Відео

@NSWvet83 I've since upgraded but I did like the grinder. It was one of the few decent espresso options back in the day but now we have way more choice! One thing it did really well is that it's comparatively quiet vs most other grinders. I realized after getting a DF64 the Specialita was lacking in flavour clarity it did give good body thought which I only realized and started missing after it was gone. It's more like what people would think conical burr grinders are supposed to be like (but often conical are not fitting the same profile).

Juat spoke with them. These are the made for continuous use. The motor gets hot quickly and then the heat promotes the clumping and eventual jams. They said their w 65 and 75 lines are good for a small coffee shop. $999 - $1400

@NSWvet83 uh yeah definitely not meant for commercial or continuous use. ATOM 75 is the minimum id go for a cafe. They got a grind by weight option now I believe. Haven't been paying too much attention to Eurekas stuff after trying the Oro SD. I think they've been too slow to innovate and been playing catch up with the Chinese single dose grinder market.

@JosetteNorris the dosing cup? I think it was a 51mm but you should be able to find it or similar ones in 53mm. I probably got mine from aliexpres you can find people selling them on Amazon as well.

@ yes I meant dosing cup! So a 53mm dosing cup still fits on the lagom P64 even though it’s meant for 58mm dosing cup?

​@JosetteNorris nope, what I'm showing here is it is a smaller cup inside a 58mm cup (which still doesn't fit but I got a 3d printed 58mm portafilter fork adaptor on the 58mm cup) someone could also just design a 3d print adaptor for the smaller cup. What I'm using now is a smaller type blind shaker that works with 49/53 or 58mm baskets, from Craig Lyn brand and it works nicely on the p64 portafilter forks. I do also have silicone socks from DF series grinders on my forks which adds some padding and makes them grippier which I like.

Hard to say I never did alignment with shims on the ode or P64. When I was comparing them with the same burrs (I don't have 2 sets anymore) I realized after that I was getting more traditional roastiness out of the Ode but that seemed to improve with doing a hot start and attempting to slow feed the ode. The problem is you can't go too slow or it thinks it's done grinding and turns off on its own (feature of the ode that can't be disabled it seems). It's not bad for me but my friend complains his always turns off on him before its done. With ssp MP burrs I do believe rpm makes a difference, so the P64 has an advantage but it's a big price difference, and the ODE gen2 is pretty good! You're not supposed to do espresso with the Ode but I found with the right burrs it can do it. I got the original p64 burrs in the ode right now. Didn't even seem to struggle grinding for espresso. But it does sound like burrs or something is loose and rattling around in the ode! That's just how they are i think 😮 the sound isn't bad or loud but doesn't inspire confidence in the grinder.

@@BensCoffeeRants thanks!

Your pressure Guage is actually showing 1.5 bars? It should be hot still if it has the same issue, it's heating up just blocked, although higher volume of steam would probably burn you faster. I didn't test it by putting my finger under it so can't say for sure!

I haven't tried either of those (I do have a Spirit Knockoff though) but no reason why they wouldn't fit in the Weber Buck. It's got a non tapered straight bottom and fits the 28g Weber basket so I think it's going to fit pretty much anything designed for 58mm machines!

@@JB12132 oh darn, never had that happen to me but I've only taken it apart a few times to switch the base. Why take it apart?

I actually got mine with the extension chamber and never even bothered trying without it, I believe it should roast better since you get more bean movement due to the more narrow (but taller) flow of air, but especially would be better if you're already overloading the roaster trying to get more out of a single roast.

@@lexlarkin I think there was a website that originally made them called single dose mods or something like that, but now if you search for ode bellows it seems like there are a number of options, I would choose whichever is closest or has cheapest shipping. I just got it with my used Ode gen1 but I sold it along with the bellows I believe. I don't think the Gen 2 needed it as much. So I wouldn't bother if you have a Gen 2 unless you happen to notice retention.

@ Thank you sir, much appreciated!

@@paul--b I sold my espresso machine and didn't have one I could use with it so figured I'll get something later that's good and maybe cheaper. Now Normcore has a lay flat portafilter for example. But I do have the Hummingbird Canal coming which was also a bit pricey ordering in Canada. I also figured the lighter weight lower thermal msss portafilter may be an advantage for me since i never really preheat my portafilters.

@@BensCoffeeRants I’m of the opinion that thermal mass isn’t much of an issue at all on bottomless portafilters as there isn’t much to them, 5-10 mins is probably plenty for them not to be pulling heat out of the grouphead.

What espresso machines are on your wishlist?

@@7Miralas I bought an old beat up Breville dual boiler when I sold the synchronika and thought it would be a down grade but was pleasantly surprised. Really liked that machine but selenoid was failing and one of screws to hold it down was rusted out apparently they used a weird size screw I left it with a friend for repairing and have been using my backup / extra machine the La Pavoni Europiccola but also doing a lot of v60 pourovers lately. I have a Meticulous coming eventually but a more reliable / updated Breville dual boiler or something like a 58mm Bambino with adjustable temperature would be perfect.

@@paul--b yeah the webers will bend a bit after just a few uses! I don't think it's anything that will cause any issues but kinda funny they market that as a feature and advantage to their baskets! The Normcore knockoff of the Wafo Spirit bent so much that the pucks were concave and convex shaped. That was the worst.

@guillaumegirod8043 I already have done that. I got the Zerno Z1 after having my P64 with the same Ssp MP burrs for a while. Ended up reselling the Zerno and keeping the P64. The way Lance Hendrick and some other people were hyping up the Zerno I thought it was going to be so much better but it was basically the same. I didn't find the medium speed auger which was the only one available at the time really changed anything nor the blind burrs. P64 I thought was more versatile and easier to change burrs on, had a better experience with workflow and being a more finished product with option-o. They were still working on improving Zerno Z1 with the chute having a lot of retention it bothered me, and them asking for another 25 usd to ship a 'free' solution bothered me, which was a 3d printed chute insert. The ionizer also didn't do anything. Bad positioning I think they since got rid of it. They have fixed the chute now with an updated design and The new super slow feed auger seems like it would be a good idea for those wanting maximum flavor clarity and consistency maybe at the expense of grind speed. I slow feed the p64 and it is getting a bit tiring sometimes so an auto slow feeder is tempting but people are coming out with devices for that now. Also didn't like the loud brushed motor sound on zerno but it was actually a bit more quiet when grinding than p64. I say p64 is more versatile because you got variable rpm and a portafilter fork which I actually don't really use to grind direct to portafilter anymore but some people may still want that without having to pay more for a portafilter holder stand on the Zerno which wasn't even available back when I had mine.

Other one is by the Happy Tamper people. It's anodized aluminum and a bit more expensive. The peoples 3d printed design is good too and cheap or basically free.

@@CarattiniGarage yep I know but I also didn't want to lose it.

@@teslatalk42069 A few reasons. I wanted to find the perfect grinder for me. I wasn't sure which I like best and the best way to test is side by side. I did have a lot more grinders I've tried and resold because they were redundant or I had something I enjoyed more. I've gone through about 20 or 30 coffee grinders maybe in the last 4 years. Some I got a decent deal on and wanted to try but never really intended to keep but wanted a benchmark for what a great grinder is capable of. The Monolith and Weber Key fell into that category due to their high prices , if the price is that high I expect workflow to be great and grinder to sound nice. The Lagom P64 and Niche Zero are kinda benchmarks in those areas. All the gear I had back in this video is pretty much all gone now including the espresso machine. I sold the Silver p64 but regretted it and ended up getting another P64 the next month. Originally was trying to narrow it down to one or two grinders but I think 3 is probably the minimum for me. Currently I have 4 electric grinders and 4 hand grinders. Some grinders or burrs are better suited for light roast others are better suited for medium or darker roasts or decaf etc

Thanks, glad you enjoyed it / found it helpful! I'd think it would be fairly close, RPM can go lower and I find that does make a difference on the P64 with SSP MP burrs specifically. Unfortunately I sold my Ode with SSP MP Burrs because I found a deal on a ODE Gen2 (which turned out to be broken, but I fixed it so it worked out) so now I'm stuck with the Gen2 burrs which I don't use much since I have better burrs / grinders for pourover. They're alright but not as nice as SSP MP burrs or the ZP6. I'm likely going to get the SSP unimodal BREW burrs for the ODE and compare that with the P64 with SSP MP (which Is unimodal v2 basically). Sold the Zerno Z1 as well. Still got the DF83, I used the stock Italmill burrs and thought they were very conical burr like at first, lots of body lots of blending of the flavours but very nice smooth and sweet generally so I didn't mind it. Lots of fines for filter coffee / pourover but still tasted nice to me. HOWEVER, it changed :D I took out the declumper, and it reduced retention dramatically so the bellows is basically not needed, flow of coffee through the grinder is less obstructed which improved flavour clarity, reducing the fines and also reducing the body, also as burrs got more seasoned I think it went a little more in that direction, higher clarity, lower body especially with slow feeding which doesn't need to be so slow because DF83 is FAST grinding. It changed a lot for me which was surprising. (To Be Continued)

For the DF83 I DID actually try other burrs in it, I got the Last two burrs that look kinda like SSP MP from a company called BOYT in the US. I thought there'd be a high demand for cheaper than SSP 83mm burrs, but maybe not now that there's the affordable DLC burrs (Haven't tried those). I really liked the BOYTs initially, I thought they were higher clarity and slightly more punchy, and might have been better for pourover although never really tried too much pourover with the italmills. But lately, I don't know if it's my water, or brewing I noticed a trend with those burrs and thought it was turning out too acidic lately so I switched back to the Itallmills for now and have been enjoying them again. I missed the Conical-like DF83 I had initially so got another of my very first grinder a Baratza Vario and that has been doing nice sweet espresso with the ceramic burrs or steel burrs (although it doesn't seem to go fine enough with the steel ones shots run a bit fast but still turns out nice). I think I've had like 20+ grinders in the last 3-4 years :D

@@BensCoffeeRants DF83 is an excellent grinder, maybe too espresso-leaning, but very classic and tasty. I haven't tried that many grinders but I think it is one of the best milky beverages that I ever taste. I guess Itamill burr is a little bit underrated by most of youtube coffee enthusiasts, but I'm curious about SSP Cast or HU, to improve clarity and still enjoy some of body and round profile. Im Definitely going to try it without declumper and slow feed and I will tell you my findings, maybe is the answer for me to not upgrade. I decided to have a separate brew grinder so I started with ode+ssp. you've already solved my doubts about future upgrades, between highend 64mm vs bigger burrs like timemore 078 or df83v, i read about 83 dlc brew burrs and it seems to be being very clean but for some people is too flat/little boring cup. Again, thank you so much.

@@DanieICalder0n I didn't like the SSP Cast (lab sweet style burrs) in 64mm (v2) but I hear in 80, 83, and 98mm they're a lot better! I haven't tried them in those sizes, I'm hesitant to spend so much on a 83mm burr I might hate lol I went back to the DF83 Italmill burrs and been liking them for espresso. After seasoning and removing the declumper it's pretty decent clarity (slow feeding also helps). I think you'll be fine with that. The Ode with SSP Unimodal burrs are great for pour over, but also for best clarity start the grinder and slowly pour the coffee beans in! Zp6 hand grinder is kind of similar to that combo.

It's a bit thick for me, should work fine I think, but 0.35 is probably my ideal needle size. This one is a bit short for using with a deeper basket and higher funnel, never really ran into issues with it not being long enough but it seemed close to the limit sometimes! I do have a ridiculously deep 28g Weber basket I never actually used with it that might be too deep especially with the high option-O funnel ontop of the basket!

I'm not very consistent in general since I'm always trying dif coffees and doing things differently each time but normally I don't tamp that many times this was just to demonstrate how its lifting itself up on an angle. Lance Hendrick found tamping twice was most consistent and that's what I was doing before he mentioned that just because it tends to reduce the coffee stuck to the base of the tamper that way.

@@felixscholz20 subsequent tamping doesn't really affect much because the coffee is already compressed. Doing it twice probably just helps if you didn't compress it completely the first time. But shouldn't make a huge difference.

I don't understand.

@@BensCoffeeRants well it looks like u have so many nice tools for coffee but i want to give u heads up if u cleaning u group head u also need to flush out boiler every 3 months to prevent black scale build up in side boiler to do that u need a solution running water for 2 hours about

@@cybergift56 I've never heard of that before , if you use good water you shouldn't have to do that. I know a lot of people like to flush out the steam boiler if you're not using the water spout and just using steam then you get gross water since you're essentially distilling the water out of the steam wand leaving everything else in the boiler. But you can do that but just using a little bit of water everyday or some every week which introduces fresh water into the steam boiler.

@@NederlandGuy thanks for sharing your tip. I don't think that's typical for these machines but on mine the steam wand got hot anyway (maybe not as quickly as non insulated but still gets too hot) so maybe removing the insulation would improve steam performance. I was happy with my steam performance with it for my usually small amounts of milk though. I don't have the machine anymore.

I think there are actually even more quiet rotary pump machines.

Yes I agree I don't think faster flowing necessarily means it's better. I found the cafec dark t83 papers people recommend because they're pretty quick gave an empty or hollow result sometimes (sometimes they were good though). Sorry I was meaning to upload more videos with experiments but didnt think many people cared to see lol. Originally I had liked the Hario tabbed filters when just on their own but when comparing to others they had lost the most! So even with the less good filters you can get good results you will enjoy. My favorites or the ones that seemed to lose or tie the least vs others seemed to be the Kinto filters and then the Origami filters (by cafec) both of them have cotton fibre blended in them so I think I prefer some cotton in there! I'm looking for something that gives me great results easy with a variety of coffees and these seem to work that way.

@@BensCoffeeRants I bought the kinto filters and have been trying them out for the past couple days. Really postive first impressioon. The filters are thick and consistent which is what I am looking for. Very nice clean cups with decent body and good acidity (not sourness that usually comes with fast filters). This is good combination balancing out the high clarity from 102 mizens!

​@@majs2009 yep they're pretty much all I've been using lately and with good coffee they rarely disappoint.

I was comparing a lot when I had the Zerno Z1 and P64 with same SSP MP burrs in them both (except blind burrs in the Z1). Workflow because of the retention in the chute on the Zerno i preferred the p64. But now with the updated chute they fixed that on the Zerno. I think after changing the burrs the p64 retained better alignment and may have tasted better sometimes. But before that they seemed identical for pour over and similar for espresso sometimes p64 would do better other times zerno would do better which was probably mostly just due to one being dialed in better than the other. Sold the Zerno Z1 for a slight profit and not planning on selling the P64. Mainly didn't like the motor noise and the fact they wanted to charge me 25 usd to ship their 'free' 3d printed chute insert to fix the retention issue. But now they come with a real updated lower retention chute. Oh and the ionizer didn't do anything on the Zerno I think they've since gotten rid of it now.

@@BensCoffeeRants thanks for the comment! the P64 really looking like a tiny bit better option. thanks and enjoy your coffee!

Thank you. Yeah, some people worry the concussive force of the force tamper may disturb the coffee bed. I found it worked well for me but you do have to secure it to make sure it stays flat / level as you push down it tends to want to lean to a side if not careful. Happy tampers design is good but coffee gets under the tamper base like many other designs do as well. I also had the Normal dose one and I didn't love the design it tended to push you back and uses a tiny button so it's not comfortable and seemed to always raise itself up leaning in one specific direction which meant it's likely tamping in that opposite direction rather than straight down.

It's the 078s (espresso focused burrs and more granular adjustment dial for dialing in espresso) vs the 078 (oriented for pour overs). There's pro's and cons. For the price the 078 or 078s gives you MUCH larger burrs quieter motor and some RPM control. 078s Popcorns at higher RPM but there's hopper mods available to fix that. Zerno Z1 had no popcorning but mine had retention in the chute which I think Zerno has now addressed / fixed. 078s Also has some chute retention for espresso but has a knocker for that. Lots of good burr options in 64mm for the Zerno Z1 and similar grinders, right now there's just the 078s stock burr but SSP should come out with some options and for pourovers I hear good things about the 078 burrs. I think the 078s burrs are mostly seasoned and the profile seems to be a nice compromise between traditional lower clarity higher body and high clarity higher acidity. Good smooth coffees with a little blending of flavours but not enough to feel like I'm missing out that much on flavour clarity. With Zerno I had the SSP MP burrs and original moonshine treated Mizen Omni burrs in there both those were pretty high clarity and sharper and less forgiving, but with the Updated Mizen omni burrs maybe they'd be a closer match. They're like cast / lab sweet burrs and they updated them to have more body / sweetness at the expense of a little clarity but modifying the finish on them.

@@BensCoffeeRants thank you for the response. I have been thinking about getting the Zerno lately but I’m very hesitant because of the sound of the electric motor which I despise. Unfortunately I had cancelled my 078s from the initial kickstarter as I had doubts about it but seems I had made the wrong choice. 🥲

@@utiuandy99 Sculptor is alright but don't beat yourself up about not getting it for the early bird pricing (You can still get one if you wanted). But DF83v and DF64 gen2 are great budget options too and Gevi Grindmaster is another option a lot of people don't seem to know of. Too many grinder choices these days it seems lol

@@BensCoffeeRants yes there are a ton of them. I currently have a Ceado E37S with some 3D printed mods for a slight tilt and a single dose antipopcorning funnel but I had such a hard time with the alignment of the top burr carrier. It was sooo bad. I have not tried the stock burrs as I got SSP SWEET LAB burrs right away and while I sometimes wonder what the stock burrs are like I have no intention of doing the alignment again for it and maybe another time for the SSP burrs if the shims fall out. I had gotten both at nice price but if I were to do it again I would have gotten something else for sure. Right now there are some Honne by Hedone grinders for sale with a very appealing price but I have 2 DF64 which I have been trying to sell for some time and I think I should not buy anything else before I get rid of them. Unfortunately I am very curious by nature and I always wonder what other grinders are like. Anyway thank you for the reply.

I still have the p64 and sold the Zerno Z1 I didn't feel it was better than the p64 despite the hype and claims from Lance and people. If you're in the US Zerno might be a decent amount cheaper, but if in Canada, you might as well spend a bit more and get the P64. My v2 didn't seem like it was really finished just yet. They're still improving the Zerno.

@@BensCoffeeRants Thank you so much for your reply. I joined the Zerno waiting list 2 weeks ago but you are right - something about the Zerno that still looks like a prototype. it's louder than the P64 too. What do you think they should improve?

​@@goldfish8196mine had retention issues with the chute so that bugged me that the solution was a 3d printed insert and that they wanted another 25 usd to ship me the part 'free' part. Now it comes with some sort of insert or an improved chute. The ionizer didn't work on mine. But it's a good grinder just didn't love it as much as the p64 I had high expectations due to all the stupid hype. I got an Ode too around the same time used cheap and beaten up and was impressed with that due to low expectations and price! I'd take the Zerno over the 078s, it's a better designed grinder and higher quality as expected but also more money for smaller burrs. Not sure that really matters much though.

@@BensCoffeeRants I'm having a tough time deciding between the P64 and the Zerno. I have a Breville dual boiler and an old DF64. I really enjoy watching your videos. And I really appreciate your camaraderie.

@@goldfish8196 Sorry I haven't done much videos lately, I do have a lot of stuff with the Zerno but editing it down will be a mess and a lot of it was to do with being annoyed by the retention in the chute which they're fixing so now it's all moot (aka pointless) :D I think the question is what's with the DF64 that you want to improve. BDB is a great machine, just maybe not the most reliable long term. I think I need a new solenoid on mine, maybe ill put together a video when for that when I change it up.

The declumper was probably the main source of problems really, that's likely the thing causing the issue with the clogging and not being able to successfully use the bellows. Retention wasn't even bad so I was confused how a little coffee can form such a tight seal that air can't pass through.

@@BensCoffeeRants I'm very happy with the results, to be honest. Very consistent. 👍

Don't rattle it then :D I had the same annoyance with my Force Tamper actually. If you want something similar to this that doesn't rattle the Happy Tamper people make the Wise Distribution Tool. Unfortunately it's more expensive. www.quandocoffeegear.com/shop/wise-distribution-tool

@@BensCoffeeRants I like the design of the WDT from Happy Tamper but with base + shipping is 100$. Kind of funny.

@@goldfish8196 yeah its pricey especially shipped to Canada. I got mine when ordering the happy tamper, back before the flick existed.

I haven't tried the latest v3 of the ssp cast burrs but I really didnt like the v2 so won't try v3 unless someone wants to send / lend me some. I also haven't tried the updated non moonshine coated sandblasted Mizen burrs. I think either would be a good option for you. I haven't tried the df64v espresso burrs either but they do look similar to ssp HU which are decent clarity. You should try doing a slow feed with that grinder and it might just give you what you're looking for without having to spend more money.

Mine came off almost immediately after accidentally rubbing against it, it wasn't actually pressed on right and broke a fraction off. It seems the first batches were really rushed and had poor quality control. I returned this one.

Yeah I like my p64 better. If you're looking for something with an opposing profile to the niche zero, the p64 with ssp Mp burrs would be a good combo with the Niche if you want higher clarity for good medium or lighter roasts.

@@BensCoffeeRants Thank You

SSP MP burrs are pretty slow to grind also it's running at lower RPM.

I liked SSP HU but they're probably too similar to other cheaper burrs like the original stock p64 burrs which I enjoyed or the new df64 gen2 burrs which look similar. I didn't like the ssp cast burrs. Didn't think they had any flavour clarity and didn't feel like seasoning them with like 15lbs of coffee to maybe get some clarity. I tried v2 I think they have v3 now which seems like they took some design hints from options Os mizen omni burrs here!

I only had a few shots from a MC4 I think, never had a conical Monolith, just the Titan Flat with 75mm shuriken LM burrs. My friend a few people I've talked to seem to say the Kafatek Conicals are better, they're supposed to be a good conical profile high texture shots, with decent flavour clarity. I found the Weber Key and HG-2 more flat like in a way, pretty high clarity but not much body usually although I did sometimes notice a silkiness that I never got from flat burrs. VS the SSP MP burrs, the Weber Key should be more forgiving, smoother usually, silkier body, but not quite as high flavour clarity. Both are very good all round multi-purpose burrs!