isn't a child or an amnesiac Traveller who forgot they could use elemental power...), we can presume Dottore's intel came from his own efforts and understanding of Teyvat, of which we are direct beneficiaries. Arlechomo, on the other hand, has contributed nothing to us despite being in intel, neither have Scaramouche or Childe, despite being friendly to us (aside from gossip about the other Harbingers, nothing special. We even see from Scaramouche how that can simply prove "wrong," granted, due to stupid retcon reasons but nevertheless, it remains that voice lines can simply be completely wrong, as Arlecchino's remain unchanged despite the pathetic sweeping on Hoyoverse's part.) Most importantly, we see Nicole bear witness to the events in Tatarasuna and Dottore's role in them, etc. and she never condemns him, understanding well the system of "fate" in Teyvat. You could completely erase Dottore from history and everything would have panned out exactly the same anyway, we learn that from Scaramouche's equally cringe-worthy, yet at least somewhat useful, AQ interlude. Fate is not so easily challenged in Teyvat, and even if you remove an entire being from the equation, events will remain the same if they are fated to occur, such as the downfall of the Raiden Gokaden being originally Scaramouche's doing, but after he 'erased' himself from history, it fell all the same. Likewise, if you got rid of Dottore, someone else would've found Scaramouche and the events of Tatarasuna would still happen, Collei would still have been treated for Eleazar with the non-retconned events of the manhua occurring (though it is worth mentioning that, unpleasant though she may have found it, Dottore DID save her life, even Tighnari is forced to concede this, which is why he isn't hostile to Dottore despite knowing who he is at Pardis Dhay. Moreover, he states the Dottore segment he encountered held no malice whatsoever, so every segment is truly different, adding to the further complexity of The Doctor. Sorry every character can't be one-dimensional soy slop like Arlechomo, some of them actually are well-written like Dottore. Dottore mogs that creepy femcel any day. As for Crucabena, well, she does create a lot of questions as to why the Tsaritsa would ever allow someone like her, since unlike Dottore, she has no aim that we know of nor even reason for becoming a Harbinger. Her entire reason for existing is just to make Arlechomo look better by comparison, which is how you know the latter is a shitty character -- good characters don't need to have a SatAM villain sloppily shoehorned to have their stories make sense, and it is so clear she WAS Arlecchino, it tbh would've been better even if they did something similar to Furina's consciousness split, insteaad of the nonsense they pulled. Not Hoyo's best writing to be sure, but Fontaine has been a weird version, with three great characters (Furina, Neuvillette, Navia) and an entire roster of utterly forgettable, inconsequential ones (aside from Skirk, who did more for the plot and player interest in the 3 seconds she appeaed than anyone else did in that entire AQ....)
@@motemo8413Y'all are laughable. Capitano and the top three Harbingers absolutely work together, alongside Pierro and the Tsaritsa. Everyone else is in the dark about what the Fatui are truly about, as we learn from Arlechomo not knowing anything about Pierro and being purposely kept at arm's length from the true Fatui inner circle, likewise re: Childe, who was sent on a wild goose chase for Scaramouche in Inazuma. On the other hand, in WNL we see Capitano ask Dottore about the Electro Gnosis, he knows about the AG project, etc. It's so funny that y'all think we're dealing with such black and white, simplistic plots, when the Fatui are against the HP and that will doubtlessly require sacrifices on EVERYONE's part, for the greater good/goal. Capitano is righteous, but he isn't the moral arbiter of anything, lol. Furthermore, Dottore is more so someone who does what is necessary for a goal/plan, he isn't Crucabena or even someone like Pulcinella, lmao. Y'all need to actually examine a character before condemning them, oh and it would probably help to keep in mind that much of the manhua has been retconned/the Dottore featured there is clearly not Zandik/Prime, but clearly a segment. Their personalities couldn't be any more different, which is why my man got a whole redesign. A lot of the concepts from the manhua got retconned, actually, such as the diplomats being randos. Now, the Fatui Harbingers ARE the diplomats, but there are other differences, such as the manhua Segment not giving a toss about the Fatui at all and just doing what he pleases, whereas Omega/Zandik is willing to sacrifice his own research for the Tsarista's plan, something that segment would never do. This is made clear even in the cutscene with Nahida, yet y'all want to conflate.
I am so attached to the Eleven Fatui Harbingers because they remind me of this organization group called the Organization XIII (13) in Kingdom Hearts 2, Kingdom Hearts 358/2 Days and Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories specifically (it's not the one in Kingdom Hearts 3 cus it's different). Their black coats also remind so much of the Harbinger's white coats. It's a mysterious powerful organisation with a strong army full of monsters and each of the 13 members have so much personality, has a grand goal and hidden agendas that they can do whatever they want as long as they don't get caught and finish the tasks at hand and so unpredictable that you could never tell if they would betray their comrades for their own benefit, follow their superiors goals till the very end or to join the good guys to get rid of them. Most of all, each of their boss fights are so different from each other since they have different weapons that don't overlap, and they can do unique attacks with and without their weapons. They even have their own unique music just like the fatui harbingers. Anything I can say other than this is spoiler territory so yeah play the games yourself I just really love this mysterious organisation that is made of powerful individuals with hidden agandas fulfilling a grand goal trope, and I hope that hoyoverse keeps cooking with the Fatui Harbingers and give them some of the best writing possible
i’ve drawn the harbingers (+ lumine and aether) in the black coats before, but i’d never even thought about the white coat thing lmao! both groups sure are awesome
YESS. Exactly!! I feel like that’s one of the things that made me so interested in the Harbingers. I don’t want to get spoilt, but I also found it funny how many similarities there are design wise between Scaramouche and Xion
I like Arlecchino because she is his morally grey character that is at times a walking contradition. that's what makes her interesting. What I don't like is certain fans deluding themselves into thinking she's "a good person" just because she doesn't do the hunger games shit like her perdecesor or saved Lynette like she did. She may be a whole lot better than Crucebana but she's still grooming orphans into becoming child soldiers and that doesn't make her a good person. This is a good thing!! She is supposed to be a villain!! But let's not kid ourselves, Arlecchino is not a good person.
She is though. Very Traumatized and damaged however. You have to remember she was forced to run the House of the Hearth. What do you think will happen if she doesnt decide to make Child soldiers and just stop? She's stuck between a rock and a Hard place and has to make the Best and most pragmatic Choices she can. I think that's why she wants to make Lyney the next king. Hopefully she can break the House from the Fatui. I think she wants Lyney to be the next King of the house because he can change it to somethinf she can't because of how damaged she is as a Person.
@@Gwen1661 Dude analyze her Circumstances. She can't do much unless she's actively slolwy walking the House away from the Fatui. If her decision to walk Back Fatui operations in Fontaine is any indication. She's trying to walk the House away.
Exactly. She's interesting and complex. She can be "forgiving" if it suits her, but people need to remember she's essentially grooming these kids to be good little soldiers willing to give up their lives for her or the Tsarista.
Arlecchino despite overall not being exactly a "good person" still has standards and certain lines she refuses to cross like not allowing Dottore to continue what he was allowed to do to the House Of The Hearth's orphans by Crucabena. And her traumatic backstory does make some to most of her actions in present day understandable but definitely not excusable.
I think Arle herself said to the Traveler that she likes being misconceived. If I remember correctly, it's when she lets Traveler know that she knows Lyney is going behind her back. That or its when she gives Lyney another day. Traveler expresses surprise she would be lenient and not just kill him on sight, and that's when she says that.
i like the harbingers and i like that they're bad people. but what i like more than just their cruelty, is their determination. they are 100% having their own agendas and for most of them, they have no true loyalty to the Tsaritsa. Something Childe critiques them for, as he truly is loyal to the Tsaritsa. But I love that most of them aren't truly dedicated to the Tsaritsa, but rather they follow her because it is convenient and beneficial to them. I believe that not only does the Tsaritsa knows this, but she welcomes this even if some of them are detestable like Dottore. I like this because you would think, if the top 3 have the power rivaling the Gods, why would any one of them follow a single archon AND forced to work with others? Afterall, they could rebel and most people would be powerless to stop them. That's why it's so interesting that they are Harbingers. They didn't have to be here, but they are and they're damn near an unstoppable force.
About Wanderer, wasn't there is a lore thing about him and Alhaitham going to arrest some people, and while he was the one beating the shit out of everyone Alhaitham was just...There waiting for him to finish ? No, but, I believe that Nahida is the best god for him, because both are quite similar yet opposite. And I like how even if he is still an asshole you can see he is trying to kinda redeem himself and help other (Like when he gave that bottle of water to Tighnari)
looll, you're right. I remember it was to track the son of the diadem's owner who want to sabotage the event and take the diadem so he can gain his father's wealth or something. I guess he's the type to not like negotiation and pick a "faster" route, yeah he is still very much a jerk and Alhaitham you're no different 🤣
@@Sarah-iq3sc living up to my pfp here, but if you listen to Alhaitham's voice lines he's actually just socially idiotic. He definitely doesn't try to be a jerk, he just comes across as one because he doesn't like being around people my nerd glasses are now off so you can continue lol
My main problem with Scaramouche is the caviat that, because Irmunsul, the world forgets him. Any potential for character interaction is just gone (like how he meets Mona again in the 2024 summer event, but naturally they play it like nothing happened), and it feels like, just like the horrible actions Raiden did, his evildoing is just brushed over because he's so dreamy and handsome!! It feels like all that buildup they had for his character just goes to waste because, in a literal sense, nobody knows or cares about it now, and because of Scaramouche's personality, he doesn't care that the world has forgotten him either. And if you think about it, he kills himself twice when he gets his memories back since he just goes back to being the mean version of himself, just with no motive to do evil now. They literally just had to reset him in the story, and it makes his prior involvement feel like a complete waste because it doesnt matter. Also Arlecchino's whole thing of "I don't ACTUALLY kill kids, I just gaslight them into thinking I'm going to kill them! (unless you count a memory wipe as a metaphorical death)" I get that she has her reasons for grooming child soldiers, and that's its to meet her own ends, but it still feels like they have to handwave some things so that she has "good" in her rather than being completely evil or morally gray. It feels more like Lyney chooses to stay with an abuser after seeing what he does at the end of her quest and how even the young kids were turning on each other and growing bloodthirsty. I do like that they are morally gray, just wished they commit to it more rather than having to force in a plot point or two in order to say "theyre good people actually"
scaramouche had his comeuppance in the form of another betrayal and his literal suicide attempt. inversion of genesis was an in depth allegory for buddhism, what with the big theme in wanderers character of rebirth. scaramouche "died" and was "reborn" as wanderer, given the chance to atone for his actions and become a better person (or achieve nirvana. another big thing with buddhism is how desire leads to suffering, which is again a theme in scaramouches character, what with his desire for a heart and his desire for divinity and greatness caused him nothing but pain and suffering over 400~ years.) not to mention the fact that they arent at all even done with wanderer yet, and he has _directly said_ that he plans on telling everyone hes hurt that he has hurt them, and wants to let them do whatever they want to him. also, kazuha has said (about akame kanenaga, but akame kanenaga is a parallel for scaramouche) that hed "rather see him realize and atone for his mistakes than see him punished for them" which scaramouche is currently doing in universe. wanderers path to becoming a better person and healing is _gradual_ and not as instant as you make it seem.
Yeah, I really anticipating when they will reveal Childe's curse by the foul. Bennet is also the same, having a bad luck while Childe is always in the middle of Chaos with his demon in mind.
Honestly the only way I see Dottore being playable is if one of his newer segments survived the purge and is out for revenge. There can be themes around whether or not the segment is responsible for the other's actions as even though they're the same person, they're also different.
In my opinion Genshin doesn't have "Villains" in the classic sense, just different people and groups with their own agendas doing what they consider right. The Abyss Order, The Fatui and even Celestia are all groups that are introduced as just villains to be stopped but the line between who is right and wrong becomes increasingly blurred as we learn more and more in the story. Even Dottore who is the closest we have to "pure evil" only does what he does in the name of science and human evolution and not because he just enjoys causing pain and i am curious so see the role he will have on the story
And wtf does that mean, in now way DOttore doing what he does in name of science redeem him. WTF is your statement. Is Ramsay Bolton also not classicaly villain, because he flayes people alive because he "thinks its the right thing to do???"
@@antihmota4625 When did I say that this redeems him? I said that he is a character who does what he does for reasons that in his mind are worth it and not because he likes to cause pain. He won't just kill someone on the street for no reason or torture someone just for pleasure, but at the same time he won't hesitate to use an innocent person as a guinea pig to advance his research. (This is all considering Prime Dottore, as we saw that each of his segments can have very different personalities)
@@aeso3555 Yes, it is definitely evil but for me it is not "Pure Evil" as there is nuance behind it Characters that are "Pure Evil" are those with extremely basic reasons or no reason at all for doing what they do with good examples being Scar, Jafar, Jack Horner, Voldermort, Palpatine, etc...
@@Truck-kun11 With Palpatine I would argue here. He wanted to turn republik into empire and by that gave stability and peace to every corner of galaxy, not selected few that was under republik cape. Does he ruled with iron fist and terror? He did. But for common folk mostly it was a dream scenario (excluding some extreme cases which were only few [don't know much outside movies, but as far I know it indeed was only few]). Imagine that your planet is controlled by rogues and scumbags and you literally are afraid to set your foot wrong, cause in other case you gonna end up as slave and republik have you deep in their ass. Empire provided protection which is mentioned in "Empire Strikes Back" and they offer employment and contracts directly with them that finally allowed engineers around galaxy to develop something new, cause as we know during republik times everything in terms of technology was in stagnation, cause Jedi wanted so. And everything that only for exterminating Jedi and loyalty for Emperor.
We actually know quite a bit about Dottore from the flashbacks in Scara's story and the notes in Sumeru He was ostracized and called a monster by everyone so he became a monster, doing his best to abandon his humanity, In essence the opposite of Wanderer's journey
I alredy disliked him and after this brief analysis of scara vs all other fatui before him I am surprised he is more morally corrupt than signora. Nahida is excesively good to even give him a chance and I am kinda surprised the traveler showed any mercy for him.
@@cupiidity_ I haven't done it but suspected as much thanks to the stream but I doubth anything would make me like him and the point still stands of how he compared for all his fatui career vs signora and the others, the difference is that scara found nahida and signora found raiden.
Tartaglia's Agressiveness might be tied to his trauma from the abyss, survival of the fittest, he would be Really into getting stronger to protect the people he cares about.
His litteral constellation, the very thing that represent his fate, was warped by a all devouring narwhal to a point that the narwhal and his nature became tartaglia constellation its pretty obvious that it isn't trauma but something worse
@@явтрауресмеюсьhe didn't delete his "evil" counterparts, he deleted ALL other copies. And what makes you think the the original dottore is a "good" guy? He's pure evil lmao.
@@Blueberry173. why would he even delete his copies? Hoyo's gonna redeem him, they already did. He says that he hates his younger version of himself, but why? Because they're chaotic evil, but now he's GoOd lmao. There hasn't been a single non playable character with playable model yet and they're gona redeem this mf 100%
@@явтрауресмеюсь lmfaoooo do you even read the story properly? Go and watch the scene with nahida, he doesnt delete his "evil" counterparts he deletes all of them, that was the deal he had with nahida. And no, the original dottore is evil too, he is literally the mastermind over turning scaramouche like how he is, causing the tatarasuna tragedy and even almost everything that happened in sumeru, he was working with the grand sage. I am not saying that they "WON'T" redeem them but they haven't done it yet, the original dottore has done a lot of bad shit and has been a mastermind in all of it. Also, signora had a proper model, but she isn't playable, so it's wrong to say he will be playable just because he had a proper model. He is a very important villain in the story and the problem is that the only way to redeem a person like him is to completely bullshit on the story, he doesnt deserve it. Scaramouche was redeemed because he wasn't the mastermind who pulled the strings, but was a manipulated weapon. Dottore is literally in control with almost everything evil the fatui do lmao. It makes no sense to redeem him.
@@Blueberry173. proper model doesn't mean playable. He has fat default tall male model's cheeks. I know he's evil and all, i've read manhua, but they really did redeem him (partly). I'm kind of tired of writing in americano, so ответь мне на вопрос: зачем он удалил свои копии? Почему разработчики сделали так, что он ненавидит свои "молодые" и более "злые" свои копии?
I'll be honest with you. At this point in the story, I am 100% sure Childe would have saved Liyue himself if people or Zhongli hadn't. There is just 0 chance he wouldn't, especially after that quest with Knave + the dude likes to challenge difficult opponents. The only question would be, how long it would take him to do so since he couldn't really use foul legacy after he fought Traveler. Altho, again after Fontaine quests, I am sure the dude would just power up and not care lol. Therefor, I will put him on a higher scale for "not evil", we also don't really know what Tsaritsa is after or if she is actually evil, since so far every archon praised how good and warm hearted she was before Khaenri'ah war, but did not comment anything about now, just that she changed... Which doesn't necessarily means "evil". And Childe only agrees with Tsaritsa and no one else from HB (until he actually talks with Knave lol). As far as we know, all the orders might be coming from Jester~ For Scara, I think it's safe to put 2 time lines for him specifically, while yes the erased memory is his atonement of some sort it also represents rebirth for him or new beginning~ Therefor, Scara should be placed at the same spot as Signora (where he is originally placed on ur chart) and new Scara (however u named him) probably above Childe when it comes to "evil" and "not evil" ~ Knave is also not really evil or actually have any choice in the matter when it comes to joining FH, at least thats how I understood. She had to take her "mother" place after she killed her, if she didn't join she would have been killed and the kids from orphanage would most likely be kill or taken by Dottore as experiments, and after reading dialogue she had with Childe it's safe to assume she joined because of the kids. The kids also needed to be trained in order to survive as fatui or again, they would be killed or sent to Dottore. So, her grooming them is basically grooming them for their own survival. For Dottore, I also don't think he would be a playable character. He is just too morally wrong for me to see Hoyo making him one of the playable characters. That said, I did watched a video where someone said that it would be possible if we were to play one of his clones that is actually good, I can 100% see that being the case. Otherwise, nope. I also strongly believe that Jester is using Tsaritsa. He would be the main villain in Snezhnaya and he will be very morally right but at the same time very morally wrong. 100% will have to do with what happened in Khaenri'ah and will be some sort of plot for revenge. I am very much so excited to see other FH, especially Columbina and Capitano (also finally get the full Childe story, it's been years now and all they been doing is fueling my curiosity towards him. What makes him so special? Is he actually a real MC of Genshin? Have we been all fooled this entire time thinking it was the traveler? I actually wouldn't be surprised) 😂
15:26 I knew that the balladeer would be incredibly abusive and rude to his subordinates, but he would HIT them? I shoudlve expected that but i didn't know. Where did you find that out?
Something I would always like about Childe is how....Despite everything, he is still a kid at heart, heck, the game even said so ("Childlike exterior", "pretty boy"), and even is the youngest of the Harbinger, although, this childish side is kinda...Corrupted, in a way. There was this long analysis by someone who is VERY good at analysis, but sadly don't post anymore, about him. And they talked about it Basically. His Foul Legacy in the Golden House can be interpreted almost as a temper tantrum, and he needed to think a bit before realising that the Traveler had no chance (Btw, some translation of the game implies that the Foul Legacy prevent him from thinking coherently, which may add to this) He also has yet to fully mature, because at the end, he doesn't want to share his boat with Signora. And that his battle thirsting is like a child craving for something Heck, it even stand today, because in the Archon Quest, despite him pretty much about to loose counsciouness, instead of like, going to the side to rest, he is being very petty and give that thumb down to Neuvillette (which is confirmed to be him being petty, look at the stickers) And in Arlecchino story quest, not only he just, run away, instead of resting, but he immediatly want to spar. Also, Arlecchino voiceline about him tell a lot too
alright. correction. signora did NOT accept traveler's duel. rewatch it. traveler challenges her, signora quietly huffs, and before she can say a SINGLE WORD. raiden says "proceed." Signora is wary of the traveler, childe says this. this is further proven by Signora trying to scare the traveler into calling off the duel, going "you are aware that the loser must die.. are you SURE this is what you want?" she was forced into the duel by inazuman law and murdered unrightfully.
Well.. guess the traveller might just fit in with the Harbingers. There's a slot open after all. (Well several.. we still don't know anything about the 10nth, if they even exist)
Archelino is a bit inconsistent as a character.. After meeting countless fatui Snezhevich in the desert, the chasm treated like disposable object. And let's not forget how these children become "orphans" but she's good and the orphanage is a big family lol..
"She's good" where? Did we play the same game? Or you just didnt understand her. she's literally a gray characte or morally questionable and she only makes HOTH slightly better than Crucabena, although she still sends and makes fatui soldiers, which makes sense because that's her job. She may not understand how to love her children, but she still tries to cherish them as much as possible, for example when there is a big life-threatening mission, such as the fatui in the desert and the chasm, she will hold a large banquet as a way for her to show her concern, incase those who celebrated the party did not come back alive she only acts according to her moral code, it cannot be justified as good or bad, if you don't understand this concept, you haven't read enough literature or character analysis
Don't know how you got this take. Arlechinno isn't written to be completely evil or completely good. She's probably one of Genshin's most complex characters. In her story quest (spoilers ahead), she raises the children to believe that if they ever try to leave the House, they'd be executed. When she fights her kids, she doesn't hold back and in the cutscene both the Traveller and the children look absolutely terrified of her because yk, they believe they're gonna die. She's better than Crucibena, that's for sure, but she isn't this all loviñg completely benevolent parental figure to them. She takes in orphans and basically raises them to be soldiers for the Fatui - a life they never asked for. That being said, she also does care about them in her own way. She holds the hand of her dying children and enacts vengeance for her so she can rest peacefully in her teaser. She burns away the memories from the children who wish to leave the House instead of murdering them. She's a walking contradiction, and that's what makes her so interesting.
@@gubs-subs Arlecchino still hold back when she fought traveler, lyney, lynette and freminet, she barely even trying. (Source : Lyney dialogue after Traveler fought the Knave)
In regards to playable Harbingers, I actually think its better if certain Harbingers don't become playable. Namely, Dottore, Pierro, Pulcinella (Rooster) and Pantalone. Dottore is someone that I hope we get to fight, as he is probably *the* most evil person in Teyvat. I wouldn't count out Signora just yet though, I think theres a very real possibility of her having a sort of phoenix rebirth.
If they want Dotorre to be playable at this point kt will probably have to be along the lines of a much younger segment who takes issue with what theyve done. Like, the Dotorre who made the deal with Nahida is currently the only one left and there has to be a reason for including the segments at all, they cluld just as easily have done the trick with making us think he was leaving Sumeru with an illusion or something, theres got to be a reason for such a complicated idea being implimented at all, and consequences to their loss...like maybe him trying to make more since nothing is stopping him from just replacing the loss, only to discover it isnt working the same as before for some reason he didnt anticipate (but Nahida likely did) and that leads to a version of Dotorre who thinks differently from the ones whove been on the same wavelength as all the others to the point that theyre functionally 1 person with different bodies instead of snapshots of different periods of his life suddenly existing in this period where hes a Harbinger doung insane experiments all over the world. Its a stretch i know, but SOMETHING needs to come out of the whole segment idea, and a playable Dotorre (or, Zandik, i guess?) Who opposes his own other self but who the rest of the world has...extremely complicated feelings about at the very best, would be an interesting way to go about it, especially with identity being kind of a big topic for Hoyoverse in general and among the Harbingers specifically. And, as i said, the only way to feasibly make a playable Dotorre is to not even try to redeem the one we currently know, hes way too far gone and unforgivable.
I might be overcooking but get this: Dottore might be the least evil harbinger. Because let me preface this with some opinions and speculations of mine. (delulu moment) Murder is evil, and Dottore has committed a lot of murders. He has also done a lot of illegal experimentations, and a lot of them were fatal. So, in the view of Teyvat, he is evil, true. Teyvat it speculated to be a world that's in a Samsara, a.k.a. it's been on a cycle, and we also know that fates are already written in the stars, as if your entire life is predestined. It is also speculated to be its 7th cycle, because all characters from Teyvat have 6 constellations, and you need the character itself too, making it 7 copies, and in one of the loading screen tips, it says that "Wherever you go in Teyvat, the stars will always have a place for you." In that case, I'd like to speculate that the "Truth of This World" is that Teyvat is a simulation, a program of sorts being run by Celestia. (not really a program but yk what i mean. for example, something like ark survival evolved, kinda...) Dottore knows the "Truth of This World", therefore, I'd like to say that in Dottore's mind, he is not killing anyone, he is not harming anyone, this is all just a simulation, this is all fake. Death means nothing if you are going to be reborn in the next Samsara. One would not call a programmer deleting lines of code from a program _evil._ Yeah, I'm delusional, I should seek help... huh...? p.s. my english not good, pls no bully me
The fun thing but at times problem with genshin is that 99% of its lore is implied or shut behind 500 hour world quest that goes on forever and by the end you just want it to end. Not all the Harbingers and other characters development is plainly visible or even confirmed, even with how deep we are into the game there’s a very large amount of lore and story that is just walls on walls of text, random references here and there, or just random world quests that no one cares about. It must be so that people who want to just play it as a fighting game can while lore players can go diving for the lore like a mystery or puzzle game which is nice at times but sometimes it can take away or make developments seem like they come out of nowhere.
Love the video essay! Although i do have to point out some of your observations were slightly short sighted and plain, not that it’s a bad thing, but most of the harbingers are actually more complex than this, and it would change their rankings, especially on arlecchino and tartaglia
Hmm, let's see: - Charmed a classmate and strangled her to death, then lured tigers to mutilate her body to cover up his crimes. - Set loose a ruin grader to kill off the rest of his classmates to eliminate any weaknesses. - Conducted experiments on Eliezar patients using DISMEMBERED body parts. - Kidnapped children from all over Teyvat to conduct more experiments. One of the victims being Collei. - Sabotaged the Mikage furnace inTatarasuna, killed Niwa, manipulated Kabukimnon and corrupted him into becoming a cynical, nation destroying monster. Oh yeah, and Tatarasuna is still devastated to this day. - Implied to have been the one responsible for luring Ursa the Drake to attack Diluc's caravan, resulting in Crepus' death and sending Diluc down the path of leaving the KOF and becoming a brooding anti-hero. Also mocked and taunted Diluc during their encoutner. - Collaborated with the sages of the Akademiya to create an artificial god by putting the citizens of Sumeru inside a looping dream. - Worked with Crucabina, another equally morally bankrupt Harbinger. This man has traumatized and ruined the lives of at least three playable characters (Collei, Wanderer and possibly Diluc). At this point, there needs to be a therapy group for all of his victims. This man has the word EVIL plastered on his face and he'll wear it with pride.
@@aeso3555 "This man has the word EVIL plastered on his face and he'll wear it with pride.", more like, he wouldn't care about being called evil. It's just a word to him, nothing more, nothing less. He is just "happy"(insanely so) to be able to continue doing his sick experiments, without caring what anyone might think of him.
I really don't think that signora needed backstory or screen time. She did her job in procuring multiple of the gnosis and got what was coming to her at the hands of electro archon. No matter how stong you are or devoted to something you are, you will always face obstacles and the raiden shogun was the one she couldn't overcome
I believe that Arlecchino is a case of "hoyo wanted to sell a character". She contradicts earlier lore about her to be nicer in eyes of players, all horrible stuff they can put off they put off to Crucabena. Essentially, she doesn't feel like a character to me, but a marketing ploy. "Oh, she's the one players liked most in Lazzo, we can decide what we can do in Fontaine, yay!"
Thank you, you put everything I think about her into words. I never really connected with her because I just kept seeing a „marketable cool and over powerful mommy“ instead of an actual character
Yeah I fricking agree, but unfortunately this is a Chinese GACHA game so her badness HAD to be nerfed. I'm more interested in Crucabena now, but I know she will probably never be mentioned again (another character with missed potential, thanks Hoyo!)
@IMtiredal but we also saw other Fatui from the House before 4.0, who referred to current Arlecchino as someone to be feared of even for the inside circle. Aranyaka Fatui npc, and Tanit quest Fatui npc are scared of being part if the house, and I believe Crucabena is too dead by this time to be responsible.
@@Vickyef619 That has never changed she is still quite frequently described as being a feared by all the kids in the house. However if you do go back to those previous quests you'll find someone who states themselves that they don't actually have a problem with the house. This is one of the biggest pieces of misinformation about it they don't want their younger sister to go there because they're younger sister wants to follow a very specific career path the house is not the best place for that. ( you don't send someone who you know wants to be a dancer to military school regardless of whether you are ok with the military school you send them to a dance school) Honestly this bugs the hell out of me because people need to realise that the characterization of her was not just changed the characterization we got about her back then is very similar the only exception is with the voice Lines. The problem with these voice lines is that everybody jumped on them and let their head cannon run wild, completely forgetting the fact that the two people who gave the voice lines aren't the best narrators. Childe is very much not the best judge of character and has been shown to be easily manipulated and Wanderer has a pessimistic 98% of the people he meets. What people mean when they say that they change her character to make it more marketable whether you like to admit it or not what it actually comes down to is my head canon didn't align with what the actual thing was so clearly they changed it.
@volfawott7417 Alright try to make sense of her character then. What is her motivation? Help the kids? She was at least capable of killing them off. Help Fontaine? No, she states that it was abt the kids, but we see how she cares abt them. Her own goals? Good, what are those??? She's not a fleshed out character, she has some traits like "ruthless" or "demanding", but what drives her, what is she about? You cannot even make a guess, bc her lore was written in two states: "pre-Lazzo", "post-Lazzo". Pre-Lazzo Arlecchino was about running a horrifying spy-like organization, post-Lazzo Arlecchino is about "Traveler has to tolerate her at least somewhat". Unreliable narrator is a trope of when we're fed misinformation, yet combined it gives a grain of truth. It's not an easy way of retconing a character. I'm convinced, hoyo just saw how popular she got and made her a Fontaine Harbinger. Unfortunately, it led to some story mess that she is now
8:25 La signora is actualy kinder than we can see on game, it's said that she loved visiting the house of the heart snd bring childrens gift because she felt loved or something, i think that overall she wanted to kill the world bc "the world killed her love" (idk just my speculation) 23:41 there's a theory saying that he could have been with Lisa at the Academia, (as most of us know she will soon die) that he fell in love with her and all those experiments are to find a way to make her live longer. that could make him like -1% less evil lmao 28:11 acctualy we know, Arlechinno is a decendent of the red moon dinasty (full or red moon i dont remember the name) she is from kenrhia acctualy anyway sorry if it's not too accurate, this video was fire
as for your second point, lisa is a normal mortal human who has only lived like 35~ years at most, and dottore got kicked out of the akademiya HUNDREDS of years ago, theres no way for them to have gone to school at the same time
I'm somewhat annoyed by Arlecchino's moral ambiguity because it feels like, to me anyway, that it was only written in to give the writers a way to justify the popular theory that the Fatui "had good intentions all along", a potential twist that I absolutely hate. The Fatui have done so much illegal and violent shit that it's basically impossible for me to see them as "good guys", but just as I'm thinking "I guess if there was a kind of rogue faction with the Fatui that could potentially explain it away, but there's been no indication that has been the case." And then by the end of Arlecchino's introduction the House of the Hearth was pretty much established to be that rogue faction, and I was just so overcome with a sense of "Well, better late than never! I GUESS!!!" Her voice lines even have her basically saying "I may be loyal to the Tsarista, bUuUuUuUuT if she does something I don't agree with I would fight against her. Hint, hint, wink, wink, nudge, nudge- **turns on megaphone and places it next to your ear** GET IT?! I'M FORSHADOWING!!!"
It’s like the parody of “The Shawshank Redemption” where Peter very slowly turns and looks at the audience when he comments on the fact that Andy and Red being friends - as Red is black - would make it more special for the audience.
I don't know about the other harbingers, but Dottore's goal has always been good, for humans to defeat teyvat's law is a good goal, but the methods are evil but also realistic i guess
How evil Arlecchino's current actions depends on how you view Teyvat. Is there place for orphans. We know some of them are in max security prison just because. Arlecchino was raised to believe survival of the fittest mentality, so in her mind rising children with skills less than savory in our world might be only way for them to survive in Teyvat. I think Arlecchino has best intentions for people of House in a world that doesn't have ways to protect people less fortunate than others. Arlecchino's motivation might just be to keep people of the house alive, if so she would be morally good character in Teyvat. If she had other motivations for the house she would be evil.
Dude, she trains child soldiers, and we have confirmation that they DIE, like fucking die from missions. She also accepts psychopaths, like Foltz (may he burn in hell). This is like saying a pedophile is good in a world with no orphanages because he is the only one giving orphans a home, with the caveat that he uses them to sell "stuff" to other pedos in his pedo organization. The fact they are kept alive is a bare minimum, and shouldnt influence at all the fact that the children are still exploited by the character in question. Now imagine how much worse is Arlecchino that she trains them for mission where they 1) DIE in, 2) most likely have to kill innocents in cuz i doubt the fatui conviniently only make her target evil people, 3) She abuses them psychologically, to the point they fear death with her, and even if the death part is fake they still get their memory whipped, which is essencially death of character. People just bend over backwards for Arleccino because she is "cool character mommy" that sometimes helps out, but 100% does so with ulterior motives. And the writters know this, which is why they have to bend over backwards to justify her being more "sanitized" than Dottore, which is a very very low bar to clear. For example the flooding in Poisson, i call bullshit on Arlecchino just happening to be investigating a ruin near it with just the right amount of fatui and supplies to help the town, because they had to make her and the other fatui scum "heroes" in fontaine. I
@@MarcoCam1314 If you really think dying from missions means anything is laughable. In Genshin I think 99% of orphans would die from starvation, because the children would only seen as burden and nobody has resources to take care for them. There is monsters everywhere. Most infrastructure has been destroyed between the main cities that are guarded by military forces. The way Genshin world is, would in my opinion mean there has been millions of death from cataclysmic events. Cataclysmic event afterwards brings famine and destruction of civilizations means of production/knowledge.. Well in real world we don't have objective morality. Every action you take can only be measured as good thing or bad thing by your current environment and effects it has. We can hopefully say owing slaves is bad in our environment. We can also think world where a child is born in higher caste and has slaves by default. That child is raised believing it's only natural to be above other castes. That child mostly interacts with people who does cruelty to their slaves and for them it's as usual as sun rising every morning. When that child grows up and if they don't do cruelty to their slaves, because they think it's wrong and still owns them, in my opinion that person is very morally good even if they are doing the bad thing of owning slaves. That is because for them to do that is going against the common sense of that world for what they believe is right, and because my morality aligns with not to do cruelty to anyone.
@@dalkflamemastel4542 The fact the House of the Hearth uses an orphanage as a cover means that there exist the concept of orphanages there, which i doubt would all involve making child soldiers for a Nazi-type group. Just because they are orphans doesnt mean that suddenly just because you give them a roof you can do whatever with them and be "better". If so then the noble who adopted children to get their way with them is also "better" than the children wandering around the street. Thats an idiotic argument for having Arlecchino "sanitized" just because you people cant cope with the fact the character you like is evil or you feel forced to make the argument cuz another character you like would also be evil if you didnt. The last point about moral subjectivity is also a bunch of stupid points, cuz regardless of what is considrered "morally acceptable" by a population doesnt matter to actually apply morals to it. People used to belief black people werent humans and so treating them poorly was a-ok, or that women were objectively inferior to men and so their agency didnt matter; just because a bunch of neanderthals in the past considered it so means nothing to the actual moral standing of the situation. Arlecchino is not "owning slaves on principle but not actually being cruel" she is quite literally grabbing kids from the street, brutally training them into being spies and assassins by what is essencially psychological trauma and manipulation, then sending those kids into actual dangerous situations they can and have died in, only to have the audacity to be shown by the game as a "caring parent" just because on some socioathic level she cares for them superficially. Your entire analogy, which btw was still very much stupid, doesnt even apply here, because yours relies entirely on the premise that the individual is just doing somethin morally questionable in principle, but is not actually doing the thing in practice. Basically you used slavery in name only. A more fitting analogy would be the same kid, but now as an adult and who used to be a slave themselves, working with an organization that deals with slaves by capturing them and bringing them back to their masters when they escape. While that happens the person in question also lends his slaves to other slave masters that work them, sometimes to death, with full understanding of what is happening. But at the end of the day, the ones that do return get a good meal and shelter, as if that even comes close to off-setting the other things above. Arlecchino is not some kid too stupid to understand slavery, she is a fucking adult who also went through the process of the HotH. She understands the situation very well, she understands the kids will have a chance to die and is the one sending them into said dangerous situation. There is no angle you can take that would even come close to making the process of child soldiers reasonable. And one more thing, genshin is a narrative meant for us to experience, it means we are the ones that interpret it and the morals in it will go through our moral compass, the game explicitly tries to sanitize the harbringers to make them playable. If that wasnt an issue because "muh time period" then that wouldnt happen. This isnt something like 40k or some historical fiction, where either the morals are thrown to the side for roleplay purposes or accuracy. Arlecchino by all means is evil, you people being unable to accept it and tripping over to justify it is weird and the game doing so is also jarring to experience on a game where we are supposed to be morally good people.
@@MarcoCam1314 Well future people will tell you have thoughts that are very disgusting and barbaric it would seem okey to you, they say you are were very evil person for it. You have very black and white thinking. Past people used to think what we now think is stupid. It would be very arrogant to think we are not the same as them . I don't have any commitment to Arlecchino, but you sure use lot's of energy for hate. What do you think we should do to cultures that doesn't abide your moral compass? Do you give their action any charitably or think them in the worst light and just label them evil if so how would you be any different then people who has done most harm to most people. My first comment and later have one thing in common I was trying to point out how saying someone is evil should be judged by the environment the person is in. Many times I have said it depend how you view things about Teyvat. To me Genshin is very much like 40k world with different paint, others like you sees it much more lighthearted. Where do you think morals come from? The world doesn't shed a single tear for us. Tell me what does your hell look like, and I can be sure to find place on this earth with much more suffering. Only thing that cares and only thing that ever care for us is us humans. If all of us would be erased from the world, it would mean nothing. The world would just go on like always. Moral beliefs can only come from us, because we are the only thing that value humans. In our current world there is child soldiers even thought, i don't want it to be so. I don't want it, and when I think the situation around those children and their future options it seems pretty much given that will happen in this world. There is not a helping hand they can rely on, there will not be any miracles for them in this world. People who would help them are also just surviving, those who has the means would never do it out of the goodness of it. The morality itself has never had any value, only after society makes people follow it does it have value. Everyone is just trying to survive, and I believe we both are in privileged positions where we can do also something else like talking about morality. Genshins doesn't give enough information to judge things, so it will just be how you see the world. Examples What is a ratio of orphans to children with parents? Are there starving people? How many lose life from it? How long is a average life? How many have disabilities? can you even survive with them. Is monsters most common reason for dying? How many bodies linger on streets? How many plagues there are? Genshin doesn't show plight of normal human. The things I have seen in genshin makes me think its a hellhole, where people with extraordinary power are the only thing keeping small populace alive. That means they control all of their lives. Narrative is completely driven by privileged superhumans. If Genshin world is much more stable and not as cruel as I think of it, then sure Arlecchino would be a bad person. If it is as bad then Arlecchino would be just product of the cruel world trying to raise another set of humans capable survive in it. I also don't have information that Arlecchino has taken any people by force to her organization. The thing about slave owner was a way show how I would judge character or historical person in context of their environment. It was not meant to be one to one. Slavery to me is bad thing in it itself. I would call people owning slaves at this point disgusting because it's not excusable any way in the context of current world.
Speaking of Childe I seen a theory that he is the vessel for the third descender, which is the reason why Natlan has the “ode of resurrection”. Last gnosis… most likely will be seeing Mr world wide. I like it but we’ll see!
I saw the same thing. He's definitely going to appear again, latest in Snezhnaya. But as cool as it would be, i doubt they'd go that far with Tartaglia. But he's still the character with one of the most loose ends and Fontaine made it way, way more confusing. But i do wonder which path is laid out for the traveller though. Will they make us join the Fatui to fight Celestia or do we stay an independant person. (probably the latter, because else there might be too much backlash from players)
Arlecchino is one of my favourite characters among both Genshin AND Star Rail. Her morally grayness is so interesting, she lies to get what she want, but she doesn’t kill people without a reason. She terrorizes Furina but it comes from a place of concern over the children’s safety. She objects to the abuse of the house yet enforces it in some ways. She’s loyal but would fight the Tsaritsa and Harbingers with hesitation. ITS SO COOL! She’s also just *aesthetically* one of the best characters, the simple black/white/red colour scheme, the unique hands, the wing, the EYES, the DOUBLE SCYTHE!??? THE SUIT?!??? It’s just amazing 10/10
There is nothing morally grey about her, she trains child soldiers, which die in the missions they are sent into. She abuses them and causes them psychological and behavioral damage, turning them into sociopath due to the necesity of that to survive in the HOTH. She has no regard for their wellbeing beyond a very robotical "they are alive, thats the bar i set". This woman also operates an espionage ring for a terrorist organization, assassinates targets or send the kids to do so, which most likely arent all "child abusers" because is the fatui who give her the orders. You couldnt have possibly chosen a less morally grey character. By that metric Hitler was a also a morally grey person because he instituted animal right reforms during his period in control of Nazi Germany. There are characters in genshin who have been killed (reasonably so) and framed as their death being justified and a-ok by the narrative for way less than what Arlecchino ALONE is responsible for.
people already mentioned Capitano, and I agree, I WANT to know about him. How he is noble and honest and honorable and reasonable while being No.1 of The evil organisation TM. And also he is the first of them, which means he has power to rival gods themselves BUT. Who I really want to learn about is Pantalone. He seems to be JUST a man with money, but soehow he is the 9th harbinger. They are given nubers based on their strenght, and... how this sly man is stronger than Childe? Like we litterally know nothing abt him besides that he is rich. What is his goals, what are his powers? Nothing. And that what make me want to know him. How this regular dude is higher than ultimate soldier? Oh, and also, I don't see people talking, how we still don't know who is 10th Harbinger. Like... we have no mention of them at all. We don't even have hints towards that 10th place is empty now. No. Just zero information
Honestly, this is so random, but I’d love to see you do an analysis video of arlecchino specifically. I’d just love to see what you view her as in general from a writing standpoint. Imo, she was used really well in the AQ.
i think having characters be on good terms with the traveler before becoming playable is one of Genshin's biggest flaws in term of storytelling. because the writers basically shape and twist and retcon A LOT of stuff to do that. it has gotten to the point where i am praying that the rest of the harbingers never become playable. just see them reach their full potential as characters. i will get hate for this for sure. i know. but Arle as a character is the biggest disappointment i have in the game. they literally got all her lore and what we heard about her and what she was built up as, and shoved that shit unto some last minute woman we never heard about, and had Arle kill her just before she launched. all this to justify the house of the hearth shenanigans. like yeah you ain't fooling me with that "morally gray" nonsense genshin. Arle was retconed. let's not be naive.
listen here, I'm not naive, but I don't think you understand her character. As we know, her character has been discussed a lot since Inazuma, then by Childe and Scaramouche, and I think it would be very silly if you believe all the info about her. Arlecchino itself is a parallel or has similarities to Furina through theatrical concepts and misconceptions. You can see how Arlecchino appears in the Fontaine preview trailer on the theater stage surrounded by harbringers as her audience. Arlecchino also said she likes it when people have misconceptions about her, so don't be surprised if she is the opposite of what people think about her
@@daffafatih8669 Alright but it's rather obvious they had different plans for her and only arbitrarily changed it at last minute just to get more banner pulls. I can already tell if Capitano and Columbina become playable that their writing will be insanely neutered just for higher success.
30:56 it was said she was made the new Knave because the tsarita acknowledged her power and arlecchino just went a long with it (I think, I’m just delulu at times)
the bloodstained knight theory makes me want capitano to be a two faced sociopath with overpowered charisma, that's why no one can say bad things about him or they simply don't know what he does in the shadows
I definitely feel like we are at a point with Dottore where he's been called bad for so long and in so many ways that even though he has fans, I think there would be more outrage at his playability. Especially considering he may have always been bad, if the speculations of him being Zandik are true. You could make a case that he might be trying to help people and that's why he's always trying to cure or improve things but being considered worse off than death in 99% of the cases with him probably doesn't show that it's for a good reason or whatever. Like fine he doesn't have to be morally good but he's not really the popular type of bad for the protagonist's side at least. It's heavily theorized and implied that the Tsaritsa isn't really a bad person and is doing whatever it is she's doing to free Teyvat from Celestia but... Dainsleif also says she has lost the love for her people, so does she really even care enough for us to accept it if their side is later revealed to be "good"? I am not really a Scara fan even now but honestly he doesn't seem or feel as bad as he was placed. He isn't the same person anymore as he was, and only has the memories of that version of himself. There's also still some discrepancy about what Irminsul really *does* (some believe he still did all those acts but that Irminsul just rewrote the history of how they were done, others believe that he really was able to undo it but that those same bad things still happened due to other reasons, as if by an inescapable fate). I lowkey preferred the mellow blank slate version he was before his quest... again, I'm not a simp so I'm sure his diehard fans would have hated that lol, but if nothing bad ever happened, that is the version of him we would have eventually come to know. His current self may be grumpy, but he's never shown to be antagonistic anymore? He's actually shown to be way kind now lol, just sounds like he hates doing it. If anything it might just be because he's embarrassed due to trying to grow from his past? idk how to phrase it For Signora, I'm pretty sure Venti knew who she was. I can't recall where but I'm fairly certain it's said he knows all of the children of Mondstadt or something to that effect. I know bringing her back would cheapen her death, but tbh that whole era of Inazuma felt so poorly executed that the death only felt like shock value. Arlecchino feels fine to me as she is. All of the lead up to her fits with her imposing character and the fact that people didn't truly understand her. Childe and Scara are *supposed* to be "unreliable narrators" because all of the character voice lines about each other are from that character's perspective. (Like Tighnari's line about Layla literally has him scoffing at some of her sleepwalking antics because he thinks they are fake, but we know they are actually true.) And the Fatui we meet that talk about how terrible things are in the HoH also seem like the type she would have freed from their world using the special fire (which seems new considering it happened after Fontaine did). It's pretty clear that she's wanting to be some vague level of "normal" but because she didn't get that, she doesn't know how to give that. She wants Lyney to become her successor and yet it's more or less clear Lyney would never go to some of the lengths she seems willing to go to, or at least in the ways she is willing to do things. She seems like she wants them to literally change things. Also we do know about her powers and more of her backstory... hyv released info on it a few days after her release. I won't say it in case people don't want to be spoiled. I certainly don't think every "villain" needs to be redeemed but some of the characters we haven't really established as villains yet. Arlecchino for example has killed at least one / two for revenge (implied from both of her trailers). But Clorinde has also killed due to her job, and we don't have a morality conversation about it. It's implied Sandrone killed someone/cut out their tongue but he wasn't a good guy so is she a villain? Really the only person we've seen as 100% villain is Dottore, as everyone else in some way shape or form has been given a sympathetic background to explain away their actions or at least make them more understandable, whether people find their morality good or bad. An interesting video to watch!
4:13 She didn't accept, she HAD to fight. Raiden wouldn't have said "Proceed." If otherwise. That's why she says, "You've learned the ways of the land to your advantage" (despite Traveler never canonically learning this but wtv"
Everything seems on point the only thing that bothers me is that some people were saying that Arlecchino is too strong for the traveler and it seems people forgotten that the archon or other strong characters helped us defeat certain harbingers, to me Arlecchino level of strength is that of childe but more tricky and stronger because of her cold nature, the only harbinger that catches my eye is Colombina
Sooo... so far the antagonists in Genshin have to chose one of these two paths: "A morally bad but still interesting villain that is acting like how a villain SHOULD be acting, you know what fuck this let's just kill them off and almost never mention them again, they won't sell bc sensitive players will not handle them!" "Oh actually this "villain" isn't as bad as we made them seem to be, it was some other character's fault why they ended up like this, they are just misunderstood and a little morally gray that's all! So please pull for them!" So far Il Dottore is carrying the entire antagonist role with his balls while surrounded by fuckers picking flowers with the traveller.
Correction. Chinese Laws will now allow a full Villain to be Playable. The most they can be is Morally Grey lile anti hero or anti villain. Like Sunday and Sparkle feom HSR. Sparkle was just a Chaotic Neutral for the lols characters and Sunday is more of the Symphathetic villain who doesn't want people to suffer but will do so by locking them in a Dream where the Impossible that cannot happen in reality can exist.
@@silverhawkscape2677 Meanwhile, Freeza keeps getting resurrected despite being someone who _revels_ in being a murderous, tyrannical lunatic (and also because Goku is a battle-hungry idiot).
I feel like Childe is one of the best villain (Yes, I'll consider him a villain) Because, not only he never asked for a redemption, but, he act like a villain WHEN he should act like one, not randomly. Liyue show that he can be cruel and cunning. And Fontaine never had him had redemption, sure, he was guilty of the one crime he didn't commit, but it's still don't justifie him. Heck, even his brawl with the Narwhal is likely purely selfish, because 1. He is batshit crazy 2. He had no idea of the prophecy, and how this thing will drown Fontaine. Also, the thumb down to Neuvillette has been confirmed not to be saying "he don't have much time or something like that", but instead him being petty, which I really like Also, he DOES get karma at multiple point. And, while it's likely he was corrupted by the abyss, it's still...Kinda his own fault, they don't try to make it the fault of someone else, even better, Childe quite literally accepted he'll get worst since, while he was "forced", he still agreed to enter the Fatui only to fight, and to serve the Tsaritsa
If i may ask. What is he carrying? Like being just evil? I could that you want someone to be purely evil, but the Fatui has never been stated being someone with only evil intentions. We dont really know what they even want except tht it has something to do with the gnoses. And antagonist's dont have to be evil, it just has to be someone that goes agents the main character's motivation. And pickibg flowers are quite the streach, even for the joke. If what you mean by picking flowers is talking to the traveler, and them not being on compleatly bad terms. Yeah you would be right. And the only one that could be said to literally be picking flowers, would be wanderer. The others are still evil, and very much so. Simply because childe doesnt kill infront of us, doesnt mean that he doesnt kill on a regular basis. And we do also have the abyss order, and if your gonna say "They go under the same things" they dont. They act evil, and are evil. Its fair if you want a completely evil character to play as, but saying the story doesnt have anything else then the doctor isnt really right, because it was never said that the fatui was that, and we have the abyss order.
My little theory is that is Dottore would be playable we could play one of his segments gone rogue and opposing his creator, but I am not sure anymore if that is possible since the deal with Nahida. But who knows maybe he did not keep his end of the deal and has one segment hidden away just in case.
wouldnt it have made more sense for signora's first phase to be pyro and her second phase be cryo if shes using her delusion. like how childe has a hydro vision but uses his electro delusion after you beat his first phase?
I personally really love childe. In my view he's really the protagonists true Shonen esque rival who grows stronger in every reigon just like us and we even see him almost on every region too just like a Pokémon rival.
i think childe feels trapped, he has to do even the more extreme/evil orders in the end bc he knows he can't protect his family from the fatui, i think he is more then willing to fight but he also know he does not have a chance so he has just to obey, even orders he does not like.
With Arlecchino and how they basically made the years worth of lore about her irrelevant and even gave her that ass pull at the end of her quest where she could conveniently wipe the children’s memories instead of having to kill them, it all reminds me of how Lestat from Ann Rice’s vampire books was retconned to have only feed on people who were immoral bastards in some fashion, in “Queen of The Damned”, at least if I’m remembering right.
Very Loud and Wrong lmao😂😂😂 Fire in Genshin is always closely related to the concept of "reborn" remember, so her fire can "reborn-ed" HOTH children are not an asspull.
@@daffafatih8669 it was an ass pull, it was for the sake of making her playable, murdering children simply because they want to leave the assassin/spy ring you run isn’t something you can have and still have them be likable, not believably anyway but there are people who sympathize with utterly delusional maniacs, that’s why you have people claiming MCU Thanos was “right” or people unironically quoting the Joker. They hand waved it by having her claim that Childe was simply being misled and she not only doesn’t mind the rumors spreading around her, she actively encourages them as it helps hide her true intentions.
@@thomasraines1396 first off, i don't sympathize with her and whatever she does in SQ, its just Hoyo "tone down" her evilness in her SQ, and I don't have a problem with that. and she actually doesn't need the "aspull" power to be playable, its not like Hoyo planned her character to be dead in the future and Hoyo saw how ppl SIMP for her and they decided to pull an aspull for her lmao. because her character file is alr existed far back then, and in her file name, it says "playable" not like Signora who was labeled "monster" in her file. Genshin is already being planned far back then, in terms of lore, playablity, etc. I've seen you in many comments, judging many characters without in-depth analysis, thats very annoying bro to be honest
@@daffafatih8669 I never said you you specifically sympathized with her, I’m just saying I’ve seen characters who are way worse than her be sympathized with. Yes they did tone her down, that’s what I’m saying. Her being playable had to have some major twist, because pure evil characters aren’t allowed to be played in Chinese games from how I understand it, they always have to have something redeemable about them, which makes me wonder how The Doctor is going to be playable as he - as of now - is one of the more outwardly evil characters. Genshin handles its writing months in advance, so it was just a matter of time until they did something to make Arlecchino seem more likable and they had that be that she’s not actually murdering children and is actively working against the terrorist organization she is apart of. I honestly find her more appealing then Childe or Scaramouche because they write her knowing that she and Aether/Lumine will more then likely have to come to blows one day.
I feel like Genshin has kinda neutered all the villains in the story the moment it needs to sell them to us. Even non-villain characters who are supposed to have complicated or controversial histories are set up to be shocking and then immediately watered down. Zhongli is the BIGGEST example of this that I can think of. We keep getting little lore bits about him being this ruthless warlord before Guizhong kind of gentled him, but every time we get a chance to maybe see some of the negative karma he's probably accumulated come back to bite him, he gets exonerated of all wrongdoing. He murdered the goddess of salt? Nope, her own people betrayed her. He threatened the old leader of Chenyu Vale? No, apparently the old leader... I don't really understand, actually. I guess they just realized they wouldn't be able to stay as an independent god and decided they'd rather destroy the land and people than swear loyalty to him? If someone else understood the story better than I did, let me know what actually happened there. But I got the impression that the only thing Zhongli/Morax did was just be the strongest contender in the war and clearly the one Celestia was going to pick, and then everyone else apparently died because they were betrayed or betrayed others or something else that wasn't his fault. I'd love to see something where Zhongli has to reckon with the cost of the gnosis that he gave away for nothing like he couldn't wait to be rid of it. Did he see all the gods he destroyed every time he looked at that thing? Well, APPARENTLY NOT, because it seems the only god he ever sealed away was Osial! So that's annoying. Ei/Raiden has similar issues, but plenty of people have already picked her apart. Obviously Nahida is an innocent baby, but even Rukkadevata apparently did nothing wrong, because Deshret messed with forbidden knowledge and had to be sealed away as a result, and the other god in the area, the goddess of flowers, also perished for reasons that weren't Rukkadevata's fault. We could've had an interesting exploration of how a god (that Hoyo isn't even trying to sell to us because she's dead!!) killed her rivals and then abandoned their followers and let her people cast them out and mistreat them, but no, even dead tree mom has to be squeaky clean. And now we have Arlecchino, who has done literally nothing wrong that we can actually prove. She's apparently soooooo scary and unhinged, but we've only seen her be threatening and letting people THINK that she hurt other people before the narrative exonerates her. I was actually really annoyed when we met the former member of the House who had amnesia. It really undercut the significance of Lyney's actions in Arlecchino's story quest, because he didn't actually convince her to change the policies of the House, he just convinced her to be open about letting those who want to leave be allowed to live. I feel like the only thing that encounter did was make Arlecchino more innocent, which isn't what I want from one of the few major, actually scary villain characters in this game.
I'm very agree with this, I also found Arlecchino to be not evil at all (in my opinion). Yeah she did collect children from many places, but in the end they are given choice to live normal. Also, I doubt she pick randomly, we can see a lot of children she pick have unique nature. What IF (just IF) she pick a real orphan or an outcast, doesn't that mean in some way she's saving them? Like she really is just a virtuous person pretending to be evil.
I mean, Dottore kinda took the entire stock of evil. Like, holy shit. XD Man has absolutely committed war crimes with a smile on his face. And he is one unrepentant bastard. Hoyo actually did a good job in making us hate him. Who knows? Maybe we'll find more unlikeable villains in the future. I, myself, actually don't like Ei because while I understand her grief? She still harmed her own people by letting a puppet lead and triggering what is essentially a civil war. Not to mention not taking the time to educate her newly born son about things like humanity, morality, or even death...you know, BEFORE leaving him in the wilderness in the name of freedom. Like "So yeah, humans aren't like us. Their lives aren't eternal. It's called death and it's not something they can fully control". To me? She's honestly the worst archon. Her and the Tsaritsa.
Same here, I am not a villain guy but you know I like consistancy and variety within a cast and once genshin has to do anyone remotely bad and sell them they back down. Maybe is because of that chinise law of no "inmoral/gray" characters in games? Idk but they constantly break other rules so I don't think so, it is just pandering. I would have been good with rukka tho specially because it feels like the deshret twist was more for him to look better rather than rukka.
They have to neuter them to make them playable. If the Doctor becomes playable, we’ll more then likely being playing as the clone who runs a soup kitchen and feeds the homeless.
I honestly don't see the Knave ever going all out on the Traveler. She seems to have some morals and promised a favor in the future. Plus she is smart so I don't see her not having a plan for both saving her kids and the Traveler.
hi dottore did not do direct experimentation on collei!! its even included in colleis wiki!! dottore overlooked someone who was doing mass experimentation on collei! the person who experimented on her name is barnabas. this shit was even in the manga and I'm tired of ppl spreading misinformation.
But he still allowed it. It's like saying Hideki Tōjō wasn't guilty of his crimes because hey, it was other Japanese generals and scientists that participated in Unit 731!
Barnabas is his subordinate, like directly his assistant, he is the one that collects subjects for him. If you really think he didnt had a hand on Collei you must be coping or missing info cuz is clearly stated that he indeed treated her, the method he used was what left her with trauma, and even if he didnt participate directly all the way through he still put her in that situation, so for practical purposes is irrelevant. One way or another he is responsible, and he has had many other subjects so even if Collei, by some miracle wasnt his fault then the other hundreds of people and children he did experiment on would fill the role regardless. This is equivalent to arguing whether Vladimir Putin directly killed a specific individual or left his subordinates to do it for him.
Personally, I hv a gut feeling that separating “directly experimenting on Collei” and “allowing subordinates to experiment on Collei” can impact how we understand Dottore’s motives, attitude, as a person (when we get more info abt him in the future) If I rmb correctly, there is a statement (I frogot where it is from sorry) saying that Dottore only performs things himself when they are deemed important, in this case he might not hv rly cared abt Collei bc he never directly experimented on her, and left the work for his assistant to deal with so he can handle other things he thinks that are more important stuff Not saying he is right, but I can kind of feel how we can interpret him in another way? Instead of a “heartless monster who enjoys experimenting on ppl”, we may see him as “a person who is so focused on achieving his goals that he does not rly care about evil doings happening around him, or perhaps, in order to achieve his goal he does not care what methods are used”
@@cornycorn_8899 Thats literally an evil monster that enjoys/doesnt care how his experiments impact people, just that his curiosity is satiated. It makes no difference whether he does it just because he felt like it or if he does it purely for the science. Its like saying that it matters to know if Unit 371 or Nazi scientists did their horrible experiments because they where curious or because they enjoyed to torture people, their reasons matter nothing, what matters is they did it. Delegating torture to a subordinate or doing it yourself has 0 net difference because in the end you still participating in it and facilitating it on purpose. We know Dottore doesnt care for human life and does find pleasure in what he does, even mocking people for falling into his trap, like the case of Niwa.
It’s honestly sad that signora’s entire backstory is hidden behind artifact descriptions or domains, therefore being unknown to Aether or Lumine. It’s a good story, but not known or fleshed out. Because if you know the lore… it makes that venti kick seem a whole lot more justified……
I love how childe went from almost drowning an entire nation to preventing a nation from drowning, talk about some character development 😂
@@wall6587 Childe Mains Unite
i mean, the thing is that he never did go through 'character development' to say, because he was always like that- i dont think his morals changed, it was just the different situations in which he took action in different ways. but true, the parallells are funny
like the prev reply, it was not a char dev. He was on a mission from tsarisa herself. And he would complete it whatever the consequences. All other times, he's just a chill dude wanting to fight powerful opponents.
guys I think commentor is joking
@@sehrish1837👆🏼
I always compare Arlecchino to LITERALLY the grim reaper. She isn't really evil, but acts as a villain due to her position and is almost completely morally numb in order to achieve her goals.
Plus she did literally say that she's willing to betray the fatui if they overstep her boundaries, she's just using them for her own goals. Just sooo calculated.
The thing is, she's not exactly _forced_ to do anything, as proven by the fact that she _is_ willing to betray the Fatui.
And her sythe omg bro
@@Jackson-ub1uvshe kinda is. Given that she is a head of one of the best and oldest intelligence units, which is under a certain threat of becoming less independent (Project Stuzha), she has no choice, but to be much more numb and calculative. she doesn’t want to be excluded, as her position gives her a lot of leverage and influence.
Ofc, she still would retain such qualities, if she wouldn’t be a part of the House of the Hearth. However, the events there fundamentally shaped her as a person
@@user-ej8rp1hj9n Girl just needs therapy and to be told to get over herself, stop being an edgelord, and start fixing things; I mean, someone _needs_ to slap her face and tell her to get off her arse and win.
If Doctor Who has taught me anything, it's that good things only happen when you _work_ for it, and that the measure of a good person is whether or not they're willing to commit everything to the protection of others no matter _how_ hopeless it is; in other words, a good person would do _everything they can_ to buy innocent people as much time as possible, even if it just amounts to an extra day, because the alternative is leaving them to die.
Instead of complaining about life or taking the easy ways out, Arlecchino needs to just strap in and _act,_ because every second she wastes trying to come up with the perfect plan is one where more children are sent out to die.
@@Jackson-ub1uvshe’s not a good person, thats it, bcs few days bfore her release, hoyo tweet a quote that says Arle goal is something related to Crimson Moon and Snowflake, maybe thats the reason she will be betray The Tsaritsa in The Future
The Harbinger that fascinates me the most is Capitano. The way he's been described as this honorable, rightneous, reasonable man who holds absolute power yet uses it responsibly makes him feel like an odd duck. Every rank and file Fatui praises him and (based on Wanderer and Childe's voiceline) idolises him, both as a powerful warrior and beloved leader.
Characters like Varka have spoken well about him and even fellow Harbingers have nothing bad to say about (like at all!). Childe has a few he's either unnerved by or dislike, but he admires Capitano's combat skills and wants to prove himself to him.
Wanderer has a hard time trying to say something bad about him other than his absolute righteouness being a flaw. The only other person he uses this type of description is Nahida.
Arlecchino acknowledges both his strength and believes him to be someone worthy of respect, irrespective of his power.
In a way, he almost comes off like the completel antithesis of Dottore (And if his rank of no1 is true, then the parrallels are even more prominent.)
If in Natlan, he lives up to his honorable status, then he's basically the noble demon trope. A good man in a shady organization.
I'd love to see that be his character, though I'm open to reveals or plot-twists to what we haven't yet known about him outside of what other characters have spoken of him.
This is why I love the way Genshin writes it's characters. The Fatui is not an uiformizied organization. It is made out of individuals, every one of them with their own moral code, personality, morals, motivations etc. (there are people there, who are evil- Dottore, people who just joined beause it was the only way they could survive- Lyney, or others who didn't even had any say in joining- Childe)
In Genshin we don't really see the conflict of good/evil, in the traitional sense. What we see is the very complicated political game most of the Archons, and Fatui play against the Heavenly principles.
Now I just wanna see Capitano and Dottore _square up_
If that's true, then it also means that _none_ of the Harbingers have an excuse to be so cruel; such a development could serve as an exploration into _why_ the Fatui are so awful if they can get what they want through diplomacy and respect.
@@Jackson-ub1uv 'none of the Harbingers have an excuse to be so cruel;'
Some of them don't want to be cruel.
Like in case of Childe. He doesn't like to kill, but will do it if he is ordered (for ex, he didn;t kill any of the guards of the Golden House, nor the debt collectors in Fontaine, nor the treasur hoarders, not even the person who tried to run from his debt in Childe's teaser), and he would have chose another method of luring Rex Lapis out if it was up to him instead of releasing Osial. (conversation after we beat his Foul Legacy form)
He likes to be honest, and straighforward, and doesn't like the methods of his fellow Harbingers because they use deception. But again Childe will lie, and deceive if he's ordered.
He treats his men with respect and care unlike some (Signora killed his own men during training) to an extent that being put in Trataglia's squad is considered a honor among the Fatui.
In case of Childe, idk if having morals and breaking them or not having them at all is better or worse.
Dottore is the William Afton of genshin
At least there’s a reason as to why The Doctor can come back unlike Aftton.
@@thomasraines1396 Afton had sheer willpower and that's it lmao
@@catdownthestreet....so just bad writing. Yeah I think I had good reason as to why I jumped ship when I was around 14
@@PeruvianPotato the only reason why I'm still sticking around is because I like what Steel Wool is doing but otherwise I definitely would've done the same lol
@@PeruvianPotatohe keeps coming back because of the almighty dollar
Another note on signora, arlecchino describes how she used to get the kids to pretend to like her so she would give them gifts “Those who disliked shall receive none” and also calls her lonely. I really do feel sad that things turned out that way for her
Me too:(
Tho the fact they had to pretend means she came off has dislikeable RIP
Reunited with her lover in death, at last.
@@EdgeLie I mean, we've never seen her good side too lol
In my opinnion, rather than classifying Childe as evil or not evil, I like to call him, driven, mf has one goal, and pretty much anything apart from his family and some friendds that gets in the way is meaningless to him, he seems kinda sociopathic to me, I actually really wish we get more on his morality later in the story , he's a really intresting character
Edit - 11:30 Pretty much
I see Childe as a professional soldier.
He does not kill if he doesn't have to (we have multiple times when he could have killed his opponent, like the Meillelith who guarded the Golden House, he just knocked them out), he doesn't like lying, deceviving, or hurting people who are weaker than him, and didn't do anything to warrant his violence etc. But he will do it if he's instructed by the Tsaritsa to do so.
In the military you get an order, you have to doit, like it or not, because if you don't you'll be the one court marshalled.
He didn't even wanted to release Osial (he said during the quest that he feared that it will come to this, and he pretty much regrets it), and did so after he figured out that Morax was alive.
@@pepita2437I think a lot of people also forget that childe released osial with the assumption that it would lure Morax out to come save the day. Correctly if I’m wrong but I remember him saying that himself. He didn’t do it out of pettiness. Still bad for obvious reasons, though.
@@chey1666 and it was a part of zhongli's attempt to prove that liyue can do fine without him being there to defend it so that he could retire.none of the unleashing osial stuff would have happened without zhongli's deal with the tsaritsa
If Scara doesn't get a single conversation with his mother I'm telling you I _will_ cry
wdym, he does talk to Nahida ;)
@@motemo8413 this person is talking about Raiden
@@Shadowz_417 i know lol
@@motemo8413 Good point :))
I NEED them to meet
Dottore is evil for sure but we still don't know enough about him and why he's so obsessed with human enhancements. Hoyo always cooks with mad scientist type of characters just look at Dr. MEI, Mobius, Vill V and Otto from Hi3rd.
I also wouldn't say Scara is on his redemption arc, redemption arc implies he wants to do heroic things but he says it himself he will never be one of the good guys. He sees human relationships transactional which I think is common among harbingers.
i disagree that scara isn't in his redemption arc. maybe it's not a typical redemption arc where he ends up being a good guy or a hero, but it's about him righting past wrongs and taking accountability for the terrible things he's done in the past. in one of his character voice lines (i dont remember which one), he mentions that he wants to find descendants of the raiden gokaden and tell them to truth about what actually happened and tell them that he's the one responsible, and if they want to kill him or hurt him, then so be it. maybe he's not exactly trying to redeem himself, but it seems like he doesn't want to run away from the problems he caused and wants to take accountability for them
@@Jambalambamuntil he atones for his sins, he shall remain on the shit list 😅
he's literally going on a redemption arc, but not one where he wants to be a good guy who helps everyone (i think he even told the traveler that he will never be one of the good guys). we saw him learn the truth of his past, we saw him wanting to make amends in a way where only HE would have been sacrificed, we saw him accept his past and the wrong he did while he wants to head towards a better path and that better path is finding the descendants of the people he hurt and telling them the truth and letting them decide whether to take revenge or not, we saw how he went from hating nahida and the traveler to respecting nahida and serving her + helping the traveler and starting a sort of friendship with them. the simulanka and akademiya events are where we have seen how much he has changed since recovering his memory. although he's still an awful person with everyone, he's now capable of helping others and even being the hero of the day if he's needed. he's still not a good person for everything he did (in the new sumeru event he doesn't even want to go to nahida's birthday because he thinks he doesn't deserve to go for what he did to her last year) but there's no denying that he's having a change of heart like hell he's even becoming friends with sethos😭, durin sees him as his hero and best friend and it's obvious that we're going to continue seeing more of that change because we know that he will probably meet kazuha to tell him the truth + he will help albedo save mondstad when the time is right.
Let us appreciate scara committing supoku after learning his entire life was him being (ironically) a puppet. Very sad. 500 years of trauma isn't something a few words can solve, especially when the main character doesn't like him enough to do talk no jutsu
He thought be erasing himself he would bring all those he killed back.
He was giving his life for them.😢
Yeah, a lot of people don’t take that into account sadly
It was so sad that no one catched him when he fell after having his heart stolen again. 😢
But its great that Nahida is taking care of him now.
She made him go to school, hang out with people and was nice to him.
His peers like him too, they celebrated his birthday, so sweet! 🥺
Im sure over time he will heal and open up more.
Just like Xiao.
people misunderstand scara so much that its actually sad, a lot of ppl don’t acknowledge serious points in his character ☹️☹️
@@scaramouchiemoochExactly, tbh, he was the most poor treated character, and it’s perfect for Nahida to be his new mom, since both of them passed through similar things
For the most part, I agree with where you placed most of the harbingers. I would just move Arle slightly upwards mainly because I don't think people realize how on the whole "grooming child soldiers" she's kinda trapped between a rock and a hard place. She kinda got lucky that the tsaritsa pardoned her for killing Crucabena because I doubt the fatui would let someone who killed a harbinger run around free doing whatever they please. Also, the HoTH is very useful to the Fatui, so its not like Arle can stop providing child soldiers and the rest of the harbingers will be okay with that.
Also in terms of her overall goals, I don't claim to know for sure because I have barely seen anyone mention this but I think at some point during her quest I think she mentioned how Clervie wished for the House of the Hearth to be a "real home" where no one died or was sacrificed. So I definitely she wants to separate the House of the Hearth from the Fatui at some point. And I think her "About Lyney" line affirms this. It also makes I think that Lyney will not succeed her as a harbinger but as the director of the House of the Hearth but I digress.
In my opinion, Arle has a similar morality to Childe. They are both characters whose family is their main motivation. In fact, their story quests have very loose parallels as they both try to protect/prepare family members for the cruelties the world has to offer. But I also understand why you placed her where you did.
I can concede that she may have been stuck before, but the fact she refuses to do anything _after_ the Fontaine Archon Quests is inexcusable. Considering Fontaine is no longer useful to them, and the fact that they only need one more Gnosis, the Fatui would deem it a waste of soldiers and resources to try and take back a single orphanage.
@@Jackson-ub1uv I am sorry I don't quite follow. The house of the hearth is not just one "single orphanage." It's the Fatui's entire espionage department. So losing that is a huge blow to the fatui. Also, the HotH does not solely operate in Fontaine, you operate all over Teyvat. Fontaine is just their main branch.
@@applesauce4666 If that's the case, then she could at least separate the orphanage from the Fatui and leave the pre-existing agents where they are.
@@Jackson-ub1uv My guy, The orphange is a branch of the fatui, not a separate entity it can't leave. Also the orphanage is financially dependant on the fatui. Do you think that Arle is pulling money out of thin air? No, the fatui financially supports the orphanage, but its very difficult to straight up leave the fatui .
@@applesauce4666 My guy, the end of Fontaine's Archon Quests leaves her on decent terms with the Spina di Rosula and Fontaine's government, so she has plenty of options.
Neuvillette would be the best option as he'd be able to offer all of the funding needed, and I think the most he'd ask for is to have active Fatui agents be put on trial. Such a deal is incredibly generous, and one that Arlecchino would _have_ to take if she wanted to do what's best for the children; the orphanage would get all of the support it needs, and any convicted agents will be cared for in the Fortress of Meropide.
Scaramouche didn't stop killing the bladesmiths because he was bored. He stopped killing when one of them turned out to be Niwa's descendant.
I'm not saying this makes him better (or worse), just pointing this out
Also, there's a quest in Fontaine called "Questioning Melusine and Answering Machine" (slight SPOILERS)
At the end of the quest, a person is left dead on the stage of the Opera House, his tongue torn out and a note left in his mouth. It was an apology letter written by a Harbinger interested in mechanisms, who's not Dottore (so, Sandrone mist likely). I'm very excited to know exactly why said Harbinger felt they needed to apologise to the Traveler
Husk of Opulent Dream states that he grew bored. It’s possible that the text is just reflecting his own excuses/justifications but it’s nonetheless what the text itself says.
Not many people paying atention to the world quest which make me sad a bit. I hope during patch 4.8 Hoyo drop a teaser featuring Sandrone
SANDRONE MENTION? All in all though, her character intrigues me very much, I would love to go in depth and get to analyze her when she’s shown
@@1L1KEP0TAT0ES i think one of my personal favourite crack theories about Sandrone is that it's actually Alain Guillotin (the guy who created the Fontaine Research Institute and discovered Pneuma & Ousia)
Let me explain:
Firstly, the girl we see presented as Sandrone in the Teaser looks a lot like an adult version of Mary Ann Guillotin (Alain's sister) who died tragically in an explosion (the same one from which the Melusines were born).
Alain himself was heavily involved with the research of machinery, and was a kind of genius in the field. He's known for creating Seymour (the vaguely sentient robot-dog) and clockwork Meka in general. In fact, most of Fontaine's technological progress is his achievement.
His death, interestingly enough, is also not specified: he's known to have become a shut-in crazed with his research in his later years, and his final fate is unknown. (Sandrone is also a known shut-in btw).
And now Sandrone for some reason felt the need to apologize to the Traveler, whom they haven't met or seemingly interacted with before in any way?
The theory's explanation for this would be the Traveler's involvement in Narzissenkreuz Quest. The Traveler fixed Seymour, found and freed the remaining consciousness of Mary Ann Guillotin, and finished Alain's job by disposing of Narzissenkreuz.
Again, this is a crack theory mostly held together by vibes, so don't take it too seriously
@@_dragonflies_ THISSS I HAVE BEEN OBSESSED WITH THIS no way that look is a coincidence, although I haven’t though much about Alain, thank you for this info! I think I’ll go an readership it more now :D
The people of Tataratsuma describe Scaramouche very well. He is indeed a blank slate. The Baladeer is the blank slate drawn on by Dottore and Ei. The Wanderer is same slate drawn on by Nahida.
He might have all the friendliness of a pissed off den of rattle snakes, but he's learning. It's slow, but he was at least good a sport enough in a festival to not immediately be after the goal and juat.. was there for his own amusement?
And through him, Nahida is learning about how people can be at times
My opinion -
Signora - Evil, Underdeveloped
Tartaglia - Middle of the graph, Skirk and the “Foul Legacy” part is still a mystery. We are familiar with the name “Foul and Surtalogi” but not its connection.
Balladeer - Somewhat evil, mostly developed, his revenge against Dottore still remains.
Dottore - Pure evil, underdeveloped
Arlecchino - Mostly developed, inbetween evil and good. Her dynasty’s origins and her real crazy self still remains though.
I agree more with the video’s placement of Childe. He’s certainly more developed than the middle of the x axis. We know most of his motives and still have room to create more stories. Though, he’s less developed than Wanderer because his arc is continuing (I’m not saying Wanderer’s arc is over, he has Abyss and maybe Irminsul, false sky connections too).
Childe’s one of the most intriguing characters in Genshin and’s I’m scared they will ruin him in the future tbh, he has so much potential. I hope they don’t sideline him.
@@PhuongNguyen-_-they’re not going to side line him, he’s to popular.
@@thomasraines1396 i really hope so
@@PhuongNguyen-_- look at how many times Itto has appeared recently, because he’s popular.
@@thomasraines1396 but he doesn’t involve in the plot. Itto is a comic relief, I don’t want that happen to Childe, at least, not when his arc is still going.
I really prefer villains to be villains and irredeemable and morally gray is also amazinhg and istg if dottore gets a sob story redemption bs ill be so pissed
Same, I think it makes them more realistic
absolutely, the harbingers are quite literally terrorists. it would be unbelievably shameful of mihoyo to try and 'redeem' them.
Same
Villains being nothing more usually leads to them just being obstacles/walls that the main character has to somehow overcome, they have their little moments here and there but as characters they're usually not that great
Perhaps I've left this too late, but I suppose it's relevant to this video. I've always felt a strange disconnect between how the Fatui and their Harbingers have been portrayed in the early game and how they're depicted now. I think this shift started some time around Sumeru when they actually attempted to make Scaramouche into a character and not some leering goon whose sole purpose is to be threatening, but with that pivot came a rather peculiar change.
The Fatui - who all attack on sight in the overworld, no questions asked - are introduced as troublemakers at the best of times, and that's putting it lightly. Despite having political sway with Mondstadt, something one thinks would be deserving of consideration before any action was to be taken, they have no qualms with rocking up to the country's most sacred site, assaulting its god and robbing him blind. They had no reservations about attempting to steal the lyre, nor did the group contracted by the Lawrences seem to blanche at the prospect of destroying Mondstadt's leadership - this after the events of the main story, by the way, where the Fatui decided their presence was no longer necessary.
Liyue then makes them worse by having them directly invade one of Teyvat's nations without care or concern for any collateral damage, their actions only being contained by the Traveler and their pals and (in the EN dub, at least) Childe not having any regard for what may happen after Osial is unleashed, and Inazuma makes them worse still, instigating a civil war and being responsible for who knows how much destruction and death, with Scaramouche and Signora being characterised as antagonistic, callous blowhards who care not a jot for the suffering they're causing. Dottore does them no favors, caring for nothing but the advancement of his own twisted form of scientific progress. Then something..._happens._
Suddenly, Scaramouche's character is explored, in an attempt to make him sympathetic - and yes, I know this was rooted in artifact sets introduced in Inazuma and that his character is turned away from the Fatui, point still stands. Suddenly, Arlecchino - the one member of the Harbingers everybody thought was a deranged maniac who kept her barely restrained madness in check under a fragile mask of civility - is perhaps the most reasonable Harbinger of them all outside of Capitano and it turns out the old conceptions of her exist because she allows them to, and the other Harbingers seemed to attribute Crucabena's actions to her. At least Childe did, and we did too, because it's the old Knave who was the real problem, turns out. The House of the Hearth kids are all likeable characters with noble goals and motives when before Fontaine we'd seen them do things like disrupt the foundation of nations, and kidnapping children to try and capture the Aranara in turn.
There's been a very dramatic change towards trying to make the Fatui at large seem far more sympathetic than they've been shown to be previously, and in the process of this change, I think the folks in charge have just forgotten to make sense of how unrepentantly hostile the Fatui have been leading up to this. I think that's the cause for this disconnect.
I think I remember a comment from another video that said that Signora and Ei actually have a lot of paralles towards each other. I can't find the original comment, since its in a entirely different video that not part of your channel, but thats essentially what the comment said. Hoyo is really quite pick and choose-y with how "complex" they want each of their antagonists/villains to be presented as quite honestly, and sadly, Signora got shortest stick out of all the harbingers
They better not be choosing dottore over columbina or I’ll jump
@@The1andonlysharpshooter They can Pick Columbina and Reboot Dottore. Remember he has his segments that he has to remake now that they are all destroyed.
@@silverhawkscape2677 very true.
Scaramouche is literally a product of society. True he had the body of a small adult, but he was blank on the inside like a child. So society and the people he met made the ¨monster¨ we meet in the archon quest. That´s why I love his character so much
For more context in Signora's last words in CH and JP, the implications of her last words in this languages are tied to the promise Pierro made to her, she was determined to get out of Tenshukaku because if she indeed died there she was going be assimilated by the leylines of the current world, She wasn't supposed to died there because that wasn't the happily ever after that was promised to her 😢
I'd like a 2nd Wanderer video if he ever gets another major story development. His birthday cards (if canon), the Interdarshan Championship, lines about him and Sethos - it all makes it seem like he's coming out of his shell more. And I can't wait to see how he is in the summer event next patch.
With the new event, it is teased that wanderer will get a role with Albedo & Durin, probably against the " Lost Control Albedo", too.
Guess the Tsaritsa tolerates the likes of Crucabena and Dottere so long as they proven to be useful to her.To quote Lucas Grey from Hitman World Of Assassination,'Sometimes,even monsters serve a purpose'.
Tsaritsa is one thing but i still have no idea as to why the fuck Capitano is tolerating them, he seems more righteous and honorable so i wonder what's going on in his mind.
@@motemo8413 Mayhaps he doesn't know? I can see Dottore keeping his stuff a secret from him fully aware that the man can, and would, beat his ass for what he has done
And as long as he is useful to the Tsaritsa, he will be ok in that regard
@@rebeccacourtney5286 well, not sure about this. Even if he didn’t give reports, and masked everything he does, I’m pretty sure some people in Fatui know it, and that he uses it as a punishment, not talking about Collei who left him but pretty sure she said something to Cyno, he passed to Lisa, she added 2+2 and so they know. Also, there’s Diluc, who also knows what Dottore is doing (at least he knew for some time) and despises him, and wouldn’t hide his secrets, I don’t believe he would hide it at least. Also, pretty sure some of the Fatui wondered about Krupp and why isn’t he serving Dottore anymore…
You're mentally ill if you believe Dottore is anything like Crucabena.
FIrstly, we don't even know WHICH Dottore was at the House of the Hearth, it is more than likely a Segment, since I would find it difficult to believe Zandik would waste his time playing second fiddle to someone like Crucabena. However, the former HoTH still served a purpose, and likely, a segment who had a personality more along the lines of her is the one which was sent, we see they have different personalities from what the manhua offers in that younger Dottore (who most definitely is a Segment, especially considering the redesign and personality change, HE is a complete maniac, Zandik is not.)
Zandik sees the bigger picture, just like the Tsaritsa, and we have gotten hints MANY times that Teyvat is essentially a simulation. To condemn Dottore/Zandik for what he does in the interest of saving humanity would be like condemning well, yourself, for what you do in the interest of gathering materials, etc. for your characters in the game. You're murdering those poor Hilichurls despite knowing they were once people, etc. and you excuse it by saying it is a game, right? Genshin isn't real, so therefore you're not actually committing atrocities every single day for primogems to advance your account.
Well, neither is Dottore, in the interest of waking people from Teyvat's cycles/samsaras, and ushering the Tsaritsa's new world, where people will be allowed to flourish without the petty constraints of Celestia. Crucabena was someone who relished in suffering for no other reason than to inflict it, she had no grand goals, no bigger plan, we don't even know WHY she became a Harbinger, other than Genshin sweeping for/retconning Arlechomo's less savoury qualities out of fear of a Scaramouche 2.0 situation (they NERFed her darker side, creating this convoluted, shitty character, and trivialising the WQs in Inazuma/Liyue that concern her, absolutely disgraceful if you ask me.)
In any case, you're quite bold to condemn someone without even knowing their full story, we know little of Zandik, and everyone has condemned pretty much every single Harbinger before their story is released. It is very clear Dottore is not only extremely loyal to the Tsaritsa (to the point of sacrificing his own research for her sake), and as we know from Hoyo dev interview, he WILL be a very huge part of the plot, as will the Tsaritsa, we also know the top three Harbingers are in a class unto their own, with lesser Harbingers such as Arlecchino, though not limited to her, being kept in the dark about what the Fatui's true intel/intentions are.
To say nothing of the fact everything we know about how Teyvat works that didn't come from Dainsleif pretty much exclusively came from Dottore, so we have him to thank re: descenders, Teyvat being fake, etc. which Nahida passes onto us, but which is DOTTORE'S own intel. Since he has a bad relationship with Arlecchino and her own "intel" is often flawed, inaccurate, and very limited (we see this on various occasions, she has hubris but not the intelligence or strength to fight anyone who isn't a child or an amnesiac Traveller who forgot they could use elemental power...), we can presume Dottore's intel came from his own efforts and understanding of Teyvat, of which we are direct beneficiaries. Arlechomo, on the other hand, has contributed nothing to us despite being in intel, neither have Scaramouche or Childe, despite being friendly to us (aside from gossip about the other Harbingers, nothing special. We even see from Scaramouche how that can simply prove "wrong," granted, due to stupid retcon reasons but nevertheless, it remains that voice lines can simply be completely wrong, as Arlecchino's remain unchanged despite the pathetic sweeping on Hoyoverse's part.)
Most importantly, we see Nicole bear witness to the events in Tatarasuna and Dottore's role in them, etc. and she never condemns him, understanding well the system of "fate" in Teyvat. You could completely erase Dottore from history and everything would have panned out exactly the same anyway, we learn that from Scaramouche's equally cringe-worthy, yet at least somewhat useful, AQ interlude. Fate is not so easily challenged in Teyvat, and even if you remove an entire being from the equation, events will remain the same if they are fated to occur, such as the downfall of the Raiden Gokaden being originally Scaramouche's doing, but after he 'erased' himself from history, it fell all the same. Likewise, if you got rid of Dottore, someone else would've found Scaramouche and the events of Tatarasuna would still happen, Collei would still have been treated for Eleazar with the non-retconned events of the manhua occurring (though it is worth mentioning that, unpleasant though she may have found it, Dottore DID save her life, even Tighnari is forced to concede this, which is why he isn't hostile to Dottore despite knowing who he is at Pardis Dhay. Moreover, he states the Dottore segment he encountered held no malice whatsoever, so every segment is truly different, adding to the further complexity of The Doctor.
Sorry every character can't be one-dimensional soy slop like Arlechomo, some of them actually are well-written like Dottore. Dottore mogs that creepy femcel any day. As for Crucabena, well, she does create a lot of questions as to why the Tsaritsa would ever allow someone like her, since unlike Dottore, she has no aim that we know of nor even reason for becoming a Harbinger. Her entire reason for existing is just to make Arlechomo look better by comparison, which is how you know the latter is a shitty character -- good characters don't need to have a SatAM villain sloppily shoehorned to have their stories make sense, and it is so clear she WAS Arlecchino, it tbh would've been better even if they did something similar to Furina's consciousness split, insteaad of the nonsense they pulled. Not Hoyo's best writing to be sure, but Fontaine has been a weird version, with three great characters (Furina, Neuvillette, Navia) and an entire roster of utterly forgettable, inconsequential ones (aside from Skirk, who did more for the plot and player interest in the 3 seconds she appeaed than anyone else did in that entire AQ....)
@@motemo8413Y'all are laughable.
Capitano and the top three Harbingers absolutely work together, alongside Pierro and the Tsaritsa. Everyone else is in the dark about what the Fatui are truly about, as we learn from Arlechomo not knowing anything about Pierro and being purposely kept at arm's length from the true Fatui inner circle, likewise re: Childe, who was sent on a wild goose chase for Scaramouche in Inazuma.
On the other hand, in WNL we see Capitano ask Dottore about the Electro Gnosis, he knows about the AG project, etc. It's so funny that y'all think we're dealing with such black and white, simplistic plots, when the Fatui are against the HP and that will doubtlessly require sacrifices on EVERYONE's part, for the greater good/goal.
Capitano is righteous, but he isn't the moral arbiter of anything, lol. Furthermore, Dottore is more so someone who does what is necessary for a goal/plan, he isn't Crucabena or even someone like Pulcinella, lmao. Y'all need to actually examine a character before condemning them, oh and it would probably help to keep in mind that much of the manhua has been retconned/the Dottore featured there is clearly not Zandik/Prime, but clearly a segment. Their personalities couldn't be any more different, which is why my man got a whole redesign.
A lot of the concepts from the manhua got retconned, actually, such as the diplomats being randos. Now, the Fatui Harbingers ARE the diplomats, but there are other differences, such as the manhua Segment not giving a toss about the Fatui at all and just doing what he pleases, whereas Omega/Zandik is willing to sacrifice his own research for the Tsarista's plan, something that segment would never do. This is made clear even in the cutscene with Nahida, yet y'all want to conflate.
4:39 The BTW got me lol, like, they don't even bother telling us her name in the main storyline
I am so attached to the Eleven Fatui Harbingers because they remind me of this organization group called the Organization XIII (13) in Kingdom Hearts 2, Kingdom Hearts 358/2 Days and Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories specifically (it's not the one in Kingdom Hearts 3 cus it's different).
Their black coats also remind so much of the Harbinger's white coats. It's a mysterious powerful organisation with a strong army full of monsters and each of the 13 members have so much personality, has a grand goal and hidden agendas that they can do whatever they want as long as they don't get caught and finish the tasks at hand and so unpredictable that you could never tell if they would betray their comrades for their own benefit, follow their superiors goals till the very end or to join the good guys to get rid of them. Most of all, each of their boss fights are so different from each other since they have different weapons that don't overlap, and they can do unique attacks with and without their weapons. They even have their own unique music just like the fatui harbingers. Anything I can say other than this is spoiler territory so yeah play the games yourself
I just really love this mysterious organisation that is made of powerful individuals with hidden agandas fulfilling a grand goal trope, and I hope that hoyoverse keeps cooking with the Fatui Harbingers and give them some of the best writing possible
The Org XIII to Fatui pipeline is real
Fellow Kingdom Hearts enjoyer spotted ❤🫵
That's what got me feeling drawn to the Harbingers in the first place due to my hyper-fixation of Kingdom Hearts's Organization XIII😅❤
i’ve drawn the harbingers (+ lumine and aether) in the black coats before, but i’d never even thought about the white coat thing lmao! both groups sure are awesome
YESS. Exactly!! I feel like that’s one of the things that made me so interested in the Harbingers. I don’t want to get spoilt, but I also found it funny how many similarities there are design wise between Scaramouche and Xion
24:12 Correction. She only tries to steal the Gnosis. And she doesn't change her mind, she just fails to do it, because Furina didn't have it.
I like Arlecchino because she is his morally grey character that is at times a walking contradition. that's what makes her interesting.
What I don't like is certain fans deluding themselves into thinking she's "a good person" just because she doesn't do the hunger games shit like her perdecesor or saved Lynette like she did. She may be a whole lot better than Crucebana but she's still grooming orphans into becoming child soldiers and that doesn't make her a good person. This is a good thing!! She is supposed to be a villain!! But let's not kid ourselves, Arlecchino is not a good person.
She is though. Very Traumatized and damaged however. You have to remember she was forced to run the House of the Hearth.
What do you think will happen if she doesnt decide to make Child soldiers and just stop?
She's stuck between a rock and a Hard place and has to make the Best and most pragmatic Choices she can.
I think that's why she wants to make Lyney the next king. Hopefully she can break the House from the Fatui. I think she wants Lyney to be the next King of the house because he can change it to somethinf she can't because of how damaged she is as a Person.
A character having a traumatic backstory doesnt automatically make them a good person. Arlecchino is not a good person.
@@Gwen1661 Dude analyze her Circumstances. She can't do much unless she's actively slolwy walking the House away from the Fatui. If her decision to walk Back Fatui operations in Fontaine is any indication. She's trying to walk the House away.
Exactly. She's interesting and complex. She can be "forgiving" if it suits her, but people need to remember she's essentially grooming these kids to be good little soldiers willing to give up their lives for her or the Tsarista.
Arlecchino despite overall not being exactly a "good person" still has standards and certain lines she refuses to cross like not allowing Dottore to continue what he was allowed to do to the House Of The Hearth's orphans by Crucabena. And her traumatic backstory does make some to most of her actions in present day understandable but definitely not excusable.
I think Arle herself said to the Traveler that she likes being misconceived. If I remember correctly, it's when she lets Traveler know that she knows Lyney is going behind her back. That or its when she gives Lyney another day. Traveler expresses surprise she would be lenient and not just kill him on sight, and that's when she says that.
i like the harbingers and i like that they're bad people. but what i like more than just their cruelty, is their determination. they are 100% having their own agendas and for most of them, they have no true loyalty to the Tsaritsa. Something Childe critiques them for, as he truly is loyal to the Tsaritsa. But I love that most of them aren't truly dedicated to the Tsaritsa, but rather they follow her because it is convenient and beneficial to them.
I believe that not only does the Tsaritsa knows this, but she welcomes this even if some of them are detestable like Dottore. I like this because you would think, if the top 3 have the power rivaling the Gods, why would any one of them follow a single archon AND forced to work with others? Afterall, they could rebel and most people would be powerless to stop them. That's why it's so interesting that they are Harbingers. They didn't have to be here, but they are and they're damn near an unstoppable force.
About Wanderer, wasn't there is a lore thing about him and Alhaitham going to arrest some people, and while he was the one beating the shit out of everyone Alhaitham was just...There waiting for him to finish ?
No, but, I believe that Nahida is the best god for him, because both are quite similar yet opposite. And I like how even if he is still an asshole you can see he is trying to kinda redeem himself and help other (Like when he gave that bottle of water to Tighnari)
looll, you're right. I remember it was to track the son of the diadem's owner who want to sabotage the event and take the diadem so he can gain his father's wealth or something. I guess he's the type to not like negotiation and pick a "faster" route, yeah he is still very much a jerk
and Alhaitham you're no different 🤣
...Yeah, that sounds about right; Wanderer doing his "negotiations" and Alhaitham just letting him cook.
@@Sarah-iq3sc Honestly, I can see him staying a jerk, but that still care for human life
@@ZE.brigitte loveable jerk 🥰
@@Sarah-iq3sc living up to my pfp here, but if you listen to Alhaitham's voice lines he's actually just socially idiotic. He definitely doesn't try to be a jerk, he just comes across as one because he doesn't like being around people
my nerd glasses are now off so you can continue lol
I really like Dottore. He's such an interesting character and finally a REAL villain. I'm really excited to see more of his lore in the future :D !!!
My main problem with Scaramouche is the caviat that, because Irmunsul, the world forgets him. Any potential for character interaction is just gone (like how he meets Mona again in the 2024 summer event, but naturally they play it like nothing happened), and it feels like, just like the horrible actions Raiden did, his evildoing is just brushed over because he's so dreamy and handsome!! It feels like all that buildup they had for his character just goes to waste because, in a literal sense, nobody knows or cares about it now, and because of Scaramouche's personality, he doesn't care that the world has forgotten him either. And if you think about it, he kills himself twice when he gets his memories back since he just goes back to being the mean version of himself, just with no motive to do evil now. They literally just had to reset him in the story, and it makes his prior involvement feel like a complete waste because it doesnt matter.
Also Arlecchino's whole thing of "I don't ACTUALLY kill kids, I just gaslight them into thinking I'm going to kill them! (unless you count a memory wipe as a metaphorical death)" I get that she has her reasons for grooming child soldiers, and that's its to meet her own ends, but it still feels like they have to handwave some things so that she has "good" in her rather than being completely evil or morally gray. It feels more like Lyney chooses to stay with an abuser after seeing what he does at the end of her quest and how even the young kids were turning on each other and growing bloodthirsty. I do like that they are morally gray, just wished they commit to it more rather than having to force in a plot point or two in order to say "theyre good people actually"
Ego death is still death.
scaramouche had his comeuppance in the form of another betrayal and his literal suicide attempt. inversion of genesis was an in depth allegory for buddhism, what with the big theme in wanderers character of rebirth. scaramouche "died" and was "reborn" as wanderer, given the chance to atone for his actions and become a better person (or achieve nirvana. another big thing with buddhism is how desire leads to suffering, which is again a theme in scaramouches character, what with his desire for a heart and his desire for divinity and greatness caused him nothing but pain and suffering over 400~ years.) not to mention the fact that they arent at all even done with wanderer yet, and he has _directly said_ that he plans on telling everyone hes hurt that he has hurt them, and wants to let them do whatever they want to him. also, kazuha has said (about akame kanenaga, but akame kanenaga is a parallel for scaramouche) that hed "rather see him realize and atone for his mistakes than see him punished for them" which scaramouche is currently doing in universe. wanderers path to becoming a better person and healing is _gradual_ and not as instant as you make it seem.
i see a new otsu vid, i click, very simple person
Yeah, I really anticipating when they will reveal Childe's curse by the foul. Bennet is also the same, having a bad luck while Childe is always in the middle of Chaos with his demon in mind.
Honestly the only way I see Dottore being playable is if one of his newer segments survived the purge and is out for revenge. There can be themes around whether or not the segment is responsible for the other's actions as even though they're the same person, they're also different.
In my opinion Genshin doesn't have "Villains" in the classic sense, just different people and groups with their own agendas doing what they consider right.
The Abyss Order, The Fatui and even Celestia are all groups that are introduced as just villains to be stopped but the line between who is right and wrong becomes increasingly blurred as we learn more and more in the story.
Even Dottore who is the closest we have to "pure evil" only does what he does in the name of science and human evolution and not because he just enjoys causing pain and i am curious so see the role he will have on the story
And wtf does that mean, in now way DOttore doing what he does in name of science redeem him. WTF is your statement. Is Ramsay Bolton also not classicaly villain, because he flayes people alive because he "thinks its the right thing to do???"
@@antihmota4625 When did I say that this redeems him?
I said that he is a character who does what he does for reasons that in his mind are worth it and not because he likes to cause pain.
He won't just kill someone on the street for no reason or torture someone just for pleasure, but at the same time he won't hesitate to use an innocent person as a guinea pig to advance his research. (This is all considering Prime Dottore, as we saw that each of his segments can have very different personalities)
Causing immense pain and death in the name of science is evil though.
@@aeso3555 Yes, it is definitely evil but for me it is not "Pure Evil" as there is nuance behind it
Characters that are "Pure Evil" are those with extremely basic reasons or no reason at all for doing what they do with good examples being Scar, Jafar, Jack Horner, Voldermort, Palpatine, etc...
@@Truck-kun11 With Palpatine I would argue here. He wanted to turn republik into empire and by that gave stability and peace to every corner of galaxy, not selected few that was under republik cape.
Does he ruled with iron fist and terror? He did.
But for common folk mostly it was a dream scenario (excluding some extreme cases which were only few [don't know much outside movies, but as far I know it indeed was only few]).
Imagine that your planet is controlled by rogues and scumbags and you literally are afraid to set your foot wrong, cause in other case you gonna end up as slave and republik have you deep in their ass.
Empire provided protection which is mentioned in "Empire Strikes Back" and they offer employment and contracts directly with them that finally allowed engineers around galaxy to develop something new, cause as we know during republik times everything in terms of technology was in stagnation, cause Jedi wanted so.
And everything that only for exterminating Jedi and loyalty for Emperor.
We actually know quite a bit about Dottore from the flashbacks in Scara's story and the notes in Sumeru
He was ostracized and called a monster by everyone so he became a monster, doing his best to abandon his humanity, In essence the opposite of Wanderer's journey
6:24 I'm watching this with earbuds on and what a jump scare that sound effect was. I flinched and all haha. Anyway great analysis
I alredy disliked him and after this brief analysis of scara vs all other fatui before him I am surprised he is more morally corrupt than signora. Nahida is excesively good to even give him a chance and I am kinda surprised the traveler showed any mercy for him.
He changed a little on the 4.8 event ig
@@cupiidity_ I haven't done it but suspected as much thanks to the stream but I doubth anything would make me like him and the point still stands of how he compared for all his fatui career vs signora and the others, the difference is that scara found nahida and signora found raiden.
@@hectorlackless You should really do the event, it shows nahida's influence on him
Tartaglia's Agressiveness might be tied to his trauma from the abyss, survival of the fittest, he would be Really into getting stronger to protect the people he cares about.
It's most likely abyssal corruption than just trauma
His litteral constellation, the very thing that represent his fate, was warped by a all devouring narwhal to a point that the narwhal and his nature became tartaglia constellation its pretty obvious that it isn't trauma but something worse
@@massimilianoreali4398 Also his name if from Greek Mythology, so, it's only going to go downhill
@@thebidge honestly I just hope that pulcinella will not do low blow we have already hints that he basically have in his hand the family of tartaglia
@@massimilianoreali4398 I feel like he is a logical type of character. He want the best, but doesn't care about the sacrifice he will make
If they redeem Dottore I’m punching a wall as dottore’s n.1 enthusiast
they kinda already did, didn't they? i mean that moment in the AQ when he deleted his "evil" segments
@@явтрауресмеюсьhe didn't delete his "evil" counterparts, he deleted ALL other copies. And what makes you think the the original dottore is a "good" guy? He's pure evil lmao.
@@Blueberry173. why would he even delete his copies? Hoyo's gonna redeem him, they already did. He says that he hates his younger version of himself, but why? Because they're chaotic evil, but now he's GoOd lmao. There hasn't been a single non playable character with playable model yet and they're gona redeem this mf 100%
@@явтрауресмеюсь lmfaoooo do you even read the story properly? Go and watch the scene with nahida, he doesnt delete his "evil" counterparts he deletes all of them, that was the deal he had with nahida.
And no, the original dottore is evil too, he is literally the mastermind over turning scaramouche like how he is, causing the tatarasuna tragedy and even almost everything that happened in sumeru, he was working with the grand sage.
I am not saying that they "WON'T" redeem them but they haven't done it yet, the original dottore has done a lot of bad shit and has been a mastermind in all of it.
Also, signora had a proper model, but she isn't playable, so it's wrong to say he will be playable just because he had a proper model. He is a very important villain in the story and the problem is that the only way to redeem a person like him is to completely bullshit on the story, he doesnt deserve it.
Scaramouche was redeemed because he wasn't the mastermind who pulled the strings, but was a manipulated weapon. Dottore is literally in control with almost everything evil the fatui do lmao. It makes no sense to redeem him.
@@Blueberry173. proper model doesn't mean playable. He has fat default tall male model's cheeks. I know he's evil and all, i've read manhua, but they really did redeem him (partly). I'm kind of tired of writing in americano, so ответь мне на вопрос: зачем он удалил свои копии? Почему разработчики сделали так, что он ненавидит свои "молодые" и более "злые" свои копии?
I'll be honest with you. At this point in the story, I am 100% sure Childe would have saved Liyue himself if people or Zhongli hadn't. There is just 0 chance he wouldn't, especially after that quest with Knave + the dude likes to challenge difficult opponents. The only question would be, how long it would take him to do so since he couldn't really use foul legacy after he fought Traveler. Altho, again after Fontaine quests, I am sure the dude would just power up and not care lol. Therefor, I will put him on a higher scale for "not evil", we also don't really know what Tsaritsa is after or if she is actually evil, since so far every archon praised how good and warm hearted she was before Khaenri'ah war, but did not comment anything about now, just that she changed... Which doesn't necessarily means "evil". And Childe only agrees with Tsaritsa and no one else from HB (until he actually talks with Knave lol). As far as we know, all the orders might be coming from Jester~
For Scara, I think it's safe to put 2 time lines for him specifically, while yes the erased memory is his atonement of some sort it also represents rebirth for him or new beginning~ Therefor, Scara should be placed at the same spot as Signora (where he is originally placed on ur chart) and new Scara (however u named him) probably above Childe when it comes to "evil" and "not evil" ~
Knave is also not really evil or actually have any choice in the matter when it comes to joining FH, at least thats how I understood. She had to take her "mother" place after she killed her, if she didn't join she would have been killed and the kids from orphanage would most likely be kill or taken by Dottore as experiments, and after reading dialogue she had with Childe it's safe to assume she joined because of the kids. The kids also needed to be trained in order to survive as fatui or again, they would be killed or sent to Dottore. So, her grooming them is basically grooming them for their own survival.
For Dottore, I also don't think he would be a playable character. He is just too morally wrong for me to see Hoyo making him one of the playable characters. That said, I did watched a video where someone said that it would be possible if we were to play one of his clones that is actually good, I can 100% see that being the case. Otherwise, nope.
I also strongly believe that Jester is using Tsaritsa. He would be the main villain in Snezhnaya and he will be very morally right but at the same time very morally wrong. 100% will have to do with what happened in Khaenri'ah and will be some sort of plot for revenge.
I am very much so excited to see other FH, especially Columbina and Capitano (also finally get the full Childe story, it's been years now and all they been doing is fueling my curiosity towards him. What makes him so special? Is he actually a real MC of Genshin? Have we been all fooled this entire time thinking it was the traveler? I actually wouldn't be surprised) 😂
24:43 I disagree, she did punish Lyney, Lynette and Freminet. That's whole reason they fought in the first place.
15:26 I knew that the balladeer would be incredibly abusive and rude to his subordinates, but he would HIT them? I shoudlve expected that but i didn't know. Where did you find that out?
It’s stated in the Husk of Opulent Dreams set!
Something I would always like about Childe is how....Despite everything, he is still a kid at heart, heck, the game even said so ("Childlike exterior", "pretty boy"), and even is the youngest of the Harbinger, although, this childish side is kinda...Corrupted, in a way.
There was this long analysis by someone who is VERY good at analysis, but sadly don't post anymore, about him. And they talked about it
Basically. His Foul Legacy in the Golden House can be interpreted almost as a temper tantrum, and he needed to think a bit before realising that the Traveler had no chance (Btw, some translation of the game implies that the Foul Legacy prevent him from thinking coherently, which may add to this)
He also has yet to fully mature, because at the end, he doesn't want to share his boat with Signora.
And that his battle thirsting is like a child craving for something
Heck, it even stand today, because in the Archon Quest, despite him pretty much about to loose counsciouness, instead of like, going to the side to rest, he is being very petty and give that thumb down to Neuvillette (which is confirmed to be him being petty, look at the stickers)
And in Arlecchino story quest, not only he just, run away, instead of resting, but he immediatly want to spar.
Also, Arlecchino voiceline about him tell a lot too
Capitano might be the only one with morals
alright. correction. signora did NOT accept traveler's duel. rewatch it. traveler challenges her, signora quietly huffs, and before she can say a SINGLE WORD. raiden says "proceed." Signora is wary of the traveler, childe says this. this is further proven by Signora trying to scare the traveler into calling off the duel, going "you are aware that the loser must die.. are you SURE this is what you want?" she was forced into the duel by inazuman law and murdered unrightfully.
Well.. guess the traveller might just fit in with the Harbingers. There's a slot open after all.
(Well several.. we still don't know anything about the 10nth, if they even exist)
Imagine being so evil that even Arlecchino wants to kill you
Archelino is a bit inconsistent as a character.. After meeting countless fatui Snezhevich in the desert, the chasm treated like disposable object. And let's not forget how these children become "orphans" but she's good and the orphanage is a big family lol..
They had to backpedal hard to make her playable.
"She's good" where? Did we play the same game? Or you just didnt understand her.
she's literally a gray characte or morally questionable and she only makes HOTH slightly better than Crucabena, although she still sends and makes fatui soldiers, which makes sense because that's her job. She may not understand how to love her children, but she still tries to cherish them as much as possible, for example when there is a big life-threatening mission, such as the fatui in the desert and the chasm, she will hold a large banquet as a way for her to show her concern, incase those who celebrated the party did not come back alive
she only acts according to her moral code, it cannot be justified as good or bad, if you don't understand this concept, you haven't read enough literature or character analysis
Don't know how you got this take. Arlechinno isn't written to be completely evil or completely good. She's probably one of Genshin's most complex characters. In her story quest (spoilers ahead), she raises the children to believe that if they ever try to leave the House, they'd be executed. When she fights her kids, she doesn't hold back and in the cutscene both the Traveller and the children look absolutely terrified of her because yk, they believe they're gonna die. She's better than Crucibena, that's for sure, but she isn't this all loviñg completely benevolent parental figure to them. She takes in orphans and basically raises them to be soldiers for the Fatui - a life they never asked for. That being said, she also does care about them in her own way. She holds the hand of her dying children and enacts vengeance for her so she can rest peacefully in her teaser. She burns away the memories from the children who wish to leave the House instead of murdering them. She's a walking contradiction, and that's what makes her so interesting.
@@gubs-subs Arlecchino still hold back when she fought traveler, lyney, lynette and freminet, she barely even trying. (Source : Lyney dialogue after Traveler fought the Knave)
In regards to playable Harbingers, I actually think its better if certain Harbingers don't become playable.
Namely, Dottore, Pierro, Pulcinella (Rooster) and Pantalone. Dottore is someone that I hope we get to fight, as he is probably *the* most evil person in Teyvat.
I wouldn't count out Signora just yet though, I think theres a very real possibility of her having a sort of phoenix rebirth.
Dottore has a playable model, when will yall accept this?
If they want Dotorre to be playable at this point kt will probably have to be along the lines of a much younger segment who takes issue with what theyve done. Like, the Dotorre who made the deal with Nahida is currently the only one left and there has to be a reason for including the segments at all, they cluld just as easily have done the trick with making us think he was leaving Sumeru with an illusion or something, theres got to be a reason for such a complicated idea being implimented at all, and consequences to their loss...like maybe him trying to make more since nothing is stopping him from just replacing the loss, only to discover it isnt working the same as before for some reason he didnt anticipate (but Nahida likely did) and that leads to a version of Dotorre who thinks differently from the ones whove been on the same wavelength as all the others to the point that theyre functionally 1 person with different bodies instead of snapshots of different periods of his life suddenly existing in this period where hes a Harbinger doung insane experiments all over the world.
Its a stretch i know, but SOMETHING needs to come out of the whole segment idea, and a playable Dotorre (or, Zandik, i guess?) Who opposes his own other self but who the rest of the world has...extremely complicated feelings about at the very best, would be an interesting way to go about it, especially with identity being kind of a big topic for Hoyoverse in general and among the Harbingers specifically. And, as i said, the only way to feasibly make a playable Dotorre is to not even try to redeem the one we currently know, hes way too far gone and unforgivable.
signora, childe and scara: quite peaceful and sad
Dottore: evil in person
If Detore ever becomes playable I would bet my account that it would be a newlywed created segment of himself that harbors no sin.
That’s what I am saying- a fledgling out of the nest…
I might be overcooking but get this: Dottore might be the least evil harbinger.
Because let me preface this with some opinions and speculations of mine. (delulu moment) Murder is evil, and Dottore has committed a lot of murders. He has also done a lot of illegal experimentations, and a lot of them were fatal. So, in the view of Teyvat, he is evil, true.
Teyvat it speculated to be a world that's in a Samsara, a.k.a. it's been on a cycle, and we also know that fates are already written in the stars, as if your entire life is predestined. It is also speculated to be its 7th cycle, because all characters from Teyvat have 6 constellations, and you need the character itself too, making it 7 copies, and in one of the loading screen tips, it says that "Wherever you go in Teyvat, the stars will always have a place for you." In that case, I'd like to speculate that the "Truth of This World" is that Teyvat is a simulation, a program of sorts being run by Celestia. (not really a program but yk what i mean. for example, something like ark survival evolved, kinda...)
Dottore knows the "Truth of This World", therefore, I'd like to say that in Dottore's mind, he is not killing anyone, he is not harming anyone, this is all just a simulation, this is all fake. Death means nothing if you are going to be reborn in the next Samsara. One would not call a programmer deleting lines of code from a program _evil._
Yeah, I'm delusional, I should seek help... huh...?
p.s. my english not good, pls no bully me
@@LeonardoGoldenThis is interesting. I’m replying, so that I can come back to this comment in a few years
@@LeonardoGolden Commenting because I wanna see if you cooked something with this theory in the future fr
The fun thing but at times problem with genshin is that 99% of its lore is implied or shut behind 500 hour world quest that goes on forever and by the end you just want it to end. Not all the Harbingers and other characters development is plainly visible or even confirmed, even with how deep we are into the game there’s a very large amount of lore and story that is just walls on walls of text, random references here and there, or just random world quests that no one cares about. It must be so that people who want to just play it as a fighting game can while lore players can go diving for the lore like a mystery or puzzle game which is nice at times but sometimes it can take away or make developments seem like they come out of nowhere.
20:45 Dottore also used children from the house of the hearth to experiment on when Crucebena was the harbinger of the house.
Love the video essay! Although i do have to point out some of your observations were slightly short sighted and plain, not that it’s a bad thing, but most of the harbingers are actually more complex than this, and it would change their rankings, especially on arlecchino and tartaglia
i totally agree!!!!!!!
No way Dottore gets a redemption arc right, RIGHT HOYO?!?!
After the things he has done to Collei, Scaramouche, all the folks at the dessert, and who knows how many other poor souls, HOPEFULLY NOT
I hope he won't have a redemption arc
They won't give him a redemption arc. Remember Dottore's Clones?
They'll give us a Blank Clone as a Pull.
Hmm, let's see:
- Charmed a classmate and strangled her to death, then lured tigers to mutilate her body to cover up his crimes.
- Set loose a ruin grader to kill off the rest of his classmates to eliminate any weaknesses.
- Conducted experiments on Eliezar patients using DISMEMBERED body parts.
- Kidnapped children from all over Teyvat to conduct more experiments. One of the victims being Collei.
- Sabotaged the Mikage furnace inTatarasuna, killed Niwa, manipulated Kabukimnon and corrupted him into becoming a cynical, nation destroying monster. Oh yeah, and Tatarasuna is still devastated to this day.
- Implied to have been the one responsible for luring Ursa the Drake to attack Diluc's caravan, resulting in Crepus' death and sending Diluc down the path of leaving the KOF and becoming a brooding anti-hero. Also mocked and taunted Diluc during their encoutner.
- Collaborated with the sages of the Akademiya to create an artificial god by putting the citizens of Sumeru inside a looping dream.
- Worked with Crucabina, another equally morally bankrupt Harbinger.
This man has traumatized and ruined the lives of at least three playable characters (Collei, Wanderer and possibly Diluc). At this point, there needs to be a therapy group for all of his victims.
This man has the word EVIL plastered on his face and he'll wear it with pride.
@@aeso3555 "This man has the word EVIL plastered on his face and he'll wear it with pride.", more like, he wouldn't care about being called evil. It's just a word to him, nothing more, nothing less.
He is just "happy"(insanely so) to be able to continue doing his sick experiments, without caring what anyone might think of him.
I really don't think that signora needed backstory or screen time. She did her job in procuring multiple of the gnosis and got what was coming to her at the hands of electro archon. No matter how stong you are or devoted to something you are, you will always face obstacles and the raiden shogun was the one she couldn't overcome
I believe that Arlecchino is a case of "hoyo wanted to sell a character". She contradicts earlier lore about her to be nicer in eyes of players, all horrible stuff they can put off they put off to Crucabena. Essentially, she doesn't feel like a character to me, but a marketing ploy. "Oh, she's the one players liked most in Lazzo, we can decide what we can do in Fontaine, yay!"
Thank you, you put everything I think about her into words. I never really connected with her because I just kept seeing a „marketable cool and over powerful mommy“ instead of an actual character
Yeah I fricking agree, but unfortunately this is a Chinese GACHA game so her badness HAD to be nerfed. I'm more interested in Crucabena now, but I know she will probably never be mentioned again (another character with missed potential, thanks Hoyo!)
@IMtiredal but we also saw other Fatui from the House before 4.0, who referred to current Arlecchino as someone to be feared of even for the inside circle. Aranyaka Fatui npc, and Tanit quest Fatui npc are scared of being part if the house, and I believe Crucabena is too dead by this time to be responsible.
@@Vickyef619 That has never changed she is still quite frequently described as being a feared by all the kids in the house.
However if you do go back to those previous quests you'll find someone who states themselves that they don't actually have a problem with the house. This is one of the biggest pieces of misinformation about it they don't want their younger sister to go there because they're younger sister wants to follow a very specific career path the house is not the best place for that. ( you don't send someone who you know wants to be a dancer to military school regardless of whether you are ok with the military school you send them to a dance school)
Honestly this bugs the hell out of me because people need to realise that the characterization of her was not just changed the characterization we got about her back then is very similar the only exception is with the voice Lines.
The problem with these voice lines is that everybody jumped on them and let their head cannon run wild, completely forgetting the fact that the two people who gave the voice lines aren't the best narrators.
Childe is very much not the best judge of character and has been shown to be easily manipulated and Wanderer has a pessimistic 98% of the people he meets.
What people mean when they say that they change her character to make it more marketable whether you like to admit it or not what it actually comes down to is my head canon didn't align with what the actual thing was so clearly they changed it.
@volfawott7417 Alright try to make sense of her character then. What is her motivation? Help the kids? She was at least capable of killing them off. Help Fontaine? No, she states that it was abt the kids, but we see how she cares abt them. Her own goals? Good, what are those??? She's not a fleshed out character, she has some traits like "ruthless" or "demanding", but what drives her, what is she about? You cannot even make a guess, bc her lore was written in two states: "pre-Lazzo", "post-Lazzo". Pre-Lazzo Arlecchino was about running a horrifying spy-like organization, post-Lazzo Arlecchino is about "Traveler has to tolerate her at least somewhat".
Unreliable narrator is a trope of when we're fed misinformation, yet combined it gives a grain of truth. It's not an easy way of retconing a character. I'm convinced, hoyo just saw how popular she got and made her a Fontaine Harbinger. Unfortunately, it led to some story mess that she is now
Underrated video with amazing art!
8:25 La signora is actualy kinder than we can see on game, it's said that she loved visiting the house of the heart snd bring childrens gift because she felt loved or something, i think that overall she wanted to kill the world bc "the world killed her love" (idk just my speculation)
23:41 there's a theory saying that he could have been with Lisa at the Academia, (as most of us know she will soon die) that he fell in love with her and all those experiments are to find a way to make her live longer. that could make him like -1% less evil lmao
28:11 acctualy we know, Arlechinno is a decendent of the red moon dinasty (full or red moon i dont remember the name) she is from kenrhia acctualy
anyway sorry if it's not too accurate, this video was fire
as for your second point, lisa is a normal mortal human who has only lived like 35~ years at most, and dottore got kicked out of the akademiya HUNDREDS of years ago, theres no way for them to have gone to school at the same time
I'm somewhat annoyed by Arlecchino's moral ambiguity because it feels like, to me anyway, that it was only written in to give the writers a way to justify the popular theory that the Fatui "had good intentions all along", a potential twist that I absolutely hate. The Fatui have done so much illegal and violent shit that it's basically impossible for me to see them as "good guys", but just as I'm thinking "I guess if there was a kind of rogue faction with the Fatui that could potentially explain it away, but there's been no indication that has been the case." And then by the end of Arlecchino's introduction the House of the Hearth was pretty much established to be that rogue faction, and I was just so overcome with a sense of "Well, better late than never! I GUESS!!!" Her voice lines even have her basically saying "I may be loyal to the Tsarista, bUuUuUuUuT if she does something I don't agree with I would fight against her. Hint, hint, wink, wink, nudge, nudge- **turns on megaphone and places it next to your ear** GET IT?! I'M FORSHADOWING!!!"
It’s like the parody of “The Shawshank Redemption” where Peter very slowly turns and looks at the audience when he comments on the fact that Andy and Red being friends - as Red is black - would make it more special for the audience.
I don't know about the other harbingers, but Dottore's goal has always been good, for humans to defeat teyvat's law is a good goal, but the methods are evil but also realistic i guess
How evil Arlecchino's current actions depends on how you view Teyvat. Is there place for orphans. We know some of them are in max security prison just because. Arlecchino was raised to believe survival of the fittest mentality, so in her mind rising children with skills less than savory in our world might be only way for them to survive in Teyvat. I think Arlecchino has best intentions for people of House in a world that doesn't have ways to protect people less fortunate than others. Arlecchino's motivation might just be to keep people of the house alive, if so she would be morally good character in Teyvat. If she had other motivations for the house she would be evil.
Dude, she trains child soldiers, and we have confirmation that they DIE, like fucking die from missions. She also accepts psychopaths, like Foltz (may he burn in hell). This is like saying a pedophile is good in a world with no orphanages because he is the only one giving orphans a home, with the caveat that he uses them to sell "stuff" to other pedos in his pedo organization. The fact they are kept alive is a bare minimum, and shouldnt influence at all the fact that the children are still exploited by the character in question. Now imagine how much worse is Arlecchino that she trains them for mission where they 1) DIE in, 2) most likely have to kill innocents in cuz i doubt the fatui conviniently only make her target evil people, 3) She abuses them psychologically, to the point they fear death with her, and even if the death part is fake they still get their memory whipped, which is essencially death of character.
People just bend over backwards for Arleccino because she is "cool character mommy" that sometimes helps out, but 100% does so with ulterior motives. And the writters know this, which is why they have to bend over backwards to justify her being more "sanitized" than Dottore, which is a very very low bar to clear. For example the flooding in Poisson, i call bullshit on Arlecchino just happening to be investigating a ruin near it with just the right amount of fatui and supplies to help the town, because they had to make her and the other fatui scum "heroes" in fontaine. I
@@MarcoCam1314 If you really think dying from missions means anything is laughable. In Genshin I think 99% of orphans would die from starvation, because the children would only seen as burden and nobody has resources to take care for them. There is monsters everywhere. Most infrastructure has been destroyed between the main cities that are guarded by military forces. The way Genshin world is, would in my opinion mean there has been millions of death from cataclysmic events. Cataclysmic event afterwards brings famine and destruction of civilizations means of production/knowledge..
Well in real world we don't have objective morality. Every action you take can only be measured as good thing or bad thing by your current environment and effects it has. We can hopefully say owing slaves is bad in our environment. We can also think world where a child is born in higher caste and has slaves by default. That child is raised believing it's only natural to be above other castes. That child mostly interacts with people who does cruelty to their slaves and for them it's as usual as sun rising every morning. When that child grows up and if they don't do cruelty to their slaves, because they think it's wrong and still owns them, in my opinion that person is very morally good even if they are doing the bad thing of owning slaves. That is because for them to do that is going against the common sense of that world for what they believe is right, and because my morality aligns with not to do cruelty to anyone.
@@dalkflamemastel4542 The fact the House of the Hearth uses an orphanage as a cover means that there exist the concept of orphanages there, which i doubt would all involve making child soldiers for a Nazi-type group. Just because they are orphans doesnt mean that suddenly just because you give them a roof you can do whatever with them and be "better". If so then the noble who adopted children to get their way with them is also "better" than the children wandering around the street. Thats an idiotic argument for having Arlecchino "sanitized" just because you people cant cope with the fact the character you like is evil or you feel forced to make the argument cuz another character you like would also be evil if you didnt.
The last point about moral subjectivity is also a bunch of stupid points, cuz regardless of what is considrered "morally acceptable" by a population doesnt matter to actually apply morals to it. People used to belief black people werent humans and so treating them poorly was a-ok, or that women were objectively inferior to men and so their agency didnt matter; just because a bunch of neanderthals in the past considered it so means nothing to the actual moral standing of the situation.
Arlecchino is not "owning slaves on principle but not actually being cruel" she is quite literally grabbing kids from the street, brutally training them into being spies and assassins by what is essencially psychological trauma and manipulation, then sending those kids into actual dangerous situations they can and have died in, only to have the audacity to be shown by the game as a "caring parent" just because on some socioathic level she cares for them superficially. Your entire analogy, which btw was still very much stupid, doesnt even apply here, because yours relies entirely on the premise that the individual is just doing somethin morally questionable in principle, but is not actually doing the thing in practice. Basically you used slavery in name only.
A more fitting analogy would be the same kid, but now as an adult and who used to be a slave themselves, working with an organization that deals with slaves by capturing them and bringing them back to their masters when they escape. While that happens the person in question also lends his slaves to other slave masters that work them, sometimes to death, with full understanding of what is happening. But at the end of the day, the ones that do return get a good meal and shelter, as if that even comes close to off-setting the other things above.
Arlecchino is not some kid too stupid to understand slavery, she is a fucking adult who also went through the process of the HotH. She understands the situation very well, she understands the kids will have a chance to die and is the one sending them into said dangerous situation. There is no angle you can take that would even come close to making the process of child soldiers reasonable. And one more thing, genshin is a narrative meant for us to experience, it means we are the ones that interpret it and the morals in it will go through our moral compass, the game explicitly tries to sanitize the harbringers to make them playable. If that wasnt an issue because "muh time period" then that wouldnt happen. This isnt something like 40k or some historical fiction, where either the morals are thrown to the side for roleplay purposes or accuracy. Arlecchino by all means is evil, you people being unable to accept it and tripping over to justify it is weird and the game doing so is also jarring to experience on a game where we are supposed to be morally good people.
@@MarcoCam1314 Well future people will tell you have thoughts that are very disgusting and barbaric it would seem okey to you, they say you are were very evil person for it. You have very black and white thinking. Past people used to think what we now think is stupid. It would be very arrogant to think we are not the same as them
.
I don't have any commitment to Arlecchino, but you sure use lot's of energy for hate.
What do you think we should do to cultures that doesn't abide your moral compass? Do you give their action any charitably or think them in the worst light and just label them evil if so how would you be any different then people who has done most harm to most people.
My first comment and later have one thing in common I was trying to point out how saying someone is evil should be judged by the environment the person is in. Many times I have said it depend how you view things about Teyvat. To me Genshin is very much like 40k world with different paint, others like you sees it much more lighthearted.
Where do you think morals come from? The world doesn't shed a single tear for us. Tell me what does your hell look like, and I can be sure to find place on this earth with much more suffering. Only thing that cares and only thing that ever care for us is us humans. If all of us would be erased from the world, it would mean nothing. The world would just go on like always. Moral beliefs can only come from us, because we are the only thing that value humans.
In our current world there is child soldiers even thought, i don't want it to be so. I don't want it, and when I think the situation around those children and their future options it seems pretty much given that will happen in this world. There is not a helping hand they can rely on, there will not be any miracles for them in this world. People who would help them are also just surviving, those who has the means would never do it out of the goodness of it. The morality itself has never had any value, only after society makes people follow it does it have value. Everyone is just trying to survive, and I believe we both are in privileged positions where we can do also something else like talking about morality.
Genshins doesn't give enough information to judge things, so it will just be how you see the world.
Examples
What is a ratio of orphans to children with parents?
Are there starving people? How many lose life from it?
How long is a average life?
How many have disabilities? can you even survive with them.
Is monsters most common reason for dying?
How many bodies linger on streets?
How many plagues there are?
Genshin doesn't show plight of normal human. The things I have seen in genshin makes me think its a hellhole, where people with extraordinary power are the only thing keeping small populace alive. That means they control all of their lives. Narrative is completely driven by privileged superhumans. If Genshin world is much more stable and not as cruel as I think of it, then sure Arlecchino would be a bad person. If it is as bad then Arlecchino would be just product of the cruel world trying to raise another set of humans capable survive in it.
I also don't have information that Arlecchino has taken any people by force to her organization.
The thing about slave owner was a way show how I would judge character or historical person in context of their environment. It was not meant to be one to one. Slavery to me is bad thing in it itself. I would call people owning slaves at this point disgusting because it's not excusable any way in the context of current world.
@@dalkflamemastel4542We DO have objective morals my guy, what are you going on about?
Evee heard of the Catholic faith and the Triune God?
BABE WAKE UP a new otsu video dropped
We all know you’re a virgin bro.
Will we get an update now that Capitano’s been more flushed out?
Speaking of Childe I seen a theory that he is the vessel for the third descender, which is the reason why Natlan has the “ode of resurrection”. Last gnosis… most likely will be seeing Mr world wide. I like it but we’ll see!
I saw the same thing.
He's definitely going to appear again, latest in Snezhnaya.
But as cool as it would be, i doubt they'd go that far with Tartaglia. But he's still the character with one of the most loose ends and Fontaine made it way, way more confusing.
But i do wonder which path is laid out for the traveller though. Will they make us join the Fatui to fight Celestia or do we stay an independant person. (probably the latter, because else there might be too much backlash from players)
Arlecchino is one of my favourite characters among both Genshin AND Star Rail.
Her morally grayness is so interesting, she lies to get what she want, but she doesn’t kill people without a reason. She terrorizes Furina but it comes from a place of concern over the children’s safety. She objects to the abuse of the house yet enforces it in some ways. She’s loyal but would fight the Tsaritsa and Harbingers with hesitation. ITS SO COOL!
She’s also just *aesthetically* one of the best characters, the simple black/white/red colour scheme, the unique hands, the wing, the EYES, the DOUBLE SCYTHE!??? THE SUIT?!??? It’s just amazing 10/10
Simp
@@nationalgeografic7687 Nice job liking your own comment lol
@@otho69AD oh thanks for reminding it, I just did it.
There is nothing morally grey about her, she trains child soldiers, which die in the missions they are sent into. She abuses them and causes them psychological and behavioral damage, turning them into sociopath due to the necesity of that to survive in the HOTH. She has no regard for their wellbeing beyond a very robotical "they are alive, thats the bar i set". This woman also operates an espionage ring for a terrorist organization, assassinates targets or send the kids to do so, which most likely arent all "child abusers" because is the fatui who give her the orders. You couldnt have possibly chosen a less morally grey character. By that metric Hitler was a also a morally grey person because he instituted animal right reforms during his period in control of Nazi Germany.
There are characters in genshin who have been killed (reasonably so) and framed as their death being justified and a-ok by the narrative for way less than what Arlecchino ALONE is responsible for.
i would loveeeeee for dottore to be playable, his design is sickkkkk
he will! hes listed as a playable claymore in the files :)
people already mentioned Capitano, and I agree, I WANT to know about him. How he is noble and honest and honorable and reasonable while being No.1 of The evil organisation TM. And also he is the first of them, which means he has power to rival gods themselves
BUT. Who I really want to learn about is Pantalone. He seems to be JUST a man with money, but soehow he is the 9th harbinger. They are given nubers based on their strenght, and... how this sly man is stronger than Childe? Like we litterally know nothing abt him besides that he is rich. What is his goals, what are his powers? Nothing. And that what make me want to know him. How this regular dude is higher than ultimate soldier?
Oh, and also, I don't see people talking, how we still don't know who is 10th Harbinger. Like... we have no mention of them at all. We don't even have hints towards that 10th place is empty now. No. Just zero information
Honestly, this is so random, but I’d love to see you do an analysis video of arlecchino specifically. I’d just love to see what you view her as in general from a writing standpoint. Imo, she was used really well in the AQ.
Please make a part 2 when more harbingers come out🙏
your thumbnails always look so lovely, I adore the artwork on them
i think having characters be on good terms with the traveler before becoming playable is one of Genshin's biggest flaws in term of storytelling. because the writers basically shape and twist and retcon A LOT of stuff to do that. it has gotten to the point where i am praying that the rest of the harbingers never become playable. just see them reach their full potential as characters. i will get hate for this for sure. i know. but Arle as a character is the biggest disappointment i have in the game. they literally got all her lore and what we heard about her and what she was built up as, and shoved that shit unto some last minute woman we never heard about, and had Arle kill her just before she launched. all this to justify the house of the hearth shenanigans. like yeah you ain't fooling me with that "morally gray" nonsense genshin. Arle was retconed. let's not be naive.
listen here, I'm not naive, but I don't think you understand her character.
As we know, her character has been discussed a lot since Inazuma, then by Childe and Scaramouche, and I think it would be very silly if you believe all the info about her. Arlecchino itself is a parallel or has similarities to Furina through theatrical concepts and misconceptions. You can see how Arlecchino appears in the Fontaine preview trailer on the theater stage surrounded by harbringers as her audience. Arlecchino also said she likes it when people have misconceptions about her, so don't be surprised if she is the opposite of what people think about her
@@daffafatih8669 Alright but it's rather obvious they had different plans for her and only arbitrarily changed it at last minute just to get more banner pulls. I can already tell if Capitano and Columbina become playable that their writing will be insanely neutered just for higher success.
30:56 it was said she was made the new Knave because the tsarita acknowledged her power and arlecchino just went a long with it
(I think, I’m just delulu at times)
the bloodstained knight theory makes me want capitano to be a two faced sociopath with overpowered charisma, that's why no one can say bad things about him or they simply don't know what he does in the shadows
I definitely feel like we are at a point with Dottore where he's been called bad for so long and in so many ways that even though he has fans, I think there would be more outrage at his playability. Especially considering he may have always been bad, if the speculations of him being Zandik are true. You could make a case that he might be trying to help people and that's why he's always trying to cure or improve things but being considered worse off than death in 99% of the cases with him probably doesn't show that it's for a good reason or whatever. Like fine he doesn't have to be morally good but he's not really the popular type of bad for the protagonist's side at least. It's heavily theorized and implied that the Tsaritsa isn't really a bad person and is doing whatever it is she's doing to free Teyvat from Celestia but... Dainsleif also says she has lost the love for her people, so does she really even care enough for us to accept it if their side is later revealed to be "good"?
I am not really a Scara fan even now but honestly he doesn't seem or feel as bad as he was placed. He isn't the same person anymore as he was, and only has the memories of that version of himself. There's also still some discrepancy about what Irminsul really *does* (some believe he still did all those acts but that Irminsul just rewrote the history of how they were done, others believe that he really was able to undo it but that those same bad things still happened due to other reasons, as if by an inescapable fate). I lowkey preferred the mellow blank slate version he was before his quest... again, I'm not a simp so I'm sure his diehard fans would have hated that lol, but if nothing bad ever happened, that is the version of him we would have eventually come to know. His current self may be grumpy, but he's never shown to be antagonistic anymore? He's actually shown to be way kind now lol, just sounds like he hates doing it. If anything it might just be because he's embarrassed due to trying to grow from his past? idk how to phrase it
For Signora, I'm pretty sure Venti knew who she was. I can't recall where but I'm fairly certain it's said he knows all of the children of Mondstadt or something to that effect. I know bringing her back would cheapen her death, but tbh that whole era of Inazuma felt so poorly executed that the death only felt like shock value.
Arlecchino feels fine to me as she is. All of the lead up to her fits with her imposing character and the fact that people didn't truly understand her. Childe and Scara are *supposed* to be "unreliable narrators" because all of the character voice lines about each other are from that character's perspective. (Like Tighnari's line about Layla literally has him scoffing at some of her sleepwalking antics because he thinks they are fake, but we know they are actually true.) And the Fatui we meet that talk about how terrible things are in the HoH also seem like the type she would have freed from their world using the special fire (which seems new considering it happened after Fontaine did). It's pretty clear that she's wanting to be some vague level of "normal" but because she didn't get that, she doesn't know how to give that. She wants Lyney to become her successor and yet it's more or less clear Lyney would never go to some of the lengths she seems willing to go to, or at least in the ways she is willing to do things. She seems like she wants them to literally change things. Also we do know about her powers and more of her backstory... hyv released info on it a few days after her release. I won't say it in case people don't want to be spoiled.
I certainly don't think every "villain" needs to be redeemed but some of the characters we haven't really established as villains yet. Arlecchino for example has killed at least one / two for revenge (implied from both of her trailers). But Clorinde has also killed due to her job, and we don't have a morality conversation about it. It's implied Sandrone killed someone/cut out their tongue but he wasn't a good guy so is she a villain? Really the only person we've seen as 100% villain is Dottore, as everyone else in some way shape or form has been given a sympathetic background to explain away their actions or at least make them more understandable, whether people find their morality good or bad.
An interesting video to watch!
4:13 She didn't accept, she HAD to fight. Raiden wouldn't have said "Proceed." If otherwise. That's why she says, "You've learned the ways of the land to your advantage" (despite Traveler never canonically learning this but wtv"
Everything seems on point the only thing that bothers me is that some people were saying that Arlecchino is too strong for the traveler and it seems people forgotten that the archon or other strong characters helped us defeat certain harbingers, to me Arlecchino level of strength is that of childe but more tricky and stronger because of her cold nature, the only harbinger that catches my eye is Colombina
At this point gensin should at least introduce one member of hexenzerkel
Sooo... so far the antagonists in Genshin have to chose one of these two paths:
"A morally bad but still interesting villain that is acting like how a villain SHOULD be acting, you know what fuck this let's just kill them off and almost never mention them again, they won't sell bc sensitive players will not handle them!"
"Oh actually this "villain" isn't as bad as we made them seem to be, it was some other character's fault why they ended up like this, they are just misunderstood and a little morally gray that's all! So please pull for them!"
So far Il Dottore is carrying the entire antagonist role with his balls while surrounded by fuckers picking flowers with the traveller.
Correction. Chinese Laws will now allow a full Villain to be Playable. The most they can be is Morally Grey lile anti hero or anti villain.
Like Sunday and Sparkle feom HSR. Sparkle was just a Chaotic Neutral for the lols characters and Sunday is more of the Symphathetic villain who doesn't want people to suffer but will do so by locking them in a Dream where the Impossible that cannot happen in reality can exist.
@@silverhawkscape2677 Meanwhile, Freeza keeps getting resurrected despite being someone who _revels_ in being a murderous, tyrannical lunatic (and also because Goku is a battle-hungry idiot).
I feel like Childe is one of the best villain (Yes, I'll consider him a villain)
Because, not only he never asked for a redemption, but, he act like a villain WHEN he should act like one, not randomly. Liyue show that he can be cruel and cunning. And Fontaine never had him had redemption, sure, he was guilty of the one crime he didn't commit, but it's still don't justifie him.
Heck, even his brawl with the Narwhal is likely purely selfish, because
1. He is batshit crazy
2. He had no idea of the prophecy, and how this thing will drown Fontaine. Also, the thumb down to Neuvillette has been confirmed not to be saying "he don't have much time or something like that", but instead him being petty, which I really like
Also, he DOES get karma at multiple point.
And, while it's likely he was corrupted by the abyss, it's still...Kinda his own fault, they don't try to make it the fault of someone else, even better, Childe quite literally accepted he'll get worst since, while he was "forced", he still agreed to enter the Fatui only to fight, and to serve the Tsaritsa
If i may ask. What is he carrying? Like being just evil? I could that you want someone to be purely evil, but the Fatui has never been stated being someone with only evil intentions. We dont really know what they even want except tht it has something to do with the gnoses. And antagonist's dont have to be evil, it just has to be someone that goes agents the main character's motivation. And pickibg flowers are quite the streach, even for the joke. If what you mean by picking flowers is talking to the traveler, and them not being on compleatly bad terms. Yeah you would be right. And the only one that could be said to literally be picking flowers, would be wanderer. The others are still evil, and very much so. Simply because childe doesnt kill infront of us, doesnt mean that he doesnt kill on a regular basis. And we do also have the abyss order, and if your gonna say "They go under the same things" they dont. They act evil, and are evil. Its fair if you want a completely evil character to play as, but saying the story doesnt have anything else then the doctor isnt really right, because it was never said that the fatui was that, and we have the abyss order.
My little theory is that is Dottore would be playable we could play one of his segments gone rogue and opposing his creator, but I am not sure anymore if that is possible since the deal with Nahida. But who knows maybe he did not keep his end of the deal and has one segment hidden away just in case.
Yea dottore probably has some backup that nahida can’t confirm because I don’t see Dottore staying true to his deal
@@naturalhornOr even if he did delete them all, he then just made more later
24:03 litterally near-assasinated furina at open space just to track hydro gnosis
holy the sound at 6:25 jumpscared me 😭
wouldnt it have made more sense for signora's first phase to be pyro and her second phase be cryo if shes using her delusion. like how childe has a hydro vision but uses his electro delusion after you beat his first phase?
I personally really love childe. In my view he's really the protagonists true Shonen esque rival who grows stronger in every reigon just like us and we even see him almost on every region too just like a Pokémon rival.
19:46
I really, really, really hope he becomes playable. Oh my gosh I really hope he does 😭 I don’t care whether or not he’s redeemed…
i think childe feels trapped, he has to do even the more extreme/evil orders in the end bc he knows he can't protect his family from the fatui, i think he is more then willing to fight but he also know he does not have a chance so he has just to obey, even orders he does not like.
I'm excited for when all of the Harbingers appear in the game so we can have another morality video
With Arlecchino and how they basically made the years worth of lore about her irrelevant and even gave her that ass pull at the end of her quest where she could conveniently wipe the children’s memories instead of having to kill them, it all reminds me of how Lestat from Ann Rice’s vampire books was retconned to have only feed on people who were immoral bastards in some fashion, in “Queen of The Damned”, at least if I’m remembering right.
Very Loud and Wrong lmao😂😂😂
Fire in Genshin is always closely related to the concept of "reborn" remember, so her fire can "reborn-ed" HOTH children are not an asspull.
@@daffafatih8669 it was an ass pull, it was for the sake of making her playable, murdering children simply because they want to leave the assassin/spy ring you run isn’t something you can have and still have them be likable, not believably anyway but there are people who sympathize with utterly delusional maniacs, that’s why you have people claiming MCU Thanos was “right” or people unironically quoting the Joker. They hand waved it by having her claim that Childe was simply being misled and she not only doesn’t mind the rumors spreading around her, she actively encourages them as it helps hide her true intentions.
@@thomasraines1396 first off, i don't sympathize with her and whatever she does in SQ, its just Hoyo "tone down" her evilness in her SQ, and I don't have a problem with that.
and she actually doesn't need the "aspull" power to be playable, its not like Hoyo planned her character to be dead in the future and Hoyo saw how ppl SIMP for her and they decided to pull an aspull for her lmao.
because her character file is alr existed far back then, and in her file name, it says "playable" not like Signora who was labeled "monster" in her file. Genshin is already being planned far back then, in terms of lore, playablity, etc.
I've seen you in many comments, judging many characters without in-depth analysis, thats very annoying bro to be honest
@@daffafatih8669 I never said you you specifically sympathized with her, I’m just saying I’ve seen characters who are way worse than her be sympathized with.
Yes they did tone her down, that’s what I’m saying.
Her being playable had to have some major twist, because pure evil characters aren’t allowed to be played in Chinese games from how I understand it, they always have to have something redeemable about them, which makes me wonder how The Doctor is going to be playable as he - as of now - is one of the more outwardly evil characters.
Genshin handles its writing months in advance, so it was just a matter of time until they did something to make Arlecchino seem more likable and they had that be that she’s not actually murdering children and is actively working against the terrorist organization she is apart of.
I honestly find her more appealing then Childe or Scaramouche because they write her knowing that she and Aether/Lumine will more then likely have to come to blows one day.
The Return Of The Queen
I feel like Genshin has kinda neutered all the villains in the story the moment it needs to sell them to us. Even non-villain characters who are supposed to have complicated or controversial histories are set up to be shocking and then immediately watered down.
Zhongli is the BIGGEST example of this that I can think of. We keep getting little lore bits about him being this ruthless warlord before Guizhong kind of gentled him, but every time we get a chance to maybe see some of the negative karma he's probably accumulated come back to bite him, he gets exonerated of all wrongdoing. He murdered the goddess of salt? Nope, her own people betrayed her. He threatened the old leader of Chenyu Vale? No, apparently the old leader... I don't really understand, actually. I guess they just realized they wouldn't be able to stay as an independent god and decided they'd rather destroy the land and people than swear loyalty to him? If someone else understood the story better than I did, let me know what actually happened there. But I got the impression that the only thing Zhongli/Morax did was just be the strongest contender in the war and clearly the one Celestia was going to pick, and then everyone else apparently died because they were betrayed or betrayed others or something else that wasn't his fault. I'd love to see something where Zhongli has to reckon with the cost of the gnosis that he gave away for nothing like he couldn't wait to be rid of it. Did he see all the gods he destroyed every time he looked at that thing? Well, APPARENTLY NOT, because it seems the only god he ever sealed away was Osial! So that's annoying.
Ei/Raiden has similar issues, but plenty of people have already picked her apart.
Obviously Nahida is an innocent baby, but even Rukkadevata apparently did nothing wrong, because Deshret messed with forbidden knowledge and had to be sealed away as a result, and the other god in the area, the goddess of flowers, also perished for reasons that weren't Rukkadevata's fault. We could've had an interesting exploration of how a god (that Hoyo isn't even trying to sell to us because she's dead!!) killed her rivals and then abandoned their followers and let her people cast them out and mistreat them, but no, even dead tree mom has to be squeaky clean.
And now we have Arlecchino, who has done literally nothing wrong that we can actually prove. She's apparently soooooo scary and unhinged, but we've only seen her be threatening and letting people THINK that she hurt other people before the narrative exonerates her. I was actually really annoyed when we met the former member of the House who had amnesia. It really undercut the significance of Lyney's actions in Arlecchino's story quest, because he didn't actually convince her to change the policies of the House, he just convinced her to be open about letting those who want to leave be allowed to live. I feel like the only thing that encounter did was make Arlecchino more innocent, which isn't what I want from one of the few major, actually scary villain characters in this game.
I'm very agree with this, I also found Arlecchino to be not evil at all (in my opinion). Yeah she did collect children from many places, but in the end they are given choice to live normal. Also, I doubt she pick randomly, we can see a lot of children she pick have unique nature. What IF (just IF) she pick a real orphan or an outcast, doesn't that mean in some way she's saving them? Like she really is just a virtuous person pretending to be evil.
so real
I mean, Dottore kinda took the entire stock of evil. Like, holy shit. XD
Man has absolutely committed war crimes with a smile on his face. And he is one unrepentant bastard.
Hoyo actually did a good job in making us hate him.
Who knows? Maybe we'll find more unlikeable villains in the future. I, myself, actually don't like Ei because while I understand her grief? She still harmed her own people by letting a puppet lead and triggering what is essentially a civil war. Not to mention not taking the time to educate her newly born son about things like humanity, morality, or even death...you know, BEFORE leaving him in the wilderness in the name of freedom. Like "So yeah, humans aren't like us. Their lives aren't eternal. It's called death and it's not something they can fully control". To me? She's honestly the worst archon. Her and the Tsaritsa.
Same here, I am not a villain guy but you know I like consistancy and variety within a cast and once genshin has to do anyone remotely bad and sell them they back down. Maybe is because of that chinise law of no "inmoral/gray" characters in games? Idk but they constantly break other rules so I don't think so, it is just pandering. I would have been good with rukka tho specially because it feels like the deshret twist was more for him to look better rather than rukka.
They have to neuter them to make them playable. If the Doctor becomes playable, we’ll more then likely being playing as the clone who runs a soup kitchen and feeds the homeless.
Curious to see where Capitano lands on that chart once the Natlan Archon quest approaches its end.
27:41 i believe she said it herself in her character quest, when she was talking to childe. I can’t remember the context tho
NAH no one could make me like you signora.
I am PRAYING on Signora's return. They can't just waste all her story and her resurrection flags.
im so serious i am so sure shes gonna come back theres no way theyre done with her yet
I honestly don't see the Knave ever going all out on the Traveler. She seems to have some morals and promised a favor in the future. Plus she is smart so I don't see her not having a plan for both saving her kids and the Traveler.
I just noticed there's an "Omega Build" on Dottore's name and I hate it
its refreshing to see a pure evil character like Dottore. i kinda hope that Hoyoverse keeps him evil and doesn't give him a redeption arc, yk? XD
hi dottore did not do direct experimentation on collei!! its even included in colleis wiki!! dottore overlooked someone who was doing mass experimentation on collei! the person who experimented on her name is barnabas. this shit was even in the manga and I'm tired of ppl spreading misinformation.
But he still allowed it. It's like saying Hideki Tōjō wasn't guilty of his crimes because hey, it was other Japanese generals and scientists that participated in Unit 731!
Barnabas is his subordinate, like directly his assistant, he is the one that collects subjects for him. If you really think he didnt had a hand on Collei you must be coping or missing info cuz is clearly stated that he indeed treated her, the method he used was what left her with trauma, and even if he didnt participate directly all the way through he still put her in that situation, so for practical purposes is irrelevant. One way or another he is responsible, and he has had many other subjects so even if Collei, by some miracle wasnt his fault then the other hundreds of people and children he did experiment on would fill the role regardless. This is equivalent to arguing whether Vladimir Putin directly killed a specific individual or left his subordinates to do it for him.
Personally, I hv a gut feeling that separating “directly experimenting on Collei” and “allowing subordinates to experiment on Collei” can impact how we understand Dottore’s motives, attitude, as a person (when we get more info abt him in the future)
If I rmb correctly, there is a statement (I frogot where it is from sorry) saying that Dottore only performs things himself when they are deemed important, in this case he might not hv rly cared abt Collei bc he never directly experimented on her, and left the work for his assistant to deal with so he can handle other things he thinks that are more important stuff
Not saying he is right, but I can kind of feel how we can interpret him in another way? Instead of a “heartless monster who enjoys experimenting on ppl”, we may see him as “a person who is so focused on achieving his goals that he does not rly care about evil doings happening around him, or perhaps, in order to achieve his goal he does not care what methods are used”
@@cornycorn_8899 Thats literally an evil monster that enjoys/doesnt care how his experiments impact people, just that his curiosity is satiated. It makes no difference whether he does it just because he felt like it or if he does it purely for the science. Its like saying that it matters to know if Unit 371 or Nazi scientists did their horrible experiments because they where curious or because they enjoyed to torture people, their reasons matter nothing, what matters is they did it.
Delegating torture to a subordinate or doing it yourself has 0 net difference because in the end you still participating in it and facilitating it on purpose. We know Dottore doesnt care for human life and does find pleasure in what he does, even mocking people for falling into his trap, like the case of Niwa.
crucabena: the least developed and a bit less evil than dottore
i agree with the rest
totally love the role shifts the harbingers have those fine lines
No one can ever make me hate you Dottore
It’s honestly sad that signora’s entire backstory is hidden behind artifact descriptions or domains, therefore being unknown to Aether or Lumine. It’s a good story, but not known or fleshed out.
Because if you know the lore… it makes that venti kick seem a whole lot more justified……