For me, it seems that i will have to travel a few hours to go to a cesspool of a city in order to actually get to an Eastern Orthodox church. Seems he was honest when he said we will have to suffer for him. And this whole venerating icons, to me, it is like having a photo of your loved ones.
My only question about the comparison of icons to photos of loved ones is that, we may have photos of loved ones and enjoy them, but the photo is not necessary to loving them or respecting them or praying for them. So if someone is uncomfortable with icons or statues, I don’t really understand why it must be forced on them in order to be part of the church. Icon veneration, as I understand, is not optional as a catechumen.
@@RealRed03 the holy icons are meant to be reverenced, it would be ridiculous to want to be an orthodox Christian and not venerate and admire our brothers and sisters in Christ before us who walked in the same faith. How can you appreciate the church and want to be joined to it, while simultaneously refusing to venerate the fruits of the church. I hope this comment is understandable while I am no priest and just an ordinary layman I would still advise to speak with an orthodox priest however that method may be. For many months before ever attending an Orthodox church I was in contact with my now spiritual father via E-mail.
【O Lord Jesus Christ, set the hearts of all your priests on fire with zealous love for You, that they may ever seek Your Glory; give them strength that they may labor unceasingly in Your earthly vineyard for the glory of Your All-Honorable and Majestic name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, now and ever, and unto ages of ages. Amen】
The beginning of this video is a wake up call for me. I know Orthodoxy is true but I’m scared to tell my Protestant/dispensationalism adhering family. I am 19 years old and still live under their roof
@Aaron... What a Blessing that God drew you to His True Church at such a young age. I was raised Orthodox but did not understand the Slavonic language & left as a young adult & wandered 40 yrs. in various Protestant denominations before God Mercifully opened my eyes & drew me back. Orthodoxy is So Rich, Full, Historical & so much to learn. I am nearly 70 now ... Regrets ... so much I want to learn ... so little time left. May God Bless & Guide you in your journey. I am curious to know how you learned about Orthodoxy?? as God's truth. Praise God
@@carolflower9672My family is from Serbia, but they were Slovak Lutherans, not Orthodox Serbians. So I knew orthodoxy existed. I was always told they were just the “Muslim fundamentalists” of Christianity and that they were idolaters. Basically, a very surface level description of them. I first learned about orthodoxy through listening to the beautiful chants. One rabbit hole led to another and I saw my old dispensationalist Protestant beliefs refuted and the Orthodox understanding just “clicked.” Learning church history and about all the different heresies the church faced also helped me, and I see so many of these heresies revived in modern day Protestantism. The most important thing though is Christ. I see a true path to repentence and salvation in the Orthodox Church that just isn’t present in Protestantism. It’s not just surface level, but reaches the true depths of your soul.
Excellent points are made in this video. Pride is really at the root of sin. I personally have seen how pride really gets me into trouble. It is a constant struggle to keep right and these videos are a good aid in being better Christians.
Coming from a protestant background its common to mock venerating icons til you have it explained that youre simply honoring their memory, using them as a reference and as inspiration, and asking them to pray for you when you struggle, you do the exact same thing when you revere your preacher or ask your kother to pray for you so why would you not ask the saints or the Theotokos
Thank you Father, this answered a few questions I had. I have one more, but I don't know if I'll ever get an anwer---if we die and are in heaven, will we be aware of any loved ones we had that are in hell? Will we be aware of this in heaven?
I'd say our awareness of them would radically change. If the hereafter for those who are saved is free from lamentation we (if we stay the course and God allows) would relate to the iniquitous from a place of judgement. If we achieve the nearness with God we seek and fail to achieve time after time in this current life then we would be entirely engaged in that process of drawing ever closer. I didn't want to come across as too judgemental in my answer on first hand but yeah, just giving my opinion on the matter. Speak with a priest about this. Love your family members and friends though, pray for them as often as your heart allows while you have the chance in this life and pray for the salvation of your own soul.
My child asked a nun this very question and her answer was, "In heaven there is no pain, no sorrow or sighing, knowledge of being separated from a loved one would cause you pain so by that logic, I would say that we won't know about loved ones suffering in hell."
I'm new to orthodox christianity....I need some questions answered....can orthodox Christians pray the rosary...if the answer is yes do we pray it the same way catholics do
Yes, you can pray the Rosary as an Orthodox Christian. There are also Orthodox prayers to the Theotokos to intercede for you to her son our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
It is something that is after Rome's schism, given by an alleged vision of one of their "saints" and ever evolving. It is not part of our tradition. We have the Prayer Rule of the Theotokos however.
@@Vaelsung1We can't pray it like they do. We have to exclude the Fatima prayer, substitute in the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed in place of the Apostles Creed, and no imaginitive prayer. One should just pray the Prayer Rule of the Theotokos instead of the Rosary.
The problem is not the prayers itself, but the Latin style of imaginative prayer/meditation that we reject. Generally the orthodox try to abstain from imagining things in prayer. But saying the Hail Mary isn’t wrong to do, in fact the orthodox have a very similar prayer: “Theotokos Virgin, rejoice, Mary full of grace, the Lord is with You. Blessed are You among women, and blessed is the fruit of Your womb, for You have borne the Savior of our souls”
*Hallelujah!!!! The daily jesus devotional has been a huge part of my transformation, God is good 🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻was owning a loan of $47,000 to the bank for my son's brain surgery (David), Now I'm no longer in debt after I invested $12,000 and got my payout of m $270,500 every months,God bless Christy Fiore🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸..*
Too much to say in a UA-cam comment, google the great schism. In general, the split occurred over a trinitarian dispute about the Holy Spirit, and the role of the Pope.
There is a direct cross-reference between Lord, His Church and salvation: (Acts 2,47) "And the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved." In other verses you can find His Church being called His Bride, His Body to whom He is the Head, etc.
@@johnnyd2383 thank you brother Johnny. I am wondering though, does it actually say you cannot have a relationship with Jesus? I understand the cross references, I just don't see the specificity in them. Am I making sense?
@@andytheindividual3862 Nope. If you are looking for an excuse, you can always find it. Black on white verse I gave you is still there, no matter what you do.
Orthodoxy doesn’t cater to “biblically”. They prioritize Church tradition and fallible human councils over Scripture in several instances. Just like the apostate Catholic Church.
I believe that Orthodoxy is the only way for me, BUT, there are no Orthodox churches near me, the closest is 3-4 hours away. I don't know anyone there so I would have to stay overnight in a hotel, which is impossible for me in many ways (I have no car and no job, I am old). How can someone become Orthodox when there is no church near them? My heart is Orthodox.
Pray, ask if they do any sort of virtual liturgy , be in communication with the priest , and most importantly suck it up and make it happen once a month or so to confess and receive communion
If the words of God, not the icons or some unspiritual rites, are known and obeyed in an organization, this organization is a church, otherwise it is just a congregation where Jesus does not stay. For believers, the words of God are exactly accordant with the Holy Spirit.
Hi sorry I have a question a little unrelated, but about the Orthodox Church at large. I’m a Protestant and have always believed that any professing Christian that has a true faith in Jesus Christ the only begotten Son of God was saved because what really matters are the essential beliefs and the non essential beliefs we can differ on. But I recently spoke to someone in the Orthodox Church and they said only the Orthodox Church is the true church (in that only they have full truth) and almost no one outside of it is saved since we all have heretical beliefs. Is this the official position of the Orthodox Church?
@@kylebarkett2621 I’m no longer Orthodox so I don’t hold to these views, but according to them if you deny something as simple as icon veneration then you’re in danger of losing your soul. Read the confession of Dositheus as well. According to them we can’t even be rightly called Christians unless we are under the authority of a canonical Orthodox bishop. The exclusivity of the Orthodox Church is one of the main reasons I left. It has usurped Christ as the means for our salvation. Read the akathist to the Thetokos. It’s utter blasphemy and yet if you deny it hen you’re excommunicated from the church. Here’s just a few of the words sung to Mary: Rejoice, goodwill of God toward sinners! Rejoice, strong help for those who repent before the Lord God! **Rejoice, restoration of fallen Adam!** Rejoice, redemption of the tears of Eve! **Rejoice, Thou that dost remove the stain of sin!** **Rejoice, laver that dost wash the conscience clean!** Rejoice, Thou that didst bear the Redeemer Who freely cleanseth us of our transgressions! Rejoice, all-wonderous reconciliation of all with God! **Rejoice, bridge that dost truly lead us from death to life!** **Rejoice, Thou that savest the world from the flood of sin!** **Rejoice, heavenly ladder by which the Lord descended to us!** **Rejoice, cause of deification for all!** Rejoice, O Virgin Theotokos, full of Grace, Joy of all who sorrow!… Notice all the titles that belong to Christ that the Orthodox Church gives to His mother? So, they can commit actual idolatry and yet they claim that if we don’t then we aren’t part of Christ’s true church. It’s honestly disturbing and sad. I thank God every day that He delivered me from that sect. There are many beautiful people within its borders, but the institution is as corrupt as it comes.
I've been Orthodox for 20 years. I have never ever heard a priest say that there is no salvation outside of the Church. We are not God only God saves. What I have heard consistently is that we know that salvation exists within the Church - more directly through participation in the sacraments- but we don't know where salvation exists outside the Church, God knows the hearts of each of us and will judge accordingly. But He does desire that all of us be saved and come to the knowledge of the Truth which is Christ Himself who is the head of the Church and we are His body.
@@kylebarkett2621 I answered your follow up question but UA-cam keeps doing this weird thing where it deletes longer comments. Im not trying to rewrite the whole thing. I’m no longer Orthodox so I disagree with the idea that one needs to belong to the church in order to be saved.
I have a personal relationship with Jesus because I've yet to find a church that feels true and not theatrics. I really like orthodoxy because of talks like this, talks about why the Bible is true. Orthodox services all i find is non stop singing though and it goes over my head i guess, what's the deal with that?
Eastern Orthodox Church is led by the Holy Spirit into the correct way of worshipping God. Whenever any of our Saints heard Angels praising the Lord, they heard them doing it through singing.
I'm considering orthodox so much I feel like I get it so much. Just a few more questions and I'm still scared about the icons. Not them being there but kissing and praying to them. That's difficult for me to understand. I just don't want to be deceived and be unintentionally practicing idolatry. I am especially triggered coming out of New age and seeing and learning things. So I'm very suspect now
the icons dont represent God, you are praying to the icons since they were connected to God so deeply in life and they hear your prayers and pass it on to God as well, but theres nothing stopping you from also praying directly to the Lord
We don't pray to ink and wood, we pray to the one who is depicted, the prototype, who has the image of God within. Prayer is petition, so we petition one to pray for us to God as we pray for others and ourselves too to God. Those who are in the hereafter with God, in communion with Him, are closest to Him, especially Mother Mary. When we bow at and kiss an icon (or a person we are greeting) we venerate the image of God in that person depicted or in front of us. The Saints let the image of God show brightly by His uncreated grace.
@@10deximo41 where does praying to humans come from? How do we know "they were connected to God so deeply" ? I don't understand this at all.. I've asked priests and they give the same roundabout answer like this..
Perhaps you should think about the icons this way: you are not praying to the icons but praying through the icons; you do not venerate paint and wood, but the person depicted by the means of paint and wood.
Would you be interested in doing a video on sports and our daily competition in the work place? I feel like they are huge themes for all of us in our daily lives. I’ve been told that sport is sin before sense you are going against an opposing team and are acting selfishly.
@johnnyd2383 yeah, that's not scripture. What is so hard about pointing to a place in the bible. I do know Saul got into a lot of trouble for seeking assistance from Samuel after he had died. I do know the BIBLE says we have one mediator and that is Christ. Please provide scripture.
@@clockchaser EOC dealt with heretics like you back in 8th century and we are done with such people. Go away and come back if you decide to repent and confess original Christian faith. Dusting off sandals... Sayonara.!
@@clockchaser yeah, from what though? He went to the witch of Endor to talk to the dead, via pagan Satanic occultic practices. In Revelation, we see the Saints bringing prayers before God as incense. Prayers to the Saint are done through the power and grace of God, not satanic witch occult practices. It’s not the same thing. The canon of the Bible also isn't in scripture but you sure do enjoy using the book the Orthodox Catholic Church put together don't ya?
I've listened to a lot of people speaking about God and the Universe but no one can answer this: If GOD created us who created God? If the ANUNNAKI created us who created them? If ALIENS with big eyes 👽 created us who was the creator of them? If GOD or the ANUNNAKI created Adam and Eve who created the other people that were already here before them?
Your question might stump a young earth creationist protestant. God is eternal and uncreated. Only matter has a begining. God doesn't because he is beyond everything including matter. Since he is beyond everything, he can do anything. Even the impossible. Only matter has limits. Spiritual beings have no limits. Limitation is a material thing, not a spiritual thing. God had no begining. He is constant and endless like the endless nothing. Something can't come from nothing like Atheists think. Matter has a begining and an end, spiritual things have no end. So whatever caused the big bang cannot just always have existed. Because ALL matter has a begining and an end
You missed point as to why it was forbidden in the OT. With Lord's incarnation and establishing of the New Covenant, Him being Himself icon of the invisible God (Col 1,15)... etc... (three dots)
It is not fair to insist that the Orthodox venerate icons, when you know very well that what they venerate are the depicted person and not the paper or wood of the icon. No matter how many times an Orthodox repeats this, there will always be a Protestant who will pretend he doesn't understand and ask the same question as you are doing now.
In the Holy Bible there are many references to materials, such as clothes or even objects of Saints, which are imbued with Divine Grace and work miracles. Why Protestants do not accept these Bible passages?
Jesus thinks only those obeying His words are the members of His church, and that is why in Revelation the church, ie His bride, is only one, not as many as the churches on earth.
I don't understand the whole idea for icons. It seems like you're breaking the 2nd commandment. Didn't Aaron make an Icon for the Israelites when Moses was on the mount for 40 days and he was rebuked for it for idol worship. You can say that was idol worship but it seems like a blurred line between icons and idols. I don't mean any disrespect, I just hope someone can explain a little more about orthodoxy
Note one thing - all churches who have Apostolic origins use icons... only Protestants who do NOT have Apostolic origins are Iconoclastic heretics, including Muslims who also do not have Apostolic origins and Jews alike. Think about it.
Yo matt!! I know this is super late but i firstly would recommend emailing a priest around your area, I know that it has roots in Christology and the incarnation. Interestingly Orthodox do not allow icons of the Father, I am just an inquirer though I know almost nothing, but I really would recommend emailing someone educated!!
I’m Muslim. Regarding the fate of non believers, we say almost the exact same thing. Judgement lies with God alone and all will be judged. If someone knowingly rejects the truth, they will be judged accordingly. If someone unknowingly rejects the truth, they will be judged accordingly and God is the best of judgers. This to me is practical. The Protestant belief that all are saved by belief alone is clearly not sufficient to guide people from sin. That’s way pre marital sex is a given in the West. That’s why alcoholism and gambling are rampant. The human lust for sin requires a stick, in addition to the carrot. I’m a believing Sunni Muslim. But if I was ever anything else, it would be Orthodox. Everything else is watered down. Sing some songs on Sunday, then continue on doing whatever your souls desires because we are already saved and there are no consequences of our actions.
@@johnnyd2383 well some of them but not all. We do rituals in church but i just dont sence any presence of God in them. I could do rituals in OO church or RC church or in any religion and it would be the same. I can pray the prayers we have prayer books but i dont sence closeness to God. We do not do any evangelism even that there are millions of people still not christians in asia and africa. Coptic christians suffer a lot for thier faith and they are much more spiritual and religious people than us EO people. Chinese protestant underground christians suffer a lot for the Christ and they do not fear to do evangelism and missionary work even the fact that many of them are spendimg decades in prisons and are severely persecuted and even killed for that. What do we EO christians do? We go to church bit do we have any impact in the world? We just talk about history and theology while millions of people are dying in empty fall religions.
No one is saved by the church authority, but the blood of Jesus Christ. It is so simple. If you believe in Jesus Christ, you are saved. Nothing needed to be added to it. His grace is sufficient.!
In theory you are correct, but in practice we need all the help we can get, because we are weak in our faith. Those who say they are full of faith are lying to themselves, while the few who do have it, won't say it because they have humility and don't consider themselves worthy.
@@fockewulf190d9 Every mention of faith in the New Testament could rightly be interpreted “faith OF Jesus” rather than “faith IN Jesus”. Given most of the context for these passages it makes sense to translate it that way. Faith itself is a gift from God that we can not earn or work up in ourselves. We are transformed by the faith of Christ, not necessarily faith in Him. We don’t need a church to get us to that point. Either Jesus was successful in His work on the cross and redeeming the world or He wasn’t. We take it for granted that no one had the choice to be affected by the work of Adam, and yet when it comes to Christ, the New Adam, we assume that He can’t affect us apart from our “consent”. As if Christ is incapable of affecting all mankind but Adam was totally capable of it. I suggest you simply recognize the awesome power that God incarnate exercised in His life, death and resurrection. A church will not save you. Christ already did that 2,000 years ago. You can either accept it or deny, but His work was still effective regardless.
Deut 4:15 says; "take careful heed to yourselves, for you saw no form when the LORD spoke to you at Horeb out of the midst of the fire, lest you act corruptly and make for yourselves a carved image in the form of any figure; the likeness of male or female... Exodus 20:4 also forbids the making of idols (icons) Was my Bible tampered with, or was yours?
The father has no form or image other than Christ, which is a direct icon of the Father. Icon ≠ idol, the temple was full of icons, you can reference the dura Europa synagogue or Solomon’s temple with the cherubim and the ark.
@@triggered8556 Now we have people who claim Jesus was black,or HE was white, brown,Asian, etc etc. Maybe that is why God wants to be worshipped in spirit and in truth.
I have questions about why you can't leave the church and still be with Jesus or God personally. Isnt Jesus supposed to be the temple. isn't the body of the church the people that have faith him.
The believers who are in the systems of Christianity, still need read more and more the words of Jesus to avoid making mistakes like saying: only those in the systems can be saved. This saying is completely wrong: according to the Bible, only those carrying the seal of the Holy Spirit and subjecting to the Holy Spirit will not be condemned and so be saved.
Former catholic, now returned to Christianity. I love a lot of these Orthadox viewpoints but I fundamentally disagree with the idea that if you leave the church you are not a Christian or not saved. To be a Christian all that is required is seeking Christ, following christs teachings, and spreading the word. This idea you MUST be a member of a church is misguided. What if you were lost in the desert or crashed into a deserted island. Are you not saved simply because you couldn’t show up to a building. Smh. This is wrong. Seek him. Follow him. Spread the gospel. That is the baseline of what is required
(Acts 2,47) "And the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved." This verse cross-references Church and salvation. Besides, do you know anybody outside of the Noah's ark that was saved.?
How do you know what the baseline requirements are, by what standard are those your baseline requirements? The bible does not point those out as baseline requirements, so how do you?
It's ironic how he says having a relationship with Christ outside of the church leads to prife yet through that whole breakdown he gave he was saying "if you're not in the original club, you don't really know Jesus nor can you."
Exactly. You are in delusions about Christianity and have no true experience of the Lord who promised to be with His Church, His Bride that He formed 2000 years ago... he is coming to pickup His Bride and He is not a polygamist.
It was in vain that he said about Hitler, he did not repent and was not saved 100% because he committed two suicides at the same time: poison in the mouth and a bullet in the temple, and as you know, suicides do not enter the Kingdom of Heaven.
So, if one is a Christian and in a time of weakness that person commits suicide then you are no longer saved, forgiven, or inherit eternal life? That goes against John 10:28.
@@rns7426 Yes, because suicide is a mortal sin, in which it is a betrayal of the Lord God Himself, who gave man this priceless gift of life and for which it will no longer be possible to ask for forgiveness in this world and in the next world. God loved and protected Hitler, even though he was a tyrant. But Hitler himself, by his free human sinful will, decided to commit suicide, like Judas Iscariot. There is even a church tradition that when Judas Iscariot was hanging on a tree, God bent the branch on which Judas was hanging so that he could repent and not die and go to eternal hell, but Judas, by his human will, specifically tucked his legs under himself, and died and went to eternal hell, and something similar could have happened to Hitler: God gave he had a chance to live, but he rejected God's salvation and committed suicide. But God, out of His love, gave man free will and respects human will, but if a person made a choice that could destroy his immortal soul, then God with love and humility wants to help this person, but the person himself does not want and rejects this help from God. Thus, this does not contradict the Gospel of John. 10:28
@@rns7426 if a person commits suicide how can they repent for that? That person can’t have an orthodox funeral, have the prayers said for them or be buried in blessed ground.
@@michellethrockmorton7233 so if a person dies with an sin they didn’t get to confess then they are confined to hell? What happened to “as far as the east is from the west”? That is how much the Lord can forgive you. So my question is, is salvation only for that minute? After you repent and are forgiven and walk off and sin then get hit by a car and die you aren’t forgiven, you aren’t a Christian, you have no grace or salvation? And by the way the criminal on the cross didn’t have an orthodox funeral either, or a baptism, definitely wasn’t buried in blessed ground and certainly wasn’t labeled a Christian. Even so, our savior said that day he would be in paradise with Him.
With real respect, I think Gavin Ortlund has made two lengthy videos that really undermine icon veneration as the Seventh Ecumenical Council prescribed.
And a number of Orthodox apologists have responded to his videos which were quite complete in their refutation. Dr. Ortlund frankly is not authoritative and in this venue and he's likely to be frustrated by the fact that frankly, we don't particularly care about his private opinion.
@@johnnyd2383 hi friend; I think Ortlund works to show the iconophile or iconodule tendency is not early or apostolic. I don’t say this to offend you or anyone, but because his evidence is very strong.
@@alexschexnayder8624 I don’t know his frustrations. But may I ask which Orthodox refutations you found most compelling? I know he went into lengthy detail showing the Ante Nicene Fathers support his position in their context. Edit: may I also ask why you say he’s not authoritative?
@@tjkhan4541 the simple fact that anyone wrote against the practice means that the practice was present and wide spread enough that some felt the need to say something. Likewise Dr. Ortlund is operating on protestant assumptions about what he's reading rather than looking into the context. Also he expressed interest in speaking to Orientals because he thought they don't have icons when in fact many of them do, and they don't have a council about it because it was never an issue for them which reflects his ignorance about how Orthodox understand what Dogma is. He's just a doctorate in theology. I'm sorry I know protestants, having been one myself a few years ago, see that as something noteworthy but frankly Orthodox don't concern themselves merely with scholarly theologians. Rather our greatest Theologians are those who have entered into deep prayer, and sometimes they have an education like St. John Chrysostom or the Cappadocian Fathers. There's also the case of the Dura Europos Synagogue and Baptistery, both of which are covered in Icons and while they may have been abandoned around the 3rd century, there's evidence that these building stood and were in use much longer than that.
It is sad. I believe that this gentleman is someone who loves God. But if you really love God and if you really love Christ, why would you do the bidding of men, who have no authority whatsoever. God alone has authority and his word is clear that you should not make yourself a graven image of anything on earth or in heaven. While the of veneration of saints, of dead people is somehow meant to differ from worship and prayer of god, the practical application is the same. If I can have direct relationship with God through prayer, why would I need to pray or ask saints to go to god on my behalf. These saints have no power to save, no power to grant your prayers. Only God has the power to save you, your prayers shall only be for God alone. Everything else is idolatry and an affront to God. I pray that you stop revering dead people and start revering the one and only God to whom all Glory and praise be from eternity to eternity.
Luke painted the first “icon” for Mary. Did Mary venerate that? Sir, these are idols, such as those that Rachel stole from her father. We do not know what Jesus looks like, so to have images of a false Christ is idolatry and should be ceased immediately. I urged you to pray for clarity
So, I was saved by Faith in Jesus Christ 7 years ago, regenerated by the Spirit, sanctified by the Spirit through His word, and now attend a Baptist Church and this man is saying that I don't have a relationship with Jesus because I'm not a member of his church? Please, show me where it says in the Bible that I must be member of the Orthodox Church in order to be in fellowship with God?
There's only one Church; one Faith, one baptism, one Lord and God of all. There are not many churches of contradicting beliefs and many ideas of baptism (or not), and ideas of the Lord and God of all. There's just one Faith, one baptism, one Lord and God of all which Protestantism in reality does not truly teach. The relationship with God isn't like human relationships, and of only mental agreement and reading a tome with some prayer (which is petition, not worship). It's more than that. Deeper. Through the opened eye of the heart we connect with God through the prayer of the heart, Holy Mysteries that infuse us with His uncreated grace starting in baptism in the one Church, being filled and sealed with the Holy Spirit too then, praying always either of the prayers of the Church or if our own and asking petition in the communion of the saints, going to Divine Services in actual worship of God instead of mere veneration which isn't worship. Partaking of Christ in His Body and Blood, which if we don't, we have no life in us. None of that is found in the Baptist subsect of Protestantism, or Protestantism at all except maybe some in Lutheranism and Anglicanism but it still isn't the fullness of the Faith of Christ. Please learn more and come home to the Church that has been here 2,000 years worshiping and serving Christ the way He set for us. May God bless you. ☦
@@LadyMaria Thanks for your concern, and I would join the Orthodox Church if it was the truth, but if I joined I would have to ignore large portions of the Bible, and my God given conscience won't let me do that.
@@333Paradigm333 You would have to ignore your personal interpretations, not the Holy Scriptures. It isn't your conscience but an unwillingness to go farther.
@@LadyMaria The Holy Spirit dwells in me through my faith in Jesus Christ, and the scriptures were inspired by the Spirit. That is what the Bible clearly states in black & white, no need for your church to interpret for me. You can have your religion, that is your choice, but it is not scriptural in many of it's practices. I wish you all the best
@@333Paradigm333 One day, God willing, you will find the Truth; you were directed here to an Orthodox channel and that is of God to bring you to His Body where He is Head; please humble yourself and see what you are missing and how you can have a deep relationship with God. You say "religion" as a pejorative but know nothing about our Faith, which has survived persecution and martyrdom for 2,000 years, beyond some at a glance judgments. I don't blame you for that, it is what people do when they encounter something new to them. How can you judge when you do not know? You cannot. Interpretating Holy Scripture as Protestants do has led to countless contradicting factions and divisions, heresies, even blasphemies, so that is not of the Holy Spirit but of man alone. If interpretation was black and white all Protestants would be exactly the same in beliefs, but they are not so it is more nuanced than that, especially using a translation (the Church does not use translations for interpretation except for the OT, the Septuagint which is the oldest surviving copy of the OT; nothing is lost in translation unlike with English translations which butch3r the Greek). So, these things that aren't "Scriptural" you say are indeed your opinion. Pride was the beginning of Protestantism whether it be Papal, English, or Western Protestantism. And that is why the three sects are flailing. God bless. Look into Holy Orthodoxy before being adamant that you're right. I shall take my leave now.
That man is an idol worshiper. He wants you to worship in his church. It is the message of Christ delivered through the beast of Jesus that is the path. I have my own enlightenment and relationship with Christ on this path. Christ lives through true believers; not, through idolatry and ritual.
Lord's Bride, Eastern Orthodox Church was created 2000 years ago. If you are follower of an unhappy, constipated, drunken German monk, your man made ideology is what is ruling your thought. All are called to repent and join historical Lord's Church - EOC.
Wow. Are you kidding me? You guys prioritize physical membership in a physical church over a personal relationship with Christ? I’m done with Orthodoxy. Goodbye! And you guys need to do some serious thinking about your theology.
_"You guys prioritize physical membership in a physical church over a personal relationship with Christ?"_ Why? _"And you guys need to do some serious thinking about your theology."_ Let's hear yours .....
I'm sorry you sound like the pharices, Jesus is the church not a building God wants your heart not sacraments Jesus died for our sins and that's final all the saints and angels bow to Jesus too we don't need another sinner saying we are sinners we have all fallen short of the Glory of God and your best deeds are filthy rags to the Lord
This is idolatry! 1st and 2nd commandments being violated here. God shares His glory with no one. Orthodoxy is not Biblical and is definitely not the early church.
With he Lord's incarnation, everything changed as all commandments were issued by Him and also fulfilled by Him. "He is the image (icon) of the invisible God" (Col 1,15) and hence our liberty to paint icons. Iconoclastic heresy was dealt with in the 8th-9th century and one of the issued anathemas is: "Anathema to those who apply the words of Holy Scripture which were spoken against idols, to the venerable images." Enjoy.
Concerning icons, and everything material, please do not let satan confuse you. Listen to Jesus. Listen to Him! Jesus did not speak of icons, He did not paint icons, He did not ask to be depicted in icons, for what's worth icons were not even a thing in judaism. So please, see what Jesus has to say about all this. Venerate Jesus, not material idols. Venerate that which was, is, and will always be, God.
Jesus is literally said to be the icon of the Father in Scripture. Icons are inherently tied to our view of the nature of Christ. If you understand Orthodox Christology, you understand how venerating icons is actually honoring Christ Himself. Also icons were certainly in Judaism, look at the Dura-Europos synagogue archeological site.
@@fahn777 distractions from what truly matters; Jesus Himself. Christology is a man made construct. Venerating manmade material objects is a distraction. Repent. Venerate Jesus in your heart, in your soul, and through your actions. Venerate wood and you are under satan's influence.
@@christoskelaiditis653so was God wrong when He told the Hebrews to bow to the Ark or the brazen serpent? All I can honestly say is visit an Orthodox Church, attend the service, and ask the priest questions at coffee hour after service. I was an Evangelical for over 15 years. I learned more about Christianity in 2 months of Orthodoxy than all my previous years, and I am now 34. It is something that is to be experienced, I don't know how else to explain it. There is a grace and reverence for God in the Orthodox Church I've not seen anywhere else. The Orthodox Church compiled the books of the Bible, why not trust God can use it for other things?
@@fahn777Not to mention the detailed instructions from God to Moses for Icons of the Cherubim to be embroidered by the Levites in the Tapestries surrounding the Holy of Holies and Cherubim statues over the Mercy Seat in the Tabernacle and later the Temple toward which all Jews would bow and pray. To this day Orthodox Jews reverence and kiss the Scrolls of the Torah when they are taken out to be read in the synagogue, the tassels on their prayer shawls and the Mezuzah containing verses of Scripture on the doorposts of their homes as a sign of reverence for God and the holy objects related to the worship of God, and these practices are based in the Torah. It is very easy to see the continuity between ancient Jewish religious practices and Icons and the early Church veneration of Icons when we become aware of these things.
Thanks for the lesson. I am going to start praying for my priest.
Thanks!
Thank you! God bless you
I am putting Father Seraphim Holland on my prayer list!! May God bless him and grant him many years!!
The ending of this one was powerful, Glory to God and let’s all pray for our Priest! ☦️
Yes, We must pray for our Priests ... they do have a huge burden
For me, it seems that i will have to travel a few hours to go to a cesspool of a city in order to actually get to an Eastern Orthodox church.
Seems he was honest when he said we will have to suffer for him.
And this whole venerating icons, to me, it is like having a photo of your loved ones.
you are right about icons
having a photo? how many?and different ones for every location
My only question about the comparison of icons to photos of loved ones is that, we may have photos of loved ones and enjoy them, but the photo is not necessary to loving them or respecting them or praying for them. So if someone is uncomfortable with icons or statues, I don’t really understand why it must be forced on them in order to be part of the church. Icon veneration, as I understand, is not optional as a catechumen.
@@RealRed03 You should ask your priest
@@RealRed03 the holy icons are meant to be reverenced, it would be ridiculous to want to be an orthodox Christian and not venerate and admire our brothers and sisters in Christ before us who walked in the same faith. How can you appreciate the church and want to be joined to it, while simultaneously refusing to venerate the fruits of the church. I hope this comment is understandable while I am no priest and just an ordinary layman I would still advise to speak with an orthodox priest however that method may be. For many months before ever attending an Orthodox church I was in contact with my now spiritual father via E-mail.
【O Lord Jesus Christ, set the hearts of all your priests on fire with zealous love for You, that they may ever seek Your Glory; give them strength that they may labor unceasingly in Your earthly vineyard for the glory of Your All-Honorable and Majestic name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, now and ever, and unto ages of ages. Amen】
Beautiful prayer. Is this from the Anthologian? Lord have mercy on us
Amen
The beginning of this video is a wake up call for me. I know Orthodoxy is true but I’m scared to tell my Protestant/dispensationalism adhering family. I am 19 years old and still live under their roof
Exactly the same for me, I think I might just tell them once I'm baptized in The Orthodox Church.
That's really tough. My parents are both non-denominational. Ill pray for you! God bless!
@Aaron... What a Blessing that God drew you to His True Church at such a young age. I was raised Orthodox but did not understand the Slavonic language & left as a young adult & wandered 40 yrs. in various Protestant denominations before God Mercifully opened my eyes & drew me back. Orthodoxy is So Rich, Full, Historical & so much to learn. I am nearly 70 now ... Regrets ... so much I want to learn ... so little time left. May God Bless & Guide you in your journey. I am curious to know how you learned about Orthodoxy?? as God's truth. Praise God
@@Julio1283. You are Blessed ... see my comments to Aaron above.
@@carolflower9672My family is from Serbia, but they were Slovak Lutherans, not Orthodox Serbians. So I knew orthodoxy existed. I was always told they were just the “Muslim fundamentalists” of Christianity and that they were idolaters. Basically, a very surface level description of them.
I first learned about orthodoxy through listening to the beautiful chants. One rabbit hole led to another and I saw my old dispensationalist Protestant beliefs refuted and the Orthodox understanding just “clicked.” Learning church history and about all the different heresies the church faced also helped me, and I see so many of these heresies revived in modern day Protestantism.
The most important thing though is Christ. I see a true path to repentence and salvation in the Orthodox Church that just isn’t present in Protestantism. It’s not just surface level, but reaches the true depths of your soul.
Спасибо Отец!
Thank you Ft. for sharing the wisdom and knowledge
Господи Помилуй, Кристос Воскрес
Father over the target with this one. Commenters getting big mad.
Lord Jesus Christ have mercy on me a sinner
God bless orthodoxy ❤
Excellent points are made in this video. Pride is really at the root of sin. I personally have seen how pride really gets me into trouble. It is a constant struggle to keep right and these videos are a good aid in being better Christians.
Thank u Father all the Spiritual lessons u gave us, GOD Bless 🇪🇹🇺🇸🙏🏿.
I've been carrying an icon of St. Michael in my pocket everywhere with me. This was a wake up call for me. Thank you Father
Excellent information ... Thank you @RootsofOrthodoxy
Coming from a protestant background its common to mock venerating icons til you have it explained that youre simply honoring their memory, using them as a reference and as inspiration, and asking them to pray for you when you struggle, you do the exact same thing when you revere your preacher or ask your kother to pray for you so why would you not ask the saints or the Theotokos
“Only God knows the state of the soul” I love that ❤️
They don't like to hear it Father🙏
Such a great video. So informative
Can you put an icon on a keychain, since it is a common object? :o I bought that keychain at Ostrog Orthodox Monastery
Thank you Father, this answered a few questions I had. I have one more, but I don't know if I'll ever get an anwer---if we die and are in heaven, will we be aware of any loved ones we had that are in hell? Will we be aware of this in heaven?
I'd say our awareness of them would radically change. If the hereafter for those who are saved is free from lamentation we (if we stay the course and God allows) would relate to the iniquitous from a place of judgement. If we achieve the nearness with God we seek and fail to achieve time after time in this current life then we would be entirely engaged in that process of drawing ever closer. I didn't want to come across as too judgemental in my answer on first hand but yeah, just giving my opinion on the matter.
Speak with a priest about this. Love your family members and friends though, pray for them as often as your heart allows while you have the chance in this life and pray for the salvation of your own soul.
Great question to be fair.
@@NeoNoir_94Read the account of St. Silouan the Athonite’s conversation with the old hermit about the atheist in hell.
My child asked a nun this very question and her answer was, "In heaven there is no pain, no sorrow or sighing, knowledge of being separated from a loved one would cause you pain so by that logic, I would say that we won't know about loved ones suffering in hell."
I'm new to orthodox christianity....I need some questions answered....can orthodox Christians pray the rosary...if the answer is yes do we pray it the same way catholics do
Yes, you can pray the Rosary as an Orthodox Christian. There are also Orthodox prayers to the Theotokos to intercede for you to her son our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Prayer rope is our tool used in prayers. Rosary is not our practice.
It is something that is after Rome's schism, given by an alleged vision of one of their "saints" and ever evolving. It is not part of our tradition. We have the Prayer Rule of the Theotokos however.
@@Vaelsung1We can't pray it like they do. We have to exclude the Fatima prayer, substitute in the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed in place of the Apostles Creed, and no imaginitive prayer. One should just pray the Prayer Rule of the Theotokos instead of the Rosary.
The problem is not the prayers itself, but the Latin style of imaginative prayer/meditation that we reject. Generally the orthodox try to abstain from imagining things in prayer. But saying the Hail Mary isn’t wrong to do, in fact the orthodox have a very similar prayer:
“Theotokos Virgin, rejoice, Mary full of grace, the Lord is with You. Blessed are You among women, and blessed is the fruit of Your womb, for You have borne the Savior of our souls”
What about the Mary of the desert that had a personal relationship with Christ and was full of the Holy Spirit.
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Thanks to my co-worker (Carson ) who suggested Ms Christy Fiore
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Can I also do it??? My life is facing lots of challenges lately
What is the difference between regular Catholicism and Orthodoxy?
Too much to say in a UA-cam comment, google the great schism. In general, the split occurred over a trinitarian dispute about the Holy Spirit, and the role of the Pope.
One changed, the other didn’t. Look objectively and you’ll know which is which.
Full video?
How is it biblically that we can't have a relationship with Christ without being apart of a church?
There is a direct cross-reference between Lord, His Church and salvation: (Acts 2,47) "And the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved." In other verses you can find His Church being called His Bride, His Body to whom He is the Head, etc.
The Lord does call you to be apart of the body through the scripture. Christian’s are called to be in community.
@@johnnyd2383 thank you brother Johnny. I am wondering though, does it actually say you cannot have a relationship with Jesus? I understand the cross references, I just don't see the specificity in them. Am I making sense?
@@andytheindividual3862 Nope. If you are looking for an excuse, you can always find it. Black on white verse I gave you is still there, no matter what you do.
Orthodoxy doesn’t cater to “biblically”. They prioritize Church tradition and fallible human councils over Scripture in several instances. Just like the apostate Catholic Church.
I believe that Orthodoxy is the only way for me, BUT, there are no Orthodox churches near me, the closest is 3-4 hours away. I don't know anyone there so I would have to stay overnight in a hotel, which is impossible for me in many ways (I have no car and no job, I am old). How can someone become Orthodox when there is no church near them? My heart is Orthodox.
Pray. Practice as well as you can and God will open an opportunity for you.
Pray, ask if they do any sort of virtual liturgy , be in communication with the priest , and most importantly suck it up and make it happen once a month or so to confess and receive communion
If the words of God, not the icons or some unspiritual rites, are known and obeyed in an organization, this organization is a church, otherwise it is just a congregation where Jesus does not stay. For believers, the words of God are exactly accordant with the Holy Spirit.
Hi sorry I have a question a little unrelated, but about the Orthodox Church at large. I’m a Protestant and have always believed that any professing Christian that has a true faith in Jesus Christ the only begotten Son of God was saved because what really matters are the essential beliefs and the non essential beliefs we can differ on. But I recently spoke to someone in the Orthodox Church and they said only the Orthodox Church is the true church (in that only they have full truth) and almost no one outside of it is saved since we all have heretical beliefs. Is this the official position of the Orthodox Church?
Yes, that’s the official position.
@@IAMFISH92 so what exactly do I believe that disqualifies me from receiving Gods grace through salvation? Please be specific
@@kylebarkett2621 I’m no longer Orthodox so I don’t hold to these views, but according to them if you deny something as simple as icon veneration then you’re in danger of losing your soul. Read the confession of Dositheus as well. According to them we can’t even be rightly called Christians unless we are under the authority of a canonical Orthodox bishop. The exclusivity of the Orthodox Church is one of the main reasons I left. It has usurped Christ as the means for our salvation. Read the akathist to the Thetokos. It’s utter blasphemy and yet if you deny it hen you’re excommunicated from the church. Here’s just a few of the words sung to Mary: Rejoice, goodwill of God toward sinners!
Rejoice, strong help for those who repent before the Lord God!
**Rejoice, restoration of fallen Adam!**
Rejoice, redemption of the tears of Eve!
**Rejoice, Thou that dost remove the stain of sin!**
**Rejoice, laver that dost wash the conscience clean!**
Rejoice, Thou that didst bear the Redeemer Who freely cleanseth us of our transgressions!
Rejoice, all-wonderous reconciliation of all with God!
**Rejoice, bridge that dost truly lead us from death to life!**
**Rejoice, Thou that savest the world from the flood of sin!**
**Rejoice, heavenly ladder by which the Lord descended to us!**
**Rejoice, cause of deification for all!**
Rejoice, O Virgin Theotokos, full of Grace, Joy of all who sorrow!…
Notice all the titles that belong to Christ that the Orthodox Church gives to His mother? So, they can commit actual idolatry and yet they claim that if we don’t then we aren’t part of Christ’s true church. It’s honestly disturbing and sad. I thank God every day that He delivered me from that sect. There are many beautiful people within its borders, but the institution is as corrupt as it comes.
I've been Orthodox for 20 years. I have never ever heard a priest say that there is no salvation outside of the Church. We are not God only God saves. What I have heard consistently is that we know that salvation exists within the Church - more directly through participation in the sacraments- but we don't know where salvation exists outside the Church, God knows the hearts of each of us and will judge accordingly. But He does desire that all of us be saved and come to the knowledge of the Truth which is Christ Himself who is the head of the Church and we are His body.
@@kylebarkett2621 I answered your follow up question but UA-cam keeps doing this weird thing where it deletes longer comments. Im not trying to rewrite the whole thing. I’m no longer Orthodox so I disagree with the idea that one needs to belong to the church in order to be saved.
I have a personal relationship with Jesus because I've yet to find a church that feels true and not theatrics. I really like orthodoxy because of talks like this, talks about why the Bible is true. Orthodox services all i find is non stop singing though and it goes over my head i guess, what's the deal with that?
Eastern Orthodox Church is led by the Holy Spirit into the correct way of worshipping God. Whenever any of our Saints heard Angels praising the Lord, they heard them doing it through singing.
I'm considering orthodox so much I feel like I get it so much. Just a few more questions and I'm still scared about the icons. Not them being there but kissing and praying to them. That's difficult for me to understand. I just don't want to be deceived and be unintentionally practicing idolatry. I am especially triggered coming out of New age and seeing and learning things. So I'm very suspect now
the icons dont represent God, you are praying to the icons since they were connected to God so deeply in life and they hear your prayers and pass it on to God as well, but theres nothing stopping you from also praying directly to the Lord
We don't pray to ink and wood, we pray to the one who is depicted, the prototype, who has the image of God within.
Prayer is petition, so we petition one to pray for us to God as we pray for others and ourselves too to God.
Those who are in the hereafter with God, in communion with Him, are closest to Him, especially Mother Mary.
When we bow at and kiss an icon (or a person we are greeting) we venerate the image of God in that person depicted or in front of us. The Saints let the image of God show brightly by His uncreated grace.
@@10deximo41 where does praying to humans come from? How do we know "they were connected to God so deeply" ?
I don't understand this at all.. I've asked priests and they give the same roundabout answer like this..
@@Yo-0o0o0o0oYou need to read the lives of the saints.
Perhaps you should think about the icons this way: you are not praying to the icons but praying through the icons; you do not venerate paint and wood, but the person depicted by the means of paint and wood.
Would you be interested in doing a video on sports and our daily competition in the work place? I feel like they are huge themes for all of us in our daily lives. I’ve been told that sport is sin before sense you are going against an opposing team and are acting selfishly.
I honestly don't understand venerating idols/ saints. Where is the scriptual backing for such practices?
Seventh Ecumenical Council (787 AD), Extracts from the Acts., Session I.
- Anathema to those who call the sacred images idols.
@johnnyd2383 yeah, that's not scripture. What is so hard about pointing to a place in the bible. I do know Saul got into a lot of trouble for seeking assistance from Samuel after he had died. I do know the BIBLE says we have one mediator and that is Christ. Please provide scripture.
@@clockchaser EOC dealt with heretics like you back in 8th century and we are done with such people. Go away and come back if you decide to repent and confess original Christian faith. Dusting off sandals... Sayonara.!
@@clockchaser yeah, from what though? He went to the witch of Endor to talk to the dead, via pagan Satanic occultic practices.
In Revelation, we see the Saints bringing prayers before God as incense. Prayers to the Saint are done through the power and grace of God, not satanic witch occult practices. It’s not the same thing.
The canon of the Bible also isn't in scripture but you sure do enjoy using the book the Orthodox Catholic Church put together don't ya?
@@clockchaserFollowing….I would like to read Biblical references as well to understand better.
Believers should be first an ambassador of Jesus, then of a lover, not an ambassador of the other believer even if he maybe a leader of a church.
I've listened to a lot of people speaking about God and the Universe but no one can answer this:
If GOD created us who created God?
If the ANUNNAKI created us who created them?
If ALIENS with big eyes 👽 created us who was the creator of them?
If GOD or the ANUNNAKI created Adam and Eve who created the other people that were already here before them?
God by definition is uncreated, so it’s a nonsense question to begin with.
Your question might stump a young earth creationist protestant. God is eternal and uncreated. Only matter has a begining. God doesn't because he is beyond everything including matter. Since he is beyond everything, he can do anything. Even the impossible. Only matter has limits. Spiritual beings have no limits. Limitation is a material thing, not a spiritual thing. God had no begining. He is constant and endless like the endless nothing. Something can't come from nothing like Atheists think. Matter has a begining and an end, spiritual things have no end. So whatever caused the big bang cannot just always have existed. Because ALL matter has a begining and an end
Why do you venerate Icons and how is that not idolatry which God explicitly forbids?
You missed point as to why it was forbidden in the OT. With Lord's incarnation and establishing of the New Covenant, Him being Himself icon of the invisible God (Col 1,15)... etc... (three dots)
It is not fair to insist that the Orthodox venerate icons, when you know very well that what they venerate are the depicted person and not the paper or wood of the icon.
No matter how many times an Orthodox repeats this, there will always be a Protestant who will pretend he doesn't understand and ask the same question as you are doing now.
In the Holy Bible there are many references to materials, such as clothes or even objects of Saints, which are imbued with Divine Grace and work miracles. Why Protestants do not accept these Bible passages?
@@kostaskostopoulos2913You did misrepresent what I said. Either way we are only supposed to venerate/worship God.
@@kostaskostopoulos2913 Only God works miracles, the way he choses to do may vary but it is still the Holy Spirit doing it.
Jesus thinks only those obeying His words are the members of His church, and that is why in Revelation the church, ie His bride, is only one, not as many as the churches on earth.
I don't understand the whole idea for icons. It seems like you're breaking the 2nd commandment. Didn't Aaron make an Icon for the Israelites when Moses was on the mount for 40 days and he was rebuked for it for idol worship. You can say that was idol worship but it seems like a blurred line between icons and idols. I don't mean any disrespect, I just hope someone can explain a little more about orthodoxy
Note one thing - all churches who have Apostolic origins use icons... only Protestants who do NOT have Apostolic origins are Iconoclastic heretics, including Muslims who also do not have Apostolic origins and Jews alike. Think about it.
Yo matt!! I know this is super late but i firstly would recommend emailing a priest around your area, I know that it has roots in Christology and the incarnation. Interestingly Orthodox do not allow icons of the Father, I am just an inquirer though I know almost nothing, but I really would recommend emailing someone educated!!
I’m Muslim. Regarding the fate of non believers, we say almost the exact same thing. Judgement lies with God alone and all will be judged. If someone knowingly rejects the truth, they will be judged accordingly. If someone unknowingly rejects the truth, they will be judged accordingly and God is the best of judgers.
This to me is practical. The Protestant belief that all are saved by belief alone is clearly not sufficient to guide people from sin. That’s way pre marital sex is a given in the West. That’s why alcoholism and gambling are rampant. The human lust for sin requires a stick, in addition to the carrot.
I’m a believing Sunni Muslim. But if I was ever anything else, it would be Orthodox. Everything else is watered down. Sing some songs on Sunday, then continue on doing whatever your souls desires because we are already saved and there are no consequences of our actions.
I am EO but even I dont know if EO church has the full truth. Actually i dont think so.
If that is the case, you are hardly EO. Have you spoke to your parish priest about your doubts.?
@@johnnyd2383 well some of them but not all. We do rituals in church but i just dont sence any presence of God in them. I could do rituals in OO church or RC church or in any religion and it would be the same. I can pray the prayers we have prayer books but i dont sence closeness to God. We do not do any evangelism even that there are millions of people still not christians in asia and africa. Coptic christians suffer a lot for thier faith and they are much more spiritual and religious people than us EO people. Chinese protestant underground christians suffer a lot for the Christ and they do not fear to do evangelism and missionary work even the fact that many of them are spendimg decades in prisons and are severely persecuted and even killed for that.
What do we EO christians do? We go to church bit do we have any impact in the world? We just talk about history and theology while millions of people are dying in empty fall religions.
I, like the Apostles of Jesus, could never wear the means of his death.
No one is saved by the church authority, but the blood of Jesus Christ. It is so simple. If you believe in Jesus Christ, you are saved. Nothing needed to be added to it. His grace is sufficient.!
Lol no
Amen.
@@robenger64Yes.
In theory you are correct, but in practice we need all the help we can get, because we are weak in our faith.
Those who say they are full of faith are lying to themselves, while the few who do have it, won't say it because they have humility and don't consider themselves worthy.
@@fockewulf190d9 Every mention of faith in the New Testament could rightly be interpreted “faith OF Jesus” rather than “faith IN Jesus”. Given most of the context for these passages it makes sense to translate it that way. Faith itself is a gift from God that we can not earn or work up in ourselves. We are transformed by the faith of Christ, not necessarily faith in Him. We don’t need a church to get us to that point. Either Jesus was successful in His work on the cross and redeeming the world or He wasn’t. We take it for granted that no one had the choice to be affected by the work of Adam, and yet when it comes to Christ, the New Adam, we assume that He can’t affect us apart from our “consent”. As if Christ is incapable of affecting all mankind but Adam was totally capable of it. I suggest you simply recognize the awesome power that God incarnate exercised in His life, death and resurrection. A church will not save you. Christ already did that 2,000 years ago. You can either accept it or deny, but His work was still effective regardless.
Deut 4:15 says; "take careful heed to yourselves, for you saw no form when the LORD spoke to you at Horeb out of the midst of the fire, lest you act corruptly and make for yourselves a carved image in the form of any figure; the likeness of male or female...
Exodus 20:4 also forbids the making of idols (icons)
Was my Bible tampered with, or was yours?
The father has no form or image other than Christ, which is a direct icon of the Father. Icon ≠ idol, the temple was full of icons, you can reference the dura Europa synagogue or Solomon’s temple with the cherubim and the ark.
@@triggered8556 Now we have people who claim Jesus was black,or HE was white, brown,Asian, etc etc. Maybe that is why God wants to be worshipped in spirit and in truth.
@@petegallegos827 Jesus is the icon of the Father, Jesus looks like the Orthodox icons of Him.
@@triggered8556 I can't argue with you. I wasn't there. Were you?
@@petegallegos827 So you take the position that you can’t argue for anything that you haven’t empirically observed?
I have questions about why you can't leave the church and still be with Jesus or God personally. Isnt Jesus supposed to be the temple. isn't the body of the church the people that have faith him.
Nope. Such concept was invented back in 16th century by an unhappy, drunken, constipated German monk. You are follower of the man made fallacy.
The believers who are in the systems of Christianity, still need read more and more the words of Jesus to avoid making mistakes like saying: only those in the systems can be saved. This saying is completely wrong: according to the Bible, only those carrying the seal of the Holy Spirit and subjecting to the Holy Spirit will not be condemned and so be saved.
Do you know anybody outside of the Noah's ark that was saved.?
so don't watch liturgy while you do you stuff in the bathroom
First!
The first shall be last.
Former catholic, now returned to Christianity. I love a lot of these Orthadox viewpoints but I fundamentally disagree with the idea that if you leave the church you are not a Christian or not saved. To be a Christian all that is required is seeking Christ, following christs teachings, and spreading the word. This idea you MUST be a member of a church is misguided.
What if you were lost in the desert or crashed into a deserted island. Are you not saved simply because you couldn’t show up to a building. Smh. This is wrong.
Seek him. Follow him. Spread the gospel. That is the baseline of what is required
(Acts 2,47) "And the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved." This verse cross-references Church and salvation. Besides, do you know anybody outside of the Noah's ark that was saved.?
How do you know what the baseline requirements are, by what standard are those your baseline requirements?
The bible does not point those out as baseline requirements, so how do you?
Second
The most simplest orthodoxy of the new covenant is Jesus died for you once and you believe in him that’s all. nothing should be edit.
Mormons believe that, are they saved?
It's ironic how he says having a relationship with Christ outside of the church leads to prife yet through that whole breakdown he gave he was saying "if you're not in the original club, you don't really know Jesus nor can you."
Exactly. You are in delusions about Christianity and have no true experience of the Lord who promised to be with His Church, His Bride that He formed 2000 years ago... he is coming to pickup His Bride and He is not a polygamist.
@@johnnyd2383 Luke 9:49-50
@@Helden_Daddy If the followers of the unhappy, constipated, drunken German monk are on our, Orthodox side, why are they calling us names.?
@@johnnyd2383So gross. Thank God people like you are largely just an internet phenomenon.
It was in vain that he said about Hitler, he did not repent and was not saved 100% because he committed two suicides at the same time: poison in the mouth and a bullet in the temple, and as you know, suicides do not enter the Kingdom of Heaven.
So, if one is a Christian and in a time of weakness that person commits suicide then you are no longer saved, forgiven, or inherit eternal life?
That goes against John 10:28.
@@rns7426 Yes, because suicide is a mortal sin, in which it is a betrayal of the Lord God Himself, who gave man this priceless gift of life and for which it will no longer be possible to ask for forgiveness in this world and in the next world.
God loved and protected Hitler, even though he was a tyrant. But Hitler himself, by his free human sinful will, decided to commit suicide, like Judas Iscariot. There is even a church tradition that when Judas Iscariot was hanging on a tree,
God bent the branch on which Judas was hanging so that he could repent and not die and go to eternal hell, but Judas, by his human will, specifically tucked his legs under himself, and died and went to eternal hell, and something similar could have happened to Hitler: God gave he had a chance to live, but he rejected God's salvation and committed suicide.
But God, out of His love, gave man free will and respects human will, but if a person made a choice that could destroy his immortal soul, then God with love and humility wants to help this person, but the person himself does not want and rejects this help from God.
Thus, this does not contradict the Gospel of John. 10:28
@@rns7426 if a person commits suicide how can they repent for that? That person can’t have an orthodox funeral, have the prayers said for them or be buried in blessed ground.
@@michellethrockmorton7233 so if a person dies with an sin they didn’t get to confess then they are confined to hell?
What happened to “as far as the east is from the west”? That is how much the Lord can forgive you.
So my question is, is salvation only for that minute? After you repent and are forgiven and walk off and sin then get hit by a car and die you aren’t forgiven, you aren’t a Christian, you have no grace or salvation?
And by the way the criminal on the cross didn’t have an orthodox funeral either, or a baptism, definitely wasn’t buried in blessed ground and certainly wasn’t labeled a Christian. Even so, our savior said that day he would be in paradise with Him.
@@rns7426 you are getting many things mixed up, ask a orthodox priest these questions….
With real respect, I think Gavin Ortlund has made two lengthy videos that really undermine icon veneration as the Seventh Ecumenical Council prescribed.
There were many iconoclastic tendencies in the past 2000 years. Mentioned individual is just one drop in the vast see of Heterodoxy.
And a number of Orthodox apologists have responded to his videos which were quite complete in their refutation. Dr. Ortlund frankly is not authoritative and in this venue and he's likely to be frustrated by the fact that frankly, we don't particularly care about his private opinion.
@@johnnyd2383 hi friend; I think Ortlund works to show the iconophile or iconodule tendency is not early or apostolic. I don’t say this to offend you or anyone, but because his evidence is very strong.
@@alexschexnayder8624 I don’t know his frustrations. But may I ask which Orthodox refutations you found most compelling? I know he went into lengthy detail showing the Ante Nicene Fathers support his position in their context.
Edit: may I also ask why you say he’s not authoritative?
@@tjkhan4541 the simple fact that anyone wrote against the practice means that the practice was present and wide spread enough that some felt the need to say something.
Likewise Dr. Ortlund is operating on protestant assumptions about what he's reading rather than looking into the context. Also he expressed interest in speaking to Orientals because he thought they don't have icons when in fact many of them do, and they don't have a council about it because it was never an issue for them which reflects his ignorance about how Orthodox understand what Dogma is.
He's just a doctorate in theology. I'm sorry I know protestants, having been one myself a few years ago, see that as something noteworthy but frankly Orthodox don't concern themselves merely with scholarly theologians. Rather our greatest Theologians are those who have entered into deep prayer, and sometimes they have an education like St. John Chrysostom or the Cappadocian Fathers.
There's also the case of the Dura Europos Synagogue and Baptistery, both of which are covered in Icons and while they may have been abandoned around the 3rd century, there's evidence that these building stood and were in use much longer than that.
4th
Not sure I like this priest, he’s very flipped with his answers.
Not sure I understand what you're trying to say, do you mean he was very flippant with his answers?
@@BrainySteez , yes that is what I mean.
@@michellethrockmorton7233 Gotcha
hm, it seems to me like be pretty clear cut and very serious. so, the opposite of flippant.
It is sad. I believe that this gentleman is someone who loves God. But if you really love God and if you really love Christ, why would you do the bidding of men, who have no authority whatsoever. God alone has authority and his word is clear that you should not make yourself a graven image of anything on earth or in heaven.
While the of veneration of saints, of dead people is somehow meant to differ from worship and prayer of god, the practical application is the same. If I can have direct relationship with God through prayer, why would I need to pray or ask saints to go to god on my behalf. These saints have no power to save, no power to grant your prayers. Only God has the power to save you, your prayers shall only be for God alone. Everything else is idolatry and an affront to God. I pray that you stop revering dead people and start revering the one and only God to whom all Glory and praise be from eternity to eternity.
Luke painted the first “icon” for Mary. Did Mary venerate that? Sir, these are idols, such as those that Rachel stole from her father. We do not know what Jesus looks like, so to have images of a false Christ is idolatry and should be ceased immediately. I urged you to pray for clarity
Christ looks like the icons of Him
So, I was saved by Faith in Jesus Christ 7 years ago, regenerated by the Spirit, sanctified by the Spirit through His word, and now attend a Baptist Church and this man is saying that I don't have a relationship with Jesus because I'm not a member of his church? Please, show me where it says in the Bible that I must be member of the Orthodox Church in order to be in fellowship with God?
There's only one Church; one Faith, one baptism, one Lord and God of all.
There are not many churches of contradicting beliefs and many ideas of baptism (or not), and ideas of the Lord and God of all. There's just one Faith, one baptism, one Lord and God of all which Protestantism in reality does not truly teach.
The relationship with God isn't like human relationships, and of only mental agreement and reading a tome with some prayer (which is petition, not worship). It's more than that. Deeper. Through the opened eye of the heart we connect with God through the prayer of the heart, Holy Mysteries that infuse us with His uncreated grace starting in baptism in the one Church, being filled and sealed with the Holy Spirit too then, praying always either of the prayers of the Church or if our own and asking petition in the communion of the saints, going to Divine Services in actual worship of God instead of mere veneration which isn't worship. Partaking of Christ in His Body and Blood, which if we don't, we have no life in us. None of that is found in the Baptist subsect of Protestantism, or Protestantism at all except maybe some in Lutheranism and Anglicanism but it still isn't the fullness of the Faith of Christ.
Please learn more and come home to the Church that has been here 2,000 years worshiping and serving Christ the way He set for us. May God bless you. ☦
@@LadyMaria Thanks for your concern, and I would join the Orthodox Church if it was the truth, but if I joined I would have to ignore large portions of the Bible, and my God given conscience won't let me do that.
@@333Paradigm333 You would have to ignore your personal interpretations, not the Holy Scriptures. It isn't your conscience but an unwillingness to go farther.
@@LadyMaria The Holy Spirit dwells in me through my faith in Jesus Christ, and the scriptures were inspired by the Spirit. That is what the Bible clearly states in black & white, no need for your church to interpret for me. You can have your religion, that is your choice, but it is not scriptural in many of it's practices. I wish you all the best
@@333Paradigm333 One day, God willing, you will find the Truth; you were directed here to an Orthodox channel and that is of God to bring you to His Body where He is Head; please humble yourself and see what you are missing and how you can have a deep relationship with God. You say "religion" as a pejorative but know nothing about our Faith, which has survived persecution and martyrdom for 2,000 years, beyond some at a glance judgments. I don't blame you for that, it is what people do when they encounter something new to them. How can you judge when you do not know? You cannot.
Interpretating Holy Scripture as Protestants do has led to countless contradicting factions and divisions, heresies, even blasphemies, so that is not of the Holy Spirit but of man alone. If interpretation was black and white all Protestants would be exactly the same in beliefs, but they are not so it is more nuanced than that, especially using a translation (the Church does not use translations for interpretation except for the OT, the Septuagint which is the oldest surviving copy of the OT; nothing is lost in translation unlike with English translations which butch3r the Greek). So, these things that aren't "Scriptural" you say are indeed your opinion.
Pride was the beginning of Protestantism whether it be Papal, English, or Western Protestantism. And that is why the three sects are flailing.
God bless. Look into Holy Orthodoxy before being adamant that you're right. I shall take my leave now.
Icons? Better say idols
Seventh Ecumenical Council (787 AD), Extracts from the Acts., Session I.
- Anathema to those who call the sacred images idols.
That man is an idol worshiper. He wants you to worship in his church. It is the message of Christ delivered through the beast of Jesus that is the path. I have my own enlightenment and relationship with Christ on this path. Christ lives through true believers; not, through idolatry and ritual.
Lord's Bride, Eastern Orthodox Church was created 2000 years ago. If you are follower of an unhappy, constipated, drunken German monk, your man made ideology is what is ruling your thought. All are called to repent and join historical Lord's Church - EOC.
Wow. Are you kidding me? You guys prioritize physical membership in a physical church over a personal relationship with Christ? I’m done with Orthodoxy. Goodbye! And you guys need to do some serious thinking about your theology.
_"You guys prioritize physical membership in a physical church over a personal relationship with Christ?"_
Why?
_"And you guys need to do some serious thinking about your theology."_
Let's hear yours .....
@@kostaskostopoulos2913He, like most, is a professional "assertionist".
You never even began with Orthodoxy, so how could you be done with it? Weird sophist
I'm sorry you sound like the pharices, Jesus is the church not a building God wants your heart not sacraments Jesus died for our sins and that's final all the saints and angels bow to Jesus too we don't need another sinner saying we are sinners we have all fallen short of the Glory of God and your best deeds are filthy rags to the Lord
Mark 16, 16 calls for what Sacrament as a prerequisite for salvation.?
This is idolatry! 1st and 2nd commandments being violated here. God shares His glory with no one. Orthodoxy is not Biblical and is definitely not the early church.
With he Lord's incarnation, everything changed as all commandments were issued by Him and also fulfilled by Him. "He is the image (icon) of the invisible God" (Col 1,15) and hence our liberty to paint icons. Iconoclastic heresy was dealt with in the 8th-9th century and one of the issued anathemas is: "Anathema to those who apply the words of Holy Scripture which were spoken against idols, to the venerable images." Enjoy.
Oh my God I'm so glad I left this cult listening to this gave me PTSD
Did you leave Orthodoxy and go to another church or leave the faith all together?
Sorry you had a bad experience. If I may ask, what exactly was it about Orthodoxy that made your experience negative? If you don't mind sharing
Don't feed the troll@@BrainySteez
God will be ready for you whenever you want to return.
so what is the alternative? the world slanders Christ then offers in place of Him death and evil.
Concerning icons, and everything material, please do not let satan confuse you. Listen to Jesus. Listen to Him! Jesus did not speak of icons, He did not paint icons, He did not ask to be depicted in icons, for what's worth icons were not even a thing in judaism. So please, see what Jesus has to say about all this. Venerate Jesus, not material idols. Venerate that which was, is, and will always be, God.
Jesus is literally said to be the icon of the Father in Scripture.
Icons are inherently tied to our view of the nature of Christ. If you understand Orthodox Christology, you understand how venerating icons is actually honoring Christ Himself.
Also icons were certainly in Judaism, look at the Dura-Europos synagogue archeological site.
@@fahn777 distractions from what truly matters; Jesus Himself. Christology is a man made construct. Venerating manmade material objects is a distraction. Repent. Venerate Jesus in your heart, in your soul, and through your actions. Venerate wood and you are under satan's influence.
Jesus didn't tell you to read the Bible
@@christoskelaiditis653so was God wrong when He told the Hebrews to bow to the Ark or the brazen serpent?
All I can honestly say is visit an Orthodox Church, attend the service, and ask the priest questions at coffee hour after service. I was an Evangelical for over 15 years. I learned more about Christianity in 2 months of Orthodoxy than all my previous years, and I am now 34.
It is something that is to be experienced, I don't know how else to explain it. There is a grace and reverence for God in the Orthodox Church I've not seen anywhere else.
The Orthodox Church compiled the books of the Bible, why not trust God can use it for other things?
@@fahn777Not to mention the detailed instructions from God to Moses for Icons of the Cherubim to be embroidered by the Levites in the Tapestries surrounding the Holy of Holies and Cherubim statues over the Mercy Seat in the Tabernacle and later the Temple toward which all Jews would bow and pray. To this day Orthodox Jews reverence and kiss the Scrolls of the Torah when they are taken out to be read in the synagogue, the tassels on their prayer shawls and the Mezuzah containing verses of Scripture on the doorposts of their homes as a sign of reverence for God and the holy objects related to the worship of God, and these practices are based in the Torah. It is very easy to see the continuity between ancient Jewish religious practices and Icons and the early Church veneration of Icons when we become aware of these things.