Why did it fail? BMW V10 TEARDOWN | Engine Autopsy
Вставка
- Опубліковано 18 сер 2021
- We disassemble a failed V10 engine to find a unique failure! Not the ordinary rod bearing issue that usually happens. Come with us on another engine journey as Tony and Laurence talk tech on this V10 beast.
Check out our website: www.brintechcustoms.com.au/ - Авто та транспорт
best thing MCM ever did was getting Tony in to look at the honda engine - it means this channel gets some well deserved exposure and i can now binge through the videos :D
I always enjoy and appreciate guys like Tony who actually know what they are talking about!
This was my engine
A few notes
Had around 130k on it
I did around 30k on it
Oil change every 5k in my ownership
Engine wasn’t cleaned when removed
The engine had in its life 2 different tunes, the last one was a well known tuner overseas, i dont recommend running any tunes
Also had carbon plenum from germany which split!
At the time of damage i was driving some winding roads, appoached a roundabout and gave it a good blip before braking
Felt something let go, assumed it was plug or coil as this happened before
Brintech have been fantastic to deal with and in my opinion the only shop id trust to build s65 or 85 motor
Short block from germany was $55kau so not an option really lol
My engine during my ownership was always treated with respect and warmed up slowly by driving as per the manual!
Thanks for the info!! Out of interest, what did the replacement engine cost? I'm interested in buying an M6 but this scares me 😳
Sorry to hear that mate, in this engine oil change should be done every 2k...running all the way to 5k wears down all racing focused components...
what oil were you running brand and wieght ?
@@fkfakemusic3172No way, if it were direct injection it could be, but being port injection it does not suffer from fuel dilution in the oil. 5k kilometers of real 100% synthetic premium oil (according to German legislation, not the fake North American one) is enough.
I watch videos like this for the same reason some folks watch TV. Pure entertainment. I will never do anything even remotely close to this, I have zero need for the information. But I'm completely entertained and content watching it! German engineering is beautiful. And watching people that are this familiar with the engineering, very enjoyable!!
Hooray.....at long last......AUSSIES. Yes, you have to love that accent and their grammar is much better than most Americans. I have subscribed as I thoroughly enjoy engine teardowns and analysis. Cheers.
Really enjoy listening to an expert who appreciates the engineering behind these engines and understands all of the issues.
First production car with a V10 was the Dodge Viper.
This was the first production sedan with v10 engine
And the Viper doesn't eat crank bearings.
@@LynxStarAuto lmao nobodys saying its better its just the first production BMW with a v10
@@LynxStarAuto rod bearings not crank bearings which is an easy fix. The viper v10 is also an old fashioned design. DOHC no VVT no anchor like weight yes.
1991 😂
Came from MCM for more Tony.
I've been in the S85/S65 community for about 11 years now and the knowledge here is remarkable!
More fantastic content from Brintech, keep it coming boys.
Tony is turning in to quite the legend. Well deserved too.
The #1 is to let the oil temp to get to normal operating temp before even thinking of going above 4K rpm !
Thanks for going through a detailed tear down. I love the S85
Great video guys, amazing engine!
And this ladies and gentlemen is why I would take my car to these guys. Absolutely phenomenal and honest craft. Well done.
Awesome information guys. Looks like this will be the best assembly/disassembly series on the internet!
Will be getting the engine out of the old man's M6 in a few months to do the bearings and the valve springs (he doesn't want one to break).
Thanks for the heads up about the timing kit screws, just checked mine and it has the same pathetic screws in there.
i had this engines 2008 -2013 everyday on my table ... with this problems :P cant see it anymore haha
Greez from munich
Love when they switch to good'ol German 😂
Extremely insightful video - that was great!
These guys are mind blowing, their knowledge is huge. Please mive to the UK so you can look after my M5!
Awesome vid, great knowledge
Awesome teardown. I've been keeping both of my s85s under a factory tune and they have been really solid the one I track has 189k miles on it now glad to see content that actually looks into them and realizes how awesome they are and that they aren't unreliable like everyone says just certain preventative services performed
glad to hear theyre treating you right. how many miles do you change bearings at?
brilliant, interesting about the big end cap wear
Very informative. cheers 👍
Awesome guys! First video watched on this chanel
Another great video
i have rebuilt this motor my self 6 years ago, spun bearing
That was a joy to watch
Hello Brintech Customs,
2nd attempt for comment, but thoroughly enjoyed the video. Many very specif items covered on S85, but....also not complete.
Removal of VANOS cam's did have the back "locking bolt" added, but not the VANOS shims to hold into position for reassembly. Very interested to see how it all comes together.
Would also have liked to see the mainline bearings. You stripped the place this far, why not check the mainlines? I have to blocks with issues!
Any bent rods or bore damage?....unfortunately for me, have found a few!
As noted, the exhaust is ARTWORK!
Cooling system: Also work of art. Bank 1 and bank 2 have there own paths...even to the radiator! It's like having two I-5's
Lifters are hydraulic buckets, not shim under. Make it easy!
No front sump drain indicates an early production model. Recommend confirming latest H.P. VANOS gears (mentioned in video, but quite important).
Cheers,
P-Chi
Very informative and intresting 👍👍
great channel, great guys, cheers
Tnk you for this video
Great Video! Enjoyed the conversation and filming. Top work.
if you have audio on 1 side a good dirty method to fix it is to make 2 audio tracks with the same audio, and set one all the way left, and one all the way right.
Highest tolerance engine ever built. I read that the oil pressure at the rod bearing was 1200 psi? WTF
Brilliant channel
A pity the failed mic wasn't replaced
Excellent.
Unfortunately i m going through this atm, rod bearings failure, waiting to open up heart of my baby and hopefully we will be able to save it
I would have thought the Dodge Viper was probably the first production car with a V10 back in 1992
You would be absolutely correct! I'll remind Tony about the big dodge 8L
First first production sedan. That’s the proper term not car but sedan. 4 doors. The m5 was the first v10 production sedan
Great video. Amazing info. One suggestion. The audio seams to be mirrored.
IN future, please take the Main line bearings out for inspection. This is a great controversial item on the S85 & sister S65 engines.....only rod bearings!
I have witnessed two S85's with stress on rear lower mains and rumors about it being worse on the S65.
Please keep us advised.
If the damage was due to lean mix, there would be signs of melting on the piston. That however looks like mechanical damage. Snapped piston ring due to higher rev limiter from ECU reflash perhaps. A closer look in the cylinder would tell more.
BMW E9 CSL batmobile with the S85 would be a hoot IMO ... I've got 2x M6 and a caged WCTC E36 so maybe one day the E36 will be a S85 hillclimb car.
What happened to the S65 year down? Would like to see how the S85 based engine differs apart from V8
Just aqiered e60 m5 with 12.500 miles on it would you still recommend having the bearings dunne with having so few miles on it as its not going to me doing lots of miles a year
how does an oil pump with two pickup tubes determine which tube to pickup from without sucking up air?
A legit amazing engine. Definitely a one-of-a-kind mill for more everyday people to be able to buy. The Lexus LFA V-10 may sing a more refined song and have even more tech baked into it, but the S85 has a great many of the 1LR-GUE's features and is far more accessible.
It's literally so different that the only features the share is the number of pistons
If I’m guessing they did this with the external oil pumps due to the problem that they had on the S62 right?
What oil should I use in my s63tu? The dealer uses 0w30. Should I switch to 0w40?
Flash tune for... More power??? In a 373kw V10 😂😂 jeeez some people hey.
It begs for more, there’s actually about 10-15% power left to be gained with decat & tune!
First production car with v10? What about the viper?
is buying a 30k mile 08 M5 a good idea ? im aware of the wear and tear
The viper was a v10 from 1992... . There's other v10s as well wayyy before the s85
Could you resleeve the cylinder?
thanks for this !! love the teardown and commentary !
left me wontering: is the actual block reusable ? possibly for a bored-out build ? or has this scrapped the blolck ?
or what videos can i watch to c more abt which parts will and wont be able to be reused from this motor ?
Block would be scrap. The block has special (fairly common now) silicon impregnating in the aluminium casing. The bores are then very specifically etched to expose the silicon bits so that the ring seals against an almost glass flat surface. The process is incredibly difficult to replicate (read impossible) outside of the factory, so most people that try repairing the scoring, try putting in sleeves. If you’re interested in how that goes, have a look at M539’s Alpina build and that will give you an idea of how “viable” that is, vs getting a used block.
@@si98justme1 wow thanks for the info !
@@si98justme1From what I understand about M539's video, the engine builder's work resulted in squiff bores (picture a cylinder with one end squeeze slightly, and the opposite end also squeezed slightly but in a perpendicular direction). I'm not sure it's correct to say that a bad bore cannot be sleeved on a modern S engine. It may have just required greater care during the sleeving process.
94' dodge had a whole line of v-10 pickups with the v-10 magnum engine
Wasnt the first production V10 the Viper?
Ok, when you build these engines, oil...10w60, or 5w50??
Awesome work! Great video! Will be upgrading my S85 engine to forged pistons. I'll be switch to Mahle oversized forged pistons at 92.5mm bore. The reason for this is cylinder 5 has a bit of deep scoring. I did the rod bearings late last year. Those were upgraded to ACL Race Series .001-inch extra clearance. I will be referring to this video for teardown sequence if needed.
@lakers 2006 BMW M5. I had to pass on my upgrade to the forged pistons since Mahle has been slow to fulfill my purchase. But I did do my own rod bearings last year... took me 33 hours. Dropping the subframe is no joke. I'd suggest getting some mechanically inclined help, renting a DIY garage for a month and using UA-cam. Go with ACL bearings with .001 inches extra clearance and everything else OEM. Check your compression with a rental compression tester from a hardware store before attempting this job. How many miles is on your M6?
Her: he's probably out there cheating
Us:
That engine had a tune?
Carrera GT V10 came out in 04
Wasn’t the Dodge Viper the first production car with a V10?
No
@@hamzamasri9471 ok so what was?
@@cd1250 It was the Viper. Gen 1 Viper was released as a '93 Viper. Gen 2 Viper came along in the '96 -'02.
Yes an archaic pushrod v10
The Viper's V10 may well have been the first V10 truck engine mounted in a "car" though.
I would bet someone uoloaded an "engine tune" to both Siemens Controllers. My 2010 M5 has crossed 87,000 miles with no tune. I use Ravenol 10W60 in the crankcase.
First factory v10 ???!
Have your heard of dodge viper ?
Looks like fuel injector failure (stuck open) ? It's known to happen on S85 and S65. I know of two occurences of similar damage due to injector failure. With all the innovative technology like ionic knock detection, there is no way for the DME to prevent damage in when this happens ? Is it a good idea to replace injectors preventatively ?
You bring up a good point. I was kind of concerned at the issue of this being unmetered air, being that it is a map sensor signal with itb's. It would literally have to be an unmetered air being sucked in underneath the number six itb only, contributing to this type of failure seems pretty not likely. Because it's so isolated to one cylinder, I think the idea of it being an injector issue is important. Especially since, they just sold this guy another engine
Also curious if anyone else has replaced injectors preventatively
@@LT64444 Check Stone Automotive's channel. He did replace them preventatively.
I'm a bit in doubt. What is the chance that I get an issue with a faulty new one ?
@@roymoorman5990 My thoughts exactly
If there would be an injector stuck open, the rod would have bent, due to "hydrolock. I have seen some cases of stuck open injector and it pushes the cilinder full of gas within a blink. I would replace S85 injectors when buying one without clear history on it.
The engine was surprisingly clean overall. Was it cleaned before you started disassembly?
No
check the oil change history, an oil ring grabbing the cylinder wall is symptom of a lubrication problem. may be wrong grade oil, or hasn't been changed enough. every 6 months or 8000 K's , that's what l go by!
Loved it, only thing I could loose is the music.
I'd bet your average long form engine teardown viewer might not be into pumping EDM mixed on top
i second this. i came for blood sweat and motor oil. not EDM
I'm guessing the block was toast ??
do think that the was run hard as in racing drag racing I have seen that ware on a engine that had several runs on it
I have a tune on my S85 should I be worried? Lol. Rod bearings done along with a lot more and 115k miles. I didn’t catch the milage on this engine, anyone know?
You shouldn’t be! Who is it from?
@@divimport2 some guys in Washington state that have a good rep.
@@user-oj6vl8io3f Don't know where you are, but I took mine to Strictly BMW in Bellevue, just had the Dinan stage1 done. Just to let it breath a bit better, I never race the car
Skip to 35:00 to see the reason for failure(rod bearing) what a surprise
The Dodge Viper was the 1st V10 in production car. Don't forget it, AMERICA!!!!!
Dodge srt-10 v-10 pickup from 2002
Where did you guys get the drain pan from that you are using in your engine stand please? If you have a part number or a company name it would really be helpful. Thank you men.
So its not clearance but load...
No, not the first ! - Dodge Viper, mid 1990's - Lemans class winner.
That’s exactly why I won’t get a map tune on my m5
here cos MCM
Call it a 10 barrel like the old 4 barrel carburetor days lol
If the engine had direct injection, that cylinder head would be completely clogged with carbon...
The Lambo v10 Came out in 2003 so it beat the BMW S85
If it had been direct injection those intake ports and the back of the valves would have been carboned up with crud. D.I. causes more problems than it alleviates.
There might be signs of detonation, it's hard to tell from the video with all the other damage, but why build such an exotic engine and use cast pistons? That's the problem. If they were forged this engine would still be serviceable.
The more systems you have the greater the chance for failure. These engines although engeneering marvels are WAY overcomplicated and unecesary to power vehicles to move people and stuff around.
Those V10 engines are well known for spinning bearing rods and destroying the engine
Such a complicated engine…
MCM Fans, Assemble!
Nice German!
Ich wusste gar nicht, dass der gute herr Deutsch spricht ^^
5w50 will save the rod bearings. 10w60 is way too thick for s65/s85
What about s54? You got any good video links that explain this?
oil thickness depends on the temp you live in... gotta think about the outside temps... hotter climates thicker oil its physics
looks like a better engine than the audi??
It takes BMW to make a naturally aspired engine brake faster than a turbo engine. In this Twilight zone that we live in today
The cause of the failure was an overseas flash ECU tune.
@@REZRCT the horror
I need to refresh my memory... but I seem to recall this is one highly unreliable engine.
Bmw warranty cars after warranty everything goes wrong with them.. overcomplicated expensive shitboxes
way too complex to my way of thinking...
Rule number one, do NOT put after market tunes on these engines, silly silly owner.
This engine is one of the worst engines ever made lol what the fuck are yous on about.
@Steve K Rod bearings, VANOS pump race ring failure, throttle body actuator failures, Idle air control failures, VANOS internal line failures, VANOS Crank gear failures, should I continue?
@Steve K ok, then go to the 99.999999999999% of the rest of the worlds owners and ask them how they are going lol seriously mate, there are dedicated websites and forums in regards to the issues with this engine. There is no argument that these engines are money pits, thats just a fact. Your argument is, its a good engine, yeh? Yeh with extensive amounts of money going into it. A good engine is one that is reliable with decent amount of performance. Take Audi’s CFSA 4.2 V8 for example. 8500rpm, requires very little maintenance other then the common issues you get with any direct injection engine. Its very tuneable and wont drain your wallet. I remember when taking my M6 for a long drive and having that worry constantly in the back of my head if a throttle body actuator was going to fail on me, or an injector was going to flood a cylinder at some point. These are the constant worries you have with these engines. Its a terrible engine ok. Iv owned one and I have learnt my lesson. Its a hunk of shit. Its absolutely nothing next to a Lamborghini Gallardo 5.0 V10. And you could argue, oh but the BMW is far cheeper lol yeh right, now that every boomer has bought every M5 and M6 and now wanting 50 to 80K for them, ya may as well just keep saving and get ya self a Gallardo anyway. There are boomers asking for 60K right now for these hunks of crap. Oh, and dont get me started on the dreadful SMG lol my god that is the worst and most unreliable gearbox ever in history lol seriously why would anyone own these cars. Even worse why would anyone by one for $60,000 lol
@@stevek1784agreed , they’re at a bargain price point in the UK at the moment and it’ll only go up. If the car was owned by proper car owners, who warm the car up properly, service it right, use the right oil, etc there would be very little issues.
Ever think about actually doing maintenance?