The solution to bleed out is giving the survivors the option to just bleed out fast if they choose to, so they die in like 10 seconds. Cuz getting rid of bleed out entirely is stupid since that is often part of the pressure a killer has when slugging, if the survivor doesnt bleed out, the survivors can just leave one slugged and do gens cuz he wont die anyway and unbreakable is certainly not the play, in high mmr it happens that one survivor isnt hooked until the very end of the match and if that guy gets unbreakable for no reason while the killer is searching for him to hook is just gonna be abyssmal. Slugging is a tool of pressure for the Killer and shouldnt be made worse, survivors should just have the option to escape being kept hostage when all are slugged. Which would be granting the ability to just completely bleed out instantly at like 50% bleed out timer or so
i don’t think BHVR wants giving up to be a mechanic in the game. Even self unhook attempts are meant to be a last ditch effort, not to die faster. Most they could or would do is when your recovery bar is max you can try to get up by yourself and have it work like self unhooks
@@crunchycakegaming1507 yeah i get that, but when all are slugged, no ubs in the game, then they should have the option to bleed out instantly, cuz at that point the bleed out function has no use. Giving survivors second chances on everything they do that can fuck up your whole game cuz of one gamble shouldnt be a thing imo
@@saikyue4462 there’s an issue with all forms of any anti-slug system they could implement. If you’re soloq you could have unbreakable but your teammate doesn’t know that and decides to give up. Even if you’re in a SWF it becomes an issue for the killer because the killer gets more bloodpoints for sacrifices and if the killer just got a snowball half his blood points from that game are gone. Even if the killer really is just slugging everyone and not hooking to waste everyone’s time it’s 4 minutes at most, less if you’ve been downed before. They could implement faster bleedout but instant bleedout is never coming to the game and should never come
Here’s something I posted as a comment but I’m gonna put it here as well because it’s relevant :) Heres something I wrote recently prompted by a Reddit post. My thoughts on an optional method of bleeding out faster to avoid wasting time on the ground. For starters, a feature to allow survivors to bleed out faster can ONLY apply when all survivors are in the dying or hooked states. It must be a LOST game if we’re implementing features for players to just leave, otherwise it faces the same issues as ragequit ‘solutions’ like removing the dc penalty. Like it or not, there are situations where it is detrimental to the killer to insta pick a survivor. The game shouldn’t punish killers (not in a strategic way, obviously if a survivor is dying faster that a positive for the killer, but in terms of gameplay, only a select few enjoy when their opponent gives up haha) for making a strategic choice based on survivor mistakes. That said, I know the issue everyone wants to focus on is heavy/consistent slugging and bleeding out as a time waster. One thing I think people have gotten correct, is that it should be a survivor choice. Not something that happens automatically when there are 4 slugs (because then it becomes a win con, making the issue worse, see mori finisher). Something of this sort should become usable when 4 survivors are incapacitated, be activated by the survivors, and still be slow enough to give teammates with second chance perks like Unbreakable enough time to turn the game around. As a sort of random side note, something I’ve been chewing on is the sort of hypocritical catch 22 we all sort of catch ourselves in when the killer is slugging. When the pettiness starts coming to the surface and we start crawling as far and as unpredictably from where we were downed. “If the killer is gonna waste my time, I’m gonna… get this! waste their (my) time.” It feels nice sometimes, but as a killer, sometimes a person just spends 4 minutes on the ground and you WANTED to find them so badly but nope, crawled away while I was hooking other people. So anyway, while I doubt this is something anyone would find agreeable enough to implement, I’ve thought about having a sort of basekit deerstalker that activates on the same conditions as the ‘bleed out faster’ ability. Just once everyone is incapacitated, here they are, feel free to hook them.
I think theres 2 types of slugging Slugging for pressure, and slugging to be a dick Slugging for pressure is what you were doing here, even if this example is the most extreme it could be. Slugging to be a dick is self explanatory
No such thing slug, tunnel, camp, get all hooks, and Win, but if they do all that not to win but to just annoy survivors then that can be annoying but surv get annoyed any way and I laugh and be toxic to them if they teabag me click and whatnot
@@THE_HORSEYY you are the issue in the community, stop making shit us vs them, its childish. If you are actively trying to annoy the other players, you are a dick. Plain and simple.
I don't think that this is toxic but it could be an unhealthy META, as taking agency/choice away from either side isn't great. Just like how the old Eruption/Call of Brine META wasn't toxic, but it was unhealthy because it took options away via the Incapacitated status effect. Same with some survivor METAs/stuff in the past that hasn't been overtly toxic, but was unhealthy. I think in moderation, slugging and even camping or tunneling, is fine as a strategic move, but putting all your eggs in one basket (all slug, hard tunnel, etc.) could be unhealthy for the game even if it isn't explicitly toxic/bm'ing.
I doubt they can do much about it considering how perks like flashbang BGP, dying on pallets, still exists. Adding base kit UB would be a huge nerf to the bottom half of the killer roster, while other killers like blight can easily shake it off as a minor setback.
Knock out is indeed climbing up in population and utility. All thanks to recent changes around hooks: Why should I expose myself to BT, DS, OTR, deli, anticamp, 70 hook stages for doing the objective while I can win with 4 good chases in a row via slugging
I think as someone who plays both killer and survivor slugging, even in a “non toxic way” I still think it’s very unhealthy to the game… It makes playing both sides pretty boring. It makes killer to easy and it makes playing survivor boring!
@@nojams42 I don't think people who also paid for the game wants to lay on the floor for 5 minutes being able to do nothing. Sure there's counters to things like this but who wants to run the same build every match just to counter a play style that is slowly becoming every match?
I think slugging one or two survivors and then go for hooks is alright but the moment you try to go for the 4th and they aren't actually in front of you, then I think it's actually toxic and very unhealthy (and boring) some killers who are snow ball characters kinda need to slug in the right moment. After all slugging is just a way to put pressure even if it's shitty one
I went against a guy who was slugging with singularity a couple days ago, using a similar build and the same brown addon, but had a different second addon, was aids but he didn't 4 man slug, he did slug to get a lot of hook stages though, so I guess he wasn't as bad
I think one of the main factors that makes it frustrating is the fact that it absolutely banks on solo-q. 4 mans and such can actually stand a chance and counter knock out, but theres not much soloq can do to counter knock out with no comms. I've gone against slug build wraiths and the night and day difference between when I'm playing with a 4 man or playing solo/with a duo is insane and just feels wrong asoefjaoifjs. Especially when soloq teammates can barely process game mechanics to begin with
Admitedly the RPD game was kinda why killers shouldnt be so confortable with slugging, sure if you try to get it early sure but after a while they were literaly just bleeding out on the floor waiting and that sucks, as a killer main i understand the need for slugging but if you can get the game after a while go pick up so they can also play the game. As a killer main i know survivors dont forgive killers, like i know most survivors wont bat an eye if a killer get cero hooks in a game, but that said i still think that staying on the floor for so long cant be fun. At the end of the day is all about balance in the mentality of the players and hoping that everyone just want to have a fun game.
I mean Singularity is a snowball character so he kinda acts like oni where when he has the situation to find a quick down then he can and definitely should do it to get an upper hand
there should be a mechanic where if you have been bleeding out for too long that you can press a button to teleport onto a hook or something to counter bleeding out. I see the issues with this I am just making an idea. Maybe also a mechanic to give the killer you aura if your on the ground and they can't find you.
@@The_Scryer killers like Trapper wouldn't get much out of it since their slow but the typical top tiers with insane movement get a whole lot so i don't really know if implementing it base would be balanced
We had teleporting hooks for events, and ppl were mad about it. But it allowed the killer to put u on the hook faster and he didn't have to slug u to chase someone else but ppl cried about flash light saves etc so it was discontinued.
Yeah I totally agree. I would honestly just hook those two survivors in the first game and do light slugging with this build going for the 4 k slug or trying so hard for it is imo cringe and not very exciting maybe I am just hook coded
@@justhit6673Well at least the game is over, getting 4 man slugged is embarrassing as is, just shows how bad that you guys are, but in an instance where you do get 4 man slugged it has to be boring after a couple times
No shit, it's a bug with the lighting? I legit thought I was going schizo when I tp'd two days ago and my midwich turned into the abyss by dropping three or four color waves. Love you Coco, thank you for the content! :)
I really enjoy running an exposed build on Singularity--Friends til the End, Make Your Choice, Starstruck and Surge for gen defense. I run the Nano Gel and the Soma Family Photo.
After being left on the ground for a minute you can fully recovey from the dying state. This is a simple mechanic that will actually let the survivors play the game if left slugged for some time.
I think first down unbreaks will just get countered by killers playing them to second and then slugging. Postpones but doesn't remove the issue ultimately. Unbreakable + Choice to Let Go after 2 minutes on the floor.
A choice to give up would be amazing considering how many killers slug for the 4k on the last two. I end up dcing because a killer is willing to leave me or someone else on the ground so no body can get hatch.
Idk if you do build suggestions but i had this one build for singularity that ive been trying to get to test out myself but its taking me ages to grind for it lol. The perks are game afoot, rapid brutality, furtive chase and friends till the end. Addons are the slower overclock stun penalty and the hinder survivor when tping or extended overclock mode. The idea is you hook the obsession then tp to the new obsession begin a chase and slipstream them and try to get “stunned” by a pallet to gain the speed boost from game afoot and hit the survivor to gain as much speed as possible without straying from normal singularity gameplay.
Also to combat bleed outs i would say remove the bleed out timer but give the option for survivors to dc if they want to if bled out for too long and replace themselves with a bot so the chance for a comeback is possible
this vid reaffirmed to me that knockout needs to be removed from the game. it is literally impossible to use without being toxic. its just a toxic perk that makes it so survivors never get to play the game. its a bore for both roles
I always use slug build but mine is different. First two perk same but deerstalker not necessarily. I use (I forgot the name) Singularity perk slows everyone around when down a survlvor. And fourth Fearmonger blinds survivors while repair gen Add ons (yellow add-on I forgot the name) Blinds survivors when 12m near a biopod. And any add-on make you someone easily take down. With this build survivors always blind. When down a survivor if someone around easy down if nobody around they can't know anything about where is the downed survivor. Even if near the downed survivor they can't see him aura if there is a biopod nearby. (You can put biopds around the downed survivor) Very very OP build. I didn't remember any game I lost.
I’ve gone against this build many times on multiple killers and i’d say the most unbearable thing about it and worth disconnecting for is that if the killer is not good at ending chases quickly they will stretch the match for too long for like 40+ minutes. The game just feels like a healing simulator at that point
I think if they add basekit unbreakable it should be only active if the killer Leaves you on the ground for 30+ seconds but the time should pause if your team is near you like the unhook timer to make it fair
I've always thought it was a problem that Slipstream stays on slugs, but goes away on hooks, what does that tell the user? Either gone on down or only through EMP, this really shouldn't happen
Same with Freddy’s power. Hes punished for hooking fast by increasing tp cooldown, and his chase power is disabled. He’s better off slugging especially if you bring the pallet addons.
The only way this would be toxic is if you decide to not hook anybody and just leave em to die from bleed out. This is a strat that alot of ppl would consider being toxic but it's how the killer plays
Heres something I wrote recently prompted by a Reddit post. My thoughts on an optional method of bleeding out faster to avoid wasting time on the ground. For starters, a feature to allow survivors to bleed out faster can ONLY apply when all survivors are in the dying or hooked states. It must be a LOST game if we’re implementing features for players to just leave, otherwise it faces the same issues as ragequit ‘solutions’ like removing the dc penalty. Like it or not, there are situations where it is detrimental to the killer to insta pick a survivor. The game shouldn’t punish killers (not in a strategic way, obviously if a survivor is dying faster that a positive for the killer, but in terms of gameplay, only a select few enjoy when their opponent gives up haha) for making a strategic choice based on survivor mistakes. That said, I know the issue everyone wants to focus on is heavy/consistent slugging and bleeding out as a time waster. One thing I think people have gotten correct, is that it should be a survivor choice. Not something that happens automatically when there are 4 slugs (because then it becomes a win con, making the issue worse, see mori finisher). Something of this sort should become usable when 4 survivors are incapacitated, be activated by the survivors, and still be slow enough to give teammates with second chance perks like Unbreakable enough time to turn the game around. As a sort of random side note, something I’ve been chewing on is the sort of hypocritical catch 22 we all sort of catch ourselves in when the killer is slugging. When the pettiness starts coming to the surface and we start crawling as far and as unpredictably from where we were downed. “If the killer is gonna waste my time, I’m gonna… get this! waste their (my) time.” It feels nice sometimes, but as a killer, sometimes a person just spends 4 minutes on the ground and you WANTED to find them so badly but nope, crawled away while I was hooking other people. So anyway, while I doubt this is something anyone would find agreeable enough to implement, I’ve thought about having a sort of basekit deerstalker that activates on the same conditions as the ‘bleed out faster’ ability. Just once everyone is incapacitated, here they are, feel free to hook them.
@@YagamiTrala *bad faith alert* The user you're replying to is obviously talking about the toxicity of swf team strategies that present even less counterplay than slug builds. Not to mention all the clicking and teabagging survivors do every other game. Killers don't have to abide by the survivor's entitled attitude and their stupid fkn rulebook for their opponents.
@@CptnCardboard this IS counterplay to SWFs. just try to win, dont moralize playstyles, like the poster does. if u can get pressure through slugging, do it. who cares if the dominated opponents think its "ok". the rules of the game think its ok, thats what matters.
I don't think the problem is you're using a tactic to win the game, I think the problem is that the devs enable and sometimes even encourage a tactic that sucks for the other side.
i'm a solo q survivor main - i don't think there should be anyhting like basekit unbreakable at all - i don't consider slugging toxic, just boring, but i don't dc - i rarely meet any mass slugging or any build to back it up (i wouldn't mind once in a while, it's something fresh at that point). in most cases it's just slugging for 4k so it's a very different match altogether (and they will drag it out for 4 minutes if they must) - this playstyle is definitely viable because once you got 2 slugs it's basically impossible to find gen time
What makes it scummy is the end result. Did they earn a lot of points? Did they have a chance to play? Was it fun for them? If all of these answers are "No", it's scummy. Just my opinion.
It's really similar to a build I use! I added that singularity perk to slow down survs, so i slug and then i know where slowed survs are XD with jolt. The counter is spreading around all map, but it's quite fun (evil)
"Im not intentionally bleeding them out" while refusing to hook them is literally intentionally bleeding them out if the survivors are picking each other up
It’s even better when you use jolt, don’t ask how I know… Edit: also slugging is very nice to build into, as you completely avoid 2nd chance perks like dead hard, decisive, off the rec, deli, etc…
I think that even if it can't be technically considered "toxic", it still remains an unfun and scummy way to play, as while survivors don't stay on the ground for long, they are still forced to simply not be playing the game. unless the opponent is also having fun, or at least being able to play the game, I am not having fun against them.
this could potentially be more fun than old 3 gen hux, at least as strong, which means it'll garbage once survivors start massively dc'ing against it and BHVR guts the killer to appease them
unbreakable at bleed out percentages should probley work fine. like at 50% or 25% bleed out it would dissuad alot of the slugging without impacting most killers and games.
Toxic? Perhaps not. Healthy for the game? I don't think so. This is what I would describe as cheesy. It requires less skill to implement than defend against. It's not fun for either party IMO. Yeah it's effective, but is it fun? Also it's way fewer hooks, which is arguably the "win" condition. You've set your own win condition, ending the game ASAP
HOOO! Brother. Now you talkin abaout. Just the two first perks are part of my favorite build with this killer. "Knock out / Infectious fright / Forced Hesitation / "
That was pretty scummy hopefully they implement base kit unbreak after this since they already added the mori system which is already incentivizing slugging.
@@Tatt3dWonTV That's not the system incentivizing slugging, that's just slugging everyone being a good way to end the game generally speaking. If you down all 4 on live you'd have quite literally the same experience with the yellow offering. At that point, arguably the bleed out timer also incentivizes slugging since you can just slug everyone and then bleed them out.
@@SuperHouseofcards the mori system still incentivizes it because you get a huge bloodpoints bonus the yellow Mori does not do that as of right now. The bleed out bar does not incentivize slugging. It is the only means to keep a game from going an hour slugged on the ground
I actually had this exact idea for a build a couple months ago 😅 I found it also works really well if you swap the brown addon with the one that gives blindness to slipstreamed survs
So this is my opinion, is THIS particular playstyle toxic? Debatable, but when you get games like the last one in the video, it can be hard to tell. Sure you weren't INTENTIONALLY bleeding them out, but how can the survivors tell? To them, you waiting until everybody is downed to hook them looks the same as downing everybody to bleed them out if you have a hard time downing everybody. And while the playstyle may not be toxic, it is definitely not fun in my opinion for either side. Survivors can't do much except try to avoid being downed and then SLOWLY getting themselves up IN HOPES that a teammate gets to them, and killers more or less nd chases instantly. Not to mention the shorter game time. I just don't like this playstyle personally even if it is DEBATABLY toxic.
Isn't that exactly like being hooked? i don't see how being slugged is more boring that being hooked. If anything, your team has more time to pick you up and you have more potential chases as you can be downed and slugged more than 3 times. I feel like the dbd community has a very sheep like mentality. They hear a content creator saying something and they will start repeating it without even being able to explain why they believe that.
@@orion2544 Being on the hook progresses the game such as allowing you unhook yourself or go next match. It also gives you perks like Off the Record, DS, Dead Hard, etc. Slugging slows the game down by a large margin and gives no returns to survivors except staring at the ground. Also, a sizable chunk of the playerbase don't even watch DBD content creators, so I don't know where you got that weird idea from.
@@LoveThomas07 so slugging is boring because it denies you perks and because it doesn't allow you to be a shitty teammate? Using this logic, not tunnelling is also boring because the survivor won't have the chance to use the numerous anti tunnel perks
@@LoveThomas07 i don't see how slugging progresses the game less than hooking. You slug and incapacitate a survivor with the goal of winning the game. You hook and incapacitate a survivor with the goal of winning the game.
@@orion2544 You literally just answered your own question, you care more about winning the game than about the other side not being bored. At least with tunneling, it gives INTERACTION. Being on the ground means you literally don't do anything. Yes, it's not your job to make survivors have fun, but you can't be surprised when the killer queue times slowly get longer and longer as they have been getting for the past year. EDIT: I saw you commented that 4 man bleeding out is a "Valid playstyle". If you genuinely believe that, then we have nothing to discuss.
i think the solution is to switch the bleed out time to a stand up timer because if you slug someone to bleed out they deserve a second chance and if they get downed again then they die because if they down again their timer already ran out
What if not base kit unbreakable but it be like unhooking yourself and you have a chance to get back up and that alter to how it would fit during the match
craaazy how u used the exact build i use for singularity for a while. the only difference is that I use forced hesitation instead of deerstalker, I recommend u to try it.
Their is nothing wrong with slugging the problem with slugging is obviously solo queue but that’s mostly a problem with perks a perk like your running knockout this perk is such a problem and i have no idea why this perk isn’t reworked yet you cant see teammates that are downed at all even when the timer is over you cant see them not only that this perk causes bleedouts.
I feel like playing like this is very toxic, it incentives bad gameplay that’s boring for both sides while being to easy for the killer and hard to counter for the survivors, yes they can have unbreakable or the Johnna perk but those perks can be countered by kicking or run out fast! While the killer can just down everyone again quickly! They should add unbreakable basekit if 2 or more survivors are on the ground, seems fair.
as bad as this is, at least it's not using soma family photo to remove endurance from someone who just got unhooked and using that as a chance to tunnel
only works against otr, not ds. they also get distance when u goop them, so they still get value. otr is easily a top 3 perk, its only natural its weaker against some killers than others, just like ds is. if u have so much trouble getting tunneled, you should either get better at looping, or play with a more coordinated team.
@@Flotter-Flo I normally don't have a problem with being tunneled. My main point is that the addon should be reworked, bc right now the only thing it's useful for is tunneling, and a hit and run strat where you goop people and give them deep wound, then go for someone else. But ngl that strat isn't even that good
@@celik479 no it's a purple addon, it used to be singularity's best addon, it gave you haste during overclock, however it also reduced the duration of overclock by an amount, I think. Now it gives hindered for 3 seconds when gooping a survivor and also puts them in deep wound, which can be used to counter certain anti tunneling perks
Join my Discord! discord.gg/rknJCwth
bro remembered his password
FINALLY
The solution to bleed out is giving the survivors the option to just bleed out fast if they choose to, so they die in like 10 seconds. Cuz getting rid of bleed out entirely is stupid since that is often part of the pressure a killer has when slugging, if the survivor doesnt bleed out, the survivors can just leave one slugged and do gens cuz he wont die anyway and unbreakable is certainly not the play, in high mmr it happens that one survivor isnt hooked until the very end of the match and if that guy gets unbreakable for no reason while the killer is searching for him to hook is just gonna be abyssmal.
Slugging is a tool of pressure for the Killer and shouldnt be made worse, survivors should just have the option to escape being kept hostage when all are slugged. Which would be granting the ability to just completely bleed out instantly at like 50% bleed out timer or so
i don’t think BHVR wants giving up to be a mechanic in the game. Even self unhook attempts are meant to be a last ditch effort, not to die faster.
Most they could or would do is when your recovery bar is max you can try to get up by yourself and have it work like self unhooks
@@crunchycakegaming1507 yeah i get that, but when all are slugged, no ubs in the game, then they should have the option to bleed out instantly, cuz at that point the bleed out function has no use. Giving survivors second chances on everything they do that can fuck up your whole game cuz of one gamble shouldnt be a thing imo
@@saikyue4462 there’s an issue with all forms of any anti-slug system they could implement. If you’re soloq you could have unbreakable but your teammate doesn’t know that and decides to give up. Even if you’re in a SWF it becomes an issue for the killer because the killer gets more bloodpoints for sacrifices and if the killer just got a snowball half his blood points from that game are gone. Even if the killer really is just slugging everyone and not hooking to waste everyone’s time it’s 4 minutes at most, less if you’ve been downed before. They could implement faster bleedout but instant bleedout is never coming to the game and should never come
Here’s something I posted as a comment but I’m gonna put it here as well because it’s relevant :)
Heres something I wrote recently prompted by a Reddit post.
My thoughts on an optional method of bleeding out faster to avoid wasting time on the ground. For starters, a feature to allow survivors to bleed out faster can ONLY apply when all survivors are in the dying or hooked states. It must be a LOST game if we’re implementing features for players to just leave, otherwise it faces the same issues as ragequit ‘solutions’ like removing the dc penalty. Like it or not, there are situations where it is detrimental to the killer to insta pick a survivor. The game shouldn’t punish killers (not in a strategic way, obviously if a survivor is dying faster that a positive for the killer, but in terms of gameplay, only a select few enjoy when their opponent gives up haha) for making a strategic choice based on survivor mistakes. That said, I know the issue everyone wants to focus on is heavy/consistent slugging and bleeding out as a time waster.
One thing I think people have gotten correct, is that it should be a survivor choice. Not something that happens automatically when there are 4 slugs (because then it becomes a win con, making the issue worse, see mori finisher). Something of this sort should become usable when 4 survivors are incapacitated, be activated by the survivors, and still be slow enough to give teammates with second chance perks like Unbreakable enough time to turn the game around.
As a sort of random side note, something I’ve been chewing on is the sort of hypocritical catch 22 we all sort of catch ourselves in when the killer is slugging. When the pettiness starts coming to the surface and we start crawling as far and as unpredictably from where we were downed. “If the killer is gonna waste my time, I’m gonna… get this! waste their (my) time.” It feels nice sometimes, but as a killer, sometimes a person just spends 4 minutes on the ground and you WANTED to find them so badly but nope, crawled away while I was hooking other people. So anyway, while I doubt this is something anyone would find agreeable enough to implement, I’ve thought about having a sort of basekit deerstalker that activates on the same conditions as the ‘bleed out faster’ ability. Just once everyone is incapacitated, here they are, feel free to hook them.
No because then it isn't a punishment. It isn't just a tool to be used tactically; on occasion it is used to exact justice.
I think theres 2 types of slugging
Slugging for pressure, and slugging to be a dick
Slugging for pressure is what you were doing here, even if this example is the most extreme it could be.
Slugging to be a dick is self explanatory
No such thing slug, tunnel, camp, get all hooks, and Win, but if they do all that not to win but to just annoy survivors then that can be annoying but surv get annoyed any way and I laugh and be toxic to them if they teabag me click and whatnot
@@THE_HORSEYY you are the issue in the community, stop making shit us vs them, its childish. If you are actively trying to annoy the other players, you are a dick. Plain and simple.
It's all smart to do.
@@MissionControlDRGsmart doesn’t mean fun. It’s smart to play Dracula, but that doesn’t mean it’s fun to play against him
@@tscole12What are you talking about😂
I don't think that this is toxic but it could be an unhealthy META, as taking agency/choice away from either side isn't great. Just like how the old Eruption/Call of Brine META wasn't toxic, but it was unhealthy because it took options away via the Incapacitated status effect. Same with some survivor METAs/stuff in the past that hasn't been overtly toxic, but was unhealthy.
I think in moderation, slugging and even camping or tunneling, is fine as a strategic move, but putting all your eggs in one basket (all slug, hard tunnel, etc.) could be unhealthy for the game even if it isn't explicitly toxic/bm'ing.
I doubt they can do much about it considering how perks like flashbang BGP, dying on pallets, still exists. Adding base kit UB would be a huge nerf to the bottom half of the killer roster, while other killers like blight can easily shake it off as a minor setback.
Knock out is indeed climbing up in population and utility. All thanks to recent changes around hooks: Why should I expose myself to BT, DS, OTR, deli, anticamp, 70 hook stages for doing the objective while I can win with 4 good chases in a row via slugging
Exactly, but that goes against survivors rules
I think as someone who plays both killer and survivor slugging, even in a “non toxic way” I still think it’s very unhealthy to the game… It makes playing both sides pretty boring. It makes killer to easy and it makes playing survivor boring!
i think if you paid for the game you can play however u feel and there are counters to slugging they are just very unlucky
@@nojams42 I don't think people who also paid for the game wants to lay on the floor for 5 minutes being able to do nothing.
Sure there's counters to things like this but who wants to run the same build every match just to counter a play style that is slowly becoming every match?
whether u like it or not your gonna have “good” and “bad” matches just gotta learn to cope
I play both sides equally and best believe imma play how I want. I try learning a new killer n get t bagged and gen rushed so imma play toxic too :p
I think slugging one or two survivors and then go for hooks is alright but the moment you try to go for the 4th and they aren't actually in front of you, then I think it's actually toxic and very unhealthy (and boring) some killers who are snow ball characters kinda need to slug in the right moment. After all slugging is just a way to put pressure even if it's shitty one
I love the range addon for the cams, it makes singularity so much more fun
so if you guys ever wonder why every singularity main is slugging now, thank cocolatte
I went against a guy who was slugging with singularity a couple days ago, using a similar build and the same brown addon, but had a different second addon, was aids but he didn't 4 man slug, he did slug to get a lot of hook stages though, so I guess he wasn't as bad
@@hellskitchen7806was it that brown addon and a green syringe looking one?
@@Sceneric_the Brown addon and a yellow addon that does the same thing as the brown
I think one of the main factors that makes it frustrating is the fact that it absolutely banks on solo-q. 4 mans and such can actually stand a chance and counter knock out, but theres not much soloq can do to counter knock out with no comms. I've gone against slug build wraiths and the night and day difference between when I'm playing with a 4 man or playing solo/with a duo is insane and just feels wrong asoefjaoifjs. Especially when soloq teammates can barely process game mechanics to begin with
Admitedly the RPD game was kinda why killers shouldnt be so confortable with slugging, sure if you try to get it early sure but after a while they were literaly just bleeding out on the floor waiting and that sucks, as a killer main i understand the need for slugging but if you can get the game after a while go pick up so they can also play the game.
As a killer main i know survivors dont forgive killers, like i know most survivors wont bat an eye if a killer get cero hooks in a game, but that said i still think that staying on the floor for so long cant be fun.
At the end of the day is all about balance in the mentality of the players and hoping that everyone just want to have a fun game.
If singularity becomes infamous for slugging i will find you
He already is. Almost every singularity i play already does this shit
I mean Singularity is a snowball character so he kinda acts like oni where when he has the situation to find a quick down then he can and definitely should do it to get an upper hand
there should be a mechanic where if you have been bleeding out for too long that you can press a button to teleport onto a hook or something to counter bleeding out. I see the issues with this I am just making an idea. Maybe also a mechanic to give the killer you aura if your on the ground and they can't find you.
Just make deerstalker basekit after some time
Deerstalker basekit if you're more than 36 meters away from the downed person perhaps.
@@The_Scryer killers like Trapper wouldn't get much out of it since their slow but the typical top tiers with insane movement get a whole lot so i don't really know if implementing it base would be balanced
Counters are bad for the game.
We had teleporting hooks for events, and ppl were mad about it. But it allowed the killer to put u on the hook faster and he didn't have to slug u to chase someone else but ppl cried about flash light saves etc so it was discontinued.
Regardless of toxicity, it doesn't seem very fun for either side. You do you though!
Its fun for killers
@@justhit6673 I suppose some folks may find that fun. I only play Killer and do not find that entertaining ('cause you don't get to play the game)!
Yeah I totally agree. I would honestly just hook those two survivors in the first game and do light slugging with this build going for the 4 k slug or trying so hard for it is imo cringe and not very exciting maybe I am just hook coded
This isnt necessarily toxic but also whats the fun in doing this imo, eventually after you do it a few times it will become a snoozefest
Well I wonder that when survivors wait at the exit gate after they won, but after so many years it still doesn't bore them
@@justhit6673Well at least the game is over, getting 4 man slugged is embarrassing as is, just shows how bad that you guys are, but in an instance where you do get 4 man slugged it has to be boring after a couple times
No shit, it's a bug with the lighting? I legit thought I was going schizo when I tp'd two days ago and my midwich turned into the abyss by dropping three or four color waves.
Love you Coco, thank you for the content! :)
omg is this a cocolatte video on my feed
hello
Honey, wake up, Chocolatte has discovering an insane build for 4k slugging and posted it on youtube
I really enjoy running an exposed build on Singularity--Friends til the End, Make Your Choice, Starstruck and Surge for gen defense.
I run the Nano Gel and the Soma Family Photo.
After being left on the ground for a minute you can fully recovey from the dying state.
This is a simple mechanic that will actually let the survivors play the game if left slugged for some time.
Dad is home
😈
Quick update: Used this build once, alrdy had 3 ppl DC on me. GG, I guess you were right.
I think first down unbreaks will just get countered by killers playing them to second and then slugging. Postpones but doesn't remove the issue ultimately.
Unbreakable + Choice to Let Go after 2 minutes on the floor.
A choice to give up would be amazing considering how many killers slug for the 4k on the last two. I end up dcing because a killer is willing to leave me or someone else on the ground so no body can get hatch.
Idk if you do build suggestions but i had this one build for singularity that ive been trying to get to test out myself but its taking me ages to grind for it lol.
The perks are game afoot, rapid brutality, furtive chase and friends till the end. Addons are the slower overclock stun penalty and the hinder survivor when tping or extended overclock mode.
The idea is you hook the obsession then tp to the new obsession begin a chase and slipstream them and try to get “stunned” by a pallet to gain the speed boost from game afoot and hit the survivor to gain as much speed as possible without straying from normal singularity gameplay.
Also to combat bleed outs i would say remove the bleed out timer but give the option for survivors to dc if they want to if bled out for too long and replace themselves with a bot so the chance for a comeback is possible
this vid reaffirmed to me that knockout needs to be removed from the game. it is literally impossible to use without being toxic. its just a toxic perk that makes it so survivors never get to play the game. its a bore for both roles
I always use slug build but mine is different.
First two perk same but deerstalker not necessarily. I use (I forgot the name) Singularity perk slows everyone around when down a survlvor.
And fourth Fearmonger blinds survivors while repair gen
Add ons (yellow add-on I forgot the name)
Blinds survivors when 12m near a biopod.
And any add-on make you someone easily take down.
With this build survivors always blind. When down a survivor if someone around easy down if nobody around they can't know anything about where is the downed survivor. Even if near the downed survivor they can't see him aura if there is a biopod nearby. (You can put biopds around the downed survivor)
Very very OP build. I didn't remember any game I lost.
I’ve gone against this build many times on multiple killers and i’d say the most unbearable thing about it and worth disconnecting for is that if the killer is not good at ending chases quickly they will stretch the match for too long for like 40+ minutes. The game just feels like a healing simulator at that point
I think if they add basekit unbreakable it should be only active if the killer Leaves you on the ground for 30+ seconds but the time should pause if your team is near you like the unhook timer to make it fair
I've always thought it was a problem that Slipstream stays on slugs, but goes away on hooks, what does that tell the user?
Either gone on down or only through EMP, this really shouldn't happen
Same with Freddy’s power. Hes punished for hooking fast by increasing tp cooldown, and his chase power is disabled. He’s better off slugging especially if you bring the pallet addons.
The only way this would be toxic is if you decide to not hook anybody and just leave em to die from bleed out. This is a strat that alot of ppl would consider being toxic but it's how the killer plays
I may use this build every now and then. The only time, and I mean the ONLY time I'll bleed em out, is if they are a bully squad.
slugging like this is way too strong, when survivors can't even pop a gen something's wrong.
Basekit UB is also too strong. If a killer can’t hook because they risk flashes, or stuns then something’s wrong.
if everyone can play like Cocolatte, sure, but not everyone can play like that even have the build and same map. :)
@@lonetiger0774low-key you gotta be honestly garbage as fuck if you can't look at a wall when you pick up someone
Heres something I wrote recently prompted by a Reddit post.
My thoughts on an optional method of bleeding out faster to avoid wasting time on the ground. For starters, a feature to allow survivors to bleed out faster can ONLY apply when all survivors are in the dying or hooked states. It must be a LOST game if we’re implementing features for players to just leave, otherwise it faces the same issues as ragequit ‘solutions’ like removing the dc penalty. Like it or not, there are situations where it is detrimental to the killer to insta pick a survivor. The game shouldn’t punish killers (not in a strategic way, obviously if a survivor is dying faster that a positive for the killer, but in terms of gameplay, only a select few enjoy when their opponent gives up haha) for making a strategic choice based on survivor mistakes. That said, I know the issue everyone wants to focus on is heavy/consistent slugging and bleeding out as a time waster.
One thing I think people have gotten correct, is that it should be a survivor choice. Not something that happens automatically when there are 4 slugs (because then it becomes a win con, making the issue worse, see mori finisher). Something of this sort should become usable when 4 survivors are incapacitated, be activated by the survivors, and still be slow enough to give teammates with second chance perks like Unbreakable enough time to turn the game around.
As a sort of random side note, something I’ve been chewing on is the sort of hypocritical catch 22 we all sort of catch ourselves in when the killer is slugging. When the pettiness starts coming to the surface and we start crawling as far and as unpredictably from where we were downed. “If the killer is gonna waste my time, I’m gonna… get this! waste their (my) time.” It feels nice sometimes, but as a killer, sometimes a person just spends 4 minutes on the ground and you WANTED to find them so badly but nope, crawled away while I was hooking other people. So anyway, while I doubt this is something anyone would find agreeable enough to implement, I’ve thought about having a sort of basekit deerstalker that activates on the same conditions as the ‘bleed out faster’ ability. Just once everyone is incapacitated, here they are, feel free to hook them.
the lighting change also happens to me on twins when i switch back from victor
I don't think this gameplay is more toxic than SWFs, which are toxic throughout the entire game and use toxic expressions in the endgame chat.
SWF is toxic 💀
Playing with your mates very toxic yup, imagine having friends :
@@YagamiTralayou can play alone too,many noobs that use the excuse “I have friends” because they sucks alone
@@YagamiTrala *bad faith alert*
The user you're replying to is obviously talking about the toxicity of swf team strategies that present even less counterplay than slug builds. Not to mention all the clicking and teabagging survivors do every other game. Killers don't have to abide by the survivor's entitled attitude and their stupid fkn rulebook for their opponents.
@@CptnCardboard this IS counterplay to SWFs. just try to win, dont moralize playstyles, like the poster does. if u can get pressure through slugging, do it. who cares if the dominated opponents think its "ok". the rules of the game think its ok, thats what matters.
I don't think the problem is you're using a tactic to win the game, I think the problem is that the devs enable and sometimes even encourage a tactic that sucks for the other side.
i'm a solo q survivor main
- i don't think there should be anyhting like basekit unbreakable at all
- i don't consider slugging toxic, just boring, but i don't dc
- i rarely meet any mass slugging or any build to back it up (i wouldn't mind once in a while, it's something fresh at that point). in most cases it's just slugging for 4k so it's a very different match altogether (and they will drag it out for 4 minutes if they must)
- this playstyle is definitely viable because once you got 2 slugs it's basically impossible to find gen time
What makes it scummy is the end result. Did they earn a lot of points? Did they have a chance to play? Was it fun for them? If all of these answers are "No", it's scummy. Just my opinion.
i'm doing this for a few months now, good thing you shared. People not ready for this most of the time.
It's really similar to a build I use! I added that singularity perk to slow down survs, so i slug and then i know where slowed survs are XD with jolt. The counter is spreading around all map, but it's quite fun (evil)
9:44 I gotta say I actually love this lighting a lot
"Im not intentionally bleeding them out" while refusing to hook them is literally intentionally bleeding them out if the survivors are picking each other up
Intentionally bleeding them out would be leaving them all on the ground after i down them all.
It’s even better when you use jolt, don’t ask how I know…
Edit: also slugging is very nice to build into, as you completely avoid 2nd chance perks like dead hard, decisive, off the rec, deli, etc…
A new cocolatte video, good day ❤
First game was definitely hard slugging tho when 2 bodies were on top of each other in a corner of the map
My day just got better
I hook two ppl consistently and the other two I don't really have pressure with, I leave slugged with this perk.
I think that even if it can't be technically considered "toxic", it still remains an unfun and scummy way to play, as while survivors don't stay on the ground for long, they are still forced to simply not be playing the game. unless the opponent is also having fun, or at least being able to play the game, I am not having fun against them.
Naw this ain't the Singularity anymore, this is the Slugularity
Glad to be back watching my favorite singularity main
this could potentially be more fun than old 3 gen hux, at least as strong, which means it'll garbage once survivors start massively dc'ing against it and BHVR guts the killer to appease them
unbreakable at bleed out percentages should probley work fine. like at 50% or 25% bleed out it would dissuad alot of the slugging without impacting most killers and games.
Toxic? Perhaps not. Healthy for the game? I don't think so. This is what I would describe as cheesy. It requires less skill to implement than defend against. It's not fun for either party IMO.
Yeah it's effective, but is it fun? Also it's way fewer hooks, which is arguably the "win" condition. You've set your own win condition, ending the game ASAP
HOOO! Brother. Now you talkin abaout. Just the two first perks are part of my favorite build with this killer. "Knock out / Infectious fright / Forced Hesitation / "
It doesn’t matter, to me slugging is pretty much the equivalent of immersive gen rushing. They’re both annoying to go against
That was pretty scummy hopefully they implement base kit unbreak after this since they already added the mori system which is already incentivizing slugging.
The new mori system doesn't kick in until everyone but one person is dead. It has nothing to do with slugging. That was the previous implementation.
@@SuperHouseofcards ive already done it just slug everyone hook 3 and then mori the last one.
@@Tatt3dWonTV That's not the system incentivizing slugging, that's just slugging everyone being a good way to end the game generally speaking. If you down all 4 on live you'd have quite literally the same experience with the yellow offering.
At that point, arguably the bleed out timer also incentivizes slugging since you can just slug everyone and then bleed them out.
@@SuperHouseofcards the mori system still incentivizes it because you get a huge bloodpoints bonus the yellow Mori does not do that as of right now. The bleed out bar does not incentivize slugging. It is the only means to keep a game from going an hour slugged on the ground
@@Tatt3dWonTV Then the only slugging it incentivizes is for the 4k, which is a hatch problem more than a mori system sort of deal, realistically.
Try Knockout, Forced Hesitation, Rapid Brutality, and Save the Best on Singularity to get even better results
i dont think flashbang is toxic ngl its actually a rlly fair perk imo
I actually had this exact idea for a build a couple months ago 😅 I found it also works really well if you swap the brown addon with the one that gives blindness to slipstreamed survs
Lore accurate singularity
I do not find this toxic at all. It is a valid strategy in the game.. so.. well I am going on my Larry to test this build at myself =) Cheers
basekit unbreakable but you have to be on the ground for 60 seconds to get it
So this is my opinion, is THIS particular playstyle toxic? Debatable, but when you get games like the last one in the video, it can be hard to tell. Sure you weren't INTENTIONALLY bleeding them out, but how can the survivors tell? To them, you waiting until everybody is downed to hook them looks the same as downing everybody to bleed them out if you have a hard time downing everybody. And while the playstyle may not be toxic, it is definitely not fun in my opinion for either side. Survivors can't do much except try to avoid being downed and then SLOWLY getting themselves up IN HOPES that a teammate gets to them, and killers more or less nd chases instantly. Not to mention the shorter game time. I just don't like this playstyle personally even if it is DEBATABLY toxic.
Isn't that exactly like being hooked? i don't see how being slugged is more boring that being hooked. If anything, your team has more time to pick you up and you have more potential chases as you can be downed and slugged more than 3 times. I feel like the dbd community has a very sheep like mentality. They hear a content creator saying something and they will start repeating it without even being able to explain why they believe that.
@@orion2544 Being on the hook progresses the game such as allowing you unhook yourself or go next match. It also gives you perks like Off the Record, DS, Dead Hard, etc. Slugging slows the game down by a large margin and gives no returns to survivors except staring at the ground. Also, a sizable chunk of the playerbase don't even watch DBD content creators, so I don't know where you got that weird idea from.
@@LoveThomas07 so slugging is boring because it denies you perks and because it doesn't allow you to be a shitty teammate? Using this logic, not tunnelling is also boring because the survivor won't have the chance to use the numerous anti tunnel perks
@@LoveThomas07 i don't see how slugging progresses the game less than hooking. You slug and incapacitate a survivor with the goal of winning the game. You hook and incapacitate a survivor with the goal of winning the game.
@@orion2544 You literally just answered your own question, you care more about winning the game than about the other side not being bored. At least with tunneling, it gives INTERACTION. Being on the ground means you literally don't do anything. Yes, it's not your job to make survivors have fun, but you can't be surprised when the killer queue times slowly get longer and longer as they have been getting for the past year.
EDIT: I saw you commented that 4 man bleeding out is a "Valid playstyle". If you genuinely believe that, then we have nothing to discuss.
Can you upload more please? I have friends that would sell a kidney to get to your lvl of success, and you have 20k subs.
i think the solution is to switch the bleed out time to a stand up timer because if you slug someone to bleed out they deserve a second chance and if they get downed again then they die because if they down again their timer already ran out
I only run slugging with singularity but I use cremated remains addon
i thought i was crazy for seeing different shades
slug , surge, knockout, sloppy, rapid, soma crew do keep mending the survivors, can run any other addon
What if not base kit unbreakable but it be like unhooking yourself and you have a chance to get back up and that alter to how it would fit during the match
Bro found Spies+Deerstalker Billy but for Hux
On 24th can you see the new skin, he only gets one every blue moon
craaazy how u used the exact build i use for singularity for a while. the only difference is that I use forced hesitation instead of deerstalker, I recommend u to try it.
Please make a video on strategies versus coordinated SWF. Those are the only groups Singu still struggles against.
I have a comp video where I'm playing against an extremely coordinated swf, doesn't get any better than that.
tried this a few games and the a guy called p diddy cussed at me lol
ive always felt slugging is better for singularity since hooking then removes the infection, same idea goes for freddy... not that i would do it
This build looks wholesome to me
My goat has returned
Love the content, but I would also love to see the post match chat to see any drama that happens lol because I imagine you collected salt
best beginner build for singularity??
Singularity is just Twins 2.0 sometimes 😭
Glad you're back
Their is nothing wrong with slugging the problem with slugging is obviously solo queue but that’s mostly a problem with perks a perk like your running knockout this perk is such a problem and i have no idea why this perk isn’t reworked yet you cant see teammates that are downed at all even when the timer is over you cant see them not only that this perk causes bleedouts.
I feel like playing like this is very toxic, it incentives bad gameplay that’s boring for both sides while being to easy for the killer and hard to counter for the survivors, yes they can have unbreakable or the Johnna perk but those perks can be countered by kicking or run out fast! While the killer can just down everyone again quickly! They should add unbreakable basekit if 2 or more survivors are on the ground, seems fair.
3 gen larry is far from over. I'd rather vs this than that
Would you like to play against this I think should be the question when you think about if this is toxic
What if bhvr put dead hard, unbreakeable and decisive strike base kit i think i could use that in most of games
As a Hux enjoyer: Damn
Caurophobia or third seal make excellent replacements! You can also consider using live wires or cremated remains to great effect with this!
That seems very strong, but im not gonna play like this bc it doesnt look like its healthy for the game
as bad as this is, at least it's not using soma family photo to remove endurance from someone who just got unhooked and using that as a chance to tunnel
İsnt that photo a map offering?
@@celik479 it's a singularity addon wym
only works against otr, not ds. they also get distance when u goop them, so they still get value. otr is easily a top 3 perk, its only natural its weaker against some killers than others, just like ds is. if u have so much trouble getting tunneled, you should either get better at looping, or play with a more coordinated team.
@@Flotter-Flo I normally don't have a problem with being tunneled. My main point is that the addon should be reworked, bc right now the only thing it's useful for is tunneling, and a hit and run strat where you goop people and give them deep wound, then go for someone else. But ngl that strat isn't even that good
@@celik479 no it's a purple addon, it used to be singularity's best addon, it gave you haste during overclock, however it also reduced the duration of overclock by an amount, I think. Now it gives hindered for 3 seconds when gooping a survivor and also puts them in deep wound, which can be used to counter certain anti tunneling perks
First down unbreakable could work but then what to do with no mither and unbreakable itself
HELL YEAH BROTHER
Oh I saw you last month on Herman the doctor live stream. I miss you so much 🥺🥺❤❤
I should main Singularity based on my name.
Ohhimmamakanameformyselfyet
This kind of build is a solo team shreder, you dont have a chance in hell, with pretty much any killer, but with singularity is specially fucked hehe
more like a snowball build
Slungularity
No wonder you said how hard it takes to make these videos, they keep on dc'ing from your slugs 😭😭😭
best build 10/10