So much crap on youtube these days, most of the self-proclaimed enthusiast experts have no idea what they are talking about. I like your style, well informed researched information. Keep up the good work mate, you are miles ahead of everyone.
this is a physics issue and it isn't actually as hard as you think. The tension between your vehicle and the anchor point is horizontal - the only force pulling the rope (or whatever piece has ripped off) down to the ground is the force of gravity acting on the weight of the rope. The majority of the force will be horizontal with only tiny downward force, so the rope will travel a long horizontal distance before traveling enough vertical distance to hit the ground and stop....if you add a dampner then you introduce a strong downward force only - there is no tension on the dampner because it is simply looped over the rope, it is not being pulled as part of the system. As such, if something gives then the downward force of the dampner will act immediately driving it to the ground - the heavier the dampner (i.e. filled with sand/dirt) the stronger force it will produce once it's hit the ground further reducing the horizontal travel. The big question though is about placement - and you're only half right about placing the dampner half way along. If you only have a single dampner, then you are right, this is likely the best place to put it as you don't know which end will break, so you don't know which direction you're trying to prevent. But if something heavy breaks - say the bowshackle itself has broken or the actual anchor point on your vehicle or whatever has ripped off - it isn't the rope itself that's broken, but what it's attached to that has failed. Now this is a huge problem if you've put the dampner in the middle - because now you have a rope with a weight at the end and a weight in the middle. This is how a trebuchet works - and that's what will happen to the rope - the downward force applied to the middle of the rope will cause the weighted end to head upwards in an arc pattern - so rather than smash into the front of your vehicle and wreck ur lights or bonnet or grill.....it's coming through your windscreen. This is infinitely more dangerous for obvious reasons - you've turned vehicle damage into a potential fatality. So, with this said, simple physics says you should add as much downward weight as possible (i.e. fill the dampners with dirt), and place them at 1/3 and 2/3rds respectively, as you said. This way if a component of the vehicle breaks off from one end or the other the trebuchet mechanism does happen but with a shorter rope so it won't make it to the opposing vehicle, and if something snaps in the middle, u've only got the weight of the rope itself traveling horizontally so the vertical force from the dampner will stop it as well. moral of the story - you need 2 dampners for every pull, and if ur not using them ur playing Russian roulette. Lots of people make it through that game without a scratch....in fact about 5/6 people make it through....but that 1/6....you don't wanna be that guy....
Blake you’re right about the trebuchet effect. All the broken rope examples without dampers in this video all piled up at the attachment points. With synthetic rope it seems obvious to not use any dampeners, and just let the broken rope hit your bumper, or the tree. I use rated attachment points, and never use dampeners.
I'm thinking you should do as Ronny Dahl said, put them around 1/4 from each end, closer to the shackles on the end, so it has a better chance to catch the heaviest part.
How about using soft shackles instead of bow shackles. Ill use them for days over bow shackles. Kinda goes the same when some people out there attach to ropes and use a bow shackle. Use a soft shackle and its alot safer.
Blake, that was very well thought out and explained and, I believe, is the safest and best places to put the dampeners (filled with heavy material such as sand or dirt) when winching with Steel Wire Rope! Makes a great deal of sense although, we all know some situations become very complicated and when things go bad, they usually do in an instant. Think out the job before starting to winch, go slow and stay as far away from the front and back, straight lines of the cables (including turns from snatch blocks). In the worst of situations, throw a heavy blanket or large carpet across the windshield directly in front of you. I loved your trebuchet analogy, it explains the danger in a way we can visualize very well!
I just watched his video on hard/soft shackles and your analogy with a hard shackle giving a trebuchet effect would only exist if you use really crappy shackles, proper ones are way stronger than the part that'll break. If you have a crack or anything in a shackle/anchor point you'd discard it immediately so I think that trebuchet thingy is purely theoretical.
I have no real fear of a synthetic winch rope failing. As per the comments below, it would be good to see how the Dampeners act when a steel wire, shackle or attachment point fails.
@@troopygino no, it wouldn't. In rigging it's Flexible Steel Wire Rope, anyone "classing" it as synthetic doesn't know what they're talking about and their advice treated with caution.
Another top video Michael! I'm only behind the wheel of a 'soft roader' yet I still find myself watching all your 4x4 videos. Great content... and you're to blame when I update my 4WD to something more capable and I head off the main drag!
I'm so glad to see somebody put this to test, has driven me nuts when people think that a broken winch rope just drops, its pretty simple, for every reaction there is a opposite and equal reaction. Love your work mate, keep it up
I haven't seen anyone do this before. I've wondered how effective they were. It looks like they would be a necessary piece of equipment when using wire winch cables. Thank you!
I cannot believe anyone could thumbs down this or any of your videos. I love you and what you do. You are an inspiration to me and I’m sure many other humans!
Great video! You have taken the common sense approach. I think two bags filled with dirt is ideal. The one third and two thirds is great By the l took advantage of your offer with the door step and it's awesome so thanks for that. I love your down to earth approach to things and it's awesome. Keep up the fantastic work. Chris from Australind.
This is the best video I've seen on winch dampeners. Nicely done... I'll be using 2 x weighted dampeners next time. People might 'poo poo' this as being overly safe but if everyone goes home after a winch rope snaps then it's done its job. Great videos
Thanks for making this clip Mate I learnt that dynema rope still recoils I thought it would not react like that Would’ve good to compare the steel rope on a winch just to compare but to complain at all great job mate Cheers
Great video Mike , done by yourself, good job, no bull , you look so natural on your videos, keep up the good work, looking forward to your next one, cheers Louis
That was really interesting. Thanks for your efforts. In the beginning the shackle goes flying all the way into the tree. I think thats the worst thing that could happen: Something small and heavy still attached to the rope goes flying. The dyneema rope alone would not do much damage I think. You clearly showed that loading the dampener is so important to make it work well. In too many videos we see them used empty and therefore much less usefull.
Good information and very well presented. Nothing beats a good practical demo to prove a point. Safest method obviously 2 Dampeners weighted as you said 1/3 or 1/4 of the way from each end. But if someone doesn't own a Winch dampener use anything similar eg swag bag tool bag heavy blanket or even an article of clothing that can be weighted to help minimise the risk. Mate this channel is going to go a long way and should be a go-to for anyone wanting to get into camping/4wding.
Another good job. I like the two dampener method at one third intervals, no matter where the break all cable/rope lengths are short. Always use full of dirt/sand as empty is basically just a flag.
I keep a couple of exercise ankle weights in my vehicle, to keep things from rolling around. It's also nice to have them to stabilize my camera and/or lighting tripods when it's windy. Now I'm wondering how they would work as winch cable/rope dampeners. I completely LOVE having things that serve multiple purposes. Especially when they're extremely cheap!
Well I'm very new to owning a forby anf i learned something today. Bonza vid mate keep up the fine work yiur doing. Your fast gaining a reputation as the guy who talks through his smile.😁👍
Hi Michael back again, Yep that was good. Good clear description of salient points (the important bits). Actually I think combined this your current video & Ronny's (on snapping winch things) should be seen by anyone who goes 4x4 ing. Perhaps it's usually far more dangerous for anyone standing nearby, than behind the wheel. Although flying shackles/wire ropes etc don't stop at windscreens either. And please please do NOT hook up to a tow ball !. Yet another important and well done video. Oh and henceforth the T-shirt shall be known as the "Winch Cable Rope Blue One". :)
Great video presentation! Clearly the winner is the bag filled its dirt IMO. Just a thought though when helping to recover another vehicle - what if the recovery point on the other vehicle fails and the bow shackle at that end comes flying back at the recovery vehicle? I see a follow up video coming! Thanks again. Keep up the great work. Cheers. Jeff
Genius. Thanks for sparing everyone a lot of time, money, and possible injury. Great, great stuff. I'm also grateful no animals came out of the bush and ate you during the process.
Nice work mate , the thing about cables and ropes is they do not always break where you expect them too . As a young bloke I used to drive bin trucks with walk in bins , The bins where dragged onto the back of the trucks , with bins with a lot of load on them, On occasion cables would snap , And the frayed cable end would whip around at high speed , you would be in a world of pain if one happened to hit you. But we could winch from inside the cabin so the risk was minimal. As a good rule of thumb I'd say not only put the dampers on , but keep people in the area and yourself as far away from loaded cables as possible .
Michael, great you addressed the proper use of cable dampeners, rather than repeating "opinion" - facts always win. Just to clear things up a bit, these items generally fail at fatigue points - frayed ropes, fatigued bow shackles etc. so the risk of any one of those items breaking is really unknown. There will be some correlation with the items rating when new, but fatigue will have more to do with time, number of uses and general treatment of these components. If you really are stressing some component beyond its specific rating, then you need your head read, on the other hand failures occur because everything deteriorates with time and use, so by all means match the bits in terms of rating, don't over stress anything beyond the weakest links' limit and be prepared for fatigue failure - hence the dampeners and clearing people from the area.
Thanks for the demo! Very helpful. 4:34 I would reckon that if you loaded that brown blanket with dirt or rocks, you might have had a very heavy projectile headed into the tree. A reason to use such a device in the middle and not towards the weak end.
Not gonna lie, spent a bit trying to decide if this guy was selling either dampeners or rope, but it turns out he just likes destroying stuff. Good man.
I don't even have a winch, but one day I will. And I will know how to use it, and use it safely, thanks entirely to Australian channels. I don't think I've ever once encountered discussions of winching on any American channels. Thanks for this useful demonstration and explanation.
And another excellent job, well thought out and set up, well narrated, good effort all round. I have such respect for your art that I won’t even point out that it’s a ‘damper’ rather than a ‘dampener’, unless you’re dampening (wetting) something 😁. Sorry, OCD thanks to the nuns beating spelling & grammar into me .... 😢 Dunno how you find the time to shoot & edit so many videos but keep it up! 👍👍👍
Tightly edited, no useless info or rambling...top notch!!
So much crap on youtube these days, most of the self-proclaimed enthusiast experts have no idea what they are talking about. I like your style, well informed researched information.
Keep up the good work mate, you are miles ahead of everyone.
get yourself a dtu training manual.there going cheap as they disbanded.might learn something worth while.
@@phantomwalker8251 ????
I would love to see the same experiment with a steel winch cable.
The physics will be the same.
@@thewiredfox2691 Well, the greater weight of the steel cable would imply more momentum (force).
Steel cable stretches more than synthetic.
I was waiting for someone to say that. Steel cable can take your leg off.
@@AussieHunta or your head!
this is a physics issue and it isn't actually as hard as you think. The tension between your vehicle and the anchor point is horizontal - the only force pulling the rope (or whatever piece has ripped off) down to the ground is the force of gravity acting on the weight of the rope. The majority of the force will be horizontal with only tiny downward force, so the rope will travel a long horizontal distance before traveling enough vertical distance to hit the ground and stop....if you add a dampner then you introduce a strong downward force only - there is no tension on the dampner because it is simply looped over the rope, it is not being pulled as part of the system. As such, if something gives then the downward force of the dampner will act immediately driving it to the ground - the heavier the dampner (i.e. filled with sand/dirt) the stronger force it will produce once it's hit the ground further reducing the horizontal travel.
The big question though is about placement - and you're only half right about placing the dampner half way along. If you only have a single dampner, then you are right, this is likely the best place to put it as you don't know which end will break, so you don't know which direction you're trying to prevent. But if something heavy breaks - say the bowshackle itself has broken or the actual anchor point on your vehicle or whatever has ripped off - it isn't the rope itself that's broken, but what it's attached to that has failed. Now this is a huge problem if you've put the dampner in the middle - because now you have a rope with a weight at the end and a weight in the middle. This is how a trebuchet works - and that's what will happen to the rope - the downward force applied to the middle of the rope will cause the weighted end to head upwards in an arc pattern - so rather than smash into the front of your vehicle and wreck ur lights or bonnet or grill.....it's coming through your windscreen. This is infinitely more dangerous for obvious reasons - you've turned vehicle damage into a potential fatality.
So, with this said, simple physics says you should add as much downward weight as possible (i.e. fill the dampners with dirt), and place them at 1/3 and 2/3rds respectively, as you said. This way if a component of the vehicle breaks off from one end or the other the trebuchet mechanism does happen but with a shorter rope so it won't make it to the opposing vehicle, and if something snaps in the middle, u've only got the weight of the rope itself traveling horizontally so the vertical force from the dampner will stop it as well.
moral of the story - you need 2 dampners for every pull, and if ur not using them ur playing Russian roulette. Lots of people make it through that game without a scratch....in fact about 5/6 people make it through....but that 1/6....you don't wanna be that guy....
Blake you’re right about the trebuchet effect. All the broken rope examples without dampers in this video all piled up at the attachment points. With synthetic rope it seems obvious to not use any dampeners, and just let the broken rope hit your bumper, or the tree. I use rated attachment points, and never use dampeners.
I'm thinking you should do as Ronny Dahl said, put them around 1/4 from each end, closer to the shackles on the end, so it has a better chance to catch the heaviest part.
How about using soft shackles instead of bow shackles. Ill use them for days over bow shackles. Kinda goes the same when some people out there attach to ropes and use a bow shackle. Use a soft shackle and its alot safer.
Blake, that was very well thought out and explained and, I believe, is the safest and best places to put the dampeners (filled with heavy material such as sand or dirt) when winching with Steel Wire Rope! Makes a great deal of sense although, we all know some situations become very complicated and when things go bad, they usually do in an instant. Think out the job before starting to winch, go slow and stay as far away from the front and back, straight lines of the cables (including turns from snatch blocks). In the worst of situations, throw a heavy blanket or large carpet across the windshield directly in front of you.
I loved your trebuchet analogy, it explains the danger in a way we can visualize very well!
I just watched his video on hard/soft shackles and your analogy with a hard shackle giving a trebuchet effect would only exist if you use really crappy shackles, proper ones are way stronger than the part that'll break. If you have a crack or anything in a shackle/anchor point you'd discard it immediately so I think that trebuchet thingy is purely theoretical.
Wow, very nice man! good to see some actual experimentation and logic!
I have no real fear of a synthetic winch rope failing. As per the comments below, it would be good to see how the Dampeners act when a steel wire, shackle or attachment point fails.
I'm with you. Synth rope is dangerous. SWR is lethal.
Watch Ronny dahl he has an awesome vid about it
@@rickfranke4886 If we are talking about the same video, already have. Really good to see, but he dosent use any dampers.
You know a steel cable would also be classed as "synthetic" lol ?
@@troopygino no, it wouldn't. In rigging it's Flexible Steel Wire Rope, anyone "classing" it as synthetic doesn't know what they're talking about and their advice treated with caution.
you are constantly well informed and a great communicator. thanks for taking the time to explain this stuff to nus all.
Great demo. Nice showing a slow motion replay. No words needed - video footage says it all. Well done
Thanks for demonstration. Filled with dirt most diffidently. Thanks for your time and hard work. Great job!
Another top video Michael! I'm only behind the wheel of a 'soft roader' yet I still find myself watching all your 4x4 videos. Great content... and you're to blame when I update my 4WD to something more capable and I head off the main drag!
The work you put into this was phenomenal. Keep it up and thank you!
I'm so glad to see somebody put this to test, has driven me nuts when people think that a broken winch rope just drops, its pretty simple, for every reaction there is a opposite and equal reaction. Love your work mate, keep it up
Very informative video, just buying gear for the first time in the USA. Thanks for taking the time to do this test setup!
I haven't seen anyone do this before. I've wondered how effective they were. It looks like they would be a necessary piece of equipment when using wire winch cables. Thank you!
I’m so glad I have two winch dampers, this video is incredible!
Informative man, you can see where soft shackles take a bit of the hazard out of a recovery
Thanks for going through the effort to keep everyone informed! Legend
I cannot believe anyone could thumbs down this or any of your videos. I love you and what you do. You are an inspiration to me and I’m sure many other humans!
Excellent informative info champ, your camera work and explanations are first class, don't stop doin what your doin, really enjoying your channel.
Love the comment made by flashback5391 at the end 😂😂😂🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
😆😆😆
😂🤣😂🤣
Great video, fascinating to be able to view each option and compare. Thanks for producing the video and uploading.
Great video! You have taken the common sense approach. I think two bags filled with dirt is ideal. The one third and two thirds is great By the l took advantage of your offer with the door step and it's awesome so thanks for that. I love your down to earth approach to things and it's awesome. Keep up the fantastic work. Chris from Australind.
Well done! I agree that the middle of the line is probably best as you never know where the line will fail (or if it will fail).
Greetings from Texas!
Thanks man for this experiment and the effort cost you spent to educate us in real way.
This is the best video I've seen on winch dampeners. Nicely done... I'll be using 2 x weighted dampeners next time. People might 'poo poo' this as being overly safe but if everyone goes home after a winch rope snaps then it's done its job. Great videos
Champion!! Great vid and thoroughly tested. Killin it!!
Thanks for making this clip Mate I learnt that dynema rope still recoils I thought it would not react like that
Would’ve good to compare the steel rope on a winch just to compare but to complain at all great job mate
Cheers
nice to see big changes , many years ago in northern Canada a friend of mine had his left arm removed by a cable when he was recovering his 4x4
That was an excellent video, thanks Michael. Keep up the good work.
Great video Mike , done by yourself, good job, no bull , you look so natural on your videos, keep up the good work, looking forward to your next one, cheers Louis
Legend has it that even if he was a high school maths teacher he would still smile. Once again teaching me a thing or two about 4x4 driving.
Thank's for the excellent video. Hope those guys out there who don't use these see this video and learn something.
Awesome video man, definitely answered all the questions and theories!👍🏼
Smarter Every Day brought me here...
Best video on this topic. Thanks for sharing it, I was looking for a comparison like this one.
Awesome video mate. Iv always wondered how those bags work. And you've made it really clear with great demonstrations. Seek adventure👍
Thanks for the demo I’ve learnt a good lesson
Awesome Video Mate thanks for the great content. From New Zealand 👍🇳🇿
That was really interesting. Thanks for your efforts. In the beginning the shackle goes flying all the way into the tree. I think thats the worst thing that could happen: Something small and heavy still attached to the rope goes flying. The dyneema rope alone would not do much damage I think.
You clearly showed that loading the dampener is so important to make it work well.
In too many videos we see them used empty and therefore much less usefull.
Gr8 demo and clear explanation.
Awesome video! Really show how it works! I saw one video where they wrapped a recovery strap along the middle third or so.
Nice one Micheal well thought out👍😎
It’s about time someone did this? Thought I was going to have to do this haha. Good vid cheers
An actual guide. Great video
Nice one mate - thanks.
A pair of old footy socks filled with sand also does a good job (and costs nothing)
Good information and very well presented. Nothing beats a good practical demo to prove a point. Safest method obviously 2 Dampeners weighted as you said 1/3 or 1/4 of the way from each end. But if someone doesn't own a Winch dampener use anything similar eg swag bag tool bag heavy blanket or even an article of clothing that can be weighted to help minimise the risk. Mate this channel is going to go a long way and should be a go-to for anyone wanting to get into camping/4wding.
great test Michael, I have always used two dampeners, I thought maybe a bit of overkill but it works for me, love your research Michael
Great to see everything in action. Great video thanks for sharing
Another good job. I like the two dampener method at one third intervals, no matter where the break all cable/rope lengths are short. Always use full of dirt/sand as empty is basically just a flag.
I keep a couple of exercise ankle weights in my vehicle, to keep things from rolling around. It's also nice to have them to stabilize my camera and/or lighting tripods when it's windy. Now I'm wondering how they would work as winch cable/rope dampeners. I completely LOVE having things that serve multiple purposes. Especially when they're extremely cheap!
That's exactly what I use. Keep two in my recovery gear.
Awesome video I didn't know the correct way and you proved the best way.
Grate to see these results More informed the safer we all are
Great content as usual :D keep up the good work.
Well I'm very new to owning a forby anf i learned something today. Bonza vid mate keep up the fine work yiur doing. Your fast gaining a reputation as the guy who talks through his smile.😁👍
Hi Michael back again,
Yep that was good. Good clear description of salient points (the important bits).
Actually I think combined this your current video & Ronny's (on snapping winch things) should be seen by anyone who goes 4x4 ing.
Perhaps it's usually far more dangerous for anyone standing nearby, than behind the wheel. Although flying shackles/wire ropes etc don't stop at windscreens either.
And please please do NOT hook up to a tow ball !.
Yet another important and well done video.
Oh and henceforth the T-shirt shall be known as the "Winch Cable Rope Blue One".
:)
Always interesting and definitely informative... thanks for sharing
Good stuff man love your channel keep up the good vids
Very informative. Love your videos.Keep up the good work
Very cool video, thanks for sharing!
Enjoyable as always cheers mate
Great video presentation! Clearly the winner is the bag filled its dirt IMO. Just a thought though when helping to recover another vehicle - what if the recovery point on the other vehicle fails and the bow shackle at that end comes flying back at the recovery vehicle? I see a follow up video coming! Thanks again. Keep up the great work. Cheers. Jeff
Brilliant! Thanks so much, very informative keep up the good work.
great test! thanks for sharing
Thank you for the video. Very helpful.
Awesome testing!!!
Genius. Thanks for sparing everyone a lot of time, money, and possible injury. Great, great stuff. I'm also grateful no animals came out of the bush and ate you during the process.
I would love to see you do the same situation with a soft shackle set up
Best information video on winch damps on the internet. Full information given
Very interesting to see thanks for the video mate
Nice work mate , the thing about cables and ropes is they do not always break where you expect them too .
As a young bloke I used to drive bin trucks with walk in bins ,
The bins where dragged onto the back of the trucks ,
with bins with a lot of load on them,
On occasion cables would snap ,
And the frayed cable end would whip around at high speed , you would be in a world of pain if one happened to hit you.
But we could winch from inside the cabin so the risk was minimal.
As a good rule of thumb I'd say not only put the dampers on , but keep people in the area and yourself as far away from loaded cables as possible .
Australian dudes are always so happy about stuff!
Bro......You are better than PBS.....I could watch your videos ALL DAY
Michael, great you addressed the proper use of cable dampeners, rather than repeating "opinion" - facts always win.
Just to clear things up a bit, these items generally fail at fatigue points - frayed ropes, fatigued bow shackles etc. so the risk of any one of those items breaking is really unknown. There will be some correlation with the items rating when new, but fatigue will have more to do with time, number of uses and general treatment of these components.
If you really are stressing some component beyond its specific rating, then you need your head read, on the other hand failures occur because everything deteriorates with time and use, so by all means match the bits in terms of rating, don't over stress anything beyond the weakest links' limit and be prepared for fatigue failure - hence the dampeners and clearing people from the area.
Great to watch, thanks for this 👍
Howabout if any of the hardware fails, i.e flying shackles and such. Nice vid!
Your video was very helpful THANKS for sharing 👌 👍
Thanks for the demo! Very helpful. 4:34 I would reckon that if you loaded that brown blanket with dirt or rocks, you might have had a very heavy projectile headed into the tree. A reason to use such a device in the middle and not towards the weak end.
I’ve ordered 2. Finally starting to to get my self recovery kit put together
Nice job Mate!
Great video, thanks for the info!
Very informative thank you.
Another great vid! Thank You!
best 4x4 channel around
Not gonna lie, spent a bit trying to decide if this guy was selling either dampeners or rope, but it turns out he just likes destroying stuff. Good man.
Thanks so much brother 👍👍👍
Cool test - thanks!
Right on, brother.
I don't even have a winch, but one day I will. And I will know how to use it, and use it safely, thanks entirely to Australian channels. I don't think I've ever once encountered discussions of winching on any American channels. Thanks for this useful demonstration and explanation.
Awesome video mate keep up the good work.
great strait forward demo. not too much of this kind of good info on these subjects. thanks.
Nice work mate..
Great content mate. Thanks
Great testing video buddy 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Love the videos mate keep up the great work.
And another excellent job, well thought out and set up, well narrated, good effort all round. I have such respect for your art that I won’t even point out that it’s a ‘damper’ rather than a ‘dampener’, unless you’re dampening (wetting) something 😁. Sorry, OCD thanks to the nuns beating spelling & grammar into me .... 😢
Dunno how you find the time to shoot & edit so many videos but keep it up! 👍👍👍
Wet a dampener, cook a damper, sleep in a camper.....
Good video...Helpful
Great video again mate, thankyou
Thank you very much
Love your work
Many thanks for spending ropes for our safety..