In my opinion... People will not hire guards unless said cargo is profitable enough to pay everyone. (Which most cargo is not.) And even if they hire guards, a dedicated pirate group like this can just focus on the cargo ship and ignore the guards. CIG has given the tools the pirates need, but given nothing to the cargo haulers. My prediction is, pirates could be so successful they will kill anyone's desire to move cargo. There is only so many times someone's going to lose 1 to 2 million before they just give up that activity and find some other way to make money.
I'd be down for a cut of like 20% profits to guard a trade ship. Sometimes its about the experience so some of the guys I play with, about 8 of us would all be there for the fun of it. Def think traders need to make friends for those big big runs. Never hurts.
@@tj7094 But you cannot balance the whole economy of a game loop to require other players to work for you for 10% of what they usually earn when doing something else. That's just nuts!
@@jackzero5639 You misunderstood me, its a % of the profits. So if you earn 1 million, you pay 200k. Literally just a ballpark. I enjoy the hell out of just playing as do my friends.. we would do escorts for fun and or cheap. You could also say, if attacked you pay a bonus for successfully defending the cargo. So a min and max. I wouldn't ever want to take 50% of someones earnings.
The risk is, at the moment, with the traders. What we need would be a player-bound reputation system. As it is, whether you are known of being a pirate is simply a matter of other people knowing your name-tag and the reputation attached to that. What we need would be a system in which people who continously attack trade-ships get something like an "official file". Though personally I'd think it'd be better to attach that not to the player but to specific ships, which in turn requires the game to recognize individual ships by ID. It would also give more importance to choosing the right ship. Anyhow, so, if a ship that is known to have been active in criminal activities apporaching, this should be dotted on your radar not in blue, but maybe yellow-ish / orange, to indicate it's likely hostility, but also state that this not necessarily a definite hostile. And such a reputation should be gained by continously partaking in criminal activities and not after the first few incidents. I mean, there'd be something to it to become an infamous pirate, with an infamous ship. Such an infamous ship also shouldn't be allowed to land anywhere. The problem is consequences. As for now the pirate does not really suffer consequences, even if you get caught and hauled into prison, you are out in no time. And putting people into the prison loop for too much time is also not a viable solution. So the negative consequences for the pirates have to be dire enough, to have them take a high risk when attacking guarded convoys / traders, but also not purely negative to remove any incentive to go for piracy.
@@VulpesChama actually sounds pretty cool. Only lawful players should be blue imo. If you go red or commit crimes within a certain time you should have a 2nd color like you explained. It would let players to at the very least be wary of you. For my friends and myself I keep a list of names from pirates in chat. We can quickly check the list of known pirates so we can avoid any beacons with them. There was a time where medical calls were all traps. Maybe take it as far as your in game chat being different from others color wise. Just so people know.. I mean the crime system is basically all knowing anyways. I don't see it being harmful.
@@dddj158 Honestly it'll probably be when reputation and consequences for ship and cargo loss come into it. IE you aren't licensed to run this commodity unless you have xyz rep tier and missions to haul it require a min party size
@@dddj158honest question, how much is your time worth to fly escorts for a trader? And then add to that the notion that you have to be three players like avenger one.
A1 already knows this as does everyone else. A 20 percent profit margin is nothing and hiring escorts would make it even less. Piracy has all the advantages and been given even more (soft death to increase profitability, slower cargo loading gives them more time to access and organize and further limiting trade routes so the fish are in a smaller barrel to shoot) have been added to the advantages pirates had over cargo ships (light fighters are pound for pound tankier than cargo ships, piracy promotes group play through profitability and no personal risk of expense to the pirate.) The combat community is the loudest in Star Citizen and they are slowing turning the game into GTA in space instead of a boring industrial game with exploration, data running, corporate espionage...etc; loops promised but wildly neglected for combat.
To be honest, trading doesn't make enough to convince my friend group to stay with me rather than doing bounty hunter/bunker missions. My response to the increase in piracy is to just use a smaller trade ship and that's fine mostly. Though I rarely get hailed to parley or any dialog, I also have noticed getting attacked a lot even when I'm empty essentially getting ganked flying in. This part I don't understand.
Yep, I'm still pretty green but when I started I just wanted to do a little rock mining. I got a Cutty Black and a Roc and proceeded to get consistently blown out of the sky. (I'm a horrible pilot) So I got the Corsair!...Now even though I'm a crap pilot I don't run into to many problems
Maybe because it is just a boring gameloop. Even if it was the most profitable gameloop in the game, I will never to trading because gameplay speaking it's boring as fuck without any interaction. Most Pirates don't do piracy for money, they do it for gameplay and interaction between players. Piracy is by nature something you do against the will of the target, it's the whole point of being pirated, you don't want that but you have to deal with it. Players do piracy because the gameloop i challenging, it's a teamwork that require different skills and role to play. So you need to train, constently adapt your strategy from patch to patch. There are strategies that pirates don't use because it makes it too easy, we like challenge. It takes hours to find a prize to claim and from the moment you've spot one, anything can go wrong between bugs from 30k and players reaction. If you're not careful enough, you'll be spotted and the pilot will bedlog before he's engaged in combat and you loose the prize... Each situation is unexpected.
Pirates killed me once in a Vulture. What for there was only a couple crates of scrap metal. I think people just like killing ships in game because they can. I went back to my dead ship and body and they left the crates. Why? Did they think I was going to dog fight them in a Vulture? When they started the attack I just backspaced because I knew I had nothing to fight for.
The best way to prevent piracy is to make it not worth it. Don’t hire escorts, hire people who will drop the cargo out the back one at a time while you’re flying around. If pirates have to spend hours flying around picking up crates one at a time, they’ll likely give up. Sure you didn’t get it, but neither did they. That’s a win
The thing is some pirates are simply bullying their pray and targets by trash talking and stuff. I had something happen to a friend yesterday where they boarded his ship, killed him, and started making fun of him before they stole all his stuff. We went after them and they resorted to ramming because they couldn't win regularly and then went on to say things like 'ramming is also a win'. These kinds of pirates are becoming more and more common in the verse, where there's no empathy whatsoever. The best pirate says nothing to you, steals your shit, makes their money and leaves. The roleplaying pirate who wants to have a good time will do things similar to what you just did here in this video, and try to make a social interaction out of it. Then you have the dicks.
At a certain point they cease to become "pirates" and more just regular "trolls." Which CIG does tacitly promote with the way things are "balanced" (or not) currently.
Let's be real here: when the servers are getting bigger and the game attrackts a much younger audience, those interactions will most likely become even more common. Gamers will be gamers, and you're not gonna change that by crying on spectrum. That's why you need scouts; That's why you need protection; That's why you need to be vigilant.
The possibility of running into anyone is so unlikely, being security is so boring. Without more npc pirates I don't think there are the incentives to sit in a turret for hours. Case in point, how often do you enjoy running security? It doesn't feel fair to blame the player base for desperately trying to find some way to enjoy the game.... Obviously piracy is part of the game and should give us emergent gameplay.... But at the moment the game is so empty the only ones playing are solo players. That's fine, but there is also no high sec space for them.
Tbh piracy is one of the most engaging gameplay loops. Wanna cargo run? Looting in a pirate group while being hunted down by bounty hunters is a hell of a rush for that. Dogfight? ... well piracy is always PVP so it's go that in spades. Solo or group play? Piracy works for both and can become super intricate on both sides. Hacking and electronics? Well I think piracy is the only ones rn that really deal with that on a regular basis. Salvaging? Well salvage the wrecks you cause. The only things not covered rn is mining and even then when part manufacturing comes into play I'm sure any big pirate org is gonna have a dedicated team to just supply the team with everything they need instead of buying it or stealing it from somewhere si the mining will come into play eventually
I run my C2 full of Byrle solo. Run between Microtech and Crusader. Where it is bought cheapest and sold for the most. Makes just about 400k per run. I can do 3 of those in just over an hour. I run solo because I'm greedy and have no friends! 🙂So, I have to minimize the initial risk. Know your environment. Any interdiction ships in the area, move on automatically. Those abandoned ships, check the tree lines and do your best to make sure no one is hiding out. Never use the cargo doors to enter/exit your ship. Use the ladder or elevator. Minimizes the risk of someone inviting themself onto your ship. Never leave your doors open. If possible, before you take off, make sure your quantum drive is spooled and locked. If it won't let you, find an OM marker or something in orbit and lock onto that so you are ready to git as soon as it clears. If you do get interdicted, turn around and head to the nearest armistice zone. Stay high enough in atmosphere so that if you do get soft deathed, your ship doesn't survive the crash. (That just minimizes the cargo that can be recovered, less for the bad guys.) Or you can self destruct before you are soft deathed. The equivalent of combat logging which takes away all the fun. Not recommended. And last if it your thing, you can hope to negotiate a mutually acceptable extortion price.
Not enough profits to pay someone to make it worth their time. No means of secure game recruitment besides asking in Global which opens up all kinds of extra risk. Even if you do pay someone, most experienced pirate groups will crush your 1 escort anyway so in the end it doesn't really matter
Why fly people this way? Easy ... Escorts are useless against organized pirates .... and unorganized pirates are no danger. As long as you can't insure cargo, there's no reason to take escorts. The Risk lies 100% on the side of the trader ... no matter if they have an escort or not. The majority is ready for piracy... but the game isn't ready for it. Pirates get mechanic after mechanic to make their life easier... but something easy as an insurance isn't there. Technically the only reasonable response is to self-destruct and get back into your seat for another trade route ... simply because that's more profitable than to deal with pirates in ANY way. Get CIG to actually balance Risk and Reward and you'll see much different behavior. Edit: Besides that... To encounter a pirate you have to be super stupid tho ... ... like following the "best" trade route.
Why self destruct? It will reduce your loaded cargo. So the pirate will take less time to transfer it into their cargo hold. So they will have more time to hunt you down again.
I agree with much of what you're saying. The only thing I would like to add is: join an Org of good repute or form one yourself. That way you can pool money into building that insurance system you're asking for.
@@professorrhyyt3689 I'm not a fan of large orgs or god forbid lead one. That just causes Spectrum-level Drama all the time. Granted, It's the only way to find reliable escorts tho. But honestly.... You have to really be stupid to run into pirates. So there's no reason anyway. It would just make PvP encounters of any type as a trader much less of a loss if there was proper insurance. It would shut up most people who complain about PvP and add additional willing participants to the pool, which benefits PvP players. ... So insurance would be a win for everyone involved.
@@vonrosphe3098 Wouldn't matter, because you wouldn't use the same route again (unless you're really really stupid and take the same route) And even if pirates finish faster ... An organized group will already be on the hunt when the others are still transferring cargo.
Death of a spaceman man? You gonna be made of metal with this thinking. Oh and you can be captured by said pirates and trades for money so you have that working against you. 😂
Pirates are why I only haul quartz in my c2. Sure I only get about 80-90k profit per run, but if I lose out. The thought of the pirates having to move 696 scu of quartz is hilarious.
The main reason not to hire an escort is simple, it doesn't pay. A competent combat pilot can make several hundred thousand credits an hour doing bounties or other combat missions. The cargo pilot can't afford to pay that from trading profits, even with a ship like the C2. And don't forget that from the escorts point of view, bounties are far more entertaining than sitting there watching a Caterpillar fly back and forth for an hour. There is very little incentive to act as an escort pilot outside of for fun with friends. And from the cargo pilots side, you are rarely attacked by pirates. The profit loss from the rare pirate attack is less than the profit loss from paying an escort for every trade run. You can consider losing one out of every X runs to pirates and/or bugs as a cost of doing business as a cargo ship owner/operator. Until that loss is greater than the escort payout, it just doesn't make sense to hire an escort. When the Hull C is introduced it might offer a fun change to this dynamic. That ship is so large that the profits might be high enough to comfortably cover the cost of an escort pilot. Not to mention, it's such a large target that they might be attacked often enough to make it worth having an escort with you on every trip. Higher profit = ability to hire an escort. Higher risk = escort pilot doesn't sit there twiddling their thumbs all night. And of course, more valuable cargo = more enticing target for piracy. Really it's potentially a very win win scenario. Although, in the long run, I'm still hoping for an eventual system with both low and high security areas. High security offering lower profit but relative safety from player pirates. Low security offering higher profit but you are open to attack. There is a part of the playerbase that will just never want to interact with other players. They simply want to enjoy their space trucking in peace. Leaving them a place to play is important, we all have to share the same sandbox after all. No reason to go over to the kid by themselves in the corner of the box and kick sand in their face until they run away from the park. And you never know, leave them alone for now and they might eventually come over to see how you are playing when they get bored with whatever they are doing. Not to mention it's good keeping some safer areas around for new players to cut their teeth against NPC's before heading out and engaging skilled PVP pilots. Few things can scare a new player away from a game faster than getting ganked within the first half hour of installing the game.
You have valid points but i disagree. The risk is part of the fun. Its not microsoft flight simulator. If moving cargo was guaranteed to be safe every time, it would be the most boring thing ever. I got pirated on my first week and it was awesome. Now im a pirate
@@alexeizaraiov You entirely missed his point, but thanks for trying to comment I guess. Risk is meaningless without reward. If there's no reward.... then it's just masochism. Maybe you dig that. Everyone has their own fetish.
@@alexeizaraiovSo you traded the high risk profession for the zero risk profession (there is no risk being a pirate) and you want us to believe you love the risk.
Dear Avenger One, as you said yourself, the margins of running cargo are already extremely low. It's so low that you earn less then what a single combat pilot can earn PvE. Therefore, haulers that WANT to have scouts, gunners or escorts would need to rely on other players to literally work for them for free, especially given the fact that you still carry the full risk, and even one or two escorts aren't a guaranty that you're safe. In my opinion, the only reason why we still see haulers, is because the chance of being pirated is still so small, that haulers are able to still make a profit. Many non-haulers claim, that if margins where increased, haulers would still not hire escorts, and I think that's true. But not, because haulers don't want to hire escorts, but instead because of two issues: - If you don't play in a fixed group, even if you were able to pay escorts good money, hiring escorts will always be a hassle: You need to find players willing to do the job, who are also trustworthy. And these need to travel to your location first. And every time, someone drops out, you have to start looking again. - In contrast, as long as the chances of being pirated aren't over 50%, spending 50% or more of your margin will mean that you'll earn less then if you just accept the risk of loosing a load now and then. If you then factor in that you'll likely able to make twice as much cargo runs if you don't permanently have to stop to find escorts, it's evident why haulers would still chose this option even if they are able to pay escorts. Also, imagine that haulers would be able to pay HUGE amounts of money to escorts so every combat pilot would want to fly as an escort, so finding an escort would be quick and fast. If every hauler would always hire two escorts, pirates would just start to attack in larger groups. So all haulers would need even more escorts. So pirates would form even larger packs. So haulers would need even more escorts. This will never work. Regarding turrets, IMHO without NPCs we'll never see turrets of haulers being manned on a regular basis, because putting a player in a combat ship will always be the much superior option. Not only is sitting in a turret even more boring then flying as an escort as long as nothing happens. Even in combat, it is a lot less fun, as most of the time, you wait for targets to even come into your firing arc. If you have a single turret manned in a hauler, fighters can just as well ignore it due to the limited arc. And even if you have manned all turrets in a hauler, fighters can just escape the weapon range to regenerate their shields once they take damage while other fighters keep the haulers shields from regenerating. Plus if you get interdicted in deep space, a single mantis could extort you by just keeping you from jumping while staying out of weapon range. And if those players fly fighters instead of manning your turrets, they can scout the area. Also, engineering will never be engaging enough to keep multiple turret gunners occupied during the majority of the time where you're not attacked. As for the question why some players just suicide/log if they get pirated, I can only guess. I assume that they already consider the cargo as a total loss, probably because in 95% of the time, that's the case. And so they rather decide to respawn/switch servers, claim their ship and continue doing what they like (hauling) then spending even more time in the uncomfortable situation of seeing your cargo being stole and your progress ruined by other players.
I like the "space pirate" theme, it's gotta be part of the game. BUT at this rate, by 3.22 the new gripe from players wont be pirates. It'll be people telling CIG to add npc traders/ships to take advantage of because all human players will be pirates. Its too easy, zero consequences. zero motivation to be a good guy. etc.. I can see the meme of 2 mantis pilots fighting over who's pirating who!
It won't happen, because Piracy isn't that easy, you need training, coordination, you need to know the other gameplay loops and it's not that lucrative, when you have to empty 500+ 1 scu boxes with a tractor beam from a C2 to load your prizeship all by yourself it takes hours. These Stats announced in this video are more than suspect without any proof. Even The biggest Pirate Org such as Mongrel Squad running 24h/ ops on the 3 regions (US/EU/Asia) with more than 1000k active members can't make that money and they are all well trained pirates doing this for many years. It's about 12 targets/day, 60 targets in 5 days and this implies that each target was a hit without anything go wrong.
I would say it's because it's what Salty Mike said. Most of the community are not PVP people and just want to get on and do a game loop that is chill and makes money. I agree with a lot of people, you don't make enough money from most if not all cargo to afford an escort.
So I attempted a little bit of hauling in 3,19 (not the best patch for it). Here are my conclusions and please note that the ship I was using is the 400I (Yest it isn't a hauler but I never flew one before and since I was playing solo in this patch I went for speed over space) Here is what I found. 1 Solo a MSR or a 400I make pretty good small profit haulers. 2 There are a ton of haulers in the game as the amount of times I could not even fill the 400I was numerous. 3 The only interdiction ship that was a real problem was the cutty blue and personally think it should be slowed down a little and is too fast. 4 A lot of pirates are under equipped to deal with these fast ships, so solo I will always RUN a fast ship. (Most fighters are pretty slow) 5 Considering I only did high risk trades to try and find pirates i.e. drugs and gold I was only pirated about 13 times out of about 70+ hauls. Out of the 13 only twice was there a interdiction ship and one I was able to string out the mantis from its accompanying fighters and kill it and escape and the other time they actually got me. The rest of them i could just simply outrun witch would not have been the case in a dedicated hauler. (I will add that there are some truly terrible pilots trying to pirate these day's and If your they guy reading this that got recked flying a gladius trying to kill a 400I and lost, Take an A1 class) All and all my experience hauling was a fun one but will definitely not become my chill money maker. I do a lot of PVE content as I am awaiting the return of my org when it is a bit more stable. (I will revisit this with a dedicated hauler at some stage but I got hit hard with the ship reset a I just spent all my auec just before the patch hit and lost all my ships) As a conclusion the worst loop I tried is medical and if anything needs a relook it is that or I just had terrible luck.
I think the most issues have people who are just doing trading and nothing else. My main gameplay loops are merc and bounty hunting, thus I am comfortable in ship vs. ship fight, even against multiple targets in PvE and PvP (though PvP is a more a sidething for me) and also ground based combat. Because of that, when I go for trading and mining, I always have an eye on my radar and the people around me and am ready for hostilities and I am ready to fight back or run. But people who do not enjoy or engage in any combat gameplay are likely people not comfortable with those elements and actually try to avoid these as much as possible. And they have a much harder time when being attacked and I'd even say that some of them have no idea of other combat ships capabilities. If you do ship combat from time to time, you get a feeling for which ships are a threat to you in whatever situation. Pure traders simply lack.... experience in that matter.
@@VulpesChama I agree and to that point I made a bunch of money in the 400I for two reasons in my opinion. Number one is the value of the hold is too little for pirate (and there were stages where I was making a 100k per run which is plenty for solo) but my ship choice of the 400I was made because I was running alone. 400i is 6.5mil in game and is more expensive than a C2 pretty much all cargo ships in game. I am also sure just the effort of trying to chase down my choice of ship and the S3 shield stopped a lot of pirates. Like I said, I went for the riskiest goods and locations to see how bad piracy is. (Surprise it isn't that bad if you make the correct ship choice for your intent, I did not even care if I saw a ship like a mantis or a Cutty blue because even if they could keep up the fighters couldn't). Haulers need to make a change in their concepts, and I think A1 is trying to install that. One good choice of ship saved me from being pirated and I still made money and if I had the same approach in a C2 I would have been pirated at least 50% of the time. (I was truly careless in my approach and to be honest if you are in a C2 or Cat as a solo player a cutty blue can pirate you no problem but the 400i I could get out of my seat and get into a turret and put enough pressure on it to disengage except for once bad choices were made). I got so confident that almost all my shields were facing rearwards when I took of from a purchase, by my calculations about 60 000 hp to chew through wile trying to catch up, 1250mp/s outruns all the meta fighters by almost a 100m/s that gap gets big quick.
So you attack people, steal their stuff and then blame them? Shouldn't have been wearing that dress in that system huh? Was asking for it. Completely ridiculous argument you make, acting as if there are 100s of people sitting around just waiting for the chance to fly next to a cargo ship for 2 hours.
@@308damage Honestly, whether I fly from bounty target to bounty target, or other mission location to location, or just fly next to some trader.... That's not really that much of a difference. As it is, it is just much more profitable to run bunkers or do bounty than get hired by some trader. If they'd put in the credits, there'd be plenty of people willing to do the job.
If you're getting pirated, it's usually by a skilled group. If you're hiring others to protect you, it's usually not going to be a skilled group. There's also going to be a lesser quality of communication between the trader and the hired crew versus the pirate group which is generally going to be a closer group of friends. The groups of pirates will always outnumber the group of hired personnel just purely based on fun factor. Pirating someone and taking their shit is virtually a guarantee of loot and fun, whereas escorting a trader is no guarantee anything interesting will happen at all, and if something DOES happen.. you'll probably get wrecked regardless. The issue is how to get SKILLED players to do the boring work of escorting cargo. Currently the incentive structure isn't there, and probably won't be for a long time. I'm not sure if you have any videos of this type, but I would like to see a realistic perspective on what it's like to escort traders. My hunch is that it won't make for a very interesting video.
Dont overestimate how many people you need as an escort. basically all you realy need is a scout that runs the qt routes ahead of you. And if he gets interdicted he will let you know not to take that route. Same goes for going down to mining facilities. If you head to a mining facility and you see any other threat going in. Do not run this route! Yes it sucks for you but it sucks even more if your cargo gets taken. Seriously haulers have it pretty easy because most ships are very hard to hide. A1 mentions this in the beginning. Thing is most people do not have the awerness to spot danger in the verse... and once they do its to late. Stay save out there!
@@CabakLaudenz "most ships are hard to die" clearlynever shot at a catt loaded with gold, it takes maybe 8-12 shots up the arse from an ion to soft death it. the c2 is the only real option if you want even the slightest chance thanks to shields and manouvering ability. as a pirate i know just how stacked in my favour it is when i go solo hunting, heck i nearly solo killed a c2 in a mantis the other day 2xs3 laser cannons took me near 10 mins though before we colided. but yeah ship goes pop very fast if you know what your doing.
@@bigapestudios9847 "most ships are very hard to *hide* ". You just wrote a whole paragraph that has nothing to do with anything because your dyslexic ass couldn't read "hide". So cringe.
Most of the organized pvp crowd seem to be pirates, and judging from the number of videos that I see on UA-cam, the majority of traders are solo players who have no chance against an organized group of fighters. It's going to become a real problem for the game if everyone who wants to do organized pvp is a pirate. Pack jumping a C2 or a Caterpillar , or Freelancer with unmanned turrets can't be much of a challenge.
Like in real life. Most advantages are on the pirate site. They are willing to fight and they trained for it. They are working in a group most of the time. The Solo trader is in a bad spot if the get caught. You can try to outsmart the pirate. Take faster ships. Take non popular trade routes. Take detour to your destination. And try to negotiate with the pirates. An insurance or NPC gunners would help. But all this would also lower the profit of the trader. And many traders don't want to lower their money/hour.
Later on (Thoon!) there will be about nine npc ships on one pc ship so there will be less of a threat to pc traders as in-it-for-the-money pirates will focus on these.
@@vonrosphe3098 If most the advantages are on the pirate's side "in real life", then why aren't 90% of ships being pirated every day on the high seas? Why is it just a tiny number in isolated undefended areas? Also, there's no "fight" when that happens. The insurance company just writes it off and the crew is usually unharmed (unless the pirates are dumbasses and the military kills them in a hostage mission) Once you ask yourself what works in REAL life... then you can definitely see what is MISSING in Star Citizen to enable what you think you want.
They should introduce Emergency Distress Beacons when you're still alive and engaged by anybody with a crimestat - like a live bounty you attach to somebody and put some AUEC behind it. Let's say A1 and crew attack a trading vessel, the Victim can lock A1, put a bounty of 100k to kill A1 which goes out system wide and creates a Quantum Beacon to jump to. Makes it more fun for the pirates who are generally seeking some good and fun engagements. Basically like a 911 call, but privatised. Also - increase profit margins on trading to enable people to pay security forces and improve the risk vs reward for the traders. Some simple mechanics to improve both the Pirate gameplay AND the Trading Gameplay AND good guy security gameplay.
Issue being that doesn't counter ship jacking piracy ie where you are ambushed on foot after buying cargo or before you sell. Additionally any sort of security response that has a travel time gives the pirates time to either board and take the ship or to grab what loot they can and leave.
I've always thought that the way they implemented combat assist beacons was not ideal. They should be like mini events involving anyone that wants to help. Both PvE vs npcs and against player pirates.
@@gyratingwolpertiger6851 This is kinda being addressed by CIG now, as they are planning to implement in 3.20 that ships become trespassing areas for anyone but the owner and their group members, making it effectively legal to defend your ship against trespassers, while it remains a crime for the trespasser to attack the actual crew.
It needs to be balanced or it will be messed up and go the way EVE has for so many. I want piracy in the game, and I am a old "carebear" that will never be a pirate. However there has to be things in game that are available to a solo player or a small group to keep from being griefed constantly. Being pirated here and there the excitement of fighting and escaping or even losing is awesome! The challenge of trying to get rich in a high pirate area. This isn't hard to do, low income patrolled areas, mayday broadcast to local ships as would happen for ships in our oceans. It gives the Rats, the hauler and the potential defender all a gameplay loop. I think there is so much potential for all sides to have fun. It shouldn't be easy to be a pirate, a hauler or a defender.
To Avenger One: My first video game was pong. I am closer to 60 than 50. I have always enjoyed video games as a pastime and have shared that passion with my wife and three children, who are all now adults and sharing with their children. Having said all that as background I will share that I have participated in pvp across multiple games and platforms and have never truly enjoyed it. I have found the large majority of PVP players to be crass, rude, and a tad narcissistic. When I came to SC I was not sure what to expect. I found your page a core skills video and over time you and the SC PVP community have changed my opinion significantly. How you may ask. Your teaching style, videos like this one where you show the larger potential of PVP are a few of the reasons. I have been practicing but it is unlikely that I will be an exceptional pvp player by virtue of age, health, and deteriorating eye-hand coordination. I am going to get a decent joystick setup to, hopefully, offset some of the issues, well at least with regards to an old guy with good joysticks vs a young person with a mouse and keyboard LOL. Keep up the great work.
I've run cargo on and off for a year and a half now. I have been pirated exactly zero times. Pirates are a tiny, yet loud, minority. And let's be honest, what escort worth its salt will work for the peanuts I am able to offer them? Over time I will make millions, sure, but a single trip is certainly not profitable enough for me to split with anyone else. Traders are many, and with the current (lack of an) economy, with shared supply across the shards, you will be lucky to haul anything of notable value anyways.
Run all your cargo hauls with escorts, 150k profit per run, but each run takes far longer to set up. Then a patch comes and you instantly lose 20 runs of cargo in lost ships that you hopefully have the saved money to rebuy.
Your tips on avoiding getting jumped in a dark space alley are very much appreciated. Your advice on jumping people in dark space alleys is helpful as well :D Although I would suggest that saying "Why not just talk?" and "...it's up to you" misses valid reasons why some people might not respond in VOIP or chat. This would include physical limitations...one example: SC does not appear to have much in the way of Accessibility Settings for people with vision issues. Even without vision problems I end up missing hails/invites because the HUD text is impossible to read when flying in certain conditions. And until CIG provides universal translators, some players won't be able to communicate with you outside of their native language. Those folks are not likely to use General Chat. Consider also that 80% of my experiences with voice in SC have been initiated by 13 year old trolls and NOT by people trying to engage in a legit gameplay loop. Seriously, If all you ever got were calls from children in the neighborhood or telemarketers trying to take your money, who could blame you for never picking up the phone? I'm sure you're right about the future of cargo and that people hauling boxes of gold will eventually take the risk/reward equation a lot more seriously and hopefully SC will fix the UI and provide some accessibility... But until then, maybe you should try semaphore. Shoot them in Morse code? o7
The thing about piracy is that the risk to the pirate is relativly small comprared to the risk of the trader. They need to make piracy more risky to the pirate imo.
Yes. The haulers should get a crew together at minimum or get escorts or take the suggestions in this video xD The thing about piracy is that the pirate is the one doing all this setup, "what ships should we bring, should we worry about distorting or just blowing up the ship or to extort. The only thing to make it more difficult is to up security ether by having turret gunners or by having fighter escorts. Otherwise what are you suggesting because there is a lot of work to piracy already that you don't see.
@@joppa560 Bullcrap. Places that have functional government and security don't operate on the premise that everyone hires a private security contractor to escort them to the grocery store or the bank. The security system of that state or city operate to make sure that criminals don't simply camp out in front of the auto parts store and rob every person that doesn't have enough muscle to kill them all. Because.... well obviously the auto parts store can't even exist in such an environment
Fun times. I love that piracy is part of the game. It's cool and exciting. The other day I was making that gold run. I landed at MT at SMO-18. I happened to glance up and I saw the comm array was off. I knew someone was watching me at that point. I sat there for about 15 minutes. Then took off empty. Sure enough - I got attacked soon after I left the armistice zone. I did make a run for it and my raft took a ton of punishment but pulled through and I was able to warp out. A single attacker and no interdicting ability. Not sure if I missed you making the point of this story - but comm array off means someone is up to no good. Even with it on, it doesn't mean one is safe. Situational awareness, as you say.
Comm array up or down means nothing really. Most attackers I've seen are blue. Clearing CS is trivial for anyone with a large group to hold the facility.
Sometimes mate i really feel you overthink things. She's simply a game and most folk just want to go fly a space ship. SC by design kinda makes that hard, you know the whole time sink thing. Add trying to sort support out while you fly cargo is just something that doesn't happen. If it all turns out to not be fun they'll go spend their time with other entertainment. I dont see the attraction of pirating, careful planning, short burst of excitement....... then lots of stacking boxes. SC is rapidly becoming a half billion dollar game of tetris😂 Nice advice though 👍
They probably didnt answer the phone because they dont know how to. And chat bugs out so damn often they may not have seen it. I havent had a day where chat didnt freeze up on me. I solo haul because i dont typically have the play time to set up and run an escort haul, escorts are just as likely to be pirates, and the profits dont feel good enough to split, especially during times where beryl starts getting low (which may be always. Seems to always be so when im able to play my few hours). Had only seen a pirate while hauling once and was able to stop my quantum jump and jump another direction before they could successfully block me. Have faced much more danger while mining and the amount of work and profit from it being so much lower i usually just try to go full Ork and ram (have succeeded once lol, gotten away other times surprisingly). Add in how often things are lost to actual bugs (my favorite is when the ship rejects you and leaves you EVA’d mid jump as your ship speeds off lol, my least fave being losing 10 mil in ships to a patch) and it just doesnt seem to matter much. Likely an emotion that will lead to peeps like me leaving eventually (a bad thing for pirates). Ive only got a couple hours a few days a week to play between work, gym, family, and friends, and the orgs ive joined that could be trustworthy as escorts tend to be active during times im not able to be. Not sure there is a solution, maybe higher risks for pirates and higher rewards for lawful?
And there is one thing pirats have to understand, they are the criminals, they are to blame, and victim blaming is not the way to go. Remember, it is not the skirt that is too short. I was pirated thrice so far. Once I was ROC mining and the pirate hid in the turret, I could not get him out until his buddies arrived. Once I was lead into a trap with a medical rescue beacon and they abused an invisibility bug (in PTU, and they didn't even make a report at the issue council). And once I was attacked by a pirate before calling me, while bringing in my haul of quantanium, which destabilized my cargo and ended my travels in a big boom. The wannabe pirate called me names for "self-destructing" and when I pushed back he began to whine. Pirates are the "scum of the void" (my in-character rollplay position) and ooc I haven't met a pirate that did not abuse game mechanics, a bug and/or wasn't a self-important and self-righteous snowflake. Ohh, and then there are the marauders that just want to see the world burn.
5 days, +60 haulers = 38mil.. Thats even bigger lie than #Pyro2020 Mind of telling your party size and play hours? Raw uncut video from that 5 day period? Info of every ship you attacked, SCU amounts and what cargo they had? Time to unload/load boxes to your own ship of each of your targets?
Pretty much all this week. Anything from Connie's to carracks... really anything with a cargo bay Party sizes, can't exactly say that but you can gather that from the video Primarily gold but we took whatever Sometimes we wouldn't unload the ship we would extort them for their profit but sometimes we'd have to unload upwards of 100+ boxes Time to unload also can't say that. We've hit up a lot of ships
Just go back through my twitch vods, ull see a walk tonn there and allt we catch after hours, I don't have the time to verify this for you, so your going to have to go with my word on this but I'm telling the truth.
@@Avenger__One The donkey said to the tiger: - "The grass is blue". The tiger replied: - "No, the grass is green." The discussion heated up, and the two decided to submit to arbitration, and for this they went before the lion, the King of the Jungle. Already before reaching the forest clearing, where the lion was sitting on his throne, the donkey began to shout: - "His Highness, is it true that the grass is blue?". The lion replied: - "True, the grass is blue." The donkey hurried and continued: - "The tiger disagrees with me and contradicts and annoys me, please punish him." The king then declared: - "The tiger will be punished with 5 years of silence." The donkey jumped cheerfully and went on his way, content and repeating: - "The Grass Is Blue"... The tiger accepted his punishment, but before he asked the lion: - "Your Majesty, why have you punished me?, after all, the grass is green." The lion replied: - "In fact, the grass is green." The tiger asked: - "So why are you punishing me?". The lion replied: - "That has nothing to do with the question of whether the grass is blue or green. The punishment is because it is not possible for a brave and intelligent creature like you to waste time arguing with a donkey, and on top of that come and bother me with that question." The worst waste of time is arguing with the fool or fanatic who does not care about truth or reality, but only the victory of his beliefs and illusions. Never waste time on arguments that don't make sense... There are people who, no matter how much evidence you present to them, are not in the capacity to understand, and others are blinded by ego, hatred and resentment, and all they want is to be right even if they are not.
@@Rebel338lm what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
I dont run cargo as a trader but i do run all my ores i mine, but in my many year long experience playing star citizen i have only been snared 2 or 3 times by players, every single one i came out on top, all of those times however, i was not doing any sort of cargo running and i have a feel why i never get snared by players during my cargo runs is most likely because i never go straight from one point to another, i always fly a couple mill out towards another planet an drop out and then jump to my destination, sure it takes a extra minute to do so but hey, its worth avoiding the major flight lanes.
Why people take risks when running cargo? Because if they are risking anything there is a 1% risk they get pirated, a 99% risk they lose the cargo due to bugs.
Maybe with the Hull C some cargo haulers will make enough money to pay for escorts and well, they will need them. Since cargo is stored outside, any ship shooting with ballistics at it would make them detatch with the shields from the hull C at 100%. Not to say that their hull C will be extremely slow and wont outrun any player, doesn't matter the skill of the enemy at this point.
@@Cocaina92 yes they do, but lol one thing if a ship needs to escape atmosphere till QT another if its from station, or can you activate interdiction just at the station?
@@aka-47k with a mantis you can interdict any ship that is jumping. Making a ship that is jumping from CRU L1 to ARC L1 (as example) stop in the middle of deep space and not able to jump anywhere, since the Mantis has a 20km quantum snare bubble arround it.
@@Cocaina92 lol and this work only on inexpirienced traders once, who then proceed to use a diff qt marker to get off course, stop after 10 sec, and then fly to where they want to 100km away off course.
Trading is too unprofitable to hire escorts. Players are not interested either in spending their time escorting another player. There's also no law enforcement to speak of. All of these factors currently make trading quite frankly, a stupid venture right now. Pirates can have their fun but traders aren't having any, so sure pirates can keep pirating but all they are doing is driving away players who are willing to trade. Not to mention the myriad of server hiccups and bugs that make trading unprofitable. Eventually there will be hardly anyone left to pirate. Then what happens? No traders - No piracy.
And until there's some sort of player reputation, the escort you're hiring could be the very pirate that will shoot you down while he calls in his buddies to loot you.
An answer to your question about Parley: Why nobody picks up "the phone"? Nobody trusts the exchange will be worth it. As many people have said already, most "Pirates" are actually griefers. These folks will kill you regardless of your reaction. You may be the Trader initiating the communication, saying "please take my stuff and leave me be" and you get ignored and killed anyhow. In regards to Security: If we are talking about player Orgs that role-play as security, they are few and far in between. Not to mention there is no way of telling whether an org is security or pirates in disguise. If you are expecting in-game security, such as Crusader/Hurston/ArcCorp/MT, even if they show up (which is rare as heck, unless you are right next to the planet's space port), they are so easy to take out that noob pilots will have no trouble. Yes, piracy is here to stay, but non-pirates have very few, if any options to defend themselves. CIG is about to implement a ship trespassing feature in 3.20.x. I am mentioning this to highlight how long we may have to wait for proper defense or even legit player rep features. Also, there is no defense whatsoever against Interdiction, or what you call tackling. As you mentioned to the dude at the end of the video, his shields were up and everything worked as intended. WHAT? (Not actually mad, just bringing a point across).
man that was so good how you brought that frustrated guy on board and showed him that you aren't there to be assholes, you're all just playing a role and having great fun with it. You aren't there to ruin other peoples fun. You're there to play the role of pirate and have fun interactions with other people who are playing other roles like traders, escorts, fighters & delivery drivers. Being the victim of a pirating attack doesn't have to be miserable. It's all about the communications that force these fun interactions where we can have unique experiences. This is what the game is all about. So going back to the most important point i think Avenger made in this video. PARLAY. Pick up the receiver and engage the comms. Hey, maybe you can lure the pirates into a false sense of security, and then ram one or something and make a desperate getaway! Maybe you can make them laugh / sympathize and get away scot free, even with some new friends. Theres a million possibilites. Star Citizen has amazing potential for unlimited unique experiences.
“I genuinely want what’s best for this game,” so let’s got be l33t gamers and go harass players who are just trying to enjoy their little part of this game by taking advantage of the fact that it is STILL IN ALPHA (so there is no real in game mechanic to deter piracy yet), and when they don’t like being harassed, bullied, blackmailed, and extorted we’ll tell them, “get used to it cause we aren’t going anywhere.” That’s exactly how you do what’s best for the game. Drive away the players who just want to drive a “space truck” in peace, alone, or maybe do a quick bunker mission after work. Then you can have the Space Fortnite (Star Citizen) all to yourselves. You can PvP yourselves into oblivion and grind this game, that so many people enjoy peacefully, into a soulless piece of garbage just to feed your ego because YOU decided that this video game lets you be a bully, oops sorry pirate. I don’t have the time or inclination to spend time getting better at PvP, or pay someone who is, just because you might be hiding behind an asteroid. It’s obvious that you enjoy being a bully because if you didn’t enjoy ganging up on people you’d just play the PvE content. Not so if you PvP with others who want to, that’s on you, I refer to people who aren’t playing Star Citizen for that. I’m not good at PvP and I don’t care to be but I do think it’s pretty cool to fly a space ship, do some missions, haul some cargo, whatever, without someone just coming along to ruin it just because they can. Yes, definitely, good for this game, or your ego, perhaps. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
i run, i hide,i lock cockpit and yeet into something if borded ... pirating is a legit gameloop but its also legit that i dont surrender or pay pirates, i rather loose my cargo then pay 1 spacebuck, my chioce and i stand by it
I think the issue is theres alot more toxic pirates out there, than not. I would have bo problem surrending my cargo to a pirate if it means i dont have to be blown up. It would frustrate me, and might go do a few bunker runs before hauling again, but i have yet to run into a pirate crew that doesnt just immediately blow me up. Even when i have offered to surrender, i get called names before being blown up. I would like to see the option to Rate a Pirate based on behavior. Like a 5 Star pirate is someone who is willing to accept surrender and/or help others learn. While a 1 start ranking would be the most toxic.
I don't have a mic and I don't send chat to Visor because it takes up too much screen, so self-destruct/ramming would be my only option if pirates came in guns a-blazin'. I'd rather lose some or all of the cargo to self-destruct than let Pirates have the "fun" of getting it all. BUT, that's just my case for my crappy computer setup. I do like the way you got that first cat and got him to join. If all Piracy were like that, it might even be fun lol. Well done.
instead of taking a cut of the traders profits there should be a security rep that's tied into escort missions that a cargo hauler inputs/ spawns a mission with the destination and start point and the npc mission security rep generates the mission and the escort player accepts the mission for profit / reputation.
I think the logic is pretty solid, the server player count is not high enough for pirating to be a present threat, so paying escorts or scouts for every trip you make basically costs more than losing an entire haul every now and then.
So the problem with hiring scouts/fighters that I have noticed is that nobody is really willing to tag along with a c-2 for a few hours for the money cargo haulers can pay. The other problem I see is detection ranges, pirates can hold back their hauler and stalk orbital markers and ground bases because their detection ranges are way lower than say a c-2. While pinging helps in space, it’s useless on the ground because there is no way of determining whether your looking at a rock or a pirate besides from approaching. Personally I think that both CIG and us cargo haulers need to adjust, you’ve already done a great job on outlining ways to improve safety for cargo ships but I think that making every cargo more or profitable will go a long way to change the handoff of goods we currently have into enjoyable space battles for all involved. Another thing that would really help is making piracy a little more optional. Here’s my proposal, make one special cargo extremely profitable but only let people buy it a one station and sell it to another. Cargo haulers will be able to afford a large defense but pirates can more easily set up blockades and snares. It will allow cargo haulers to choose when they want to be hunted and rewarded for it and it will also ease up some pirate attacks on your average trader.
- Pirating is extremely rare, been playing for 2 years quite consistently and have only been pirated once (they failed) - Cargo running just isn't profitable enough to invest in hiring people to escort/man turrets. If you're out of friends, you're out of luck - As pirating becomes more prevalent, there will be few who will run cargo until CIG makes the risk worth the reward. That will be bad for cargo runners and pirates alike. - These security forces that you speak of are non-existent in most cases. If you put out help in global chat, you're more likely to attract more wanna-be pirates. - I'd rather blow up my cargo than have it be stolen. I'm losing my investment either way. Ship and player respawn for free. I don't negotiate with terrorists, lol
As a hauler, who's been pirated of more than 2-3mil of cargo over a span of a couple weeks, I appreciate this video. And I appreciate the humility of being shown my complacency or incompetence. Thank you for this.
Pirates are easy to avoid as a cargo hauler. I’ve had some amateurs try to take out a full C2 I was piloting solo, but escaping was easy, and then evading them to sell was easy. Firstly their presence was obvious: that I was being watched as I was filling with cargo. However the fact they expected me to just nonchalantly go upwards into orbit mean they were screwed as I boosted to max speed just a few hundred meters above the surface of the moon. By the time they could react I was heading so far away and reached QT height to a pre-planned point, that they had no chance. Pirates tend to only show their successes, not the 100 failures. All you do to avoid QT interdiction is head to a random quantum marker for a couple of million km before then going to your own destination. I always do that with a full load of cargo: hence never get pirated. Oh, and this game is such a non-game right now, that nobody cares or bothers to take precautions.
What pirates don't understand is that they make profit out of other people's hard work. The game loops are broken so people just choose not to take risks. If I mine and haul my own shit it can take me up to 30 hours to setup a single cargo run and you come in 5 minutes and hold me captive, congrats, my only option is to take the fun away from you. In addition pirates don't lose anything. Your risk is 15 minutes of insurance and 10K worth of gear? Laughable when your targets to make 20K need an investment of millions. If the game had more solid economy, with fair game loops maybe pirating would have been less frowned upon. But when someone spends hours working around bugs and 30k just to be held captive by someone who just sits there and waits is infuriating
Assuming you don't run into such a nice group of pirates like Avenger 1... The pirates are going to take everything you have and kill you. Any 'negotiating' you do is wasting your time. So logically your best course of action is to self destruct/backspace or AltF4. That would be the quickest way to get back to doing business.
I think the answer is that Squadron 42 needs a New Game Plus mode where the game becaomes "open world" where you can trade, have all the AI gunners you want, and even some AI fighter escorts. GIve people the single player experiance they are looking for.
Most teaching pirate in the verse ! 🏴☠ - people play alone because multiplayer succs often becaus of desyncs, missing ingame tools - reward is allways by concept shared in SC .. everyone earning their own reward is a concept i personaly like much more and makes a game more social (e. g. GW2) - people distrust others they could hire because of missing player reputation mechanisms - there are still so few pirates at the moment (many players have more experience with some kind of griefers than pirates) - people are used to playing alone - this is process of change and takes time i very much appreciate your videos teaching everyone playing this game with the highest grade of knowledge
Its less about traders not -being greedy (which is a broad brush)- ok, granted, a poor choice of words, let's go with 'not willing to share', but rather having escorting and support an actual thing people want to do. Who are these mythical security personnel who will defend a trader? Currently anyone who might be there for support is just as incentivised to drop the ship owner and just take the ship and cargo. Having missions that spring up to support and provide missions that offer a payout would be huge. The rest of your topics are bang on. Head on a swivel, be aware of activities. If you know it's coming, then you can be aware of it. I am of the sort that will parlay or broker a deal because I am a reasonable person. The verse is not however full of reasonable people.
He never said that the traders were greedy. He said they were oblivious. You don’t need escorts if you just are aware of your surroundings, and just fly back to the armistice zone. You can avoid mantis snares too by just avoiding common routes between planets.
@@notcarson2227 fair, I'll edit my post. And yes, 9/10ths is just being observant. My point was that there is an opportunity to support more game loops by offering escort/ protect missions. We get these for NPCs already, so it doesn't seem to be a huge stretch to have that be for player support vs NPC. Pirates still get to pirate, traders get to trade, loot gets to maybe be plundered (or defended) and a lot more people are having a lot more fun in the process.
The real question is why did a talented and positive person known as A1 decide to do piracy then complain about people not having scouts... knowing full well that his team of top PVPs could easily counter them? Instead of taking peoples stuff - why not actually solve the problem and be a force for good? The Stanton Justice Assembly and the Stanton Police Department will be entering into the SC community bringing about: - A true criminal justice system including lore binding legislation and legal proceedings - An out-of-verse criminal reputation system - An out-of-verse warrant bounty system - Tech to support a true policing gameloop (checkpoints, undercover investigations, 911 emergency, and more) - A lawfull alliance community Become the solution to the pirate problem A1. The verse has enough bad guys.
I don't trade or transport cargo but from what I gathered there are few things, one you said yourself the profit is around 20%. That is not that much to pay people for hours to wait and fly with you. Also people running the cargo alone usually can make back the millions lost quite quickly by few trips, so being intercepted 1 in 10 trips (or more) isn't really a big deal. Especially now when money and death don't really matter.
Not gonna lie. I would love to be the hauler for a pirate gang. Let them do all the fighting and escorting. I just provide the muscle to move the goods and get extra protection out of it.
I dont have a C2, but hiring an escort would mean near zero profits for hauling. I cant really see more than 15k profits for a run. Its risk the route or find another game loop. Sure the haul has a high value, but I have to buy it. So I just invest an amount I can afford to lose. If I could make double and pay 15k to an escort, I still might go solo, as its troublesome trying to vet and schedule a good escort. The risk/reward still favors going solo and risk running.
Piracy is currently the most lucrative play loop. It is time CIG update the values of bounties on pirates accordingly to make it just as lucrative to be a pirate hunter.
Is it though? You also have to calculate with the hours it takes to grind to become decent at PVP eating into the pirate´s profit. You can start as a trader after learning how to land and take off doing parcel deliveries.
You’ll just get pad rammed if you’re in an armistice zone. Has happened to me three times in the past week now. Pirates have nothing to lose and everything to gain - the game loop is broken with no real recourse for people pad rammers and people who soft death protected vessels
3 reasons: First: The trade profit is too small to pay escorts. Second: The risk/cost of piracy is lower than cost of escorts. Third: Lack of pirates due to the lack of profits for them even. The payout is currently so bad, that if piracy increases, then cargo hauling with simply stop. CIG needs to address this badly. It's been brought up and passed over many times by CIG. At maybe 50k profit per leg for a good haul, payout to security will be what? 10k per escort. Why bother be security? Go run some missions for better profit. Now for the pirates.. the boxes themselves are worth very little each. So spending 2 hours transferring boxes and selling that for maybe 2 million worth split between 3 or 4 people? not very lucrative for the pirate either. I would imagine pirates do it for the fun, not the profit. The trend as I see it is that CIG is sucking out the game economy to increase the ship sales using real world currency. Any lucrative loop gets nerfed to hell. look at salvage most recently. nerf the crap out of selling ship guns. 7500 aUEC for 1 RMC box is nice, but unless you are in a reclaimer, a dozen or two boxes is just not work the time and effort to pirate. Would you organize a group to pirate only 85k worth of booty? Mining.. quant nerfed all to hell as well. As a miner it's lucky to hit anything bigger than a 100k run. 3 or 4 runs to fill a Freelancer max. so maybe 300k per FL max? If you happen to catch one at the right time? Not exactly enticing.
I do not bother with escorts, not because I do not want to pay them but because I have been killed by someone who was supposed to be escorting me a couple of times, and because it is hard to find anyone willing to be an escort because most of the time it is boring for them. On an org mining trip with a friendly org we had 2 escorts who defended us twice that evening. I made 300k aUEC that evening as my share as the others did, myself and one other gave every bit to the escorts, but all paid them well. Unless it was a planned and well organized event with usual friendly escorts I have either been killed by someone pretending like an escort (Or who just got bored and an itchy trigger finger lol) or could find no one who wanted to be an escort for any amount of pay as they were having fun doing their own thing. So you cannot just say across the board that someone trading with no escorts is selfish or lazy and such. Most of the time it is either go alone or not at all and when I get the itchy to play (It is getting more and more difficult for me to even launch due to bugs and crashes) I am damned well going to play. I am not going to not play because I cannot find a friend to join me. Good trading to the traders, and good hunting to the hunters. Edited to add, since 3.2 I have had the afore mentioned escorts on the group mining outing, and on one group trade outing, and a couple of fake escorts who killed me, and never could get an escort besides those. I have never been accosted and killed during a single trade run by a pirate, it is ironic that while trading I have only been killed by a couple of players posing as escorts.
I am a player that would be similar to a carebear in eve, trying to mine or truck in peace, and having responses or interactions like this would be what i would be perfectly okay with as there is actual communication and not just striping of a destroyed ship.
The thing I notice with traders as well is a lot of them don’t have anyone to play with, my mates and I play together all the time and the only factor money plays for us is paying for our fun (blasting each other with tanks and expensive bomb shenanigans). Anyway we pirated a guy once, ripped him out of quantum, disabled him, he was willing to talk, turns out he was new so we took him under our wing taught him game mechanics and he’s still with us today.
TL;DR: If you want to do bulk trading, you need to either be in an org or have a group of 5-6 friends you always play with. This will be even more apparent when the Hull C gets released to flyable.
As the one who belongs to pirate fleet, I'm very appreciate to this video is promoting how piracy works. We're hunting, tackling cargos almost every days. But yes most of that time are just for searching or waiting.. or just very one-sided hunting. It's quite boring actually. I hope this promotion gives courage to the people, gives understand how it works, how to prevent or against, and which mechanics contributes here then the people are willing to take the risk, be adventurous so that this universe become more active and excite, unpredictable. sometimes we were getting super epic capitalship battles against hostile fleet to protect their cargos like Reclaimers and Hammerheads shooting each others and fighters flying through that barrage... we want to share these experiences. that's why we are going to piracy.
I think a big reason not to haul right now is simply insurance. Cargo is supposed to be insurable, Avengers points are learn how to deal with the risk....but cargo insurance would lower the risk to the pilot by allowing him reimbursement if he loses his cargo, and thus he will be more likely to surrender, it's insured...file a claim....don't die...and pirates get the loot..maybe you don't make money but atleast you can try again. Win-Win in my book.
This wouldn't work because people would likely abuse that system and make money by engaging in insurance fraud (buying cargo and then having friends "steal it" for margins). How do we know this will happen? Because duping, salvage fraud, and mining exploits have ran rampant within the game since atleast 3.18s launch (duping even before that). Cargo insurance can't be a thing because for people not to abuse it... the loss would have to match the original cost of the cargo bought... else... scenario above would occur and people can game the system. Each side has a risk. The pirate will only make money if they can steal it (in whichever form). The trader will only make money if they can safely sell their cargo for profit. As A1 has said many times... learn to mitigate risk as much as you can. That might mean hiring escorts and only your margins take a cut... but atleast things like this would be less likely than if you go it completely alone. But, none of this really truly matters right now anyway. As said, we have no real consequence or progression in the game today. To what A1 said, people should set expectations and be prepared when things change in the future... because it wont be all sunshines and rainbows like it is now. Consequences are going to really hurt for those who are unprepared "consistently".
While I agree with the premise, I believe orgs should run this rather than trying to have the game an sich manage it. It's a lot harder to dupe the banker of an org several times, than a game mechanic.
As far as pirates risking anything... Remember they are the ones who initiate the encounter. So if it looks too difficult all they have to do is leave and find another target.
Exactly, so why take on a group? I have watched many pirating videos for Star Citizen and the commonality is outnumber and overpower a cargo ship, avoid the fast ones then take the ten minutes to clear your crimestat.
@@mabutoo The last part is the biggest issue I think. Once you're a pirate.... you should be a pirate. That's your reputation. You don't get to magically have your sins forgiven. It should be an EXTREMELY hard life on the edge. That's part of the "pirate life." Many times they literally "kill" people so why should a crime state be forgiven? Unless of course the game is just too wonky and bug ridden in it's current state and EVERYONE would have crime stats from random explosions. Meaning... we are not in a state where this is even a conversation to really have since the game is NOWHERE near ready for it. It's like arguing over what floor tile options should be available in your own personal hangar and apartment in game (which aren't even on the road map yet)
I think another topic that can be mentioned are what the safest and most dangerous places are in Stanton, to help newcomers know where they should stay to avoid being attacked. On my own personal experiences, I'd have to rank microTech as the safest planetary system, and Crusader as the most dangerous. In microTech I rarely ever run into other players while out and about, amd when I do it's often a friendly interation even in areas where it's entirely possible for them to just kill me. As for Crusader, I was trying to complete box missions in my inconspicuous Picses R8X around Daymar. A Gladius player spotted me and shot me down without hesitation. Twice.
One day pirates will also be able to target NPCs for loot, but that requires better ai since many pirates want the rush of a difficult while also very lucrative heist.
Well there is no way currently to mitigate pirates unless you're in an active org. I can't expect a casual player to employ someone to do scouting or provide escort the way the game currently is. CIG has to implement an easy system to employ scouts or escort with a press of a button. But you can't do that if inside the whole system there are only 100 players. There should also be a simple parley system, where pirates request 20% for imunity, you click ok = 20% of cargo is removed from your ship and placed nearby + you get immunity from all attacks in the area. As long as its based on trust, it won't work. Trusting a random player is like trusting a random combatant in Afghanistan.
Here is the real deal. Most players are playing solo because they are connected in just after work and want to play. They have no scout or escort because that requires coordination with other players. You could put a request for an escort out in chat but who wants to follow you around for the day for maybe 3 to 10K when they can just run bunkers them selves. This is the real reason.
Big Red button on the coms MFD called "distress call" needed that throws up a marker for anyone in the server that grabs that service beacon to come help is needed. the lawful/lawless/unlawful gameplay isn't going to really work until reputation costs to all these actions start being a thing tbh I'm really hoping that instead of simply saying "escorts" there will be an org that establishes itself as a QRF on a server, so if a distress call goes out, they switch straight to it, the same way some people do all the medical beacons.
I agree with you, but I'm not sure what you're smoking when you say that pirates are taking risks What risk pirates are taking? Everything in the game right now is slanted in their favor. All the risk is on the traders, and their reward is low, and they have far fewer tools at their disposal than pirates. Other than this, nice video, as always.
Imo, the reason I personally don't use those, Why pay for something when the chances of actually hittin pirates are so small? I've mainly been doing cargo running in 3.19 & .1 and have made just shy of 12M creds. Never once been stopped. Not saying it wont happen, and if it does multiple times I would consider changing how I play, but right now, pirates are few and far between.
I don't understand why people don't Parlay, when being asked to. It's as if they automatically assume they are going to lose all that cargo. Death certainly doesn't help with that, so if you get caught, stop, pull over and talk about it. Most certainly the Pirates are willing to negotiate a deal for you.
I would agree that when either in atmo, or facing two or more interdiction ships you need to head for armistice. But in space, and against only one interdictor you can run a fighting retreat if the other ships are not especially heavy. Boost to max speed, decouple, turn, and shoot. Running at current max speeds there is a good chance you will get an interdiction free window and be able to jump out. If not? Well then break out your multi-tools boys, it's gonna be a long one.
I think the reason people don't hire scouts is because if you don't have an active org hiring a scout via beacons is extremely unreliable. You don't know who is out there (if Anyone), or their skill level. On the flip side beacon I receive have a good chance of being a trap. Finally. Even if there is a legit person, trying to come to an agreement on the task, the pay, get in the same party chat, and not be shot at by NPC's is a process many people just don't want to deal with. I think we need to add a SERVICE PROVIDER beacon. You list a 'base of operations' (ie a planet/legrange), a max service distance, the service provided, and your rates (with a standard rate comparison and your reputation all in a row). From there haulers can see what players are active in the area interested in scouting/escorting. They know your reputation. They know your rates, and they know your your service range all before making contact. Even beyond combat it would be cool to know a medical ship was around hurston, ready to help for 10,000uec before I attempted a bunker mission. I think it would also be cool if pirates had an idea how many scouts for hire are in an area that might make a raid more difficult. I honestly think if you provide this information on both ends with an easy interface, people would be more willing to use it.
People have no idea the ways we pirate them, find out what they have before they even call their ship, set up interdiction on their trade routes.. it goes deep, and secrets should be guarded.
At the moment, doing pirate was not much profit. sometime need to spend over an hour to found a target and than just got 20-30k. But that is more fun with friends/multiplay.
Easy, there is not enough money in it. Sure they can run escorts, but those escorts would need payment.. so the choices are, don't make money regularity with an escort. Or 2. Make money and maybe get pirated now and then. That and some people just wanna run alone and not socialize.
This is why trading in smaller ships is a good middle ground, the RAFT will also have a big upper hand once loading and unloading will be modeled correctly (+armor). You'll park, stay in the ship to unload and load, then fly off in your flying tank of a cargo vessel.
Its pure fantasy to think that traders are ever going to routinely hire player escorts. If the game is built around that principle then it is doomed to fail. You absolutely need either NPC escorts and/or regions where solo traders (who will make up the overwhelming bulk of trader/hauler players) are safe from player pirates, or the solo trader has to be given a significant probability of escape. If they require people to group up to play the game they they won't retain players. Its that simple. You're approaching the game from a active PvP focused Org angle, that isn't the angle most players are going to be playing from.
That was incredibly fair for you to make that offer to the cat pilot. I've always imagined it would be possible to negotiate a deal to run cargo for a cut of profit.
Let me ask the same: How do people justify stealing things from other players? -- Because the mechanics of the game allows it. The ability to attack other players. -- But it does not make it a good thing right out of the box! While pirates can sit on their leather-seated warmed heavy fighter seats and just shoot freighters out of the box, their victims don't have out of the box mechanics for hiring security and escorted, before any piracy happens. I am sorry, but I think this is something the game should offer a little more. Because, as a single trader, who do you want to ask? The big guilds that “offer” service to protect you, like your friendly Mafia from the neighborhood? Joining Trader-Guilds? Or choose random people that 100% not going to scam and kill you once you're on route? If you're a trader, like I sometimes do… I may give a couple of thoughts here: a) As Avenger said: Be on guard all the time. Keep all eyes open and not leave your seat while on Quantum. b) Have little backup plans in mind what to do when you get attacked. Going back to the planets safe zone works. What also works fine is trying to out-quantum the pirates by using the OMs. c) Consider using smaller ships when you're alone. Big freighters feel like a turtle on its back. d) Parley !! Just joking.. never tested.
One of my most enjoyable moments of SC happened when I was pirated. Way back in 3.5. I had a load of cargo. A fellow had boarded my ship without me realizing it. I just cleared the atmosphere when I hear, "Hello, Citizen." Needless to say I was startled and about pooped myself. Then I saw gunfire off the front of my ship. The fellow said, "You may have noticed the Warden off your port side that just fired a volley across your nose. We are pirating you. We want 100,000 credits or we will blow your ship." I told them that I actually was just getting started and only had a load of scrap which probably was worth about 70k total. They then proceeded to extort me for only 20k. I was so excited that I was pirated that I ran and told my wife and son. I may not have made any profit from that load, but I will always remember that as a highlight of my career playing Star Citizen.
As the gameplay dynamics currently stand, there is no "police force" aspect either, whether that be from players or from NPCs. I'm not talking about calling for help in general chat or requesting an escourt either, though those are great points as mentioned in the video! Running high value cargo is very profitable but as you guys are demonstrating... the player base simply doesn't understand the gameplay mechanics enough to help themselves. As a frequent cargo runner I actually like the pressure from pirates but I do think the current meta of piracy gameplay will be greatly muted once more systems come online. With 3.20, I hope that cargo is scaled enough that there is incentive to employ crew members and run a ship with full turrets. It would also help if we had a party system or ship system mechanic that could allow crew members to "buy in" on a portion of the cargo run to earn a higher percentage vs. being paid only a 10
It's been my experience that most pirate groups ARE like this. Mongrel Squadron, TPBL, and others. I do my best to become friends with as many pirates as possible, that way, they tend to leave me alone. There are plenty of cargo haulers out there, they don't HAVE to pick on me.
![TWO SEAT PVP TIER LIST [StarCitizen 3.21]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/MWQ6JYgis9g/mqdefault.jpg)
![АЛАУДИНОВ у Скабеевой: эти их ВСУ нас НЕ ДОГОНЯТ 😁 [Пародия]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/an0anqU4WGQ/mqdefault.jpg)
In my opinion... People will not hire guards unless said cargo is profitable enough to pay everyone. (Which most cargo is not.) And even if they hire guards, a dedicated pirate group like this can just focus on the cargo ship and ignore the guards. CIG has given the tools the pirates need, but given nothing to the cargo haulers. My prediction is, pirates could be so successful they will kill anyone's desire to move cargo. There is only so many times someone's going to lose 1 to 2 million before they just give up that activity and find some other way to make money.
I'd be down for a cut of like 20% profits to guard a trade ship. Sometimes its about the experience so some of the guys I play with, about 8 of us would all be there for the fun of it. Def think traders need to make friends for those big big runs. Never hurts.
@@tj7094 But you cannot balance the whole economy of a game loop to require other players to work for you for 10% of what they usually earn when doing something else. That's just nuts!
@@jackzero5639 You misunderstood me, its a % of the profits. So if you earn 1 million, you pay 200k. Literally just a ballpark. I enjoy the hell out of just playing as do my friends.. we would do escorts for fun and or cheap. You could also say, if attacked you pay a bonus for successfully defending the cargo. So a min and max. I wouldn't ever want to take 50% of someones earnings.
The risk is, at the moment, with the traders. What we need would be a player-bound reputation system. As it is, whether you are known of being a pirate is simply a matter of other people knowing your name-tag and the reputation attached to that.
What we need would be a system in which people who continously attack trade-ships get something like an "official file". Though personally I'd think it'd be better to attach that not to the player but to specific ships, which in turn requires the game to recognize individual ships by ID. It would also give more importance to choosing the right ship.
Anyhow, so, if a ship that is known to have been active in criminal activities apporaching, this should be dotted on your radar not in blue, but maybe yellow-ish / orange, to indicate it's likely hostility, but also state that this not necessarily a definite hostile. And such a reputation should be gained by continously partaking in criminal activities and not after the first few incidents.
I mean, there'd be something to it to become an infamous pirate, with an infamous ship. Such an infamous ship also shouldn't be allowed to land anywhere. The problem is consequences. As for now the pirate does not really suffer consequences, even if you get caught and hauled into prison, you are out in no time. And putting people into the prison loop for too much time is also not a viable solution.
So the negative consequences for the pirates have to be dire enough, to have them take a high risk when attacking guarded convoys / traders, but also not purely negative to remove any incentive to go for piracy.
@@VulpesChama actually sounds pretty cool. Only lawful players should be blue imo. If you go red or commit crimes within a certain time you should have a 2nd color like you explained. It would let players to at the very least be wary of you. For my friends and myself I keep a list of names from pirates in chat. We can quickly check the list of known pirates so we can avoid any beacons with them. There was a time where medical calls were all traps. Maybe take it as far as your in game chat being different from others color wise. Just so people know.. I mean the crime system is basically all knowing anyways. I don't see it being harmful.
I think the issue with the game loop for traders is that routes don’t pay enough to justify escorts so just bearing the brunt is worth it
And during past resource rushes they made so much money they'd self destruct as a screw you to the pirates because they were making so much
Honest question how much profit is enough?
@@dddj158 Honestly it'll probably be when reputation and consequences for ship and cargo loss come into it.
IE you aren't licensed to run this commodity unless you have xyz rep tier and missions to haul it require a min party size
@@dddj158honest question, how much is your time worth to fly escorts for a trader? And then add to that the notion that you have to be three players like avenger one.
A1 already knows this as does everyone else. A 20 percent profit margin is nothing and hiring escorts would make it even less. Piracy has all the advantages and been given even more (soft death to increase profitability, slower cargo loading gives them more time to access and organize and further limiting trade routes so the fish are in a smaller barrel to shoot) have been added to the advantages pirates had over cargo ships (light fighters are pound for pound tankier than cargo ships, piracy promotes group play through profitability and no personal risk of expense to the pirate.) The combat community is the loudest in Star Citizen and they are slowing turning the game into GTA in space instead of a boring industrial game with exploration, data running, corporate espionage...etc; loops promised but wildly neglected for combat.
To be honest, trading doesn't make enough to convince my friend group to stay with me rather than doing bounty hunter/bunker missions. My response to the increase in piracy is to just use a smaller trade ship and that's fine mostly. Though I rarely get hailed to parley or any dialog, I also have noticed getting attacked a lot even when I'm empty essentially getting ganked flying in. This part I don't understand.
Yep, I'm still pretty green but when I started I just wanted to do a little rock mining. I got a Cutty Black and a Roc and proceeded to get consistently blown out of the sky. (I'm a horrible pilot) So I got the Corsair!...Now even though I'm a crap pilot I don't run into to many problems
If you're getting attacked coming in, those are NPCs.
@@RichardRoberts-iy7fx yes because pirates are scum that only attack weaker targets.
Maybe because it is just a boring gameloop. Even if it was the most profitable gameloop in the game, I will never to trading because gameplay speaking it's boring as fuck without any interaction.
Most Pirates don't do piracy for money, they do it for gameplay and interaction between players. Piracy is by nature something you do against the will of the target, it's the whole point of being pirated, you don't want that but you have to deal with it. Players do piracy because the gameloop i challenging, it's a teamwork that require different skills and role to play. So you need to train, constently adapt your strategy from patch to patch. There are strategies that pirates don't use because it makes it too easy, we like challenge. It takes hours to find a prize to claim and from the moment you've spot one, anything can go wrong between bugs from 30k and players reaction. If you're not careful enough, you'll be spotted and the pilot will bedlog before he's engaged in combat and you loose the prize... Each situation is unexpected.
Pirates killed me once in a Vulture. What for there was only a couple crates of scrap metal. I think people just like killing ships in game because they can. I went back to my dead ship and body and they left the crates. Why? Did they think I was going to dog fight them in a Vulture? When they started the attack I just backspaced because I knew I had nothing to fight for.
The best way to prevent piracy is to make it not worth it. Don’t hire escorts, hire people who will drop the cargo out the back one at a time while you’re flying around. If pirates have to spend hours flying around picking up crates one at a time, they’ll likely give up. Sure you didn’t get it, but neither did they. That’s a win
I like the way you think.
That’s a good idea.
The thing is some pirates are simply bullying their pray and targets by trash talking and stuff. I had something happen to a friend yesterday where they boarded his ship, killed him, and started making fun of him before they stole all his stuff. We went after them and they resorted to ramming because they couldn't win regularly and then went on to say things like 'ramming is also a win'. These kinds of pirates are becoming more and more common in the verse, where there's no empathy whatsoever. The best pirate says nothing to you, steals your shit, makes their money and leaves. The roleplaying pirate who wants to have a good time will do things similar to what you just did here in this video, and try to make a social interaction out of it. Then you have the dicks.
At a certain point they cease to become "pirates" and more just regular "trolls." Which CIG does tacitly promote with the way things are "balanced" (or not) currently.
Let's be real here: when the servers are getting bigger and the game attrackts a much younger audience, those interactions will most likely become even more common.
Gamers will be gamers, and you're not gonna change that by crying on spectrum.
That's why you need scouts; That's why you need protection; That's why you need to be vigilant.
The possibility of running into anyone is so unlikely, being security is so boring. Without more npc pirates I don't think there are the incentives to sit in a turret for hours. Case in point, how often do you enjoy running security? It doesn't feel fair to blame the player base for desperately trying to find some way to enjoy the game.... Obviously piracy is part of the game and should give us emergent gameplay.... But at the moment the game is so empty the only ones playing are solo players. That's fine, but there is also no high sec space for them.
Tbh piracy is one of the most engaging gameplay loops. Wanna cargo run? Looting in a pirate group while being hunted down by bounty hunters is a hell of a rush for that. Dogfight? ... well piracy is always PVP so it's go that in spades. Solo or group play? Piracy works for both and can become super intricate on both sides. Hacking and electronics? Well I think piracy is the only ones rn that really deal with that on a regular basis. Salvaging? Well salvage the wrecks you cause. The only things not covered rn is mining and even then when part manufacturing comes into play I'm sure any big pirate org is gonna have a dedicated team to just supply the team with everything they need instead of buying it or stealing it from somewhere si the mining will come into play eventually
this is where your org comes in, it will matter more when we start jumping system, just look at eve gate camping into low sec
I run my C2 full of Byrle solo. Run between Microtech and Crusader. Where it is bought cheapest and sold for the most. Makes just about 400k per run. I can do 3 of those in just over an hour.
I run solo because I'm greedy and have no friends! 🙂So, I have to minimize the initial risk. Know your environment. Any interdiction ships in the area, move on automatically.
Those abandoned ships, check the tree lines and do your best to make sure no one is hiding out.
Never use the cargo doors to enter/exit your ship. Use the ladder or elevator. Minimizes the risk of someone inviting themself onto your ship. Never leave your doors open.
If possible, before you take off, make sure your quantum drive is spooled and locked. If it won't let you, find an OM marker or something in orbit and lock onto that so you are ready to git as soon as it clears.
If you do get interdicted, turn around and head to the nearest armistice zone. Stay high enough in atmosphere so that if you do get soft deathed, your ship doesn't survive the crash. (That just minimizes the cargo that can be recovered, less for the bad guys.)
Or you can self destruct before you are soft deathed. The equivalent of combat logging which takes away all the fun. Not recommended.
And last if it your thing, you can hope to negotiate a mutually acceptable extortion price.
Put a Mule in the empty space in front of the elevator and self destruct it when your ship is soft deathed.
@@diegomolinaf good idea.
@@diegomolinaf The is a Genius idea.
Not enough profits to pay someone to make it worth their time. No means of secure
game recruitment besides asking in Global which opens up all kinds of extra risk. Even if you do pay someone, most experienced pirate groups will crush your 1 escort anyway so in the end it doesn't really matter
Why fly people this way? Easy ... Escorts are useless against organized pirates .... and unorganized pirates are no danger. As long as you can't insure cargo, there's no reason to take escorts.
The Risk lies 100% on the side of the trader ... no matter if they have an escort or not.
The majority is ready for piracy... but the game isn't ready for it. Pirates get mechanic after mechanic to make their life easier... but something easy as an insurance isn't there.
Technically the only reasonable response is to self-destruct and get back into your seat for another trade route ... simply because that's more profitable than to deal with pirates in ANY way.
Get CIG to actually balance Risk and Reward and you'll see much different behavior.
Edit: Besides that... To encounter a pirate you have to be super stupid tho ... ... like following the "best" trade route.
Why self destruct? It will reduce your loaded cargo. So the pirate will take less time to transfer it into their cargo hold. So they will have more time to hunt you down again.
I agree with much of what you're saying. The only thing I would like to add is: join an Org of good repute or form one yourself. That way you can pool money into building that insurance system you're asking for.
@@professorrhyyt3689 I'm not a fan of large orgs or god forbid lead one. That just causes Spectrum-level Drama all the time. Granted, It's the only way to find reliable escorts tho. But honestly.... You have to really be stupid to run into pirates. So there's no reason anyway. It would just make PvP encounters of any type as a trader much less of a loss if there was proper insurance. It would shut up most people who complain about PvP and add additional willing participants to the pool, which benefits PvP players. ... So insurance would be a win for everyone involved.
@@vonrosphe3098 Wouldn't matter, because you wouldn't use the same route again (unless you're really really stupid and take the same route) And even if pirates finish faster ... An organized group will already be on the hunt when the others are still transferring cargo.
Death of a spaceman man? You gonna be made of metal with this thinking. Oh and you can be captured by said pirates and trades for money so you have that working against you. 😂
Pirates are why I only haul quartz in my c2. Sure I only get about 80-90k profit per run, but if I lose out. The thought of the pirates having to move 696 scu of quartz is hilarious.
The main reason not to hire an escort is simple, it doesn't pay.
A competent combat pilot can make several hundred thousand credits an hour doing bounties or other combat missions. The cargo pilot can't afford to pay that from trading profits, even with a ship like the C2. And don't forget that from the escorts point of view, bounties are far more entertaining than sitting there watching a Caterpillar fly back and forth for an hour. There is very little incentive to act as an escort pilot outside of for fun with friends.
And from the cargo pilots side, you are rarely attacked by pirates. The profit loss from the rare pirate attack is less than the profit loss from paying an escort for every trade run. You can consider losing one out of every X runs to pirates and/or bugs as a cost of doing business as a cargo ship owner/operator. Until that loss is greater than the escort payout, it just doesn't make sense to hire an escort.
When the Hull C is introduced it might offer a fun change to this dynamic. That ship is so large that the profits might be high enough to comfortably cover the cost of an escort pilot. Not to mention, it's such a large target that they might be attacked often enough to make it worth having an escort with you on every trip. Higher profit = ability to hire an escort. Higher risk = escort pilot doesn't sit there twiddling their thumbs all night. And of course, more valuable cargo = more enticing target for piracy. Really it's potentially a very win win scenario.
Although, in the long run, I'm still hoping for an eventual system with both low and high security areas. High security offering lower profit but relative safety from player pirates. Low security offering higher profit but you are open to attack. There is a part of the playerbase that will just never want to interact with other players. They simply want to enjoy their space trucking in peace. Leaving them a place to play is important, we all have to share the same sandbox after all. No reason to go over to the kid by themselves in the corner of the box and kick sand in their face until they run away from the park. And you never know, leave them alone for now and they might eventually come over to see how you are playing when they get bored with whatever they are doing.
Not to mention it's good keeping some safer areas around for new players to cut their teeth against NPC's before heading out and engaging skilled PVP pilots. Few things can scare a new player away from a game faster than getting ganked within the first half hour of installing the game.
You have valid points but i disagree. The risk is part of the fun. Its not microsoft flight simulator. If moving cargo was guaranteed to be safe every time, it would be the most boring thing ever. I got pirated on my first week and it was awesome. Now im a pirate
@@alexeizaraiov You entirely missed his point, but thanks for trying to comment I guess. Risk is meaningless without reward. If there's no reward.... then it's just masochism. Maybe you dig that. Everyone has their own fetish.
@@alexeizaraiov not guaranteed, but it also shouldn't be less risky to pirate a cargo hauler than to haul yourself
@@alexeizaraiovSo you traded the high risk profession for the zero risk profession (there is no risk being a pirate) and you want us to believe you love the risk.
@@jimrussell4062He's full of crap anyway. He gave up the high-risk profession for the zero-risk one.
Dear Avenger One,
as you said yourself, the margins of running cargo are already extremely low. It's so low that you earn less then what a single combat pilot can earn PvE. Therefore, haulers that WANT to have scouts, gunners or escorts would need to rely on other players to literally work for them for free, especially given the fact that you still carry the full risk, and even one or two escorts aren't a guaranty that you're safe.
In my opinion, the only reason why we still see haulers, is because the chance of being pirated is still so small, that haulers are able to still make a profit. Many non-haulers claim, that if margins where increased, haulers would still not hire escorts, and I think that's true. But not, because haulers don't want to hire escorts, but instead because of two issues:
- If you don't play in a fixed group, even if you were able to pay escorts good money, hiring escorts will always be a hassle: You need to find players willing to do the job, who are also trustworthy. And these need to travel to your location first. And every time, someone drops out, you have to start looking again.
- In contrast, as long as the chances of being pirated aren't over 50%, spending 50% or more of your margin will mean that you'll earn less then if you just accept the risk of loosing a load now and then. If you then factor in that you'll likely able to make twice as much cargo runs if you don't permanently have to stop to find escorts, it's evident why haulers would still chose this option even if they are able to pay escorts.
Also, imagine that haulers would be able to pay HUGE amounts of money to escorts so every combat pilot would want to fly as an escort, so finding an escort would be quick and fast. If every hauler would always hire two escorts, pirates would just start to attack in larger groups. So all haulers would need even more escorts. So pirates would form even larger packs. So haulers would need even more escorts. This will never work.
Regarding turrets, IMHO without NPCs we'll never see turrets of haulers being manned on a regular basis, because putting a player in a combat ship will always be the much superior option. Not only is sitting in a turret even more boring then flying as an escort as long as nothing happens. Even in combat, it is a lot less fun, as most of the time, you wait for targets to even come into your firing arc. If you have a single turret manned in a hauler, fighters can just as well ignore it due to the limited arc. And even if you have manned all turrets in a hauler, fighters can just escape the weapon range to regenerate their shields once they take damage while other fighters keep the haulers shields from regenerating. Plus if you get interdicted in deep space, a single mantis could extort you by just keeping you from jumping while staying out of weapon range. And if those players fly fighters instead of manning your turrets, they can scout the area. Also, engineering will never be engaging enough to keep multiple turret gunners occupied during the majority of the time where you're not attacked.
As for the question why some players just suicide/log if they get pirated, I can only guess. I assume that they already consider the cargo as a total loss, probably because in 95% of the time, that's the case. And so they rather decide to respawn/switch servers, claim their ship and continue doing what they like (hauling) then spending even more time in the uncomfortable situation of seeing your cargo being stole and your progress ruined by other players.
Yes, this
I like the "space pirate" theme, it's gotta be part of the game. BUT at this rate, by 3.22 the new gripe from players wont be pirates. It'll be people telling CIG to add npc traders/ships to take advantage of because all human players will be pirates. Its too easy, zero consequences. zero motivation to be a good guy. etc..
I can see the meme of 2 mantis pilots fighting over who's pirating who!
It won't happen, because Piracy isn't that easy, you need training, coordination, you need to know the other gameplay loops and it's not that lucrative, when you have to empty 500+ 1 scu boxes with a tractor beam from a C2 to load your prizeship all by yourself it takes hours.
These Stats announced in this video are more than suspect without any proof. Even The biggest Pirate Org such as Mongrel Squad running 24h/ ops on the 3 regions (US/EU/Asia) with more than 1000k active members can't make that money and they are all well trained pirates doing this for many years. It's about 12 targets/day, 60 targets in 5 days and this implies that each target was a hit without anything go wrong.
@@sebxcore27 lmao piracy is fuck all risky and way too easy to not do it.
I would say it's because it's what Salty Mike said. Most of the community are not PVP people and just want to get on and do a game loop that is chill and makes money. I agree with a lot of people, you don't make enough money from most if not all cargo to afford an escort.
So I attempted a little bit of hauling in 3,19 (not the best patch for it). Here are my conclusions and please note that the ship I was using is the 400I (Yest it isn't a hauler but I never flew one before and since I was playing solo in this patch I went for speed over space)
Here is what I found.
1 Solo a MSR or a 400I make pretty good small profit haulers.
2 There are a ton of haulers in the game as the amount of times I could not even fill the 400I was numerous.
3 The only interdiction ship that was a real problem was the cutty blue and personally think it should be slowed down a little and is too fast.
4 A lot of pirates are under equipped to deal with these fast ships, so solo I will always RUN a fast ship. (Most fighters are pretty slow)
5 Considering I only did high risk trades to try and find pirates i.e. drugs and gold I was only pirated about 13 times out of about 70+ hauls. Out of the 13 only twice was there a interdiction ship and one I was able to string out the mantis from its accompanying fighters and kill it and escape and the other time they actually got me. The rest of them i could just simply outrun witch would not have been the case in a dedicated hauler. (I will add that there are some truly terrible pilots trying to pirate these day's and If your they guy reading this that got recked flying a gladius trying to kill a 400I and lost, Take an A1 class)
All and all my experience hauling was a fun one but will definitely not become my chill money maker. I do a lot of PVE content as I am awaiting the return of my org when it is a bit more stable. (I will revisit this with a dedicated hauler at some stage but I got hit hard with the ship reset a I just spent all my auec just before the patch hit and lost all my ships)
As a conclusion the worst loop I tried is medical and if anything needs a relook it is that or I just had terrible luck.
Gladius pilot is heated right now lol
I think the most issues have people who are just doing trading and nothing else. My main gameplay loops are merc and bounty hunting, thus I am comfortable in ship vs. ship fight, even against multiple targets in PvE and PvP (though PvP is a more a sidething for me) and also ground based combat.
Because of that, when I go for trading and mining, I always have an eye on my radar and the people around me and am ready for hostilities and I am ready to fight back or run.
But people who do not enjoy or engage in any combat gameplay are likely people not comfortable with those elements and actually try to avoid these as much as possible. And they have a much harder time when being attacked and I'd even say that some of them have no idea of other combat ships capabilities.
If you do ship combat from time to time, you get a feeling for which ships are a threat to you in whatever situation. Pure traders simply lack.... experience in that matter.
@@VulpesChama I agree and to that point I made a bunch of money in the 400I for two reasons in my opinion.
Number one is the value of the hold is too little for pirate (and there were stages where I was making a 100k per run which is plenty for solo) but my ship choice of the 400I was made because I was running alone. 400i is 6.5mil in game and is more expensive than a C2 pretty much all cargo ships in game.
I am also sure just the effort of trying to chase down my choice of ship and the S3 shield stopped a lot of pirates. Like I said, I went for the riskiest goods and locations to see how bad piracy is. (Surprise it isn't that bad if you make the correct ship choice for your intent, I did not even care if I saw a ship like a mantis or a Cutty blue because even if they could keep up the fighters couldn't).
Haulers need to make a change in their concepts, and I think A1 is trying to install that. One good choice of ship saved me from being pirated and I still made money and if I had the same approach in a C2 I would have been pirated at least 50% of the time. (I was truly careless in my approach and to be honest if you are in a C2 or Cat as a solo player a cutty blue can pirate you no problem but the 400i I could get out of my seat and get into a turret and put enough pressure on it to disengage except for once bad choices were made). I got so confident that almost all my shields were facing rearwards when I took of from a purchase, by my calculations about 60 000 hp to chew through wile trying to catch up, 1250mp/s outruns all the meta fighters by almost a 100m/s that gap gets big quick.
So you attack people, steal their stuff and then blame them? Shouldn't have been wearing that dress in that system huh? Was asking for it. Completely ridiculous argument you make, acting as if there are 100s of people sitting around just waiting for the chance to fly next to a cargo ship for 2 hours.
@@308damage Honestly, whether I fly from bounty target to bounty target, or other mission location to location, or just fly next to some trader....
That's not really that much of a difference. As it is, it is just much more profitable to run bunkers or do bounty than get hired by some trader.
If they'd put in the credits, there'd be plenty of people willing to do the job.
If you're getting pirated, it's usually by a skilled group. If you're hiring others to protect you, it's usually not going to be a skilled group. There's also going to be a lesser quality of communication between the trader and the hired crew versus the pirate group which is generally going to be a closer group of friends. The groups of pirates will always outnumber the group of hired personnel just purely based on fun factor. Pirating someone and taking their shit is virtually a guarantee of loot and fun, whereas escorting a trader is no guarantee anything interesting will happen at all, and if something DOES happen.. you'll probably get wrecked regardless. The issue is how to get SKILLED players to do the boring work of escorting cargo. Currently the incentive structure isn't there, and probably won't be for a long time. I'm not sure if you have any videos of this type, but I would like to see a realistic perspective on what it's like to escort traders. My hunch is that it won't make for a very interesting video.
Dont overestimate how many people you need as an escort. basically all you realy need is a scout that runs the qt routes ahead of you. And if he gets interdicted he will let you know not to take that route. Same goes for going down to mining facilities. If you head to a mining facility and you see any other threat going in. Do not run this route! Yes it sucks for you but it sucks even more if your cargo gets taken. Seriously haulers have it pretty easy because most ships are very hard to hide. A1 mentions this in the beginning. Thing is most people do not have the awerness to spot danger in the verse... and once they do its to late. Stay save out there!
@@CabakLaudenz "most ships are hard to die" clearlynever shot at a catt loaded with gold, it takes maybe 8-12 shots up the arse from an ion to soft death it. the c2 is the only real option if you want even the slightest chance thanks to shields and manouvering ability.
as a pirate i know just how stacked in my favour it is when i go solo hunting, heck i nearly solo killed a c2 in a mantis the other day 2xs3 laser cannons took me near 10 mins though before we colided. but yeah ship goes pop very fast if you know what your doing.
@@bigapestudios9847 "most ships are very hard to *hide* ". You just wrote a whole paragraph that has nothing to do with anything because your dyslexic ass couldn't read "hide". So cringe.
Most of the organized pvp crowd seem to be pirates, and judging from the number of videos that I see on UA-cam, the majority of traders are solo players who have no chance against an organized group of fighters. It's going to become a real problem for the game if everyone who wants to do organized pvp is a pirate. Pack jumping a C2 or a Caterpillar , or Freelancer with unmanned turrets can't be much of a challenge.
Like in real life. Most advantages are on the pirate site. They are willing to fight and they trained for it.
They are working in a group most of the time.
The Solo trader is in a bad spot if the get caught. You can try to outsmart the pirate. Take faster ships. Take non popular trade routes. Take detour to your destination. And try to negotiate with the pirates.
An insurance or NPC gunners would help.
But all this would also lower the profit of the trader. And many traders don't want to lower their money/hour.
Later on (Thoon!) there will be about nine npc ships on one pc ship so there will be less of a threat to pc traders as in-it-for-the-money pirates will focus on these.
@@vonrosphe3098 If most the advantages are on the pirate's side "in real life", then why aren't 90% of ships being pirated every day on the high seas? Why is it just a tiny number in isolated undefended areas? Also, there's no "fight" when that happens. The insurance company just writes it off and the crew is usually unharmed (unless the pirates are dumbasses and the military kills them in a hostage mission) Once you ask yourself what works in REAL life... then you can definitely see what is MISSING in Star Citizen to enable what you think you want.
@@vonrosphe3098 Pirates have the advantage irl? My guy, go touch some grass. You've been inside too long.
@@jimrussell4062 Ok, I see. I meant WHEN it comes to the fight the pirates have the advantage. Not before.
They should introduce Emergency Distress Beacons when you're still alive and engaged by anybody with a crimestat - like a live bounty you attach to somebody and put some AUEC behind it.
Let's say A1 and crew attack a trading vessel, the Victim can lock A1, put a bounty of 100k to kill A1 which goes out system wide and creates a Quantum Beacon to jump to. Makes it more fun for the pirates who are generally seeking some good and fun engagements. Basically like a 911 call, but privatised.
Also - increase profit margins on trading to enable people to pay security forces and improve the risk vs reward for the traders.
Some simple mechanics to improve both the Pirate gameplay AND the Trading Gameplay AND good guy security gameplay.
Issue being that doesn't counter ship jacking piracy ie where you are ambushed on foot after buying cargo or before you sell.
Additionally any sort of security response that has a travel time gives the pirates time to either board and take the ship or to grab what loot they can and leave.
I've always thought that the way they implemented combat assist beacons was not ideal. They should be like mini events involving anyone that wants to help. Both PvE vs npcs and against player pirates.
@@gyratingwolpertiger6851 This is kinda being addressed by CIG now, as they are planning to implement in 3.20 that ships become trespassing areas for anyone but the owner and their group members, making it effectively legal to defend your ship against trespassers, while it remains a crime for the trespasser to attack the actual crew.
This will also change soon once the TTK goes up. They have iterated many times that TTK is way too low.
And creates a quantum beacon? God markers for bounties aren't good enough, now y'all want qt beacons lmao how about no
It needs to be balanced or it will be messed up and go the way EVE has for so many. I want piracy in the game, and I am a old "carebear" that will never be a pirate. However there has to be things in game that are available to a solo player or a small group to keep from being griefed constantly. Being pirated here and there the excitement of fighting and escaping or even losing is awesome! The challenge of trying to get rich in a high pirate area. This isn't hard to do, low income patrolled areas, mayday broadcast to local ships as would happen for ships in our oceans. It gives the Rats, the hauler and the potential defender all a gameplay loop. I think there is so much potential for all sides to have fun. It shouldn't be easy to be a pirate, a hauler or a defender.
To Avenger One: My first video game was pong. I am closer to 60 than 50. I have always enjoyed video games as a pastime and have shared that passion with my wife and three children, who are all now adults and sharing with their children. Having said all that as background I will share that I have participated in pvp across multiple games and platforms and have never truly enjoyed it. I have found the large majority of PVP players to be crass, rude, and a tad narcissistic. When I came to SC I was not sure what to expect. I found your page a core skills video and over time you and the SC PVP community have changed my opinion significantly. How you may ask. Your teaching style, videos like this one where you show the larger potential of PVP are a few of the reasons.
I have been practicing but it is unlikely that I will be an exceptional pvp player by virtue of age, health, and deteriorating eye-hand coordination. I am going to get a decent joystick setup to, hopefully, offset some of the issues, well at least with regards to an old guy with good joysticks vs a young person with a mouse and keyboard LOL.
Keep up the great work.
I've run cargo on and off for a year and a half now. I have been pirated exactly zero times. Pirates are a tiny, yet loud, minority. And let's be honest, what escort worth its salt will work for the peanuts I am able to offer them? Over time I will make millions, sure, but a single trip is certainly not profitable enough for me to split with anyone else. Traders are many, and with the current (lack of an) economy, with shared supply across the shards, you will be lucky to haul anything of notable value anyways.
They’re cavalier because nothing in this game matters
True haha, i think they simply don't care lol 😂
And to be honest, most pirates will kill you anyway so why bother.
Then why are people playing it "right now"?
Run all your cargo hauls with escorts, 150k profit per run, but each run takes far longer to set up. Then a patch comes and you instantly lose 20 runs of cargo in lost ships that you hopefully have the saved money to rebuy.
@@JollygreenFullSteamstockholm, masochism, copium, sunk cost, and the hope to enjoy space fantasies
Your tips on avoiding getting jumped in a dark space alley are very much appreciated. Your advice on jumping people in dark space alleys is helpful as well :D
Although I would suggest that saying "Why not just talk?" and "...it's up to you" misses valid reasons why some people might not respond in VOIP or chat.
This would include physical limitations...one example: SC does not appear to have much in the way of Accessibility Settings for people with vision issues. Even without vision problems I end up missing hails/invites because the HUD text is impossible to read when flying in certain conditions.
And until CIG provides universal translators, some players won't be able to communicate with you outside of their native language. Those folks are not likely to use General Chat.
Consider also that 80% of my experiences with voice in SC have been initiated by 13 year old trolls and NOT by people trying to engage in a legit gameplay loop. Seriously, If all you ever got were calls from children in the neighborhood or telemarketers trying to take your money, who could blame you for never picking up the phone?
I'm sure you're right about the future of cargo and that people hauling boxes of gold will eventually take the risk/reward equation a lot more seriously and hopefully SC will fix the UI and provide some accessibility...
But until then, maybe you should try semaphore.
Shoot them in Morse code?
o7
The thing about piracy is that the risk to the pirate is relativly small comprared to the risk of the trader. They need to make piracy more risky to the pirate imo.
Yes. The haulers should get a crew together at minimum or get escorts or take the suggestions in this video xD
The thing about piracy is that the pirate is the one doing all this setup, "what ships should we bring, should we worry about distorting or just blowing up the ship or to extort.
The only thing to make it more difficult is to up security ether by having turret gunners or by having fighter escorts.
Otherwise what are you suggesting because there is a lot of work to piracy already that you don't see.
@@joppa560 Bullcrap. Places that have functional government and security don't operate on the premise that everyone hires a private security contractor to escort them to the grocery store or the bank. The security system of that state or city operate to make sure that criminals don't simply camp out in front of the auto parts store and rob every person that doesn't have enough muscle to kill them all. Because.... well obviously the auto parts store can't even exist in such an environment
Fun times. I love that piracy is part of the game. It's cool and exciting. The other day I was making that gold run. I landed at MT at SMO-18. I happened to glance up and I saw the comm array was off. I knew someone was watching me at that point. I sat there for about 15 minutes. Then took off empty. Sure enough - I got attacked soon after I left the armistice zone. I did make a run for it and my raft took a ton of punishment but pulled through and I was able to warp out. A single attacker and no interdicting ability. Not sure if I missed you making the point of this story - but comm array off means someone is up to no good. Even with it on, it doesn't mean one is safe. Situational awareness, as you say.
Comm array up or down means nothing really. Most attackers I've seen are blue. Clearing CS is trivial for anyone with a large group to hold the facility.
Sometimes mate i really feel you overthink things. She's simply a game and most folk just want to go fly a space ship. SC by design kinda makes that hard, you know the whole time sink thing. Add trying to sort support out while you fly cargo is just something that doesn't happen. If it all turns out to not be fun they'll go spend their time with other entertainment. I dont see the attraction of pirating, careful planning, short burst of excitement....... then lots of stacking boxes. SC is rapidly becoming a half billion dollar game of tetris😂 Nice advice though 👍
A 30k is a higher risk than a pirate
They probably didnt answer the phone because they dont know how to. And chat bugs out so damn often they may not have seen it. I havent had a day where chat didnt freeze up on me.
I solo haul because i dont typically have the play time to set up and run an escort haul, escorts are just as likely to be pirates, and the profits dont feel good enough to split, especially during times where beryl starts getting low (which may be always. Seems to always be so when im able to play my few hours). Had only seen a pirate while hauling once and was able to stop my quantum jump and jump another direction before they could successfully block me.
Have faced much more danger while mining and the amount of work and profit from it being so much lower i usually just try to go full Ork and ram (have succeeded once lol, gotten away other times surprisingly).
Add in how often things are lost to actual bugs (my favorite is when the ship rejects you and leaves you EVA’d mid jump as your ship speeds off lol, my least fave being losing 10 mil in ships to a patch) and it just doesnt seem to matter much. Likely an emotion that will lead to peeps like me leaving eventually (a bad thing for pirates).
Ive only got a couple hours a few days a week to play between work, gym, family, and friends, and the orgs ive joined that could be trustworthy as escorts tend to be active during times im not able to be. Not sure there is a solution, maybe higher risks for pirates and higher rewards for lawful?
And there is one thing pirats have to understand, they are the criminals, they are to blame, and victim blaming is not the way to go. Remember, it is not the skirt that is too short.
I was pirated thrice so far. Once I was ROC mining and the pirate hid in the turret, I could not get him out until his buddies arrived. Once I was lead into a trap with a medical rescue beacon and they abused an invisibility bug (in PTU, and they didn't even make a report at the issue council). And once I was attacked by a pirate before calling me, while bringing in my haul of quantanium, which destabilized my cargo and ended my travels in a big boom. The wannabe pirate called me names for "self-destructing" and when I pushed back he began to whine.
Pirates are the "scum of the void" (my in-character rollplay position) and ooc I haven't met a pirate that did not abuse game mechanics, a bug and/or wasn't a self-important and self-righteous snowflake. Ohh, and then there are the marauders that just want to see the world burn.
5 days, +60 haulers = 38mil.. Thats even bigger lie than #Pyro2020
Mind of telling your party size and play hours?
Raw uncut video from that 5 day period?
Info of every ship you attacked, SCU amounts and what cargo they had?
Time to unload/load boxes to your own ship of each of your targets?
Pretty much all this week. Anything from Connie's to carracks... really anything with a cargo bay Party sizes, can't exactly say that but you can gather that from the video
Primarily gold but we took whatever
Sometimes we wouldn't unload the ship we would extort them for their profit but sometimes we'd have to unload upwards of 100+ boxes
Time to unload also can't say that.
We've hit up a lot of ships
Just go back through my twitch vods, ull see a walk tonn there and allt we catch after hours, I don't have the time to verify this for you, so your going to have to go with my word on this but I'm telling the truth.
@@Avenger__One
The donkey said to the tiger:
- "The grass is blue".
The tiger replied:
- "No, the grass is green."
The discussion heated up, and the two decided to submit to arbitration, and for this they went before the lion, the King of the Jungle.
Already before reaching the forest clearing, where the lion was sitting on his throne, the donkey began to shout:
- "His Highness, is it true that the grass is blue?".
The lion replied:
- "True, the grass is blue."
The donkey hurried and continued:
- "The tiger disagrees with me and contradicts and annoys me, please punish him."
The king then declared:
- "The tiger will be punished with 5 years of silence."
The donkey jumped cheerfully and went on his way, content and repeating:
- "The Grass Is Blue"...
The tiger accepted his punishment, but before he asked the lion:
- "Your Majesty, why have you punished me?, after all, the grass is green."
The lion replied:
- "In fact, the grass is green."
The tiger asked:
- "So why are you punishing me?".
The lion replied:
- "That has nothing to do with the question of whether the grass is blue or green.
The punishment is because it is not possible for a brave and intelligent creature like you to waste time arguing with a donkey, and on top of that come and bother me with that question."
The worst waste of time is arguing with the fool or fanatic who does not care about truth or reality, but only the victory of his beliefs and illusions. Never waste time on arguments that don't make sense...
There are people who, no matter how much evidence you present to them, are not in the capacity to understand, and others are blinded by ego, hatred and resentment, and all they want is to be right even if they are not.
@@Rebel338lm what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
I dont run cargo as a trader but i do run all my ores i mine, but in my many year long experience playing star citizen i have only been snared 2 or 3 times by players, every single one i came out on top, all of those times however, i was not doing any sort of cargo running and i have a feel why i never get snared by players during my cargo runs is most likely because i never go straight from one point to another, i always fly a couple mill out towards another planet an drop out and then jump to my destination, sure it takes a extra minute to do so but hey, its worth avoiding the major flight lanes.
Why people take risks when running cargo?
Because if they are risking anything there is a 1% risk they get pirated, a 99% risk they lose the cargo due to bugs.
Maybe with the Hull C some cargo haulers will make enough money to pay for escorts and well, they will need them. Since cargo is stored outside, any ship shooting with ballistics at it would make them detatch with the shields from the hull C at 100%. Not to say that their hull C will be extremely slow and wont outrun any player, doesn't matter the skill of the enemy at this point.
hull c can move only in space, where you can quantum anytime. hull c will be best for solo without guards.
@@aka-47k Im sorry, but do you know that the Mantis and Cutlass Blue exist?
@@Cocaina92 yes they do, but lol one thing if a ship needs to escape atmosphere till QT another if its from station, or can you activate interdiction just at the station?
@@aka-47k with a mantis you can interdict any ship that is jumping. Making a ship that is jumping from CRU L1 to ARC L1 (as example) stop in the middle of deep space and not able to jump anywhere, since the Mantis has a 20km quantum snare bubble arround it.
@@Cocaina92 lol and this work only on inexpirienced traders once, who then proceed to use a diff qt marker to get off course, stop after 10 sec, and then fly to where they want to 100km away off course.
Trading is too unprofitable to hire escorts. Players are not interested either in spending their time escorting another player. There's also no law enforcement to speak of. All of these factors currently make trading quite frankly, a stupid venture right now. Pirates can have their fun but traders aren't having any, so sure pirates can keep pirating but all they are doing is driving away players who are willing to trade. Not to mention the myriad of server hiccups and bugs that make trading unprofitable. Eventually there will be hardly anyone left to pirate. Then what happens? No traders - No piracy.
And until there's some sort of player reputation, the escort you're hiring could be the very pirate that will shoot you down while he calls in his buddies to loot you.
An answer to your question about Parley: Why nobody picks up "the phone"? Nobody trusts the exchange will be worth it. As many people have said already, most "Pirates" are actually griefers. These folks will kill you regardless of your reaction. You may be the Trader initiating the communication, saying "please take my stuff and leave me be" and you get ignored and killed anyhow.
In regards to Security: If we are talking about player Orgs that role-play as security, they are few and far in between. Not to mention there is no way of telling whether an org is security or pirates in disguise. If you are expecting in-game security, such as Crusader/Hurston/ArcCorp/MT, even if they show up (which is rare as heck, unless you are right next to the planet's space port), they are so easy to take out that noob pilots will have no trouble.
Yes, piracy is here to stay, but non-pirates have very few, if any options to defend themselves. CIG is about to implement a ship trespassing feature in 3.20.x. I am mentioning this to highlight how long we may have to wait for proper defense or even legit player rep features.
Also, there is no defense whatsoever against Interdiction, or what you call tackling. As you mentioned to the dude at the end of the video, his shields were up and everything worked as intended. WHAT? (Not actually mad, just bringing a point across).
man that was so good how you brought that frustrated guy on board and showed him that you aren't there to be assholes, you're all just playing a role and having great fun with it.
You aren't there to ruin other peoples fun. You're there to play the role of pirate and have fun interactions with other people who are playing other roles like traders, escorts, fighters & delivery drivers. Being the victim of a pirating attack doesn't have to be miserable. It's all about the communications that force these fun interactions where we can have unique experiences.
This is what the game is all about. So going back to the most important point i think Avenger made in this video. PARLAY. Pick up the receiver and engage the comms. Hey, maybe you can lure the pirates into a false sense of security, and then ram one or something and make a desperate getaway! Maybe you can make them laugh / sympathize and get away scot free, even with some new friends. Theres a million possibilites. Star Citizen has amazing potential for unlimited unique experiences.
“I genuinely want what’s best for this game,” so let’s got be l33t gamers and go harass players who are just trying to enjoy their little part of this game by taking advantage of the fact that it is STILL IN ALPHA (so there is no real in game mechanic to deter piracy yet), and when they don’t like being harassed, bullied, blackmailed, and extorted we’ll tell them, “get used to it cause we aren’t going anywhere.” That’s exactly how you do what’s best for the game. Drive away the players who just want to drive a “space truck” in peace, alone, or maybe do a quick bunker mission after work. Then you can have the Space Fortnite (Star Citizen) all to yourselves. You can PvP yourselves into oblivion and grind this game, that so many people enjoy peacefully, into a soulless piece of garbage just to feed your ego because YOU decided that this video game lets you be a bully, oops sorry pirate. I don’t have the time or inclination to spend time getting better at PvP, or pay someone who is, just because you might be hiding behind an asteroid. It’s obvious that you enjoy being a bully because if you didn’t enjoy ganging up on people you’d just play the PvE content. Not so if you PvP with others who want to, that’s on you, I refer to people who aren’t playing Star Citizen for that. I’m not good at PvP and I don’t care to be but I do think it’s pretty cool to fly a space ship, do some missions, haul some cargo, whatever, without someone just coming along to ruin it just because they can. Yes, definitely, good for this game, or your ego, perhaps. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
i run, i hide,i lock cockpit and yeet into something if borded ... pirating is a legit gameloop but its also legit that i dont surrender or pay pirates, i rather loose my cargo then pay 1 spacebuck, my chioce and i stand by it
I think the issue is theres alot more toxic pirates out there, than not. I would have bo problem surrending my cargo to a pirate if it means i dont have to be blown up. It would frustrate me, and might go do a few bunker runs before hauling again, but i have yet to run into a pirate crew that doesnt just immediately blow me up. Even when i have offered to surrender, i get called names before being blown up.
I would like to see the option to Rate a Pirate based on behavior. Like a 5 Star pirate is someone who is willing to accept surrender and/or help others learn.
While a 1 start ranking would be the most toxic.
I don't have a mic and I don't send chat to Visor because it takes up too much screen, so self-destruct/ramming would be my only option if pirates came in guns a-blazin'. I'd rather lose some or all of the cargo to self-destruct than let Pirates have the "fun" of getting it all. BUT, that's just my case for my crappy computer setup. I do like the way you got that first cat and got him to join. If all Piracy were like that, it might even be fun lol. Well done.
instead of taking a cut of the traders profits there should be a security rep that's tied into escort missions that a cargo hauler inputs/ spawns a mission with the destination and start point and the npc mission security rep generates the mission and the escort player accepts the mission for profit / reputation.
Trader rep should definitely be a thing! If you're know to get the stuff where it needs to go in good condition you should be paid more.
I think the logic is pretty solid, the server player count is not high enough for pirating to be a present threat, so paying escorts or scouts for every trip you make basically costs more than losing an entire haul every now and then.
So the problem with hiring scouts/fighters that I have noticed is that nobody is really willing to tag along with a c-2 for a few hours for the money cargo haulers can pay. The other problem I see is detection ranges, pirates can hold back their hauler and stalk orbital markers and ground bases because their detection ranges are way lower than say a c-2. While pinging helps in space, it’s useless on the ground because there is no way of determining whether your looking at a rock or a pirate besides from approaching. Personally I think that both CIG and us cargo haulers need to adjust, you’ve already done a great job on outlining ways to improve safety for cargo ships but I think that making every cargo more or profitable will go a long way to change the handoff of goods we currently have into enjoyable space battles for all involved. Another thing that would really help is making piracy a little more optional. Here’s my proposal, make one special cargo extremely profitable but only let people buy it a one station and sell it to another. Cargo haulers will be able to afford a large defense but pirates can more easily set up blockades and snares. It will allow cargo haulers to choose when they want to be hunted and rewarded for it and it will also ease up some pirate attacks on your average trader.
- Pirating is extremely rare, been playing for 2 years quite consistently and have only been pirated once (they failed)
- Cargo running just isn't profitable enough to invest in hiring people to escort/man turrets. If you're out of friends, you're out of luck
- As pirating becomes more prevalent, there will be few who will run cargo until CIG makes the risk worth the reward. That will be bad for cargo runners and pirates alike.
- These security forces that you speak of are non-existent in most cases. If you put out help in global chat, you're more likely to attract more wanna-be pirates.
- I'd rather blow up my cargo than have it be stolen. I'm losing my investment either way. Ship and player respawn for free. I don't negotiate with terrorists, lol
I wonder if Stanton will become more lawful when Pyro gets in. To really make a contrast between 2 systems.
19:50 “somebody get me a ground guide” is the most military thing I think I’ve heard from you
As a hauler, who's been pirated of more than 2-3mil of cargo over a span of a couple weeks, I appreciate this video. And I appreciate the humility of being shown my complacency or incompetence. Thank you for this.
Pirates are easy to avoid as a cargo hauler. I’ve had some amateurs try to take out a full C2 I was piloting solo, but escaping was easy, and then evading them to sell was easy. Firstly their presence was obvious: that I was being watched as I was filling with cargo. However the fact they expected me to just nonchalantly go upwards into orbit mean they were screwed as I boosted to max speed just a few hundred meters above the surface of the moon. By the time they could react I was heading so far away and reached QT height to a pre-planned point, that they had no chance.
Pirates tend to only show their successes, not the 100 failures. All you do to avoid QT interdiction is head to a random quantum marker for a couple of million km before then going to your own destination. I always do that with a full load of cargo: hence never get pirated.
Oh, and this game is such a non-game right now, that nobody cares or bothers to take precautions.
What pirates don't understand is that they make profit out of other people's hard work. The game loops are broken so people just choose not to take risks. If I mine and haul my own shit it can take me up to 30 hours to setup a single cargo run and you come in 5 minutes and hold me captive, congrats, my only option is to take the fun away from you. In addition pirates don't lose anything. Your risk is 15 minutes of insurance and 10K worth of gear? Laughable when your targets to make 20K need an investment of millions.
If the game had more solid economy, with fair game loops maybe pirating would have been less frowned upon. But when someone spends hours working around bugs and 30k just to be held captive by someone who just sits there and waits is infuriating
Assuming you don't run into such a nice group of pirates like Avenger 1... The pirates are going to take everything you have and kill you. Any 'negotiating' you do is wasting your time. So logically your best course of action is to self destruct/backspace or AltF4. That would be the quickest way to get back to doing business.
I think the answer is that Squadron 42 needs a New Game Plus mode where the game becaomes "open world" where you can trade, have all the AI gunners you want, and even some AI fighter escorts. GIve people the single player experiance they are looking for.
Most teaching pirate in the verse ! 🏴☠
- people play alone because multiplayer succs often becaus of desyncs, missing ingame tools
- reward is allways by concept shared in SC .. everyone earning their own reward is a concept i personaly like much more and makes a game more social (e. g. GW2)
- people distrust others they could hire because of missing player reputation mechanisms
- there are still so few pirates at the moment (many players have more experience with some kind of griefers than pirates)
- people are used to playing alone - this is process of change and takes time
i very much appreciate your videos teaching everyone playing this game with the highest grade of knowledge
Its less about traders not -being greedy (which is a broad brush)- ok, granted, a poor choice of words, let's go with 'not willing to share', but rather having escorting and support an actual thing people want to do. Who are these mythical security personnel who will defend a trader? Currently anyone who might be there for support is just as incentivised to drop the ship owner and just take the ship and cargo. Having missions that spring up to support and provide missions that offer a payout would be huge.
The rest of your topics are bang on. Head on a swivel, be aware of activities. If you know it's coming, then you can be aware of it. I am of the sort that will parlay or broker a deal because I am a reasonable person. The verse is not however full of reasonable people.
He never said that the traders were greedy. He said they were oblivious. You don’t need escorts if you just are aware of your surroundings, and just fly back to the armistice zone. You can avoid mantis snares too by just avoiding common routes between planets.
@@notcarson2227 fair, I'll edit my post. And yes, 9/10ths is just being observant. My point was that there is an opportunity to support more game loops by offering escort/ protect missions. We get these for NPCs already, so it doesn't seem to be a huge stretch to have that be for player support vs NPC. Pirates still get to pirate, traders get to trade, loot gets to maybe be plundered (or defended) and a lot more people are having a lot more fun in the process.
Really great video and awesome of you to do that for old mate and show him the ropes 👌🏻
When I got caught one time I noticed they got really close to me with their Corsair and cutty blue so I decided… SELF DESTRUCT
The real question is why did a talented and positive person known as A1 decide to do piracy then complain about people not having scouts... knowing full well that his team of top PVPs could easily counter them? Instead of taking peoples stuff - why not actually solve the problem and be a force for good?
The Stanton Justice Assembly and the Stanton Police Department will be entering into the SC community bringing about:
- A true criminal justice system including lore binding legislation and legal proceedings
- An out-of-verse criminal reputation system
- An out-of-verse warrant bounty system
- Tech to support a true policing gameloop (checkpoints, undercover investigations, 911 emergency, and more)
- A lawfull alliance community
Become the solution to the pirate problem A1. The verse has enough bad guys.
We need better COM, longer SoftDeath and EscortMissionBeacon to at least spawn npc for money if players dont want to
I don't trade or transport cargo but from what I gathered there are few things, one you said yourself the profit is around 20%. That is not that much to pay people for hours to wait and fly with you. Also people running the cargo alone usually can make back the millions lost quite quickly by few trips, so being intercepted 1 in 10 trips (or more) isn't really a big deal. Especially now when money and death don't really matter.
Not gonna lie. I would love to be the hauler for a pirate gang. Let them do all the fighting and escorting. I just provide the muscle to move the goods and get extra protection out of it.
I dont have a C2, but hiring an escort would mean near zero profits for hauling. I cant really see more than 15k profits for a run.
Its risk the route or find another game loop.
Sure the haul has a high value, but I have to buy it. So I just invest an amount I can afford to lose.
If I could make double and pay 15k to an escort, I still might go solo, as its troublesome trying to vet and schedule a good escort. The risk/reward still favors going solo and risk running.
Watching those ships jitter and glitch all over the ground, I find myself thinking of the quote "Give it to us raw and wriggling!"
Piracy is currently the most lucrative play loop. It is time CIG update the values of bounties on pirates accordingly to make it just as lucrative to be a pirate hunter.
Is it though? You also have to calculate with the hours it takes to grind to become decent at PVP eating into the pirate´s profit. You can start as a trader after learning how to land and take off doing parcel deliveries.
You’ll just get pad rammed if you’re in an armistice zone. Has happened to me three times in the past week now. Pirates have nothing to lose and everything to gain - the game loop is broken with no real recourse for people pad rammers and people who soft death protected vessels
Pad ramming is a bannable offense you know that right... so you can report that.
That's not a pirate, that's a griefer there is a difference
@@joppa560we both know they aren’t banning anyone - gotta keep the pledges incoming.
Heck Yeah Avenger, such an awesome way to handle pirating. I love this.
3 reasons:
First: The trade profit is too small to pay escorts.
Second: The risk/cost of piracy is lower than cost of escorts.
Third: Lack of pirates due to the lack of profits for them even.
The payout is currently so bad, that if piracy increases, then cargo hauling with simply stop. CIG needs to address this badly. It's been brought up and passed over many times by CIG.
At maybe 50k profit per leg for a good haul, payout to security will be what? 10k per escort. Why bother be security? Go run some missions for better profit.
Now for the pirates.. the boxes themselves are worth very little each. So spending 2 hours transferring boxes and selling that for maybe 2 million worth split between 3 or 4 people? not very lucrative for the pirate either. I would imagine pirates do it for the fun, not the profit.
The trend as I see it is that CIG is sucking out the game economy to increase the ship sales using real world currency.
Any lucrative loop gets nerfed to hell. look at salvage most recently. nerf the crap out of selling ship guns. 7500 aUEC for 1 RMC box is nice, but unless you are in a reclaimer, a dozen or two boxes is just not work the time and effort to pirate. Would you organize a group to pirate only 85k worth of booty? Mining.. quant nerfed all to hell as well. As a miner it's lucky to hit anything bigger than a 100k run. 3 or 4 runs to fill a Freelancer max. so maybe 300k per FL max? If you happen to catch one at the right time? Not exactly enticing.
I do not bother with escorts, not because I do not want to pay them but because I have been killed by someone who was supposed to be escorting me a couple of times, and because it is hard to find anyone willing to be an escort because most of the time it is boring for them. On an org mining trip with a friendly org we had 2 escorts who defended us twice that evening. I made 300k aUEC that evening as my share as the others did, myself and one other gave every bit to the escorts, but all paid them well. Unless it was a planned and well organized event with usual friendly escorts I have either been killed by someone pretending like an escort (Or who just got bored and an itchy trigger finger lol) or could find no one who wanted to be an escort for any amount of pay as they were having fun doing their own thing. So you cannot just say across the board that someone trading with no escorts is selfish or lazy and such. Most of the time it is either go alone or not at all and when I get the itchy to play (It is getting more and more difficult for me to even launch due to bugs and crashes) I am damned well going to play. I am not going to not play because I cannot find a friend to join me. Good trading to the traders, and good hunting to the hunters. Edited to add, since 3.2 I have had the afore mentioned escorts on the group mining outing, and on one group trade outing, and a couple of fake escorts who killed me, and never could get an escort besides those. I have never been accosted and killed during a single trade run by a pirate, it is ironic that while trading I have only been killed by a couple of players posing as escorts.
I am a player that would be similar to a carebear in eve, trying to mine or truck in peace, and having responses or interactions like this would be what i would be perfectly okay with as there is actual communication and not just striping of a destroyed ship.
Creating a pirate hunting game loop would probably help giving the pirates some real risk and to put them on a timer when they do their business.
The thing I notice with traders as well is a lot of them don’t have anyone to play with, my mates and I play together all the time and the only factor money plays for us is paying for our fun (blasting each other with tanks and expensive bomb shenanigans).
Anyway we pirated a guy once, ripped him out of quantum, disabled him, he was willing to talk, turns out he was new so we took him under our wing taught him game mechanics and he’s still with us today.
TL;DR: If you want to do bulk trading, you need to either be in an org or have a group of 5-6 friends you always play with. This will be even more apparent when the Hull C gets released to flyable.
No one cares!! Thia game is so broken and all pirates do Is prove that point....money doesn't mean shit
As the one who belongs to pirate fleet, I'm very appreciate to this video is promoting how piracy works. We're hunting, tackling cargos almost every days. But yes most of that time are just for searching or waiting.. or just very one-sided hunting. It's quite boring actually. I hope this promotion gives courage to the people, gives understand how it works, how to prevent or against, and which mechanics contributes here then the people are willing to take the risk, be adventurous so that this universe become more active and excite, unpredictable. sometimes we were getting super epic capitalship battles against hostile fleet to protect their cargos like Reclaimers and Hammerheads shooting each others and fighters flying through that barrage... we want to share these experiences. that's why we are going to piracy.
I think a big reason not to haul right now is simply insurance. Cargo is supposed to be insurable, Avengers points are learn how to deal with the risk....but cargo insurance would lower the risk to the pilot by allowing him reimbursement if he loses his cargo, and thus he will be more likely to surrender, it's insured...file a claim....don't die...and pirates get the loot..maybe you don't make money but atleast you can try again. Win-Win in my book.
This wouldn't work because people would likely abuse that system and make money by engaging in insurance fraud (buying cargo and then having friends "steal it" for margins).
How do we know this will happen? Because duping, salvage fraud, and mining exploits have ran rampant within the game since atleast 3.18s launch (duping even before that). Cargo insurance can't be a thing because for people not to abuse it... the loss would have to match the original cost of the cargo bought... else... scenario above would occur and people can game the system.
Each side has a risk. The pirate will only make money if they can steal it (in whichever form). The trader will only make money if they can safely sell their cargo for profit. As A1 has said many times... learn to mitigate risk as much as you can. That might mean hiring escorts and only your margins take a cut... but atleast things like this would be less likely than if you go it completely alone.
But, none of this really truly matters right now anyway. As said, we have no real consequence or progression in the game today. To what A1 said, people should set expectations and be prepared when things change in the future... because it wont be all sunshines and rainbows like it is now. Consequences are going to really hurt for those who are unprepared "consistently".
While I agree with the premise, I believe orgs should run this rather than trying to have the game an sich manage it. It's a lot harder to dupe the banker of an org several times, than a game mechanic.
As far as pirates risking anything... Remember they are the ones who initiate the encounter. So if it looks too difficult all they have to do is leave and find another target.
Exactly, so why take on a group? I have watched many pirating videos for Star Citizen and the commonality is outnumber and overpower a cargo ship, avoid the fast ones then take the ten minutes to clear your crimestat.
@@mabutoo The last part is the biggest issue I think. Once you're a pirate.... you should be a pirate. That's your reputation. You don't get to magically have your sins forgiven. It should be an EXTREMELY hard life on the edge. That's part of the "pirate life." Many times they literally "kill" people so why should a crime state be forgiven? Unless of course the game is just too wonky and bug ridden in it's current state and EVERYONE would have crime stats from random explosions. Meaning... we are not in a state where this is even a conversation to really have since the game is NOWHERE near ready for it. It's like arguing over what floor tile options should be available in your own personal hangar and apartment in game (which aren't even on the road map yet)
Hats off dude. You're an asset to the community, as a former bombers bar frequenter i'm hyped to see you making a difference in this game too.
I think another topic that can be mentioned are what the safest and most dangerous places are in Stanton, to help newcomers know where they should stay to avoid being attacked.
On my own personal experiences, I'd have to rank microTech as the safest planetary system, and Crusader as the most dangerous. In microTech I rarely ever run into other players while out and about, amd when I do it's often a friendly interation even in areas where it's entirely possible for them to just kill me. As for Crusader, I was trying to complete box missions in my inconspicuous Picses R8X around Daymar. A Gladius player spotted me and shot me down without hesitation. Twice.
One day pirates will also be able to target NPCs for loot, but that requires better ai since many pirates want the rush of a difficult while also very lucrative heist.
Well there is no way currently to mitigate pirates unless you're in an active org. I can't expect a casual player to employ someone to do scouting or provide escort the way the game currently is. CIG has to implement an easy system to employ scouts or escort with a press of a button. But you can't do that if inside the whole system there are only 100 players. There should also be a simple parley system, where pirates request 20% for imunity, you click ok = 20% of cargo is removed from your ship and placed nearby + you get immunity from all attacks in the area. As long as its based on trust, it won't work. Trusting a random player is like trusting a random combatant in Afghanistan.
Here is the real deal. Most players are playing solo because they are connected in just after work and want to play. They have no scout or escort because that requires coordination with other players. You could put a request for an escort out in chat but who wants to follow you around for the day for maybe 3 to 10K when they can just run bunkers them selves. This is the real reason.
Big Red button on the coms MFD called "distress call" needed that throws up a marker for anyone in the server that grabs that service beacon to come help is needed.
the lawful/lawless/unlawful gameplay isn't going to really work until reputation costs to all these actions start being a thing tbh
I'm really hoping that instead of simply saying "escorts" there will be an org that establishes itself as a QRF on a server, so if a distress call goes out, they switch straight to it, the same way some people do all the medical beacons.
I agree with you, but I'm not sure what you're smoking when you say that pirates are taking risks What risk pirates are taking? Everything in the game right now is slanted in their favor. All the risk is on the traders, and their reward is low, and they have far fewer tools at their disposal than pirates. Other than this, nice video, as always.
Imo, the reason I personally don't use those, Why pay for something when the chances of actually hittin pirates are so small? I've mainly been doing cargo running in 3.19 & .1 and have made just shy of 12M creds. Never once been stopped. Not saying it wont happen, and if it does multiple times I would consider changing how I play, but right now, pirates are few and far between.
I don't understand why people don't Parlay, when being asked to. It's as if they automatically assume they are going to lose all that cargo. Death certainly doesn't help with that, so if you get caught, stop, pull over and talk about it. Most certainly the Pirates are willing to negotiate a deal for you.
I would agree that when either in atmo, or facing two or more interdiction ships you need to head for armistice. But in space, and against only one interdictor you can run a fighting retreat if the other ships are not especially heavy. Boost to max speed, decouple, turn, and shoot. Running at current max speeds there is a good chance you will get an interdiction free window and be able to jump out. If not? Well then break out your multi-tools boys, it's gonna be a long one.
I think the reason people don't hire scouts is because if you don't have an active org hiring a scout via beacons is extremely unreliable. You don't know who is out there (if Anyone), or their skill level. On the flip side beacon I receive have a good chance of being a trap. Finally. Even if there is a legit person, trying to come to an agreement on the task, the pay, get in the same party chat, and not be shot at by NPC's is a process many people just don't want to deal with.
I think we need to add a SERVICE PROVIDER beacon. You list a 'base of operations' (ie a planet/legrange), a max service distance, the service provided, and your rates (with a standard rate comparison and your reputation all in a row). From there haulers can see what players are active in the area interested in scouting/escorting. They know your reputation. They know your rates, and they know your your service range all before making contact.
Even beyond combat it would be cool to know a medical ship was around hurston, ready to help for 10,000uec before I attempted a bunker mission. I think it would also be cool if pirates had an idea how many scouts for hire are in an area that might make a raid more difficult.
I honestly think if you provide this information on both ends with an easy interface, people would be more willing to use it.
People have no idea the ways we pirate them, find out what they have before they even call their ship, set up interdiction on their trade routes.. it goes deep, and secrets should be guarded.
Getting pirated by Avenger One or the likes of Greasy Kaleessi is a badge of honour.
Big respect for the end. Taking someone under your wing like that was awesome. You may have kept him in the game for the long run.
At the moment, doing pirate was not much profit. sometime need to spend over an hour to found a target and than just got 20-30k.
But that is more fun with friends/multiplay.
They made 38Mil in 5 days so....
that guy is never gonna wanna cargo trade after this. 1.4 mill out of no where. he is deff gonna assemble his won pirate squad
Easy, there is not enough money in it. Sure they can run escorts, but those escorts would need payment.. so the choices are, don't make money regularity with an escort. Or 2. Make money and maybe get pirated now and then.
That and some people just wanna run alone and not socialize.
This is why trading in smaller ships is a good middle ground, the RAFT will also have a big upper hand once loading and unloading will be modeled correctly (+armor). You'll park, stay in the ship to unload and load, then fly off in your flying tank of a cargo vessel.
Its pure fantasy to think that traders are ever going to routinely hire player escorts. If the game is built around that principle then it is doomed to fail. You absolutely need either NPC escorts and/or regions where solo traders (who will make up the overwhelming bulk of trader/hauler players) are safe from player pirates, or the solo trader has to be given a significant probability of escape. If they require people to group up to play the game they they won't retain players. Its that simple. You're approaching the game from a active PvP focused Org angle, that isn't the angle most players are going to be playing from.
That was incredibly fair for you to make that offer to the cat pilot. I've always imagined it would be possible to negotiate a deal to run cargo for a cut of profit.
Let me ask the same: How do people justify stealing things from other players? -- Because the mechanics of the game allows it. The ability to attack other players. -- But it does not make it a good thing right out of the box! While pirates can sit on their leather-seated warmed heavy fighter seats and just shoot freighters out of the box, their victims don't have out of the box mechanics for hiring security and escorted, before any piracy happens. I am sorry, but I think this is something the game should offer a little more.
Because, as a single trader, who do you want to ask? The big guilds that “offer” service to protect you, like your friendly Mafia from the neighborhood? Joining Trader-Guilds? Or choose random people that 100% not going to scam and kill you once you're on route? If you're a trader, like I sometimes do… I may give a couple of thoughts here:
a) As Avenger said: Be on guard all the time. Keep all eyes open and not leave your seat while on Quantum.
b) Have little backup plans in mind what to do when you get attacked. Going back to the planets safe zone works. What also works fine is trying to out-quantum the pirates by using the OMs.
c) Consider using smaller ships when you're alone. Big freighters feel like a turtle on its back.
d) Parley !! Just joking.. never tested.
Your audio levels are all over the place man.
One of my most enjoyable moments of SC happened when I was pirated. Way back in 3.5. I had a load of cargo. A fellow had boarded my ship without me realizing it. I just cleared the atmosphere when I hear, "Hello, Citizen." Needless to say I was startled and about pooped myself. Then I saw gunfire off the front of my ship. The fellow said, "You may have noticed the Warden off your port side that just fired a volley across your nose. We are pirating you. We want 100,000 credits or we will blow your ship." I told them that I actually was just getting started and only had a load of scrap which probably was worth about 70k total. They then proceeded to extort me for only 20k. I was so excited that I was pirated that I ran and told my wife and son. I may not have made any profit from that load, but I will always remember that as a highlight of my career playing Star Citizen.
As the gameplay dynamics currently stand, there is no "police force" aspect either, whether that be from players or from NPCs. I'm not talking about calling for help in general chat or requesting an escourt either, though those are great points as mentioned in the video! Running high value cargo is very profitable but as you guys are demonstrating... the player base simply doesn't understand the gameplay mechanics enough to help themselves. As a frequent cargo runner I actually like the pressure from pirates but I do think the current meta of piracy gameplay will be greatly muted once more systems come online. With 3.20, I hope that cargo is scaled enough that there is incentive to employ crew members and run a ship with full turrets. It would also help if we had a party system or ship system mechanic that could allow crew members to "buy in" on a portion of the cargo run to earn a higher percentage vs. being paid only a 10
You treat the game like its a job and expect other people to treat it like a job. Eve player mentality.
😂
Amazing video, wish more pirates were like this. Showing people how to be a pirate but also not an asshole. Very fun to watch this one.
It's been my experience that most pirate groups ARE like this. Mongrel Squadron, TPBL, and others.
I do my best to become friends with as many pirates as possible, that way, they tend to leave me alone. There are plenty of cargo haulers out there, they don't HAVE to pick on me.
EVERY Pirate is an Asshole because its antisocial.