Hearing these loops probably makes me think they were used in level transitions or time travelling transitions, like a loop to introduce you to a new stage. I wouldn't see any other reason on why they exist and go unused
I think they were supposed to make the songs loop. I mean, in sega cd all the time the song fade out and restart, i think they wanted it to play non-stop, like the other Sonic games.
There's what sounds (to my ears at least) like a few instrumental differences between these and the final versions of the tracks (Wacky workbench bad future for example). Is it possible that some of these are glimpses into earlier versions of the tracks where the instruments and their paratemters werent finalised and ended up being changed for the final version?
That would make sense. In stardust speedway present, there's a conga sound that on final version is a TR 808 cowbell aparently. Or they were trying to make the songs more variated? Maybe we will never know it :( At least not until we get more music prototypes from Sonic CD.
I just now realized I messed up and included Stardust Speedway "B" twice in the list. Aaaand I can't edit the comment because that would remove the heart. [internal screaming]
I know this is easy to recognize but i got crazy when i heard the metallic madness present loop, it's so cool to know the intro for the past theme was supposed to also be in the present theme
Yes!! i love so much this sequence. There's a fun fact: the same sequence was used in the final version of the song, playing together with the piano! but is pretty hidden, is super hard to listen
Hello! To me personally, the VGM rips sound better than these files. If I recall correctly, the loops were not Redbook audio, unlike the Present, Good Future, and Bad Future themes, so they could play on loop as the Redbook tracks were being reset, which would be why they get ripped as VGM files. Could you maybe elaborate on this? This is quite confusing to me^^ Especially because these sound lower quality to me.
Thanks for your comment. And yeah, those sounds are not redbook tracks, they're pcm sounds, AFAIK they're meant to make the songs play without a stop/fadeout at end, but this idea was scrapped, aparently because the quality difference which would sounds a little weird, there's various people who tried to do that with the VGM rips/WAV rips but it really sounds weird. The pcm chip add some higher frequencies on the sounds that ends up making it sounds higher quality, since the wav rips lack those higher sounds. To me, the reason why I personally prefer those is because the VGM rips has some artifacts that does not existed in the original sounds, and also did not existed in the CDDA songs, so the wav rips basically sounds closer to the CDDA songs, but at lower quality. So to make it simplier, IMO: VGM rips -> higher quality, lower similarity with CDDA songs WAV rips -> lower quality, higher similarity with CDDA songs
If i'm not wrong, they exists in final version of game, although they're not used, that's why i did not included them, but you're right, i should have included it, sorry!
I don't think there's a definitive confirmation, but some new info show these had to be cut due to problems with the design of the idea. In the past, it was theorized maybe they run out of time to finish the idea. But some months ago, some researchers found that the code was fully programmed in one of the prototypes, working as expected, which means that lack of time was likely not the cause of the removal. In terms of the design of the idea: these loops do not work well with big part of the songs. In some cases they uses different instruments (Stardust Speedway Present loop, for example, uses the Drumbase conga, while the CDDA song uses 808 cowbell. Metallic Madness Present loop has a slower BPM when compared to the CDDA. But most important: it don't work because the end of the songs are not designed to recive these loops, and the start of the songs are not designed to continue the end of the loop. That causes a problem when it comes to getting the full experience of listening the songs. In addition to that, there was the limitation: the loops had to be stored in a much lower quality (example: 24000hz) compared to the CDDA songs (44100hz). That being said, these problems are most likely the cause of why the loops had to be cut.
@@CollisionChaosThey were unused because it was too difficult to get the timing down. Landscape designer Masato Nishimura confirmed this way back in 2011, but it went unnoticed until recently in 2021.
@@lukabogavac5772 I believe he was not involved with creating the songs so i don't know how much this is correct. Like i said the evidence points that flaws on the design of the idea could be the main cause of why it had to be removed, because even if the timing was perfect, these problems would still happen
@@CollisionChaos Okay, but just in case, I am spreading this information because I always check Sonic Retro site and forum for more information and confirmation that has been shared for over the years and The Cutting Room Floor for more correct information, and just to point that out, Nishimura on twitter claimed that he was also involved in soundtrack and according to research of The Cutting Room Floor and Sonic Retro, this was the reason why the loops were removed from the final game. I normally would never claim or say something that something is true or not if I don't have an official confirmation from someone who was involved in this game, and of course, I would never lie. But I only wanted to say this just in case so you would know the real confirmation from someone who worked in this game. But you also might be right, since Nishimura also might misremembering since it was back then 19 or 18 years ago and by the way, who would ever remember anything or everything that happened two decades ago?! Not even myself! So okay, I'm sorry if I provided a misinformation, but just letting you know. And thank you so much for the response! It meant a lot to me! ☺️
@@CollisionChaos Metallic Present loop sounding like it belongs for bad future and vice versa, I think the way they were named had to have been a mistake
Hey there, I actually heard these beta loops in the 2011 Mobile Port, and the multiple uploads of the songs in the 2011 Mobile Port, were they always there?
This game is from 1993. The original version of it was supposed to have the loops, they would makes the songs play non-stop, like happens with the games that comes before Sonic CD (Sonic 1 and 2), as well like the past tracks. However due to the poor quality of the feature (since the loops had to be stored in lower quality) they decided to cut the idea. In the newer port/releases they decided to put the idea back, however they losted the original uncompressed loops and only had the low quality ones, that's why it did not sounded much good.
@@CollisionChaos After I commented this I found out the beta loops were discovered in early 2011 (or perhaps an earlier date I don't know about), which I imagine was before the mobile port was released giving them enough time to implement them into the game.
@@CollisionChaosI thought they couldn't get the timing right for the pcm loops. Also I'm pretty sure they were originally meant to be cdda loops but there wasn't enough storage or something, I could be wrong.
@@maxrichards5925 They existed in the prototype version, but when they released the final version in 1993 they removed them. I don't know if they ever said why, but it's probably because some technical issues about them. The start of these loops don't work with the end of the songs, and the start of the songs don't work for the end of loop. It creates a incosistency on the sound that don't allow the loops to be properly used. That's one of the problems. The other one is that the loops are stored on a much lower quality, with some being in stereo and some being mono, while the songs are always stereo. There's also some instruments that are different in the loops, or even different BPMs. These tehcnical problems were most likely the reason the loops had to be cut.
@@killercreppypastero2129 If you're talking about Sonic CD 2011, i have not played the game, but a friend show me some songs and aparently they used remastered VGM rips for it. IMO it sounded really weird, because it does not fit well, since the quality difference. About your last question, I really don't know what relic ruins is, i'm sorry.
Thank you for your comment. If i remember correctly, both exists in the final version of the game, that's why I have not included it. But thinking better you're righ, I should have included those.
I have remastered these. ua-cam.com/video/HT5jdA7BZrU/v-deo.html
nice work!
Thank you for uploading these. Now we have them in their original quality without upsampling, which means I can remaster them.
Hearing these loops probably makes me think they were used in level transitions or time travelling transitions, like a loop to introduce you to a new stage. I wouldn't see any other reason on why they exist and go unused
I think they were supposed to make the songs loop. I mean, in sega cd all the time the song fade out and restart, i think they wanted it to play non-stop, like the other Sonic games.
@@CollisionChaos that too, but it would also be cool as a stage transition
@@CollisionChaos That makes sense considering that's what the Whitehead remake would do
Thats the highest quality version of 1:09 ive ever found
These would make perfect ringtones
There's what sounds (to my ears at least) like a few instrumental differences between these and the final versions of the tracks (Wacky workbench bad future for example). Is it possible that some of these are glimpses into earlier versions of the tracks where the instruments and their paratemters werent finalised and ended up being changed for the final version?
That would make sense. In stardust speedway present, there's a conga sound that on final version is a TR 808 cowbell aparently. Or they were trying to make the songs more variated? Maybe we will never know it :( At least not until we get more music prototypes from Sonic CD.
The Metallic Madness one is noticeably slower than the actual track. So my guess is that they are a glimpse into previous versions of the music.
I can't believe Sega has never released these bits. Sonic CD got an official soundtrack album and they're not even there. It's ridiculous.
The official release on Spotify is horrendous. Some of the songs literally fade out before looping.
@@adre2194and the past ones are so compressed it’s hard to hear anything
These loops were intended to loop the songs, but were removed from the final game simply because it was too difficult to get the timing down.
Cool to se them extracted directly from the rom
You can hear the complete tracks with this parts in Sonic CD Restored
List, in order of appearance:
- Palmtree Panic
- Palmtree Panic "G"
- Palmtree Panic "B"
- Collision Chaos
- Collision Chaos "G"
- Collision Chaos "B"
- Quartz Quadrant "B"
- Tidal Tempest
- Tidal Tempest "G"?
- Tidal Tempest "B"
- Quartz Quadrant
- Quartz Quadrant "G"
- Wacky Workbench
- Wacky Workbench "G"
- Wacky Workbench "B"
- Stardust Speedway
- Stardust Speedway "G"
- Stardust Speedway "B"
- Stardust Speedway "B"
- Metallic Madness
- Metallic Madness "G"
- Metallic Madness "B"
I just now realized I messed up and included Stardust Speedway "B" twice in the list.
Aaaand I can't edit the comment because that would remove the heart. [internal screaming]
I know this is easy to recognize but i got crazy when i heard the metallic madness present loop, it's so cool to know the intro for the past theme was supposed to also be in the present theme
Yes!! i love so much this sequence. There's a fun fact: the same sequence was used in the final version of the song, playing together with the piano! but is pretty hidden, is super hard to listen
I hope a lot of these get remastered.
Working on that right now.
Sean. He just does it
@@PeskyPlumber69 You got that right! I did it.
any idea how the synths were made in the MMZ part at 1:09?
i think could be roland jd 800 fantasia layered with something else, i just don't know exactly what :(
Thank you! Yes I think it might be all jd 800 patches.. but I am ignorant when it comes to recognizing these...
WAIT the Quarts Quardrant Guitars in there. That's just op
Hello! To me personally, the VGM rips sound better than these files. If I recall correctly, the loops were not Redbook audio, unlike the Present, Good Future, and Bad Future themes, so they could play on loop as the Redbook tracks were being reset, which would be why they get ripped as VGM files.
Could you maybe elaborate on this? This is quite confusing to me^^ Especially because these sound lower quality to me.
Thanks for your comment. And yeah, those sounds are not redbook tracks, they're pcm sounds, AFAIK they're meant to make the songs play without a stop/fadeout at end, but this idea was scrapped, aparently because the quality difference which would sounds a little weird, there's various people who tried to do that with the VGM rips/WAV rips but it really sounds weird. The pcm chip add some higher frequencies on the sounds that ends up making it sounds higher quality, since the wav rips lack those higher sounds. To me, the reason why I personally prefer those is because the VGM rips has some artifacts that does not existed in the original sounds, and also did not existed in the CDDA songs, so the wav rips basically sounds closer to the CDDA songs, but at lower quality.
So to make it simplier, IMO:
VGM rips -> higher quality, lower similarity with CDDA songs
WAV rips -> lower quality, higher similarity with CDDA songs
I see, thanks!
@@MorrisMusic I can explain this. They sound better because of interpolation. He forgot to apply linear interpolation to bring out high frequencies.
Morris!!! I love your content my G, interesting to see two of my favorites interacting lmao.
Haha, thanks! I appreciate it
The Palmtree Panic Bad Future beatbox comes from T-La Rock - Three Minutes of Beatbox.
WOAH awesome finding! I always wondered about what could be the original source of it, thank you for sharing! :D
@@CollisionChaos No problem! It's heard around 1 minute and 23 seconds.
ua-cam.com/video/P1vNPqxpxVQ/v-deo.html
is it bad that i recognize each zone?
tbh I kinda do like when it loops I've honestly never heard the loops before.
do you know which drums and bass were used in the You Can do Anything song?
I don't know about the bass. Some of the drums sounds like TR-909 for me, probably sampled, maybe from the Goldmine.
@@CollisionChaos ohhh yeah makes sense, thanks, Il keep searching for other instruments, if I find something ima let you know
the boss and final boss loops are missing
If i'm not wrong, they exists in final version of game, although they're not used, that's why i did not included them, but you're right, i should have included it, sorry!
Thank you
why were these unused?
I don't think there's a definitive confirmation, but some new info show these had to be cut due to problems with the design of the idea.
In the past, it was theorized maybe they run out of time to finish the idea. But some months ago, some researchers found that the code was fully programmed in one of the prototypes, working as expected, which means that lack of time was likely not the cause of the removal.
In terms of the design of the idea: these loops do not work well with big part of the songs. In some cases they uses different instruments (Stardust Speedway Present loop, for example, uses the Drumbase conga, while the CDDA song uses 808 cowbell. Metallic Madness Present loop has a slower BPM when compared to the CDDA. But most important: it don't work because the end of the songs are not designed to recive these loops, and the start of the songs are not designed to continue the end of the loop. That causes a problem when it comes to getting the full experience of listening the songs. In addition to that, there was the limitation: the loops had to be stored in a much lower quality (example: 24000hz) compared to the CDDA songs (44100hz). That being said, these problems are most likely the cause of why the loops had to be cut.
@@CollisionChaosohh, ok
very interesting it was programed in a prototype too
@@CollisionChaosThey were unused because it was too difficult to get the timing down. Landscape designer Masato Nishimura confirmed this way back in 2011, but it went unnoticed until recently in 2021.
@@lukabogavac5772 I believe he was not involved with creating the songs so i don't know how much this is correct. Like i said the evidence points that flaws on the design of the idea could be the main cause of why it had to be removed, because even if the timing was perfect, these problems would still happen
@@CollisionChaos Okay, but just in case, I am spreading this information because I always check Sonic Retro site and forum for more information and confirmation that has been shared for over the years and The Cutting Room Floor for more correct information, and just to point that out, Nishimura on twitter claimed that he was also involved in soundtrack and according to research of The Cutting Room Floor and Sonic Retro, this was the reason why the loops were removed from the final game. I normally would never claim or say something that something is true or not if I don't have an official confirmation from someone who was involved in this game, and of course, I would never lie. But I only wanted to say this just in case so you would know the real confirmation from someone who worked in this game. But you also might be right, since Nishimura also might misremembering since it was back then 19 or 18 years ago and by the way, who would ever remember anything or everything that happened two decades ago?! Not even myself! So okay, I'm sorry if I provided a misinformation, but just letting you know. And thank you so much for the response! It meant a lot to me! ☺️
I'm convinced that R8A and R8D's names were mistakenly mislabeled in the files. Sounds obvious that they're switched imo
What do you mean? :O
@@CollisionChaos Metallic Present loop sounding like it belongs for bad future and vice versa, I think the way they were named had to have been a mistake
it says you deleted it
Hey there, I actually heard these beta loops in the 2011 Mobile Port, and the multiple uploads of the songs in the 2011 Mobile Port, were they always there?
This game is from 1993. The original version of it was supposed to have the loops, they would makes the songs play non-stop, like happens with the games that comes before Sonic CD (Sonic 1 and 2), as well like the past tracks. However due to the poor quality of the feature (since the loops had to be stored in lower quality) they decided to cut the idea. In the newer port/releases they decided to put the idea back, however they losted the original uncompressed loops and only had the low quality ones, that's why it did not sounded much good.
@@CollisionChaos After I commented this I found out the beta loops were discovered in early 2011 (or perhaps an earlier date I don't know about), which I imagine was before the mobile port was released giving them enough time to implement them into the game.
@@CollisionChaosI thought they couldn't get the timing right for the pcm loops. Also I'm pretty sure they were originally meant to be cdda loops but there wasn't enough storage or something, I could be wrong.
I’ve heard of these loops before. They’re in the final release of Sonic CD right?
They were removed in the official release from 1993. I don't know much details about different released that were made after that.
@@CollisionChaos Oh alright. I think these were removed in the 2011 rerelease but I could be wrong
@@maxrichards5925 They existed in the prototype version, but when they released the final version in 1993 they removed them. I don't know if they ever said why, but it's probably because some technical issues about them. The start of these loops don't work with the end of the songs, and the start of the songs don't work for the end of loop. It creates a incosistency on the sound that don't allow the loops to be properly used. That's one of the problems. The other one is that the loops are stored on a much lower quality, with some being in stereo and some being mono, while the songs are always stereo. There's also some instruments that are different in the loops, or even different BPMs. These tehcnical problems were most likely the reason the loops had to be cut.
Could you do the last one remixed?
Maybe one day!
I like the bad future samples and your work
This loops have to be on the game rigth?
Sorry for my english xd
Pd:Thanks for recopilate all the soundtrack of sonic of remaster him
Those loops are pcm sounds that aparently were meant to make the CDDA songs loops instead of having a fade out.
@@CollisionChaos ahhh thanks for respond
@@CollisionChaos now i think this loops are used in the remake of Taxman
What do you think about relic ruins and her own "ost"?
@@killercreppypastero2129 If you're talking about Sonic CD 2011, i have not played the game, but a friend show me some songs and aparently they used remastered VGM rips for it. IMO it sounded really weird, because it does not fit well, since the quality difference.
About your last question, I really don't know what relic ruins is, i'm sorry.
@@CollisionChaos relic ruins or R2 level eliminated of sonic CD
And the loops on the us soundtrack are from the sonic boom album
0:27 bu müzik tanıdık geldide neyse 😂
Cool!
Pls give beta ppz bad future
You forgot Boss and Final Fever.
And QQZ bad future
@@hermanojunior1641 The QQZ Bad Future is not missing: 0:25.
@@lukabogavac5772 oh, sorry. I hadn't seen it, because it came before the Tidal Tempest.
Thank you for your comment. If i remember correctly, both exists in the final version of the game, that's why I have not included it. But thinking better you're righ, I should have included those.
@@hermanojunior1641 OK. I know.
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