My friend has been doing some testing on his own using a darker roast and has noticed he's getting more bitterness / over extraction using one of these tumblers and shaking. Just a reminder this may be beneficial for some more dense harder extracting LIGHT roasts, and NOT beneficial for darker roasts. One solution does not fit all!
@@Hillbillyspreeyeah compensating for the changes it makes could work. I thought for pour over it did the same thing with a lighter roast. But for espresso it generally gives smoother results hadn't noticed over extraction but did notice less acidity.
Update I think it should work well for medium or medium-dark roasts too, the more developed and more traditional coffees, it tends to smooth out the flavours and tone down acidity, like HillBilly mentioned, sometimes when you change one variable you need to account for that and make other changes to compensate. One example : I was doing pourovers with 205F brew temperature, and it was turning out nice. I changed to a higher mineral content / different brew water and suddenly it was bitter and over extracting! Once I adjusted down to 195f or 198f with that water it was nice again!
The particle distribution test Lance Hedrick did was fairly decent science. The compiled results showed that the blind shakers performed much better any other method of puck prep. A few things that could help, and I missed whether you did or not, but RDT can really help take out the static, and if you see James Hoffman's recent video on the additional effects of the addition of water to grinding, it ehnances extraction further than was previously known to science. Humidity in your house, while an asinine point, could help too, if your house is a bit staticy in general due to colder temperatures and lower humidity.
Yeah, I know... I just never liked the idea of RDT. Adding moisture to your grinder. Another extra accessory and step, and mainly because it makes the beans themselves stick to everything before grinding and if not done consistently it does affect shot timing too. I did a brief test with just a few shots RDT vs no RDT and preferred the no RDT shot, but I should try again more extensively.
No, the compiled results did not show that. They showed higher EY which doesn't automatically mean the extraction is more even. And especially with less unique burrs (e.g. DF64 instead of EG-1) those higher EY shots had increased flow (at the same grind size). Grind coarser on a WDT shot and depending on where you sit on the extraction volcano, you might match the blind shaker EY, but at a coarser grind size (usually better particle distribution). Lance did nothing wrong but people just don't understand the findings and spread misinformation.
The two pieces are actually speaking against each other. The one Hoffmann first recites tells that the RDT of a certain volume will prevent the formation of aggregate caused by static charge. But the point of the shaker is actually to create aggregate and/or densification. So the two theories don’t really go all that well hand in hand.
@@mikni4069 hmm yes good point. Do we want our finer particles to stick to the larger particles or not. But also with the shaking densification thing it's a theory but I don't think we know that's exactly what's happening.
I just got this same tumbler yesterday. I thought this would simplify my workflow, but I am finding it retains grounds like crazy and is overall making my espresso workflow harder. Maybe it's just this brand/model? I do RDT to remove static, using a Sette 270. Also finding that the stem from the middle piece sometimes gets stuck in the hole in the lid. I rubbed some wax paper on both surfaces and that helped in a big way.
Yeah I noticed that too. Gotta keep the grounds from getting on the top part otherwise it causes friction and it gets stuck. I think shaking side to side vigorously might achieve similar results vs up and down as well but will leave less retention ontop. May be worth experimenting with that too. I have the 3bomber brand ones coming soon hopefully which may be nicer / smoother finished internally. But either way I don't think workflow is as nice as direct to portafilter.
@@BensCoffeeRants I used to grind into the crappy plastic Sette dosing cup with 0 retention so it's hard to beat that! I saw another video on the 3bomber shaker and unfortunately it gets grounds stuck as well. I replied to another comment below with theink. I also saw a Reddit post where the Weber shaker also had crazy retention.
I messed up. I bought the tumbler and not the shaker. I wonder if I should cancel my order? Like how am I supposed to shake the grinds if the tumbler doesn’t come with a lid? Whoops.
lol Yeah, see if they'll change your order for you but it's likely sold out. I think I remember the Weber one popped out of the top a little so you can't just use anything as a lid with it either. (I'm not 100% sure though).
@@docforven lol holy shit I actually didn’t even think about that. Do you think the results would be the same with that method? Seems like a dumb question but I don’t know if the top of the shaker makes a difference or not.
@@sdcisaac I’m not sure we truly understand why Lance got those results. It could be related to the material the cup is made from but I doubt it. I got similar results dosing into the portafilter with a funnel, and shaking my portafilter/funnel with my palm over the funnel opening.
@@sdcisaac it's not the most elegant solution lol you'll have grounds stuck to your hand and risk loosing some coffee. But shaking side to side may be enough. I'm thinking after the hype dies down everyone will go back to WDT needle tools because they prefer the workflow lol
I am not having these troubles with my application. I am doing minor RDT with a high end hand grinder. The biggest thing for me is weekly wiping fown of the hand grinder, catch cup, tamper, and shaker insides with rubbing alcohol. It takes me 5 minutes, but keeps the espresso dust from accumulating and getting distributed everywhere. The oil accumulation from the coffee grounds magnifies the grinds retention to all surfaces, from inside the grinder to the shaker cup. I'm getting a different extraction from every coffee I try with 5 good shakes, and I've noticed 10/10 consistency in the cleanest puck knockouts I've ever seen. There's something to a good shake.
Interesting. Someone was saying I should add some cooking oil to the inside part of the tumbler but I don't think that woild help lol it's also the opposite of what you're saying! So you did find there is less clinging of coffee after a thorough cleaning? Also curious if you've tried just Side to side shakes or does it need to go up/down as well?
Yeah, smoother internal surfaces? I had a Weber one and it was cleaner, but still had some retention which was a little annoying, but the smoother surface made cleaning it off nicer / easier. Which would you recommend the Craig Lyn one or the Option-O? I think option-o one would work with the DF64/83 and other grinders with portafilter forks potentially as well?
Same, it's messy, there's a lot of coffee retention inside the shaker. My espresso skills are not on a level yet that this work flow is gonna make much of a difference anyway.
That’s not the Weber brand one (which is now sold out). That has an anti static coating to reduce that build. Not sure what brand that is but it doesn’t look like it works very well.
Airflow brand which I think may also be the same as the Ikape one. I don't think Weber has an anti static coating just a smoother anodizied aluminum. This one has some rougher areas. I'm getting the 3bomber brand one to try as well supposedly that one is smooth internally.
It’s static you need to deal with your static issues this is in particular high if you have a dry inner climate, you can reduce static caused by grinding coffee by RDT a few sprays as it rises the humidity within the grinding chamber. It’s not a miracle cure, but dos reduce it. Also washing them with mild detergent and rinse and dry well can in some cases reduce the issue.
Yeah I never liked doing RDT. Maybe I'll try it and washing the thing. I have some 3bomber or whatever brand ones coming that hopefully have a smoother interior surface and work better. But I don't think theyll sit nicely on the portafilter arms like this one does.
Washed it and used it again today a few times, it's better than it was here in the video, but still retains some coffee, I predict it will go back to looking like this after a few more uses. I never remember to try doing RDT.
It's fine but I think I prefer the 3bomber one which is also not perfect. It's probably fine to figure out if you like or hate the workflow and how shaking changes your coffee. The craig lyn shaker is probably the best.
@@BensCoffeeRants 3bomber was actually 30% less than the Airflow! I thought the later was bigger and looked higher quality. I guess I made the wrong choice 😔. Weber/Lyn is just too expensive for just a shaker. May I suggest to you to add Airflow to the subject of this vid or a hashtag to help others find your vid and help them make the right choice?
@@NANA-gy7yx sure good idea. Maybe you'll have a better experience let me know how yours is. I don't do RDT so some stickage may be from static but on this one My interior surface isn't completely smooth and that's likely causing more friction and stickage.
Hi! I'm looking to buy this exact shaker. Any news? Were you able to adapt or do you still find it bad? I noticed you prefer to add a funnel between your pf and it. Do you still feel you need it? Thanks!
For benefitting from the shaking distribution according to Lance's testing methodology anyway he dropped it from an greater height. I've been getting pretty good results but shots have not looked great I'm getting worse channeling using this than with WDT I think. And its messier. I think WDT is still needed the question is does it undo whatever shaking has done. My friend is also experimenting with that so we'll probably know shortly. I'm probably going to sell this one I have a few of the 3homber ones coming so I'll see if I like those better.
@@rafaelrocha8046 Yeah sure, or ill just let you know how it is, once I get it and use it a bit! But I think workflow will always be worse using a dosing cup than grinding direct to portafilter (it's yet another accessory, taking up space, retaining coffee, needing to be cleaned etc). If you have a weber grinder where the tumbler is built in then it works better, or maybe it just seems like it because your kinda forced to use it :D
My friend got the smaller / multipurpose sized Craig Lyn one and it's very nice. Seems to have less retention, only tested it briefly at his place but I think it's nicer (for a lot more $$). I did notice a change in espresso with the shaking (not sure if tumbler is necessary but shaking might be effective, you could do it in a dosing cup etc so that should be easy for people to experiment with themselves). But I'm not sure I like the shaken / tumbler results, it smooths espresso shots out more and reduces acidity and I think may lower flavour clarity as well, so it's smooth and easy drinking but I find it more boring (maybe due to lower acidity).
@@sf2189 Really, not liking the Craig Lyn one either? Send it to me! :D If it's a few fine crumbs it's probably best to just ignore it. It's not going to affect your next coffee in tiny amounts, but I know, I sometimes obsess over stuff like that wanting it perfectly clean between shots.
I will say it retains less than the one in your video but not convinced the extra step makes a huge difference. I have the BH WDT tool and that does a great job breaking everything up.
@@sf2189 I got one too! Did yours have the same issue with it not rotating as freely as it should? I had to wait for them to ship a new ball bearing and basically completely disassemble the thing and ended up stripping a screw in the process (soft cheap screw, not a good fitting tool provided!) So not too happy with them.
I wouldn't recommend making your hand grinding workflow even more complicated :D I remember the 1zpresso k plus actually came with a blind shaker attachment but I probably just used it once!
@@RegrinderAlert Yeah shaking and light wdt should be ok or tap and settle, people did stockfleth method (smoothing with their finger from multiple directions) for many years! Not the most hygienic way if you're making coffee for others though!
Yeah definitely easier if the cup fits your grinders portafilter holder but transfering the coffee into the portafilter can leave the distribution less than optimal. I think you can still fix it with WDT though and perhaps shaking it in the cup (earlier) provides benefit still. I'll have to do some testing.
Static may be partly to blame, but also the rougher surface if you don't have a nice (usually expensive) anodized aluminum coating, the shape of it is also a factor, I think the design of this one could be better in that regard as well.
My friend has been doing some testing on his own using a darker roast and has noticed he's getting more bitterness / over extraction using one of these tumblers and shaking. Just a reminder this may be beneficial for some more dense harder extracting LIGHT roasts, and NOT beneficial for darker roasts. One solution does not fit all!
You can adjust your grind size and reduce extraction time to not over extract dark roast. 🤷
@@Hillbillyspreeyeah compensating for the changes it makes could work. I thought for pour over it did the same thing with a lighter roast. But for espresso it generally gives smoother results hadn't noticed over extraction but did notice less acidity.
Update I think it should work well for medium or medium-dark roasts too, the more developed and more traditional coffees, it tends to smooth out the flavours and tone down acidity, like HillBilly mentioned, sometimes when you change one variable you need to account for that and make other changes to compensate.
One example : I was doing pourovers with 205F brew temperature, and it was turning out nice. I changed to a higher mineral content / different brew water and suddenly it was bitter and over extracting! Once I adjusted down to 195f or 198f with that water it was nice again!
The particle distribution test Lance Hedrick did was fairly decent science. The compiled results showed that the blind shakers performed much better any other method of puck prep.
A few things that could help, and I missed whether you did or not, but RDT can really help take out the static, and if you see James Hoffman's recent video on the additional effects of the addition of water to grinding, it ehnances extraction further than was previously known to science.
Humidity in your house, while an asinine point, could help too, if your house is a bit staticy in general due to colder temperatures and lower humidity.
Yeah, I know... I just never liked the idea of RDT. Adding moisture to your grinder. Another extra accessory and step, and mainly because it makes the beans themselves stick to everything before grinding and if not done consistently it does affect shot timing too.
I did a brief test with just a few shots RDT vs no RDT and preferred the no RDT shot, but I should try again more extensively.
No, the compiled results did not show that. They showed higher EY which doesn't automatically mean the extraction is more even.
And especially with less unique burrs (e.g. DF64 instead of EG-1) those higher EY shots had increased flow (at the same grind size).
Grind coarser on a WDT shot and depending on where you sit on the extraction volcano, you might match the blind shaker EY, but at a coarser grind size (usually better particle distribution).
Lance did nothing wrong but people just don't understand the findings and spread misinformation.
The two pieces are actually speaking against each other. The one Hoffmann first recites tells that the RDT of a certain volume will prevent the formation of aggregate caused by static charge. But the point of the shaker is actually to create aggregate and/or densification. So the two theories don’t really go all that well hand in hand.
@@mikni4069 hmm yes good point. Do we want our finer particles to stick to the larger particles or not. But also with the shaking densification thing it's a theory but I don't think we know that's exactly what's happening.
I agree. I have the same experience with the Weber blind shaker. I prefer to grind to dosing cup, transfer to pf and wdt.
I just got this same tumbler yesterday. I thought this would simplify my workflow, but I am finding it retains grounds like crazy and is overall making my espresso workflow harder. Maybe it's just this brand/model? I do RDT to remove static, using a Sette 270.
Also finding that the stem from the middle piece sometimes gets stuck in the hole in the lid. I rubbed some wax paper on both surfaces and that helped in a big way.
Yeah I noticed that too. Gotta keep the grounds from getting on the top part otherwise it causes friction and it gets stuck. I think shaking side to side vigorously might achieve similar results vs up and down as well but will leave less retention ontop. May be worth experimenting with that too. I have the 3bomber brand ones coming soon hopefully which may be nicer / smoother finished internally. But either way I don't think workflow is as nice as direct to portafilter.
@@BensCoffeeRants I used to grind into the crappy plastic Sette dosing cup with 0 retention so it's hard to beat that!
I saw another video on the 3bomber shaker and unfortunately it gets grounds stuck as well. I replied to another comment below with theink.
I also saw a Reddit post where the Weber shaker also had crazy retention.
I messed up. I bought the tumbler and not the shaker. I wonder if I should cancel my order? Like how am I supposed to shake the grinds if the tumbler doesn’t come with a lid? Whoops.
lol Yeah, see if they'll change your order for you but it's likely sold out. I think I remember the Weber one popped out of the top a little so you can't just use anything as a lid with it either. (I'm not 100% sure though).
cover it with the palm of your hand
@@docforven lol holy shit I actually didn’t even think about that. Do you think the results would be the same with that method? Seems like a dumb question but I don’t know if the top of the shaker makes a difference or not.
@@sdcisaac I’m not sure we truly understand why Lance got those results. It could be related to the material the cup is made from but I doubt it. I got similar results dosing into the portafilter with a funnel, and shaking my portafilter/funnel with my palm over the funnel opening.
@@sdcisaac it's not the most elegant solution lol you'll have grounds stuck to your hand and risk loosing some coffee. But shaking side to side may be enough. I'm thinking after the hype dies down everyone will go back to WDT needle tools because they prefer the workflow lol
I am not having these troubles with my application. I am doing minor RDT with a high end hand grinder.
The biggest thing for me is weekly wiping fown of the hand grinder, catch cup, tamper, and shaker insides with rubbing alcohol. It takes me 5 minutes, but keeps the espresso dust from accumulating and getting distributed everywhere.
The oil accumulation from the coffee grounds magnifies the grinds retention to all surfaces, from inside the grinder to the shaker cup.
I'm getting a different extraction from every coffee I try with 5 good shakes, and I've noticed 10/10 consistency in the cleanest puck knockouts I've ever seen. There's something to a good shake.
Interesting. Someone was saying I should add some cooking oil to the inside part of the tumbler but I don't think that woild help lol it's also the opposite of what you're saying! So you did find there is less clinging of coffee after a thorough cleaning?
Also curious if you've tried just Side to side shakes or does it need to go up/down as well?
I don't have that issue with the option-o one and the one by craig lyn. I still prefer a regular catch cup or grinding into a portafilter.
Yeah, smoother internal surfaces? I had a Weber one and it was cleaner, but still had some retention which was a little annoying, but the smoother surface made cleaning it off nicer / easier. Which would you recommend the Craig Lyn one or the Option-O?
I think option-o one would work with the DF64/83 and other grinders with portafilter forks potentially as well?
Same, it's messy, there's a lot of coffee retention inside the shaker. My espresso skills are not on a level yet that this work flow is gonna make much of a difference anyway.
That’s not the Weber brand one (which is now sold out). That has an anti static coating to reduce that build. Not sure what brand that is but it doesn’t look like it works very well.
Airflow brand which I think may also be the same as the Ikape one. I don't think Weber has an anti static coating just a smoother anodizied aluminum. This one has some rougher areas. I'm getting the 3bomber brand one to try as well supposedly that one is smooth internally.
It’s static you need to deal with your static issues this is in particular high if you have a dry inner climate, you can reduce static caused by grinding coffee by RDT a few sprays as it rises the humidity within the grinding chamber. It’s not a miracle cure, but dos reduce it. Also washing them with mild detergent and rinse and dry well can in some cases reduce the issue.
Yeah I never liked doing RDT. Maybe I'll try it and washing the thing.
I have some 3bomber or whatever brand ones coming that hopefully have a smoother interior surface and work better. But I don't think theyll sit nicely on the portafilter arms like this one does.
Washed it and used it again today a few times, it's better than it was here in the video, but still retains some coffee, I predict it will go back to looking like this after a few more uses. I never remember to try doing RDT.
I wish I've seen this video a couple of weeks ago ...My Airflow is on the way 😢
It's fine but I think I prefer the 3bomber one which is also not perfect. It's probably fine to figure out if you like or hate the workflow and how shaking changes your coffee. The craig lyn shaker is probably the best.
@@BensCoffeeRants 3bomber was actually 30% less than the Airflow! I thought the later was bigger and looked higher quality. I guess I made the wrong choice 😔.
Weber/Lyn is just too expensive for just a shaker.
May I suggest to you to add Airflow to the subject of this vid or a hashtag to help others find your vid and help them make the right choice?
@@NANA-gy7yx sure good idea. Maybe you'll have a better experience let me know how yours is. I don't do RDT so some stickage may be from static but on this one My interior surface isn't completely smooth and that's likely causing more friction and stickage.
Hi! I'm looking to buy this exact shaker. Any news? Were you able to adapt or do you still find it bad? I noticed you prefer to add a funnel between your pf and it. Do you still feel you need it? Thanks!
For benefitting from the shaking distribution according to Lance's testing methodology anyway he dropped it from an greater height. I've been getting pretty good results but shots have not looked great I'm getting worse channeling using this than with WDT I think. And its messier. I think WDT is still needed the question is does it undo whatever shaking has done. My friend is also experimenting with that so we'll probably know shortly. I'm probably going to sell this one I have a few of the 3homber ones coming so I'll see if I like those better.
@@BensCoffeeRantswill you make a video about 3bomber? I’m lookin this shaker and want to know if its workflow is good…
@@rafaelrocha8046 Yeah sure, or ill just let you know how it is, once I get it and use it a bit! But I think workflow will always be worse using a dosing cup than grinding direct to portafilter (it's yet another accessory, taking up space, retaining coffee, needing to be cleaned etc). If you have a weber grinder where the tumbler is built in then it works better, or maybe it just seems like it because your kinda forced to use it :D
@@BensCoffeeRantsthanks for replying. I will wait your feedback.
@@rafaelrocha8046 3bomber's shaker also has retention issues ua-cam.com/video/tbsHZWxazDU/v-deo.html
Following. I hate the cup. I don’t have a Weber but the other high end cup. PITA.
My friend got the smaller / multipurpose sized Craig Lyn one and it's very nice. Seems to have less retention, only tested it briefly at his place but I think it's nicer (for a lot more $$).
I did notice a change in espresso with the shaking (not sure if tumbler is necessary but shaking might be effective, you could do it in a dosing cup etc so that should be easy for people to experiment with themselves). But I'm not sure I like the shaken / tumbler results, it smooths espresso shots out more and reduces acidity and I think may lower flavour clarity as well, so it's smooth and easy drinking but I find it more boring (maybe due to lower acidity).
@@BensCoffeeRants that’s the one I have. The retention sucks. I use a WDT tool to knock powder off the sides and lid.
@@sf2189 Really, not liking the Craig Lyn one either? Send it to me! :D If it's a few fine crumbs it's probably best to just ignore it. It's not going to affect your next coffee in tiny amounts, but I know, I sometimes obsess over stuff like that wanting it perfectly clean between shots.
I will say it retains less than the one in your video but not convinced the extra step makes a huge difference. I have the BH WDT tool and that does a great job breaking everything up.
@@sf2189 I got one too! Did yours have the same issue with it not rotating as freely as it should? I had to wait for them to ship a new ball bearing and basically completely disassemble the thing and ended up stripping a screw in the process (soft cheap screw, not a good fitting tool provided!) So not too happy with them.
U think it worth buying this shaker if I only use manual hand grinders? (I would have to transfer the grinded beans from one cup to another 😅) ☕
Just shake in the grinders cup
I wouldn't recommend making your hand grinding workflow even more complicated :D
I remember the 1zpresso k plus actually came with a blind shaker attachment but I probably just used it once!
@@7Miralas You'll still need something like to distribute in that case.
@@RegrinderAlert Yeah shaking and light wdt should be ok or tap and settle, people did stockfleth method (smoothing with their finger from multiple directions) for many years! Not the most hygienic way if you're making coffee for others though!
Where did you get that blind shaker?
Aliexpress.
A plain fitted dosing cup is so much easier!
Yeah definitely easier if the cup fits your grinders portafilter holder but transfering the coffee into the portafilter can leave the distribution less than optimal. I think you can still fix it with WDT though and perhaps shaking it in the cup (earlier) provides benefit still. I'll have to do some testing.
Same experience here. I thought its my grinder fault
Static may be partly to blame, but also the rougher surface if you don't have a nice (usually expensive) anodized aluminum coating, the shape of it is also a factor, I think the design of this one could be better in that regard as well.