One underrated facet of glide boost is that you can effectively A-D strafe while mid-air. Echo and Pharah can’t strafe at full speed while airborne like she can.
You’re one of the only people I’ve seen mention this. I think it’s because people are bandwagoning the idea that Juno is just like other characters mashed together. When the character feels super unique. It took me some time to realize how to properly use Juno’s flight but as soon as I understood its intended purpose I did so much better. It does need descent tho.
Her glide through the air needs to work like Princess Peach and Smash Bros where if you let go of the jump button and hit it again, you'll begin gliding again That way it feels a little bit less clunky where you have to cancel the ability just to fall.
True, they could make it work like the timer on it pauses until you press it again or hit the ground, and the cooldown only resets when you hit the ground
I remember seeing a Reddit post where they said that she didn't have that dopamine and impact feeling that the "fun" supports get. Baptiste and Kiriko get the dopamine hit from headshots, Ana gets that little "tktktk" DOT sound, but Juno's abilities all feel kinda soft. Her weapon is like Ana without the dopamine feel. Especially her ult doesn't have much SFX, it doesn't have a lot of visual impact, just has a little "boop" sound instead of a powerful orbital ray.
Ana sound design is top tier. Hell so much of the sound design is top tier. I haven't played her but I agree it would be nice to give her a primary fire dopamine sound effect. Edit: for her ult they should use the roaring furnace or rushing torrent sound effect. We've all seen sky beams that tear through the ground as they move. Low but high intensity and maybe some pulsing sfx with fx. Crackling electricity is always fun too.
A very niche interaction is that I think she is maybe the single best pick for echo copy. Her glide lets you stay safe up in the air, and your missiles are almost a guaranteed ult if you hit a couple of people
Feel like Juno is a support to her core. Not crazy damage, not insane healing. Tons of utility and helps teammates with skills and ults. The movement is great and feels rewarding for skilled spacing.
True, and can defend herself without duelling. I hate getting Baptiste smurfs in gold with great aim abusing exo boots and all his sustain on an off angle. One of them killed me yesterday as Echo with a headshot burst before my stickies could even detonate, and it's just shocking for a support to do the damage role better (non-hitscan damage, at least).
@@skarloeythomas5172the way to defend yourself is your best utility. There is no way that people in comp are not going to punish that. She feels cosmetic to me and I love to play Ana but she just ain’t it.
Her healing may not be Moira or Baptiste level of healing but in the grand scheme of things it is still very strong. Personally she reminds me a lot of Kiriko being a support hero with very high highs but not a lot of lows.
Everyone complains that supports do too much damage, yet everyone wants Juno to headshot. Too many people in this community complain for the sake of complaining.
Not everyone believes either of those things. I think it would be good if she had a lesser headshot bonus and a small base damage nerf. I like the skill expression of headshots.
@@godminnette2 I was about to say this. Adding a crit-healing mechanic would make the character very interesting. I think the current number is 7dmg/hp per shot. Reducing that to 4.5 or 5 and a 1.5 critical multiplier would be pretty interesting
The point with the ult is so true, every game I had I tried to tell my team to hide behind cover for the ult to end but no one listened, the presence of the beam doesnt feel threatening neither does hearing "Locking Satellite vector", it looks more like Zen ult which might be why people dont take it seriously, Kiri is a great example on how to make a scary ult, the howling with her voiceline just sounds intimidating. Though its very in character for people to underestimate Juno due to how cute she is.
I genuinely think she's fine as she is. She's not overly broken in any direction, and trades off low damage for CONSISTENCY. Her damage is very consistent, and that brings a mercy-esque sort of minmax to her kit, where you can really look to maximize your damage output to charge fast Orbitals. She brings a similar playstyle as moira, though she trades the survivability and staying power of Orb/Fade for more range on her heals, and utility. Right now, I hope they don't change a thing. Let the community play with her a little more and see if there are any oddball things that stick out, right now she's not obnoxious to play against, extremely fun to play, and not busted. Probably the best hero release in OW2 up to this point.
Thank you, I feel exactly the same way and truly wish they change nothing about her kit because she does feel fair, balanced and fun. I'm terrified they'll nerf/buff her to appease the bad players who love to complain when they can't get instant value out of a character if they aren't OP because they don't want to learn how to play them properly.
Leave her as is for now. We need more time. A weekend wasn’t enough for the community to “properly” complain. What i am afraid of is the devs buff her for no reason.
Too late. Samito and Freedo have already made a 5 hour podcast highlighting every single change that needs to happen or Overwatch will die on Junos release. 6v6 reeeeeeeeeee
HOT TAKE: anyone above diamond doesn't need to worry because Juno can be a low skill hero that gets punished in high ranks AND THAT IS FINE. Top 10,000 players don't need to have equal skill on every hero
@@BeastMode-bw2ry it doesnt matter. one patch is all it takes lol. give me someone like karq any day of the week. to the point, no unecessary hyperbole or dramatic narratives, no attitude, easy
Previously I was in the camp of "hovering should reset the double jump" but after I've seen some players use walls to get to places double jump alone wouldn't reach, I think it should be left as is because that's where Juno's mobility skill expression is going to be the strongest For the torpedoes I just don't like how long it takes to charge them and how long the recovery time until I can shoot again is, all on top of the travel time. One or the other is fine but together it just leaves you with like 2 seconds of downtime where the payoff doesn't really feel worth it I feel like the fact the ult travels through walls is gonna be more huge than most people think
I think reloading her gun during the right click could be an interesting idea, given that it fully locks on and is not cut short to animation cancel and instantly reload. as long as the lock on time is around 1.5-2 seconds, or some time comparable to the time it takes to reload, I think it would make the ability fit better into the flow of her kit, right now it feels hard to know when to use it and feels better often times to just use your primary fire to keep your team alive/ deal damage.
I think the ult is the clunkiest part of the kit largely due it being deployed at her feet. I think either increasing the radius or allowing you to place it similar to flux or amp matrix might allow for more dynamic use of the ult. When i was playing her and off angling there were times when i wanted to give the ult to my tea. But in order to give the ult to my team i was forced to give up the angle and use cooldowns to return to my team.
Juno's kit already has a lot of skill expression within it. Aside from mechanical skill, the cooldowns have playmaking potential through great utility and combos. Like any high-skill-ceiling hero, it will take some time before people statt getting really good with her. There is nothing to change about her until the best of the community learns the macro and micro of playing her effectively. Just like we saw in the Pharah rework, people didn't quite understand how good she had become, and now she dominates the comp ladder. The devs just need to give her some time before buffing or nerding anything
The identity of the modern support role has already shifted pretty hard to just being DPS with mobility, sustain, and healing for their team. Supports need playmaking ability that isn’t just fragging out. (cough cough Illari cough cough)
Not every support has to play the same, they need to be different to create different compositions and attract different players to the role. I think it is completely fine that Illari plays like a DPS, Mei plays like a tank and Ball plays a bit like a DPS.
@@bigfudge2031I think the issue is that the amount of DPS-heavy supports has begun to outweigh the other types of supports. It’s okay for Mei to act like a pseudo-tank because the vast majority of the DPS roster are just straight forward DPS characters. Only her, Sombra, and Sym are funky. With Supports though, Bap, Illari, Kiriko, Zen, and Moira comprise nearly half of the support roster. Even worse is that these DPS-supports are a lot more viable than the standard supports. Lucio and sometimes Ana are the only meta supports, and even then those 2 are pretty borderline DPSy. Brig is situational, Mercy really struggles, and Lifeweaver is Lifeweaver.
@@mypantsarefilledwithbeans6508Ironically Lifeweaver isnt a dps-ish healer because his m1 and m2 generally feels clunky to use. Cuz Lifeweaver is a borderline busted tank buster. I've had Zen weavers nuke me with only weaver shooting me as a winston because I forgot he has one of the highest dps for a support. 6 per thorn, 2 thorns per shot, 11 shots per second. 132 damage per second not including reloads, dont remember if it can headshot cuz its been a while since I've played him.
Look at LW... he was the weakest release of all time and he only started to feel better when they increased his offensive potential. Even now he is still one of the least-played characters with a low win %. Whether you like it or not, you win games by being proactive, so characters that allow you to have carry potential are always going to be better and more fun for the players. nobody wants to sit around healbotting every single game, it is still an FPS game at the end of the day.
Complaining about Illari's DPS output is crazy. You're right, you'd rather complain about a rifle that doesn't even two tap than the 6th player that permanently sits on an angle and heals the rest of the team while being a pain in the ass to destroy. Istg these takes make me lose brain cells 🙄
I only played for a few hours but i am against headshots on her and with good positioning i think her movement will be enough to escape, right where sup should be imo. (Sup main here)
@@jonasdowner supports should be able to defend themselves but right now a lot of supports win against flanks and it removes the entire purpose of character like genji. Making sup dps who can heal is one of the biggest issues with ow2
@@jonasdowner Not the entire role, but this hero. There are plenty of the "i don't need to heal if the enemy is dead" heroes for supports at this rate, we can have some more of the gamesense oriented ones as well. I personally think Juno strikes a really good balance between the two. And if you really want to focus on just killing things, DPS probably would be better for you. There are heroes like Sombra and Mei if you still want some of the utility aspect of support. It's not like you can cite the queue times as the only reason you're playing support nowadays, DPS is the shortest Queue Time at most ranks
When Kiriko was released and was stronger than the other supports, the devs said that rather than nerfing Kiriko, they wanted to bring the other supports up to her power level. I think we are in the reverse situation here, where Juno is somewhat weaker than the other supports, but that should be remedied by bringing the power level of the other supports down to be more in line with Juno, rather than buffing Juno to be in line with the current support power level. I say this as a support main btw.
While I like this I feel like unless you fundamentally rework supports like kiri bap and Lucio they will always be meta in some way. So bringing the other supports in line without making them a “press x button to be good” then I think we should be fine.
@@brycenb2994arguably lucio being map and comp dependent meta is fine, just as widow is only on some maps. She's insanely hard to one-trick, even gold players go sombra ball now, and from plat onwards they're quite capable at finding the timing to attack you (took me 250 games to get to d3 so far, as a mid-masters hitscan)
I think 12 round burst makes it really easy to miss a high percentage of your shots. Perhaps reducing down to ~8 would make her gun feel better and be more consistent. But maybe i'm washed.
Since the LoS for the torpedoes can be a bit finnicky, I think it would be fair if they have a halved cooldown if you don't actually fire any torpedoes. I very often found myself accidentally releasing it without any target locks.
I personally think supports who have hitscan shouldnt headshot. Supports should dual through their superior kits like ana vs widow is the best example as widow wins in the sniper dual unless the ana lands a sleep dart or nade plus ana has a weird headhitbox, and this leads to their being defined differences in how they dual. Compare that to Cassidy/ashe and illari and illari just feels like a Cassidy ashe hybrid with a heal turret and because of this I feel illari is actually better than both Cassidy and ashe, and I fear if you did this to juno, not only would it probably break her and force nerfs elsewhere which would make her feel worse to play for the reasons people wanna play her, but it would dampen the experience as you'll probably be rewarded more for staying more still to land your shots opposed to it encouraging you to move around more and care less about actually lining up those harder shots. I personally like the idea for the torpedoes but personally I think shes perfect outside of the movement, and I agree that she shouldnt just have more vertical, so i wonder if we could add a CD reduction to her somehow, like imagine if you landed more torpedoes, it cools your jets off, this would both encourage you to use them more offensively for that slightly faster jet cd, but also would add a level of management to her kit while making the flight maybe feel less janky, kinds like how adding this to queens axe added so much depth to her kit and made her infinitely more enjoyable. But I actually think we should go the other way and remove bap and illaris headshot multipliers, in favour of them having more engaging kits because thats why people play support, they want super in depth kits that can be broken because these heros aren't intended to kill others unless stepped too, like if baps gonna have 3 health bars, he should have to use all 3 health bars to kill me, not just lands some headshots and win the dual against me because hes soldier with 3 health bars 😂
A thought I've had for Juno's ultimate is giving you the ability to reposition it with refires of the ultimate key. That with either a decent response delay, because orbital laser, or number touches would work in giving it better action rewarding responses.
I am shocked some people would think she is weak. I absolutely adore her it's the most fun I have had playing a hero since early Overwatch 1 as a longtime veteran, I do not know why she clicks with me so well. Honestly thought people would be asking to see her nerfed as I feel like I am having too much fun. I think we should wait on buffing her until we have more time to adapt to her more.
I consistently was doing 5-7k damage with her and 8k healing. She's gonna be so fucking strong if they buff her damage. People need to use her missiles for offense only.
She reminds me a lot of launch kiriko. Very high healing numbers (Seen up to 15K in multiple games) But her kit should be built around her utility or dueling potential not just healing value by just by putting out more numbers than other supports. Which was a serious issue with Kiri for a long time before they sufficiently nerfed her healing and made her headshots and cleansing debuffs for bonus healing and actual relevant part of her playstyle. Either way. I'm glad they have added an actually lethal anti air hero for pharmacy etc. I just with it wasn't in the support class, right next to hero like Bap who was imo the prior best at dealing with them.
The missiles actually heal for more. 134+ 84 if you shoot the target right after. That's huge for a burst heal for tanks plus a team heal if you play properly.
Right? Her damage isn't bursty, but its very consistent and she has a huge clip. She can output a lot of suppressing fire onto the right squishy targets, and is immensely helpful to clear an off-angle with a dps. I geniunely think she's fine as is. However, disagree with missiles, the Heal Seekers can be good in the right situation. Its not a "save your ass" button like a lot of other support cooldowns though, her gun is better for that. The Heal Seekers are more of a tempo play to do a big AoE heal if everyone is around half HP and is actively pushing in. If you wait to use missiles until right when someone is gonna die, they won't lock-on and travel there in time, even at close range. Shoot first, only missile if you are safe to or if your target is really out of your falloff range and you need to try to get them help.
@@secretlyaslug2325 I think you clearly have no grasp on reality, when you see a support and then play them like a DPS Shes not Anti=pharmacy , She was not designed for that and if your playing them like that your not playing A support right
Juno is balanced. But her issue is, shes balanced in a cast of OVERLY strong and insanely versatile supports. Juno highlights how absolutely broken the upper echelon supports are. When you are used to being blatantly OP, characters who are balanced and fair seem underpowered. I say it all the time, OW support players dont know how spoiled rich they are. You will NEVER EVER EVER find a game who has stronger supports/healers than OW.
@@KCrucismy brother, it's never stopped being true. It was true before OW2. And it's true to this day. You cannot find another game with supports stronger than the OW supports period.
“a cast of overly strong and insanely versatile supports” are you talking about kiriko, bap, lucio, and illiari? because the rest are nothing crazy and some of the rest are very underpowered like weaver and mercy.
@KCrucis I think you forgot that they never truly nerfed support healing they just increased hp pools and gave dps a passive. Supports are still at the same power that they were at in season 7 it's just that everything is even more broken. That's power creep for you.
Interesting analysis Spilo! A lot of what you said articulated exactly how I'm feeling with Juno. Overall a really fun character. Some possible changes imo could include a healing headshot multiplier. This would still encourage aiming for headshots but on teammates. Also, perhaps a notification when an enemy Juno has locked onto you with pulsar torpedoes (like a 'locked on' text on screen). There are clear audio cues when she's starting up the torpedoes, but you don't know if you're the one being targeted. Also, not sure if it's necessary but a 50% jump height increase with speed ring would be pretty nice. The mirror matches would be hilarious with everyone jumping in the air.
I thought torpedo would be a really cool dive ability because you lock onto a target and heal teammates, if a teammate Genji dives an enemy soldier Genji gets healed and the soldier loses 75 hp so it gives an advantage in a duel for your teammates, maybe the ability could be tuned so it is more effective at fulfilling this diving function?
I feel like either making the beam center on Juno or make it dynamically change speed depending on Juno's movement speed with the ability to activate the ult again to make it go to where you are aiming would be good
here are my changes to her, not sure if its good but just want to yap her gun: we can try reducing the base dmg and healing and give a headshot multiplier for both, could be cool u have to aim for ur allies health her double jump: i think the height can be a bit more or faster since it just feels to jump over small rails and nothing else. the hover is cool though her glide: i think they can do something like mercy, mercy main here. when u ga normally and look down, u cant fly down completely just a bit. they can do something similar with juno where when she looks up or down, she doesnt move vertically the whole way just a bit. and their is a max to her vertically like mercy downward ga her torpedoe: for me the ability doesnt feel very impactflu for a long cooldown. like i use the speed to engange and when my allies are like 65% hp i pop the ability then i do nothing but pocket. skill issue probably. i think it can be interesting where they add like a charge mecanic like venture's ultimate that she throws sombra virus to enemies and allies like she has 3 or 4 charge and has to aim to her allies or enemies each time she wants to release a charge and have a weaker version of her lock on on right click and can release while using her charges which consumes are stacks. or keep the current version and add like u said being able to use her smg, i think the charge for far targets should be a bit faster since i find myself waiting kinda long to get like 3 targets but one dies but if i use ealier then the one i didnt lock on dies like its suppose to be emergency heal but not fast enough. her speed ring: i def thinks it need to go further and the slef speed boost is cool but i think allies that are near the projectile before it transforms into the ring should get a lower amount of speed boost then get the full effect when they refresh at the ring her ult: its a very cool idea, they should add something like moira orb where it goes kinda fast but slows down when allies are near or stops moving when allies are at the center of the ring. kinda like ayaka from genshin where her blizzard stops when it touches the enemy. i think the color should be more pronounce since its like a light white yellow transparent ish so the enemy dont notice it that much, if they make it more red or pronounce then the enemy will notice more, also add like a dmg boost effect and healing or a special effect just faint so the enemy can see they are buff and its danger
i REALLY like her synergy with baptiste. her ultimate with the bap ultimate is legit so good. Plus she supports flankers a lot more than I expected. I actually found using her hyper ring as a disengage tool can be just as valuable as an engage tool, i personally would prefer it to be on maybe a 14 second cooldown opposed to a 16 second cooldown. Rockets are interesting, remind me of Valkyrie rockets from Apex. Her heal output is great. Love the gun, love the character design. A good return to “fun” form from overwatch as opposed to pure numbers characters like mauga.
More than anything else, I want louder/more audio feedback when healing allies right now. Juno feels good to me bc she isn't too weak or too strong currently, whether that remains the case on release is a different story. So for now audio/QoL change feels fair.
I think she’s largely fine as is. She has solid healing from her left click, and has an AoE heal for 75+60 HoT, plus a healing ult. She has solid poke/chip damage, but isn’t a duelist. She’s got a no-aim 75 dmg burst, so she can help secure kills, but not great at 1v1s. She’s evasive, can get out of range of any divers except maybe Sombra. Against poke she can quickly swap to a different angle or get to cover. Hyper ring is gonna be the ability that is a potential mess for highly coordinated play it it’s too good. It’s probably the aspect that could be changed/buffed etc. without breaking her for most levels of play. I would like to see “crouch to descend” for Glide Boost though. It feels like she’s at a healthy safe level of “‘not scrappy.” But above all, she’s fun. She’s like a unique combo of Mercy movement, Ana, Echo and Tracer. Plus she’s cute. I don’t think we will need to worry about her pick rate.
I think she is *THE* best character that has come out in Overwatch 2. And is certainly the best support of the 3 that have come out during these years. Her mobility and hitscan healing make her a lot of fun to play, you can chase her down if she wastes her cooldows BUT she can still be a menace if you let her, and to top it all off, she doesn’t have a BS get out of jail ability like life grip, suzu, lamp or resurrection, this is what supports should be like
I think JQ is a better character, being the only fun character in a miserable role is quite a feat. Mind you Juno is awesome def second best or third at least imo
For the glide boost, I was thinking if they would change it so that it allows Juno to ascend, but at a very slow rate, along with letting her descend freely, would make it feel slightly less awkward. It wouldn't affect the gameplay that much but perhaps it would help psychollgically with the clunky feeling.
I wouldn't mind if she could slowly ascend or descend during shift, more for manoeuvring around the map than being able to dodge with it like you can with her horizontal movement. Her speed ring should also have an early detonation option if you increase the range, rather than having to rely on hitting a surface, as being able to put it in the air is neat.
I will have to admit that I was a bit disappointed at first that she isn't a traditional flier like Echo, Pharah, and the rest. But that was just my first impressions. After these three days, I am SO happy she isn't another flier. If anything, she seems more like a glider and I'm okay with it. Overall, I do like her and would like to see more of her in my matches after release. However, I have some thoughts and tweaks for her kit. Feel free to comment: -Mediblaster - While a headshot multiplier would be nice, I don't think it's needed. However, I do think it needs a buff when it comes to its falloff range as playing her, and having others play as her, really felt inconsistent. Play it close and do more heal, but be more likely to be killed. Play it far, and the team will just explode from the low heals. -Pulsar Torpedoes - It doesn't seem to be that strong, and if it stays like that, that's fine by me. As such, I personally think that this ability is just fine and should not be buffed; maybe the projectile speed, but that's a hard maybe! However, I do have one quality of life change request: let her shoot blaster while using the ability. Does her ability really need to make her defenseless? -Glide Boost/Hyper Ring - Fine as is. If anything, convert her glide boost into a resource meter. That way it can also her to be a bit more dynamic in her movement, and even allow some vertical play without giving her vertical mobility. Though, roughly keep everything the same in terms of the numbers, like duration and cooldown as meter refill. -Orbital Ray: It does seem quite strong though teams will need to understand its a healing ray, not a traditional damaging ray. One QOL change would probably make the beam a bit more transparent for your team. Also, "Welcome to Orbit" seems like a weird voice line for the ultimate.
junos ult travels from juno to her crosshair over the course of its duration maybe? like if she aims down, it stands still, but if she aims 20m away, it goes 20m and reaches the point at the end
I just wish her ult had a bit more range for its placement, I feel like it basically just drops right in front of you, which feels kinda weird, a bit more range with the placement would be nice, and then a move speed increase for it might not be necessary
I think one good use of the torpedoes in a 1v1 is damage stacking when you get the jump on someone, if a torpedo lands you can burst down 250 HP heroes with 2 clips and a melee. Even if you wait until after the torpedo lands to commit you can still boost in to confirm the kill in close range on good matchups, the torpedoes definitely feel a bit awkward but I’m not sure allowing Juno to shoot while using them is the right move.
I fell in love with her identity and playstyle. Sometimes feels clunky but overall she is a good hero. Hope the dev team adjusts numbers and makes the right changes for a good experience in S12!
Torpedos are worth using 1v1... As the engage tool. If you drop in on a target, you can release the torpedo, especially at slightly longer range, and then shoot at it arrrives so the first thing an unaware player gets is 150+ damage.
T500 support player: Juno has high survivability from her unmatched mobility. Juno's falloff on her gun feels very unimpactful on the differing falloff ranges. After the 1st falloff, it feels less consistent than a baptiste spamming heals/dmg. The m2 is great, and can burst down a tank if the body block juno in front of juno. Juno m1 feels great, but the 3rd level of falloff combined with the inconsistency of a burst gun is not even worth shooting. A headshot mutipler higher than 1.25 would cause juno to blow up every single hero in the game. Juno could possibly use help against armour as it takes 6 full bursts to kill a bastion in scout form. The mobility is very unique, and creating off angles. It would be nice to have flight control downward, though. I love her movement cooldowns, no complaints. Orbital strike is quite possibly one of the strongest support ults in the game. Seems like a moving bap window that goes through walls AND heals. Juno will be incredible when paired with another flex support due to all the mobility she offers to her team.
Personally, I'd like if Pulsar Torpedoes had an option for the player to place a target on specific characters. I believe that would give more dynamic to their use since you now control who it hits, and you can choose how most effectively to spread out the ability. Damage 3 enemies and heal one teammate? Heal 3 teammates and damage one enemy? I feel like that would make it more fun to use
She can wall climb wall corners which is cool. Crosshair halfway off center from the corner and glide into the wall and forward up. Then you can do the air jump at the end to make high grounds you couldn't with a regular jump + air jump.
7:30 So I actually found that the projectile itself gives a speed boost, and I think the range is within a couple meters of you. If you shoot it through a teammate but it pops on the other side of them, they still get a speed boost before touching the ring, I've tested it multiple times, it also seems to hit behind you since I've given speed boost to teammates right behind me as well.
One thing I noticed about torpedoes is that it just takes a bit too long to lock on, the leftclick downtime is just too harsh. I'd prefer a faster lock-on over being able to shoot while using the ability
Juno is like Zen, but can't outduel the enemy with skillshots like him and the evasive options are not great on most maps (imagine flashpoint). I like her abilities, even the shift, but I wish she had headshots and some more aggressive stuff. Lucio is super scary vs most heroes in duels and he can escape and heal A LOT while also providing speed infinitely on demand with no cd and ultimate is OP. So I agree with Spilo on pretty much everything and I disagree with most other content creators! Torpedos are so useless for damage - it's probably enough to "clean up" and chase targets with torpedos and pew pew pew, but in 99% of cases I just used torpedos for my team because the healing is really juicy
Her healing is good and her damage is good. What I want: a jump or double jump reset when using glide boosters and the ability to crouch while using glide boosters.
Too unusual too be fully judged now. Needs a bit more time and space. There are some tweaks we could use from her survivability concept into other characters - "big support's patch". Herself, Juno is too... counterintuitive? She feels like she needs to be a dive character, yet her movement is more of a Soldier's type (rotational), so there is no real way out for it to be true. You would think then that she is good for brawl, but there are no actual abilities for your team to get utility from (no Ana nades or Bap field) and speed boost is very controversial for brawl structures on terms of value. So, in a sense, she is a good hero and yet there is kinda no actual place for her. Which means her kit needs to be tweaked a bit overall. Mostly agree with what I have heard from you, Spilo. I think in a month we all will have a new great character to play.
Either increase her mobility or increase her damage. Even though her mobility is pretty good, it's not enough for her to outmaneuver enemies consistently.
i think maybe a extra mini jump after using the glide, some edges feels awkward to slow "climb up" or something like that, maybe do the lock have more synergy with the kit like if u use the lock u go up a bit or do a little dash in the opposite u are facing when the rockets go
I think the torpedoes not changing her personal breaking point is fine. For one, she's a support. For two, she certainly changes the breaking points for other characters like DPS. I also think her shift is fine if you use it as a defensive ability. Like trying to fighta Lucio 1 v 1 isn't challenging enough when he's not riding on walls, and I think the same applies to Juno, make her a little bit faster maybe, but I think she's fine playing back to mid line behind her team. Not only does that make her a harder target, but it also fixes the problem with speed ring. Using her speed ring gives her a boost to let her take an off angle without traveling the same route as her team, it gives her room to be aggressive without it being her whole playstyle. Which actually does make me in favor of letting her shoot while locking on
I think her flight ability should be her main identity. Right now it's mostly used to reposition, but if it had better movement there could be the choice to alternatively use it for defense. Right now she's really easy to kill because even with that ability she can be a sitting duck to any dive character without the damage of Zen or the abilities of Ana
I think another use of the torpedoes, which is very niche, if you manage to sneak up behind somebody you can torpedoe them and shoot while the torpedoe travels for a quicker unexpected burst of damage. Thats another use in a 1v1, though if you have the jump on somebody like that youve probably already won that duel anyways
Honestly, I think glide boost should be a resource meter instead of a cooldown (and have it be around 8-10 seconds max, because it isn't really a good escape option, it's more of a decent positioning tool). I also think the ring should be 30m max and you can press the ability key again to stop it mid flight of it needs to be shorter. Other than that, I think she is better than most DLC releases.
My biggest complaint about the character is that I think because there is no headshot, so you aren’t occasionally getting that rewarding headshot sound indicator that they need to come up with a new sound indicator to indicate more noticeably when you are dealing damage somethings similar to Anna’s hissing or sizzling sound The represent the damage and bleed effect. For the record, I don’t think Juneau needs a bleed affect nor do I think it should be the same sound effect just some kind of sound effect to better indicate when you’re hitting damage.
We were running dive with Juno in scrims the other day and her lock on mechanic is really good with a dive, just prep it as winston/genji go in and let it rip on thier support (plus bonus healing for your lads). With genji and winstons combo it is an insta-gib. Have fun getting targeted every team fight though :(
The not going up/free flight is fine, but I would love to be able to crouch to descend during the boost. Having to cancel the ability early to get under an arch or through a door because the ground happens to dip there is quite annoying.
My main and only complaint with this character is how little control you have over the ultimate. It wasnt uncommon where i’d ult and my team would not use it effectively, (whether this is a qp thing or a lack of understanding on what it does who knows) locking me from pushing with it and making it give near no value. Making it function like harbors ultimate from valorant, where you can control how fast/slow it moves forward based on your movement input would be great.
I’d still like for her to either get 1.5x crits or for her to lose damage falloff like Ana, but I do really like your suggestion about letting her use her primary while targeting her missiles. Her damage numbers are usually decent, but it feels a lot like spam damage similar to Moira and I think letting her crit while maybe reducing her mag size in exchange will help make her damage potentially more impactful.
I thought her damage was a bit off when I first played her but honestly now I think it's fine. It's good enough without being crazy. I was able to kill things fairly consistently. She's not LW. Buffing her damage with the mobility she has could very easily make her the most broken thing in the game.
i think headshots will just be fun and add more skill ceiling, even if the base damage is reduced and the HS multiplier is very low. The little DING DING DING with her gun will be so fun to hear
Only two changes i think she needs is an ult buff (idk what it would be) and a deploy range buff to the ring. Otherwise, i think she has a lot of potential and im excited to see space ranger comps!
I kinda wish you could aim her rockets similar to how lifeweaver can with petals. He’s able to change the trajectory and I think that would be beneficial for her and give a tiny bit more skill expression I’m not sure how I feel about her being able to crit. If she can it should probably be a small multiplier. I don’t like scaling her damage back to accommodate crits because I feel like her damage is already in a decent spot vs 250hp heroes
TikTok Juno playstyle doing a 321 count down on your right click is actually so op . And when you get pressured you just use the 2 movement abilities you have to run into the enemies spawn 😂
ML7 made the hero look pretty godly imo. Granted it's ml but he showed so much creativity in his positioning/ roll outs and terrain manipulation. Slippery hero.
I think the torpedoes would be better if you had the chance to lock onto the same target multiple times with a cap on how many missiles can be fired, maybe even specific to friend vs enemy, so that you can't just full charge it on your allies every time but it still has the potential for more impact against enemies.
While it "doesn't affect the breakpoint" in theory, it is improbable that someone will hit enough shots on a non-tank to 3burst them, so in realistic scenarios, 4 bursts tend to be needed for kills when shooting well vs a skilled at movement enemy. Not that it matters anyway because so long as you have ammo, as you say, you might as well shoot instead. Apologies for the akshually post. *adjusts glasses*. Good thoughts from you in general.
So before even queueing up to try her, I spent about 3 hours in customs trying to fully understand her movement and trying to find movement techs. I managed to figure out how to consistently maximise height and movement speed, and found some interesting techs that allow for incredibly unpredictable movement. Like, almost Tracer level unpredictable. After my first play session I genuinely felt like she was incredibly strong. Damage per 10 is roughly that of Baptiste, Healing per 10 is about halfway between Lucio and Kiri (Assuming aggro playstyle not healbot kiri or floorcio). Deaths per 10 for me were about 3.2 which is wild. Dying is very very hard IF you take the time to figure out the movement properly. I unironically think that people saying she's weak don't realise how good the movement can be. I really like that she feels strong ONLY if you have good movement. If they buff her, I just hope that they don't lower the skill floor. I feel the support role really lacks characters with high skill floors and ceilings. Many supports have high skill ceilings but the skill floors are generally quite low IMO. I loved playing her so much.
spilo i love your take but what i would think is she needs headshots and ability to lock and shoot but they could reduce the number of shots per burst to make her feel less like a damsel in distress whenever a tracer shows up but low fire rate may lift skill sealing so that it feels like you have to hit your shot like how kiri is but over all i agree with all that you said great take tbh
I think without verticality to her glide, she’s way too squishy. She’s an easy target for hitscans because of how often she’s airborn and she’s extremely vulnerable to dive because she has no sustain and her only escape is speed. If her kit didn’t force her to play pretty close range it would be a lesser issue, and would also help the consistency of her torpedoes.
I haven’t played her and don’t actually know how her controls feel, but a toggle for low gravity by default and then holding crouch in the air to fall fast seems like it would be nice for QoL
I have been said this, when everybody was playing the new hero. My teams were just running hard dive and stomping on her back. She honestly needs some help or at least let her movement ability active a regen
What really needs to be fixed is being unable to drop until glide is over. I don't have a problem with it in fights. What annoys me is that many spawn rooms have a downward ramp before exiting. I want to boost out of the spawn room to get back to my teammates quickly. Yet if I boost out of one of these rooms, I get stuck at the height I'm at before I go down the ramp and exit the door. This causes me to not be able to exit the door until glide is over because she's stuck at a height that's higher than the top of the door. It's really clunky and annoying.
i think juno's only real issue is her burst fire, its a 12 round burst so its REALLY apparent when your missing shots, missing two shots turns 84 damage to 70. and considering that and her 10 second missle is all shes got, it can sometimes feel really underwhelming to hit shots, i think rather then giving her critical hits, a mechanic proven to push ana over the edge, her burst should be lowered down to 10 shots, and her ammo and damage altered to accommodate. when im hitting shots she feels great, a super good support, when im not, she feels less great, but still fun to play. she doesn't need skill expression in her shots, you gotta land 12 consecutive shots to hit a moving target, thats more then enough skill expression, she needs LESS skill expression so each missed shot is less apparent, and THATS why she feels underwhelming sometimes. when a tracer is zipping around you, those five shots you missed become REALLY noticeable in her damage. i think altering ANY other part of her kit would ruin her, she feels like shes currently teetering a line between too op and too weak, and tilting any mechanic too far left or right ruins any sort of fun she might have. i think people are misunderstanding her "lack of skill expression" problem is actually an "overabundance of skill expression" problem. kinda like if genji had 10 shuriken instead of 3. imagine trying to kill a target if his damage was spread out to 10 shots. thats too much skill expression.
I think you nailed it with the headshot take. I really wouldn't mind her not having headshots. The takes about speed ring and torpedoes are also okey, but i really think she needs that jump reset on dash. For once it makes the dash itself more unique and the second thing is, the ledge climb is really not consistent enough. Most of the time i am not sure if the wall is crooked enough for me to climb on it and if I am close enough to the egde to get to highground. It makes it too complicated to use it this way during team fights, because most of the time its 50 50 if you are going to get away or get blocked.
I honestly kind of agree with the idea that the character doesn’t need to do head shots however, I feel like maybe the damage in general should be a little bit higher to compensate for that so much. For the record I do also agree that supports well they should be able to defend themselves shouldn’t necessarily be better than damage characters at dealing damage.
Her damage is fine and she already has plenty of mobility, she doesn't need to be able to defend herself. Mercy can't defend herself properly, but she has strong mobility to account for that.
It may be a hot take, but I actually think she is already very strong and people just haven't figured her out yet and at some point down the line her utility will get nerfed. Her ult is literally just a better Valk because it does more damage boost and healing simultaneously and Juno can also shoot during it.
@@Megggazap The fact that Valk lasts for 15 seconds and still isn't a fight-winning ult should tell you enough. The only thing it's consistent at is being underwhelming, it's ironically more useful at keeping mercy alive more than anyone else.
I'd make ult folowing teammates - activate like ana does (but even herself can be a target), a bit bigger range and it puts itself in the middle of the target and tracks it's movement. It would be like u can put rally but on your rein etc
I dont think that she should have free flight, however i do think that the fluidity of her glide boost could be looked at. I think that the glide boost should give her something more similar to lucio's movement physics for the duration, so that she could slide around and use momentum in the air. Almost like ice physics. That's what i thought the ability would feel like from its name and from the trailer, and i think it would be super fun. That being said i still think her kit is super fun as is and both options for movement have advantages and disadvantages, such as the fact that as is she can quickly strafe
I wish you had your double jump returned whenever you were grounded with glide boost, so you could get your double jump after sliding up a ledge even if you spent double jump to get to that ledge.
As someone who played her non-stop during the weekend and plan on maining her on release. She DOES NOT need headshot damage. With her glide she would have easy headshots, even with a reduced multiplier, it’s going to be too strong.
I really think that she should have a headshot mod. I just want that extra bit of skill expression, and would be fine if they reduced her overall damage to compensate. I am a little disappointed in her shift. I love the skill expression of flight abilities, but glide boost just feels like a "strafe plus" to me. It just lacks the creativity and skill expression that I wanted, but maybe I'm just not used to it yet. I like the idea of her ult following her around a lot actually, but I also kinda like the way it works now. If it followed her, it would be a fun nod to Lucio lol.
The common thread here is that the lack of need for target differentiation comes at the cost of no headshots. Like Anna, she gets value no matter who she shoots with her primary. Feels fair to me. Also, Kiri's headshots are pretty broken. I think her boots last a little too long. CD is good, but it feels like she stays up for ever. When paired with her double jump not having a cool down, her air time is crazy. If not shorter boot time, maybe a Hanzo/Liveweaver-esc cool down on her double jump, because it is more efficacious than either, and though weaker than exo, has no charge time. Also I don't think support characters should be tuned for dueling. The word support means what is means. I think her lock ability it well tuned.
I really want to see them give her slightly more verticality.. it doesnt feel good ingame to constantly be double jumping at many common high grounds and visually not feeling like you can make it, despite alot of them being reachable because you can "glide" over them with shift.. it still doesn't look like you will make it and feels awkward. I'd also like to see her have a slightly reduced headshot multiplier.. she can be difficult to aim on, especially moving at high speeds and it does feel good to be rewarded for hitting those shots.. She also struggles to 1v1 many of the hero cast, and not just DPS.. alot of the other support heroes can simply win because they have self heals and her damage isnt enough to keep up.. a small headshot multiplier could reward the aim matchup vs these heroes to. Otherwise, I'd like to have some audio feedback when connecting her shots on an ally like Ana has when she heals. Otherwise, she is one of the most fun heroes I've played and likely my new main.
The ult voicelines for juno and venture have been so underwhelming that i cant tell if it's mine ulting, or the enemy. Historically, Enemy ults sound very threatening and epic.
I'm actually sad that I can't play Juno anymore, it made me realise that the hero is very fun to play,. Great release! Interesting points Spilo, concerning headshot, I would like that they add it, however, weirdly I'm not annoyed that Ana doesn't have it, why? Is Juno missing something else that make people think she needs headshot?
Ana has a way to prevent heals, so her DOT can be more meaningful, the sound of her hitmarker is way more satisfying, ana only has to land the single bullet to deal the 75 dmg (so she can jiggle peek etc in between shots to keep herself safer while still dealing full damage)
Ana is a way better 1v1er in general because of the nade burst dmg/heal + she doesn't have to peek full time because of the big single bullet. For Juno to deal 80dmg to tracer, she has to expose herself to tracer the entire time, and tracer has better ttk. Juno cannot win a 1v1 against most ranged heroes. The mobility makes you want to take cheeky angles but you should never ever accept true 1v1s. She's very much a sidekick that tags along with an ally on angles, OR just sit behind the main fight and spam. She has to run away like LW or mercy even though she's an aim-based support. Bap, Illari, Ana can all hold their own in 1v1s but Juno will never win against a similarly skilled opponent.
For Speed Ring, I understand that they want to ring to be able to deploy mid-air, so the projectile needs to go off at some distance. But at the same time, since the projectile gives the speed, and the ring resets the speeds duration, then simply increasing the ring's distance would increase the duration for some targets. I think a solution might be to remove the speed boost coming from the projectile, and add it to an initial burst around Juno herself. Secondly, the projectile will activate either when it hits a surface, when you click the ability button again, or when it flys 30 meters. So Juno, and those within, lets say 5 meters, will get a speed boost upon cast, and those who pass through the ring when it appears also get the boost.
My biggest issue with her in my games so far is exactly the ult's feedback. When you're playing with Juno the ult does not feel impactful at all, you barely notice when she's used it to the point that sometimes I go a whole game without noticing any Juno ults, and part of that is also the fact that there's literally nothing to tell you when the ult is effecting you or not. As Juno herself the ult feels really weak and it felt like your team wasn't using it or even acknowledging it. And then worst of all when playing against her it feels about as impactful as an immo field. I would constantly find myself having to consciously remind myself that she has ulted and I need to be careful. The sound effects and the voiceline leave a lot to be desired
I don't think she should get to double jump after glide but I think glide should give her a jump charge, so she could double jump hit glide and then get to use her moon boots extra charge for a third jump. Gives you a little more verticality but at the cost of using the glide strictly to get the extra height. Really like the other ideas though. I just want headshots cause headshot heal would be awesome and it fits theme of it being a gun, Ana makes sense not to because it's a dart. Anyway if they changed nothing I'd still be happy
I like her. I have not played her against others but have played against her. She has good weapons and it also heals. She has no recoil on her weapon, and lots of ammunition.
i think they should definitely add the “tkk tkk” sound effect that you get when a damage boosted ally hits a shot on an enemy target for mercy to juno’s ultimate. it would feel a lot better but as for actual balance, i would like to see them play with a larger radius of her ultimate.
One underrated facet of glide boost is that you can effectively A-D strafe while mid-air. Echo and Pharah can’t strafe at full speed while airborne like she can.
the ad strafe is also at a 50% speed boost
I’m fine with it since she has no vertical mobility during the glide
@@thomashigginsmusic fr shes just walking in the air it feels pretty good, dont know why people call it clunky
Using the strafe of glide to land a big 5-6 person missile is really fun
You’re one of the only people
I’ve seen mention this. I think it’s because people are bandwagoning the idea that Juno is just like other characters mashed together. When the character feels super unique. It took me some time to realize how to properly use Juno’s flight but as soon as I understood its intended purpose I did so much better. It does need descent tho.
Her glide through the air needs to work like Princess Peach and Smash Bros where if you let go of the jump button and hit it again, you'll begin gliding again That way it feels a little bit less clunky where you have to cancel the ability just to fall.
Great idea
True, they could make it work like the timer on it pauses until you press it again or hit the ground, and the cooldown only resets when you hit the ground
I remember seeing a Reddit post where they said that she didn't have that dopamine and impact feeling that the "fun" supports get. Baptiste and Kiriko get the dopamine hit from headshots, Ana gets that little "tktktk" DOT sound, but Juno's abilities all feel kinda soft. Her weapon is like Ana without the dopamine feel. Especially her ult doesn't have much SFX, it doesn't have a lot of visual impact, just has a little "boop" sound instead of a powerful orbital ray.
Ana sound design is top tier. Hell so much of the sound design is top tier.
I haven't played her but I agree it would be nice to give her a primary fire dopamine sound effect.
Edit: for her ult they should use the roaring furnace or rushing torrent sound effect. We've all seen sky beams that tear through the ground as they move. Low but high intensity and maybe some pulsing sfx with fx. Crackling electricity is always fun too.
It sounds like you havent hit a 6+ target torpedo lol
Lucios get the sweet sweet hit of a bong from boop burst melee burst combo on Hitscans, and booping/beating ults into abandon
Have to disagree, her sounds really hits it for me. The double jump, space blaster, and when you get a massive torpedo volley off especially.
@@mattetis if the satisfying part of a hero is that rare, maybe something should be looked at
A very niche interaction is that I think she is maybe the single best pick for echo copy. Her glide lets you stay safe up in the air, and your missiles are almost a guaranteed ult if you hit a couple of people
Ult felt pretty hard to get, but might just have been me
@@D-Doc-Cheal more
Feel like Juno is a support to her core. Not crazy damage, not insane healing. Tons of utility and helps teammates with skills and ults. The movement is great and feels rewarding for skilled spacing.
True, and can defend herself without duelling. I hate getting Baptiste smurfs in gold with great aim abusing exo boots and all his sustain on an off angle. One of them killed me yesterday as Echo with a headshot burst before my stickies could even detonate, and it's just shocking for a support to do the damage role better (non-hitscan damage, at least).
@@skarloeythomas5172the way to defend yourself is your best utility. There is no way that people in comp are not going to punish that. She feels cosmetic to me and I love to play Ana but she just ain’t it.
Shes's what mercy could be. looking forward to character reworks for her in the future upon seeing this character
@@maximilian1588 yes, decent utility with no direct impact on the fight. It felt cosmetic to me, but maybe balance changes will make her enjoyable.
Her healing may not be Moira or Baptiste level of healing but in the grand scheme of things it is still very strong. Personally she reminds me a lot of Kiriko being a support hero with very high highs but not a lot of lows.
Everyone complains that supports do too much damage, yet everyone wants Juno to headshot. Too many people in this community complain for the sake of complaining.
"I believe everyone on this website is a stupid walking contradiction"
fax. especially those role carried main supports
Not everyone believes either of those things. I think it would be good if she had a lesser headshot bonus and a small base damage nerf. I like the skill expression of headshots.
giving her headshot is not for damage what are you on 💀💀
@@godminnette2 I was about to say this. Adding a crit-healing mechanic would make the character very interesting. I think the current number is 7dmg/hp per shot. Reducing that to 4.5 or 5 and a 1.5 critical multiplier would be pretty interesting
The point with the ult is so true, every game I had I tried to tell my team to hide behind cover for the ult to end but no one listened, the presence of the beam doesnt feel threatening neither does hearing "Locking Satellite vector", it looks more like Zen ult which might be why people dont take it seriously, Kiri is a great example on how to make a scary ult, the howling with her voiceline just sounds intimidating. Though its very in character for people to underestimate Juno due to how cute she is.
I genuinely think she's fine as she is. She's not overly broken in any direction, and trades off low damage for CONSISTENCY. Her damage is very consistent, and that brings a mercy-esque sort of minmax to her kit, where you can really look to maximize your damage output to charge fast Orbitals.
She brings a similar playstyle as moira, though she trades the survivability and staying power of Orb/Fade for more range on her heals, and utility.
Right now, I hope they don't change a thing. Let the community play with her a little more and see if there are any oddball things that stick out, right now she's not obnoxious to play against, extremely fun to play, and not busted. Probably the best hero release in OW2 up to this point.
Thank you, I feel exactly the same way and truly wish they change nothing about her kit because she does feel fair, balanced and fun. I'm terrified they'll nerf/buff her to appease the bad players who love to complain when they can't get instant value out of a character if they aren't OP because they don't want to learn how to play them properly.
Leave her as is for now. We need more time. A weekend wasn’t enough for the community to “properly” complain. What i am afraid of is the devs buff her for no reason.
Too late. Samito and Freedo have already made a 5 hour podcast highlighting every single change that needs to happen or Overwatch will die on Junos release. 6v6 reeeeeeeeeee
@@markd7933God, I wish the devs would ignore them. Samito in particular is extremely reactionary and loved to blow up about any little thing.
@markd7933 Lol Sam literally said that he thinks Juno is one of best designed supports since Ana was released.
HOT TAKE: anyone above diamond doesn't need to worry because Juno can be a low skill hero that gets punished in high ranks AND THAT IS FINE. Top 10,000 players don't need to have equal skill on every hero
@@BeastMode-bw2ry it doesnt matter. one patch is all it takes lol. give me someone like karq any day of the week. to the point, no unecessary hyperbole or dramatic narratives, no attitude, easy
Previously I was in the camp of "hovering should reset the double jump" but after I've seen some players use walls to get to places double jump alone wouldn't reach, I think it should be left as is because that's where Juno's mobility skill expression is going to be the strongest
For the torpedoes I just don't like how long it takes to charge them and how long the recovery time until I can shoot again is, all on top of the travel time. One or the other is fine but together it just leaves you with like 2 seconds of downtime where the payoff doesn't really feel worth it
I feel like the fact the ult travels through walls is gonna be more huge than most people think
I think reloading her gun during the right click could be an interesting idea, given that it fully locks on and is not cut short to animation cancel and instantly reload. as long as the lock on time is around 1.5-2 seconds, or some time comparable to the time it takes to reload, I think it would make the ability fit better into the flow of her kit, right now it feels hard to know when to use it and feels better often times to just use your primary fire to keep your team alive/ deal damage.
I think the ult is the clunkiest part of the kit largely due it being deployed at her feet. I think either increasing the radius or allowing you to place it similar to flux or amp matrix might allow for more dynamic use of the ult. When i was playing her and off angling there were times when i wanted to give the ult to my tea. But in order to give the ult to my team i was forced to give up the angle and use cooldowns to return to my team.
Juno's kit already has a lot of skill expression within it. Aside from mechanical skill, the cooldowns have playmaking potential through great utility and combos. Like any high-skill-ceiling hero, it will take some time before people statt getting really good with her. There is nothing to change about her until the best of the community learns the macro and micro of playing her effectively.
Just like we saw in the Pharah rework, people didn't quite understand how good she had become, and now she dominates the comp ladder. The devs just need to give her some time before buffing or nerding anything
The identity of the modern support role has already shifted pretty hard to just being DPS with mobility, sustain, and healing for their team. Supports need playmaking ability that isn’t just fragging out. (cough cough Illari cough cough)
Not every support has to play the same, they need to be different to create different compositions and attract different players to the role. I think it is completely fine that Illari plays like a DPS, Mei plays like a tank and Ball plays a bit like a DPS.
@@bigfudge2031I think the issue is that the amount of DPS-heavy supports has begun to outweigh the other types of supports.
It’s okay for Mei to act like a pseudo-tank because the vast majority of the DPS roster are just straight forward DPS characters. Only her, Sombra, and Sym are funky.
With Supports though, Bap, Illari, Kiriko, Zen, and Moira comprise nearly half of the support roster. Even worse is that these DPS-supports are a lot more viable than the standard supports. Lucio and sometimes Ana are the only meta supports, and even then those 2 are pretty borderline DPSy. Brig is situational, Mercy really struggles, and Lifeweaver is Lifeweaver.
@@mypantsarefilledwithbeans6508Ironically Lifeweaver isnt a dps-ish healer because his m1 and m2 generally feels clunky to use. Cuz Lifeweaver is a borderline busted tank buster. I've had Zen weavers nuke me with only weaver shooting me as a winston because I forgot he has one of the highest dps for a support. 6 per thorn, 2 thorns per shot, 11 shots per second. 132 damage per second not including reloads, dont remember if it can headshot cuz its been a while since I've played him.
Look at LW... he was the weakest release of all time and he only started to feel better when they increased his offensive potential. Even now he is still one of the least-played characters with a low win %.
Whether you like it or not, you win games by being proactive, so characters that allow you to have carry potential are always going to be better and more fun for the players. nobody wants to sit around healbotting every single game, it is still an FPS game at the end of the day.
Complaining about Illari's DPS output is crazy. You're right, you'd rather complain about a rifle that doesn't even two tap than the 6th player that permanently sits on an angle and heals the rest of the team while being a pain in the ass to destroy. Istg these takes make me lose brain cells 🙄
I only played for a few hours but i am against headshots on her and with good positioning i think her movement will be enough to escape, right where sup should be imo. (Sup main here)
I agree. People are too quick to suggest changes before the dust has settled. Let people play her for a month or so and see where she ends up.
support main here as well.
if they move to role to be heal/escape i'll just play dps and never look at support again
@@jonasdowner supports should be able to defend themselves but right now a lot of supports win against flanks and it removes the entire purpose of character like genji. Making sup dps who can heal is one of the biggest issues with ow2
I love her as she is, honestly.
@@jonasdowner Not the entire role, but this hero. There are plenty of the "i don't need to heal if the enemy is dead" heroes for supports at this rate, we can have some more of the gamesense oriented ones as well. I personally think Juno strikes a really good balance between the two.
And if you really want to focus on just killing things, DPS probably would be better for you. There are heroes like Sombra and Mei if you still want some of the utility aspect of support. It's not like you can cite the queue times as the only reason you're playing support nowadays, DPS is the shortest Queue Time at most ranks
When Kiriko was released and was stronger than the other supports, the devs said that rather than nerfing Kiriko, they wanted to bring the other supports up to her power level. I think we are in the reverse situation here, where Juno is somewhat weaker than the other supports, but that should be remedied by bringing the power level of the other supports down to be more in line with Juno, rather than buffing Juno to be in line with the current support power level. I say this as a support main btw.
? did you forget they giga buffed tank nerfing support now is crazy
@@10klewise They should nerf tanks as well.
Let’s just nerf Genji instead and call it a day.
While I like this I feel like unless you fundamentally rework supports like kiri bap and Lucio they will always be meta in some way. So bringing the other supports in line without making them a “press x button to be good” then I think we should be fine.
@@brycenb2994arguably lucio being map and comp dependent meta is fine, just as widow is only on some maps. She's insanely hard to one-trick, even gold players go sombra ball now, and from plat onwards they're quite capable at finding the timing to attack you (took me 250 games to get to d3 so far, as a mid-masters hitscan)
I think 12 round burst makes it really easy to miss a high percentage of your shots. Perhaps reducing down to ~8 would make her gun feel better and be more consistent. But maybe i'm washed.
I play on console, there is no way I can track all 12 shots on a moving target.
Thank you Spilo for being one of the most level headed and genuine content creators for this game
Since the LoS for the torpedoes can be a bit finnicky, I think it would be fair if they have a halved cooldown if you don't actually fire any torpedoes. I very often found myself accidentally releasing it without any target locks.
it would go to 5 seconds if you right click to cancel instead of letting it expire with no targets
I personally think supports who have hitscan shouldnt headshot.
Supports should dual through their superior kits like ana vs widow is the best example as widow wins in the sniper dual unless the ana lands a sleep dart or nade plus ana has a weird headhitbox, and this leads to their being defined differences in how they dual.
Compare that to Cassidy/ashe and illari and illari just feels like a Cassidy ashe hybrid with a heal turret and because of this I feel illari is actually better than both Cassidy and ashe, and I fear if you did this to juno, not only would it probably break her and force nerfs elsewhere which would make her feel worse to play for the reasons people wanna play her, but it would dampen the experience as you'll probably be rewarded more for staying more still to land your shots opposed to it encouraging you to move around more and care less about actually lining up those harder shots.
I personally like the idea for the torpedoes but personally I think shes perfect outside of the movement, and I agree that she shouldnt just have more vertical, so i wonder if we could add a CD reduction to her somehow, like imagine if you landed more torpedoes, it cools your jets off, this would both encourage you to use them more offensively for that slightly faster jet cd, but also would add a level of management to her kit while making the flight maybe feel less janky, kinds like how adding this to queens axe added so much depth to her kit and made her infinitely more enjoyable.
But I actually think we should go the other way and remove bap and illaris headshot multipliers, in favour of them having more engaging kits because thats why people play support, they want super in depth kits that can be broken because these heros aren't intended to kill others unless stepped too, like if baps gonna have 3 health bars, he should have to use all 3 health bars to kill me, not just lands some headshots and win the dual against me because hes soldier with 3 health bars 😂
A thought I've had for Juno's ultimate is giving you the ability to reposition it with refires of the ultimate key. That with either a decent response delay, because orbital laser, or number touches would work in giving it better action rewarding responses.
Also Harsh ending lol
2:55 sound design and weapon feedback is one of the reasons the mythic skins are so great. they all have great weapon feedback.
I am shocked some people would think she is weak. I absolutely adore her it's the most fun I have had playing a hero since early Overwatch 1 as a longtime veteran, I do not know why she clicks with me so well. Honestly thought people would be asking to see her nerfed as I feel like I am having too much fun. I think we should wait on buffing her until we have more time to adapt to her more.
I consistently was doing 5-7k damage with her and 8k healing. She's gonna be so fucking strong if they buff her damage. People need to use her missiles for offense only.
She reminds me a lot of launch kiriko. Very high healing numbers (Seen up to 15K in multiple games) But her kit should be built around her utility or dueling potential not just healing value by just by putting out more numbers than other supports. Which was a serious issue with Kiri for a long time before they sufficiently nerfed her healing and made her headshots and cleansing debuffs for bonus healing and actual relevant part of her playstyle.
Either way. I'm glad they have added an actually lethal anti air hero for pharmacy etc. I just with it wasn't in the support class, right next to hero like Bap who was imo the prior best at dealing with them.
I was doing the same but I still felt like I barely had any real impact during fights
The missiles actually heal for more. 134+ 84 if you shoot the target right after. That's huge for a burst heal for tanks plus a team heal if you play properly.
Right? Her damage isn't bursty, but its very consistent and she has a huge clip. She can output a lot of suppressing fire onto the right squishy targets, and is immensely helpful to clear an off-angle with a dps. I geniunely think she's fine as is.
However, disagree with missiles, the Heal Seekers can be good in the right situation. Its not a "save your ass" button like a lot of other support cooldowns though, her gun is better for that. The Heal Seekers are more of a tempo play to do a big AoE heal if everyone is around half HP and is actively pushing in.
If you wait to use missiles until right when someone is gonna die, they won't lock-on and travel there in time, even at close range. Shoot first, only missile if you are safe to or if your target is really out of your falloff range and you need to try to get them help.
@@secretlyaslug2325 I think you clearly have no grasp on reality, when you see a support and then play them like a DPS
Shes not Anti=pharmacy , She was not designed for that and if your playing them like that your not playing A support right
Juno is balanced. But her issue is, shes balanced in a cast of OVERLY strong and insanely versatile supports. Juno highlights how absolutely broken the upper echelon supports are. When you are used to being blatantly OP, characters who are balanced and fair seem underpowered. I say it all the time, OW support players dont know how spoiled rich they are. You will NEVER EVER EVER find a game who has stronger supports/healers than OW.
im ranked the same in the three roles, that was true in season 7 ish, now is just dps cope.
@@KCrucismy brother, it's never stopped being true. It was true before OW2. And it's true to this day. You cannot find another game with supports stronger than the OW supports period.
@@georgealvarez1195And you also can't find other games were supports are fun and not the like tank were no one wants to play
“a cast of overly strong and insanely versatile supports” are you talking about kiriko, bap, lucio, and illiari? because the rest are nothing crazy and some of the rest are very underpowered like weaver and mercy.
@KCrucis I think you forgot that they never truly nerfed support healing they just increased hp pools and gave dps a passive. Supports are still at the same power that they were at in season 7 it's just that everything is even more broken. That's power creep for you.
Interesting analysis Spilo! A lot of what you said articulated exactly how I'm feeling with Juno. Overall a really fun character.
Some possible changes imo could include a healing headshot multiplier. This would still encourage aiming for headshots but on teammates. Also, perhaps a notification when an enemy Juno has locked onto you with pulsar torpedoes (like a 'locked on' text on screen). There are clear audio cues when she's starting up the torpedoes, but you don't know if you're the one being targeted.
Also, not sure if it's necessary but a 50% jump height increase with speed ring would be pretty nice. The mirror matches would be hilarious with everyone jumping in the air.
I thought torpedo would be a really cool dive ability because you lock onto a target and heal teammates, if a teammate Genji dives an enemy soldier Genji gets healed and the soldier loses 75 hp so it gives an advantage in a duel for your teammates, maybe the ability could be tuned so it is more effective at fulfilling this diving function?
i honestly love her ultimate, ‘welcome to orbit’ is so addicting to hear
I feel like either making the beam center on Juno or make it dynamically change speed depending on Juno's movement speed with the ability to activate the ult again to make it go to where you are aiming would be good
here are my changes to her, not sure if its good but just want to yap
her gun: we can try reducing the base dmg and healing and give a headshot multiplier for both, could be cool u have to aim for ur allies health
her double jump: i think the height can be a bit more or faster since it just feels to jump over small rails and nothing else. the hover is cool though
her glide: i think they can do something like mercy, mercy main here. when u ga normally and look down, u cant fly down completely just a bit. they can do something similar with juno where when she looks up or down, she doesnt move vertically the whole way just a bit. and their is a max to her vertically like mercy downward ga
her torpedoe: for me the ability doesnt feel very impactflu for a long cooldown. like i use the speed to engange and when my allies are like 65% hp i pop the ability then i do nothing but pocket. skill issue probably. i think it can be interesting where they add like a charge mecanic like venture's ultimate that she throws sombra virus to enemies and allies like she has 3 or 4 charge and has to aim to her allies or enemies each time she wants to release a charge and have a weaker version of her lock on on right click and can release while using her charges which consumes are stacks. or keep the current version and add like u said being able to use her smg, i think the charge for far targets should be a bit faster since i find myself waiting kinda long to get like 3 targets but one dies but if i use ealier then the one i didnt lock on dies like its suppose to be emergency heal but not fast enough.
her speed ring: i def thinks it need to go further and the slef speed boost is cool but i think allies that are near the projectile before it transforms into the ring should get a lower amount of speed boost then get the full effect when they refresh at the ring
her ult: its a very cool idea, they should add something like moira orb where it goes kinda fast but slows down when allies are near or stops moving when allies are at the center of the ring. kinda like ayaka from genshin where her blizzard stops when it touches the enemy. i think the color should be more pronounce since its like a light white yellow transparent ish so the enemy dont notice it that much, if they make it more red or pronounce then the enemy will notice more, also add like a dmg boost effect and healing or a special effect just faint so the enemy can see they are buff and its danger
i REALLY like her synergy with baptiste. her ultimate with the bap ultimate is legit so good. Plus she supports flankers a lot more than I expected. I actually found using her hyper ring as a disengage tool can be just as valuable as an engage tool, i personally would prefer it to be on maybe a 14 second cooldown opposed to a 16 second cooldown. Rockets are interesting, remind me of Valkyrie rockets from Apex. Her heal output is great. Love the gun, love the character design. A good return to “fun” form from overwatch as opposed to pure numbers characters like mauga.
More than anything else, I want louder/more audio feedback when healing allies right now. Juno feels good to me bc she isn't too weak or too strong currently, whether that remains the case on release is a different story. So for now audio/QoL change feels fair.
I think she’s largely fine as is.
She has solid healing from her left click, and has an AoE heal for 75+60 HoT, plus a healing ult.
She has solid poke/chip damage, but isn’t a duelist. She’s got a no-aim 75 dmg burst, so she can help secure kills, but not great at 1v1s.
She’s evasive, can get out of range of any divers except maybe Sombra. Against poke she can quickly swap to a different angle or get to cover.
Hyper ring is gonna be the ability that is a potential mess for highly coordinated play it it’s too good. It’s probably the aspect that could be changed/buffed etc. without breaking her for most levels of play.
I would like to see “crouch to descend” for Glide Boost though.
It feels like she’s at a healthy safe level of “‘not scrappy.” But above all, she’s fun. She’s like a unique combo of Mercy movement, Ana, Echo and Tracer. Plus she’s cute. I don’t think we will need to worry about her pick rate.
I think she is *THE* best character that has come out in Overwatch 2. And is certainly the best support of the 3 that have come out during these years. Her mobility and hitscan healing make her a lot of fun to play, you can chase her down if she wastes her cooldows BUT she can still be a menace if you let her, and to top it all off, she doesn’t have a BS get out of jail ability like life grip, suzu, lamp or resurrection, this is what supports should be like
I think JQ is a better character, being the only fun character in a miserable role is quite a feat. Mind you Juno is awesome def second best or third at least imo
Illari doesn't have any get out of jail free cards
For the glide boost, I was thinking if they would change it so that it allows Juno to ascend, but at a very slow rate, along with letting her descend freely, would make it feel slightly less awkward. It wouldn't affect the gameplay that much but perhaps it would help psychollgically with the clunky feeling.
I wouldn't mind if she could slowly ascend or descend during shift, more for manoeuvring around the map than being able to dodge with it like you can with her horizontal movement. Her speed ring should also have an early detonation option if you increase the range, rather than having to rely on hitting a surface, as being able to put it in the air is neat.
I will have to admit that I was a bit disappointed at first that she isn't a traditional flier like Echo, Pharah, and the rest. But that was just my first impressions. After these three days, I am SO happy she isn't another flier. If anything, she seems more like a glider and I'm okay with it. Overall, I do like her and would like to see more of her in my matches after release.
However, I have some thoughts and tweaks for her kit. Feel free to comment:
-Mediblaster - While a headshot multiplier would be nice, I don't think it's needed. However, I do think it needs a buff when it comes to its falloff range as playing her, and having others play as her, really felt inconsistent. Play it close and do more heal, but be more likely to be killed. Play it far, and the team will just explode from the low heals.
-Pulsar Torpedoes - It doesn't seem to be that strong, and if it stays like that, that's fine by me. As such, I personally think that this ability is just fine and should not be buffed; maybe the projectile speed, but that's a hard maybe! However, I do have one quality of life change request: let her shoot blaster while using the ability. Does her ability really need to make her defenseless?
-Glide Boost/Hyper Ring - Fine as is. If anything, convert her glide boost into a resource meter. That way it can also her to be a bit more dynamic in her movement, and even allow some vertical play without giving her vertical mobility. Though, roughly keep everything the same in terms of the numbers, like duration and cooldown as meter refill.
-Orbital Ray: It does seem quite strong though teams will need to understand its a healing ray, not a traditional damaging ray. One QOL change would probably make the beam a bit more transparent for your team. Also, "Welcome to Orbit" seems like a weird voice line for the ultimate.
junos ult travels from juno to her crosshair over the course of its duration maybe? like if she aims down, it stands still, but if she aims 20m away, it goes 20m and reaches the point at the end
I just wish her ult had a bit more range for its placement, I feel like it basically just drops right in front of you, which feels kinda weird, a bit more range with the placement would be nice, and then a move speed increase for it might not be necessary
I think one good use of the torpedoes in a 1v1 is damage stacking when you get the jump on someone, if a torpedo lands you can burst down 250 HP heroes with 2 clips and a melee. Even if you wait until after the torpedo lands to commit you can still boost in to confirm the kill in close range on good matchups, the torpedoes definitely feel a bit awkward but I’m not sure allowing Juno to shoot while using them is the right move.
I fell in love with her identity and playstyle. Sometimes feels clunky but overall she is a good hero. Hope the dev team adjusts numbers and makes the right changes for a good experience in S12!
Torpedos are worth using 1v1... As the engage tool.
If you drop in on a target, you can release the torpedo, especially at slightly longer range, and then shoot at it arrrives so the first thing an unaware player gets is 150+ damage.
T500 support player: Juno has high survivability from her unmatched mobility. Juno's falloff on her gun feels very unimpactful on the differing falloff ranges. After the 1st falloff, it feels less consistent than a baptiste spamming heals/dmg. The m2 is great, and can burst down a tank if the body block juno in front of juno. Juno m1 feels great, but the 3rd level of falloff combined with the inconsistency of a burst gun is not even worth shooting. A headshot mutipler higher than 1.25 would cause juno to blow up every single hero in the game. Juno could possibly use help against armour as it takes 6 full bursts to kill a bastion in scout form.
The mobility is very unique, and creating off angles. It would be nice to have flight control downward, though. I love her movement cooldowns, no complaints. Orbital strike is quite possibly one of the strongest support ults in the game. Seems like a moving bap window that goes through walls AND heals.
Juno will be incredible when paired with another flex support due to all the mobility she offers to her team.
Personally, I'd like if Pulsar Torpedoes had an option for the player to place a target on specific characters. I believe that would give more dynamic to their use since you now control who it hits, and you can choose how most effectively to spread out the ability. Damage 3 enemies and heal one teammate? Heal 3 teammates and damage one enemy? I feel like that would make it more fun to use
The thumbnail with spilo holding something in his fist while looking at pic of Juno is crazy
ONE OF US! ONE OF US!
That's a hammer btw
@@YTHandlesWereAMistake a hammer to pound some meat
@@YTHandlesWereAMistake a hammer to pound some meat
She can wall climb wall corners which is cool. Crosshair halfway off center from the corner and glide into the wall and forward up. Then you can do the air jump at the end to make high grounds you couldn't with a regular jump + air jump.
7:30
So I actually found that the projectile itself gives a speed boost, and I think the range is within a couple meters of you. If you shoot it through a teammate but it pops on the other side of them, they still get a speed boost before touching the ring, I've tested it multiple times, it also seems to hit behind you since I've given speed boost to teammates right behind me as well.
One thing I noticed about torpedoes is that it just takes a bit too long to lock on, the leftclick downtime is just too harsh. I'd prefer a faster lock-on over being able to shoot while using the ability
Juno is like Zen, but can't outduel the enemy with skillshots like him and the evasive options are not great on most maps (imagine flashpoint).
I like her abilities, even the shift, but I wish she had headshots and some more aggressive stuff. Lucio is super scary vs most heroes in duels and he can escape and heal A LOT while also providing speed infinitely on demand with no cd and ultimate is OP.
So I agree with Spilo on pretty much everything and I disagree with most other content creators!
Torpedos are so useless for damage - it's probably enough to "clean up" and chase targets with torpedos and pew pew pew, but in 99% of cases I just used torpedos for my team because the healing is really juicy
I agree, they need to change the ult voice line to something more ferocious like 竜神の剣を喰らえ
shes not a weeb like Genji and Hanzo.
what do you think JUno needs? or is she just.... fine as is?
Her healing is good and her damage is good.
What I want: a jump or double jump reset when using glide boosters and the ability to crouch while using glide boosters.
Her lock on feels extra, she would feel exactly the same without it
Too unusual too be fully judged now. Needs a bit more time and space.
There are some tweaks we could use from her survivability concept into other characters - "big support's patch".
Herself, Juno is too... counterintuitive? She feels like she needs to be a dive character, yet her movement is more of a Soldier's type (rotational), so there is no real way out for it to be true. You would think then that she is good for brawl, but there are no actual abilities for your team to get utility from (no Ana nades or Bap field) and speed boost is very controversial for brawl structures on terms of value.
So, in a sense, she is a good hero and yet there is kinda no actual place for her. Which means her kit needs to be tweaked a bit overall. Mostly agree with what I have heard from you, Spilo. I think in a month we all will have a new great character to play.
Either increase her mobility or increase her damage. Even though her mobility is pretty good, it's not enough for her to outmaneuver enemies consistently.
i think maybe a extra mini jump after using the glide, some edges feels awkward to slow "climb up" or something like that, maybe do the lock have more synergy with the kit like if u use the lock u go up a bit or do a little dash in the opposite u are facing when the rockets go
I think the torpedoes not changing her personal breaking point is fine. For one, she's a support. For two, she certainly changes the breaking points for other characters like DPS. I also think her shift is fine if you use it as a defensive ability. Like trying to fighta Lucio 1 v 1 isn't challenging enough when he's not riding on walls, and I think the same applies to Juno, make her a little bit faster maybe, but I think she's fine playing back to mid line behind her team. Not only does that make her a harder target, but it also fixes the problem with speed ring. Using her speed ring gives her a boost to let her take an off angle without traveling the same route as her team, it gives her room to be aggressive without it being her whole playstyle.
Which actually does make me in favor of letting her shoot while locking on
I think her flight ability should be her main identity. Right now it's mostly used to reposition, but if it had better movement there could be the choice to alternatively use it for defense. Right now she's really easy to kill because even with that ability she can be a sitting duck to any dive character without the damage of Zen or the abilities of Ana
I think another use of the torpedoes, which is very niche, if you manage to sneak up behind somebody you can torpedoe them and shoot while the torpedoe travels for a quicker unexpected burst of damage. Thats another use in a 1v1, though if you have the jump on somebody like that youve probably already won that duel anyways
Honestly, I think glide boost should be a resource meter instead of a cooldown (and have it be around 8-10 seconds max, because it isn't really a good escape option, it's more of a decent positioning tool). I also think the ring should be 30m max and you can press the ability key again to stop it mid flight of it needs to be shorter. Other than that, I think she is better than most DLC releases.
My biggest complaint about the character is that I think because there is no headshot, so you aren’t occasionally getting that rewarding headshot sound indicator that they need to come up with a new sound indicator to indicate more noticeably when you are dealing damage somethings similar to Anna’s hissing or sizzling sound The represent the damage and bleed effect. For the record, I don’t think Juneau needs a bleed affect nor do I think it should be the same sound effect just some kind of sound effect to better indicate when you’re hitting damage.
I feel like they should make the orbital sound like it’s charging up when Juno activates it, like a Godzilla beam
We were running dive with Juno in scrims the other day and her lock on mechanic is really good with a dive, just prep it as winston/genji go in and let it rip on thier support (plus bonus healing for your lads). With genji and winstons combo it is an insta-gib. Have fun getting targeted every team fight though :(
I fucking loved playing this hero for the short duration we had her, might have a reason to comeback now
The not going up/free flight is fine, but I would love to be able to crouch to descend during the boost. Having to cancel the ability early to get under an arch or through a door because the ground happens to dip there is quite annoying.
My main and only complaint with this character is how little control you have over the ultimate. It wasnt uncommon where i’d ult and my team would not use it effectively, (whether this is a qp thing or a lack of understanding on what it does who knows) locking me from pushing with it and making it give near no value. Making it function like harbors ultimate from valorant, where you can control how fast/slow it moves forward based on your movement input would be great.
I’d still like for her to either get 1.5x crits or for her to lose damage falloff like Ana, but I do really like your suggestion about letting her use her primary while targeting her missiles. Her damage numbers are usually decent, but it feels a lot like spam damage similar to Moira and I think letting her crit while maybe reducing her mag size in exchange will help make her damage potentially more impactful.
I thought her damage was a bit off when I first played her but honestly now I think it's fine. It's good enough without being crazy. I was able to kill things fairly consistently. She's not LW.
Buffing her damage with the mobility she has could very easily make her the most broken thing in the game.
i think headshots will just be fun and add more skill ceiling, even if the base damage is reduced and the HS multiplier is very low. The little DING DING DING with her gun will be so fun to hear
Only two changes i think she needs is an ult buff (idk what it would be) and a deploy range buff to the ring. Otherwise, i think she has a lot of potential and im excited to see space ranger comps!
I kinda wish you could aim her rockets similar to how lifeweaver can with petals. He’s able to change the trajectory and I think that would be beneficial for her and give a tiny bit more skill expression
I’m not sure how I feel about her being able to crit. If she can it should probably be a small multiplier. I don’t like scaling her damage back to accommodate crits because I feel like her damage is already in a decent spot vs 250hp heroes
TikTok Juno playstyle doing a 321 count down on your right click is actually so op . And when you get pressured you just use the 2 movement abilities you have to run into the enemies spawn 😂
ML7 made the hero look pretty godly imo. Granted it's ml but he showed so much creativity in his positioning/ roll outs and terrain manipulation. Slippery hero.
I think the torpedoes would be better if you had the chance to lock onto the same target multiple times with a cap on how many missiles can be fired, maybe even specific to friend vs enemy, so that you can't just full charge it on your allies every time but it still has the potential for more impact against enemies.
While it "doesn't affect the breakpoint" in theory, it is improbable that someone will hit enough shots on a non-tank to 3burst them, so in realistic scenarios, 4 bursts tend to be needed for kills when shooting well vs a skilled at movement enemy. Not that it matters anyway because so long as you have ammo, as you say, you might as well shoot instead.
Apologies for the akshually post. *adjusts glasses*.
Good thoughts from you in general.
So before even queueing up to try her, I spent about 3 hours in customs trying to fully understand her movement and trying to find movement techs. I managed to figure out how to consistently maximise height and movement speed, and found some interesting techs that allow for incredibly unpredictable movement. Like, almost Tracer level unpredictable.
After my first play session I genuinely felt like she was incredibly strong. Damage per 10 is roughly that of Baptiste, Healing per 10 is about halfway between Lucio and Kiri (Assuming aggro playstyle not healbot kiri or floorcio). Deaths per 10 for me were about 3.2 which is wild. Dying is very very hard IF you take the time to figure out the movement properly.
I unironically think that people saying she's weak don't realise how good the movement can be. I really like that she feels strong ONLY if you have good movement. If they buff her, I just hope that they don't lower the skill floor. I feel the support role really lacks characters with high skill floors and ceilings. Many supports have high skill ceilings but the skill floors are generally quite low IMO. I loved playing her so much.
spilo i love your take but what i would think is she needs headshots and ability to lock and shoot but they could reduce the number of shots per burst to make her feel less like a damsel in distress whenever a tracer shows up but low fire rate may lift skill sealing so that it feels like you have to hit your shot like how kiri is but over all i agree with all that you said great take tbh
I think without verticality to her glide, she’s way too squishy. She’s an easy target for hitscans because of how often she’s airborn and she’s extremely vulnerable to dive because she has no sustain and her only escape is speed. If her kit didn’t force her to play pretty close range it would be a lesser issue, and would also help the consistency of her torpedoes.
I haven’t played her and don’t actually know how her controls feel, but a toggle for low gravity by default and then holding crouch in the air to fall fast seems like it would be nice for QoL
I have been said this, when everybody was playing the new hero. My teams were just running hard dive and stomping on her back. She honestly needs some help or at least let her movement ability active a regen
I think she should be able to pinpoint on the ground where her ultimate is deployed, that way she can stay mobile and use it to help the team
What really needs to be fixed is being unable to drop until glide is over. I don't have a problem with it in fights. What annoys me is that many spawn rooms have a downward ramp before exiting. I want to boost out of the spawn room to get back to my teammates quickly. Yet if I boost out of one of these rooms, I get stuck at the height I'm at before I go down the ramp and exit the door. This causes me to not be able to exit the door until glide is over because she's stuck at a height that's higher than the top of the door. It's really clunky and annoying.
i think juno's only real issue is her burst fire, its a 12 round burst so its REALLY apparent when your missing shots, missing two shots turns 84 damage to 70. and considering that and her 10 second missle is all shes got, it can sometimes feel really underwhelming to hit shots,
i think rather then giving her critical hits, a mechanic proven to push ana over the edge, her burst should be lowered down to 10 shots, and her ammo and damage altered to accommodate. when im hitting shots she feels great, a super good support, when im not, she feels less great, but still fun to play. she doesn't need skill expression in her shots, you gotta land 12 consecutive shots to hit a moving target, thats more then enough skill expression, she needs LESS skill expression so each missed shot is less apparent, and THATS why she feels underwhelming sometimes. when a tracer is zipping around you, those five shots you missed become REALLY noticeable in her damage.
i think altering ANY other part of her kit would ruin her, she feels like shes currently teetering a line between too op and too weak, and tilting any mechanic too far left or right ruins any sort of fun she might have. i think people are misunderstanding her "lack of skill expression" problem is actually an "overabundance of skill expression" problem. kinda like if genji had 10 shuriken instead of 3. imagine trying to kill a target if his damage was spread out to 10 shots. thats too much skill expression.
I wish you could control how fast the ult goes I feel like it would be cool to have that choice
Would be cool if the hyper ring could accelerate it. It doesn’t make sense from a logic standpoint, but would be a cool interaction in her kit.
I think you nailed it with the headshot take. I really wouldn't mind her not having headshots. The takes about speed ring and torpedoes are also okey, but i really think she needs that jump reset on dash. For once it makes the dash itself more unique and the second thing is, the ledge climb is really not consistent enough. Most of the time i am not sure if the wall is crooked enough for me to climb on it and if I am close enough to the egde to get to highground. It makes it too complicated to use it this way during team fights, because most of the time its 50 50 if you are going to get away or get blocked.
I honestly kind of agree with the idea that the character doesn’t need to do head shots however, I feel like maybe the damage in general should be a little bit higher to compensate for that so much. For the record I do also agree that supports well they should be able to defend themselves shouldn’t necessarily be better than damage characters at dealing damage.
Her damage is fine and she already has plenty of mobility, she doesn't need to be able to defend herself. Mercy can't defend herself properly, but she has strong mobility to account for that.
It may be a hot take, but I actually think she is already very strong and people just haven't figured her out yet and at some point down the line her utility will get nerfed. Her ult is literally just a better Valk because it does more damage boost and healing simultaneously and Juno can also shoot during it.
True it is a better Valk, but Valk trades off for consistency, covers more map area, longer duration, and easier to cast rez
@@Megggazap The fact that Valk lasts for 15 seconds and still isn't a fight-winning ult should tell you enough. The only thing it's consistent at is being underwhelming, it's ironically more useful at keeping mercy alive more than anyone else.
I agree 100%, her kit would feel better if they balanced the torpedoes and primary fire to work simultaneously.
I'd make ult folowing teammates - activate like ana does (but even herself can be a target), a bit bigger range and it puts itself in the middle of the target and tracks it's movement. It would be like u can put rally but on your rein etc
I dont think that she should have free flight, however i do think that the fluidity of her glide boost could be looked at. I think that the glide boost should give her something more similar to lucio's movement physics for the duration, so that she could slide around and use momentum in the air. Almost like ice physics. That's what i thought the ability would feel like from its name and from the trailer, and i think it would be super fun. That being said i still think her kit is super fun as is and both options for movement have advantages and disadvantages, such as the fact that as is she can quickly strafe
I wish you had your double jump returned whenever you were grounded with glide boost, so you could get your double jump after sliding up a ledge even if you spent double jump to get to that ledge.
As someone who played her non-stop during the weekend and plan on maining her on release. She DOES NOT need headshot damage. With her glide she would have easy headshots, even with a reduced multiplier, it’s going to be too strong.
I really think that she should have a headshot mod. I just want that extra bit of skill expression, and would be fine if they reduced her overall damage to compensate.
I am a little disappointed in her shift. I love the skill expression of flight abilities, but glide boost just feels like a "strafe plus" to me. It just lacks the creativity and skill expression that I wanted, but maybe I'm just not used to it yet.
I like the idea of her ult following her around a lot actually, but I also kinda like the way it works now. If it followed her, it would be a fun nod to Lucio lol.
She has very fair balance, it's the other supports who are overturned that make her feel inadequate in some aspects
The common thread here is that the lack of need for target differentiation comes at the cost of no headshots. Like Anna, she gets value no matter who she shoots with her primary. Feels fair to me. Also, Kiri's headshots are pretty broken.
I think her boots last a little too long. CD is good, but it feels like she stays up for ever. When paired with her double jump not having a cool down, her air time is crazy. If not shorter boot time, maybe a Hanzo/Liveweaver-esc cool down on her double jump, because it is more efficacious than either, and though weaker than exo, has no charge time.
Also I don't think support characters should be tuned for dueling. The word support means what is means. I think her lock ability it well tuned.
I really want to see them give her slightly more verticality.. it doesnt feel good ingame to constantly be double jumping at many common high grounds and visually not feeling like you can make it, despite alot of them being reachable because you can "glide" over them with shift.. it still doesn't look like you will make it and feels awkward.
I'd also like to see her have a slightly reduced headshot multiplier.. she can be difficult to aim on, especially moving at high speeds and it does feel good to be rewarded for hitting those shots.. She also struggles to 1v1 many of the hero cast, and not just DPS.. alot of the other support heroes can simply win because they have self heals and her damage isnt enough to keep up.. a small headshot multiplier could reward the aim matchup vs these heroes to.
Otherwise, I'd like to have some audio feedback when connecting her shots on an ally like Ana has when she heals.
Otherwise, she is one of the most fun heroes I've played and likely my new main.
I dont think ive seen this anywhere but letting the speed boost amp the ult movement speed would go a long way imo.
The ult voicelines for juno and venture have been so underwhelming that i cant tell if it's mine ulting, or the enemy. Historically, Enemy ults sound very threatening and epic.
I'm actually sad that I can't play Juno anymore, it made me realise that the hero is very fun to play,. Great release!
Interesting points Spilo, concerning headshot, I would like that they add it, however, weirdly I'm not annoyed that Ana doesn't have it, why? Is Juno missing something else that make people think she needs headshot?
Ana has a way to prevent heals, so her DOT can be more meaningful, the sound of her hitmarker is way more satisfying, ana only has to land the single bullet to deal the 75 dmg (so she can jiggle peek etc in between shots to keep herself safer while still dealing full damage)
Ana is a way better 1v1er in general because of the nade burst dmg/heal + she doesn't have to peek full time because of the big single bullet. For Juno to deal 80dmg to tracer, she has to expose herself to tracer the entire time, and tracer has better ttk.
Juno cannot win a 1v1 against most ranged heroes. The mobility makes you want to take cheeky angles but you should never ever accept true 1v1s. She's very much a sidekick that tags along with an ally on angles, OR just sit behind the main fight and spam. She has to run away like LW or mercy even though she's an aim-based support. Bap, Illari, Ana can all hold their own in 1v1s but Juno will never win against a similarly skilled opponent.
I mainly use the torpedoes as a healing ability over causing damage since it doesn’t do much anyhow
For Speed Ring, I understand that they want to ring to be able to deploy mid-air, so the projectile needs to go off at some distance. But at the same time, since the projectile gives the speed, and the ring resets the speeds duration, then simply increasing the ring's distance would increase the duration for some targets. I think a solution might be to remove the speed boost coming from the projectile, and add it to an initial burst around Juno herself. Secondly, the projectile will activate either when it hits a surface, when you click the ability button again, or when it flys 30 meters. So Juno, and those within, lets say 5 meters, will get a speed boost upon cast, and those who pass through the ring when it appears also get the boost.
My biggest issue with her in my games so far is exactly the ult's feedback. When you're playing with Juno the ult does not feel impactful at all, you barely notice when she's used it to the point that sometimes I go a whole game without noticing any Juno ults, and part of that is also the fact that there's literally nothing to tell you when the ult is effecting you or not. As Juno herself the ult feels really weak and it felt like your team wasn't using it or even acknowledging it. And then worst of all when playing against her it feels about as impactful as an immo field. I would constantly find myself having to consciously remind myself that she has ulted and I need to be careful. The sound effects and the voiceline leave a lot to be desired
I don't think she should get to double jump after glide but I think glide should give her a jump charge, so she could double jump hit glide and then get to use her moon boots extra charge for a third jump.
Gives you a little more verticality but at the cost of using the glide strictly to get the extra height.
Really like the other ideas though. I just want headshots cause headshot heal would be awesome and it fits theme of it being a gun, Ana makes sense not to because it's a dart.
Anyway if they changed nothing I'd still be happy
I like her. I have not played her against others but have played against her. She has good weapons and it also heals. She has no recoil on her weapon, and lots of ammunition.
i think they should definitely add the “tkk tkk” sound effect that you get when a damage boosted ally hits a shot on an enemy target for mercy to juno’s ultimate. it would feel a lot better but as for actual balance, i would like to see them play with a larger radius of her ultimate.